Damn Intermittents (2014 Buick Encore 5v Ref Circuit Short)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Intermittent problems are the worst things to deal with. Here are some tips and what I look for.
P0651 5v Reference 2 Circuit Problem.
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I have learned so much from your videos! I was able to prove my case with a Ford buyback because I bought myself a data tool and followed alot of your videos. I pissed a ton of dealership techs off along the way specially because I'm a chick. lol
Awesome 👍😁👍
Really appreciate your diligence. Never underestimate the power of the “Fix It” button!!
Scannerdanner and cameradanner at it again!
I just want to thank you and tell you how much I appreciate all of your videos and knowledge you share with all of us. I'm learning alot from you and you help me out all the time when I need it. THANK YOU Mr.Danner, again and props to your son Kaleb for being a great camera man
Looks like that fix button on the scanner worked...
hahaha I guess it did!
Those drive every mechanic insane
I really enjoy watching when you are at your bothers shop and he's there in the videos... He's funny and you too going back and forth is entertaining, its nice to see two brothers working together
I wonder who gave whom the nuggies when they were kids?
Put a scope on the wires and drive it!
I think tenacity is a part of troubleshooting these intermittent problems. I been plagued with an intermittent no spark for a couple months on a 1995 4runner. Time to purchase a oscilloscope. Suspect 5v sensor circuit in the distributor pick up. Hopefully with a scope I can graph what going on and tell if it's a wire issue or a component. Your vids give encouragement to this old man!
I love your videos. Because it shows that even pros need to step back and think about it. It also makes me feel less crazy talking to myself.
Love your videos! You are knowledgeable and seem to diagnose problems the correct way. I was introduced to this channel through a Professor at a Trade School that teaches Autotech classes!
Speaking of intermittents we worked one on a 727 with the autopilot intermittently kicking off.We changed black boxes, equip. racks, wires , plugs & connectors , and even flew test hops troubleshooting for almost a year unable to duplicate the flaw. Finally the Feds demanded we ground and fix it ! For several days we had a person in the cockpit monitoring while the autopilot was engaged. One afternoon when the sun went down the autopilot did a un-commanded disengage. The discovery was made that a faulty photo cell diode on the instrument panel (to brighten up the instrument panel when the cockpit lighting became dim) was allowing the autopilot to short to ground , and causing the autopilot disconnects. $100s of thousands of dollars spent for maybe a $2 diode in the end .
Great story !
So the parts cannon exists in every industry. I would assume there is a Dorman like parts supplier of the aviation industry?
@@mph5896 ITT Cannon supplies so many connectors they are very common in aviation.
Great Job brother. I think the takeaway from this video is COMMUNICATION. With both the shop owner and the customer. Keep up the good work.
I'm only 5 min into the Video and can tell you something like that almost kicked my but a couple of months back. PCM was the Culprit in my case. The 5V drooped out only for a few milliseconds and came back but it was enough for the check engine light to start flashing and the SUV going into limp mode . Scan Tool(Verus Edge) did not detect it nor did it set a code. I finally managed to catch it with the Pico. It was very Frustrating as it took multiple attempts to finally condemn the PCM.
The best part is that you PROVED AND VERIFIED the failure.
@@HouseCallAutoRepair My Slogan is "If I can't fix it you owe nothing" That being said, I do like to get paid as I don't charge that much in the first place LOL
what car or engine?
What is the difference between the pico and the edge.
@@Mikael5732 The Pico is not a scan tool it is a automotive oscilloscope(Super fast volt meter) I was actually able to catch the dropout.
Don't hate familiarizing yourself on video. Shows us how to find info and that even the best don't have all the answers automatically. We're learning from even your frustrations.
What’s needed here is Bernie Thompson’s eSCOPE using all 8 channels on all related sensors, powers & grounds.
How y'all DOIN' today?
Color boards, too! Caleb, you might think about 'new media' at college, if you are so inclined. It would dovetail well with your music and technical skill set. Who knows where this will take you, somewhere good, probably. School can be horizon expanding. At my youngest son's high school graduation day, the principal said that half of the class will end up doing jobs that aren't even invented, yet. I had no idea how true that was.
Nice video Danners! Just a quick FYI. That 1.4 is not GDI. It's just normal port fuel injection. The rattle noise is the purge valve. They are screaming loud. Used to have customers complain about them all the time. Unplug it an they would see the noise was gone. Then they were with it lol.
I should share this video with all my friends that think cars are easier to fix with the computer systems. I deal with intermittent problems to much. Thanks for all your videos.
I'm glad I posted it. I've been holding this one for awhile and was waiting on the second chance at the car but it never happened. Over a month, maybe 6 weeks since we filmed with no fault.
Happy new year Paul and family, is really great to see another video Saturday evening.
Happy new year! Thank you my friend
The very best to you and your family 👪
What a great way to start the new year, Loved it👍
Thanks SD, Stay Safe❤
I've learned just as much from this video as I have from an other you guys have done. Awesome vid, as usual !!
Editing skills on point!
Intermittent problems are so annoying. I’ve been through with couple cars. So difficult and challenging but fixed it all.. Happy new year!! Looking forward for 2021. My goal for this year is get better at my diagnostic skills and work MORE cars.
In the UK people/customers seam to think that deleting the codes fixes the fault, Always hear can't you "just turn the light off"
Happy New Year 2021 Paul to you and your family! God Blessing. Thanks for another interesting troubleshooting video!
Can you do a video on diagnostics of gdi injectors for flow and other problems?
I have a customer with a snow plow that loses ref v 2-3 times every year when he pulls it out of storage. It fixes itself before I can chase it down and eventually stops occurring for the season. So I've been chasing it down for 4 years.
Have a great New Year.
Fascist - you have to PROmise to come back to this comment if you ever figure it out:) i have an old snowcat that gives me different but intermittent problems every year i pull it out too:))) -barbie
As a GM tech I see A LOT of terminal tension issues causing intermittents. We actually have test probes that check for the right amount of tension in connector terminals. Even brand new vehicles I've seen some completely hogged out and not making good enough contact.
Oh and there may also have been something going on with connectors x112 and x200 according to that diagram.
Loud clicking noise coming from evaporation valve wich is in top of the engine (13:06 it can be seen there ) also it affects fuel trim when it brakes completely ,you can disconect it and will see that clicking will disappear ))
What does it do?
Coupla months ago was fighting a Nissan Altima that the windows, seat, locks, etc would intermittently stop working; found after much investigation that there was one small section of wiring harness going through the frame to the driver door combo switch that was not protected by plastic sheathing... it had rubbed through the tape and a couple of hot wires insulation! When it moved off the frame, the BCM internal fuses would reset, and everything would work fine until the wrong bump or door slam re-connected the short!!! I think I used an entire roll of electrical tape on that section... LOL!
I get my tail whipped on just about everyday on these vehicles of today, A little bit of everything, my worst problems is lack of customer of knowing how vehicles work. It just stopped? It will not stay running? It jumps? There is a noise coming from the vehicle? I ask most people how long they have to drive before the vehicle acts up, most do not know or about every other week is there answer. I feel for all mechanics or techs with today's vehicles.
On ‘“fix it”, if your subscription was up to date, it would show you a history of parts that fixed it based on miles. I use it to ensure I haven’t missed a system when I go through my testing. It helps, somewhat, when you have incomplete or inaccurate wiring diagrams.
Thanks guys and Happy New Year!
5v ref resistance check to ground. Wet the engine bay. If it is shorted to ground any resistance to ground is an indication the wire is exposed.
Had a honda element come to our shop, customer was advised to go to the dealer. inside of he car there was a danner automotive busines card. small world
I hate intermittent Automotive issues also. Great video. Thumbs up
I was wondering about the computer seeing 11.7V on a running engine that should have much higher battery voltage? Is this just sensor returns?
I only saw that in the final production! Was wondering the same thing yesterday. This was filmed over a month ago with no issues since we touched it, so I have to call that a non issue. Maybe a smart charging system that hadn't kicked the alternator on yet? Good eye. I really don't have a better explanation for that.
I noticed that 11.75V on the ignition 1 circuit as well. It seems plausible to me that the PCM set the 5V reference code as a result of a failing battery. It looked like it was the OE battery under the hood, so it likely is due for replacement after 6 years of service. I figure the PCM flagged 5V reference 2 because it's the most critical to engine operation with the CKP sensor.
@Joseph Wash thinking about your comment and the battery itself could have been the issue here. I may be in agreement.
You know what I'm missing? A word from the customer on symptoms. Super important piece of information here that I didn't have and if it was a start up only check engine light with no symptoms...bam, that makes the most sense. If however it was while he was driving and he had driveability complaints, we are on a completely different path (the one I walked)
@@ScannerDanner i get this alot with the virus, its seems to be a glitch in the software.
I own this engine and it´s not direct injected.. but the injectors are very noisy
There is a brake pressure sensor in the ABS / ESP Module that senses hydraulic pressure, at the pedal there´s a pedal travel sensor... that senses how fast you press the pedal to assist you in emergency stop situations ( brake assist feature) and also covers the classic brake pedal switch function....
. at the brake booster there is a vacuum sensor that controls the electric vacuum pump ( turbo engines under boost can not create vacuum)
Welcome to GM freeze frame and failure records. As you discovered quite often the information you find stored in them has nothing to do with the system or circuit related to the DTC that triggered them. Freeze frame and failure records should contain information that is related to the DTC that triggered them or as you found out in this example the 5V ref showed 5V not a lower value which is what was needed to set the DTC, so it just leaves you talking to yourself saying this doesn’t make sense.
Be strong in the days to come brother!
Intermittent CEL. Story of my life.
Happy new year teacher
One of the instructors I had for electrical diagnostics told me there's no such thing as a intermittent concern because once you figure out how to duplicate it you can duplicate it every single time after that it's just a matter of finding the exact fault setting criteria...sounds good haha 😄
just a play on words right?
You could tape around your ring for additional protection.
This may be hack-ish, but if a car has 3 separate 5v circuits and the problem repeats itself, but only once a week or whatever... I would consider swapping sources. For example, if 5v ckt 2 has the issue and runs 3 sensors - move sensor A to 5v ckt 1, and sensor B to 5v ckt 3. See if the codes move to narrow down which sensor may be causing the issue.
These would be hard wired circuits. Each sensor has it's own 5v reference that is shared inside of the PCM board. What you are suggesting wouldn't be possible without butchering the harness and rewiring every sensor. Good thought though.
Happy New Year Paul & Son
go inspect for rub out points without touching or moving anything. that is where I'm good, finding a flat spot on perfect ball bearing or needle in haystack :))
**use inspection mirrors or bore/snake cameras!
we have alot of intermittent faults in he airline industry, it can be very frustrating to work a problem for two days and the fault suddenly disappears.
What if it shows up on the fly :)
@@tharakanuwan9986 :D
Your videos are very helpful!! Thank you for sharing, your a very smart dude!!👍🏻👍🏻
Had the same exact issue on that same model and year vehicle. The issue was the ecm. But in my case when u shut down the vehicle, and turn it back on, it would go into limp mode and flag that code, and went to limp mode. When i check data, 5 volts is ok. So i did that same test with scan tool monitoring the 5 volts, you can see the 5 volts ref 2 slowly climing up to 5 volts.
This is a great tip! Thank you for this information
@@ScannerDanner i had one hear in south Texas had to let run 1 hour turn off for 1-2 min. Hot soak . lost 5 volts and crank no start BAD ECM .
No gdi in that one bro - exclusively port injection. boost sensor and temp combo on RH side nead throttle body intake. This sensor is highly susceptible to heat soaking. It's a major pain in my butt with my Cruze. Same engine. Cables under intake manifold likely got disturbed because the intake was replaced. This is a common requirement because of the integrated pcv check valves.
I deal with these situations on at least a bi-weekly basis. These can be time consuming and frustrating. For me, it is a great feeling when you get to that aha moment. Just keep in mind guys that your time is valuable and you have to charge accordingly. At the same time you need to keep your customers informed, and explain in detail what you did.
Hi Scanner Danner, early this year I was having trouble with my 2005 Ford f150, was missing on cylinder5 i changed injector, coil, plug was still running rough. I checked the injector plug with a node light nothing. I traced wire back to ECM(computer) to see if I was getting power to injector #5, it showed no power. I ordered a new computer still didnt run right, I finally unwind the wire harness from #5 and found the wire was broke. Lol all that for a broke wire. Thanks for the help. Shes running fine now for a Ford
Thanks for your videos, I've learned so much thanks to you! i havent found a diesel case yet though, is there a particular reason? ;-);-)
Not many small diesel engines here in the US my friend
Whooo a New video! Thanks
Nice Video...havin troubles on a p0651 with my Alfa Romeo gt 2008, for over a year now. Intermittent, always appearing shortly After starting to drive. Car goes down in emergncy Mode. Over the holidays i cleaned all earth points i could see, hoping this helps...Futurewilltell.
Have a Good 2021 and keep on scanning and filming...greets from Germany
In your Data PID's it said (APP % 0). I think I also caught a glimpse of BPP (Brake not applied). It was in park/neutral also, if the customer could lend some insight that'd be great. If they went to put it in gear and depressed the pedal and it acted up it would be a reason to lift your foot for sure. Allowing the circuit to recover. Almost guaranteed there would be a "drivability/performance" issue being that not only the the crank sensor is on that circuit ( as you stated a lot of modern vehicles don't require the signal" but also the MAP/IAT.
and im working on a 2012 GMC Acadia with engine code P0641 and P2230. 5v ref signal 1 error cod. wish me luck
You found it thought right? This is the one you sent me?
@@ScannerDanner yes sr l. Should have a video out by next week
"INTERMITTENTS!" NEW DEFINITION FOR "I can't find it!"
I’ve had 2 intermittent issues this week, 1 was a coil connector on a v10 Ford that wasn’t clicked on. The other was a intermittent loss of power on the freeway, old school 7.3 powerstroke, had a aftermarket tune that was the issue, removed the tune and the problem went away.
Good job bro
Honda/Acura diagnosis videos! Common issues like SRS light from a dirty seat belt buckle.
Estoy esperando que traduzcas el libro para comprarlo 😠 54 años y bajando el ritmo😂👨🔧🔧🔩🚘
A few things about this video. First: The painting of the horses on Caleb's wall is on point. Second: I am the master of sharp focus and third: Why did I do that...that was stupid. I'm calling this the wiggle video.
I have a 12 Jeep Wrangler that stalls for the customer once every month or so and won’t restart for 15min. I put a OTC flight recorder on the OBD port hoping to see a PID that will give me a direction. If not I’m going to go through the TIPM
Intermittents. Have had them in the past. Only good thing about them is when you say "I gotcha!" Meaning you got it to show itself!
Happy 21 SD thanks for video good stuff consider a 4 channel pico on each 5 volt ref with mask and alarm keep em coming
Haven't seen the video yet but I just think in a Wiggle test and check harness friction points on hot areas and moving vibrating places just like your book says... (edit) after watching my thought is look for TSB's
Frustration for everyone, I guess the problem will eventually get worse (or clipping the wore up fixed it). It's taken me years to resolve intermittent issues on my own cars just because they were so intermittent that you could drive for months without an issue.
duramax with a can problem, what a shock, i find broken can wires in the harness on those often
That engine looks identical to what the opel astra and corsa use in Europe:)
that´s true.. I own an Astra with that engine..that drivetrain is used in many vehicles around the world. One of the last before GM sold Opel. The european counterpart to the Astra is the Chevy Cruze and the Encore is know as Opel Mokka in Europe. Technically pretty identical, just a little different design
@@bobl78 cool thats interesting
When I started to wear glasses I had that problem and I just went to get some thing to help me to not drop them and break them
Hope to see the fault with this so frustrating , never seen freeze frame data for the brake pedal sensor ?.
thanks for the video and happy new year to you both .
Frustrating when you give it your all and come up empty. Occasionally sent the borescope in to those difficult hard to see, and reach areas, with some success.
Thank you for another perfect video!!!
In addition to the 11.7V freeze frame voltage, APP is 0% but RPM is 1,300?? And the vehicle is open loop with both O2s the same mV. Looks to me like the vehicle has just been started.
Very good insight! I missed that. That explains the 11.7 volts better than I did in another comment. This legit could be from a weak battery as another suggested. I got to go back and find that comment now.
@@ScannerDanner .. there is a 2s delay after startup before the alternator is ramped up ... to prevent engine surge after startup.. I guess failed reference circuits set a DTC right away without any delay and in this case before the alternator kicks in. I would not think the battery is weak, 11.7v right after cranking with no alternator sounds reasonable, but having it checked does not hurt.. I`ve had a low battery not just once, even to the point of a no start and it never set any codes...
I noticed that data as well, might be on initial start up. Ftps was 0% also. GM is funny with using other sensors/circuits to determine some other sensor correlation and data, the info for the code is pretty in depth to, lmao. Not to mention GM's great scan tool and set up, again lmao. Witech is way ahead of the rest in my opinion. Anyway I don't think the circuit is the issue, something else that is correlated with it somehow. Just my thoughts though.
Lower driver corner on the turbo inner cooler
Pin fit issues cause a lot of intermittants. Also terminal fretting is a thing. I see a lot of intermittants as the Master Tech at a Nissan dealership. I've got good at them.
Hey Paul I had issues with the cel coming on for pressure differences and a 5volt ref . Couldn’t figure it out and there was an update for the software .. actually 3 updates for other things too . Check for an update and do them .
Nice, Good, perfect, excellent.
Hey scanner danner. My 02 civic is giving me this check engine light with codes p0325 said bank 1 knock sensor,no signal.
Next code: p1505 pcv valve air leakage but there are no vacuum leaks anywhere. I know is air is in the system it will give the p1505 code as it came up before and bleed the system and it went away and came back now with both codes that i listed above. What are your thoughts on these codes.? Your help really appreciated..
I'm trying to figure out how to look at my live data on my 98 k2500 5.7. No codes but still runs a little rough and I've cleaned and fixed everything!!! I bet if I could understaind the live data I would he able to see ware my problome is.
Intermittent wedding band wearing reference signal.
I had a gold medallion on a small chain around my neck. Leaning over a hot engine, the thing would get real hot. If I leaned back, I would get burned on my chest. No jewelry is a good rule.
Intermittent transmission sensor on my 2012 elantra touring Dan !
Magnet got tired ?
124,000
No codes no lights
Intermittent issues for 6 months
Had to figure it out myself after just slapping in a part
The Mechanics in Omaha
Need you training them !
😎✌️
did you fix it? Not sure what your question is. Thanks!
3.8Gb file issue suggests a FAT32 file system limitation. Is it internal storage on the Autel device or a USB stick/sd card? If it is external storage see if you have the option to format the volume as NTFS or exFAT to allow larger file sizes to be used.
Happy New Year to SD and family.
unfortunately this built in recorder has no options for any of this (storage location etc) I'm using Mobizen and it is better anyway as it records audio and is easier to sync. Thanks for the info! Makes sense
Thanks bro very good job keep up the good work
Happy New Year. Hopefully it’s not an omen of what’s to come. I’m already over it two days in the New Year. I had three things break and water line that started leaking. 😡
Anyone here that’s good with oscilloscopes near Santa Cruz ? To help with Porsche crank no start after engine swap and new cams. Lmk
The fix it needs removed. Mechanic sees that and tells the customer that is the problem.
I think some shops press that button and return the car to the customer... But, not before collecting their money.
Looks like it has had a gremlin attack from outer space some weird thing has occurred .
Wiring harness is possibly it , there again some body has been interfering with the wiring possibly the owner who knows .
Yeah those do suck lol. I noticed in the freeze frame data it said miles since last occurred was 257 miles. I would probably ask the client if they were driving on a rough road when it happened and see what they say. Given the loose harness situation may have been the case and a possible internally broken wire like on some of your older videos. I.e. with wheel speed sensor wires breaking internally that you found with a tug test.
Keep up the good work
Well to help out here that is not a common dtc or nothing common about anything with that dtc
That harness being out of the c clip is normal sometimes come from the factory with those loose so don’t worry about that to much
This engine is not GDI it’s port injected FYI
Injectors go into intake manifold
Now the only thing I’ve seen a vehicle like that act weird is underneath the battery tray there is a harness if I’m not mistaken & what happen with me was battery corrosion from old battery leaked into harness & made vehicle do some funny stuff can’t remember what dtc’s it set but it was my problem
Hope this helps Paul
GM TECH OUT...
Any of the 1.4 have already got a new intake manifold and valve cover under warranty so someone has been in there before
I'm a big fan of urs big man#fromsouthafrica
?: Paul, at the freeze frame data (~9:00 mark) the APP% shows 0 with throttle at 25% and revs at 1381RPM.
It struck me as odd to see the accelerator pedal position at zero. Is that to be expected?? Thx!!
Thank you for this video.
Per the Freeze Frame. I suspect the fault set shortly after a cold start/ cranking event. Based on Temps, APP, TPS and IGN B+ read 11.75v. I question if B+ at the ECM dropped low during cranking and caused the fault to set. I would think there would be associated faults due to low B+. Its a bummer not knowing the history/ story. Other than that, the PVC system is a common failure on the that Engine which requires R&R of the Intake/ Valave Cover. Some M.Y are under Factory Recall. Finding the missplaced harness at the intake raises a flag for potentially poor Workmanship issues.
On the hotline, I would stress the difference between "intermittant" and "random." Intermittent has a pattern. Even if it is every other Tuesday while turning left. Where random has no discernable pattern. Random sucks.