5 Reasons Why DETERMINATE TOMATOES Are BETTER Than Indeterminate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- Determinate tomatoes are often overlooked by gardeners, and it's time to change the culture because they are better performers than indeterminate tomatoes! In this video, we discuss 5 reasons why determinate tomatoes are BETTER than indeterminate tomatoes!
When most gardeners think of a tomato plant, they think of the classic indeterminate tomato vine that requires vertical staking or trellising and grows throughout the summer. Determinate tomatoes are different. Most grow into bushes no taller than 30-48 inches and produce huge yields of tomatoes that ripen over a short period of time. Growing these small, compact, heavy yielding plants make tomato growing SO MUCH EASIER and more fruitful.
I also show you how to prune and maintain determinate tomatoes, which is MUCH times easier than managing a tomato vine! As an added bonus, we discuss dwarf tomatoes, which provide the flavor, quality and size of heirloom tomatoes in a compact plant.
TABLE OF CONTENTS
0:00 Determinate Tomatoes VS Indeterminate Tomatoes
1:53 Reason #1
3:51 Reason #2
5:35 Reason #3
7:16 Reason #4
8:51 Reason #5
10:08 How To Prune Determinate Tomatoes
12:49 Dwarf Tomato Project Tomato Varieties
14:45 Adventures With Dale
If you have any questions about growing tomatoes, determinate vs indeterminate tomato plants, pruning tomatoes, any of the things I am growing in my vegetable garden, are looking for any garden tips and tricks, or have questions about gardening and organic gardening in general, please ask in the Comments below!
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![My MOST PRODUCTIVE TOMATO Varieties! [And 4 Varieties To Avoid]](/img/n.gif)
If you found this video helpful, please "Like" and share to help increase its reach! Thanks for watching 😃TIMESTAMPS for convenience:
0:00 Determinate Tomatoes VS Indeterminate Tomatoes
1:53 Reason #1
3:51 Reason #2
5:35 Reason #3
7:16 Reason #4
8:51 Reason #5
10:08 How To Prune Determinate Tomatoes
12:49 Dwarf Tomato Project Tomato Varieties
14:45 Adventures With Dale
Very helpful thanks
I agree, because of our southern brutal sun and heat.
What do you spray your tomatoes with?
I did the exact opposite and started growing indeterminate because overall they have the best varieties for flavor. The main reason is I’d rather have a longer harvest period than having them all ripen together in a short time. I eat mine fresh. If your canning the determinates are the way to go.
I understand that logic, and that's why I've always grown indeterminates my entire life and no determinates at all. However, my advice is to grow determinates as your backbone, core crop and grow a few indeterminate varieties on the side for interesting variety, not to abandon indeterminates altogether.
In many climates like mine, indeterminates do not survive the entire season. In areas with persistent heat and humidity, which is roughly 40% of the landmass of the country, indeterminates tend to fail come the heat of the summer. Growing indeterminates in these regions will give you poor yields. Substituting determinates can dramatically increase your harvest, because determinates ripen more quickly and will give you big yields before the severe humidity, disease and pest pressure sets in.
You can still have a long harvest period growing determinates, because you can do multiple plantings of determinates. Determinate tomatoes are excellent for succession planting. Indeterminates are not because they take too long to ripen their crop. Swapping indeterminates out for waves of determinates will increase your food yields by a lot.
No matter what you decide to do, one thing is not debatable: you will get more tomatoes growing determinates than indeterminates. You can grow a lot more determinates in the same space and they fruit heavier and more quickly. I recommend growing both, but favoring determinates for yields with a few indeterminates for fun.
@@TheMillennialGardener I live in Texas and we get very hot. I can pull mine though our Texas heat all the way to a heavy frost. Spidermites take out everyone else's around here usually during the dry summers. My Kelthane and heavy watering saves mine. I just plant more plants if I need more and cherry indeterminates for my early tomatoes. Hard to beat black cherry and sungold for Cherry's.
I like indeterminate. More tomatos over a long lime and bigger and more flavor. Hands down.
I prefer indeterminate to can. I do a lot of sauce and canned tomatoes. The paste tomatoes, Roma types are best for this and that is indeterminate. I don't want to be bombarded in the middle of the summer trying to deal with it. I like making a couple of batches at a time, cooking some fresh and then the variety of a great slicer for tomato sandwiches or just sliced tomato with some salt and mayo! I do grow some determinate also but the bulk is indeterminate. Can't beat the cherry tomatoes either. This year I also started some real dwarfs, a yellow tumbling Tom and a red variety I am growing in pots.
@@colliecoform4854 maybe I’m reading your comment wrong, but Roma’s are a determinate tomato.
I have always grown a mix of both. I like determinates for canning because you usually get flushes of tomatoes ripping at roughly the same time. I like the indeterminate for fresh eating and I will usually mix them in with the determinates when I can.
They’re great for 5 gallon buckets you can shade them and get them out of the rain really easy. Great for the patio gardener like me 😂
I've asked this question at nurseries for years. All I ever got for an answer was basically, one's tall, one's short. Thank you for a proper and easily understood explanation. I can't promise I will not grow indeterminate ever again, but I intend to stick mostly to determinate this year.
You should do a video on your favorite determinate varieties. I'm convinced to grow more determinates now!
I'm just starting to get into determinates, so I haven't explored many of the varieties yet. However, one variety I can recommend hands-down is Siletz. It is incredible: amazing flavor, very early, handles nighttime tips into the upper 30's without issue, great size. It's one of my favorite tomatoes and tastes better than most indeterminates.
@@TheMillennialGardener I’ll definitely see if I can find some seeds!
@@garden_geek
Also look into "Celebrity" as they tend to give good reliable production and they taste great.
Look into Bella Rosa and Red Snapper. They both do fantastic down here in Ga. Super high production and very good taste. Also, Tachi for a Roma variety.
@@TheMillennialGardener That's cool, is it really productive? I grew a brandywine OTV this year and the production has been way low
I will also add, even after all the upkeep on the indeterminates to keep them somewhat healthy, the tomatoes they produce at the end of the season are not as good flavor wise nor as big as they are earlier in the season. After growing determinates this year they will make up the bulk of my tomatoes. Im more than happy with the results.
This is absolutely true. Indeterminate tomatoes go into decline rapidly. Even if you are able to keep the vines alive, the fruit degrades in quality as the vines age. The exception: cherry tomatoes. Cherry tomatoes are excellent on indeterminate vines, and for long-summer climates like mine, it makes less sense to grow a determinate cherry type. However, the beefsteak indeterminates suffer immensely. The real advantage to indeterminates is selection. Determinates outproduce them by a wide margin.
Disease resistance will be why I grow more determinant tomatoes this year. Last year was horrible for disease and I will be changing how I grow tomatoes this year. Thanks for this! I’m in Raleigh zone 7b & we share all the bad stuff in the garden 😩
The wonderful thing about determinate tomatoes is by the time disease tends to get them, they're already in the process of ripening their fruits. Meanwhile, the indeterminates are just getting started, lazily ripening 1 or 2 tomatoes at a time while the plants start dying. Determinates have a much quicker lifecycle, so they're a "secret weapon" of sorts to beat the disease to your harvest.
Katherine, I’m also 7B in South Carolina and had a dismal crop last year. Can you please share if you had better luck with determinate and what varieties you grew? Thanks!
Try grafting your favorite but less Harty tomatoes onto a much more Harty type stem. This cures most issues
I'm growing both right now. I do the determinates because of the storage of the harvest. So we can have the results all through winter. The indeterminates I'm growing is for the fun and the continued long-term harvest over the length of the summer. For instance, last year I had a bowl of cherry tomatoes with breakfast every day. By the end of the summer I was a little sick of it, but they were fantastic. So the bulk of my growing is determinates, the indeterminates are for the fun stuff.
I was just asking myself this question today because I have a small space and I’m having such a difficult time staking these heavy vines up! I’m going to have to grow determinant next year!
Same here. As I'm getting older I try to stay off ladders as much as possible. I can imagine falling off the ladder and breaking a hip. Game over.
Excellent video! I wholeheartedly agree! One more reason to grow determinate tomatoes: the low maintenance means that if you're watering with a timer you can spend a week or two at the lake in the summer and not stress out about how your tomato plants are doing.
Here are some great determinates to try:
Supremo Roma: This is my top tomato. The plants are mid-sized and produce a ton of beautiful tomatoes that are great for both slicing and salsa.
Mountain Merit: This is a large tomato plant so it takes up a lot of garden space, but it also has excellent disease resistance. The incredible production makes up for the used up garden space as it produces a huge amount of big tasty tomatoes.
Tasti-Lee: The plants are not too big and produce a beautiful tomato with a unique sensational taste. The shelf life of these tomatoes are excellent as well. Definitely worth a try.
Beefsteak bush: Produces excellent beefsteak tomatoes without the maintenance required for a vine beefsteak.
Early girl bush: This is an excellent tomato for beginners as it's easy to grow and produces a nice crop of tasty tomatoes. The most underrated tomato in my opinion.
Thank you! I had really good luck with Siletz as an early tomato with exceptional flavor, and Bella Rosa as a mid-season beefsteak that's very similar to Celebrity. This year, I am going to try Margherita VF Hybrid as a plum tomato for sauce as an alternative to San Marzano, which is kind of a pain to grow as an indeterminate and gives fruit that's smaller than I'd prefer.
Thx. I'm always needing to know which taste best.
I lived and worked at an organic produce farm in Northeast NY for over 8 years and we had a mix of about 80% determinate and 20% indeterminate tomatoes. Indeterminates were all out in the field with just a few determinates, the rest of those were in the greenhouses. Had Grape tomatoes determinates out of the greenhouse in early April.
Ever since I started growing (outside) tomatoes the majority of plants have been determinate : most of the determinates are early producers, even in colder climates, so they’re a great way to have tomatoes on my plate in late June, early July. Combined with a couple of indeterminates and cherry tomatoes is the way to spread the harvest over a longer period.
I've grown both types, and I have found that the indeterminates overall have a much better flavor than the determinates do. The determinates that I have grown seem to have a more bland flavor.
This is the second season that I will be growing both.
I love making different sauces, so the more the merrier.
And I guess if you stagger the planting time of your determinates, you can still harvest tomatoes over a long period of time. That was always my reason for planting indeterminates.
Precisely! No matter how you slice it, determinate tomatoes make more tomatoes than indeterminates. They fruit faster, they require less space and you can rotate them more quickly. Indeterminates are like a dripping faucet, but determinates are like a deluge of food.
I tried and experiment this year. While I was starting my tomatoes in the basement I grew a couple of suckers that I put in with the older plant. The idea being that when the bigger plant is done there will already be a replacement.
Sounds like a plan . I'm going to do just that. Stager grow determinate tomatoes
@@silverfoxes65 thats a cool idea. I tried it 4 years ago with success and last year with no success. Last year i got greedy and choose to large of a cutting to propagate and they wilted to failure
@@silverfoxes65 When pruning I cut medium sized suckers and shove them right in the ground where I find extra space. Works pretty good for me.
Everyone is different. Here are the 5 reasons that I prefer indies, and some are actually the same as yours. 1) I don't eat a ton of tomatoes or can them, so I prefer a more spaced out yield. 2) I take cuttings around Halloween for clones. Determinates don't clone as well. 3) My cuttings are right now, producing fruit indoors. When they go out in March, they will be mature, fruiting plants. You can't do that with determinates. 4) I start my seeds the week between Christmas and New Years, so I have bigger plants that I trim the lower branches off of to plant sideways. Doesn't work so well with short determinates. 5) I don't mind them taking up space, and I only grow varieties that are local to SoFla, so I don't have issues with rot or pests here.
You have great reasons for your side, and I think I do as well. That's when you just have to decide what works best in your own situation. BTW, I'm over in Charlotte, so hello fellow Tarheeler (state, not school)!
Great video! Thanks for sharing! I have 60 indeterminate (30 varities), but one variety I am growing one determinate variety, 16 of them. I also learned that determinate tomatoes are great for canning, and i agree, they are so much easier to grow, in terms of preparing a bed, no time consuming pruning, more productive when people have a short growing season, and for every reason you gave. FYI: I’m growing Fiachette (determinate) tomato. It does have a great history; once prized more than the San Marzano, but due to low productivity compared to hybrids, it fell out of favor. Yes, even in Italy where flavor is king, productivity matters, too.
Interesting. I've grown San Marzano and honestly, I didn't like them much. I've never heard of Fiachette, but I would like to grow some paste-types. With all those indeterminates, I think finding some more determinates that suit your needs would be worth it! I've had plenty of indeterminates lacking flavor and many determinates that were flavor bombs, so there are definitely some delicious determinates out there.
I grew all indeterminates last year and had a Celebrity determinate in the mix; it was very productive and maintenance free. Harvested a lot of tomatoes from that plant. Since I am in California, it pretty much fruit all season long.
If I were in your climate, I'd be growing determinates in a little low tunnel all winter long. After growing determinates and indeterminates side by side, you realize how much time, effort and labor you spend tying, spraying, pruning and nursing indeterminates for a couple tomatoes a day. Then, you look down and see your determinates pumping out tomatoes like crazy and you did nothing but tie it to a stake 6 weeks ago and ignored it since then.
@@TheMillennialGardener Yea I will definitely grow tomatoes in fall and through winter this year after having to buy some expensive tomatoes in store last winter!
Yep, and the Celebrity tastes soooooo good, too.
I can appreciate that there are so many variables involved such as...
~ What does your season look like? Is it a long season? Is it a short season?
~ Why are you growing the tomatoes? Fresh/Slicer? Canning?
~ Are you going to save seeds and want true seeds? If you want true seeds, then only indeterminate will give you that. If you like the adventure of seeing what comes out from seed saving determinates, then go for it!! :)
The beauty of this is there is no wrong or right. I'm doing more determinate tomatoes this spring and am so excited!! I can only find two types that are good for my area and I'm going to grow a bunch of them! I should get a lot of tomatoes on the front end for canning, etc. Then my indeterminates will fill in the gaps later on. And I love your suggestion for succession planting the determinate tomatoes! I have a very long growing season and that would work for us. (One year I was getting tomatoes on Christmas day!!)
After 40 plus years in the garden ,im growing determinates for the first time this year. Those guys over at Hoss Tools convinced me to try them. And so far Ive come to the same conclusions as you. As long as the taste is there,im a convert. Id love to see a list of the varieties you're growing.
The same thing happened with me. I've only grown indeterminates. I started experimenting with determinates 2 seasons ago, and Hoss Tools convinced me to try more. I'm growing Bella Rosa because of them. Their climate is very similar to mine, and indeterminates get decimated where I live. Growing determinates saves me so much time and energy. As gardeners, we need to drop our biases and try new things. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of determinate varieties out there, so there will certainly be amazing ones that perform well in our climate. Siletz is one of my favorite all-time tomatoes. Next year, I'm going to try Marglobe and Rutgers, because everyone raves about them. Thanks for watching my video!
@@TheMillennialGardener Im in middle Tn so my climate is similar. Im growing Bella Rosa also, and so far they look great. I also have Marglobe and Rutgers. I will try that Siletz next year. I hope to see you do a taste test and hear your thoughts on your tomato varieties,as you will be harvesting a few weeks ahead of me.
Excellent advice, as usual. I'm so glad you enlightened me about the pluses of growing determinate tomatoes. I almost made a huge mistake by putting in a bunch of cherry tomatoes. Now, I'll put in one or two and the rest will be determinate. Thanks so much... Love your channel!
That’s pretty much how I’ve done it. Mostly determinates, with the occasional indeterminate that will extend towards the end of the season. I typically let these indeterminate kind of run rampant and they’ll be making tomatoes right up into the cold months.
My two favorites? “Marglobe” an heirloom determinate, and “Rutgers” an heirloom indeterminate derived from... the Marglobe.
A very nice teaching moment you have offered us. Thank you
David
I need to try Marglobe. I keep hearing how good it is, and I need more interesting determinates. I believe there is a determinate version of Rutgers, as well. I've never grown that and since I'm from New Jersey, I'm probably obligated! Thanks for watching.
@@TheMillennialGardener we raised determinant field tomatoes in the 1950’s for the local canning factory in mid Ohio.
You can top indeterminate and force them to focus on production. If you'll be canning tomatoes as a cooked (hot pack) product, you can collect your tomatoes in freezer bags throughout the summer. When they thaw the skins will come right off, no boiling necessary.
I've switched over mostly to determinates to save TONS of water. Being able to get the harvest before the hot dry water sucking months. I still grow a few indeterminates for fresh eating through the season but the rest are determinate.
Have you considered adding rain barrels to your setup? I'm not sure your location, but if you're out west and have a monsoon season, they can be very beneficial.
@@TheMillennialGardener I need to try to figure out a easy & cheap rain collection set up. I live in an area that gets tons of rain april, may, june, and then nothing july, aug, sept.
This is exactly how I do it. I like the indeterminates for interest and grow the determinates for canning. Although, there are several plant breeders now days who are breeding determinates that are very interesting and flavorful. I have also been growing the dwarf tomato project tomatoes for 5 years now, I just love them.
I LOVE The Dwarf Tomato Project. It's a crime that more people don't know about it. I do what I can do bring awareness to the varieties, because they truly are "the best of both worlds." I am happy to see more interesting determinate varieties being bred as well. Indeterminates are fine, but they're too much work for generally low, staggered production. Where I live, disease is so rough that indeterminates are a nightmare come late June.
So what is this dwarf tomato project? I am very interested. New to growing and bought dwarf determinate plants this year and am very happy with them. How do I find about it? Is a place where you can buy seeds? I just did a google search for it and still not quite sure. Any help would be appreciated
@@bc24roxy4 I wish I had known about all of this before I planted my two indeterminate tomatoes in pots, in my tiny patio! Googled dwarf tomato project - www.dwarftomatoproject.net/
@@bc24roxy4 look at Bakers creek
@@crystalmyrick9429 Thanks I was wondering too.
I'm with you on this. I can and dry and want more tomatoes in at one time. Indeterminants are for slicing, fresh eating. THANKS!!!
Thanks for watching!
If Florida determinate make the most sense for sure. Grew celebrity for the first time and I'm sold.
I stick with Indeterminate for the Yields... Though I planted a 24 pack of 'rainbow' tomato seeds in 12 cells... Gonna be 15-17 Roulette plants to keep the best seeds from for next year.
Whatever grows best in my climate is basically what I have to stick to... then pick the best out of them.
Old German, Black Brandy, and Roma are the three that grew the best last year so they're my first three plants. :)
Only thing I disagree with is productivity... I was literally getting a handful of tomatoes every day with 4 plants.
Had a tomato based meal every week. Sauce, Pintos and tomato sauce, chili, salsa... Even froze some premade sauce and had it for dinner last night!
ETA on next ripe garden tomatoes... 6-8 weeks. My old World German just put out it's first flower bud, but a while till it opens still.
Dude, you had me at production! LOL. Thank you for such a concise and informative video! It's nice to learn from others experience. We've just grabbed what looked good and never even noticed or cared if it were determinant or not.....and yeah, we had LOTS of growth but, aside from the small tomatoes, had little fruit.
It's very important to read if the variety is determinate or indeterminate, because they have radically different growth and fruiting habits. Indeterminates need staking/trellising and pruning, but if you prune a determinate, they will set little fruit. Determinate tomatoes should *not* be pruned! It's EXTREMELY important you don't prune a determinate type. Thanks for watching!
indeterminate is nice when you don't have the space to let your tomatoes bush out and want to use vertical space. also the foliage tends to be less bunched together and more spaced apart when growing them up a vine which can be useful for disease prevention and air flow. i do see people getting buckets of tomatoes off determinate in small pots though and i'm always impressed by that because you'd expect the opposite looking at the size of the plants.
I just watched someone on another channel sacrifice a lot of potential fruit with his determinate tomato pruning. Thank you for confirming how to prune a determinate tomato plant. I’m actually growing a few indeterminate tomatoes this year for the first time for large slicing tomatoes which my hubby wanted. I’m glad I only planted 4. Very helpful info as always, thank you. ❤
To save space, and grow vertically with determinate tomatoes, how about making a pot pole, so containers can be stacked directly on top of each other and all you would need is 3 or 4 six to eight foot tall stakes to put all the pots inside stacked so they are supported and won't tip over. Then you just cut a little round notch in the top and side of each pot(or grow bag) for the tomato plant to grow out of. You could grow way more tomato plants this way in a smaller footprint, and also any excess water that runs out the bottom of a pot will water the container below it and not be wasted.
I live in the Pacific Northwest, we have very dry, warm to hot summers. When I grew indeterminate plants, they often were covered with fruit as the rains began in earnest in September. This causes the fruit to split open. With determinate varieties, my harvest occurs before the fall rains. Many people just pull up their indeterminate plants and hang them up to force-ripen the fruit out of the rain. I'd rather have lots of vine ripened tomatoes over a short time than resort to that technique again.
Love the channel and the garden! I've always had the experience that indeterminate take up less space since I train them up a single stem and am vigilant about the pruning. So I agree they may be less maintenance, but do you think they really are less space? I can fit an indeterminate in 1sq ft, but they do grow tall.
Glad I found your channel. Cheers!
Before I saw this video, I was starting to think the same thing. I was looking to can my tomatoes, so I figured determinate is really the only way to go. With indeterminate, not enough tomatoes are ripe at the same time to do that.
I'm in Eastern NC. Grow my tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets and only grow determinate varieties for the very reasons you explained. I got tired of losing all my tomatoes to disease!
Excellent! Growing indeterminates here can be painful. This dry spring has my indeterminates looking remarkably fantastic for this point in the season, but we can't always count on this dry weather. Determinates beat the diseases, which I love about them.
When I was young, back in the 70's, tomatoes we grew on our farm were juicy, had a bursting, citrusy, mouth watering flavor. In addition they were non woody, and didn't a pulp that was paste like in texture with that tough exterior skin that tomatoes seem to have today. Anyone notice this difference in tomatoes nowadays? Seems this is the case. Almost indiscriminate between if I'm growing them myself or worse buying them from the store.
Yes tomatoes aren't the same are they? I had them on my grandparents farm and I haven't had a really really good tomato since then
Agree'd, determinates. But my # 1 reason is flavor. I've never found a better combo of sweet/tart than that of the Celebrity determinate. In So. California, we also have the long growing season which allows us to start a new crop in the middle of the life of the determinates so they can keep us in mators nearly all year. I also keep a few indeterminates growing too, some of which last almost a year.
I am a fan of Celebrity. I worked my entire teenage years on a farm in NJ, and the owner only grew Celebrity hybrids. That's the ONLY thing he planted, and people came from all over to buy his tomatoes. Celebrity is very good. However, I will tell you a tomato that's even better flavor-wise: Siletz. It is INCREDIBLE. It's a fantastic early tomato. They're not as large, uniform and "perfect" looking as Celebrity, but the flavor is off the charts. They're excellent to grow as an early crop, and as a late crop in the fall, because they're a 55-60 day tomato. I recommend keeping Celebrity as the summer crop due to their size and heat tolerance.
@@TheMillennialGardener LOL, after reading some of the replys, I'd already ordered a pack of Siletz. So I'll soon know what you know about them. I look forward to that. Thank you.
@@davidl.williams7366 Excellent! They're a fantastic early season tomato. I'm not sure how well they'll do in the heat of the summer since they were bred for the Pacific Northwest. If they don't do well for you this late in the season, give them another try as an early tomato next season. That's where Siletz really shines.
I love canning tomatoes to use throughout the winter. I always plant determinate tomatoes. My favorite is Rutgers. I’m in the the same zone as you, NE Georgia.
I want to thank you so much for all you do, and the work you put into these very clear, concise, and simple explanations of all these garden videos! You are a gem and have helped me in my first year of gardening last year. I was making my container gardening very complicated as the initial learning curve was mind boggling with all the info on TH-cam. Now I only listen to a few channels and you are one of them. I've shared your channel to whom I can.
I was going to grow a 50/50 mix, because I love to eat fresh tomatoes right up until the first frost. (not needing to open any of my cans).
But you've convinced me to only grow a couple indeterminate's. Thankfully our local store has 4" pots for $2.00 right now. Gotta go to the store!
I totally agree with you here. I can only grow in containers, so space saving is a priority. In the past few years I’ve grown both types and had ok success. This year I started from seed Red Racer ( determinate) and Mountain Magic(indeterminate). They are both a Campari type tomato. The production on the Red Racer is phenomenal while the Mountain Magic is good but more like a typical indeterminate. Red Racer is very juicy and very meaty. I’m in the desert southwest so it’s getting hot by June. I think next year I’m going to start a second group of plants a few weeks later than the first to see if I can extend the growing season a bit. Worth a try.
I really enjoy your videos. I can always rely on you to have throughly researched any project you show us. Looks like you’re getting very close to that 100k subscriber number. Very exciting for you. Love seeing Dale adventures too. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing. 😎🌵
I forgot to ask you where can I find some good information about the Dwarf tomato project?
Thanks for your support. That really means a lot to me. In your harsh climate, I would expect determinates to perform better since they’ll ripen more quickly before temps get out of hand. I am growing a determinate called Abu Rawan you may want to look into. I haven’t tasted it yet, but it is an Iraqi tomato bred for heat tolerance and supposed to excel in desert climates.
@@TheMillennialGardener Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out. Did you start it from seed?
Did you plant a second crop? I too live in the desert southwest and have had trouble growing tomatoes. I’ve tried five different dwarfs and several inter determinate tomato plants with mixed results. The plants that I transplanted first in the garden set the most fruit, so I think the trick is to get them planted as early as possible and protect them from a late frost. I inter determinate plants produced a second fruit set during the monsoon, so the cooler temperatures helped.
Great video. Florida here. Last year, I tried indeterminate. Never again.Florida is a bit to brutal for them, with the exception of the Everglades tomatoes they are the sweetest hardiest little salad tomatoes I’ve ever grown. So back to my determinate tomatoes 🍅
I soooo agree with you! I live in hot, humid Georgia. My indeterminate plants are the first to get disease and a pain to constantly prune. My determinate ones are much more disease resistant and produce more tomatoes (with the exception of my cherry tomato plants). I plant 2 rounds of determinate tomato plants (April & June) and I have much more tomatoes all season long. One round of indeterminate plants planted in late April or early May are diseased and dying by mid-August!
This is exactly what I've learned. My second crop of determinates are already in-ground and a foot tall. The *only* two indeterminates that have survived and still look decent are Super Sweet VF 100, and Arkansas Traveler. They can survive our weather here in the South, so I do recommend them to you. They also set fruit even in the worst of our heat and humidity, which is amazing! But aside from those two, I haven't found an indeterminate that can tolerate our July's and August's.
@@TheMillennialGardener Thank you for your advice! I am currently growing super sweet 100 cherry tomatoes and agree with you. They have outgrown my 14' trellis and are covered in cherry tomatoes even right now in late August. I will definitely grow those again next year, and will also try the Arkansas Traveler. I bought the seeds this year but have not grown them yet. Excited to try them too!
I'll probably start mixing in more determinates and staggering the plantings. With our garden being at my parent's house, those indeterminates sometimes get out of control by the time I make it there to check on things. The one thing I DO love about them though is getting "free" extra plants from those suckers :)
Great video! I made the switch years ago. We can make all the sauce we need for the year (three bushels) and still have tomatoes for canning whole and fresh eating all from a relatively small space. All the new breeding goes into the determinants because they are the plants farmers are growing commercially.
Klaus
Thanks for watching!
I definitely prefer the growth habbit of indeterminate tomatoes. Prune the suckers and train them up a stake. Neat and tidy!
Indeterminate tomatoes require constant maintenance, pruning, and they ripen fruit very slowly as much of their energy is always diverted into growing new vines. This video is about production. Determinate tomatoes crush indeterminate tomatoes in production. They fruit sooner, ripen more quickly, require no pruning, and require very little disease management. Indeterminates are the opposite of all that. If you like the process of growing indeterminates, that's fine. However, there is a reason why commercial growers grow determinate tomatoes and not indeterminates. Indeterminates are for hobbyists. Determinates are for production.
this is the best video outlining the differences, pros and cons between the 2 types
Really well thought out video. I’m growing mostly determinate varieties for food storage reasons. Nothing compares to home made tomato sauce. Celebrity, Champion and San Diego all produce heavy crops here in zone 10a and I can get in a second crop by propagating suckers. That said I like the variety of colors and flavors I can get from certain indeterminate varieties with Paul Robeson and Carbon two favorites. Thanks for the informative video.
I definitely advocate for growing indeterminates. I just think the bulk of your production should be determinates, with a few indeterminates on the side for a hobby and for salads. Being in 10a, I would think you could low-tunnel some early determinates all winter. I have to believe some Siletz tomatoes would do FANTASTIC for you in a low tunnel. It was bred at Oregon State University in the 90's to ripen in the PNW, so I'd think it could do well for you all winter. It's a 55 day tomato with 5-10oz fruits.
@@TheMillennialGardener Thats a good tip! I typically only plant cool season crops in winter but I’ll try Siletz this Fall. Thanks.
Thanks. I love you're informative videos. I was an indeterminate snob until last year when I grew Silvery Fir Tree. Holy cow those plants produced so many tomatoes and the earliest I've ever had fruit. The taste was so so but still impressive. BTW you're video on parthenogenic cucumbers blew my mind...lol.
I'm glad to hear that! I'm willing to bet most people that are upset with this video have simply never given determinates a fair chance, or have never grown them at all. When you grow them side-by-side and give them an honest assessment, it becomes clear that determinates are a must-grow in your garden. Determinates don't have nearly the wide selection of indeterminates, so they aren't as "fun and exciting," but in terms of practicality and production, it's silly not to grow them as the foundation of your garden. Get a strong foundation, then build on top of it.
I'm glad you liked the cucumber video! I'm growing two parthenocarpic cucumbers this season. China Jade is blowing my mind. Each plant is pumping out like 4 three-foot-long, seedless cucumbers a week. It's crazy!
@@TheMillennialGardener ..I'll keep a lookout for China Jade seeds. They sound awesome..thanks.
For me,it's all about the taste,no matter the journey to get there.
I've had my fair share of indeterminate varieties that have lousy taste, and my fair share of determinates that are very, very good. I would recommend looking into Siletz and Celebrity. Siletz rivals the best heirloom indeterminates that I've ever tasted, and Celebrity is as large and good as any indeterminate hybrid. There are lots of great varieties out there.
This year I decided to grow four different kind of tomatoes.
Big boy
Celebrity
Fourth of July
Super sweet 100
I’m in south eastern Pennsylvania. I figured I’ll plant different types. Can’t go wrong. My father planted big boy and he would stake them using a big piece of wood like you would put through Dracula. He would tie them up with his old work clothes torn apart. Into strips. He was a welder and made choo choos for the budd company. Ww2 vet. Everything old school. In everything. Taught good work ethics. He would rake the leaves into the garden. All old school. The seeds are germinating right now. As I speak. I took a peek. I just put the surplus tomatoes in ziplock freezer bags and dump it in my vegetable soup. Skin and all. It adds a fresh wonderful taste.
This will be my first year trying determinate. I plan on starting seeds indoors at about the 60 day mark so that I can remove the old plants and replant in the same day at about 100 days, getting 2 heavy crops rather than a long slow crop. I'll have some indeterminate also.
Thanks for the video. I heard what I wanted to hear.
That sounds about right. Usually, you want to start your tomato seeds about 8 weeks before transplanting in the winter. However, keep in mind they'll grow faster in the spring and summer, because the days are longer. You may only need 6 weeks on the second round of seedlings.
Such great information, thank you. This year I am planting the majority determinant Roma, San Marzono, and Amish Paste tomatoes for the sole reason of canning. I will also plant indeterminmant varieties for slicers to last through the season. I live in Mississippi and had tomatoes unmtil last week.
I think the determinate Roma’s will be excellent. I will caution you on San Marzano. I grew 3 plants about 5 years ago, and while the fruit is good, they only ripen 2 tomatoes at a time, and they’re 3 ounces a piece. Pretty small fruits. I couldn’t do anything with them, because I didn’t have enough to make it worthwhile. If you want buckets of San Marzano tomatoes, you’ll need to grow dozens of plants. That’s why I gave up on the variety. Canning indeterminates doesn’t work unless you have tons of plants.
I know this video is old but it makes me so happy to hear about other having low yields on indeterminate tomatoes. I have 8 slots to put indeterminate tomato plants in and do 2-3 cherries in leaving about 5 slots for slicers. Then i get 3-8 tomatoes across the whole season from the indeterminates and am left disappointed. Im growing early varities and determinate tomatoes this year
Thank you for sharing your experiences with determinate tomatoes!
You're welcome! They're truly underrated and need more promotion.
I’m also transitioning to more determinant tomatoes. One of the knocks on determinants has been inferior flavor compared to indeterminant tomatoes, but the breeding today has pretty much solved that issue. Good call on the dwarf project. One of my favorite dwarf tomatoes is Rosella Purple. Highly recommended if you haven’t tried it.
The idea that determinates don't taste as good as indeterminates is flawed. There are 10 times more indeterminates to choose from, so it's easier to find good indeterminates. However, there are plenty of bland, flavorless indeterminate varieties out there. As gardeners, we need to trial many determinates and find the best tasting ones, too. There are plenty of good determinates out there. Thanks for watching!
I’m trying out a few determinate varieties for the first time this year. I’m trying out a few dwarf tomatoes too, both indeterminate and determinate varieties. I’m very excited to see the results!
It's going to shock you how easy it is to grow determinates compared to indeterminates. You're also going to LOVE the dwarfs. The fruit quality on the dwarf tomatoes are absolutely outstanding! Best of luck! You have A LOT to look forward to!
@@TheMillennialGardener awesome, thank you! I can’t wait to see for myself
Thank you again, for this year's tips....You make gardening so easy to understand. Happy Growing.....
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
We're just down the road in North Myrtle Beach. Love your gardening advice. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
I learned my lesson. I am growing almost all determinate this fall for my second planting.
I am going to, as well. I grew indeterminates last year for my fall planting, which was a tragedy. They took too long to ripen in the cooler fall weather, and right when they began to turn, frost came. I wound up with a bunch of green tomatoes for frying and that was about it. This year, I'll be growing determinates and a couple indeterminate cherry tomatoes since they're early.
Thanks for this video. It's giving me something to think about.
I am growing a lot of tomatoes. I am also in NC, zone 8a. The majority of my tomatoes are cherry. This is because I fought a war with catapillars last year. I lost most of the large tomatoes because of bugs. The cherry tomatoes were hit as well but I was still able to get tons! We even cut them back hard due to catapillars in early Sept and got tons of tomatoes in October. I'm using neem oil and Bt this year instead of Manuel removal.
I grew micro tom tomatoes over the winter. I took cuttings and rooted them and they are producing tomatoes. Very quick variety. 2 months from cuttings to tomatoes. I am staggering my cuttings about a month apart to see how that goes.
I find neem oil to be good at one thing: burning your plants. The oil reacts with the sun and can really damage leaves. I've found it utterly useless for anything else. BT is good for caterpillars, and massacres tomato hornworms. When I spray that, I come out the next morning and their dried corpses will be on the plants. Another great product is spinosad. Spinosad will kill pollinators, so spray that at night. Spinosad kills caterpillers AND moths. BT will not kill moths, so it doesn't fully break the cycle since the moths still lay. Spinosad kills them all. I have spinosad linked in my Amazon Storefront, and it is completely organic.
@@TheMillennialGardener - that's good to know, thank you. I'll get some. I was disappointed in neem oil in my hydroponics unit. It was recommended for little black bugs.
Are these determinate or indeterminate? Can determinate tomatoes be propagated from cuttings?
Legend. Determinate that keeps on producing all season. Fairly early blight resistant as well. I tried Legend for the first time 3 years ago. It now has top status here. Last year we were picking Legend from early June until the end of the season. It just kept on growing and producing. So far this year I'm seeing the same. Taste? Terrific.
Indeterminate is my favorite! I planted a determinant tomato plant one time and I only got like 5 tomatoes. And that was it, plant was done. Now on Indeterminate, beefsteak is my favorite I will get like 40 off one plant. It's a no brainer!
Tomatoes don’t last to begin with in the climate that I’m in. Humid, wet, rain. Might as well get a huge harvest all at once.
I feel your pain. Growing tomatoes here is very difficult. Determinates work so much better here, because they tend to ripen before the disease crushes them.
@@TheMillennialGardener yeah determinates are the only ones that really give me fruit. Only indeterminate variety I’ve had any luck with is the sungold cherries. Lucky me because those buggers are the sweetest cherry tomatoes I’ve eaten. My opinion. I’ll always keep trying though. Aloha🤙🏼
@Magic yeah I’ve tried em and no luck. Unless their determinates then maybe but the beefsteaks I’ve tried are not. I’ll try again. Gardening is about trial and error. Win some lose some. Life. 🤙🏼 Aloha
In Phoenix I plant both but I prefer indeterminate because I plant in late August and have them until April or May depending on when the heat comes. We eat cherry tomatoes through the winter.
Im also in Phoenix.
Can you please tell the varieties that you like for us? Thank you so much!
As a fairly "new to vegetable gardening" gardener, I really appreciate all the great information you provided in this video. My gardening space is very limited, so now I'm much better equipped with the knowledge of what kind of 🍅🍅🍅 are best suited to my space. Thanks so much. 💚😊💚
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the five varieties of dwarf tomatoes grown by you and Midwest gardener will bear fruit. I've been using the electric toothbrush pollination method you recommend every morning. I'm hoping the plants will set fruit before the brutal summer heat arrives. I might do a second planting but am not sure which of the dwarfs grow again. If it's a bust, I might not grow them again. I do have some Ace, Supremo Roma, Early Girl, and Yellow Pear as well, which all have small tomatoes right now. Keep the great videos coming! I'm waiting for a new one on pest and disease control. Cheers!
HA! I have a pest and disease control video that I just uploaded today that's going live Saturday at 10AM! We are on the same page! I just had a big breakthrough in that department. Be careful with the electric toothbrush. It works incredibly well, but you don't need to do it every morning. You may actually wind up knocking the flowers off. I usually do it once a week. I think you'll be impressed with the dwarfs. They haven't let me down yet.
@@TheMillennialGardener Great minds think alike! LOL. I'll take your advice and hold off on using the toothbrush every day. I've hit all of the current flowers and will wait for new ones to pollinate. Speaking of flowers, one of the Adelaide Festival tomatoes what appears to be a double flower and looks to be developing into a double tomato. I sure hope I get lucky with one of these five dwarfs (Adelaide Festival, Boronia, Rosella Purple, Tasmanian Chocolate, & Uluru Ochre). I look forward to watching your pest and disease video. This afternoon I think I'm going to spray BT on the tomatoes because there is already small fruit on some of the plants and want to see if I can keep the fruit worms at bay. Cheers!
@@archstanton9703 I'm not sure if every one will enjoy your climate, but I think you'll overall be impressed by the dwarfs. Best of luck!
@@TheMillennialGardener A few of the dwarfs have small tomatoes, and I’m hoping they’ll set some more fruit before it hits 95. Aledaide Festival was the first to set fruit. Cheers!
Depends heavily on environmental conditions. In my greenhouse my heirlooms do very well and i prefer having steady stream of amazingly great tasting tomatoes all summer into first frost/late fall.
I understand, which is why I grew nothing but indeterminates my entire life. However, I'm only "waking up" to determinates, now. I have no doubt your indeterminates do well, but determinates will outperform them per square foot on terms of fruit production. Indeterminates spend too much of their energy growing new vines. In the time it takes for your indeterminate tomatoes to fruit, you could be planting wave after wave of determinates successively, and since the plants die out naturally, they're easy to grow organically since they usually die on their own before disease gets them. If you like specific indeterminate varieties, I say keep growing them, but truly consider determinates, because it'll increase your yields big time.
@@TheMillennialGardener it seems to me it would take at least as much time to replant (in our climate not an option since we have a short season as is) than it is to prune my vines. You keep saying that they just keep making more vine... what about the fruit, they keep producing heavily all through the season. In southern climates your way might be more efficient in the end. But with our short seasons i cant see two sets of tomatoes ripening in succession. (Berlin Germany - for reference: further north than Toronto but with milder climate)
This is Feb 2023 now. Dwarf tomatoes I'll consider now for the small footprint for the backyard garden. We missed out last year for determinate tomato plants. We got seeds last month determinate.
This video packs a punch. Thank you. I'm in zone 6b Ct.
👍🏼satisfied with your comparison ! Well done !
Thanks for watching!
I grow both about 50/50, and while the Immediate yield is true for determinate tomatoes, indeterminate definitely produces more through the year. Also, you CAN eat the leaves of a tomato plant.
it probably depends how long your season is.
I've had a garden each year solid for at least the last10+ years (and off & on for another 5 or so) AND my hubby (who doesn't know the difference bless his heart) bought 3 determinate tomato plants!!??? I'm like "Snap"!! I gotta hit TH-cam and see how I should train & prune these guys! Our indeterminates grow all over the place, break their heavy duty cages & hit 7 feet tall. I'm not the best at always getting to the suckers like I should- but we have fruit until frost. We do a lot of stewing and freezing for sauces. Thank You so much for your video! I've got the proper way to lay out my plants. The indeterminate wont overgrow my Basil! My cucumbers are so easy to train up an A frame chicken wire trellis. I can't believe after all these years this is my first determinate experience!! I don't know what's in the soil here in Nebraska but I have never had such productive garden. Thanks again- you have one of the best videos out there!
OMG ! Great info ! This was my first year growing tomatoes, all indeterminates, and I see what you are saying! Thanks so much!
Thanks for watching!
Appreciated this video very much. Those are some pretty good reasons to try the determinate varieties. I even like the dwarf options. Next year, I will make some changes in my garden up here in Ohio. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Definitely check out Victory Seed and look at their massive library of Dwarf Tomato Project seed. They're so good.
Didn’t know ANY of this! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
This is new information to me and very much appreciated. You are a good teacher!
Thanks for watching!
I grow both. Best of both worlds. My silitz tomato plants are huge! Thanks for the tip on those BTW! I love grape tomatoes. I want those over time not all at once. Honestly the growth thing is B.S. My indeterminates have far less growth than my determinates per plant. The indeterminates are fine, nice and straight vines. I prune properly. All I have to do for maintenance is tie them up once in a while and pinch suckers. I use notched 8' tall strapping. If I didn't cage my determinates they'd be all over the place. I don't prune them. And yes, my silitz just started ripening. But I planted late in zone 5a.
Blight wiping out my indeterminate plants. Thank goodness I also planted determinate.
Thanks. This is great time saving information. Can wait till next year when I can try this out.
Thanks for watching!
I have mostly grown indeterminates this year I just bought 4 determinates for a change. I am glad I did the right thing. Nice video thanks
Another consideration is how many tomatoes you eat. I personally don't eat very many tomatoes, I like to have one or two very good ones every so often, which is why I've only ever grown indeterminates. However, after watching your videos I've decided to run a couple determinates, Health Kick and Legend, this year.
THANK YOU for such a great & thorough comparison between determinate & indeterminate!!! Here in northern Wyoming, Zone 4b, our season is soooo short - 17 weeks! I haven't had a garden many years, but have found the indeterminates very slow on production - and blamed my lack of skills! But, the determinates have been productive. So, now I know a big reason why the difference. I'd chosen a lot of indeterminates so far, hoping to a staggered production, so I wouldn't be overloaded all at once. But, you point out many good reasons - plus my short season - why determinates are the bomb! I'll be growing a much larger percentage of determinates now. Thanks again!
This guy is an impressive squatter…I suspect a former catcher?
I learned my lesson last year. I'm over all that extra trellising. Growing half and half so far. But I'm about to succession drop more determinate seeds tomorrow.
I think 50/50 is a good mix for most gardeners. If you want to produce a lot of fruit for neighbors, maybe 60/40 determinates/indeterminates. If you do a lot of canning, you may want to go as high as 80/20 determinates/indeterminates. To me, indeterminates are fun, interesting hobby tomatoes for your salad at dinner, but determinates are where it's at for production, sharing and storage.
We got the largest crop of tomatoes ever this year by planting indeterminate types and by planting early so that the tomatoes would be ready to harvest before the bugs attacked. Many people don’t realize it but a tomato can be harvested as soon as they start to show color. The flavor will not be affected and they will ripen inside your home. You do not have to wait for the tomatoes to ripen in the plant…thus preventing bugs and caterpillars from eating them.
This is my first year to garden. My determinate tomatoes are kicking indeterminate butt.
my favorite determinate is the Dwarf Purple Heart. It is not a true dwarf, at least it doesn't grow like that here (central Canada), it sprawls large on my straw mulch beds and has lots of product. It is tender skinned, so needs careful handling and should be used sooner than some others, but the taste is incredible. It may be psychological, due to the muted dark hues, but I think it even has a note of smoky taste sometimes. Definitely a full flavor and the shape is unique, too.
Love to see your videos. Especially love your pride of living in NC. Keep putting out great videos.
Thanks for watching!
I like the idea! Also you can stagger your tomato plants so you can have a steady harvest. I’m glad I caught this video.
Yes, that is what I do. I have two plantings: a spring crop and a fall crop. Indeterminate tomatoes fail to produce a fall crop here, because they take too long to grow and ripen fruit. However, determinate tomatoes have more success. Because determinate tomatoes stop growing after a certain point, they put all their energy into ripening fruit instead of wasting it growing new vines, so they're much more effective at ripening crops.
Dude, I love your videos, but this one was a home run. I alternate years on determinates/indeterminates, and double up on my squash/pumpkins/cucumbers when I do indeterminates- (which I top out at 8 1/2 feet). I also make it a point to experiment with heirloom varieties in the indeterminate years, and save seed. Since I can all my excess, the determinate years are salsa and pasta sauce, and canned tomatoes.. The indeterminate years are pickles and pie filling. I also grow my hotter peppers with determinates...We are switching this winter from teepees and soaker hoses to A-frame "lodges" and drip irrigation to save waterl. (Great videos on that subject as well!) I'm ALSO going to be trying a Lila avocado, because of your video!
All good points, my friend. I might go that way in the future. But here's why I stick to indeterminate:
1) Growing on a vertical vine allows me to pick fruit with little bending.
2) My hydroponics system is optimized for vertical growth instead of lateral growth, so determinate varieties become expensive and take up valuable real estate on my system.
3) Once ripe, I pick tomatoes every 1 to 3 days. I trim the suckers at the same time, so I am not going out of my way to maintain them.
4) I don't do canning or do long term storage. I cannot handle too much fruit at once, so determinate varieties are generally out for me.
But as you suggested, it would be a shame not to try. Thanks, man.
It will be worth your time to work some determinates into your routine. They are so productive and so low maintenance versus indeterminates, it's really limiting to exclude them. The more I grow them, the more I realize how superior they are at production and maintenance. Thanks for watching!
I will try determinate tomatoes next year in my large containers! Thanks for your fantastic videos!
Really good point!!! I'm gong to be planting a Roma variety, but I think I'll start a different variety for succession. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
Ok! you talked me into it. I am an indeterminate tomato grower, but now listening to you I'm going try the determinate and see if I like it!
It's definitely worth trying. I still recommend growing both. However, making the base of your "food pyramid" determinates is smart. It's easier to make them the bulk of your garden and grow some indeterminates on the side for fun.
I completely understand and totally agree with your logic!!!👍👍
Thanks for watching!
I grow both determinate and indeterminate, and for the most part I agree with everything you said. I will say that in very windy conditions the Florida-weave doesn't work. We have such bad summer storms here in central Missouri that I have to grow determinate tomatoes up trellises anchored to 6 foot T-posts drive at least a foot in the ground. My indeterminate tomatoes grow up and over cattle panel arches, also anchored on T-posts.
Also, during really rainy summers here you HAVE to thin some of the leaves on your determinate tomatoes, as well as taking the bottom leaves up to a foot, with heavy grass mulch, or blight will take your entire crop.
So helpful and informative! I will definitely plant more determinate tomatoes. Thanks so much!!
Well, I love my celebrity tomatoes, but I grow both. Just love the flavor of the celebrity tomato for fresh eating.
First year growing Determinates. This was really helpful.
Outstanding! Let us know at the end of the season how they worked out for you. Thanks for watching!
@@TheMillennialGardener it’s May, nothing ripe yet. All of my determinates are in 5 gal buckets with holes up 2” from the bottom. Indeterminate said are in Earthtainers. Ground is really rocky here in El Dorado Hills, Calif. (el do rocks hills) so everything is in containers