Who Opposes the Thalmor at Home? (The Summerset Isles) - The Elder Scrolls Lore
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2022
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I would've loved an Elder Scrolls game set across the Dominion with a main story of either helping the heir to the Altmeri Crown or being the heir with the objective of overthrowing the Thalmor and reinstitute the Monarchy. Sort of like a Fable 3 storyline. Getting to decide at the end whether to be supported by the Empire and reassimilate Summerset, or choose independence and dissolve the Dominion.
Actually, I'd prefer if we could indeed overthrow the more tyrannical Thalmor, but the ones who wish to have the true heir back on the Aldmeri Throne aid them in essentially a Dominion Civil War.
After that, the Dominion has its laws reformed so it's more like what Queen Ayrenn would've wanted. A less radical government, a true King/Queen in power, and a better, more unified Dominion to take down the Empire, or at least watch it crumble from afar.
Like real life Meiji Restoration, an island nation with strong feudal ties(and some questionable ethics regarding honor and purity). That can be great.(Sorry for replying after 4 months but I wasn't able to resist the urge to say this lol.)
@@MinecraftSons That's alright. I am not one of those however who subscribe to the idea that Summerset gets inspiration from Japan or China. Not when we have Gothic architecture, Welsh names, British accents, the name Summerset from English province Somerset as well as a historical powerful navy (British Empire) something both eastern nations have lacked entirely. I get what you're saying about the Meiji restoration similarities though.
@@alexanderb5726 Good points. I always thought Summerset as a mishmash of two island nations. Some aspects like the name, architecture etc. very "Britainesque" but goverment ethos(like a very long lasting dynasty, a strong bureaucracy) and ancestor veneration(not as strong as dunmer but still there) as well as how society functions(it being more collectivist like Japan rather than individualist Anglo-Saxon) and last but not least their isolationist policies towards to rest of the world are a lot like "Japanesque". I like ES because of this there is never "oh this is the real life this" kind of thought, there is always something to debate.
@@MinecraftSons Fair points as well, I suppose mishmash is the most appropriate term. Though Great Britian has actually had its own periods of isolationism, even calling it "the splendid isolation" in 1822. And while as you say, individualism developed early on and was predominant, Imperial Britain had strong senses of familial identities and what one family member did to offset their honour or failed to do in line with societal expectations of their rank, cast shame over the entire house (like with Apraxic mer or the concept of Graxifalas failure).
I think that the thalmor mostly used wood elves, khajiit and goblins as soldiers rather than their own people and that the high elves where mostly filling the roles of officers and mages during the war. Kinda like Carthage used mostly mercenaries and berber levies during the punic wars and a very small number of the army were actually carthaginians.
Είσαι Έλληνας;
Possibly, I mean in ESO (different government I know) I actually think most of the AI soldiers are Khajiit or Bosmer
Having recently played College of Winterhold quest line I can say one of the groups that challenge the Thalmer at home are the Psiijic order
I played a High Elf where his parents were killed for opposing the Thalmor and he had to escape from them all the way up to Skyrim
With Alternate start I usually play as a Justiciar lol
Literally every other altmer player has the same. Backstory, its getting old, amanda
@@ServusCruxwhat? Do people need a a unique backstory to get a "do nut steal" label?
@@LadyAsteria58 yes
The Thalmor were pretty through at eliminating most of their early opposition but indeed the outcome of "The Great War" would likely play a part in weakening their hold. I would think that ranging from those that want to restore the Altmer monarchy, to remnants/successors to this "beautiful" faction, to all the Altmer who had integrated into the Empire / Human-cultures, to even potential factionalism within the Thalmor themselves; there's lots of opportunities for new possible factions to challenge the Thalmor.
I wanna see the empire or the grand alliance of human race sail to the summerset to exterminate everything living there and set the whole island into a blaze of hell and drove those elves abomination into an extinction, talos demand it.
@@chains2660 Just the Thalmor. Not all elves are demonic monsters. Anybody who is thalmor deserves to be tortured .
I really like your perspective on the Great War and how it also was a great loss not only for the Empire but the Dominion as well. Not something I thought about cuz all we hear is how the Nords and Imperials see it as a loss and the Thalmor ofc when talking about the war pretend it's a great victory and proves their superiority over the lesser races
Kinda like how the official Japanese story about Midway was that it was a total victory, they didn't lose a bunch of aircraft carriers, and those wrecks on the bottom of the Pacific were totally American.
And I anecdotally remember a Japanese official being quoted as saying that the war was a series of glorious victories that kept getting suspiciously closer to the Home Islands.
So like ethical and logical Altmer and Bosmer and Khajiit I would assume.
Hi, new viewer here! I love this style of video (research-and-explain) and I really appreciate that you cover the more “niche” and “mundane” topics of the Elder Scrolls world. In particular, I liked your videos on Tamrielic economics, and the Orb of Vaermina (I’m going on a bit of a binge of your content).
This is the most interesting lore, and the stuff that really grounds the Elder Scrolls series. A lot of channels cover the content most frequently interacted with in-game - like ALMSIVI, the in-game guilds, and special weapons - but that gets old quick.
I actually had this idea for a story about a High Elf woman who was originally a member of the Thalmor and fully believed in her people’s superiority up until she was forced to realize that the Thalmor did truly horrific and deprave things to achieve their goals and that not even their own people were safe from their cruelty. Rather then running away from her home land she chose to stay and do everything she can to eventually destroy the Thalmor from the inside out while helping any resistance forming.
That sounds cool. I had an idea about a high elf who believed that the elves were Supreme but opposed the way the Thalmor did things and denounced them for torture. Basically, his/her point of view would be how are we going to be viewed as supreme if we act so barbaric.
4 years ago you were my top ES content creator, and you still are. I certainly understand your frustration with YT since you've been putting out content YOU enjoy. But, I am one among many who has continued to love what you've been doing the past 2 years; just as much as the first 2 years.
I for one hope you continue doing what you love, because we love it when you do!
I think there is small resistance style groups in Valenwood and Elswyer but I think most of the opposition in Summerset would be from within The Thalmor
The thalmor have been around for a pretty long time they started out as an elite military group in the Dominion
Not everyone may be hard core Thalmor believers .Ancano probably was,due to his statement "the power to unmake the world"but people like Elenwen may simply be hangers-on for the privileges of power,so if any other power arose they might defect.
Ancano is part of a splinter faction, so he definitely wouldn't be a hardcore Thalmor believer.
what if the destruction of the Aldmeri Dominion is not from the Empire but from within itself? as the people travel around Tamriel and slowly, slowly, realize that hey, the humans aren't that bad.
I have a altmer built that was ex thalmor and is a leader to a rouge faction of high elves that oppose the thalmor after the Great War
Very interesting, always found the Thalmor and Dominion interesting
I imagine those Summerset thieves from that thieves guild quest line
I started this video off by reading your comment about not pleasing the audience, but you make some killer content! Really interesting take on how the high elf population would view the thalmor government post war.
Maybe if they had civil unrest within the isles it would balance the scale a little when the 2nd war with the empire does transpire.
Love your videos! I hope you keep making them. The video on the Great War was very well done with the maps.
I think the Aldmeri Dominion is a dead man walking. They're already imperial overstretched, their losses weakened the moral of soldiers and population. And the Thalmor try to compensate it with more fanatism and rushing to reach their goals what will automatically lead to big mistakes. In the times of Skyrim they already made big political mistakes and their actions seem to become more and more chaotic. All they can reach is chaos. Of course it weakens the empire but the battlefield tamriel becomes more and more unpredictable also for them. When the 2nd great war will come, the Khajit won't fight for them and there will be massive domestic resistance in Valenwood and Summerset. I doubt the Bosmer are willing to lose more of their fighters and population in another war. Moral and motivation will be much lower than at the beginning of the First Great War.
But I also think they stand a higher chance of beating the Empire than vice versa.
The Stormcloak rebellion is just a symptom of bigger problems within the Empire, even Ondolemar seems to think a second great war is in its way, and “It will be far more destructive than the last.”
Very astute take on an interesting topic. Great video.
I JUST found your channel, I have fallen in love. I enjoy your content much, and hope that when the next TES game finally arrives your channel will see a big boost
I can see the Thalmor assassinating their own kind with the Orb of Vermina before they start The Great War.
Nice little video
I love your videos man
Very interesting topic
Another question I have in mind. Are the Thalmors strong enough to invade Akaviri or stop an Akaviri invasion?
They weren't even strong enough to capture the empire.
@@szabok1999 so is that a "no"? The Thalmors are not strong enough to invade Akaviri and stop an invading Akaviri force?
@Mr. Fox
Sload haven't been a major issue after all of Tamriel beat the hell out of them
@@szabok1999
Only cause the Dominion is rather small compared to other major Factions. They've got quality but not the numbers
@Mr. Fox I hope in 6 the sload destabilized summerset so hard it sued to rejoin the empire and surrender it's vassal states
the thalmer won a Pyrrhic victory, a victory not worth the cost
The Thalmor is like the Axis and yhe Imperials remind me of the Allied powers. Even the Great War reminds me somewhat of WW1 which is kind of crazy how comparable it is to real life history.
Whatever happened to Queen Morgiah and her children? Were they killed in the Thalmor rise to power, or did they escape?
Interesting topic! Did you have a list of the in-game sources, or was it all Rising Threat?
Is there a video about Vampire and werewolf lore? I think that'd be cool
"... if [the beautiful] had risen to power, they would have almost certainly been one of the empire's strongest allies around Tamriel."
Would they have, though? I don't think a Sumerset Republican Army would have been entirely keen on being ruled by the commanders of the Ruby Ranks.
Nice
is it possible that the Thalmor had the Daedric artifact that was used during the great war even at this time?
I do!
the summerset was the most opposed to imperial rule in daggerfall
They really didn’t even get the abolishment of talos worship because the empire barely even enforced it unless absolutely necessary like in Skyrim.
I can definitely imagine theres a faction of high elves that felt betrayed by the thalmor during the Great War and start a minor rebellion against the thalmor
P.S many of these high elves are ex-thalmor so they are well organized but still pro dominion their primary goal is to restore the “honor and glory of the aldmeri dominion by driving the mongrol thalmor out of power”
If you're getting demotivated now, imagine how many people will be watching lore videos in the future when the next game releases. Even old saints row videos are getting massive views right now.
Ι really wish the Thalmor were not as one dimensional and "flawlessly evil" Something as simple as actual non underground bosmer and khajiit seperstists and others who oppossed them would be a bit more believable. Like I get they are evil and genocidy and stuff but still. But oh well, that's Skyrim writing for you
I think Bethesda was going for something like "The Elder Scrolls nazis", but I can see your point.
@@murilobeltramini7278 Yeah, that's probably it, but elf nazis doesn't sound that interesting. Just the evil guys, basically and noting more
All of Bethesda's main antagonists have always been rather one-note.
It's less of a Skyrim problem and more of a Bethesda problem.
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim Well you're right actually. But I feel like the Mankar Camoran and Dagoth Ur had a wee bit of redeemability, half assed, but something at least. And I know the Thalmor have the goal of becoming immortal again(or something like that) but I can't remember if that is even mentioned in game? Or am I mistaken
@@modelnanpresident Dagoth Ur had practically no redeeming qualities. His plan was to enslave the world.
The only redeeming quality I can think of is that he was willing to let the Nerevarine join him regardless of race.
As for Camoran, I can't think of a single redeeming quality. He lies to his followers about paradise, he murders innocent people, all to summon his master to _destroy the world_ because he has this notion that it should belong to Mehrunes Dagon.
As for the Thalmor, they eventually want to return to their original form, the Original spirits. In order to do that, they need to unmake the world.
No, it hasn't been directly mentioned in the games, so Bethesda can always change things. But that's what it looks like it's goals are.
Does the Psijic Order count as opposition against the Thalmor?
6:16 Anyone know what armor mod is used here?
You mean Bosmer Armor Pack?
@@Fatalitix3 possibly
ES fans: “Who opposed the Thalmor in Alinor?” Me: “Who opposes Putin in Russia?”
I actually wondered this same thing. I'm trying to make a playtrough with altmer. And Altmerst are hard to get "into" when comes to backround thinking. Basicly most of them being lorevise assholes. And thalmor... Are something hard to agree.
7th comment
No one! The Thalmor will lead the Aldmeri Dominion to victory!
22 years to find out about Martin Septim? That's some lazy writing, Bethesda.
Even Thalmor have liberals? Lol
The term you're looking for is dissidents. Given that dissident and antigovernmental movements don't have to be seeking or advocating for liberty or social reform.
Like the first thing to come to mind isn't Liberals or Progressives...It's the Altmer Royalists, Ancient Faiths, Pro-Empire/Imperial Assimilation and (Multicultural/Pragmatic) Criminal Guilds. We know for one example that the Psijic Order which is a highly conservative/traditionalist faction in the history of the Isles is itself "dissident" being isolationist and Anti-Dominion rule.
@@flamesofchaos13 I wasnt "looking" for another word. I said it cause "your nation literally is becoming a world power and you have a problem with that" is a very liberal mindset.
@@JRBDWD Not really given every type of person is capable of that anti-imperialist dogma besides imperialists. Plenty of conservative elements and factions can be pro-peace or anti-warmongering. In fact many times in history it's the more progressive elements that advocate and support violence and warfare to extend their ideology as far as possible.
But given things can be confusing nowadays about what a Liberal even means the definition I'm using myself is..."relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise."
Which doesn't quite fit into many if any factions on Tamriel. Dissidence and Political Conflict and Anti-Imperialism aren't regulated to a certain ideology either. Most certainly many Altmer that lived prior to the rise of the Dominion would understand just how corrupt and idiotic it truly is...Most of said Altmer being from a society that values patience and tradition the most likely political leanings are towards a conservative approach. Even their "Progressives" or "Liberals" would be Conservative according to our definitions and rulings.
I just don't see them as Liberals this parallel to our reality is unfounded.
@@jlord9638 Of course not every single last Altmer is a Thalmor or Dominion supporter. That isn't in any measure what I'm claiming or debating. What I'm stating is just because someone is anti-imperialism or anti-government or anarchic or dissident...Doesn't inherently make them a Libreal because that isn't the defintion nor the ideals of Liberalism. Sure a Liberal can be any of those but so too could a Conservative or Moderate or any other form of political ideologue.
The Elder Scrolls universe really doesn't have Liberals as we know them. They have progressives and dissidents and freedom fighters (according to their ideologies) but not really anyone advocating for true Liberalism.
Individuals serve the collectives and higher classes in every government, Social reform is not always the issue being brought up or fought for, Democracy doesn't exist as an idea let alone a practice or theory, Free enterprise is somewhat advocated which is really the only Liberal policy that is understood by the peoples of Tamriel, Civil Liberties are certainly not don't kid yourself there not even the Nords practice that as the most freedom-loving country.
They have Monarchies, Empires, Theocracy, Despotism, Militrary Juntas, Death Cults...Not Democracies Full or Flawed. Republics are the closest type of government that has hany kind of Liberal understanding...But they're Conservative and Traditionalist leaning with high importance on the Church/Faith and Crowns as more than symbolic positions.
Royalists, Criminals, Anti-Tyrants, Pro-Empire aren't Liberals they're just other forms of Conservatives or Moderates or Non-Politicals that don't advocate for racial supremacism or imperalist ambitions or invalid propaganda or Daedra worship/deal making like the Thalmor do.
In short my argument is Liberalism isn't a major political ideology if it exists at all within Tamriel let alone the more Conservative-Traditional lands that make up the Dominion. So how could you claim any subject of them as a Liberal when it's made very clear they're simply put a Rebel or Dissident? Even with examples of Conservatives being said dissidents presented right in front of the player.
It just seems like an bad take to the political nuance and differences Tamriel has compared to Modern Day Earth. It seems like it's a rant from real life infesting this Fictional Fantasy World.
Yeah and they're anti-social iconoclasts (big shock)
are the thalmor just nazis?
The empire gave up. That's the only reason they survived. That's all the thalmor wanted. They think in the long run. They know what's going to happen. They are experienced. They wanted the empire to submit. So when the empire did. They allowed them to decide whether or not they were going to accept the rules of their treaty or be destroyed the rest of the way. The empire picked the treaty.