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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ม.ค. 2023
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In today's video I share about the difference between electronic and mechanical shutter and their disadvantages on the Sony a7iv.
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So which one do you usually use? Mechanical or electronic?
I personnally use almost exclusively mechanical shutter with the e-front shutter on.
The electronic shutter is for me only used in silent mode.
Which is unfortunate is that, most of the time, when you need the silent mode you are in an indoor situation and, therefor, might have artificial lighting, then the banding and deformations are almost omnipresent and not always directly visible on the back of the camera...
nowhere i found how many shots a7iv can do in silent mode
@@strippedlist What do you mean ?
If you talk about burst speed, i believe it's: 10 fps in silent, against 6.5 in mechanical shutter.
Noting that usually in Sony you have other factors such as: jpeg or raw, and , compressed or uncompressed (or lossless).
But honestly I can't think of any situation where it matters really...
Only for sport I can imagine needing +5fps, and in this case, well you better go for a photo camera (A7rIV, A7rV) or go for the almighty A1 already :p
@@TaoCovillault most of the cameras , lets say r6 mark II it's 12 frames per second mechanical and 20 fps or 40 (i cant recall how many) , Fujifilm xh2 is 40 fps in electronic shutter, nowhere i can find how many shots in electronic shutter a7iv can do
@@TaoCovillault it's 10 fps in compressed raw mode HI+ with up 70 800 files if you have cf-express a card!, 6.5 FPS IF UNCOMPRESSED RAW, but believe me i search all GOOGLE, NOWHERE you find info of fps in electronic shutter/silent mode of A7iv! ...is it 10? is it 20? is it 30? For example, fujifilm xh2 can do 40 fps in electronic shutter, r6 mark 2 20 or 30 fps, etc
This whole weird vid you never mentioned the rolling shutter issue.. it’s the no. 1 topic to discuss all the rest is bs.
Silent or electronic shutters on cmos sensors (a7iv, a7rv, a7iii, a7c, a7siii, etc,) scan the image in a narrow strip from top to bottom (figurative analogy). If a fast shutter speed is used for fast moving subjects, the scan will stretch and distort the image.
Sony a9, a9ii and the a1 use a stacked sensor which scans the whole frame at once (figurative analogy) so faster shutter speeds can be used.
The a1 will also do flash in silent mode which cmos sensors can't do.
Banding by led lights is much less of an issue on stacked sensor cameras (a1, a9, a9ii).
So for cmos sensor cameras, using the mechanical shutter is going to get the job done without any tears.
Using their silent shutter isn't worth the risk.
It'll bite you in the a** in a fast paced shoot like a wedding either with banding or rolling shutter distortion.
Believe me, I learned the hard way.
Thanks for sharing the in depth knowledge!
Great explanation. I shot a9 with electronic shutters and have no issue. And I just got my a74 as the hybrid camera. I will keep what you said in mind. Thank you.
Hi, guy! So ,what do you think to shot portrait, landscape in eletronic shutter ? This dont would important to preserve for more time the camera ?
I learned the hard way yesterday.
Thank you for making this video. Helped me decide settings on my Sony A7CR
Thanks. Last night a friend of mine performed in a solo live streamed music concert, Jimmer Podrasky at Kulik's Woodshed (check him out), and I was very conscious of the sound of the shutter, so I switched to silent mode. It was great, although one can really take a lot more exposures than planned if you aren't careful! Your video was great help to understand the pros and cons of the technology. Thanks!
Helpful! Thanks.
Great video, great vibe, precise info, i apreciate a lot, im debating on using electronic shutter but i use flashes a lot.. its a mega bummer... my cheap lumix allows me to shoot flash without mecanical shutter... its mostly because of shutter failure or breakage that i see happening to other photographers
Yeah that's my only bummer with the elec shutter.
thanks for sharing ✌🏼🥰
, I wanted to get a ZVE1. the only thing bugging me is that NOT-mechanical Shutter, which may not be helpful in flickering lights. I have tried shooting in flickering lights with a6300: that Sucks!! because you are bound to 1 shutter-speed 50pfs here in Europe. maybe 100 would also work at time, but not perfectly. Anything above or below that, forget it-no usable.
Do you mean that with ZVE1, we cannot even choose that only single shutter speed, at which the banding disappears?
This in my eyes, is a huge problem while donig some serious work, like short-films... where picture quality and cinematography matters a lot. Anything possible work-arounds?
Thank you for this!
Thank you for watching!
In my Sony a7c ii no sound in electronic shutter mode, the shutter not silent in the menu can you help me
Hi Mario, is it possible to shoot with electronic shutter (silent shoot) but also have picture profile ON?
I recently tried to shoot (both video and photo) with picture pprofile ON (Slog-2), Gamma Assist ON, Silent Shoot ON and the preview on my camera display was totally messed up.
How does shutter effect video?
Thanks for the video. I have a question and i have been trying to figure on how to lower the shutter on sony A74 to 1/4 and so on to create the low shutter drag effect on the video but i can not figure it out. Is there something i am missing?
Use "all intra" setting instead of 'long gop'
Wish Sony would add a sound on/off option on the electronic shutter
Thanks for the video. If I'm only going to make video with my A7IV, is it better that I only use the electronic shutter? Thanks in advance.
Videos are always recorded without the mechanical curtain. If the curtain is down, the sensor is blind.
The alpha 7 iv has a very low noise sensor, making it very (very, very !) suitable for astro photography. In astro photography we need bulb mode and often long exposure NR too. So when using my camera for astro photography, I am forced to switch to mechanical shutter. Otherwise : electronic. With the ISO range, I hardly ever use flashes any more (unless fill-in flash or for fast moving macro exposures).
Hey, wouldn't the A7s series be better for astro?
3:15 one quetiom please. why can we not get rid of banding while having only digital shutter?
Unlike CCD sensors with frame transfer, the sensors are read out sequentially. The reading process is much slower than the alternating frequency of the network (the lamps flicker at twice the frequency).
It is about 1/16s.
Even if the camera is set to 1/1000th of a second, the process takes 1/16th of a second. But since the light changes 120 per second (60 hz)/100 (50 hz), these stripes are created.
The problem does not arise with the mechanical one because the shutter is closed while the sensor is being read.
Which one is good for taking baseball photos? I mean to avoid rolling shutter on fast paced movements during such sports? Thanks a lot bro 🙏🏻
I'm venturing into Sony from my entry level Canon. Video is less important to me, and now I'm figuring out if I can get one camera for my current photography goals (Landscape and Astro) while being prepared for my future goals (Wildlife and Sports). It looks like the A9 and A9ii are what makes sense for us. The electronic shutter seems to be superb, preventing a lot of the rolling shutter and banding. Most of the used copies seem to have extremely low mechanical shutter counts, because users hardly bother with it. The A7 iii has better dynamic range, but I think I'm willing to sacrifice on that front since the A9 can cover action photography for only a few hundred more on the used market.
Do you experience images being skewed on electronic shutter? I have this problem especially when the camera is moving. No issues on the mechanical shutter.
Yes that's called rolling shutter. You'll have to stick to mechanical if moving fast
I've found another weird thing when I started shooting with 50mm GM 1.2 - Shooting with mechanical shutter over 1/1000 there is less bokeh than with electronic shutter and same shutter speed.
There is also an issue with the electronic front curtain
Hi Mario, if shooting with mechanical shutter, is there benefit with e-front in or off?
e-front with very wide aperture (maybe F2 and below) can cause the bokeh to distort or suffer quality loss. So for certain portraits you'll get the best background if you turn off e-front.
About one level more dynamic and a lower rolling shutter and the ability to flash.
I use the electronic one for normal shots that don't need to capture fast movements, or when the flash is necessary.
A few times on my A7iv I have found a weird distortion using ES vs mechanical. Heads on people/dogs have a weird slightly stretched shape compared to mechanical
Thanks for letting us know! I haven't encountered that before.
Yes, due to the strong rolling shutter of this camera...
And it happens a lot, especially if you take burst
@@TaoCovillault I can not understad that the rollign shutter hads anyting to do with that ?
@@orangerecords_studio Well, for that, you first have to understand what is rolling shutter.
In a nutshell it's a distortion visible on fast lateral movement caused by the slow read out of the pixels.
In short, your electronic censor doesn't read all it's pixels at once, but it goes pixel by pixel, line per line...
Which cause a delay in between the beginning of the reading and the end of the reading.
It's like these camera streching apps on smartphone where people end un with very long necks or whatever 😅
The bigger the censor, the more time it takes to read all pixels.
With a mechanical shutter, there is a physical curtain that is closed, and the read out is synced with the openning of this curtain, in opposition to the constant swiping of the e-shutter.
So the rolling is known as a video problem, but if you shoot burst in e-shutter, especially indoor or at low and/or artifial light, you will see that all your pictures are sloghtly different and sone are streched :/
It's really hard to predict actually...
I recommand Mark Geller's video on the topic ;)
@@TaoCovillault yes, ok, I know what rolling shitter is, I am aware of the slow readout, and the "line by line" cused to the downsampling fraom 7 k, and 33Mp sensor. I see that A7 IVC is one of the worst. BUt , I thought taking pics was another mathod :)
Is silent shooting mode the same as the electronic shutter? I shoot wildlife with my A7iv and will sometimes put it in silent mode, but the rolling shutter is worse in that mode? Is that right?
Yes they are both the same thing and yes there is more rolling shutter when using the electronic/silent shutter
on the other hand , why worry about rolling shutter with wildlife shots?
i am getting more noise in electronic shutter in my sony a7r v. is it normal?
Yes, the electronic shutter produces a little more noise. The sensor is read out faster to minimize the rolling shutter.
The same applies to Panasonic cameras.
On the GH3 it is still read out at normal speed (1/10 sec), but on the GH4 it is read out at twice that speed (1/20s). This leads to a dynamic loss of around 1 stop.
That was already the case with the Sony R1, but it (apparently) had a global shutter.
Does electronic shutter affect to the Dynamic Range on a7iv? Is it still 14bit at electronic shutter or drop to 12bit?
Normally you lose about 1 stop of dynamics, otherwise the readout speed would be too slow.
Both electronic and mechanical is good according to the shooting conditions
That's right! The key is understanding when and where to use either
I want to adjust my shutter speed from 1/4000 to 1/250 for portrait photography with aperture value 1.4.. So it is possible with nd filter.. If possible then how much stop nd filter i should purchase..i have sony a6300 camera having a problem with shutter speed.. If i increase my shutter speed above 1/250 then photo come brighter from one side in day and black in night.. Thats why i want to purchase this nd filter.. So i have two questions. Is nd filter solve this problem.. And suggests me a best nd filter for this..
Waiting for your reply
Thank you
Yes an ND filter will help. I suggest a variable ND so you can adjust the strength of it
@@MarioSoMediaok thankyou but recently i check my camera and i check that there is no problem in silent shooting mode ( electronic shutter).. Problem only arrive when mechanical shutter in use... So my question is that... There is any problem with shooting silent shooting mode to avoid dark bright edge from one side.. Or is there any quality loss in picture quality... If there is little unnoticeable problem with Electronic shutter then it is acceptable for me.. So what i do please suggest
dose electronics shutter effects shutter life ?
Not shutter life directly in the same sense as a mechanical shutter.
Well, the problem with the loss of light and qulity in the bokeh is cause also in mechanical with the electronic front shutter on.
It's one of the known disavantage of the e-front shutter. It was already the case on A7III and, I assume on pretty much all Sony cameras
Also, one thing that hasn't been mentionned is that electronic shutter sometimes distord the image slightly... You will see it if you shoot burst, often images are distorded and/or blured.
I believe it's because of the low refresh rate of this censor and therefor caused the Rolling Shutter to distord our images
Yeah for sure. That electronic front shutter can cause problems too. Thanks for the insight!
You have a rolling shutter with a mechanical shutter aswell within some conditions with the a74.
It doesn’t exist in a9 and a1
What is the lifespan of an electronic shutter
300k shot
I see this video is already 1 year old, still on thing was already happening more than one year and you don't mention it at all. Even say it is no problem. There is a huge issue on the a7 m3 and 4 with dying of the mechanical shutter at a low shutter count. It's a huge issue that Sony don't acknowledge.
I had the a7iii for 5 years in a professional scenario and still good. A7iv is still good for me and got it when it first came out. My experience has been fine. If you have an issue contact Sony customer support bud.
@@MarioSoMedia Thank you for your reply. I just bought the a7m4 in January going from Canon to Sony. I´m very pleased with this camera. Just became aware of this issue through a Facebook page regarding this. I got a bit nervous about it, because I invested huge in Sony with cam and premium objectives and found stories of dying shutters with less than 50k counts. But I looked a bit closer now and discovered it`s mainly the A7m3 with this issue. To be honest there must also be a side to how a person treats the camera and in what environment it operates. So for now just clicking happy on my new investment and not getting troubled by possible problems.
Sony anti flicker on off