Once again this video posted proves the dedication he has to continue his knowledge of the equipment he is called to work on , and obviously the manufacture knew it required a full unit replacement for the customer #respect " Sir "
Propylene glycol froze when the charge went low. The water mixed with the glycol comes out of solution and freezes. The consistency of a slurpee with the associated expansion of freezing. Have had chillers freeze the same way. FYI.
John T thanks. Very interesting. the glycol comes out of the solution and the water freezes? So not a pure glycol solution.... spectrometer test? Even if it were perfect the low charge would freeze solution?
It would be hard to believe it would have a glycol water mixture that would freeze. It's basically anti-freeze. I've worked on Taylor shake/soft serve machines for years that have basically this set up. Glycol tubes surround freezing barrel and are mated to suction line working at -10 saturation temp. Glycol doesn't freeze in that situation.
I think the refrigerant leak pressurized the chamber where the coil and glycol mix was, and with limited volume, it pressed down on the surface of the glycol mix. That pressure was telegraphed to the bottom of the pans, which are a weak point structurally, so they bowed up. Yes, the chamber was not air tight, but sufficiently sealed in order to allow pressure to rise within the confined space.
To clarify, we’ve had some chillers freeze enough, with 50% solution, to stop the flow. One brazed plate heat exchanger was oil canned, but the concentration was unknown, as it was gone when we got there. The customer uses city water when the chiller goes down and frequently all of the glycol gets dumped. FYI.
I don't know if it's your great explanation of everything you are doing, or what, but I keep coming back to watch these videos. I think is important to know how things work, to do your own maintanance or just to know that you are not getting ripped off by someone. While I personally probably will never use most of the knowledge you are sharing since I am more of a computer guy, many of the tips are very useful to know.
Nice to see you change your work gloves when you started popping metal.I thought for a minute you maybe heading for a sliced hand /finger but you were ahead of that danger as usual. Well done on a great forensic breakdown of the unit adding to your knowledge which is always helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to do this Chris! It's fascinating to see how they put these things together! Surprisingly simple. This sort of thing should help delfield too with R&D. Hope they're watching.... Looks like a bit more care and protection needs designed in at critical junctures? Solid trouble-shooting techniques. Well done....
It was definitely interesting to be able to take something apart and see what made it tick. I was quite surprised how well insulated and sealed that was. I expected it to lift right apart when you took the rivets out.
Cool video, Most of us don’t get a chance to really dissect a unit like that, really well done Chris, we really appreciate all your effort HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND THANKS FOR SHARING
I had the same issue on the top of a cooler prep-table. Stainless steel polyurethane insulation inside. Totally swollen so hard that broke the marble table placed over it. In this case the evaporator was placed independently of the body of the table, no pipes inside it, just an evaporator crossing the box, no glycol. Three technicians SCRATCHING OUR HEADS ONE WEEK AT LEAST trying to figure it out. Manufacturer didn't know what the hell could cause that, engineers discarded chemical reaction of the polyurethane. Thank for share the disection Chris 👌
Crap, sorry for 3 comments in a row chris, but for a short period of time, I worked refinishing tables for darden (mostly red lobster and olive garden). That pink stuff looks like cleaner i used to see them use to clean the tables. They started using it after that bird flu or whatever hit in 2009, and man it ate the poly right off the tables, kept us well busy. There was a pink one, and a blue one. Not sure if that might be the residual of what we're seeing on the back panel there? Probably not, but just a thought.
Just FYI if you don't know: those three vertical dots to the right of your post? If you click on them you can click "Edit" and it will let you change your post, so you don't have to make a second post if you forgot something.
@@throttlebottle5906 I know that stuff well. Worked for a few months in fast food (Never again thank you very much) and that stuff was used on everything. We ran out of it one night, couldn't sanitize the dishes. What a nightmare.
This was definitely an interesting change in direction with videos! (Not that the normal stuff get old). I'm like that too, where I'm interested in WHAT exactly failed or caused the failure. I would do more of these whenever you get the opportunity/time. Thanks!
Good job with the deconstruction and forensics of the failure. If more if these videos were out there and the crowd larger I bet the manufactures would respond quickly. Education for everyone is the best remedy for rub-outs, there may be a way to address the issue. Maybe like a foam insulation to prevent the rubbing, I know the solution should not be a plastic bumper. Were you able to see where on the stainless that the copper was rubbing? We know the copper was worn through but the stainless surface where the copper was rubbing should have been polished.
im starting school for hvac this January. im alittle nervous starting a new career and not really knowing what tools I need to start off with, great videos. im trying to watch all your videos.
I have never seen the inside like that before, very interesting how it is constructed. For some reason, though that color looks like glycol..... it reminds me of a soap/cleaner I had used in grocery stores/food prep areas if I remember correctly. When something fails in a peculiar way, its interesting to figure out why. Thank you for sharing!
HVCR videos: Thank you for your answer, someone commented below to turn down the volume for the one's who uses ear piece its uncomfortable with respect to his comment, I have replayed the video i think your videos have good volume !
Had to load one of these in my truck yesterday... Heaviest POS EVER!!! It's ironic , I had to do a startup on one of these awhile (done many) ago. After wrapping it up, when I'd looked at my phone, it was a notification for your video. Seems you'd posted a video of how to startup an exactly the same unit. I used to work in a manufacturing plant where we'd build similar equipment such as this one. I'd have to bend 20ft of 3/8" copper into a 1"x 2" pan such as that one. But our copper design had more coverage and was less complicated to build and service compared to this RIC, since we used 404A not a combination of refrigant and glycol. And also made salad bars and all sorts of equipment, electrical, assembly and all. Now I've been replaced with a machine and 3 other people 😂😂😂.
Gracias amigo por compartir tus experiencias. Eres muy profesional ,me gusta la forma que diagnósticas y la forma que lo explicas. Exelente you are my hero.
Thank you for using the guard on the angle grinder. I see way too many people operating grinders without the guards... people who should know better (like, on TV!). Those zip discs can shatter, and without a guard the shards can embed themselves into your guts or head.
you learn quickly after exploding wheels and discs and I've had many explode using them (open) in a air die grinder in automotive/mechanical usage. there's no guard on those, it was user beware, I've been hit with piece that ricocheted off other things and it still hurts lesson one, never have your face inline. lesson two, never have any part of your body inline, it's much easier when the wheel is 90 degree angle from you, unlike most standard grinders are made for, so they have a greater need for a shield
Very true! I will be going live on TH-cam this evening 12/23/19 @ 5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails, TH-cam comments and the live chat, come check it out if you can th-cam.com/video/K3iG5q_Q_0U/w-d-xo.html
I think that because the top box is so sealed off, a pressure bubble was forming in the glycol and it was expanding against the bottom of the pans. Eventually, the expanding gas in the top box was so much that it was able to displace the glycol through the holes you saw at the sides. Also, I think that the lines started leaking because of friction or vibration ware. I don't think that the leaking refrigerant was able to freeze the glycol at any point since on escaping the line, the expanding gas would 1. Be of a significantly lower pressure and 2. Be of a significantly greater volume. The top of the box seems to be made from aluminum which is a relatively soft metal and the bottom of the pans are of a relatively wide area so even though the expanding gas from the leak would be at a lower pressure, it wouldn't have taken much, especially under operation, for the bottom of the pans to be forced upwards.
Yes I believe you are correct. The box is well sealed and the yellow tramsit cap on the vent pipe was not removed on instalation so creating a sealed container. The leaking refrigerant pipe created the pressure which bent the base which was the largest area for the pressure to push against. The yellow vent cap would not have been pushed off because of the small diameter of the pipe giving only a small pushing force. The glycol leaks are esily explained, the leaking gas bubbles through the glycol causing vapour which under pressure would weep out of any imperfect in the container.
I'm curious if the leaking refrigerant into the glycol was able to create enough temperature drop to surpass the temperature at which glycol freezes and that popped the liner up...
@@ThoolooExpress if indeed it contracted, when it thawed it should expand and the void may be a pocket of air that pushed it up? just a theory. Being in residential I don't deal with glycol so I appreciate the knowledge.
@@ThoolooExpress it's not pure glycol, it would be a water/glycol mix and the water very certainly expands. glycol alone is too poor a thermal conductor
Chris does an autopsy. The value of watching your videos is that you don't just show how to fix things but rather search for the cause of the failure. In any field, a passion for knowledge is what makes someone a bona fide expert.
Those look like chili’s, any major repairs after 5 years they trash them, they don’t fool around spending lots of money them. With a leak in the rail it’s a death sentence for them. I just never new they had glycol in them! Learn something everyday.
Considering how sealed those units are, I wonder if the refrigerant leak built up pressure and forced up on the pans where there would have been the least amount of resistance.
Good video men! Ill start the hvac school in January to become a hvac technician! And ill be watching all your videos haha good video! And by the way you made it work? Or you just took it apart?
it probably bulged when the refrigerant leaked into the sealed coldrail. there was a cap on that overflow port that prevented the pressure from escaping, and pushed in the only place that would let it go: the cold wells. the cap probably takes 5-10 psi to be pushed off, but the basins would collapse with a few inches WC.
I wonder if the glycol compartment was not sealed completely and moisture from the surrounding air condensed in the glycol, eventually diluting it to the point it froze?
Hey, question, have you ever had a call to a unit that seemed to be noisy, and heard what I think they called the “death rattle” from the compressor? My friend found an old window AC unit in the house he moved into. I think it was an old, old Fedders unit (what happened to Fedders?). We tried it out, and, it made this really loud, repeating rattle, like a motor hum but much louder, at maybe 2 - 3 “rattles” per second. The unit seemed to still cool, but only barely, as in, it was better than nothing until we got a replacement, but it certainly was making a lot of noise and barely any cooling. What happens there?
I'm very curious about this manufacture. I have built custom systems like this. Not Glycol systems just freon bast units. We would weld studs and anchor the copper to the pan, and foil tape over the copper. Then place the pan rap in the cabinet and spray foam it as need be. This pan wap was cheaply done. Would you please tell me the manufacturer? Thank you soo much for all of your content!!
Delfield is the manufacturer I will be going live on TH-cam this evening 1/27/20 @ 5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from TH-cam comments, emails and the live chat. Come on over and check it out if you can, th-cam.com/video/5KtVii_Tw5M/w-d-xo.html
So every time someone dropped a heavy pan of cold food in that it rubbed. And every time they removed weight or put weight it rubbed. Over years can wear away the wall of the copper gradually. Combined with a random thin wall
Would it be worth it to fix it and put it back together? Wouldn't seem very difficult to weld it back together also with some new foam in the spot you tore out of.
Believe the copper tubing runs are "soaking" in the glycol which then has more surface contact area with the pans than just the copper tubing/evaporator.
Chris, Idea for your new channel, I need to know what are the best beginner tools :) or what you'd buy as a beginner vs what you'd save for later on. I know i need gauges and a scale, but beyond that, I have no idea haha.
@@HVACRVIDEOS That's going to keep me up tonight. The glycol couldn't have frozen. It freezes at like -75 degrees. Obviously I wasn't done by a person pushing on them. Did they customer say how long it had been like that? The only things I can think is it was like that since new or it was dropped upside down....hard
@@DoRC It's not likely to be pure glycol, likely a mixture just like you do with your car. Could be set for a freeze point of -20-0 or so. As somebody else pointed out, the combination of the system running lower pressures due to the leak plus the refrigeration itself mixed with the glycol could have caused it to freeze
I know it’s because they want to sell more equipment. But I’m surprised mfg don’t make those cold rails replaceable like any standard reach in evap. The way there sealed in makes it trashed if and when it leaks. So if it leaked during warranty do they send you a whole new box? 🤔 great video. Enjoyed seeing how it was assembled and the break down.
MR. ICE yup manufacture will replace it, but they will tear it down and find the leak themselves .. if they don’t find the leak or find something else wrong they charge you for the one they sent out ! Small self contained units like these are usually throw always .. sometimes they will fix but if the cold rail is leaking = trash
I'm no expert. But could it be at higher, or more normal refrigerant pressure could have bubbled through the glycol (coolant) causing it to make a break in the system
Could the top have been sealed so tight that the low , or equalized, refrigerant pressure (through the leak) forced the glycol to push the basin upward,,,, and eventually forced some glycol out? Maybe the glycol vent was blocked?
Chuck DeArruda Good theory, but remember the glycol overflow? It was only plugged with a rubber cap, which means there couldn’t be any pressure build up. I’m gonna say the leak caused the glycol to get too cold and freeze up/expand.
I'd imagine there was some electrolysis going on where the copper was touching the other metal, glycol/water mix goes acidic with age/thermal cycling. more so in heated applications that I know of, but it should likely all be replaced every 3 years
I just had to go back to a call this morning and I suspect the cold rails are leaking. It's a big delfield prep table with cold rails and refrigerated base. Yesterday I was able to pick up a big whiff of refrigerant with my sniffer when I opened the doors but was unable to replicate that level of detection. This morning I go back and fill to 175psi with nitrogen and left 10-15psi trace gas when I recovered. Again I got a high reading when I first opened the door but was unable to replicate with two leak detectors. I spent a couple hours total looking for leaks everywhere and I am afraid the cold rails are leaking. Customer has recently replaced the compressor and a txv on this thing. I thought a coil since I picked something up but I went through those coils several times with two leak detectors and was unable to pinpoint anything.
Old video but given the quantity of the leaked glycol is it possible it came from another point and sprayed up the back of the unit. Obviously leaks flow down but the splash pattern looked kinda like a fountain is all.
I might of missed something previously but why don't you do any hot work. From the looks of it I'm pretty sure we service some of the same customers but we also take care of their hot side- stainless and so on?
That's what we have you for. 😁 J/K I did the hot side for years, for public schools and the occasional restaurant. It's bad enough that I have to repair our electric furnace that decided to try it's hand in arc welding 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️. I have nothing against working on the hot side, but in restaurants, I'll pass.
sealed part ? then you had internal gas leak it then pushed up the bottoms then somebody drilled a drain hole ? what is that hole for ? maybe there was water in there at one point and refilled with gly may uncle bob came over and tried to fix for a free meal lol gylcol got into the foam and migrated to that hole overfilled
Hey man, I don't know what state you're in but I'm wondering if you would sell me the used 4 bottle Freon rack I saw in the background in this video... I've been looking for a used one for my 2014 Ford e250?
Once again this video posted proves the dedication he has to continue his knowledge of the equipment he is called to work on , and obviously the manufacture knew it required a full unit replacement for the customer #respect " Sir "
Propylene glycol froze when the charge went low. The water mixed with the glycol comes out of solution and freezes. The consistency of a slurpee with the associated expansion of freezing. Have had chillers freeze the same way. FYI.
Interesting thanks for the response
John T thanks. Very interesting. the glycol comes out of the solution and the water freezes? So not a pure glycol solution.... spectrometer test? Even if it were perfect the low charge would freeze solution?
It would be hard to believe it would have a glycol water mixture that would freeze. It's basically anti-freeze. I've worked on Taylor shake/soft serve machines for years that have basically this set up. Glycol tubes surround freezing barrel and are mated to suction line working at -10 saturation temp. Glycol doesn't freeze in that situation.
I think the refrigerant leak pressurized the chamber where the coil and glycol mix was, and with limited volume, it pressed down on the surface of the glycol mix. That pressure was telegraphed to the bottom of the pans, which are a weak point structurally, so they bowed up. Yes, the chamber was not air tight, but sufficiently sealed in order to allow pressure to rise within the confined space.
To clarify, we’ve had some chillers freeze enough, with 50% solution, to stop the flow. One brazed plate heat exchanger was oil canned, but the concentration was unknown, as it was gone when we got there. The customer uses city water when the chiller goes down and frequently all of the glycol gets dumped. FYI.
You should do more videos like this! Disassemble reach ins, prep tables, ect. As you change them out. Its cool to see how they are put together.
1:46 Chief cook: LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE
New hire: AAAARGGHHH
My school instructor showed us this video the other day.
Thanks for taking time to disassemble & show.
I think this has been the best content you have ever released, thank you. Keep up the good work.
Thanks bud
I love digging into old machines like this!
I don't know if it's your great explanation of everything you are doing, or what, but I keep coming back to watch these videos. I think is important to know how things work, to do your own maintanance or just to know that you are not getting ripped off by someone. While I personally probably will never use most of the knowledge you are sharing since I am more of a computer guy, many of the tips are very useful to know.
Nice to see you change your work gloves when you started popping metal.I thought for a minute you maybe heading for a sliced hand /finger but you were ahead of that danger as usual. Well done on a great forensic breakdown of the unit adding to your knowledge which is always helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to do this Chris! It's fascinating to see how they put these things together! Surprisingly simple. This sort of thing should help delfield too with R&D. Hope they're watching....
Looks like a bit more care and protection needs designed in at critical junctures? Solid trouble-shooting techniques. Well done....
What's that Aerosmith song called?
"Dream on"? 😂😂
They can't even set the DTC correctly, they're always set for defrost during the day 😲.
I like the tearing apart to find out what happened. I'll watch more of those videos for sure!
I really enjoyed the video Chris! Those cold Wells are design just like The hoppers are on the gravity fed ice cream machines that I service.
I love seeing the inside of these damn things. Really helps you learn. Thanks!
It was definitely interesting to be able to take something apart and see what made it tick. I was quite surprised how well insulated and sealed that was. I expected it to lift right apart when you took the rivets out.
Cool video, Most of us don’t get a chance to really dissect a unit like that, really well done Chris, we really appreciate all your effort HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND THANKS FOR SHARING
I had the same issue on the top of a cooler prep-table. Stainless steel polyurethane insulation inside. Totally swollen so hard that broke the marble table placed over it. In this case the evaporator was placed independently of the body of the table, no pipes inside it, just an evaporator crossing the box, no glycol. Three technicians SCRATCHING OUR HEADS ONE WEEK AT LEAST trying to figure it out. Manufacturer didn't know what the hell could cause that, engineers discarded chemical reaction of the polyurethane. Thank for share the disection Chris 👌
Crap, sorry for 3 comments in a row chris, but for a short period of time, I worked refinishing tables for darden (mostly red lobster and olive garden). That pink stuff looks like cleaner i used to see them use to clean the tables. They started using it after that bird flu or whatever hit in 2009, and man it ate the poly right off the tables, kept us well busy. There was a pink one, and a blue one. Not sure if that might be the residual of what we're seeing on the back panel there? Probably not, but just a thought.
Just FYI if you don't know: those three vertical dots to the right of your post? If you click on them you can click "Edit" and it will let you change your post, so you don't have to make a second post if you forgot something.
surface sanitizer is usually always reddish pink, so likely dead on :)
@@throttlebottle5906 I know that stuff well. Worked for a few months in fast food (Never again thank you very much) and that stuff was used on everything. We ran out of it one night, couldn't sanitize the dishes. What a nightmare.
Cool I finally see what a cooler table look underneath it
Cool disassembly of a type of unit many of us have never seen.
2:04
this fits so well
This was definitely an interesting change in direction with videos! (Not that the normal stuff get old). I'm like that too, where I'm interested in WHAT exactly failed or caused the failure. I would do more of these whenever you get the opportunity/time. Thanks!
Good job with the deconstruction and forensics of the failure. If more if these videos were out there and the crowd larger I bet the manufactures would respond quickly. Education for everyone is the best remedy for rub-outs, there may be a way to address the issue. Maybe like a foam insulation to prevent the rubbing, I know the solution should not be a plastic bumper. Were you able to see where on the stainless that the copper was rubbing? We know the copper was worn through but the stainless surface where the copper was rubbing should have been polished.
Nice find man. Thanks for breaking it down. Been curious what they look like inside.
im starting school for hvac this January. im alittle nervous starting a new career and not really knowing what tools I need to start off with, great videos. im trying to watch all your videos.
That was pretty cool how you took the unit apart.
I have never seen the inside like that before, very interesting how it is constructed. For some reason, though that color looks like glycol..... it reminds me of a soap/cleaner I had used in grocery stores/food prep areas if I remember correctly. When something fails in a peculiar way, its interesting to figure out why. Thank you for sharing!
Always wanted to know how these evaps were made. Great video Chris
HVCR videos: Thank you for your answer, someone commented below to turn down the volume for the one's who uses ear piece its uncomfortable with respect to his comment, I have replayed the video i think your videos have good volume !
great teacher of hvacr
thanks chris sir from india
Had to load one of these in my truck yesterday... Heaviest POS EVER!!!
It's ironic , I had to do a startup on one of these awhile (done many) ago. After wrapping it up, when I'd looked at my phone, it was a notification for your video. Seems you'd posted a video of how to startup an exactly the same unit.
I used to work in a manufacturing plant where we'd build similar equipment such as this one. I'd have to bend 20ft of 3/8" copper into a 1"x 2" pan such as that one. But our copper design had more coverage and was less complicated to build and service compared to this RIC, since we used 404A not a combination of refrigant and glycol. And also made salad bars and all sorts of equipment, electrical, assembly and all. Now I've been replaced with a machine and 3 other people 😂😂😂.
Good stuff Chris. Thanks for sharing
I like the post-mortem videos!
Loved it!! I've learned so much from these videos
Great job again like always
Gracias amigo por compartir tus experiencias. Eres muy profesional ,me gusta la forma que diagnósticas y la forma que lo explicas. Exelente you are my hero.
Nice video, thanks Chris!
Thank you for tearing that down.
Prying that apart was the perfect job for the most misused tool in the skilled trades...the giant klein flathead screwdriver
Thank you for using the guard on the angle grinder. I see way too many people operating grinders without the guards... people who should know better (like, on TV!). Those zip discs can shatter, and without a guard the shards can embed themselves into your guts or head.
you learn quickly after exploding wheels and discs and I've had many explode using them (open) in a air die grinder in automotive/mechanical usage. there's no guard on those, it was user beware, I've been hit with piece that ricocheted off other things and it still hurts
lesson one, never have your face inline.
lesson two, never have any part of your body inline, it's much easier when the wheel is 90 degree angle from you, unlike most standard grinders are made for, so they have a greater need for a shield
Very true! I will be going live on TH-cam this evening 12/23/19 @ 5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails, TH-cam comments and the live chat, come check it out if you can th-cam.com/video/K3iG5q_Q_0U/w-d-xo.html
I think that because the top box is so sealed off, a pressure bubble was forming in the glycol and it was expanding against the bottom of the pans. Eventually, the expanding gas in the top box was so much that it was able to displace the glycol through the holes you saw at the sides. Also, I think that the lines started leaking because of friction or vibration ware. I don't think that the leaking refrigerant was able to freeze the glycol at any point since on escaping the line, the expanding gas would 1. Be of a significantly lower pressure and 2. Be of a significantly greater volume. The top of the box seems to be made from aluminum which is a relatively soft metal and the bottom of the pans are of a relatively wide area so even though the expanding gas from the leak would be at a lower pressure, it wouldn't have taken much, especially under operation, for the bottom of the pans to be forced upwards.
Yes I believe you are correct. The box is well sealed and the yellow tramsit cap on the vent pipe was not removed on instalation so creating a sealed container. The leaking refrigerant pipe created the pressure which bent the base which was the largest area for the pressure to push against. The yellow vent cap would not have been pushed off because of the small diameter of the pipe giving only a small pushing force. The glycol leaks are esily explained, the leaking gas bubbles through the glycol causing vapour which under pressure would weep out of any imperfect in the container.
2:03 "This fits so well."???
I'm curious if the leaking refrigerant into the glycol was able to create enough temperature drop to surpass the temperature at which glycol freezes and that popped the liner up...
Glycol contracts when it freezes
@@ThoolooExpress Maybe they put very hot water in it so it expanded?
@@ThoolooExpress if indeed it contracted, when it thawed it should expand and the void may be a pocket of air that pushed it up? just a theory. Being in residential I don't deal with glycol so I appreciate the knowledge.
I think an experiment is in order LOL
@@ThoolooExpress it's not pure glycol, it would be a water/glycol mix and the water very certainly expands. glycol alone is too poor a thermal conductor
Awesome. Video 👍🏻👍🏻 two thumps up !!!!!
Chris does an autopsy. The value of watching your videos is that you don't just show how to fix things but rather search for the cause of the failure. In any field, a passion for knowledge is what makes someone a bona fide expert.
RIP to the guy at 1:50. Sounds like he dropped something important
Those look like chili’s, any major repairs after 5 years they trash them, they don’t fool around spending lots of money them. With a leak in the rail it’s a death sentence for them. I just never new they had glycol in them! Learn something everyday.
Those 5.11 pants are awesome
Yes they are, I'm gonna be making a video reviewing several brands of pants on my new HVACR TOOLS channel
@@HVACRVIDEOS sounds good bud looking forward to the reviews you will be doing
Excellent video 👍👍👍
This was fascinating.
Considering how sealed those units are, I wonder if the refrigerant leak built up pressure and forced up on the pans where there would have been the least amount of resistance.
My thought as well.
Good video men! Ill start the hvac school in January to become a hvac technician! And ill be watching all your videos haha good video! And by the way you made it work? Or you just took it apart?
wow that was very interesting. honestly didnt even know what glycol was lol
it probably bulged when the refrigerant leaked into the sealed coldrail.
there was a cap on that overflow port that prevented the pressure from escaping, and pushed in the only place that would let it go: the cold wells.
the cap probably takes 5-10 psi to be pushed off, but the basins would collapse with a few inches WC.
Oh, and it is probably vapor tight because of the few drops of glycol that got into it too.
Also did you happen to check the glycol with a refrac for proper ratio
Love your videos been a supporter for a while now. Also, how is that walk in freezer you visited twice?
Possibly due to staff adding hot water to cold pan for daily cleaning caused the leak?
Glycol has to be replaced over time with new maybe? Check with ohm meter if the glycol conducts.
Nice video / equipment autopsy
I wonder if the glycol compartment was not sealed completely and moisture from the surrounding air condensed in the glycol, eventually diluting it to the point it froze?
Nice vid chris.
NO DISASSEMBLE! NO DISASSEMBLE NUMBER 5!
Hey, question, have you ever had a call to a unit that seemed to be noisy, and heard what I think they called the “death rattle” from the compressor?
My friend found an old window AC unit in the house he moved into. I think it was an old, old Fedders unit (what happened to Fedders?). We tried it out, and, it made this really loud, repeating rattle, like a motor hum but much louder, at maybe 2 - 3 “rattles” per second. The unit seemed to still cool, but only barely, as in, it was better than nothing until we got a replacement, but it certainly was making a lot of noise and barely any cooling. What happens there?
Hi chris
Another great video, I don’t see a link on the tools you used?
I'm very curious about this manufacture. I have built custom systems like this. Not Glycol systems just freon bast units.
We would weld studs and anchor the copper to the pan, and foil tape over the copper. Then place the pan rap in the cabinet and spray foam it as need be. This pan wap was cheaply done. Would you please
tell me the manufacturer? Thank you soo much for all of your content!!
Delfield is the manufacturer I will be going live on TH-cam this evening 1/27/20 @ 5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from TH-cam comments, emails and the live chat. Come on over and check it out if you can, th-cam.com/video/5KtVii_Tw5M/w-d-xo.html
So every time someone dropped a heavy pan of cold food in that it rubbed. And every time they removed weight or put weight it rubbed. Over years can wear away the wall of the copper gradually. Combined with a random thin wall
Great video
just a thought. could the swelling be due to the leaking refrigerant trapped in the welbilt structure?
Perhaps it puffed the bottoms up due to excessive refrigerant pressure from the leak inside? It was pretty well sealed afterall.
How did you put nitrogen and tracer amount of 404 at the same time, when nitrogen is put on can you add 404 at same time?
Put a little 404 first than dump nitro on top
understood thanks!
Nice autopsy!!
Is it possible that they may have put something very hot in it causing the glycol to expand and bend the bottoms?
Would it be worth it to fix it and put it back together? Wouldn't seem very difficult to weld it back together also with some new foam in the spot you tore out of.
Hi Chris did you ever figure it out why the pans were pushed out ?
What is the glycol for
Believe the copper tubing runs are "soaking" in the glycol which then has more surface contact area with the pans than just the copper tubing/evaporator.
Chris, Idea for your new channel, I need to know what are the best beginner tools :) or what you'd buy as a beginner vs what you'd save for later on. I know i need gauges and a scale, but beyond that, I have no idea haha.
i feel like it maybe better in the long run to buy a newone
But why were the pans pushed up?
I never figured that out....
@@HVACRVIDEOS That's going to keep me up tonight. The glycol couldn't have frozen. It freezes at like -75 degrees. Obviously I wasn't done by a person pushing on them.
Did they customer say how long it had been like that?
The only things I can think is it was like that since new or it was dropped upside down....hard
@@DoRC It's not likely to be pure glycol, likely a mixture just like you do with your car. Could be set for a freeze point of -20-0 or so.
As somebody else pointed out, the combination of the system running lower pressures due to the leak plus the refrigeration itself mixed with the glycol could have caused it to freeze
what vacuum pump oil should i use in a cheap vacuum pump?
Black gold by JB is what most people use
Refrigeration mineral oil, whatever weight it calls for.
How did the bottom of the unit inflate
I know it’s because they want to sell more equipment. But I’m surprised mfg don’t make those cold rails replaceable like any standard reach in evap. The way there sealed in makes it trashed if and when it leaks. So if it leaked during warranty do they send you a whole new box? 🤔 great video. Enjoyed seeing how it was assembled and the break down.
MR. ICE yup manufacture will replace it, but they will tear it down and find the leak themselves .. if they don’t find the leak or find something else wrong they charge you for the one they sent out ! Small self contained units like these are usually throw always .. sometimes they will fix but if the cold rail is leaking = trash
I have seen these get water in the bottom from freezing and before it dry out it would freeze and raise the pans
Restaurant's on the east coast have this nasty pink cleaning stuff, maybe it was that? What do you think caused the pans to heave up??
I'm no expert. But could it be at higher, or more normal refrigerant pressure could have bubbled through the glycol (coolant) causing it to make a break in the system
what's name grinder blade you used to cut metal in this video ? Great video, Thank you for sharing ^_^
i love a good mystery
Leaking refrigerant + sealed chamber = pressure to push out not the only the glycol out of the hole but also the bottom of the pans up.
Could the top have been sealed so tight that the low , or equalized, refrigerant pressure (through the leak) forced the glycol to push the basin upward,,,, and eventually forced some glycol out? Maybe the glycol vent was blocked?
Chuck DeArruda Good theory, but remember the glycol overflow? It was only plugged with a rubber cap, which means there couldn’t be any pressure build up. I’m gonna say the leak caused the glycol to get too cold and freeze up/expand.
good video thank you
I'd imagine there was some electrolysis going on where the copper was touching the other metal, glycol/water mix goes acidic with age/thermal cycling. more so in heated applications that I know of, but it should likely all be replaced every 3 years
What caused the swelling?
wasnt expecting to hear people in the background, maybe me look around my house for a minute wondering who said that, lol
yeah they are loud at this restaurant!
These things don't have core charges?
I just had to go back to a call this morning and I suspect the cold rails are leaking. It's a big delfield prep table with cold rails and refrigerated base. Yesterday I was able to pick up a big whiff of refrigerant with my sniffer when I opened the doors but was unable to replicate that level of detection. This morning I go back and fill to 175psi with nitrogen and left 10-15psi trace gas when I recovered. Again I got a high reading when I first opened the door but was unable to replicate with two leak detectors. I spent a couple hours total looking for leaks everywhere and I am afraid the cold rails are leaking. Customer has recently replaced the compressor and a txv on this thing. I thought a coil since I picked something up but I went through those coils several times with two leak detectors and was unable to pinpoint anything.
Old video but given the quantity of the leaked glycol is it possible it came from another point and sprayed up the back of the unit. Obviously leaks flow down but the splash pattern looked kinda like a fountain is all.
What’s the job of the glycol?
To transfer heat evenly to the coils.
I might of missed something previously but why don't you do any hot work.
From the looks of it I'm pretty sure we service some of the same customers but we also take care of their hot side- stainless and so on?
That's what we have you for. 😁 J/K
I did the hot side for years, for public schools and the occasional restaurant. It's bad enough that I have to repair our electric furnace that decided to try it's hand in arc welding 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️. I have nothing against working on the hot side, but in restaurants, I'll pass.
sealed part ? then you had internal gas leak it then pushed up the bottoms then somebody drilled a drain hole ? what is that hole for ? maybe there was water in there at one point and refilled with gly may uncle bob came over and tried to fix for a free meal lol gylcol got into the foam and migrated to that hole overfilled
Hey man, I don't know what state you're in but I'm wondering if you would sell me the used 4 bottle Freon rack I saw in the background in this video... I've been looking for a used one for my 2014 Ford e250?
Don't know how to reach you personally
Email me at hvacrvideos@gmail.com
Box built pressure up bowing bottom up