Hi there, from the Netherlands, I have a Cube EMTB and it has a tracker installed by the insurance company. It works over IoT and if they can’t find the stolen bike within 24 hours, they will redeem the original value 3 years after the purchase of it.
I placed an airtag in the battery compartment of my ebike. That way they can't access the tag if it gets stolen. Like your videos and very informative, keep up the good work.
@Above So Below it pings its location to the owner using signals from other phones that pass by. Tile also uses the same principle if you have an android device
With an alluminium frame and the battery above, did your testing show you it working ? I'm thinking of buying an airtag for this placement but fear that it would just not work cause signal gets blocked ...
I would love if destinations had heavy duty self-locking racks with surveillance. That way you could ride without carrying a lock and at the same time be assured that your bike is safe. I would pay for that service like I pay to park my car at a parking structure.
This 100%. Based off what the retired detective said above it makes me feel that there is a huge market out there for bike storage structures. Have it manned with people and cameras. Have it 24 hours. Add in a place to charge your bike or accessories, grab some coffee, a bite to eat and even sell bike accessories; well take my money please.
I have seen some parking structures which have an area to place the bike standing up using the pedals, since most electric bikes are quite heavy and won’t always be the steadiest with using front wheel only bike stands. Unfortunately these do take up more space since the bike is supposed to be using them through stable ground connections. However there is a very nice idea too that there is an adaptable interface for different countries electrical outlets which means if the bike is low on charge or you need to travel somewhere after locking up you can charge it and be able to get to your designation easily. Plus the posts have different front wheel height negotiators so the handlebars wouldn’t clash as much. I hope this helps.
My office building has had a secure bike room for years but for some reason only ever allocated one spot to one person… and only 10% of them use it. It sits empty virtually all the time.
@@digitalhen that's sad. My apartment building has a room for bikes, which would be great, except that it's just a room, with nowhere to chain the bikes. So I rather bring my ebike into my apartment.
I wish my town had bike lockers, which are about as secure as it gets. They have key locks, and being a box, the thief could spend a lot of time busting a lock, only to discover it's empty or has a Huffy in it; basically not worth their time. {sigh} Maybe someday.
My bike was stolen 10 days ago. These days the thieves know exactly what to do to get away with it. I had a GPS installed and had two locks and everything. The point is they’re using GPS jammers these days which screws up everything. So you can’t be at all confident if your bike is not going to be stolen.The police also doesn’t give a damn. Fortunately I had the insurance on the bike. I’m going to get a new bike in 10 days. But that is the story in China where I’m living as a foreigner.
would be nice if bike companies partnered up with Apple or other GPS companies and installed GPS tracking within the inside of the frame, so theives would have to cut the frame to get to it
I looked into airtags and I don't see it as being a great way of finding your bike. If anyone near your stolen bike has an iPhone or a Mac, iPad etc ... at some point they will receive a notification that says "airtag detected" and they can tap to disable the airtag. Airtag detected alerts are triggered when the item (bike) is away from its owner. This is done to protect a person in case the airtag has been hidden and is being used to track someone. For example, if an airtag that someone else owns is in your vicinity, you will be notified on your device that there's a tracking device near you. There is no way to stop that from happening. So the thief will either disable it via his phone or physically remove it from the bike. Kinda worthless if you ask me. Anyway, enjoyed this as well as many others. Thank you!!
Hi Chris-as always, great content. I liked how you actually called the police dept. to get their view on the matter. I'm in Melbourne, Australia, and I must say the police has been quite cooperative and effective in helping me recover my bike in the past (no location tracker on it at the time though). My ebike has a Bosh battery integrated in the tube (ie: the battery is 'part' of the frame and you need a key to remove it from the bike). There's more than enough room in the battery compartment in the tube to place an Airtag in there. My frame is aluminum and it doesn't appear to be blocking the bluetooth signal much-it probably has an impact on the bluetooth range, but it totally works when people are passing by within 10 meters of the bike. I think it's a good place for the tracker: to remove it you'd need to pry the battery compartment open, probably damaging the frame in the process. I also removed the speaker on the Airtag (very easy to do, it's a 10 minute process, you just need a thin sharp blade), to remove an avenue for the thief to locate where the tracker is on the bike by sound. I also have another ebike without an integrated battery in the frame, and for that one, I'm thinking about placing the Airtag behind the Bosh motor cover. I think there's enough room, but I still need to experiment further. Right now I'm looking for some 'this bike is geolocated' stickers like the ones you showed in the video, because I think they can act as great deterrent: I'd prefer my bike not getting stolen in the first place, rather than having to try and locate it. But I haven't been able to find any such stickers available for purchase so far (also I'd prefer them to not be too ugly since you want the sticker to be visible). Let us know if you come across any :)
This video has some great information and raises good points to be discussed. In Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, the Police cannot go anywhere except public places to recover stolen property, unless they a warrant. And bicycle theft has almost no penalties even if charges are laid, so it's a very low priority. The most common way bikes get recovered is when the serial number is recorded and the bike gets pawned. But high end bikes usually have the serial numbers ground out (disallowing a pawn deal) or, disreputable pawn shops don't record and report the serial numbers as required. My advice is to commute with a decent lower end bike and use two good locks. Keep your expensive bike for the weekend when you don't have to leave it anywhere. And if you do, good locks are your best friend.
Push for bike manufacturers to include a code or a finger print scanner to be able to use the bike. Or have some aftermarket device that has a scanner or a way to put a code.
Everything from the sampling, production, thoughts, the tone of your voice, the polite nature in which you spoke with the detectives... This was a wonderful, wholesome, and informative video and as a novice to biking worried about theft due to expense of these products... you answered all of my questions in one place in a wonderful way. Thank you. Keep it up and I hope for your future success on whatever platform you create. Cheers.
Steven ur comment was so nice from the tone of ur voice to the photo and the sensation ur photo gives me. U look so wonderful and wholesome 💕 I hope one day we can be together
Unfortunately my go to move is to use my cheaper bike when I'm leaving it in less safe areas (along with chains). But I think the real solution is better racks in better places at least for short stays.
If you need to have exact location in order for police to be involved then RF beacon would be the best bet. There is a company which installs trackers from regular cars to construction equipment and it's called automatrics mtrack from UK. They use GPS to get initial location and then once they get there they use RF beacon to locate exact position. So something like this could be developed for the bicycle industry.
This an interesting topic, and I think maybe "the answer" hasn't been totally discovered yet? I just bought an ebike and now I'm going back to work after being on the bench due to covid among other things. So, since I want to commute using my ebike, and will have to lock my bike up outside to our buildings wrought iron fence, I started looking into getting a couple of Abus bad ass U locks as well as a cover. While searching their locks I noticed that Abus makes alarm locks that emit a loud alarm if it detects movement on your bike and lock. So I thought maybe there was some similar device that could detect motion, but rather than blaring out an alarm, it would send a notice to your phone, so you could immediately check it out. It seemed very logical that something like this would exist, but I don't see any such device. Maybe a good idea?
Does your employer provide parking for cars? If so, request secure parking for your bike; maybe a spare room or closet, with a lock. Maybe something for others as well, to encourage more people to ride to work.
@@Korina42 Hi! It's a very different situation that what you might imagine. It's a small business, just my boss and me, and the music studio that he built, located on a quiet residential street in Brooklyn. There really is not enough space to store the bike inside. I really do need to secure the bike as best as possible outside the building during the day. Thanks for the input though. Much appreciated!
I have one of these Curve Bike light installed, lightweight, practical, GPS via built in sim, movement detection alarm, backed up by a superb free ios and android app, this thing is very unobtrusive people think its just a rear bike light.
I have been thinking about this as well, and will put an Air-tag in my bike to track as a back-up. Also, will use an Abus Bordo lock and I have the Kiox Display and use the Bosch electronic kill switch that disables the bike. I agree there are a lot of measures that one has to take to protect their bike. There are no easy answers. I also try to keep my bike with me if I am riding in a city area. Thanks for your on-going content.
My wife has a 2019 Raleigh with the Bosch power train. How would I research the Bosch Power Kill accessory that you refer to. We live in Tacoma Washington and it's only a matter of time before her bike gets jacked. But... %90 of her lockups are with the Kryptonite NY u-lock
You should ask Bosch to put GPS tracking on the PCB of their motors. So it can't be removed and you never have a dead battery. Would be nice if the controller checks if the circuit is not tampered with. Ow, and IoT and no GPS, so you don't need a subscription What you can even do is use other bike as relay stations, so if bikes are close they pick each other up and as soon as they have IoT connection they sent "who" they have seen to a server. So even bikes in total remote areas will be seen. For tracking a bike down you do not need real time information but a pattern is even useful. An other thing what is possible is that new chargers can only mate if the bike is connected to the internet (assuming that most bikes are being stolen without charger).
I'd like to see someone like Bosch cooperate with Apple to integrate AirTag / FindMy into their motors. In addition to using tracking, they could incorporate a kill-switch, so you could stop the bike from working if it was stolen.
Great topic! What you are paying for with a GPS tracker boils down to "peace of mind". Yes, having your bike notify you if it's moved provides a sense of real serenity and control since you KNOW where your bike is at any time. For both my R&M bikes I have installed a BikeTrax GPS tracker from Austrian company PowUnity. It runs off the e-bikes battery but also has a backup battery, that keeps it running in case the main battery is depleted or missing. The device is mounted behind the motor covers, they are plastic so they aren't interfering with the signal. Cell coverage is excellent in Europe and I can follow my bikes in near real time on my phone, the lag is just a few seconds. The company also has a insurance offer connected to the tracker. Really happy with them. As to the question if police really would interfere, I spoke to the local police and they say they would.
Thanks for the information ! I looked up Biketrax. Can you lock the bike with Biketrax application ? Their advertisement shows as but I'm still not sûr if it is possible.
I used to write the serial number on a sheet of paper along with my name and phone number and slip it into the handlebars. If my bike ever got stolen I could easily prove it was mine by showing the paper. I never had one stolen so never tested my theory. I currently have an ebike ordered and have been researching on how to prevent theft. All of the suggestions are certainly worth following. Register with 529 Shield, GPS tracker, recording the serial number, taking photos, TWO good/great quality locks, insurance (along with detailed descriptions and accessories left with them) and always trying to have your bike visible when you leave it appear to be the only answers to bike theft we currently have in Canada and the USA. Very sad.
I live in a University town, think VERY large University, 100,000 people at a football game... we have a HUGE problem with bike theft... it's like out of control. I had someone come inside my courtyard, completely fenced and gated, with a large picture window from my apartment facing it, and steal one of my bikes. I was furious! If I could have caught him/her I would have probably attacked them and tried to beat them to death... don't steal from me!!! I work really hard for what little I have!
Lots of good points raised in this video. Worth looking to the motorcycle sector where anti-theft tracking is more established. To work properly requires a combination of technologies e.g. GPS and radio frequency tracking and also an existing network of call centres where the tracking is done in conjunction with law enforcement. Typically these companies also sell tracking services for commercial vehicles in a range of sectors - HGV vehicles, farm and plant equipment etc. I pay an annual subscription of c.$180 for my motorcycle tracker service but it is dubious if this actually makes the insurance cheaper which is an issue.
Hello there! Enjoyed the video. We at Miloo implemented tracking devices that work in parallel with IoT and we were until this day always able to recover stolen bikes. Last week our favorite client go his 45 e-bike stolen in Geneva (Switzerland) and we could track the thief using it across the border in France ! Police won't really help in the process of recovering the bike so we just do it ourselves :-)
Does Miloo sell GPS devices or is it only app producers ? Can you link me where can i get Miloo GPS ? Do you have small versions for bicycles or only for cars ?
Very nice topic I think frame makers must embade trackers inside frame only figures print sensor must unlock feature with notification on designated mobile
In big cities the police just can't handle the number bike thefts. Here in Vancouver it's mostly drug addicts doing them. I can see a lot of really bad outcomes from people trying to recover their bikes with GPS. I say this as someone in the heat of the moment. Would take a few buddies and a baseball bat to recover my bike.
A lot of times, those drug addicts will have them at a chopshop or some dirty place with a bunch of other stolen stuff. There's a good chance that they go away from that location for a while to go steal more stuff in the day time and that's when you go and grab it
I have a couple of gps recievers from Garmin, and my experience is that they are almost all the time, atleast 10 mtr off. And when they are in buildings or between high buildings and in narrow streets it can be 100 mtr or more, or they don't work at all. Also you need a gsm card, because gps satelliets only send a signal, they can't recieve signals from the public, only the operator can sent signals to the satelliet. If you place the gps reciever next to an electric motor, you get other problems I think.
Although not an ebike, a university student in Ontario had his iphone stolen. He used "find my iphone" to locate it. He confronted the thief. The thief killed him. I think the same thing could easily happen over a much more valuable ebike. As badly as we want our property back, you really have to factor the risk to personal safety.
A tracker like the Apple AirTag that is brazed inside the frame of the bike may be a solution as there will be no need for anti-stalking features as you can't really put a bike inside someone's bag. The other solution is licence plates. RFID tags inside bike frames / bike frame numbers registered to users on a national or district register will mean bikes will be harder to sell for the thief thus deterring theft
I have a GPS cellular based tracker on my motorcycle. It is made by Invoxia and costs $159.00 with 2 years of cell service. It has a great app that allows you to see where you have been on your bike. It also will warn you if your bike is tipped or moved. It does this via your phone app. It has an internal rechargeable battery that lasts about 120 hours between charges. The GPS seems to be accurate to a few feet of the actual location. I am looking to get an e-bike and I will be using another Invoxia GPS tracker. I like your idea of putting on the underside of the fender.
I added an Air-tag to the underside of my saddle until I can find a better location for it. I’m just playing around with it really trying to find the time to mount in other locations (fenders) that don’t effect signal. Bike is currently at the shop and the number of hits with iPhones thst’ve come in contact with the bike is absolutely crazy.
GPS tracking in combination with insurance that also takes care of finding the bike is a good tool to minimize your own damage. Nevertheless, you have a lot of trouble. No bike, report to the police, communication with the insurance, ... Better would be a solution that prevents the theft, in which you take away the thief's motivation to steal. Here I find the approach of Bosch very promising. The motor only works with the original display. The motor is one of the most expensive parts on the bike. If it does not work, the bike is worthless to the thief. Neither can he use it himself nor can he sell it. The deactivation of the engine lock must therefore not be too simple. A solution could look like this. The bike owner can lock the motor, e.g. using a code, fingerprint or similar. The engine lock can only be reset by the manufacturer, ideally "over the air" after proof of ownership has been provided. Of course, the whole thing only works if the thief knows that the bike is protected in this way.
You mean the one that is missing whole states which are larger than France, like Texas? I hope it spreads, it's been shown that a proper registry combined with the Police using it reduces bike theft up to 50%
I'm in Edmonton, Canada. Using GPS, I tracked my stolen cell phone to a storage locker, then Stan's Exchange a few times. Police did nothing, but I confronted owner; he coughed up my phone..
With the market selling more and more expensive bikes there needs to be an industry protocol around theft. Etching bike frames, electronic tracking, etc.
I agree. But I don't think this will come from the bike manufacturers. Unfortunately they have a perverse incentive to continue the status quo, since a stolen bike = a new bike sale. Insurance companies might be better suited to introduce these measures. Something like "if you want to insure your bike for more than $1000, it must have a frame number, and you must have registered it with us".
As to ebikes, perhaps the lock should be inside the motor - when the bike is locked, motor won’t turn or be in “neutral” gear. An idea for Bosch, Brose, Shimano etc. to help prevent bike theft.
Removing the kiox or intuvia or whatever display renders the bike useless. Requiring a passcode to be input in the event of a replacement display being ordered should help.
Megalag channel on yt has done some good theft testing with airtags (sorry bout mentioning another channel, but I feel it's relevant). He used it on bikes, a key fob, and one other thing. He successfully recovered his bike with the help of the airtag and the police. Edit: wanted to add that in Vancouver B.C. they have a very good bike theft recovery program called project 529 that looks to be working well. They say bike theft is down like 42% since they started it. Hope the US gets going with something similar, but I won't hold my breath. Until then gps tracking is the best option I've found so far
While GPS trackers might offer some way of getting your bike back, I think I'd couple it with a good theft policy...any recommendations on insurance for ebikes?
You’re indirectly touching on one of my biggest obstacles to purchasing a fancy new e-bike - security. I ride bicycles for transportation purposes, and with little to no security in public spaces, there’s simply no way I’m gonna fork over the kind of dough a quality e-bike requires. The best insurance in the world can’t cover everything. Give customers safe, secure places to lock their bikes in public and at work and watch sales take off!
One of the issue with any electronic portabke device is the need to plug it regularly on a power source to recharge the battery, which if you have multiple devices becomes a problem... For e-bike with Bosch motor, what is a bit disappointing, is that to my knowledge Bosch doesn’t yet provide any option to have USB-C plugs that would be wired directly to the bike battery. It would be great that Bosch integrate 2 USB-C plugs in the front near the Intuvia console, and allow bike manufacturers to connect 2 more (in the back of the bike) to be able to add accessories. From there, it would be possible to connect GoPro camera / dashcam and smartphone in the front, and a GoPro / dashcam and GPS tracker on the back that would be always recharged by the bike battery 🙂.
I was thinking about using my old Apple Watch with cel service. There will be the monthly expense. I have a carbon frame so I am wondering if I can find space in the frame and it not block the signal. Then the work of taping into the power to keep it charging. I think using find my iPhone it would track well. I also wonder if you could call the watch and give a audible message. “This bike has been GPS tracked. Bring it outside and walk away.” (It may keep you from having a confrontation.) My wife and I have 4 ebikes, one is very pricey that would warrant doing something like that. That is if I ever needed to leave it out of my sight.
I think you are spot on, especially about the emotional attachment skewing your perspective on how valuable something really is in the grand scheme of your whole life. Since getting an e-bike stolen a few years ago. we don't take our e-bikes places where we would need to park them - at all - we go in pairs and someone stays with the bikes. It sucks. My stolen bike was an expensive loss, but I didn't claim on the insurance, because your insurance goes up, so you end up paying for it anyway and more. I've thought about apple airtags, that's about as far as I would go, but like you say, to what end? Your bike is in the crappy part of town, are you really going to go get it? Or, it's on a van to a different state or even country, so now what?
@@showboat4869 You need insurance to have a mortgage, and I see it as coverage for total loss like fire or flood. I may be wrong, but I thought if you claim for stolen item your risk goes up and your premiums increase (as do your neighbours) - it could be a myth.
Great topic, but rather than relying on GPS tracking for stolen bike recovery, I would like to see reasonably priced replacement insurance. I have checked on insurance and the cost is more than I pay for my car.
I continue to be impressed with your videos. Great content, good thoughts on bike culture and ownership. Keep it up. Also, I am tonk of getting a Riese&Mueller Supercharger 2 with the RX chip precisely for this kind of thing. But it is tricky to find info on how it actually works.
Very good discussion. In terms of the technology, a tracker with a microphone and possibly a camera as well that will allow the owner to monitor with a simple txt message would be a good feature. The use of geo fences is good to reduce false alarms (as long as they are set really small). Proximity sensing with some sort of smart software to determine if someone is cutting the lock, ie spending a lot of time very close to the bike. ALso having a speaker so that you could announce... "ok the thief with the red trousers... im actually watching you and someone is about 10 seconds from you with a machette"... sometimes bluff works lol, especially when its not expected. A high intensity 110 dBa sounder will draw a lot of attention too. I think a lot of advances can be made by manufacturers to improve the security of the tracker and its reliability. One weak link is the antenna as you mentioned. However, I do have an idea for a stealth antenna that is actually part of the bike and you have not way of knowing where it is. this will allow a device with a massive battery resource to be hidden inside the frame - eg the saddle tube and a high security stopper plug preventing it being removed even if the saddle is taken off. I am going to discuss this latter idea with a bike manufacturer to see if they can find a way of implimenting my idea quite simply and chgeaply. This could get us a lot further down the road in beating these scumbags
Very interesting and important topic. I think there might be other ways to make this work. Not sure what that is but somehow just shutting the bike down and unusable seems to me to be a better way.
Bosch seems to be offering this with their new connected displays, but it would be nice if they could make the bike actually not pedallable as opposed to just not being able to turn on.
Since Bosch is the leader in sensors and motors, maybe an internal motor shutdown or internal lock that can be activated over cellular and reactivated by an authorized Bosch dealer. Just a thought
Riese and Müller offers gps tracking in selected European countries for their bikes. It works as an insurance as well. They will track your bike on your behalf. And if they can’t recover it within a certain period (3 days I think), then they will replace your bike. A good deal I think. It adds piece of mind.
I also have a van moof with gps tracking, at least in Amsterdam, bike thieves leave van moofs alone just because they know the bike hunters will pursue theme. So it is a deterrent indeed.
Nike several years ago sold running shoes with a sensor inside....also you had to download an app to see your trace. I think that little sensor; its size is like a coin; you can put it inside bicycle handlebars. so you can have an idea where the thief use to ride you bike. And it´s cheaper and smaller than anything nowadays.
Large PDs aren’t going to care at all. Most metropolitan police officers are committed to revenue enforcement (writing tickets for fines). Detectives are committed to injury crimes or large profile crimes. A small town might offer minimal assistance if you have it pinpointed and they want the thief for other infractions. I’d have no qualms about recovering my own property while it is in transit or steal it back if the thief leaves it in public. Trouble is, bike thieves steal for a fix, then the bike is transported and warehoused for re-sale. It may also just be broken down for parts. Best to make the bike so permanently ugly it isn’t re-sellable.
In Seattle where I used to live, the SPD didn’t even prosecute or investigate Grand Theft Auto. That’s a little reality check on how helpful an urban police department is likely to be recovering a bicycle. Prevention isn’t just key, it’s everything.
THANK YOU for this discussion,,,I live in Mesa, AZ and for the last few years have been determined to try to dump my car for daily use anyway. I could not afford an ebike yet and miracles of miracles I found a used Gazelle NL C7 HMB 2017 for what I thought was ridiculously low…. I am a past triathlete/bike nut, worked at bike shops so figured if the battery was good the rest seemed pretty fixable/mechanical. It was my dream bike and even the powder blue color I was dreaming of! (I am an artist and writing a book so poor but color and design important to me…also a tech nerd so really what better then an ebike?) This bike had only 205 miles on the odometer! So I bought it and luckily a local ebike store sells Gazelle and they fixed a number of things (I was freaked out I could not adjust the brakes,,,,, I had no idea they were hydraulic assist!) and it still was a huge bargain. (I still was very scared to spend the money but thought it was divine intervention I saw it listed ….serendipity but then in the middle of the night I had a brainstorm that I could sell my Mountain bike to more then pay for it! That I did within a few hours of listing it and gave away so much stuff I would no longer need like Stans No Tubes paraphernalia, shock pump, etc etc the buyer gave me more then I was asking! Sorry for the TMI just the back story that I am thrilled to have the Gazelle) so I have spent an inordinateamouny of time finding baskets, panniers, adjusting ergometrics etc…and spending time researching locks and anti-theft strategies. THANK YOU for ask the suggestions! I had no idea Veloassurance existed so I have a replacement policy, and still working on getting locks but ordered the heaviest integral chain to the older model Axa Café lock…(from England!) and will consider a newer U-Lock too….and been thinking long and hard about the GPS tracking issue. I ordered an AirTag and in the Gazelle users group there was info that others had bought a silicone case for it (like $6) and very good mounting tape and slide out the battery, then tape the silicone side of case inside the battery compartment on the top or side I think there is room for it with the battery once replaced. Mine is under the rack so will see how that works. So wanted to tell you about that, and another issue I have discovered: not only does iAirtag notify someone if they have an iPhone that they are being tracked, after a specific amount of time (2 days?) the AirTag begins to beep! So if you can recover it somehow or get the police to go after it it needs to be soon before they are alerted! I also will put the stickers on. So I think I am going to put it on ….still thinking about it…I very much appreciated the info about the police dept ! Good points! I will call them tomorrow here and see what their policy is. I know with the new Apple “precise” location a signal will be more specific down to apt etc. Apparently it is room specific ! Thank you for all these videos I certainly Learned a lot about ebikes! I go to CA a lot so hopefully will stop by sometime. Thank you thank you thank you! Cheers Jaime
PS my homeowners would not add my bike under replacement unless I had some kind of written estimate of a new comparable model to assess current replacement cost. Neither The local bike store nor Gazelle would put anything in writing to estimate the cost so had to go with Velosurance to insure it, and added on the panniers etc too. (By the way do you carry PoCampo bags? They are amazing and I actually first was introduced to Gazelle by the founders blog! There are bags for kids, pannier/backpacks etc etc unisex and the most wonderful women’s (feminine anyway) bags ! Including a beautiful well made handle bar bag whose Velcro handlebar straps and rings fold away when used as a purse! And there is a pocket for the purse shoulder strap to pack away when on the handlebars! The company is very ethical, donates portions of profits to provide bikes to kids in Africa and other Non profits. The patterns of the material are changed yearly for the feminine prints and the engaged customers give input on which colors and patterns are used! Maybe you already do but these bags are just wonderful!
Hi. I'm in the UK but the challenges remain the same. GPS may be part of the answer. But only part. Firstly, there aren't that many places you can hide a GPS on a bike. Then you have the problem that GPS signal is sapped by metal. Not good on an all metal bike. Really, for the cost of electric bikes I think manufacturers should step up more. They have the money and R&D departments to do much better than there doing now. Until then I think cyclist are left vulnerable. Big heavy locks and chains are easily cut now. Taking a wheel or seat post off when you park up is not practical. There is no easy answer. But I do think manufacturers should step up a lot more.
E bike fire and theft insurance. 3000 dollar bike 200 dollars a year. You can add liability and accident coverage as well but cost way more. Pedal power is what I used. I'm not advertising it's only a suggestion.
As the owner of a top of the range R&M supercharger and long distance touring in foreign countries, this in my mind, puts my bike at greater risk of being stolen and i have a Power unity tracker plugged directly into the Bosch motor, which features a motion alarm linked to the excellent free phone app apart from the fact that it won "Excellent Product Design" at the 2021 German Design Award , the tracker after the first year , is a reasonable pay as you go ,£3.00/$4.20 a month which is better for me when planning a tour, as for insurance purposes one would have thought that if you have stand alone bike insurance it would reduce the costs,? however i have my bike on my household contents insurance which is inclusive and makes no difference
I am having a hard time finding information on the Swiss Tracking devices. All sites seem to show the same stock footage and they proceed to dispense legal advice. Thought I appreciate the thought, I am looking for a video that shows me the actual device, when it comes to legal advice, I rather get it elsewhere.
Ending bike theft is number 1. All they need is a transponder that sounds so you can track the bike and it gives off a sound and direct location. Police need a device in their cars that would alert them to stolen bikes as this transponder gives off that info to them. So as a bike goes by the police get a signal with your registered info so they know there is a problem. This would end the tracking issue and fear of a problem getting it back.
I also would love to learn more. I currently have a sticker that says my bike is tracked by GPS, but obviously it's not. If you hear of any reliable tracking devices good for bikes please let us know.
Its been long known that the best alarm system for your house is the sign in the front yard saying you have a system even if you don't. Maybe the stickers on your bike would have the same effect. Couple that with in expensive bike alarm ($16.00 0n Amazon) might just make the bad guy move on to an easier target.
I have a VanMoof. The bike hunters will find the bike but then will call the cops if they feel there is any danger. The only reason I haven’t bought the Homage is because of the theft fear and lack of tracking. I don’t think the air tags will be a viable option until there is a software update.
Hi, the French company Invoxia makes great trackers: I get notified when the bike inclination changes, if it moves and I can follow it if stollen. No subscription for 3 years then it’s something like 10€/year. It uses the networks LoRa, SigFox, wifi (wps)and Bluetooth to track. Works in Belgium and France, you could ask them if it’s a technical limitation or if it could work in the US with the right commercial partnership ;-) PS: thanks for all you videos!
PS2: only one model available in the US, have that one (but it’s not waterproof) It’s wrapped and tapped/hidden on my bike. Recharge every 4-6 months. Ask them for their smaller waterproof “pet” tracker
Hi William! Thanks for the shout out. I just stumbled onto this video today and was wondering if anyone had heard of us. Glad to hear you've been enjoying our Bike Tracker! We're always delighted to hear positive feedback from the community.
YES MORE GPS BIKES. The only closest thing I’ve found is Boomerang or the red jump bikes. It was a low step bike with anti theft nuts. It wasn’t as powerful since it was a 250w front hub motor but it got the job done
@Propel what is Riese Muller doing with their service, did they launch it or not? There seems to be very little info about it but you can configure the bikes with that specific chip for tracking, but I didn't find any info on how it works, is it hidden, can be easily removed, is it effective or not.
The R&M RX is even limited within Europe, (Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg & I assume Germany of course). PowUnity Biketrax is one to keep an eye on. It is Europe wide (27 Countries) and uses the 2G mobile network which is still good until at least 2025
For me no. If you’re relying on GPS then the bike has already been stolen obviously. And bikes aren’t like cars. A bike could be stripped for parts extremely quickly and in that case a tracker has no use. We need secure, indoor bike parking.
@Dave InMSP Certainly I don’t leave my Riese & Muller bike anywhere. I use my Dutch bike which cost me about £600. I would still be upset to lose it, but I have to ride something. And I want to ride a bike that’s still well made and durable. And it’s not a flashy target either. I think it’s a good compromise.
@Dave InMSP Yeah any bike theft will hurt if you have an emotional attachment to the bike. But I still want to ride something that’s high quality enough where I’m enjoying it and I know it’s sustainable. Cheap bikes aren’t sustainable.
I don't think Police will ever be chasing after a single stolen bike, it's just not a smart use of resources. They will try and find serial offenders/gangs to do busts on however and end up with a big stash of stolen bikes at once, that's how a bike of mine was found (always make sure you properly register your bike so it can be returned in case that happens!) As a side note, maybe the Vanmoof system is actually working, as anecdotally there's some vanmoofs I've seen locked up for weeks in the same places with some relatively weak locks and they haven't been stolen yet. I used to do Uber Eats with my Ebike but thankfully now work for a company that provides their own cargo bikes so don't have to worry so much about theft!
I got a tip from a sheriff’s deputy of where to look for my daughter’s stolen bike. I followed his tip, identified her bike then called the sheriff office requesting help recovering my property that was in plain site. A deputy came out, I had enough information to verify I was the owner, including the spare frame lock key. Of course the property owner claimed someone else brought the bike to his yard and gave the deputy his address. The missing front basket was on that property so luckily I was able to fully recover her bike, and am grateful for the second deputy’s assistance but bike theft isn’t generally a priority. The first deputy saw a bike resembling my daughters’ on his beat. Long story short, when meth-heads move into the neighborhood anything not tied down sprouts legs and LE just shrugs and recommends installing cameras. My daughter has learned that locks aren’t there for decoration.
We owned a cheap kinda crappy ebike called a Flash that had a touch screen & GPS built into the frame. When the bike was moved by someone without the PIN, it would start chirping super loud and at the same time alert the owner through a phone app. Sold the bike because it was junk, but it indicates that there are solutions that these mfgs could build onto the bikes. It seems like this could also fire off a Cafe lock or internal motor lock-out
I used to work in a bike shop and it happened almost every week that someone would come in just having found their bike gone at a rack, I'm in London for context. In the end I started recommending Brompton's...if you don't need to leave it outside its a lot less likely to be stolen. In the end I feel crime would be solved for good if the people committing the acts had better options...
Suppose my local police will be willing to track and locate my stolen ebike, what system would work the best for that? They have the resources to "stake out" a building to find a bike theft ring. Even the "top three" methods...I dont have the time or resources to buy and try a handful of methods.
All situations are different, the chance that they will stake out for a e-bike is tiny.... it is not worth it. You would like to have a system that sends as much data as possible, doesn't even have to be real time. maybe the thief (or new owner) lives in a large building in the city, with all reflections you will never find your bike. But after a while you will see patterns, like someone going to school or work, where the bike is parked outside. If find the bike and you know the bike will be moved from that location between 17:05 - 17:20 police might be willing to interested to invest 15 minutes for catching a thief.
Apples Air Tags work 100%. They are cheap to buy and straightforward to hide on bikes. I have them installed on my family's 4 e-bikes and their bike keys. The best idea is don't leave bikes where they can be stolen. Two of our e-bikes are Tinkers, and they go everywhere, including shops, bars, offices & accommodation. They are never left alone outside. If I'm not allowed to bring the Tinkers inside, I don't go to these unsurporting places. It's not like millions of bikes out there, except you know which country has millions of bikes.
I don't think GPS is the answer. Bike thieves often sell the bike for parts, breaking the bike up into parts can be done within minutes. It's worth it to recover a bike, but are you really going to GPS tag all the individual parts and chase them all down? Probably not. Paid, secure, weatherproof bike lockers are the best way to challenge the automobile as a legit, reliable daily urban transport choice for those people without indoor storage options everywhere they go. These bike lockers exist today and offer app-based access, integration with city transit cards, and are not terribly priced. Only problem for entrepreneurs is the expense/availability of the tiny plots of ground-level land needed to install them, so we are stuck waiting on cities to grant some land or just install the lockers themselves and potentially collect money (but cities lack that entrepreneurial instinct to turn a small profit). Frustrating when so much of our cities is dedicated to car parking
You know how chainsaw chaps have a layer of loose fibers that tangle up and jam up chainsaws? I wonder if you could wrap that around a bike lock to tangle and jam angle grinders
I think police for the most part could be interested. The average e-bike is worth several thousands of dollars. That is a serious felony, and it might be worthwhile solving the crime. A typical cheap bike might not rise to felony levels, though I am not an attorney. FWIW I think all evokes should have built in tracking.
The police should sell gps tags for bikes and use a bigger more accurate and expensive tracker. If you have to register your bike in the first place, why not make it traceable by cops?
Hi there, from the Netherlands, I have a Cube EMTB and it has a tracker installed by the insurance company. It works over IoT and if they can’t find the stolen bike within 24 hours, they will redeem the original value 3 years after the purchase of it.
That sounds really nice, could you tell me your insurance company?
@@handmadeisbetter ANWB Verzekeringen
Hoi, hoe heet de tracker? Ik kan het niet vinden op de ANWB website.
Brilliant Country many such good ideas there!
LoRa based? I'm thinking about getting one like that, the battery life on them is amazing (I'm guessing you don't have to keep charging it?)
I placed an airtag in the battery compartment of my ebike. That way they can't access the tag if it gets stolen. Like your videos and very informative, keep up the good work.
@Above So Below it pings its location to the owner using signals from other phones that pass by. Tile also uses the same principle if you have an android device
With an alluminium frame and the battery above, did your testing show you it working ? I'm thinking of buying an airtag for this placement but fear that it would just not work cause signal gets blocked ...
@@Innaething9 my signal got blocked. I know I’m dumb
I would love if destinations had heavy duty self-locking racks with surveillance. That way you could ride without carrying a lock and at the same time be assured that your bike is safe. I would pay for that service like I pay to park my car at a parking structure.
This 100%. Based off what the retired detective said above it makes me feel that there is a huge market out there for bike storage structures. Have it manned with people and cameras. Have it 24 hours. Add in a place to charge your bike or accessories, grab some coffee, a bite to eat and even sell bike accessories; well take my money please.
I have seen some parking structures which have an area to place the bike standing up using the pedals, since most electric bikes are quite heavy and won’t always be the steadiest with using front wheel only bike stands. Unfortunately these do take up more space since the bike is supposed to be using them through stable ground connections. However there is a very nice idea too that there is an adaptable interface for different countries electrical outlets which means if the bike is low on charge or you need to travel somewhere after locking up you can charge it and be able to get to your designation easily. Plus the posts have different front wheel height negotiators so the handlebars wouldn’t clash as much. I hope this helps.
My office building has had a secure bike room for years but for some reason only ever allocated one spot to one person… and only 10% of them use it. It sits empty virtually all the time.
@@digitalhen that's sad. My apartment building has a room for bikes, which would be great, except that it's just a room, with nowhere to chain the bikes. So I rather bring my ebike into my apartment.
I wish my town had bike lockers, which are about as secure as it gets. They have key locks, and being a box, the thief could spend a lot of time busting a lock, only to discover it's empty or has a Huffy in it; basically not worth their time. {sigh} Maybe someday.
My bike was stolen 10 days ago. These days the thieves know exactly what to do to get away with it. I had a GPS installed and had two locks and everything. The point is they’re using GPS jammers these days which screws up everything. So you can’t be at all confident if your bike is not going to be stolen.The police also doesn’t give a damn. Fortunately I had the insurance on the bike. I’m going to get a new bike in 10 days. But that is the story in China where I’m living as a foreigner.
Bike insurance is the only way.
@@stevemuzak8526 There is another way. It's called rule of law.
would be nice if bike companies partnered up with Apple or other GPS companies and installed GPS tracking within the inside of the frame, so theives would have to cut the frame to get to it
Its already oem used by some companies in NL.(oa Gazelle and Sparta)
I looked into airtags and I don't see it as being a great way of finding your bike. If anyone near your stolen bike has an iPhone or a Mac, iPad etc ... at some point they will receive a notification that says "airtag detected" and they can tap to disable the airtag. Airtag detected alerts are triggered when the item (bike) is away from its owner. This is done to protect a person in case the airtag has been hidden and is being used to track someone. For example, if an airtag that someone else owns is in your vicinity, you will be notified on your device that there's a tracking device near you. There is no way to stop that from happening. So the thief will either disable it via his phone or physically remove it from the bike. Kinda worthless if you ask me. Anyway, enjoyed this as well as many others. Thank you!!
Hi Chris-as always, great content. I liked how you actually called the police dept. to get their view on the matter. I'm in Melbourne, Australia, and I must say the police has been quite cooperative and effective in helping me recover my bike in the past (no location tracker on it at the time though).
My ebike has a Bosh battery integrated in the tube (ie: the battery is 'part' of the frame and you need a key to remove it from the bike). There's more than enough room in the battery compartment in the tube to place an Airtag in there. My frame is aluminum and it doesn't appear to be blocking the bluetooth signal much-it probably has an impact on the bluetooth range, but it totally works when people are passing by within 10 meters of the bike.
I think it's a good place for the tracker: to remove it you'd need to pry the battery compartment open, probably damaging the frame in the process.
I also removed the speaker on the Airtag (very easy to do, it's a 10 minute process, you just need a thin sharp blade), to remove an avenue for the thief to locate where the tracker is on the bike by sound.
I also have another ebike without an integrated battery in the frame, and for that one, I'm thinking about placing the Airtag behind the Bosh motor cover. I think there's enough room, but I still need to experiment further.
Right now I'm looking for some 'this bike is geolocated' stickers like the ones you showed in the video, because I think they can act as great deterrent: I'd prefer my bike not getting stolen in the first place, rather than having to try and locate it. But I haven't been able to find any such stickers available for purchase so far (also I'd prefer them to not be too ugly since you want the sticker to be visible).
Let us know if you come across any :)
I hope things continue to improve on this front
This video has some great information and raises good points to be discussed. In Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, the Police cannot go anywhere except public places to recover stolen property, unless they a warrant. And bicycle theft has almost no penalties even if charges are laid, so it's a very low priority. The most common way bikes get recovered is when the serial number is recorded and the bike gets pawned. But high end bikes usually have the serial numbers ground out (disallowing a pawn deal) or, disreputable pawn shops don't record and report the serial numbers as required.
My advice is to commute with a decent lower end bike and use two good locks. Keep your expensive bike for the weekend when you don't have to leave it anywhere. And if you do, good locks are your best friend.
Push for bike manufacturers to include a code or a finger print scanner to be able to use the bike. Or have some aftermarket device that has a scanner or a way to put a code.
Everything from the sampling, production, thoughts, the tone of your voice, the polite nature in which you spoke with the detectives... This was a wonderful, wholesome, and informative video and as a novice to biking worried about theft due to expense of these products... you answered all of my questions in one place in a wonderful way. Thank you. Keep it up and I hope for your future success on whatever platform you create.
Cheers.
Steven ur comment was so nice from the tone of ur voice to the photo and the sensation ur photo gives me. U look so wonderful and wholesome 💕 I hope one day we can be together
Unfortunately my go to move is to use my cheaper bike when I'm leaving it in less safe areas (along with chains). But I think the real solution is better racks in better places at least for short stays.
It is unfortunate, but I have hope
If you need to have exact location in order for police to be involved then RF beacon would be the best bet. There is a company which installs trackers from regular cars to construction equipment and it's called automatrics mtrack from UK. They use GPS to get initial location and then once they get there they use RF beacon to locate exact position. So something like this could be developed for the bicycle industry.
We do need better tech solutions for this problem. I have had 2 much-loved bikes stolen, and it sucks!!
I would love to hear more about this topic.👍
I’d like some form of C-4 packed under the seat as a deterrent.
Thanks.
I have seen that VanMoof movie. I do not know, give me a good lock and a safe place to park it. Perhaps I am old fashioned.
This an interesting topic, and I think maybe "the answer" hasn't been totally discovered yet? I just bought an ebike and now I'm going back to work after being on the bench due to covid among other things. So, since I want to commute using my ebike, and will have to lock my bike up outside to our buildings wrought iron fence, I started looking into getting a couple of Abus bad ass U locks as well as a cover. While searching their locks I noticed that Abus makes alarm locks that emit a loud alarm if it detects movement on your bike and lock. So I thought maybe there was some similar device that could detect motion, but rather than blaring out an alarm, it would send a notice to your phone, so you could immediately check it out. It seemed very logical that something like this would exist, but I don't see any such device. Maybe a good idea?
It's really annoying that such a device doesn't rly exist yet
That's exactly what I have been looking for and can't find nothing!.
Does your employer provide parking for cars? If so, request secure parking for your bike; maybe a spare room or closet, with a lock. Maybe something for others as well, to encourage more people to ride to work.
@@Korina42 Hi! It's a very different situation that what you might imagine. It's a small business, just my boss and me, and the music studio that he built, located on a quiet residential street in Brooklyn. There really is not enough space to store the bike inside. I really do need to secure the bike as best as possible outside the building during the day. Thanks for the input though. Much appreciated!
@@musicmann1967 Fair enough. Last suggestion; is there room for a wall mount?
I have one of these Curve Bike light installed, lightweight, practical, GPS via built in sim, movement detection alarm, backed up by a superb free ios and android app, this thing is very unobtrusive people think its just a rear bike light.
PRoblem is that somebody can steal just a light
I have been thinking about this as well, and will put an Air-tag in my bike to track as a back-up. Also, will use an Abus Bordo lock and I have the Kiox Display and use the Bosch electronic kill switch that disables the bike. I agree there are a lot of measures that one has to take to protect their bike. There are no easy answers. I also try to keep my bike with me if I am riding in a city area. Thanks for your on-going content.
It's unfortunate that we have to worry about this stuff. It will be interesting to see how the airtags work out for bikes
My wife has a 2019 Raleigh with the Bosch power train. How would I research the Bosch Power Kill accessory that you refer to. We live in Tacoma Washington and it's only a matter of time before her bike gets jacked. But... %90 of her lockups are with the Kryptonite NY u-lock
You should ask Bosch to put GPS tracking on the PCB of their motors. So it can't be removed and you never have a dead battery.
Would be nice if the controller checks if the circuit is not tampered with.
Ow, and IoT and no GPS, so you don't need a subscription
What you can even do is use other bike as relay stations, so if bikes are close they pick each other up and as soon as they have IoT connection they sent "who" they have seen to a server. So even bikes in total remote areas will be seen. For tracking a bike down you do not need real time information but a pattern is even useful.
An other thing what is possible is that new chargers can only mate if the bike is connected to the internet (assuming that most bikes are being stolen without charger).
Would be awesome if Bosch& Apple would work together.
Unfortunately it won't happen.
A giant doesn't corporate with another giant.
@@holyfox94 Bosch already have an Apple (and Android) app for their motors, they just have to add an extra feature.
@@unreliablenarrator6649 Thanks! that sounds good. At least very promising.
I'd like to see someone like Bosch cooperate with Apple to integrate AirTag / FindMy into their motors. In addition to using tracking, they could incorporate a kill-switch, so you could stop the bike from working if it was stolen.
BOSCH POW Utility works well
Great topic!
What you are paying for with a GPS tracker boils down to "peace of mind". Yes, having your bike notify you if it's moved provides a sense of real serenity and control since you KNOW where your bike is at any time.
For both my R&M bikes I have installed a BikeTrax GPS tracker from Austrian company PowUnity. It runs off the e-bikes battery but also has a backup battery, that keeps it running in case the main battery is depleted or missing. The device is mounted behind the motor covers, they are plastic so they aren't interfering with the signal. Cell coverage is excellent in Europe and I can follow my bikes in near real time on my phone, the lag is just a few seconds. The company also has a insurance offer connected to the tracker. Really happy with them.
As to the question if police really would interfere, I spoke to the local police and they say they would.
Thanks for the information ! I looked up Biketrax. Can you lock the bike with Biketrax application ? Their advertisement shows as but I'm still not sûr if it is possible.
Can you tell me about the insurance offer a little bit more if you know about it, please ?
I used to write the serial number on a sheet of paper along with my name and phone number and slip it into the handlebars. If my bike ever got stolen I could easily prove it was mine by showing the paper. I never had one stolen so never tested my theory.
I currently have an ebike ordered and have been researching on how to prevent theft. All of the suggestions are certainly worth following. Register with 529 Shield, GPS tracker, recording the serial number, taking photos, TWO good/great quality locks, insurance (along with detailed descriptions and accessories left with them) and always trying to have your bike visible when you leave it appear to be the only answers to bike theft we currently have in Canada and the USA. Very sad.
I live in a University town, think VERY large University, 100,000 people at a football game... we have a HUGE problem with bike theft... it's like out of control. I had someone come inside my courtyard, completely fenced and gated, with a large picture window from my apartment facing it, and steal one of my bikes. I was furious! If I could have caught him/her I would have probably attacked them and tried to beat them to death... don't steal from me!!! I work really hard for what little I have!
Sorry to hear.. what town is that? In the USA?
@@MtbAddict109 Gainesville, Florida, USA... University of Florida
Lots of good points raised in this video. Worth looking to the motorcycle sector where anti-theft tracking is more established. To work properly requires a combination of technologies e.g. GPS and radio frequency tracking and also an existing network of call centres where the tracking is done in conjunction with law enforcement. Typically these companies also sell tracking services for commercial vehicles in a range of sectors - HGV vehicles, farm and plant equipment etc. I pay an annual subscription of c.$180 for my motorcycle tracker service but it is dubious if this actually makes the insurance cheaper which is an issue.
Hello there! Enjoyed the video. We at Miloo implemented tracking devices that work in parallel with IoT and we were until this day always able to recover stolen bikes. Last week our favorite client go his 45 e-bike stolen in Geneva (Switzerland) and we could track the thief using it across the border in France ! Police won't really help in the process of recovering the bike so we just do it ourselves :-)
Does Miloo sell GPS devices or is it only app producers ? Can you link me where can i get Miloo GPS ? Do you have small versions for bicycles or only for cars ?
You have the added bonus of hunting down miscreants. Always a invigorating activity.🙂
Very nice topic I think frame makers must embade trackers inside frame only figures print sensor must unlock feature with notification on designated mobile
In big cities the police just can't handle the number bike thefts. Here in Vancouver it's mostly drug addicts doing them. I can see a lot of really bad outcomes from people trying to recover their bikes with GPS. I say this as someone in the heat of the moment. Would take a few buddies and a baseball bat to recover my bike.
A lot of times, those drug addicts will have them at a chopshop or some dirty place with a bunch of other stolen stuff. There's a good chance that they go away from that location for a while to go steal more stuff in the day time and that's when you go and grab it
I have a couple of gps recievers from Garmin, and my experience is that they are almost all the time, atleast 10 mtr off.
And when they are in buildings or between high buildings and in narrow streets it can be 100 mtr or more, or they don't work at all.
Also you need a gsm card, because gps satelliets only send a signal, they can't recieve signals from the public, only the operator can sent signals to the satelliet.
If you place the gps reciever next to an electric motor, you get other problems I think.
Thanks for the additional feedback
Although not an ebike, a university student in Ontario had his iphone stolen. He used "find my iphone" to locate it. He confronted the thief. The thief killed him. I think the same thing could easily happen over a much more valuable ebike. As badly as we want our property back, you really have to factor the risk to personal safety.
A tracker like the Apple AirTag that is brazed inside the frame of the bike may be a solution as there will be no need for anti-stalking features as you can't really put a bike inside someone's bag. The other solution is licence plates. RFID tags inside bike frames / bike frame numbers registered to users on a national or district register will mean bikes will be harder to sell for the thief thus deterring theft
I have a GPS cellular based tracker on my motorcycle. It is made by Invoxia and costs $159.00 with 2 years of cell service. It has a great app that allows you to see where you have been on your bike. It also will warn you if your bike is tipped or moved. It does this via your phone app. It has an internal rechargeable battery that lasts about 120 hours between charges. The GPS seems to be accurate to a few feet of the actual location. I am looking to get an e-bike and I will be using another Invoxia GPS tracker. I like your idea of putting on the underside of the fender.
I added an Air-tag to the underside of my saddle until I can find a better location for it. I’m just playing around with it really trying to find the time to mount in other locations (fenders) that don’t effect signal. Bike is currently at the shop and the number of hits with iPhones thst’ve come in contact with the bike is absolutely crazy.
Thieves are everywhere now they will look under your seat lol
GPS tracking in combination with insurance that also takes care of finding the bike is a good tool to minimize your own damage. Nevertheless, you have a lot of trouble. No bike, report to the police, communication with the insurance, ...
Better would be a solution that prevents the theft, in which you take away the thief's motivation to steal.
Here I find the approach of Bosch very promising. The motor only works with the original display.
The motor is one of the most expensive parts on the bike. If it does not work, the bike is worthless to the thief. Neither can he use it himself nor can he sell it.
The deactivation of the engine lock must therefore not be too simple.
A solution could look like this.
The bike owner can lock the motor, e.g. using a code, fingerprint or similar.
The engine lock can only be reset by the manufacturer, ideally "over the air" after proof of ownership has been provided.
Of course, the whole thing only works if the thief knows that the bike is protected in this way.
What do you think about 529 shield project? It sounds like a great initiative
You mean the one that is missing whole states which are larger than France, like Texas?
I hope it spreads, it's been shown that a proper registry combined with the Police using it reduces bike theft up to 50%
bikeindex.org is pretty good too; my baby's registered there.
I think something like this is definitely needed as part of the effort
I'm in Edmonton, Canada. Using GPS, I tracked my stolen cell phone to a storage locker, then Stan's Exchange a few times. Police did nothing, but I confronted owner; he coughed up my phone..
With the market selling more and more expensive bikes there needs to be an industry protocol around theft. Etching bike frames, electronic tracking, etc.
I agree. But I don't think this will come from the bike manufacturers. Unfortunately they have a perverse incentive to continue the status quo, since a stolen bike = a new bike sale.
Insurance companies might be better suited to introduce these measures. Something like "if you want to insure your bike for more than $1000, it must have a frame number, and you must have registered it with us".
As to ebikes, perhaps the lock should be inside the motor - when the bike is locked, motor won’t turn or be in “neutral” gear. An idea for Bosch, Brose, Shimano etc. to help prevent bike theft.
Removing the kiox or intuvia or whatever display renders the bike useless. Requiring a passcode to be input in the event of a replacement display being ordered should help.
Megalag channel on yt has done some good theft testing with airtags (sorry bout mentioning another channel, but I feel it's relevant). He used it on bikes, a key fob, and one other thing. He successfully recovered his bike with the help of the airtag and the police. Edit: wanted to add that in Vancouver B.C. they have a very good bike theft recovery program called project 529 that looks to be working well. They say bike theft is down like 42% since they started it. Hope the US gets going with something similar, but I won't hold my breath. Until then gps tracking is the best option I've found so far
Tmobile has the syncup tracker that just came out that seems like a viable option. Ofcourse I don't know how well it'll work but it's something!
While GPS trackers might offer some way of getting your bike back, I think I'd couple it with a good theft policy...any recommendations on insurance for ebikes?
If you have renter's insurance, it may cover theft, but check the fine print.
Three locks and two motion alarms
You’re indirectly touching on one of my biggest obstacles to purchasing a fancy new e-bike - security. I ride bicycles for transportation purposes, and with little to no security in public spaces, there’s simply no way I’m gonna fork over the kind of dough a quality e-bike requires. The best insurance in the world can’t cover everything. Give customers safe, secure places to lock their bikes in public and at work and watch sales take off!
No space for that kind of solution in the Netherlands
One of the issue with any electronic portabke device is the need to plug it regularly on a power source to recharge the battery, which if you have multiple devices becomes a problem...
For e-bike with Bosch motor, what is a bit disappointing, is that to my knowledge Bosch doesn’t yet provide any option to have USB-C plugs that would be wired directly to the bike battery.
It would be great that Bosch integrate 2 USB-C plugs in the front near the Intuvia console, and allow bike manufacturers to connect 2 more (in the back of the bike) to be able to add accessories.
From there, it would be possible to connect GoPro camera / dashcam and smartphone in the front, and a GoPro / dashcam and GPS tracker on the back that would be always recharged by the bike battery 🙂.
I was thinking about using my old Apple Watch with cel service. There will be the monthly expense. I have a carbon frame so I am wondering if I can find space in the frame and it not block the signal. Then the work of taping into the power to keep it charging.
I think using find my iPhone it would track well. I also wonder if you could call the watch and give a audible message. “This bike has been GPS tracked. Bring it outside and walk away.” (It may keep you from having a confrontation.)
My wife and I have 4 ebikes, one is very pricey that would warrant doing something like that. That is if I ever needed to leave it out of my sight.
I think you are spot on, especially about the emotional attachment skewing your perspective on how valuable something really is in the grand scheme of your whole life. Since getting an e-bike stolen a few years ago. we don't take our e-bikes places where we would need to park them - at all - we go in pairs and someone stays with the bikes. It sucks. My stolen bike was an expensive loss, but I didn't claim on the insurance, because your insurance goes up, so you end up paying for it anyway and more. I've thought about apple airtags, that's about as far as I would go, but like you say, to what end? Your bike is in the crappy part of town, are you really going to go get it? Or, it's on a van to a different state or even country, so now what?
Hi Simon, why do you get insurance cover if you don,t make a claim ?
@@showboat4869 You need insurance to have a mortgage, and I see it as coverage for total loss like fire or flood. I may be wrong, but I thought if you claim for stolen item your risk goes up and your premiums increase (as do your neighbours) - it could be a myth.
Great topic, but rather than relying on GPS tracking for stolen bike recovery, I would like to see reasonably priced replacement insurance. I have checked on insurance and the cost is more than I pay for my car.
I continue to be impressed with your videos. Great content, good thoughts on bike culture and ownership. Keep it up. Also, I am tonk of getting a Riese&Mueller Supercharger 2 with the RX chip precisely for this kind of thing. But it is tricky to find info on how it actually works.
Very good discussion. In terms of the technology, a tracker with a microphone and possibly a camera as well that will allow the owner to monitor with a simple txt message would be a good feature. The use of geo fences is good to reduce false alarms (as long as they are set really small). Proximity sensing with some sort of smart software to determine if someone is cutting the lock, ie spending a lot of time very close to the bike. ALso having a speaker so that you could announce... "ok the thief with the red trousers... im actually watching you and someone is about 10 seconds from you with a machette"... sometimes bluff works lol, especially when its not expected. A high intensity 110 dBa sounder will draw a lot of attention too. I think a lot of advances can be made by manufacturers to improve the security of the tracker and its reliability. One weak link is the antenna as you mentioned. However, I do have an idea for a stealth antenna that is actually part of the bike and you have not way of knowing where it is. this will allow a device with a massive battery resource to be hidden inside the frame - eg the saddle tube and a high security stopper plug preventing it being removed even if the saddle is taken off. I am going to discuss this latter idea with a bike manufacturer to see if they can find a way of implimenting my idea quite simply and chgeaply. This could get us a lot further down the road in beating these scumbags
Very interesting and important topic. I think there might be other ways to make this work. Not sure what that is but somehow just shutting the bike down and unusable seems to me to be a better way.
Bosch seems to be offering this with their new connected displays, but it would be nice if they could make the bike actually not pedallable as opposed to just not being able to turn on.
Since Bosch is the leader in sensors and motors, maybe an internal motor shutdown or internal lock that can be activated over cellular and reactivated by an authorized Bosch dealer. Just a thought
Riese and Müller offers gps tracking in selected European countries for their bikes. It works as an insurance as well. They will track your bike on your behalf. And if they can’t recover it within a certain period (3 days I think), then they will replace your bike.
A good deal I think. It adds piece of mind.
I also have a van moof with gps tracking, at least in Amsterdam, bike thieves leave van moofs alone just because they know the bike hunters will pursue theme. So it is a deterrent indeed.
Nike several years ago sold running shoes with a sensor inside....also you had to download an app to see your trace. I think that little sensor; its size is like a coin; you can put it inside bicycle handlebars. so you can have an idea where the thief use to ride you bike. And it´s cheaper and smaller than anything nowadays.
That’s why I love Madrid, Spain because e-scooters and e-bikes are everywhere.
Is there a way to deliver an electric shock to the thief when he or she attempts to steal the bike?
By the way, also cats GPS Trackers are smalls and functional for bike riders, MTB riders.
Large PDs aren’t going to care at all. Most metropolitan police officers are committed to revenue enforcement (writing tickets for fines). Detectives are committed to injury crimes or large profile crimes. A small town might offer minimal assistance if you have it pinpointed and they want the thief for other infractions. I’d have no qualms about recovering my own property while it is in transit or steal it back if the thief leaves it in public. Trouble is, bike thieves steal for a fix, then the bike is transported and warehoused for re-sale. It may also just be broken down for parts. Best to make the bike so permanently ugly it isn’t re-sellable.
In Seattle where I used to live, the SPD didn’t even prosecute or investigate Grand Theft Auto. That’s a little reality check on how helpful an urban police department is likely to be recovering a bicycle.
Prevention isn’t just key, it’s everything.
THANK YOU for this discussion,,,I live in Mesa, AZ and for the last few years have been determined to try to dump my car for daily use anyway. I could not afford an ebike yet and miracles of miracles I found a used Gazelle NL C7 HMB 2017 for what I thought was ridiculously low…. I am a past triathlete/bike nut, worked at bike shops so figured if the battery was good the rest seemed pretty fixable/mechanical. It was my dream bike and even the powder blue color I was dreaming of! (I am an artist and writing a book so poor but color and design important to me…also a tech nerd so really what better then an ebike?) This bike had only 205 miles on the odometer! So I bought it and luckily a local ebike store sells Gazelle and they fixed a number of things (I was freaked out I could not adjust the brakes,,,,, I had no idea they were hydraulic assist!) and it still was a huge bargain. (I still was very scared to spend the money but thought it was divine intervention I saw it listed ….serendipity but then in the middle of the night I had a brainstorm that I could sell my Mountain bike to more then pay for it! That I did within a few hours of listing it and gave away so much stuff I would no longer need like Stans No Tubes paraphernalia, shock pump, etc etc the buyer gave me more then I was asking! Sorry for the TMI just the back story that I am thrilled to have the Gazelle) so I have spent an inordinateamouny of time finding baskets, panniers, adjusting ergometrics etc…and spending time researching locks and anti-theft strategies. THANK YOU for ask the suggestions! I had no idea Veloassurance existed so I have a replacement policy, and still working on getting locks but ordered the heaviest integral chain to the older model Axa Café lock…(from England!) and will consider a newer U-Lock too….and been thinking long and hard about the GPS tracking issue. I ordered an AirTag and in the Gazelle users group there was info that others had bought a silicone case for it (like $6) and very good mounting tape and slide out the battery, then tape the silicone side of case inside the battery compartment on the top or side I think there is room for it with the battery once replaced. Mine is under the rack so will see how that works. So wanted to tell you about that, and another issue I have discovered: not only does iAirtag notify someone if they have an iPhone that they are being tracked, after a specific amount of time (2 days?) the AirTag begins to beep! So if you can recover it somehow or get the police to go after it it needs to be soon before they are alerted! I also will put the stickers on. So I think I am going to put it on ….still thinking about it…I very much appreciated the info about the police dept ! Good points! I will call them tomorrow here and see what their policy is. I know with the new Apple “precise” location a signal will be more specific down to apt etc. Apparently it is room specific ! Thank you for all these videos I certainly Learned a lot about ebikes! I go to CA a lot so hopefully will stop by sometime. Thank you thank you thank you! Cheers Jaime
PS my homeowners would not add my bike under replacement unless I had some kind of written estimate of a new comparable model to assess current replacement cost. Neither The local bike store nor Gazelle would put anything in writing to estimate the cost so had to go with Velosurance to insure it, and added on the panniers etc too. (By the way do you carry PoCampo bags? They are amazing and I actually first was introduced to Gazelle by the founders blog! There are bags for kids, pannier/backpacks etc etc unisex and the most wonderful women’s (feminine anyway) bags ! Including a beautiful well made handle bar bag whose Velcro handlebar straps and rings fold away when used as a purse! And there is a pocket for the purse shoulder strap to pack away when on the handlebars! The company is very ethical, donates portions of profits to provide bikes to kids in Africa and other Non profits. The patterns of the material are changed yearly for the feminine prints and the engaged customers give input on which colors and patterns are used! Maybe you already do but these bags are just wonderful!
Surely some company such as bosch could wire in some sort of gps tracker into their ebikes?
Hi. I'm in the UK but the challenges remain the same. GPS may be part of the answer. But only part. Firstly, there aren't that many places you can hide a GPS on a bike. Then you have the problem that GPS signal is sapped by metal. Not good on an all metal bike. Really, for the cost of electric bikes I think manufacturers should step up more. They have the money and R&D departments to do much better than there doing now. Until then I think cyclist are left vulnerable. Big heavy locks and chains are easily cut now. Taking a wheel or seat post off when you park up is not practical. There is no easy answer. But I do think manufacturers should step up a lot more.
E bike fire and theft insurance. 3000 dollar bike 200 dollars a year. You can add liability and accident coverage as well but cost way more. Pedal power is what I used. I'm not advertising it's only a suggestion.
As the owner of a top of the range R&M supercharger and long distance touring in foreign countries, this in my mind, puts my bike at greater risk of being stolen and i have a Power unity tracker plugged directly into the Bosch motor, which features a motion alarm linked to the excellent free phone app apart from the fact that it won "Excellent Product Design" at the 2021 German Design Award , the tracker after the first year , is a reasonable pay as you go ,£3.00/$4.20 a month which is better for me when planning a tour, as for insurance purposes one would have thought that if you have stand alone bike insurance it would reduce the costs,? however i have my bike on my household contents insurance which is inclusive and makes no difference
Great feedback!
I am having a hard time finding information on the Swiss Tracking devices. All sites seem to show the same stock footage and they proceed to dispense legal advice. Thought I appreciate the thought, I am looking for a video that shows me the actual device, when it comes to legal advice, I rather get it elsewhere.
Ending bike theft is number 1. All they need is a transponder that sounds so you can track the bike and it gives off a sound and direct location. Police need a device in their cars that would alert them to stolen bikes as this transponder gives off that info to them. So as a bike goes by the police get a signal with your registered info so they know there is a problem. This would end the tracking issue and fear of a problem getting it back.
Thanks, this is all really good pragmatic advice👍!
The "make your bike look terrible" trick doesn't really work if you have an ebike, unfortunately.
I also would love to learn more. I currently have a sticker that says my bike is tracked by GPS, but obviously it's not. If you hear of any reliable tracking devices good for bikes please let us know.
Its been long known that the best alarm system for your house is the sign in the front yard saying you have a system even if you don't.
Maybe the stickers on your bike would have the same effect. Couple that with in expensive bike alarm ($16.00 0n Amazon) might just make the bad guy move on to an easier target.
Bike locks with siren and cell phone notification?
Stromer app disables the bike as well as track and locate.
I have a VanMoof. The bike hunters will find the bike but then will call the cops if they feel there is any danger.
The only reason I haven’t bought the Homage is because of the theft fear and lack of tracking. I don’t think the air tags will be a viable option until there is a software update.
Hi, the French company Invoxia makes great trackers: I get notified when the bike inclination changes, if it moves and I can follow it if stollen. No subscription for 3 years then it’s something like 10€/year.
It uses the networks LoRa, SigFox, wifi (wps)and Bluetooth to track. Works in Belgium and France, you could ask them if it’s a technical limitation or if it could work in the US with the right commercial partnership ;-)
PS: thanks for all you videos!
Just checked out their site, apparently it woks in the US: www.invoxia.com/us/gps-tracker
I’m a user and have no connection to them. It just works!
PS2: only one model available in the US, have that one (but it’s not waterproof) It’s wrapped and tapped/hidden on my bike. Recharge every 4-6 months. Ask them for their smaller waterproof “pet” tracker
Hi William! Thanks for the shout out. I just stumbled onto this video today and was wondering if anyone had heard of us. Glad to hear you've been enjoying our Bike Tracker! We're always delighted to hear positive feedback from the community.
The solution is to have a remote control using the gsm network with the tracker. Send a text to fry the battery so they can’t use the bike.
Bosch has the ability to uniquely pair your display to the bike so only you can use it if you remove the display.
YES MORE GPS BIKES. The only closest thing I’ve found is Boomerang or the red jump bikes. It was a low step bike with anti theft nuts. It wasn’t as powerful since it was a 250w front hub motor but it got the job done
That does seem like an interesting product, but it's a bit bulky
Another great video...thanks
Thanks for the support!
How about Snik bike tracker?
Very insightful, thanks for sharing your thoughts
"Hi, yeah, I'm sorry to bother you..." - are you Canadian as well? lol
@Propel what is Riese Muller doing with their service, did they launch it or not? There seems to be very little info about it but you can configure the bikes with that specific chip for tracking, but I didn't find any info on how it works, is it hidden, can be easily removed, is it effective or not.
As far as I know it’s a Europe only feature.
The R&M RX is even limited within Europe, (Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg & I assume Germany of course). PowUnity Biketrax is one to keep an eye on. It is Europe wide (27 Countries) and uses the 2G mobile network which is still good until at least 2025
I hope it comes to the US soon. That would be great! Looking forward to new updates from R&M in the coming month(s)
For me no. If you’re relying on GPS then the bike has already been stolen obviously. And bikes aren’t like cars. A bike could be stripped for parts extremely quickly and in that case a tracker has no use. We need secure, indoor bike parking.
@Dave InMSP Certainly I don’t leave my Riese & Muller bike anywhere. I use my Dutch bike which cost me about £600. I would still be upset to lose it, but I have to ride something. And I want to ride a bike that’s still well made and durable. And it’s not a flashy target either. I think it’s a good compromise.
@Dave InMSP Yeah any bike theft will hurt if you have an emotional attachment to the bike. But I still want to ride something that’s high quality enough where I’m enjoying it and I know it’s sustainable. Cheap bikes aren’t sustainable.
I don't think Police will ever be chasing after a single stolen bike, it's just not a smart use of resources. They will try and find serial offenders/gangs to do busts on however and end up with a big stash of stolen bikes at once, that's how a bike of mine was found (always make sure you properly register your bike so it can be returned in case that happens!)
As a side note, maybe the Vanmoof system is actually working, as anecdotally there's some vanmoofs I've seen locked up for weeks in the same places with some relatively weak locks and they haven't been stolen yet. I used to do Uber Eats with my Ebike but thankfully now work for a company that provides their own cargo bikes so don't have to worry so much about theft!
I got a tip from a sheriff’s deputy of where to look for my daughter’s stolen bike. I followed his tip, identified her bike then called the sheriff office requesting help recovering my property that was in plain site. A deputy came out, I had enough information to verify I was the owner, including the spare frame lock key. Of course the property owner claimed someone else brought the bike to his yard and gave the deputy his address. The missing front basket was on that property so luckily I was able to fully recover her bike, and am grateful for the second deputy’s assistance but bike theft isn’t generally a priority. The first deputy saw a bike resembling my daughters’ on his beat. Long story short, when meth-heads move into the neighborhood anything not tied down sprouts legs and LE just shrugs and recommends installing cameras. My daughter has learned that locks aren’t there for decoration.
We owned a cheap kinda crappy ebike called a Flash that had a touch screen & GPS built into the frame. When the bike was moved by someone without the PIN, it would start chirping super loud and at the same time alert the owner through a phone app. Sold the bike because it was junk, but it indicates that there are solutions that these mfgs could build onto the bikes. It seems like this could also fire off a Cafe lock or internal motor lock-out
I used to work in a bike shop and it happened almost every week that someone would come in just having found their bike gone at a rack, I'm in London for context. In the end I started recommending Brompton's...if you don't need to leave it outside its a lot less likely to be stolen. In the end I feel crime would be solved for good if the people committing the acts had better options...
Any tool that works. GPS. Bike Registries. Alarms. All of the above. I've been talking to a car alarm installer to get a system installed on a ebike.
Suppose my local police will be willing to track and locate my stolen ebike, what system would work the best for that? They have the resources to "stake out" a building to find a bike theft ring. Even the "top three" methods...I dont have the time or resources to buy and try a handful of methods.
All situations are different, the chance that they will stake out for a e-bike is tiny.... it is not worth it. You would like to have a system that sends as much data as possible, doesn't even have to be real time. maybe the thief (or new owner) lives in a large building in the city, with all reflections you will never find your bike. But after a while you will see patterns, like someone going to school or work, where the bike is parked outside. If find the bike and you know the bike will be moved from that location between 17:05 - 17:20 police might be willing to interested to invest 15 minutes for catching a thief.
GPS is good. But deterrent is better. So that's where locks and alarms come in. It at least buys you some time.
Apples Air Tags work 100%. They are cheap to buy and straightforward to hide on bikes. I have them installed on my family's 4 e-bikes and their bike keys. The best idea is don't leave bikes where they can be stolen. Two of our e-bikes are Tinkers, and they go everywhere, including shops, bars, offices & accommodation. They are never left alone outside. If I'm not allowed to bring the Tinkers inside, I don't go to these unsurporting places. It's not like millions of bikes out there, except you know which country has millions of bikes.
Hi sir I lost my brand new bike can you assist anything which well help me please 🙏 I informed to police but police are not doing there work properly
incredible
... thank you for the talk.
I really want a cargo ebike but the theft rate in the DFW area is high and the cops just don't care.
Find out what the rental places use.
I don't think GPS is the answer. Bike thieves often sell the bike for parts, breaking the bike up into parts can be done within minutes. It's worth it to recover a bike, but are you really going to GPS tag all the individual parts and chase them all down? Probably not. Paid, secure, weatherproof bike lockers are the best way to challenge the automobile as a legit, reliable daily urban transport choice for those people without indoor storage options everywhere they go. These bike lockers exist today and offer app-based access, integration with city transit cards, and are not terribly priced. Only problem for entrepreneurs is the expense/availability of the tiny plots of ground-level land needed to install them, so we are stuck waiting on cities to grant some land or just install the lockers themselves and potentially collect money (but cities lack that entrepreneurial instinct to turn a small profit). Frustrating when so much of our cities is dedicated to car parking
How's the situation in the US with lorawan?
They used to hang horse thieves.
We were actually thinking of doing a video on bike theft punishment
@@Propelbikes mandatory century ride for all offenders!!
You know how chainsaw chaps have a layer of loose fibers that tangle up and jam up chainsaws? I wonder if you could wrap that around a bike lock to tangle and jam angle grinders
I think police for the most part could be interested. The average e-bike is worth several thousands of dollars. That is a serious felony, and it might be worthwhile solving the crime. A typical cheap bike might not rise to felony levels, though I am not an attorney. FWIW I think all evokes should have built in tracking.
I had my bike seat and pole stolen right in front of my job on 34th street. Thank goodness my bike was locked.
The police should sell gps tags for bikes and use a bigger more accurate and expensive tracker. If you have to register your bike in the first place, why not make it traceable by cops?