Please let me know if you like this style of video, and if so what area you would like seen investigated in this way. This is something I would like to do with Shadow of the Erdtree if there is enough interest!
This style of video is cool, but I also enjoy livestreams. They give us the opportunity to go explore for specific things with you & point out things you might have missed.
Of course I like this style of video, I'm doing the same thing myself! Except I can't record it yet.. but still, its very nice seeing someone else's thought process AS they're going through the game. But I wanted to point out the demi-human ashes! I'm not sure if they are significant, but being found in the Impaler's catacomb, I'm treating it as if they are important. "...Though they seem somewhat intelligent, when night falls, their blood boils and they become feral." Maybe it's just flavor, but why exactly is it that they go berserk at night? If the land of shadow is constantly, well, in the shadows, does that mean its always treated as "at night" there? There's also 3 things that I can think of that happen at night: The Night's Cavalry, the death birds, and some graveyards will spawn the spirit jellyfish at night. I'm going to focus on the Night's Cavalry because they are supposedly commanded by Morgott, an omen. They also have a fucked up version of a spirit mount similar to Torrent. With the death bird and the spirits, there seems to be a connection between the night and death/spirits, but is this suggesting there's another connection with the night and the crucible? If there is, is it BECAUSE the crucible might be trapped in the shadowlands? Does the night have a sort of "witching hour" property, where it merges the world with the shadow world, and that quasi-merge bolsters the connection between the crucible and the demi-humans/omen/etc.?
I like this format of lore hunting/theory chasing and basically narrating a lore dive play through. Brilliantly entertaining, creative and original, as your style trend has revealed itself to be quite faithfully!
Your point about the Golden Lineage and dragons hit on a theory I’ve had for some time. The game pretty explicitly states that the Golden Lineage comes from Marika and Godfrey, which includes Godwyn, so I don’t think Godwyn was parented by a dragon. However, based on the way Godrick speaks of the dragon as a “true born heir” and potentially included in “forefathers one and all,” the rest of the Golden Lineage may be descended from dragons. Godwyn was very close with the Ancient Dragon Cult and specifically Lansseax, so it’s not a stretch to say that the rest of the Golden Lineage are the descendants of Godwyn and Lanseax, Godrick included. EDIT: Godwyn was closest with Fortisax, not Lanseax, but who knows. Considering it’s not clear how birth works in the Lands Between, Godwyn could’ve had a children with either one of them. Maybe dragons can even swap gender, considering they can even shapeshift to humans.
godwyn created the dragon cult once he befriended fortissax and was taught Ancient Dragon Lightning, Lansseax was a leader or teacher in the cult and the one to taught vyke ancient dragon lightning. The reason for Godwyn yellow lightning is due to him combining Holy magic of the erdtree, this can also be seen with the ancient dragon soldiers and their ice lightning since theirs has glintstone magic in it.
I think FromSoft needs to put out a list of everything Merica DIDN'T sleep with. 😅 It's the only way for us to truly know who or what is related to whom, cause it would seem to be a shorter list than to what she has slept with.
It was Fortissax that Godwyn was closest with, and it was Fortissax who stays inside Godwyn's "dream" trying to fight off the death blight until it consumed him. Tarnished Archeologist posed the highly likely theory that the Erdtree made traditional birth obsolete, because it bears new life like fruit, meaning that Godwyn and Fortissax both being male (and wildly different species, despite the Ancient Dragons' ability to take on human forms) wouldn't be a barrier to them having children together. Maybe they both just have to donate blood to the Erdtree or something. But this would also explain why the Grafted Scions, who are pretty clearly Godrick's own children, have silver hair just like the Ancient Dragons do even in dragon form. It wouldn't surprise me if Fortissax and Godwyn, on top of their stated chemistry, wed for political reasons as well, to stop the war with the Ancient Dragons in its tracks.
I'm still a Melina truther. If you look at the trailer, there's a new incantation that spawn's purple-pink butterflies. It's the incantation that hoists the user into the air and seems to affect multiple enemies in some way. The purple-pink hue seems very similar to the bewitching branch, which turns enemies into allies. So, I think that this incantation is a large, area-of-effect bewitching spell. But it's the butterflies that are the most interesting. Because this introduces a fourth butterfly. And if this is a bewitching spell, then those bewitching butterflies probably represent Miquella instead of the nascent butterflies. Hear me out: Aeonian Butterfly = Malenia (doubtless) Smoldering Butterfly = Messmer Bewitching Butterfly = Miquella Nascent Butterfly = Melina The Nascent butterfly is described as translucent and has has a slightly bluish aura. Just like Melina when she fades in and out of the spirit realm. But honestly, I don't think any of this is true. Actually, I think all the butterfly stuff is actually a red herring. Here's what I actually believe: Messmer is not the child of Marika and Radagon. He's the child of Marika and Godfrey-and he's Godwyn's twin brother. Here are the 3 strongest pieces of evidence I have. Exhibit A) Messmer's symbol is the red snake, which was considered a traitor to the Erdtree BEFORE Radagon, in the time of Elden Lord Godfrey. (Duelist's Set) Exhibit B) The slain Giants on the Mountainops are all impaled with similar spears as Messmer's-BEFORE Radagon and during Godfrey's conquests. Exhibit C.1) Messmer has draconic features and imagery. But unlike the Godwyn's Dragon Cult, Messmer has features of Dragon COMMUNION-the arcane mirror of the Dragon Cult. Exhibit C.2) Messmer shares imagery with the drake knights and Banished Knights, both partakers of Dragon Communion-and likely he was their original master. I'm sure we're going to get answers one the DLC finally drops. But either way, I really hope we get more Melina. She's my favorite and criminally under utilized.
So my personal theory on Messmer is that he's Godwyn's twin, because the bracelet on Messmer's right arm has the same pattern as a bracelet on Godwyn's corpse. The patterns are turned 90° though. The dlc has also revitalized my belief in a theory that many of us had, that the shape of the continent once resembled the dragon image on the Drake talismans. Marika is shown in the arms raised position in her statues & crucified that way because it's the shape of her personal Great Rune. You can see it on Marika's Scarseal. I also just remembered the Depraved Perfumer's armor has 2 red snakes on it
Marika’s pose is also in mimicry of the branches of the Erdtree as seen in the painting in Roundtable Hold. It’s saying Marika and the Erdtree are synonymous symbolically, I think.
Godwyn and Messmer being twins is interesting as they both seem designed as opposites, with Godwyin being the culmination of all things golden and Messmer having several "heretical" motifs. Godwyn was the son of Marika and Godfrey though, and the only time red hair is noted is in reference to the lineage of Radagon (and the fire giants by extension). The clear draw is that Messmer fits somewhere into the Marika/Radagon progeny, but if theres some other reason explained in the DLC as to how Messmer's hair is red then this is quite the fun theory. Still hoping Godwyn has a big role in the DLC
I too, believe that Messmer was born either as Godwyn’s twin or immediately after Godwyn. That there was something terribly amiss with his birth. As Queen Marika was still betrothed to Godfrey, both of them hair of gold. How did it come to be that Messmer had such vibrant red hair? Surely this child so obviously not Godfrey’s would be seen as a bastard, and with the snakes and the hair of giants and whatever else may have been obvious about him at birth - abomination. Marika would flee, and use the opportunity presented to her to veil the realm we now know as the shadow lands, in the upheaval created by the greater will as it cast down the people we know as the Nox in their eternal cities, below the surface of the crust of the lands between. Using her powers to vanish an entire stretch of land literally in the shadow of the erdtree, in the middle of each of the divine towers, where now we see nothing but water and smoke on the map. She would steal away with her baby in an effort to save him. Perhaps giving him to those people in the portrait to be raised. Though, that did not turn out well for them! From the shadowed realm but possessed of all of the birthright of every other demi-god, I can see exactly why Messmer would say upon seeing us, the tarnished, as Elden Lord: “Mother… wouldst thou truly Lordship sanction - in one so bereft of light?” In a mocking tone dripping with disdain.
@@unfortunateinc.205 There is a chance that Godwyn is NOT the son of Godfrey, though. Look at Radagon. Now look at Godwyn. Now Radagon. Now Godwyn. Back to Radagon. (Lol) The only difference between these two men is literally their hair colour, aesthetically. Godwyn far more closely resembles Radagon than Godfrey. But he was a golden child, perfectly formed and suited to serve as the son of Marika and her betrothed Elden Lord of the “Golden Lineage.” But Marika was having an affair with Radagon! A secret she thought could never come out! And this may be precisely why she divested Godfrey of his gold and “hounded him” from the lands between. Using him as a backup for later. Even telling him that she would send him and his tarnished brethren away to live and die in another land, growing stronger in the face of death so that they could return stronger. To face what? Well, she wants us to kill a god. But why kill her if she flees to the shadow realm with her baby? Because Radagon has been meddling. Because she truly wants us to kill Radagon, but believes we aren’t strong enough yet. And isn’t it interesting that in our absence Radagan, too would grow stronger. Learning sorceries from Rennala as a champion of the Erdtree in the Liurnian wars when the capital could not bring to heel the Carian Queen? This story reminded me so much of the story of Mary Magdalene. Then of the more ancient Sumerian folk tail about the Dragon Queen Melusine who dances her golden ring of eternity. That they were both pregnant with children, Mary from Jesus and Queen Melusine from a human, that their babies would be abominations and that they must flee across the waters from Jerusalem to Southern France. Like the Tori Amos song Marys of the Sea - “You must go, must flee. For they will hunt you down. You and your unborn seed. In all of Gaul is there safety? Les Saintes Marie de La Mer, you will dance your ring, Marys of the Sea, the lost bride weeps.” Knowing George and how he writes things from history, including elements from British folklore, Norse mythology, Irish mythologies, Egyptian culture and mythos… all of this and how akin he has made Marika to Jesus/Mary iconography. I feel very confident about this. Look at the statue just behind Messmir of a Woman, I think clearly Marika, holding a baby!
I've wondered for a while if Miquella's name was just a modified Michael. Michael meaning 'One who is like God'. The DLC trailer makes me think it's more than just that. Archangel Michael fights Lucifer, who has taken the form of a dragon, during the fight at the end of the world. Messmer is covered in snakes and dragons. They are, potentially, reflections of one another. The heretical, draconic, and 'bereft of light' vs the 'pure and radiation'.
Miquella is known to have been empathic towards all the races of the lands between and part of his reasoning to create his haligtree was to include this beings into the an order. The Golden Order shunned them from their society, Miquella welcome them into his.
Maybe before marika became a god, Radagon was actually a separate being from her, but they somehow fused, probably in her ascension. which could explain how miquella and malenia and messmer seem like they should be older and more pure empereans. Also the Lattice is made of straight lines, representing the masculine, orderly aspects of the universe, while Marikas is curved and organic, representing the feminine, fluid aspects of the universe. Combined they complete the totality of the cosmos and thats probably how she became the two-in-one, hermaphradite god. And I do think the land of shadows is in the center of the map. one, because its btw all the divine towers and could be anchors for the veil (as their actual purpose), but also because in the Old Hunters dlc, we see that miyazaki enjoys the idea of different realities being hidden by bodies of water. seeing as the center is a giant, seemingly uninteresting, foggy body of water...adds up. ALSO I was looking at the map and saw the weirdly long waterfall on the map btw the mtn tops and caelid, so I went to the bestial sanctum and looked around only to find a Miquella's lily overlooking the closest point to the waterfall. You can look down and see the water crashing from where you find the lily under a tree. You also see the isolated tower...just very strange placement if its not very important. Maybe miquella went here and either did this himself, or was trying to figure out how to enter the land of shadow.
So the Land of Shadows is where Marika obtained Godhood? This must be why Miquella is here then, to ascend to godhood by following his mother’s footsteps. Maybe there is something here which lead to Marika casting this land out, so no one else could obtain godhood?
That is an interesting idea, the Land of Shadow needs to be hidden so the past cannot be repeated. Though as we know, even if you bury the past history will still repeat itself.
I’m over 500 hours in this game and I was shook when you pointed out Radagon’s name is an anagram for “a dragon” as if it wasn’t staring me in the face. Now I am reeling over what that could mean for him 🤯
I think Messmer is the one who wiped out the giants. In the mountaintops the corpses have bloodthorns and spears coming out of them. Messmers spear is almost identical to the spears jutting out of their corpses, and in the promotion image where he’s seated you can see bloodthorns in his flame. This also explains why his hair is red, because he was cursed by the giants for what he did, similar to Radagon. I think he turned to blasphemy to be able to kill the giants so he had to be banished for it.
I do think that Marika would be able to conceal / hide her plans from Radagon. "Thou art yet to become me. Thou art yet to become a god." As if she is still capable of things that he cannot even fathom. Now that we seem to be unraveling the mystery of her veil, and the fact that she shattered the Elden Ring successfully despite the Golden Order zealotry of Radagon, it seems she's quite capable of deception. I'm still unsure if they were always one person or if perhaps she made him. If she was always imprisoned, crucified, and could not leave, would she create her own avatar? Or would she create him with the intention of keeping him under her control? Perhaps something went wrong (she couldn't keep the Golden Order/Elden Beast/ Greater Will out of the formula), and Radagon was ultimately no longer her servant but a servant to the Greater Will. Side note: We've previously theorized that only women or demigods with more "feminine" personas can be an Empyrean (i.e. Miquella). I do wonder if the Gold Mask ending is meant to effectively usurp Marika (still using her body as a vessel) through Radagon and achieve "Perfect Order". Is the body of the Empyrean THE most important aspect? Can an alter ego effectively create a new order? Following that thought, could Godwyn have been an Empyrean once? Was Marika the God of the Age of the Dragonlord? Was Godwyn born of that union with the Dragonlord or was Godwyn born only of his mother Marika, as a true Empyrean? Tarnished Archeologist theorized that Ranni may have targeted Godwyn because he was her betrothed. I think this is also very interesting. Can two Empyreans wed? What effect does that have on the Golden Order? Marika being offered up as an unwilling vessel tracks with (what seems to be) her desperation to free herself from the Greater Will. If her father is the old man from the trailer, his punishment would befit his crime. Once she became a God-Queen, she intended for him to suffer. Much like Gideon's words to us that Queen Marika intends for us to suffer. I've always been so curious about Marika. My thought in the beginning of the game was that we were trying to save Queen Marika. That she had been locked away, or had disappeared and it was up to the Tarnished to find her and save her by becoming Elden Lord. I really hope we learn all about her. It's a shame that when we finally meet her, she's a husk. Puppeted by those who she fought so hard against.
The more I think about Marika and Radagon the more I think that Radagon is Marika's pawn. He doesn't see the whole picture, but Marika does. I also wonder how he must have felt learning he is Marika, how would that type of revelation have affected him? For Empryeans, its important to know that GRRM is a feminist and writes feminist stories. I am not sure about Miyazaki but based on his previous games I also think he has feminist tendencies. That is all to say that it is in line with their world beliefs to have women being controlled or used because of their bodies (much like in the real world). Empryeans being only female tracks on a story level and philosophical level. But how can Miquella be an Empryean, and the most fearsome one at that, the same way he is cursed with "eternal youth". He has Klinefelter syndrome, or XXY chromosomes. I would recommend looking up the symptoms and then thinking about how eternal youth and androgyny could be derived from them. I also think we know more about Marika than we realize. Since I go over this in my next video Ill just say this: your first DLC character should not burn the Erdtree, should have Miquella's needle, and should have the Darkmoon Ring. Pure speculation though ;)
maybe messmer is melina's alter ego? kinda like how miquella is st.trina? this game likes their duality shit, with the alter ego being their opposite gender (marika and radagon)
Also concerning the blessed dew talisman description, heres a quote from a finger reader: Surely you see it, too? The gold that enshrouds the heavens. The great tree which begets the pillars of light. O Tarnished, hasten to the foot of the tree. The grace of gold is said to give us visions of grace that guide us around. What if the entire glowing image of the erdtree is just another vision from grace? The erdtree becoming an object of faith on the talisman tells me that at some point, the tarnished had to BELIEVE the erdtree was still there. Why would the finger reader ask if we can see the GIANT GOLDEN TREE unless it wasn't guaranteed that everyone could see it? This would also explain why the burning erdtree image requires destined death to be unleashed. The image of the erdtree is just a symbolic representation of the cycle of life and death being unleashed means that symbol must not have otherworldly permanence. It also explains why the erdtree can just burn continually and never get any smaller. It ALSO explains the weird inner tree which we enter to fight radagon at the end of the game. The weird inner tree IS what is left of the real erdtree and the glowing golden tree is pure illusion.
oh yo, one thing about the soreseals. everything you say is true, but they have a hidden meaning too. The shape you see is something they "beheld" that made them feel they had a lifelong duty akin to a curse, because of what they saw. It burned into their eyes as they became gods. Marika looks like she saw an eclipse and Radagon saw the elden ring break. But the symbols can also be used as what they now symbolize, Radagon like a blacksmith is holding the lattice together with what he has learned, perhaps even tempering it. I think Marika witnessed the collapse of the sun realm, it's shield sports a crumbling or eroded foundation and the eclipse icons sometimes look like the sun bleeds something. The thing Marika may have witnessed is the blood star, a bleeding sun wounded by something dark. There are actually a few different weapons helphens steeple and crucible tree spear, that seem like weapons pointed at the sun , but the crucible tree spear does a spinny projectile ash of war, that if it was tree pointed at the sun, would be like a giant spinning horned tree shot the sun. The spear looks similar to deathroot tree stumps forming near mariners, but complete with crucible horns and eyes of death.
Fun fact about the glowing meteorites at 00:19:23, they kinda look like the Fukang meteorite, which is a pallasite. "The Fukang pallasite contains large, gem quality olivine, or peridot, in a nickel-iron matrix."
Thank you very much for your carefully put together videos. I really enjoy listening to them in the background. (I often put them on when I play other games lol. Grinding FF14 while listening to Elden Ring lore, hehe.) I also really like your thumbnails btw. I think they are visually appealing and have a very distinct design. The reddish triangle-ish shape and the white font make your thumbnails very easy and clear to read (both literally as well as visually) while also making them stand out against the thumbnails that many other video game youtubers commonly use. Grabs my attention a lot better than many other thumbnails.
I have a friend who is a professional graphic designer who helped design the template for my thumbnails, its great to hear you like his work and mine! The videos that he did the whole thumbnail you can find his socials in the description.
Seeing that the Greater Will/Erdtree becomes the primary monotheistic religion, similar to Christianity, I think that comparison makes sense. The sewers were first, the catacombs came afterwards.
This is a great format and idea! A few things: I definitely agree with you that Farum Azula is part of the Sun Realm, and it'd be very interesting if it became the Shadow Realm! I think the Banished and Exiled Knights are the last human vestiges of that civilization. Also, Marika always has the crucified pose because it's the shape of her Elden Rune, and the Scarseal item is referring to Radagon in its description rather than the Zamor Knight, since it's Radagon's eye and Elden Rune, a reference to Odin sacrificing his eye to drink from the Well of Memory. Why a Zamor Knight has it in the Weeping Peninsula is anyone's guess, though.
Tarnished archeology has a good analysis of the Erd tree and specifically the symbol of faith. 1:13ish you talk about this and I think you really should reconsider your timeline. I agree with TA that the Erd tree was burnt once before and that the tree we see in game is the spirit of the ashes of the tree.
VaatiiVidia is for those who wanna know the story... Queelag, Tarnished Archeologist and Jack are for those who want to understand Elden Ring... Another great video
The aspects of the Crucible may have been banned in TLB when Godfrey was banished and once Radagon became Elden Lord. To me it's the time when it makes the most sense. Great job with your Lore videos, one of the best out there 🤘
New to the channel but I love this kind of content, passionate fans expressing the interest and knowledge of a subject is something I live for, keep up the fantastic work!
Thanks Jack for pointing it out again Great Video🔥🔥 Yes as you fight Radagon, his Name is exactly- a Dragon of the Golden Order- Its a Champions Title so to speak In Farum Azula that Statue is for sure Radagon, who is also Marika. If the Rune of Death and the Rune of the Unborn where once Part of the Elden Ring that would explain the GEQ Era and also the Crucible Era. Two Removed pieces and two forgotten, barely mentioned Time Periods. It’s no coincidence.. The Only missing piece is Miquella Rune to get the Full Picture. Also Miranda could be the Name of the GEQ who could be Marikas Twin Sister. And the First War before the Age of the Erdtree could have been Marika with her Crucible Army against Miranda(GEQ) Army. Messmer being Godwyns Twin Brother is also a Nice Theory
I like to think that Messmer is Radagon’s grandson, rather than a direct heir. Messmer is most likely not a legitimate heir either, not being mentioned by Morgott in his speech about the elden throne before you fight him. Perhaps Messmer isn’t even in possession of a great rune of his own. My theory is that he’s the bastard son of Rykard, continuing in his father’s legacy after Rykard became corrupted. Messmer has the right hair colour for it, he uses fire primarily just as Rykard does in his boss fight (and his boss weapon), and is associated with a serpent. Rykard’s title of “praetor” is Latin, translating roughly to “judge”. Rykard’s role in the golden order was most likely as some sort of grand inquisitor or legislative figure. Furthermore, Messmer is most likely a jailer of sorts, and the land of Shadow may be the “penal colony” mentioned in the armor description of the exile soldiers, who are affiliated with the banished knights and appear in most places where the banished knights do, as well as both of them being exiled from some other location. Finally, Messmer’s magic that he wields appears to resemble thorn sorcery, a magic used by those who had been blinded by thorns as punishment for being criminals of the golden order and witnessed the blood star. All of this together paints a picture of Messmer being a figure associated with punishing the enemies of the erdtree, with the banished knights (who are covered in red cloth and dragon motifs) being either servants of Messmer or former servants of Messmer. Messmer also appears to be associated with dragon communion, and the banished knights in farum azula use what looks like dragon communion magic, which I think further solidifies the connection
"I don't think you see any Banished Knights in Leyndell" Funnily enough in the 1.00 pre-day one patch console disc version them and the exiles are in Leyndell with the oracle envoys absent entirely until you get to the Haligtree. That version is basically a dev build that they stamped onto the discs--the youtuber BertoPlease did a long exploration of that version's idiosyncrasies and is planning on releasing a three hour forty minute compilation tomorrow. Ratatoskr and SmoughTown had a neat podcast episode on the former's channel about the DLC that was quite interesting, but one of the points was the scene with Miquella at the end of the trailer seems to take place at the end of the DLC. The sap has stopped dripping from the shadow tree, a brighter canopy is viewable from above the dark branches, and as they point out: most interestingly of all the veil is missing. They referred back to one of the interviews where Miyazaki said it will be obvious that you've completed the DLC, and speculated that this means the Land of Shadow gets reintegrated into the Lands Between. If that's true I'm absolutely going to have to avoid spoilers for a good couple weeks because I do NOT want to see such an event prematurely. Also in that podcast they speculate that Messmer is Marika's first born child, with the statue behind him only having a single child, with the storytelling purpose that the weight of expectation of being that firstborn was the cause of his downfall. The Albinauric Mask raises Arcane by 4, half as much as the silver tear mask. I really hope they add an arcane boosting talisman and physick tear in the DLC--they still seem to view it as the dump stat when Elden Ring made great strides in letting it be useful beyond item discovery. The smoldering butterflies are one of your main points of access to fire damage in the early game, that and prophets' visions of the Erdtree burning. All of the fire pots and fire grease coming from the exiled firstborn... The Dragons' elemental resistances are as follows (source: Boblord's spreadsheet): Decaying Ekzykes: -100% fire, -40% other elements (i.e. takes double damage from fire sources) Glintstone Dragons Smarag and Adula: 80% magic, 40% other elements(i.e. takes only 20% of the elemental damage dealt) Agheel, Greyll, Placidusax: 40% all elements Ancient Dragon Lansseax: 80% lightning, 40% other elements Lichdragon Fortissax: 80% lightning and holy, 40% fire and magic Also, do you have a program that parses the text in a video you're looking at as actual text to copy/paste and so on? If so neat. (that's a big enough comment, if I have more thoughts today or tomorrow I'll write a reply to this one)
(if it isn't clear by my lengthy comments, I love this format of video, please do this again) Tarnished Archaeologist makes the point that the catacombs predated the Erdtree, and its roots merely sought out the places with the most corpses, just as normal roots would seek out the place with the most water. It's so funny seeing a normal player after my inordinate amount of time spent doing an RL1 low to no weapon upgrade challenge run gave me matrix bullet time for most of the game's bosses Also remember you can use the item chest to clean up your inventory of duplicate items gathered in NG+ runs I think one of the candle stand old codgers leads you to the cave with Latenna at the end (FIND THE ALBINAURIC WOMAN) I said in a previous comment, but those underpinning ruins appear in the DLC and feature prominently in the additional screenshot in the place with all the greenery (which might be a part of Caelid which was excised from the Lands Between and thus spared of the scarlet rot, in a roundabout way granting us a look at that without resorting to time travel) As a technical criticism of this video, you should get a hotkey or whatever to obscure the image of yourself in cases where it overlaps with dialogue subtitles like with Melina in the middle of the stream. A niche gameplay tip: if you mash attack and block you can escape some grabs early. It works for example on the abductor virgins and dates back to either Dark Souls or Demon's Souls. I love all of the tree symbolism in this game, even down to "Enemy Felled" or similar which greets you when you kill any sub-godly boss, and I really love Radagon's trellis. The podcast from the last comment pointed out that the Preceptor's Helm has that trellis sealing its mouth, as described in the "Mask of Confidence", and that trellis is an Elden Rune. Imo this fully dispels any idea that Radagon wasn't Marika when married to Renalla. (that's it for tonight. I'll surely write another comment tomorrow)
I read both of your comments and need to give your information some thought, thank you for all of this you get an A+ lol. Can you clarify what you mean about parsing the text? I have a dump file with all of the text in Elden Ring saved on my computer if that is what you are referencing.
@@JackisaMimic I mean when you hover your cursor over text in your footage, the cursor changes to the vertical bar that indicates it's text you can highlight and copy
@@minerman60101 Oh okay, its a feature built into MacOS, it will 'read' text in images or videos. The gameplay was recorded on a PS5 and this is a screen capture of me watching it on my Mac in QuickTime.
@@JackisaMimic I have finished the video and will now post the final of my trilogy of comments: The ghost talking about the Tower of Return is one of the wandering nobles (you can see it clad in the Aristocrat set). They left Leyndell during the Shattering, which is why this one talking about that tower. That Divine Bridge keeps me up at night. After writing that line I went and warped around the divine towers for over an hour lol. I backtracked to Sealed Tunnel's Onyx Lord arena and got jumpscared by all the Radagon statues (sword only). I realized that there is precedent for a Divine Bridge changing direction in Morgott/Mohg's tower, which has that big circular room with an elevator down to the forbidden lands. Its top room also has a bunch of Radagon statues (book only). Weirdly enough, you cannot see the path from Sealed Tunnel to Rykard's Divine Tower from anywhere outside of that Divine Tower worldspace: the new terrain is simply placed on top of the rocks you can see from afar (you can tell where the different texture resolutions meet on the west side of the path). The Divine Towers also have a unique milk-green and clouded sky when you're at their top. The Isolated Divine Tower, being the shortest of the bunch, has the area below the elevator platform far more filled in with rock. The second shortest one of course lets you get to its rocky bottom to fight a Godskin Apostle, so this is just a nice worldbuilding coherence detail. I took another look at that segment of the story trailer with the siege of Leyndell that showed an additional segment of the Divine Bridge and that's not the only structure which is more complete: the Minor Erdtree Church is there and still has its top. Also, when you kill Maliketh and fully burn the Erdtree, some of its branches start to wilt down and a massive one falls into the sea. I'm curious whether these will pierce through the veil of the Land of Shadow at all. I'm curious why the only mention of the Sun Realm has such a low drop rate from such a select group of enemies... Anyway I definitely would like to see you look at all of the Divine Towers--these things have entranced me since the game launched and I feel like they still have so many secrets.
I been trying to find hints and connections to Messmer. I been reading a lot of item descriptions and here are my conclusions. My big take away is that he was likely a dragon hunter during the time of the crucible. His pet snake also partook in eating dragons and might be the reason it has wings. At some point he lost an eye and he to saw the blood star (Like Mogh). The Blood star is likely to be the flame inside the caldron the Fire giant protects. He eventually reached the flame and communicated with the Formless mother. It also might help explain why thorns are used to represent a guilty individual and why we see fire monks and the Thorn Sorcerer together and also why Fire prelates wield Thorn whips, that are said to be inspired by Briars of sin. One important detail about communing with the formless mother is that the worshipper need to blind and punish themselves. The thorn sorcerers impale themselves, Mogh impales the formless mother and his eye has been impaled by his horn, Messmer is called the impaler. He was eventually killed or sealed away for blasphemy, possibly burning Erdtree the first time (tarnished archeologist pointed out that the tree was likely burned once and it is likely why we need grace to see the Erdtree). After his defeat the gladiators were likely dressed to look like Messmer as punishment for their crimes and to reminds crowds the win over a blasphemous foe. This are some of the items that are likely related to Messmer in some way and can support the theory above. -The giant's seal -Burn O Flame! -Flame of the Fell God -Bloodboon -Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear -Briars of Punishment -Flame Sling. -Dragon Communion Seal -Drake Knight Set -Duelist Helm -Devourer's Scepter -Blasphemous Blade -Staff of the Guilty -Fire Monk Hood -Shield of the Guilty -Guilty Hood -Thorned Whip -Depraved Perfumer Robe (two red snakes embroider in the front)
I had always wondered, how the smoldering butterfly just did not feel like it went to melina for me, has she wasnt very involved in the areaand I made the same conclusion that the butterflies was for each one, this was great, your perspective is very fresh you could be a historian
so here 32:17 when we find Smoldering butterflies and St. Trina's Lily (St. Trina Chris*Tina just saying) when i was on Altus Plateau the other day, there's this mini valley cul-de-sac where you find a Mother + Child statue hugging, physique as if comforting the minor/protective. there are some baby octopuses around (which freaks me out). in the front where you enter are nascent butterflies. so miquella is represented in an object as both StT and M in lands between. dimensionally speaking we still have this riddle of how a MarikaRadagon could be not-two in the same "place", lands between, as well as a St.TrinaMiquella. i am beyond dying to know 🫣 i am hexpecting Shadow Lands to meet some of our curiosity rising from all this duality symbolism!! 💜
At the risk of an unpopular opinion. I don't think Messmer is Radagon's kid in the same way as Miquella and Malenia. I think Messmer's red hair isn't meant to link him so much with Radagon but to link him with the fallen era of the Crucible. Red was the color associated to the Crucible. The presence of severed fire giant heads on the Wickerman, a weapon used in the war against the previous age, along with continued animosity after that war leads me to think the giants were pro Crucible. At this point, of the idea that he is the Eldest of all the children of Marika though not the child of any Elden Lord, at least any we've met. I have a terrible thought in my head because his story was written by G.R.R.M. about who his father is but I don't wanna say something so gross an be wrong. On another note, I've recently stopped considering Marika's statue pose as a crucifixion pose. No one knows where she is or what she is doing so there is no logic they would make statues of her crucified. As silly as it sounds I think she is posing as a tree. Crucifixes don't mean the same thing in the Lands Between as they do in our world. But if you are a god and you need an iconic pose and your big thing you made is a giant tree, perhaps that would influence the pose you strike. Radagon, when he takes over isn't mimicing crucifixion with his arms out, he's doing Golden Order totality as we all know. The worshipped likeness of a religious figure is often depicted of their most iconic moment. I think Marika's pose is meant to illustrate the Goddess and the Tree are the same thought. Her head being down may be meant to symbolize how she is watching, or how the blessings flow down. The statue of her in Messmer's room in the trailer has her cradling a child, which may have been built before the tree. Her prior persona may have been that of the Holy Mother rather than the Goddess of the Erdtree. That child was significant to the people in that place. Messmer's significance to the people in the Lands that would be Shadowed may have played apart in his abandonment or imprisonment. I assume this because there are literally no other maternal images of Marika. Though she keeps having kids, she seems to abandon the concept of maternity once she is established in the Lands Between. She even caged some of her kids (Omen Twins). (Sorry for the wall of text.)
What you said made me think of something about the statues and their poses. I do think you are right that in the Lands Between Marika's pose is probably supposed to evoke tree imagery, but the lore of Elden Ring was written by GRRM the ex-Catholic. When we look at crucification imagery of Jesus Christ its made up of two parts: Jesus nailed to the cross. Marika's pose in her statues evoke the same position that you see in Crucifixion imagery with the head being slouched and the arms being slightly above the head. The second part of the crucification is the cross itself: the wood shaped in a T for which someone can be crucified. This is the pose that Radagon does. Separately it doesn't make much sense but when you put them together you get the full picture. Marika hung on the Radagon cross? Just a thought I had reading your comment. Ill have to draw up an image
@@JackisaMimic Since I have your attention for the moment let me get an outside opinion. I've seen folks discuss that the Shadow Lands were probably in the center of the inland sea. But I've been of the mindset that they may have been attached to the Forbidden Lands. The Forbidden Lands are pretty much right next to the Erdtree yet it is perpetually dark and hazy there. The shape of the Forbidden Lands is also unnatural and implies missing land. When I saw the trailer and got to the part with the player throwing knives at what looks like a dark spirit the landscape behind that spirit seemed to have the same black fog. Not to mention the question of why the lands are forbidden. (If it was because of the Mountain Top of the Giants then shouldn't the mountain be "The Forbidden Mountain"). I'm eager to see if anyone aside from me thinks there is something to this. If there is I use to think that the lands were hosting red grace but what if it is something like a lingering trace of Messmer's flame.
I'm just really curious where the Shadowlands are on the map. I'm thinking they are in between the Weeping Penninsula/Limgrave and Liurnia. Maybe the Weeping Penninsula wasn't always a penninsula. We already know Farum Azula was once connected to Caelid with a bridge. It's like Radagon/TGW can edit the world and history by removing parts of it, just as parts of the Elden Ring can be removed and modified. And that's why Jingle All the Way is one of the greatest films ever made. It's a story of desire, the will to power and change, in which men fight over a sacred object with the power to bring happiness to their children. But, the film asks, at what cost? What is the point, when all it does is separate a man from his loved ones and make him forget what really matters? That's a beautiful reminder that sometimes all we need is love to shrive clean the hearts of men.
An interesting find in the environment near the Messmer’s Butterflies section (43:17) there’s a ledge you can drop off near that cliff and there’s a few landsquirts, erdleaf flowers, and the Eclipse crest heater shield with a wandering mausoleum visible in the distance. If those random fire spots w butterflies found in TLB signify Messmer’s flame, then this small piece of the map has a bunch of connections in one area; Messmer(fire ablaze and butterflies), Miquella&Godwyn(eclipse shield), Death (landsquirts&mausoleum), and Golden Order(minor erdtree& erdleaf flowers)
I've also thought the main character as a Mimic, in order to make the perfect elden lord, you create one and the FIRST thing we see (what I believe) is the inside of the Erdtree
should look into why we can become a lord while Gydion belives a man can kill a god,also we being a mimic of marika's design using golden sap or tear husk is sth i don't believe in but is intresting
Its probably due to it still processing, the video is quite long so that may be why. I have audio wathcing it in an incognito window on a different computer.
Love your channel. Another great video and i enjoyed the freestyle format. Here are some things ive noticed in going back through some locations. Guardians garrison has a ton of smoldering butterflies, they also wield abhorrent sorceries, wear thorns, and wield fire. Right to the south of guardians garrison are some of the spears that impale the giants minus the giants, so you can get a good look at them. You can see a clear symbol on them. To me the symbol looks a lot like the golden thing impaling the old man from the trailer. There spear shape matches Messmers spear to a T to me. Also the troll hammer weapon looks just like the symbol on the old mans cloak clasp in the trailer. Also to my understanding GRRM wrote all the characters and their heroic trates. He made up all their powers and wrote the history of the golden order from beginning to end. Fromsoft then took this history and destroyed and corrupted it and wrote their story. George wrote the history, fromsoft wrote the present. From what i read. Just some things to think about. Cant wait for more videos so we can all get a little bit closer to the big picture.
!!! I'm so glad you're doing this breakdown! Crazy idea, but I noticed in some of the frames and in other lore deep dive videos its mentioned a boat of Tarnished was left behind, you mentioned this in the Rusted Anchor! What if the boat left behind in the Shadows of Erdtree trailer is what became of the Tarnished who were left behind? What if Messmer was ordered out of the Lands between then decided not to leave?
I really enjoyed this Lore along Style video very chill in-between your other work. I often thought about Godwyn's lineage. it's a bit different from what I believe you are suggesting, but I had thought that he could be a child of Godfrey and a mistress or concubine, but used as a poster child other than Marika and Godfrey's kids. This might be where his strength to fight dragons comes from, along with the fact he tacks the God prefix and has no afflictions. Not sure just a thought.
I’ve noticed that everything Marika has done had effects that directly benefited herself and the golden order. Whatever happened to make her go against the Greater Will was still her calculated plan. Marika is the main character in a story told by the side characters. I wish we could see what George R. R. Martin ACTUALLY wrote. They would make near billions if they released that.
Two of my goals for this channel is to prove that Elden Ring is firmly a GRRM story and that Marika is a sympathetic victim in our story. I hope you continue to watch my videos and that I can make that perspective seem plausible to you.
I think you’re onto something with Godwyn being more dragon related than just a dragon ally. It is associated with the crucible in my opinion and the demihumans. The natural native peoples and creatures of the lands between i believe are all related to dragons. That’s why the crucible is associated with dragon related features like horns and wings and feathers and scales and tails. This is why in my opinion, Godrick, with dragons sewn into his sash, says to the dragon head before he grafts it into himself “thou art a true born heir…” True born heir to whom? To what? To the dragon ancestors that Godfrey and thereby Godwyn and eventually Godrick are related to. It is said that Godrick seeks an older power. Grafting in an attempt to be as amorphous in form as a demihuman, with dragon parts.
Radagon potentially having statues in all those different places makes me think he may be a very ancient being too. Perhaps he even existed first and it was Marika who he created or became at a much later date.
i think the winged scythe could be referencing the singing bat woman. One variant, on ruin strewn precipice, could cast death rancor. The lyrics of their song could represent their fall from grace from priestess/envoy of death role in pagan society. A lot of eldenring 'beast' enemies (bats, octopuses, demihumans) are very strange i think. The demihumans have connection with the fallen ruin (ruinstone, glowing stone drops) and sewing (string drop and boc). The octopuses are the strangest since they could behave very human (working together with vulgar militia in hidden path to haligtree, lisening to the singing bat woman on ruin strewn precipice), venture far from water being in strange places (near amber starlight, very high up on ruin strewn precipice). My theory is that these enemies have deeper part in the history of the lands between. My instinct tell me that they could be former human/people (demihuman: former inhabitant of the sky temple, bats: twinbird worshippers, octopuses: the description on the helmet they drop could be a hint) because of their behavior, form, and placement that are stranger compared to more animalistic beast (bear, hawk, wolf) and they all have matriarchal family/culture (cursed numen? Idk). This is just my thought.
Well its a very good thought because monsters being former humans is a GRRM trope in his Thousand World series, as well as in ASOIAF. Many of his stories take place in worlds where humanity has regressed and the "monsters" they face (such as vampires, ice zombies, or multi-limbed creatures) are in fact just genetically altered humans from centuries or thousands of years in the past. So I think your theory is right on the money. How it works in Elden Ring is uncertain, but I would suspect that the similarities aren't an accident. I bet you have never read Bitterblooms or In The House of the Worm, yet you came to a similar conclusion!
Thats very interesting because i'm not familiar with GRRM works, not even game of thrones. From what you said, GRRM (and Miyazaki) seems to often recycle themes and ideas that works. So the 'clues' that these type of enemies give might lead to something. And in my opinion the clues are not hidden, like why would they put the singing bat woman in the game (which on the early version of eldenring are just regular bats singing the same lyrics). There are clear evidence of regression. The dogs on farum azula drop ruin fragment, implying that they were once beastmen. The dragons are regressing. The warriors that become magma wyrm could also symbolize regression. The ancestral worshipper dwell the hellenic style ruins could be its original people. This got me thinking, maybe the eternal city numen created artificial life (that are silver/metallic based) so they are immune to regression. Thanks for replying! These ideas have been in my mind for a long time and I haven't seen any coverage on this topic.
amazing yo, Ive been wanting to hear someones thoughts on marika's crucifiction in her churches. The location of sacred tears are placed in a way that it looks like she cried them out, she also looks sad in most if not all pictures of her. There is a strange similarity to her churches and the being in the briar greatshield, with the placement of undead to the left and right, and the leader in the middle being a solitary ascetic. Both are insinuated to be guilty of something, but the shield mentions that they are foreigners in this land. The being in the shield looks a tad different from Marika but a similar face, She is wearing red and dancing with a sword above her head. It looks like a twisty dance that is evoking red, black and gold flames that also look like flowers blooming from. One of the undead looks like its reaching out to hug her, and is burning to ash that feeds the flowers or flames sprouting from below her. There are these soldiers called fallen hawks in Nokron that burn themselves for torches. These soldiers experienced something that stopped normal pillagers and hunters by the name of inverted hawks from burning wood or plants in their bonfires, now they burn themselves in accordance to the culture of either the nox or ancestor followers, only burning oils or anything besides the trees, because the stone trees are the remains of the ancestor followers. These hawk soldeiers that have converted are now called fallen hawks instead of inverted hawks and they look horrible compared to even some hollows. They are also in close proximity to where we will be able to enter the shadow world. But now the DLC released a woman dancing in red with swords, and a boat in the background that looks similar to the boats on the stone tablets. I believe that stone tablet can be read both ways, reading it upwards describes the ancestor followers death process of becoming trees and eventually sailing the stars, reading it downwards though, one of these same star sailing boats crashes down into a tree, one who's people would search downwards for treasure and power, pillagers in nature.
also concerning the table of lost grace: its related to the erdtree as in it seems to be a PART of it i.e. it burns when u burn the tree. Memories of champions are hewn into the erdtree... perhaps the table of lost grace is a memory of the fortified manor at its best point.
I didn't notice until now that the three different medallions have different designs in their centers. Also the Banished Knights really must've been some serious badasses (no duh right ?) they're even associated with that fringefolk hero grave which I take to mean they were truly honored warriors. And those guys can cast dragon communion spells which you don't see very often at least not until later on in the game
as you noted, Lokey had confirmed that it’s different kanji for “impaler” used in Messmer’s name vs the impaler catacombs (the later referring to the spikes that impale you) and that, as you also noted, the ghost speaking outside the church seems to be referring to the walking mausoleums (not Messmer)
Yeah the Impaler's Catacomb is a bit of a let down, it makes sense that the name may be just a mistranslation. Still, I think we learned something fun by looking the conflict between the being of the Crucible and the Banished Knight culture on the Weeping Peninsula !
@@JackisaMimic totally! loved the whole investigation. You know, i had never considered the Radagon / a dragon anagram! learn something new from you every video!
My pet theory has always been that the empyreans represent the various gods that vie for power in the lands between. Malenia is the avatar of the rot god. Which feels more like a corrupted god of life, or rebirth, with a possible connection to the ancient kingdom. Ranni is the avatar of the dark moon, the corrupted god of the nox. The dark moon seeming like a corruption of the moon. Miquela is the avatar of the erdtree, free of the elden beasts corruption through the power of unalloyed gold Messmer is the avatar of the fell flame, the god of the giants. A pure flame corrupted, thus the darkness. You can also make the connection to the god eating snake. It always felt like the gods of the lands between were more naturalistic and then corrupted by the influence of the outer gods, like the elden beast corrupting the erdtree.
side note, the banished knights armor, particularly the altered helmet cloth, look identical to the cloth in messmer's armor both are red with gold fringes
There appear to be bigger, demi-human-esque enemies in the DLC. People assume that demi-humans are just evolutinarily pre-human, but maybe something about why Messmer was hidden away, or even the birth of the Erdtree, had something to do with how they came about? They may be a more recent development than it appears, which would be neat imo.
We see this currently with the Misbegotten, they are held to be a "punishment" for making contact with the Crucible. So we know that people can turn into less human like creatures. This falls in line with many GRRM's sci-fi stories where humanity regresses into primal states do to losses of technology or genetic manipulation.
my speculation on marika's statues being in a crucifixion pose is that her crucifixion was probably prophecized. Prophets (like Corhyn, or your character if you choose that starting class) glimpsed the burning of the Erdtree, which is why they know flame incantations. They saw the burning, but not its context. Likewise, I think they saw Marika's crucifixion, but not *why* she was being crucified. their worship of marika perhaps led them to theorize that she would martyr herself (like Jesus, which is what the pose is obviously reminiscent of), but actually what happened is that she was crucified for shattering the elden ring.
Since we know that Marika "first set foot" in the shadow lands, I think that weird phrasing is intentional. She is a Nox, meaning she came from deep underground. I suspect that we are not just going to get one new dlc area, we are also going to get another massive underground area to play through, which is where Marika came from.
Sources? Marika is Numen not Nox, Numen and Nox being related isn't confirmed, and Marika being called "the Eternal" doesn't mean she came from the Eternal Cities. And the Eternal Cities were not always underground, and that is confirmed. They were banished underground.
Marika is a numen and the Nox are likely a faction of numen working against Marika. The Nox have also shown that they are inspired by the Sky and its magic, like the Astrologers but have come up with different magic and pursued different magics from them.
Marika has close ties to the black knife assassins, who are rumored to come from the eternal cities. That is why I believe marika also came from the eternal cities, such as the city of Nokron. Miyazaki stated the shadow lands are "the first place in the lands between that she stepped foot". He did not say "this is where marika came from" or "this the place Marika was born". That is my evidence that we'll be getting two massive DLC areas. Underground in a new eternal city and above ground in the shadow lands.
Mesmer was the slayer of the fire giants, also he embodies EVERY aspect that goes against the erdtree. He has giantflame, he has briars of sin, he has dragon communion and he has some sort of gelmir serpent? He is the embodyment of blasphemy. Also I beleive Farum was lifted from the shadow land not the lands between.
You should do Stormveil since the exiles drop the Messmer butterfly and its a veil. Also starting to believe that Messmer killed baby Melenia to burn the erdtree the first time but who knows
Idk much about elden Lore, but i imagine if Marika could create an age eternal, she would have someone be a vessal like maliketh into taking or being the host of these ruinous affinities since it would be easier to control a world if you also have the affinities that cant be stamped out or destroyed completely under your heel instead
I'd love to hear your opinion on why the demi- human queens have tattoos. Historically, tattoos were meant as rights of passage in certain cultures, and medicine or acupuncture in others. Maybe it's why the Raya Lucaria scholars were interested in teaching them magic?
I go over the demihumans briefly in my Carian History video. The fools at the academy sneered when, I assume, Rennala gifted staves to the Demihumans. Just because they are not as "civilized" as humans they still have hierarchy, they still have a culture, when their leader dies they become disorganized, and their matriarchs are queens. The significance of the tattoos is unknowable, but what we do know is that they must have significance. Just because demihumans dont speak like you or I does not mean they do not deserve the same respect as we do. They are living beings with thoughts, feelings, history, and a future.
Personally I think the banished knight is there to stop the communion along with ekzykes. They also have horns which seems to be the theme of the previous civilisation in the dlc. Maybe Mesmer’s flame (combined blood, chaos and black flame) and the dragon communion are the opposite to the this crucible themed faction and the banished knights couldn’t stop Mesmer taking their land?
hey jack also wanted to say the figure you say is marika's father is the one in my opinion depicted in statues as a bald figure holding a bloom or a flower
Reddit and some other lore communities have also been talking about the impaling catacombs and I think the consensus it’s more of a mistranslation. The Impaling catacombs is a verb with no subject and more likely in reference to the catacombs itself. I wish it was connected but maybe a non-sewer water Messmer is better than a sewer-water loving Messmer.
I wanna point out something from the famicom interview: Miyazaki uses a weird phrase for the Lands between that gets translated as 'the world of interstice' in some translations. I've always thought the lands between was a reference to interstice and its nice to have it confirmed. Even without the reference to interstice, the lands between implies the existence of two other lands sandwiching it. I think ppl are missing the implication of the land of shadow... it implies there is some other land of light on the OTHER side of the lands between
hey I watched your eclipse video the other day and it gave me the realization that the eclipse Miquella was actually looking for was the shadow of the erdtree. If the sun is represented by the erdtree, then the shadow of the erdtree could be seen as an eclipse (eclipses cause shadows, also there's a second tree wrapping around the shadow tree "eclipsing" it?). This goes really well with my other theory that the land of shadow is the realm of the dead, where things would go when they died before Marika got rid of death and the erdtree replaced the afterlife. This could explain why there are old cultures there as Miyazaki says, since no new things would die and be sent there, leaving those in the shadow realm lost to time. It is referred to as a realm at the end of the trailer by who I think is Miquella. Miyazaki also said that it occupies the same space as the lands between, which I think could mean its a realm layered on top of ours (or one is eclipsing the other). It could be more like a norse realm which is why Marika first stepped foot there (inter-realm travel) but I'm not sure how the erdtree could have been born there regardless to if my theory is wrong. Also the connection between death and dreams could explain why there's a giant baldachin over the lands. Other evidence is Miquella having to leave his body to go the shadow realm, and I think this is part of him trying to help Godwyn which is why the eclipse could be tied to it. Keep in mind we have to defeat Radahn to enter the DLC, maybe to free the stars since it's tied to the eclipse? Reddit user garrulous_goldmask made an interesting point too "Enia tells the Tarnished that 'the Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation…' (So technically three names, but who's counting) If the Golden Order = the Erdtree And the Rune of Death/Destined Death = the forbidden shadow of the Golden Order Then the forbidden shadow of the Erdtree = the Rune of Death/Destined Death"
I have a theory that marika and the Newman are the result of interbreeding between beast men and dragons in the human form explaining how maliketh is her half brother
Your head would explode if you read GRRM's Thousand Worlds. There is a lot of 'interbreeding' between humans and what appear to be aliens to create these beastmen hybrids. Some are giant man eating bats and others are tunneling multilimb monstrosities that look like Royal Revenants. I should probably do a video on all of the cross overs between Elden Ring and his other works.
eardtree burial for me means that you feed a tree with souls for it to grow and develop sap,like a real tree uses water at its roots to grow, and also that why the golden order is against does who live in death and also that why cultures in the lands between was apposed to it because it repurposed your soul,and this repuposing soul is what gaves marika and her chosen the power to conquer all lands between and in the shadow of erdtree we see how this way of life came to be also our tarnished needing to die in another land for marika to use them in her plan as her she needs this factor to happen to be albe to use the tarnished without it being influenced by the Greater will
oh damn u elaborate on this in the video i wrote my comment,i think the hive mind theory is like the effects of minor eardtrees into the life around them in DOTA2 lore some cosmic beings can effect the will of life forces around them and corrupt their mind into working for them
hey jack just also wanted to say i call this way that you are engaging with the game a lorethrough i played all fromsoft games before elden ring and i enjoyed the games difficulty and challange alot as it was the selling poing ot the game but as a person interested in literature i loved narrative games like witcher 3 more and didn't engange with the story of the game while playing it because everybody said the story is obscure and you just have to watch YT vids about it to understand when ER came out it i was working on my thesis about world building in fantasy literature also i talked about Tolkien and SOIF as modern popular examples and when i heared this games setting was written by GRR Martin i engaged with the game as you did,read every item thought about the environment and what is happening to the architecture and which part of map are in the weather of the area and the geometry and also the culture of diffrent types of enemy and creatures this land and i loved this game more than everything and alao it made the game much more easier because i used everything and me engaging with the difficulty level also got better it saddens me that people play this beautiful works of art without engaging with it fully and the difficulty and the combat uniqueness and how well its designed gets all the spotlight in people's way of engaging with it like alot of firsrt playthroughs i have seen in like twitch and YT is just enemy killing and everything in the game that is useful for this purpose is just the main fouces till the end iam sure there are alot of from soft fans that never engaged with the world of ER narrtive other than sum ups of other people and interpretation
I agree. I was recording for the Farum Azula episode and the agony of characters like Maliketh I think is lost on many people, but it’s not their fault. You have to work to get the story of Elden Ring
never noticed all the moth cocoons all over Elphael, playing right now while watching and noticed that. adds up, but i dont know what all of them are for.
Just my two cents - this feels more like a live stream. Having a script (or at least bullet points) would provide more structure and make it easier to follow. I found myself getting lost at times when you struggled to recall certain names. If you were to only showcase videos, screenshots and gameplay with voiceovers (meaning no video of yourself), I believe it would help a lot to focus. Apart from that, as always: Great ideas, interesting connections, and fun potential lore. Looking forward to more videos.
Totally understandable! I get that this type of video isn't for everyone, this is just a way for me to create videos while I do research for a scripted video. I like to have free flowing thoughts and then let the most cohesive ones float to the top. I also want to hear from others what they think. This video I did with no notes, in the next one I may give myself notes and try to stick to just talking about specific topics. Would that help?
Just wanted to let you know that I was thinking about this critique you gave and I think I came up with a way that will really improve the next video not just for viewers like you but for me making a better video(and more fun to make) So when the Farum Azula video comes out let me know if you think it’s better, your small critique has helped me out creatively!
@@JackisaMimic Hey Jack. It's not a critique, just my personal opinion. These small changes would help your channel grow, giving it a more polished and professional appearance - and making it easier for everyone to follow.
Messmer has eyes like the tarnished after becoming one with the 3 fingers. Perhaps messmer has messed with the 3 fingers before and it’s a reason as to why he’s so powerful with fire. Maybe he’s the reason for all the stigmatisations. The crucible, the red hair and the frenzied flame. Messmer looks like a menace. Can’t wait to find out his actual story.
@@buckyhurdle4776 Plenty of evidence to pointing to him having partaken in Dragon communion even his snake. The easiest and most damming is having your own character partake in it, the eyes change to match his. 😂😂
@@ramoraid Snakes are not dragons. You see a man wearing a two-headed snake, with reptilian eyes, and you think "dragon"? Why? He's associated with snakes, THAT is a claim with genuine evidence. He wears a living snake, he wears a snake helmet. He has SNAKE eyes
58:07 turtle pope who is a primary source makes it sound like radagon left renalla for Marika after having the 3 Rs, but I have a theory that mesmur was a one night stand so to say, while Godfrey was a thing.
Yeah there are few helmets that boost arcane looking at the item list but the Mimic Mask boosts it by a whopping 8 which is far more than any other helmet. The imp head elder looks dope though
What if marika, when she first came to the lands between absorbed some fire or energy and had a child and then the residual fire kinda split from her and became Radagon. If Radagon is created of marika and not just a transformation it would explain a lot about how this god had two identities simultaneously
This is an awesome video although I haven’t finished it yet I do have a proposed theory, in the beginning of dark souls it is said that three hollows came across a mass amount of souls. And if all souls are returning to the erd tree these three hollows have found the remnants of the roots and the souls resided inside of them?
If i was gonna throw my opinion in here i would say the shadow that is being refered to would have something to do with miquella's eclipse because of the whole moon casting a shadow... but thats just me out here in left field
"Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here as well. Shall I share them with you? In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."
@@JackisaMimic two selves in one body. They were never two separate bodies. This second self which she used to walk the lands between in relative anonymity was somehow turned against her. It had yet to become the sole controller of the body or obtain full access to her divinity. There were never two bodies.
From what I'm seeing and what I know of the base game......my guess entirely, there is only one Erdtree in the world that we know of, Miquellas is dead so that don't count, I keep hearing shadow and veil, like it's the other side of the tree, we can't see or something, you have to kill Radahn, WHY, my guess the meteor, does something to interrupt the veil in some way, I mean it does come crashing down and that blinding light could have actually been the veil cracking, but still be intact where no one can see it, I believe the land of shadow is very seeable in the base game(like the dead center of the divine towers, with the big cloud), we just can't see it cause of the veil, and someone (my guess) has made it so no one can go there physically unless they (my guess) divest themselves of our own body to get there and Radahns meteor is the main thing that opens a new way into the land of shadows, now messmer hmmm he's a tough cookie, he's most likely what I would call "The Great first son" like everything came from The One Great, then came fractures, and births, and souls, but the Greater Will made a mistake.....that Marika didn't agree with, like I have a feeling that Messmer came directly from The One Great, before whatever happened, happened, then Messmer (something switched in his mind or something) burned down The Great Tree, creating the first cardinal sin, then Marika (only reason I say her is cause of Marikas veil) somehow created the STRONGEST mimic veil ever seen (or not lol) and sealed away the land of shadow til Radahn is killed and the Meteor cracked the veil covering the land, man that's a lot, I probably have all of it wrong but hey.....Elden Ring
And maybe it's just me but I don't believe Marika had any kids (unless she did before she became a god {which would be completely from left field}) in the land of shadow and Godwyn was her first born outside of the land of shadow, but then them being twins kinda makes sense, but at the same time, Godwyn didn't know any dragon spells til after he beat the dragons (so that lets me know he doesn't have dragon inside of him), but if they were twins, well looking at Miquella and Malenia, Godwyn and Messmer are complete opposites, Messmer is everything all at once, and Godwyn is what everything golden, and nothing negative.......yeah Godwyn was Born long after The Land of Shadow was sealed away, their not twins in my eyes, but who knows really
Is the line "a scion of the golden bough" not indicate Godwin was Godfrey's? Also, I always took Godwin taking on the aquatic features was an indication of kegare, defilement or stagnation
I don't think so because this could just be a reference to him being a child of Marika, but I am not sure. I have to think if this line is conclusive enough evidence against the theory, or if its possible that there is enough evidence to doubt. I was thinking on presenting the theory as something that is inconclusive, which I think in the end most things about Elden Ring will be.
@@JackisaMimic on that we entirely agree. We can almost never KNOW a thing. We can only take characters at their word and what we can parse from the environment. I've been chasing that Kagare comparison a lot, I believe that Zullie covered it a while back
My main piece of textual evidence against this is his dragon-like fish body and the golden lighting being associated specifically with him. The rest of the evidence is thematic and would need a whole video dedicated to it
Please let me know if you like this style of video, and if so what area you would like seen investigated in this way. This is something I would like to do with Shadow of the Erdtree if there is enough interest!
I was here for muted Jack
This style of video is cool, but I also enjoy livestreams. They give us the opportunity to go explore for specific things with you & point out things you might have missed.
I don't like you narrating the adventures of tarnished at all. This format is much much better and to the point
I like the Preceptor Jack way of teling the lore of the Carians
Of course I like this style of video, I'm doing the same thing myself! Except I can't record it yet.. but still, its very nice seeing someone else's thought process AS they're going through the game.
But I wanted to point out the demi-human ashes!
I'm not sure if they are significant, but being found in the Impaler's catacomb, I'm treating it as if they are important.
"...Though they seem somewhat intelligent, when night falls, their blood boils and they become feral."
Maybe it's just flavor, but why exactly is it that they go berserk at night? If the land of shadow is constantly, well, in the shadows, does that mean its always treated as "at night" there?
There's also 3 things that I can think of that happen at night: The Night's Cavalry, the death birds, and some graveyards will spawn the spirit jellyfish at night. I'm going to focus on the Night's Cavalry because they are supposedly commanded by Morgott, an omen. They also have a fucked up version of a spirit mount similar to Torrent. With the death bird and the spirits, there seems to be a connection between the night and death/spirits, but is this suggesting there's another connection with the night and the crucible? If there is, is it BECAUSE the crucible might be trapped in the shadowlands? Does the night have a sort of "witching hour" property, where it merges the world with the shadow world, and that quasi-merge bolsters the connection between the crucible and the demi-humans/omen/etc.?
I like this format of lore hunting/theory chasing and basically narrating a lore dive play through. Brilliantly entertaining, creative and original, as your style trend has revealed itself to be quite faithfully!
Your point about the Golden Lineage and dragons hit on a theory I’ve had for some time. The game pretty explicitly states that the Golden Lineage comes from Marika and Godfrey, which includes Godwyn, so I don’t think Godwyn was parented by a dragon. However, based on the way Godrick speaks of the dragon as a “true born heir” and potentially included in “forefathers one and all,” the rest of the Golden Lineage may be descended from dragons. Godwyn was very close with the Ancient Dragon Cult and specifically Lansseax, so it’s not a stretch to say that the rest of the Golden Lineage are the descendants of Godwyn and Lanseax, Godrick included.
EDIT: Godwyn was closest with Fortisax, not Lanseax, but who knows. Considering it’s not clear how birth works in the Lands Between, Godwyn could’ve had a children with either one of them. Maybe dragons can even swap gender, considering they can even shapeshift to humans.
godwyn created the dragon cult once he befriended fortissax and was taught Ancient Dragon Lightning, Lansseax was a leader or teacher in the cult and the one to taught vyke ancient dragon lightning. The reason for Godwyn yellow lightning is due to him combining Holy magic of the erdtree, this can also be seen with the ancient dragon soldiers and their ice lightning since theirs has glintstone magic in it.
I think FromSoft needs to put out a list of everything Merica DIDN'T sleep with. 😅
It's the only way for us to truly know who or what is related to whom, cause it would seem to be a shorter list than to what she has slept with.
It was Fortissax that Godwyn was closest with, and it was Fortissax who stays inside Godwyn's "dream" trying to fight off the death blight until it consumed him. Tarnished Archeologist posed the highly likely theory that the Erdtree made traditional birth obsolete, because it bears new life like fruit, meaning that Godwyn and Fortissax both being male (and wildly different species, despite the Ancient Dragons' ability to take on human forms) wouldn't be a barrier to them having children together. Maybe they both just have to donate blood to the Erdtree or something. But this would also explain why the Grafted Scions, who are pretty clearly Godrick's own children, have silver hair just like the Ancient Dragons do even in dragon form.
It wouldn't surprise me if Fortissax and Godwyn, on top of their stated chemistry, wed for political reasons as well, to stop the war with the Ancient Dragons in its tracks.
I'm still a Melina truther.
If you look at the trailer, there's a new incantation that spawn's purple-pink butterflies. It's the incantation that hoists the user into the air and seems to affect multiple enemies in some way.
The purple-pink hue seems very similar to the bewitching branch, which turns enemies into allies. So, I think that this incantation is a large, area-of-effect bewitching spell.
But it's the butterflies that are the most interesting. Because this introduces a fourth butterfly. And if this is a bewitching spell, then those bewitching butterflies probably represent Miquella instead of the nascent butterflies. Hear me out:
Aeonian Butterfly = Malenia (doubtless)
Smoldering Butterfly = Messmer
Bewitching Butterfly = Miquella
Nascent Butterfly = Melina
The Nascent butterfly is described as translucent and has has a slightly bluish aura. Just like Melina when she fades in and out of the spirit realm.
But honestly, I don't think any of this is true. Actually, I think all the butterfly stuff is actually a red herring.
Here's what I actually believe:
Messmer is not the child of Marika and Radagon. He's the child of Marika and Godfrey-and he's Godwyn's twin brother. Here are the 3 strongest pieces of evidence I have.
Exhibit A) Messmer's symbol is the red snake, which was considered a traitor to the Erdtree BEFORE Radagon, in the time of Elden Lord Godfrey. (Duelist's Set)
Exhibit B) The slain Giants on the Mountainops are all impaled with similar spears as Messmer's-BEFORE Radagon and during Godfrey's conquests.
Exhibit C.1) Messmer has draconic features and imagery. But unlike the Godwyn's Dragon Cult, Messmer has features of Dragon COMMUNION-the arcane mirror of the Dragon Cult.
Exhibit C.2) Messmer shares imagery with the drake knights and Banished Knights, both partakers of Dragon Communion-and likely he was their original master.
I'm sure we're going to get answers one the DLC finally drops. But either way, I really hope we get more Melina.
She's my favorite and criminally under utilized.
BOOST THIS COMMENT OMG I hadn't thought of Godwyn having a twin but that is PERFECTLY in line with the constant duality/opposites theming it's perfect
So my personal theory on Messmer is that he's Godwyn's twin, because the bracelet on Messmer's right arm has the same pattern as a bracelet on Godwyn's corpse. The patterns are turned 90° though.
The dlc has also revitalized my belief in a theory that many of us had, that the shape of the continent once resembled the dragon image on the Drake talismans.
Marika is shown in the arms raised position in her statues & crucified that way because it's the shape of her personal Great Rune. You can see it on Marika's Scarseal.
I also just remembered the Depraved Perfumer's armor has 2 red snakes on it
Marika’s pose is also in mimicry of the branches of the Erdtree as seen in the painting in Roundtable Hold. It’s saying Marika and the Erdtree are synonymous symbolically, I think.
That would be insanely interesting because Godwyn and Messmer have completely opposite qualities :D
Godwyn and Messmer being twins is interesting as they both seem designed as opposites, with Godwyin being the culmination of all things golden and Messmer having several "heretical" motifs. Godwyn was the son of Marika and Godfrey though, and the only time red hair is noted is in reference to the lineage of Radagon (and the fire giants by extension). The clear draw is that Messmer fits somewhere into the Marika/Radagon progeny, but if theres some other reason explained in the DLC as to how Messmer's hair is red then this is quite the fun theory. Still hoping Godwyn has a big role in the DLC
I too, believe that Messmer was born either as Godwyn’s twin or immediately after Godwyn. That there was something terribly amiss with his birth. As Queen Marika was still betrothed to Godfrey, both of them hair of gold. How did it come to be that Messmer had such vibrant red hair?
Surely this child so obviously not Godfrey’s would be seen as a bastard, and with the snakes and the hair of giants and whatever else may have been obvious about him at birth - abomination.
Marika would flee, and use the opportunity presented to her to veil the realm we now know as the shadow lands, in the upheaval created by the greater will as it cast down the people we know as the Nox in their eternal cities, below the surface of the crust of the lands between.
Using her powers to vanish an entire stretch of land literally in the shadow of the erdtree, in the middle of each of the divine towers, where now we see nothing but water and smoke on the map.
She would steal away with her baby in an effort to save him. Perhaps giving him to those people in the portrait to be raised. Though, that did not turn out well for them!
From the shadowed realm but possessed of all of the birthright of every other demi-god, I can see exactly why Messmer would say upon seeing us, the tarnished, as Elden Lord:
“Mother… wouldst thou truly Lordship sanction - in one so bereft of light?” In a mocking tone dripping with disdain.
@@unfortunateinc.205 There is a chance that Godwyn is NOT the son of Godfrey, though.
Look at Radagon. Now look at Godwyn. Now Radagon. Now Godwyn. Back to Radagon. (Lol)
The only difference between these two men is literally their hair colour, aesthetically. Godwyn far more closely resembles Radagon than Godfrey. But he was a golden child, perfectly formed and suited to serve as the son of Marika and her betrothed Elden Lord of the “Golden Lineage.”
But Marika was having an affair with Radagon! A secret she thought could never come out! And this may be precisely why she divested Godfrey of his gold and “hounded him” from the lands between. Using him as a backup for later. Even telling him that she would send him and his tarnished brethren away to live and die in another land, growing stronger in the face of death so that they could return stronger. To face what? Well, she wants us to kill a god. But why kill her if she flees to the shadow realm with her baby? Because Radagon has been meddling. Because she truly wants us to kill Radagon, but believes we aren’t strong enough yet.
And isn’t it interesting that in our absence Radagan, too would grow stronger. Learning sorceries from Rennala as a champion of the Erdtree in the Liurnian wars when the capital could not bring to heel the Carian Queen?
This story reminded me so much of the story of Mary Magdalene. Then of the more ancient Sumerian folk tail about the Dragon Queen Melusine who dances her golden ring of eternity. That they were both pregnant with children, Mary from Jesus and Queen Melusine from a human, that their babies would be abominations and that they must flee across the waters from Jerusalem to Southern France. Like the Tori Amos song Marys of the Sea - “You must go, must flee. For they will hunt you down. You and your unborn seed. In all of Gaul is there safety?
Les Saintes Marie de La Mer, you will dance your ring, Marys of the Sea, the lost bride weeps.”
Knowing George and how he writes things from history, including elements from British folklore, Norse mythology, Irish mythologies, Egyptian culture and mythos… all of this and how akin he has made Marika to Jesus/Mary iconography. I feel very confident about this.
Look at the statue just behind Messmir of a Woman, I think clearly Marika, holding a baby!
I've wondered for a while if Miquella's name was just a modified Michael.
Michael meaning 'One who is like God'.
The DLC trailer makes me think it's more than just that. Archangel Michael fights Lucifer, who has taken the form of a dragon, during the fight at the end of the world.
Messmer is covered in snakes and dragons. They are, potentially, reflections of one another. The heretical, draconic, and 'bereft of light' vs the 'pure and radiation'.
Absolutely!
You mean “radiant”?
@@VictorIV0310 yes
Considering it's GRRM who wrote the backstory, this is very possible that's what he had in mind for these characters
Miquella is known to have been empathic towards all the races of the lands between and part of his reasoning to create his haligtree was to include this beings into the an order. The Golden Order shunned them from their society, Miquella welcome them into his.
Maybe before marika became a god, Radagon was actually a separate being from her, but they somehow fused, probably in her ascension. which could explain how miquella and malenia and messmer seem like they should be older and more pure empereans. Also the Lattice is made of straight lines, representing the masculine, orderly aspects of the universe, while Marikas is curved and organic, representing the feminine, fluid aspects of the universe. Combined they complete the totality of the cosmos and thats probably how she became the two-in-one, hermaphradite god.
And I do think the land of shadows is in the center of the map. one, because its btw all the divine towers and could be anchors for the veil (as their actual purpose), but also because in the Old Hunters dlc, we see that miyazaki enjoys the idea of different realities being hidden by bodies of water. seeing as the center is a giant, seemingly uninteresting, foggy body of water...adds up.
ALSO I was looking at the map and saw the weirdly long waterfall on the map btw the mtn tops and caelid, so I went to the bestial sanctum and looked around only to find a Miquella's lily overlooking the closest point to the waterfall. You can look down and see the water crashing from where you find the lily under a tree. You also see the isolated tower...just very strange placement if its not very important. Maybe miquella went here and either did this himself, or was trying to figure out how to enter the land of shadow.
So the Land of Shadows is where Marika obtained Godhood? This must be why Miquella is here then, to ascend to godhood by following his mother’s footsteps. Maybe there is something here which lead to Marika casting this land out, so no one else could obtain godhood?
That is an interesting idea, the Land of Shadow needs to be hidden so the past cannot be repeated. Though as we know, even if you bury the past history will still repeat itself.
I’m over 500 hours in this game and I was shook when you pointed out Radagon’s name is an anagram for “a dragon” as if it wasn’t staring me in the face. Now I am reeling over what that could mean for him 🤯
I think Messmer is the one who wiped out the giants. In the mountaintops the corpses have bloodthorns and spears coming out of them. Messmers spear is almost identical to the spears jutting out of their corpses, and in the promotion image where he’s seated you can see bloodthorns in his flame. This also explains why his hair is red, because he was cursed by the giants for what he did, similar to Radagon. I think he turned to blasphemy to be able to kill the giants so he had to be banished for it.
I do think that Marika would be able to conceal / hide her plans from Radagon. "Thou art yet to become me. Thou art yet to become a god." As if she is still capable of things that he cannot even fathom. Now that we seem to be unraveling the mystery of her veil, and the fact that she shattered the Elden Ring successfully despite the Golden Order zealotry of Radagon, it seems she's quite capable of deception. I'm still unsure if they were always one person or if perhaps she made him. If she was always imprisoned, crucified, and could not leave, would she create her own avatar? Or would she create him with the intention of keeping him under her control? Perhaps something went wrong (she couldn't keep the Golden Order/Elden Beast/ Greater Will out of the formula), and Radagon was ultimately no longer her servant but a servant to the Greater Will.
Side note: We've previously theorized that only women or demigods with more "feminine" personas can be an Empyrean (i.e. Miquella). I do wonder if the Gold Mask ending is meant to effectively usurp Marika (still using her body as a vessel) through Radagon and achieve "Perfect Order". Is the body of the Empyrean THE most important aspect? Can an alter ego effectively create a new order? Following that thought, could Godwyn have been an Empyrean once? Was Marika the God of the Age of the Dragonlord? Was Godwyn born of that union with the Dragonlord or was Godwyn born only of his mother Marika, as a true Empyrean? Tarnished Archeologist theorized that Ranni may have targeted Godwyn because he was her betrothed. I think this is also very interesting. Can two Empyreans wed? What effect does that have on the Golden Order?
Marika being offered up as an unwilling vessel tracks with (what seems to be) her desperation to free herself from the Greater Will. If her father is the old man from the trailer, his punishment would befit his crime. Once she became a God-Queen, she intended for him to suffer. Much like Gideon's words to us that Queen Marika intends for us to suffer.
I've always been so curious about Marika. My thought in the beginning of the game was that we were trying to save Queen Marika. That she had been locked away, or had disappeared and it was up to the Tarnished to find her and save her by becoming Elden Lord. I really hope we learn all about her. It's a shame that when we finally meet her, she's a husk. Puppeted by those who she fought so hard against.
The more I think about Marika and Radagon the more I think that Radagon is Marika's pawn. He doesn't see the whole picture, but Marika does. I also wonder how he must have felt learning he is Marika, how would that type of revelation have affected him?
For Empryeans, its important to know that GRRM is a feminist and writes feminist stories. I am not sure about Miyazaki but based on his previous games I also think he has feminist tendencies. That is all to say that it is in line with their world beliefs to have women being controlled or used because of their bodies (much like in the real world). Empryeans being only female tracks on a story level and philosophical level. But how can Miquella be an Empryean, and the most fearsome one at that, the same way he is cursed with "eternal youth". He has Klinefelter syndrome, or XXY chromosomes. I would recommend looking up the symptoms and then thinking about how eternal youth and androgyny could be derived from them.
I also think we know more about Marika than we realize. Since I go over this in my next video Ill just say this: your first DLC character should not burn the Erdtree, should have Miquella's needle, and should have the Darkmoon Ring. Pure speculation though ;)
maybe messmer is melina's alter ego? kinda like how miquella is st.trina? this game likes their duality shit, with the alter ego being their opposite gender (marika and radagon)
Also concerning the blessed dew talisman description, heres a quote from a finger reader:
Surely you see it, too?
The gold that enshrouds the heavens. The great tree which begets the pillars of light.
O Tarnished, hasten to the foot of the tree.
The grace of gold is said to give us visions of grace that guide us around. What if the entire glowing image of the erdtree is just another vision from grace? The erdtree becoming an object of faith on the talisman tells me that at some point, the tarnished had to BELIEVE the erdtree was still there. Why would the finger reader ask if we can see the GIANT GOLDEN TREE unless it wasn't guaranteed that everyone could see it? This would also explain why the burning erdtree image requires destined death to be unleashed. The image of the erdtree is just a symbolic representation of the cycle of life and death being unleashed means that symbol must not have otherworldly permanence. It also explains why the erdtree can just burn continually and never get any smaller. It ALSO explains the weird inner tree which we enter to fight radagon at the end of the game. The weird inner tree IS what is left of the real erdtree and the glowing golden tree is pure illusion.
oh yo, one thing about the soreseals. everything you say is true, but they have a hidden meaning too. The shape you see is something they "beheld" that made them feel they had a lifelong duty akin to a curse, because of what they saw. It burned into their eyes as they became gods. Marika looks like she saw an eclipse and Radagon saw the elden ring break. But the symbols can also be used as what they now symbolize, Radagon like a blacksmith is holding the lattice together with what he has learned, perhaps even tempering it. I think Marika witnessed the collapse of the sun realm, it's shield sports a crumbling or eroded foundation and the eclipse icons sometimes look like the sun bleeds something. The thing Marika may have witnessed is the blood star, a bleeding sun wounded by something dark. There are actually a few different weapons helphens steeple and crucible tree spear, that seem like weapons pointed at the sun , but the crucible tree spear does a spinny projectile ash of war, that if it was tree pointed at the sun, would be like a giant spinning horned tree shot the sun. The spear looks similar to deathroot tree stumps forming near mariners, but complete with crucible horns and eyes of death.
Fun fact about the glowing meteorites at 00:19:23, they kinda look like the Fukang meteorite, which is a pallasite. "The Fukang pallasite contains large, gem quality olivine, or peridot, in a nickel-iron matrix."
Thank you very much for your carefully put together videos. I really enjoy listening to them in the background. (I often put them on when I play other games lol. Grinding FF14 while listening to Elden Ring lore, hehe.)
I also really like your thumbnails btw. I think they are visually appealing and have a very distinct design. The reddish triangle-ish shape and the white font make your thumbnails very easy and clear to read (both literally as well as visually) while also making them stand out against the thumbnails that many other video game youtubers commonly use.
Grabs my attention a lot better than many other thumbnails.
I have a friend who is a professional graphic designer who helped design the template for my thumbnails, its great to hear you like his work and mine!
The videos that he did the whole thumbnail you can find his socials in the description.
aw thank you thank you
I think early Christian’s met in sewers before they were widely accepted so maybe the sewer catacombs is a reference to that?
Seeing that the Greater Will/Erdtree becomes the primary monotheistic religion, similar to Christianity, I think that comparison makes sense. The sewers were first, the catacombs came afterwards.
This is a great format and idea! A few things: I definitely agree with you that Farum Azula is part of the Sun Realm, and it'd be very interesting if it became the Shadow Realm! I think the Banished and Exiled Knights are the last human vestiges of that civilization. Also, Marika always has the crucified pose because it's the shape of her Elden Rune, and the Scarseal item is referring to Radagon in its description rather than the Zamor Knight, since it's Radagon's eye and Elden Rune, a reference to Odin sacrificing his eye to drink from the Well of Memory. Why a Zamor Knight has it in the Weeping Peninsula is anyone's guess, though.
Love this kind of video! It kinda made me wanna 100% explore the base game too
Theory about the player tarnished being a mimic is bonkers.
All in all I enjoyed the video
Happy you enjoyed the video! Consider watching my video on Farum Azula if you haven’t yet!
These videos are great, inspired me to do a region locked challenge run of some of these areas as a way to deep dive into their lore more.
Tarnished archeology has a good analysis of the Erd tree and specifically the symbol of faith.
1:13ish you talk about this and I think you really should reconsider your timeline. I agree with TA that the Erd tree was burnt once before and that the tree we see in game is the spirit of the ashes of the tree.
This was fun to listen to man! Great video really enjoyed it. Quite dense to boot :))
Happy to hear this from you, buddy!
VaatiiVidia is for those who wanna know the story... Queelag, Tarnished Archeologist and Jack are for those who want to understand Elden Ring... Another great video
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! I think I came off a bit rambly so I hope there was something of value in my yapping.
Good point. I was wandering why I wasn't super into Vaatii. I'd also add Hawkshaw into the latter who is brilliant imo.
The aspects of the Crucible may have been banned in TLB when Godfrey was banished and once Radagon became Elden Lord. To me it's the time when it makes the most sense. Great job with your Lore videos, one of the best out there 🤘
New to the channel but I love this kind of content, passionate fans expressing the interest and knowledge of a subject is something I live for, keep up the fantastic work!
Thanks Jack for pointing it out again Great Video🔥🔥
Yes as you fight Radagon, his Name is exactly- a Dragon of the Golden Order-
Its a Champions Title so to speak
In Farum Azula that Statue is for sure Radagon, who is also Marika. If the Rune of Death and the Rune of the Unborn where once Part of the Elden Ring that would explain the GEQ Era and also the Crucible Era. Two Removed pieces and two forgotten, barely mentioned Time Periods. It’s no coincidence..
The Only missing piece is Miquella Rune to get the Full Picture.
Also Miranda could be the Name of the GEQ who could be Marikas Twin Sister.
And the First War before the Age of the Erdtree could have been Marika with her Crucible Army against Miranda(GEQ) Army.
Messmer being Godwyns Twin Brother is also a Nice Theory
I like to think that Messmer is Radagon’s grandson, rather than a direct heir. Messmer is most likely not a legitimate heir either, not being mentioned by Morgott in his speech about the elden throne before you fight him. Perhaps Messmer isn’t even in possession of a great rune of his own.
My theory is that he’s the bastard son of Rykard, continuing in his father’s legacy after Rykard became corrupted. Messmer has the right hair colour for it, he uses fire primarily just as Rykard does in his boss fight (and his boss weapon), and is associated with a serpent. Rykard’s title of “praetor” is Latin, translating roughly to “judge”. Rykard’s role in the golden order was most likely as some sort of grand inquisitor or legislative figure. Furthermore, Messmer is most likely a jailer of sorts, and the land of Shadow may be the “penal colony” mentioned in the armor description of the exile soldiers, who are affiliated with the banished knights and appear in most places where the banished knights do, as well as both of them being exiled from some other location. Finally, Messmer’s magic that he wields appears to resemble thorn sorcery, a magic used by those who had been blinded by thorns as punishment for being criminals of the golden order and witnessed the blood star. All of this together paints a picture of Messmer being a figure associated with punishing the enemies of the erdtree, with the banished knights (who are covered in red cloth and dragon motifs) being either servants of Messmer or former servants of Messmer. Messmer also appears to be associated with dragon communion, and the banished knights in farum azula use what looks like dragon communion magic, which I think further solidifies the connection
I love this format keep up the great work
"I don't think you see any Banished Knights in Leyndell" Funnily enough in the 1.00 pre-day one patch console disc version them and the exiles are in Leyndell with the oracle envoys absent entirely until you get to the Haligtree. That version is basically a dev build that they stamped onto the discs--the youtuber BertoPlease did a long exploration of that version's idiosyncrasies and is planning on releasing a three hour forty minute compilation tomorrow.
Ratatoskr and SmoughTown had a neat podcast episode on the former's channel about the DLC that was quite interesting, but one of the points was the scene with Miquella at the end of the trailer seems to take place at the end of the DLC. The sap has stopped dripping from the shadow tree, a brighter canopy is viewable from above the dark branches, and as they point out: most interestingly of all the veil is missing. They referred back to one of the interviews where Miyazaki said it will be obvious that you've completed the DLC, and speculated that this means the Land of Shadow gets reintegrated into the Lands Between. If that's true I'm absolutely going to have to avoid spoilers for a good couple weeks because I do NOT want to see such an event prematurely.
Also in that podcast they speculate that Messmer is Marika's first born child, with the statue behind him only having a single child, with the storytelling purpose that the weight of expectation of being that firstborn was the cause of his downfall.
The Albinauric Mask raises Arcane by 4, half as much as the silver tear mask. I really hope they add an arcane boosting talisman and physick tear in the DLC--they still seem to view it as the dump stat when Elden Ring made great strides in letting it be useful beyond item discovery.
The smoldering butterflies are one of your main points of access to fire damage in the early game, that and prophets' visions of the Erdtree burning. All of the fire pots and fire grease coming from the exiled firstborn...
The Dragons' elemental resistances are as follows (source: Boblord's spreadsheet):
Decaying Ekzykes: -100% fire, -40% other elements (i.e. takes double damage from fire sources)
Glintstone Dragons Smarag and Adula: 80% magic, 40% other elements(i.e. takes only 20% of the elemental damage dealt)
Agheel, Greyll, Placidusax: 40% all elements
Ancient Dragon Lansseax: 80% lightning, 40% other elements
Lichdragon Fortissax: 80% lightning and holy, 40% fire and magic
Also, do you have a program that parses the text in a video you're looking at as actual text to copy/paste and so on? If so neat. (that's a big enough comment, if I have more thoughts today or tomorrow I'll write a reply to this one)
(if it isn't clear by my lengthy comments, I love this format of video, please do this again)
Tarnished Archaeologist makes the point that the catacombs predated the Erdtree, and its roots merely sought out the places with the most corpses, just as normal roots would seek out the place with the most water.
It's so funny seeing a normal player after my inordinate amount of time spent doing an RL1 low to no weapon upgrade challenge run gave me matrix bullet time for most of the game's bosses
Also remember you can use the item chest to clean up your inventory of duplicate items gathered in NG+ runs
I think one of the candle stand old codgers leads you to the cave with Latenna at the end (FIND THE ALBINAURIC WOMAN)
I said in a previous comment, but those underpinning ruins appear in the DLC and feature prominently in the additional screenshot in the place with all the greenery (which might be a part of Caelid which was excised from the Lands Between and thus spared of the scarlet rot, in a roundabout way granting us a look at that without resorting to time travel)
As a technical criticism of this video, you should get a hotkey or whatever to obscure the image of yourself in cases where it overlaps with dialogue subtitles like with Melina in the middle of the stream.
A niche gameplay tip: if you mash attack and block you can escape some grabs early. It works for example on the abductor virgins and dates back to either Dark Souls or Demon's Souls.
I love all of the tree symbolism in this game, even down to "Enemy Felled" or similar which greets you when you kill any sub-godly boss, and I really love Radagon's trellis. The podcast from the last comment pointed out that the Preceptor's Helm has that trellis sealing its mouth, as described in the "Mask of Confidence", and that trellis is an Elden Rune. Imo this fully dispels any idea that Radagon wasn't Marika when married to Renalla.
(that's it for tonight. I'll surely write another comment tomorrow)
I read both of your comments and need to give your information some thought, thank you for all of this you get an A+ lol. Can you clarify what you mean about parsing the text? I have a dump file with all of the text in Elden Ring saved on my computer if that is what you are referencing.
@@JackisaMimic I mean when you hover your cursor over text in your footage, the cursor changes to the vertical bar that indicates it's text you can highlight and copy
@@minerman60101 Oh okay, its a feature built into MacOS, it will 'read' text in images or videos. The gameplay was recorded on a PS5 and this is a screen capture of me watching it on my Mac in QuickTime.
@@JackisaMimic I have finished the video and will now post the final of my trilogy of comments:
The ghost talking about the Tower of Return is one of the wandering nobles (you can see it clad in the Aristocrat set). They left Leyndell during the Shattering, which is why this one talking about that tower.
That Divine Bridge keeps me up at night. After writing that line I went and warped around the divine towers for over an hour lol.
I backtracked to Sealed Tunnel's Onyx Lord arena and got jumpscared by all the Radagon statues (sword only). I realized that there is precedent for a Divine Bridge changing direction in Morgott/Mohg's tower, which has that big circular room with an elevator down to the forbidden lands. Its top room also has a bunch of Radagon statues (book only). Weirdly enough, you cannot see the path from Sealed Tunnel to Rykard's Divine Tower from anywhere outside of that Divine Tower worldspace: the new terrain is simply placed on top of the rocks you can see from afar (you can tell where the different texture resolutions meet on the west side of the path). The Divine Towers also have a unique milk-green and clouded sky when you're at their top.
The Isolated Divine Tower, being the shortest of the bunch, has the area below the elevator platform far more filled in with rock. The second shortest one of course lets you get to its rocky bottom to fight a Godskin Apostle, so this is just a nice worldbuilding coherence detail.
I took another look at that segment of the story trailer with the siege of Leyndell that showed an additional segment of the Divine Bridge and that's not the only structure which is more complete: the Minor Erdtree Church is there and still has its top.
Also, when you kill Maliketh and fully burn the Erdtree, some of its branches start to wilt down and a massive one falls into the sea. I'm curious whether these will pierce through the veil of the Land of Shadow at all.
I'm curious why the only mention of the Sun Realm has such a low drop rate from such a select group of enemies...
Anyway I definitely would like to see you look at all of the Divine Towers--these things have entranced me since the game launched and I feel like they still have so many secrets.
I been trying to find hints and connections to Messmer. I been reading a lot of item descriptions and here are my conclusions.
My big take away is that he was likely a dragon hunter during the time of the crucible. His pet snake also partook in eating dragons and might be the reason it has wings. At some point he lost an eye and he to saw the blood star (Like Mogh). The Blood star is likely to be the flame inside the caldron the Fire giant protects. He eventually reached the flame and communicated with the Formless mother. It also might help explain why thorns are used to represent a guilty individual and why we see fire monks and the Thorn Sorcerer together and also why Fire prelates wield Thorn whips, that are said to be inspired by Briars of sin.
One important detail about communing with the formless mother is that the worshipper need to blind and punish themselves. The thorn sorcerers impale themselves, Mogh impales the formless mother and his eye has been impaled by his horn, Messmer is called the impaler.
He was eventually killed or sealed away for blasphemy, possibly burning Erdtree the first time (tarnished archeologist pointed out that the tree was likely burned once and it is likely why we need grace to see the Erdtree). After his defeat the gladiators were likely dressed to look like Messmer as punishment for their crimes and to reminds crowds the win over a blasphemous foe.
This are some of the items that are likely related to Messmer in some way and can support the theory above.
-The giant's seal
-Burn O Flame!
-Flame of the Fell God
-Bloodboon
-Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear
-Briars of Punishment
-Flame Sling.
-Dragon Communion Seal
-Drake Knight Set
-Duelist Helm
-Devourer's Scepter
-Blasphemous Blade
-Staff of the Guilty
-Fire Monk Hood
-Shield of the Guilty
-Guilty Hood
-Thorned Whip
-Depraved Perfumer Robe (two red snakes embroider in the front)
I had always wondered, how the smoldering butterfly just did not feel like it went to melina for me, has she wasnt very involved in the areaand I made the same conclusion that the butterflies was for each one, this was great, your perspective is very fresh you could be a historian
so here 32:17 when we find Smoldering butterflies and St. Trina's Lily (St. Trina Chris*Tina just saying)
when i was on Altus Plateau the other day, there's this mini valley cul-de-sac where you find a Mother + Child statue hugging, physique as if comforting the minor/protective. there are some baby octopuses around (which freaks me out).
in the front where you enter are nascent butterflies. so miquella is represented in an object as both StT and M in lands between.
dimensionally speaking we still have this riddle of how a MarikaRadagon could be not-two in the same "place", lands between, as well as a St.TrinaMiquella. i am beyond dying to know 🫣
i am hexpecting Shadow Lands to meet some of our curiosity rising from all this duality symbolism!! 💜
At the risk of an unpopular opinion. I don't think Messmer is Radagon's kid in the same way as Miquella and Malenia. I think Messmer's red hair isn't meant to link him so much with Radagon but to link him with the fallen era of the Crucible. Red was the color associated to the Crucible. The presence of severed fire giant heads on the Wickerman, a weapon used in the war against the previous age, along with continued animosity after that war leads me to think the giants were pro Crucible. At this point, of the idea that he is the Eldest of all the children of Marika though not the child of any Elden Lord, at least any we've met. I have a terrible thought in my head because his story was written by G.R.R.M. about who his father is but I don't wanna say something so gross an be wrong.
On another note, I've recently stopped considering Marika's statue pose as a crucifixion pose. No one knows where she is or what she is doing so there is no logic they would make statues of her crucified. As silly as it sounds I think she is posing as a tree. Crucifixes don't mean the same thing in the Lands Between as they do in our world. But if you are a god and you need an iconic pose and your big thing you made is a giant tree, perhaps that would influence the pose you strike. Radagon, when he takes over isn't mimicing crucifixion with his arms out, he's doing Golden Order totality as we all know. The worshipped likeness of a religious figure is often depicted of their most iconic moment. I think Marika's pose is meant to illustrate the Goddess and the Tree are the same thought. Her head being down may be meant to symbolize how she is watching, or how the blessings flow down. The statue of her in Messmer's room in the trailer has her cradling a child, which may have been built before the tree. Her prior persona may have been that of the Holy Mother rather than the Goddess of the Erdtree. That child was significant to the people in that place. Messmer's significance to the people in the Lands that would be Shadowed may have played apart in his abandonment or imprisonment. I assume this because there are literally no other maternal images of Marika. Though she keeps having kids, she seems to abandon the concept of maternity once she is established in the Lands Between. She even caged some of her kids (Omen Twins).
(Sorry for the wall of text.)
What you said made me think of something about the statues and their poses. I do think you are right that in the Lands Between Marika's pose is probably supposed to evoke tree imagery, but the lore of Elden Ring was written by GRRM the ex-Catholic.
When we look at crucification imagery of Jesus Christ its made up of two parts: Jesus nailed to the cross. Marika's pose in her statues evoke the same position that you see in Crucifixion imagery with the head being slouched and the arms being slightly above the head.
The second part of the crucification is the cross itself: the wood shaped in a T for which someone can be crucified. This is the pose that Radagon does.
Separately it doesn't make much sense but when you put them together you get the full picture. Marika hung on the Radagon cross? Just a thought I had reading your comment. Ill have to draw up an image
@@JackisaMimic Since I have your attention for the moment let me get an outside opinion. I've seen folks discuss that the Shadow Lands were probably in the center of the inland sea. But I've been of the mindset that they may have been attached to the Forbidden Lands. The Forbidden Lands are pretty much right next to the Erdtree yet it is perpetually dark and hazy there. The shape of the Forbidden Lands is also unnatural and implies missing land. When I saw the trailer and got to the part with the player throwing knives at what looks like a dark spirit the landscape behind that spirit seemed to have the same black fog. Not to mention the question of why the lands are forbidden. (If it was because of the Mountain Top of the Giants then shouldn't the mountain be "The Forbidden Mountain"). I'm eager to see if anyone aside from me thinks there is something to this. If there is I use to think that the lands were hosting red grace but what if it is something like a lingering trace of Messmer's flame.
What’s your theory that you don’t wanna be wrong about I’m curious? Who cares if you’re wrong I would like to hear!❤😂
The King of Midland is actually Bonebeard the Pirate? lol
I'm just really curious where the Shadowlands are on the map. I'm thinking they are in between the Weeping Penninsula/Limgrave and Liurnia. Maybe the Weeping Penninsula wasn't always a penninsula. We already know Farum Azula was once connected to Caelid with a bridge. It's like Radagon/TGW can edit the world and history by removing parts of it, just as parts of the Elden Ring can be removed and modified. And that's why Jingle All the Way is one of the greatest films ever made. It's a story of desire, the will to power and change, in which men fight over a sacred object with the power to bring happiness to their children. But, the film asks, at what cost? What is the point, when all it does is separate a man from his loved ones and make him forget what really matters? That's a beautiful reminder that sometimes all we need is love to shrive clean the hearts of men.
An interesting find in the environment near the Messmer’s Butterflies section (43:17) there’s a ledge you can drop off near that cliff and there’s a few landsquirts, erdleaf flowers, and the Eclipse crest heater shield with a wandering mausoleum visible in the distance. If those random fire spots w butterflies found in TLB signify Messmer’s flame, then this small piece of the map has a bunch of connections in one area; Messmer(fire ablaze and butterflies), Miquella&Godwyn(eclipse shield), Death (landsquirts&mausoleum), and Golden Order(minor erdtree& erdleaf flowers)
I've also thought the main character as a Mimic, in order to make the perfect elden lord, you create one and the FIRST thing we see (what I believe) is the inside of the Erdtree
should look into why we can become a lord while Gydion belives a man can kill a god,also we being a mimic of marika's design using golden sap or tear husk is sth i don't believe in but is intresting
Maybe it's on my end, but the video doesn't seem to have audio
Edit: is working now, I'm keeping the comment here for possible algorithm assistance
Same here, unfortunately.
Yeap
Hey man, it got no audio, help!
Its probably due to it still processing, the video is quite long so that may be why. I have audio wathcing it in an incognito window on a different computer.
I didn’t have audio problems. How peculiar.
Note on Godwyn:
He wears the same cloth as Godfrey.
Correct! It is also the same motif you can find on the Crucible Knights as well!
Really!? Where can I see Godwyn’s clothes?
@@lili-jin130 I think the blue cloth he wears on his corrupted Prince of Death form is the same as or similar to Godfrey's one.
Your channel is renewed for another season!
Love your channel. Another great video and i enjoyed the freestyle format. Here are some things ive noticed in going back through some locations. Guardians garrison has a ton of smoldering butterflies, they also wield abhorrent sorceries, wear thorns, and wield fire. Right to the south of guardians garrison are some of the spears that impale the giants minus the giants, so you can get a good look at them. You can see a clear symbol on them. To me the symbol looks a lot like the golden thing impaling the old man from the trailer. There spear shape matches Messmers spear to a T to me. Also the troll hammer weapon looks just like the symbol on the old mans cloak clasp in the trailer. Also to my understanding GRRM wrote all the characters and their heroic trates. He made up all their powers and wrote the history of the golden order from beginning to end. Fromsoft then took this history and destroyed and corrupted it and wrote their story. George wrote the history, fromsoft wrote the present. From what i read. Just some things to think about. Cant wait for more videos so we can all get a little bit closer to the big picture.
!!! I'm so glad you're doing this breakdown! Crazy idea, but I noticed in some of the frames and in other lore deep dive videos its mentioned a boat of Tarnished was left behind, you mentioned this in the Rusted Anchor! What if the boat left behind in the Shadows of Erdtree trailer is what became of the Tarnished who were left behind? What if Messmer was ordered out of the Lands between then decided not to leave?
I really enjoyed this Lore along Style video very chill in-between your other work. I often thought about Godwyn's lineage. it's a bit different from what I believe you are suggesting, but I had thought that he could be a child of Godfrey and a mistress or concubine, but used as a poster child other than Marika and Godfrey's kids. This might be where his strength to fight dragons comes from, along with the fact he tacks the God prefix and has no afflictions. Not sure just a thought.
I’ve noticed that everything Marika has done had effects that directly benefited herself and the golden order. Whatever happened to make her go against the Greater Will was still her calculated plan.
Marika is the main character in a story told by the side characters.
I wish we could see what George R. R. Martin ACTUALLY wrote. They would make near billions if they released that.
Two of my goals for this channel is to prove that Elden Ring is firmly a GRRM story and that Marika is a sympathetic victim in our story. I hope you continue to watch my videos and that I can make that perspective seem plausible to you.
I absolutely love this style of video!!
I think you’re onto something with Godwyn being more dragon related than just a dragon ally. It is associated with the crucible in my opinion and the demihumans. The natural native peoples and creatures of the lands between i believe are all related to dragons. That’s why the crucible is associated with dragon related features like horns and wings and feathers and scales and tails.
This is why in my opinion, Godrick, with dragons sewn into his sash, says to the dragon head before he grafts it into himself “thou art a true born heir…”
True born heir to whom? To what? To the dragon ancestors that Godfrey and thereby Godwyn and eventually Godrick are related to.
It is said that Godrick seeks an older power. Grafting in an attempt to be as amorphous in form as a demihuman, with dragon parts.
Sunrealm, you know, Farum Azula where the sun never sets
Radagon potentially having statues in all those different places makes me think he may be a very ancient being too. Perhaps he even existed first and it was Marika who he created or became at a much later date.
It always ate away at me that the quote is "Radagon is Marika", and not "Marika is Radagon." Its such a simple yet hard to parse out statement.
Radagon is Marika therefore the inverse is also true: Marika is Radagon
i think the winged scythe could be referencing the singing bat woman. One variant, on ruin strewn precipice, could cast death rancor. The lyrics of their song could represent their fall from grace from priestess/envoy of death role in pagan society. A lot of eldenring 'beast' enemies (bats, octopuses, demihumans) are very strange i think. The demihumans have connection with the fallen ruin (ruinstone, glowing stone drops) and sewing (string drop and boc). The octopuses are the strangest since they could behave very human (working together with vulgar militia in hidden path to haligtree, lisening to the singing bat woman on ruin strewn precipice), venture far from water being in strange places (near amber starlight, very high up on ruin strewn precipice). My theory is that these enemies have deeper part in the history of the lands between. My instinct tell me that they could be former human/people (demihuman: former inhabitant of the sky temple, bats: twinbird worshippers, octopuses: the description on the helmet they drop could be a hint) because of their behavior, form, and placement that are stranger compared to more animalistic beast (bear, hawk, wolf) and they all have matriarchal family/culture (cursed numen? Idk). This is just my thought.
Well its a very good thought because monsters being former humans is a GRRM trope in his Thousand World series, as well as in ASOIAF. Many of his stories take place in worlds where humanity has regressed and the "monsters" they face (such as vampires, ice zombies, or multi-limbed creatures) are in fact just genetically altered humans from centuries or thousands of years in the past.
So I think your theory is right on the money. How it works in Elden Ring is uncertain, but I would suspect that the similarities aren't an accident. I bet you have never read Bitterblooms or In The House of the Worm, yet you came to a similar conclusion!
Thats very interesting because i'm not familiar with GRRM works, not even game of thrones. From what you said, GRRM (and Miyazaki) seems to often recycle themes and ideas that works. So the 'clues' that these type of enemies give might lead to something. And in my opinion the clues are not hidden, like why would they put the singing bat woman in the game (which on the early version of eldenring are just regular bats singing the same lyrics).
There are clear evidence of regression. The dogs on farum azula drop ruin fragment, implying that they were once beastmen. The dragons are regressing. The warriors that become magma wyrm could also symbolize regression. The ancestral worshipper dwell the hellenic style ruins could be its original people. This got me thinking, maybe the eternal city numen created artificial life (that are silver/metallic based) so they are immune to regression.
Thanks for replying! These ideas have been in my mind for a long time and I haven't seen any coverage on this topic.
amazing yo, Ive been wanting to hear someones thoughts on marika's crucifiction in her churches. The location of sacred tears are placed in a way that it looks like she cried them out, she also looks sad in most if not all pictures of her. There is a strange similarity to her churches and the being in the briar greatshield, with the placement of undead to the left and right, and the leader in the middle being a solitary ascetic. Both are insinuated to be guilty of something, but the shield mentions that they are foreigners in this land. The being in the shield looks a tad different from Marika but a similar face, She is wearing red and dancing with a sword above her head. It looks like a twisty dance that is evoking red, black and gold flames that also look like flowers blooming from. One of the undead looks like its reaching out to hug her, and is burning to ash that feeds the flowers or flames sprouting from below her. There are these soldiers called fallen hawks in Nokron that burn themselves for torches.
These soldiers experienced something that stopped normal pillagers and hunters by the name of inverted hawks from burning wood or plants in their bonfires, now they burn themselves in accordance to the culture of either the nox or ancestor followers, only burning oils or anything besides the trees, because the stone trees are the remains of the ancestor followers. These hawk soldeiers that have converted are now called fallen hawks instead of inverted hawks and they look horrible compared to even some hollows. They are also in close proximity to where we will be able to enter the shadow world. But now the DLC released a woman dancing in red with swords, and a boat in the background that looks similar to the boats on the stone tablets. I believe that stone tablet can be read both ways, reading it upwards describes the ancestor followers death process of becoming trees and eventually sailing the stars, reading it downwards though, one of these same star sailing boats crashes down into a tree, one who's people would search downwards for treasure and power, pillagers in nature.
Thanks for bringing up the Hawk Soldiers! I almost forgot about them! This is gonna help me in my next video!
also concerning the table of lost grace: its related to the erdtree as in it seems to be a PART of it i.e. it burns when u burn the tree. Memories of champions are hewn into the erdtree... perhaps the table of lost grace is a memory of the fortified manor at its best point.
I didn't notice until now that the three different medallions have different designs in their centers. Also the Banished Knights really must've been some serious badasses (no duh right ?) they're even associated with that fringefolk hero grave which I take to mean they were truly honored warriors. And those guys can cast dragon communion spells which you don't see very often at least not until later on in the game
as you noted, Lokey had confirmed that it’s different kanji for “impaler” used in Messmer’s name vs the impaler catacombs (the later referring to the spikes that impale you) and that, as you also noted, the ghost speaking outside the church seems to be referring to the walking mausoleums (not Messmer)
Yeah the Impaler's Catacomb is a bit of a let down, it makes sense that the name may be just a mistranslation. Still, I think we learned something fun by looking the conflict between the being of the Crucible and the Banished Knight culture on the Weeping Peninsula !
@@JackisaMimic totally! loved the whole investigation. You know, i had never considered the Radagon / a dragon anagram! learn something new from you every video!
My pet theory has always been that the empyreans represent the various gods that vie for power in the lands between.
Malenia is the avatar of the rot god. Which feels more like a corrupted god of life, or rebirth, with a possible connection to the ancient kingdom.
Ranni is the avatar of the dark moon, the corrupted god of the nox. The dark moon seeming like a corruption of the moon.
Miquela is the avatar of the erdtree, free of the elden beasts corruption through the power of unalloyed gold
Messmer is the avatar of the fell flame, the god of the giants. A pure flame corrupted, thus the darkness. You can also make the connection to the god eating snake.
It always felt like the gods of the lands between were more naturalistic and then corrupted by the influence of the outer gods, like the elden beast corrupting the erdtree.
side note, the banished knights armor, particularly the altered helmet cloth, look identical to the cloth in messmer's armor both are red with gold fringes
There appear to be bigger, demi-human-esque enemies in the DLC. People assume that demi-humans are just evolutinarily pre-human, but maybe something about why Messmer was hidden away, or even the birth of the Erdtree, had something to do with how they came about? They may be a more recent development than it appears, which would be neat imo.
We see this currently with the Misbegotten, they are held to be a "punishment" for making contact with the Crucible. So we know that people can turn into less human like creatures. This falls in line with many GRRM's sci-fi stories where humanity regresses into primal states do to losses of technology or genetic manipulation.
my speculation on marika's statues being in a crucifixion pose is that her crucifixion was probably prophecized. Prophets (like Corhyn, or your character if you choose that starting class) glimpsed the burning of the Erdtree, which is why they know flame incantations. They saw the burning, but not its context. Likewise, I think they saw Marika's crucifixion, but not *why* she was being crucified. their worship of marika perhaps led them to theorize that she would martyr herself (like Jesus, which is what the pose is obviously reminiscent of), but actually what happened is that she was crucified for shattering the elden ring.
amazing video. reminds me of a guy that made vids like this for bloodborne. great work man keep it up!
I love the turtle shield but really wish it would have 100 percent physical protection.
im glad that there are no giant spiders on Weeping Penninsula 😅
Clicked the moment it hit my feed. Love every Jack vid
Since we know that Marika "first set foot" in the shadow lands, I think that weird phrasing is intentional. She is a Nox, meaning she came from deep underground. I suspect that we are not just going to get one new dlc area, we are also going to get another massive underground area to play through, which is where Marika came from.
Correction: Marika is from the Eternal City. I dont think that necessarily makes her a nox.
Sources? Marika is Numen not Nox, Numen and Nox being related isn't confirmed, and Marika being called "the Eternal" doesn't mean she came from the Eternal Cities. And the Eternal Cities were not always underground, and that is confirmed. They were banished underground.
Marika is a numen and the Nox are likely a faction of numen working against Marika. The Nox have also shown that they are inspired by the Sky and its magic, like the Astrologers but have come up with different magic and pursued different magics from them.
Marika has close ties to the black knife assassins, who are rumored to come from the eternal cities. That is why I believe marika also came from the eternal cities, such as the city of Nokron. Miyazaki stated the shadow lands are "the first place in the lands between that she stepped foot". He did not say "this is where marika came from" or "this the place Marika was born". That is my evidence that we'll be getting two massive DLC areas. Underground in a new eternal city and above ground in the shadow lands.
Mesmer was the slayer of the fire giants, also he embodies EVERY aspect that goes against the erdtree. He has giantflame, he has briars of sin, he has dragon communion and he has some sort of gelmir serpent? He is the embodyment of blasphemy. Also I beleive Farum was lifted from the shadow land not the lands between.
Great video!
You should do Stormveil since the exiles drop the Messmer butterfly and its a veil. Also starting to believe that Messmer killed baby Melenia to burn the erdtree the first time but who knows
Man, it seems there may be a connection between Messmer and demi-humans, there's always smouldering butterflies around them 😂
Idk much about elden Lore, but i imagine if Marika could create an age eternal, she would have someone be a vessal like maliketh into taking or being the host of these ruinous affinities since it would be easier to control a world if you also have the affinities that cant be stamped out or destroyed completely under your heel instead
I'd love to hear your opinion on why the demi- human queens have tattoos. Historically, tattoos were meant as rights of passage in certain cultures, and medicine or acupuncture in others. Maybe it's why the Raya Lucaria scholars were interested in teaching them magic?
I go over the demihumans briefly in my Carian History video.
The fools at the academy sneered when, I assume, Rennala gifted staves to the Demihumans. Just because they are not as "civilized" as humans they still have hierarchy, they still have a culture, when their leader dies they become disorganized, and their matriarchs are queens.
The significance of the tattoos is unknowable, but what we do know is that they must have significance. Just because demihumans dont speak like you or I does not mean they do not deserve the same respect as we do. They are living beings with thoughts, feelings, history, and a future.
Personally I think the banished knight is there to stop the communion along with ekzykes. They also have horns which seems to be the theme of the previous civilisation in the dlc. Maybe Mesmer’s flame (combined blood, chaos and black flame) and the dragon communion are the opposite to the this crucible themed faction and the banished knights couldn’t stop Mesmer taking their land?
love this, just chatting
Yo the hand ballista is clearly Guts'. He faced whole armies and demons alone with that in the first books
You're probably right, since the Jar Cannon exists I didn't even think that this could have been a reference.
@@JackisaMimic The repeating fire crossbow in the dlc kinda makes me think of Guts too hehe
hey jack also wanted to say the figure you say is marika's father is the one in my opinion depicted in statues as a bald figure holding a bloom or a flower
Maybe this will reveal that Radagon showed up to the scene a lot earlier than what we anticipated. Like he came to the Lands between with Marika?
Reddit and some other lore communities have also been talking about the impaling catacombs and I think the consensus it’s more of a mistranslation. The Impaling catacombs is a verb with no subject and more likely in reference to the catacombs itself. I wish it was connected but maybe a non-sewer water Messmer is better than a sewer-water loving Messmer.
I wanna point out something from the famicom interview: Miyazaki uses a weird phrase for the Lands between that gets translated as 'the world of interstice' in some translations. I've always thought the lands between was a reference to interstice and its nice to have it confirmed. Even without the reference to interstice, the lands between implies the existence of two other lands sandwiching it. I think ppl are missing the implication of the land of shadow... it implies there is some other land of light on the OTHER side of the lands between
sun realm is a good candidate for the land of light
two brothers in the cave is crazyyy
hey I watched your eclipse video the other day and it gave me the realization that the eclipse Miquella was actually looking for was the shadow of the erdtree. If the sun is represented by the erdtree, then the shadow of the erdtree could be seen as an eclipse (eclipses cause shadows, also there's a second tree wrapping around the shadow tree "eclipsing" it?). This goes really well with my other theory that the land of shadow is the realm of the dead, where things would go when they died before Marika got rid of death and the erdtree replaced the afterlife. This could explain why there are old cultures there as Miyazaki says, since no new things would die and be sent there, leaving those in the shadow realm lost to time. It is referred to as a realm at the end of the trailer by who I think is Miquella. Miyazaki also said that it occupies the same space as the lands between, which I think could mean its a realm layered on top of ours (or one is eclipsing the other). It could be more like a norse realm which is why Marika first stepped foot there (inter-realm travel) but I'm not sure how the erdtree could have been born there regardless to if my theory is wrong. Also the connection between death and dreams could explain why there's a giant baldachin over the lands. Other evidence is Miquella having to leave his body to go the shadow realm, and I think this is part of him trying to help Godwyn which is why the eclipse could be tied to it. Keep in mind we have to defeat Radahn to enter the DLC, maybe to free the stars since it's tied to the eclipse?
Reddit user garrulous_goldmask made an interesting point too
"Enia tells the Tarnished that 'the Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation…' (So technically three names, but who's counting)
If the Golden Order = the Erdtree
And the Rune of Death/Destined Death = the forbidden shadow of the Golden Order
Then the forbidden shadow of the Erdtree = the Rune of Death/Destined Death"
I have a theory that marika and the Newman are the result of interbreeding between beast men and dragons in the human form explaining how maliketh is her half brother
Your head would explode if you read GRRM's Thousand Worlds. There is a lot of 'interbreeding' between humans and what appear to be aliens to create these beastmen hybrids. Some are giant man eating bats and others are tunneling multilimb monstrosities that look like Royal Revenants.
I should probably do a video on all of the cross overs between Elden Ring and his other works.
eardtree burial for me means that you feed a tree with souls for it to grow and develop sap,like a real tree uses water at its roots to grow, and also that why the golden order is against does who live in death and also that why cultures in the lands between was apposed to it because it repurposed your soul,and this repuposing soul is what gaves marika and her chosen the power to conquer all lands between
and in the shadow of erdtree we see how this way of life came to be
also our tarnished needing to die in another land for marika to use them in her plan as her she needs this factor to happen to be albe to use the tarnished without it being influenced by the Greater will
oh damn u elaborate on this in the video i wrote my comment,i think the hive mind theory is like the effects of minor eardtrees into the life around them in DOTA2 lore some cosmic beings can effect the will of life forces around them and corrupt their mind into working for them
I knew your comment before you wrote it ;)
hey jack just also wanted to say i call this way that you are engaging with the game a lorethrough
i played all fromsoft games before elden ring and i enjoyed the games difficulty and challange alot as it was the selling poing ot the game but as a person interested in literature i loved narrative games like witcher 3 more and didn't engange with the story of the game while playing it because everybody said the story is obscure and you just have to watch YT vids about it to understand
when ER came out it i was working on my thesis about world building in fantasy literature also i talked about Tolkien and SOIF as modern popular examples and when i heared this games setting was written by GRR Martin i engaged with the game as you did,read every item thought about the environment and what is happening to the architecture and which part of map are in the weather of the area and the geometry and also the culture of diffrent types of enemy and creatures this land and i loved this game more than everything and alao it made the game much more easier because i used everything and me engaging with the difficulty level also got better
it saddens me that people play this beautiful works of art without engaging with it fully and the difficulty and the combat uniqueness and how well its designed gets all the spotlight in people's way of engaging with it like alot of firsrt playthroughs i have seen in like twitch and YT is just enemy killing and everything in the game that is useful for this purpose is just the main fouces till the end iam sure there are alot of from soft fans that never engaged with the world of ER narrtive other than sum ups of other people and interpretation
I agree. I was recording for the Farum Azula episode and the agony of characters like Maliketh I think is lost on many people, but it’s not their fault. You have to work to get the story of Elden Ring
as centered tarnished said i believe messmer is a representation of all the things marika considers as sins
Been waiting for this! Awesome video :)
An idea i came away from this video with is that messmer might be an adopted child to the gloam eyed Queen and he's the revenger in the mourn sword
BABE WAKE UP NEW JACK VIDEO DROPPED
never noticed all the moth cocoons all over Elphael, playing right now while watching and noticed that. adds up, but i dont know what all of them are for.
Just my two cents - this feels more like a live stream. Having a script (or at least bullet points) would provide more structure and make it easier to follow. I found myself getting lost at times when you struggled to recall certain names. If you were to only showcase videos, screenshots and gameplay with voiceovers (meaning no video of yourself), I believe it would help a lot to focus.
Apart from that, as always: Great ideas, interesting connections, and fun potential lore. Looking forward to more videos.
Totally understandable! I get that this type of video isn't for everyone, this is just a way for me to create videos while I do research for a scripted video. I like to have free flowing thoughts and then let the most cohesive ones float to the top. I also want to hear from others what they think.
This video I did with no notes, in the next one I may give myself notes and try to stick to just talking about specific topics. Would that help?
@@JackisaMimic Yes :)
Just wanted to let you know that I was thinking about this critique you gave and I think I came up with a way that will really improve the next video not just for viewers like you but for me making a better video(and more fun to make)
So when the Farum Azula video comes out let me know if you think it’s better, your small critique has helped me out creatively!
@@JackisaMimic Hey Jack. It's not a critique, just my personal opinion. These small changes would help your channel grow, giving it a more polished and professional appearance - and making it easier for everyone to follow.
Messmer has eyes like the tarnished after becoming one with the 3 fingers. Perhaps messmer has messed with the 3 fingers before and it’s a reason as to why he’s so powerful with fire. Maybe he’s the reason for all the stigmatisations. The crucible, the red hair and the frenzied flame. Messmer looks like a menace. Can’t wait to find out his actual story.
His eye is not from the flame of frenzy, but from dragon comunion. They look kinda similar admitedly
@@jakubchalupa8510 Nobody knows what his eye means and I'm tired of people pretending that they do lmao
Messmer represents all that is unholy in the eyes of the golden order. He has snakes, dragons, frenzy flame and scarlet rot.
@@buckyhurdle4776 Plenty of evidence to pointing to him having partaken in Dragon communion even his snake. The easiest and most damming is having your own character partake in it, the eyes change to match his. 😂😂
@@ramoraid Snakes are not dragons. You see a man wearing a two-headed snake, with reptilian eyes, and you think "dragon"? Why? He's associated with snakes, THAT is a claim with genuine evidence. He wears a living snake, he wears a snake helmet. He has SNAKE eyes
Nice video man
58:07 turtle pope who is a primary source makes it sound like radagon left renalla for Marika after having the 3 Rs, but I have a theory that mesmur was a one night stand so to say, while Godfrey was a thing.
Imp Head (Elder) boosts Arcane by 2 without downsides.
It weighs a lot, thats the main downside
@@ZomifiedHam has good defense stats though
Yeah there are few helmets that boost arcane looking at the item list but the Mimic Mask boosts it by a whopping 8 which is far more than any other helmet.
The imp head elder looks dope though
@@JackisaMimic Yes but Albinauric Mask raises it by 4 and makes you a frog boy which is better because frog.
Thorns is what’s preventing us from accessing the Erdtree when we first get there. Possible connection with thorn sorcery?
What if marika, when she first came to the lands between absorbed some fire or energy and had a child and then the residual fire kinda split from her and became Radagon. If Radagon is created of marika and not just a transformation it would explain a lot about how this god had two identities simultaneously
luna sounds like a demon from the outer dark
She’s a sweet little girl with a hell of a yell lol
Okay. I think I figured out that I have no idea what's up.
This is an awesome video although I haven’t finished it yet I do have a proposed theory, in the beginning of dark souls it is said that three hollows came across a mass amount of souls. And if all souls are returning to the erd tree these three hollows have found the remnants of the roots and the souls resided inside of them?
If i was gonna throw my opinion in here i would say the shadow that is being refered to would have something to do with miquella's eclipse because of the whole moon casting a shadow... but thats just me out here in left field
Radagon was never separate from Marika. They were always the same being.
"Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here as well. Shall I share them with you?
In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."
@@JackisaMimic two selves in one body. They were never two separate bodies. This second self which she used to walk the lands between in relative anonymity was somehow turned against her. It had yet to become the sole controller of the body or obtain full access to her divinity. There were never two bodies.
From what I'm seeing and what I know of the base game......my guess entirely, there is only one Erdtree in the world that we know of, Miquellas is dead so that don't count, I keep hearing shadow and veil, like it's the other side of the tree, we can't see or something, you have to kill Radahn, WHY, my guess the meteor, does something to interrupt the veil in some way, I mean it does come crashing down and that blinding light could have actually been the veil cracking, but still be intact where no one can see it, I believe the land of shadow is very seeable in the base game(like the dead center of the divine towers, with the big cloud), we just can't see it cause of the veil, and someone (my guess) has made it so no one can go there physically unless they (my guess) divest themselves of our own body to get there and Radahns meteor is the main thing that opens a new way into the land of shadows, now messmer hmmm he's a tough cookie, he's most likely what I would call "The Great first son" like everything came from The One Great, then came fractures, and births, and souls, but the Greater Will made a mistake.....that Marika didn't agree with, like I have a feeling that Messmer came directly from The One Great, before whatever happened, happened, then Messmer (something switched in his mind or something) burned down The Great Tree, creating the first cardinal sin, then Marika (only reason I say her is cause of Marikas veil) somehow created the STRONGEST mimic veil ever seen (or not lol) and sealed away the land of shadow til Radahn is killed and the Meteor cracked the veil covering the land, man that's a lot, I probably have all of it wrong but hey.....Elden Ring
And maybe it's just me but I don't believe Marika had any kids (unless she did before she became a god {which would be completely from left field}) in the land of shadow and Godwyn was her first born outside of the land of shadow, but then them being twins kinda makes sense, but at the same time, Godwyn didn't know any dragon spells til after he beat the dragons (so that lets me know he doesn't have dragon inside of him), but if they were twins, well looking at Miquella and Malenia, Godwyn and Messmer are complete opposites, Messmer is everything all at once, and Godwyn is what everything golden, and nothing negative.......yeah Godwyn was Born long after The Land of Shadow was sealed away, their not twins in my eyes, but who knows really
And Messmer was created not birthed (let that out, well kinda just had to make that clearer)
Rereading it man I make no sense
Is the line "a scion of the golden bough" not indicate Godwin was Godfrey's? Also, I always took Godwin taking on the aquatic features was an indication of kegare, defilement or stagnation
I don't think so because this could just be a reference to him being a child of Marika, but I am not sure. I have to think if this line is conclusive enough evidence against the theory, or if its possible that there is enough evidence to doubt. I was thinking on presenting the theory as something that is inconclusive, which I think in the end most things about Elden Ring will be.
@@JackisaMimic on that we entirely agree. We can almost never KNOW a thing. We can only take characters at their word and what we can parse from the environment. I've been chasing that Kagare comparison a lot, I believe that Zullie covered it a while back
The Weeping Peninsula i my favorite hunting ground
Godwyn wasn’t associated with dragons until he defeated fortissax and then they become buddies
My main piece of textual evidence against this is his dragon-like fish body and the golden lighting being associated specifically with him. The rest of the evidence is thematic and would need a whole video dedicated to it