Recreational Sidemount Diving. Is it still the boss?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Deefer Diving's new TH-cam channel, D for Diving.
Today, Jon and Gary have a lighthearted discussion on the subject of recreational sidemount diving and why its a popular and relevant system outside of caves, wrecks and other tech dives. That's not to say they both agree or share the same views, so sit back and enjoy some good British Banter
What are your views? Is there a place in for recreational sidemount diving, or is it the child of the devil?
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![Back Mount vs Sidemount {[My Biased Opinion]}](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M0OpJSzf948/mqdefault.jpg)
Your last statement is exactly why I want to do sidemount. I want the ability to ease into tech without feeling overwhelmed. If I can become very comfortable and proficient in sidemount before that tech journey starts, it just takes one major stress out of the equation, allowing me to focus on other things.
Depending on the type of technical diving you're planning to do will determine if sidemout is the setup. As Jon mentions, the config has its pro's and con's, but you look way cooler diving SM than a twinset. As both guys have noticed more recently when doing to crazy deep stuff, having 5 tanks side-mount quickly becomes a PITA, and Gary was left longing for a couple of bank-mount tanks to spread the load. But in the Florida caves, it was SM all the way baby!
I'm TeamGarry sorry John :) I started out in tech on a twinset and struggled with the weight, how it felt like I was always fighting to keep my head up and like I had a house on my back that felt like I was driving a top heaving bus with a slight twist and I would roll over. After doing my deco training I tried a sidemount course and loved the feeling of flexibility, freedom and ease of trim (yes I agree on the front clutter but you can clean that up by stowing and good muscle memory). My German instructor for deco procedures scoffed and laughed at me when I returned from the sidemount course led by another instructor and I yelled 'sidemount baby' :) Each to their own and like Gary said, I'm going to strap into the CCR before you will ever get me back into top heavy drunk tortoise mode. Another great advantage here is for folks with physical disabilities where we can assist them into the water and then hand the cylinders over once they are settled bobbing in the ocean. So now what about single cylinder sidemount? I'm seeing this more regularly now and I think it is also a nicer setup for flexibility and has more benefits than a single cylinder backmount conventional method and also safer for one example in a total freeflow you could feather your gas which is a better alternative to buddy breathing because all your gas escaped whilst it was strapped to your back with an inaccessible valve to shut down. Of course good training here is paramount.
Thanks for the feedback Wayne. Yay #TeamGary. Gary wasn't enamoured with twinsets partly because of the weight and cumbersomeness, but also because of the elitist nature of the dive clubs he was part of in the UK - there was a lot of pressure for divers to move to twinsets because its the "best" way to dive.... Meh!
A big questions we have on SM though - is it still popular or has it gone back to being niche?
Great discussion guys, Gary has a great point about Recreational sidemount as a gateway to tech.
Thank you....
There's a difference between Sidemount and Front-Mounted Doubles! 🤣 #TeamGary
#NiceOne.... ✌️
Entretenida conversación. Bibotella para mi.
Gracias Cristian ...
#sidemountistheanswer ,It is a good allaround tool for any kind of diving. Sidemount done right is a great ans safe way to dive also in open water environment.
#TeamGary could not agree with you more
Double on back. So yesterday.... hahahaha . When you finish your dive, are you not suppose to avoid strenuous exercise? At least for an old chap like me 😂😂😂
Yes and yes
Don't forget that it's a lot easier to go to a destination and get two cylinders and jump in water. Getting a twinset at destination isn't always the easiest. Sidemount divers have better in water balance, easier on the back, more readily available, and looks alot better than a grumpy tech diver in twinset... Not to mention that you have a fully independent back-up system with all components within easy reach.
You won't have any pushback from me on those points Brock... #TeamGary
I am in the middle of this discussion in my mind and I don't have an answer yet. I love side mount once in the water, but in boat dives or harder to get into the water dives, twinset is so much easier. Then you go into caves and that's a different story. Hard decision. Both works.
The thing I don't like about twinsets is the weight and physical bulk of the unit when you're trying to move and transport it. SM is a lot more easy to move as its just two tanks.....
Water entry - I'll typically only mount one tank pre-entry and then attach the second tank when I'm in the water....
@@DeeferDivingCarriacouthank you for the entry tip. I think it will help most of the time. I also agree about travelling. I can't fly with my twin tanks. Regards to the entry, I have an issue with really high entry from wharves. I can use the stairs with my twins, but I need to lower my single tanks via rope.
How long have you guys been a couple?
LOL... We'd have made a great couple and have so much fun together.... However, Jon has now moved back to Europe...
If you don't move the discussion to a twinset vs sidemount talk and keep it more sidemount vs traditional recreational do we think that sidemount is a good choice for rec diving? I think it is hard to talk about sidemount and not devolve into a tech diving discussion and stray away from the rec mindset.
There are many people who enjoy SM for recreational diving (I did), and enjoy the benefits of redundancy and flexibility of config. The same is true with twisets, with the exception of practical transportation.
In the tech sphere, I employ both. BM Twinset with my stages or deco gases SM's. keeps things streamlined and neat. You can only really do that if you've learned how to dive both competently.
My philosophy is that the options are like icecream. They're all good, but sometimes you fancy something different
Team Gary. But to be fair I don't have twinset experience. I went from single cylinder backmount to sidemount due to a spine injury that made it painful to have a cylinder on my back. Even though that is no longer painful I've stayed with sidemount for all my dives. For rec diving I like the added redundancy, ample gas supply and easy trim. For tec the same things apply but I can easily add one or two stage cylinders and still be streamlined. Staying with one config helps muscle memory as well.
I have to disagree with Jon about his extra stuff complaint. Some stuff (valves and bungees) under your armpits sure, but there isn't really much extra compared to a bp/w setup as far as straps and stuff, is there?
Gary here - I'm with you in that there isn't that much 'clutter' and once you have your rig dialed in and have built muscle memory it becomes much easier. Jon's points are valid in so far as with the tanks on the back he has more freedom to move his arms and everything is in a familiar place - but I chuckle when he's getting his twinset onto the boat versus my SM setup. The big difference I really notice for people diving SM versus not is when you see them diving tec/CCR and they have stage or bail out tanks with them. SM divers have them stowed streamlined and neat. Twinset divers.... well... don't. But either way is good, as long as you keep diving and you're safe...
How exactly are twins "more redundant" than sidemount? Worst case, you still need to isolate them. That's time that gas is lost from both cylinders. Not a problem with isolated twins like in sidemount. Also you need to figure out which valve to close. Is it a first stage failure or a valve failure? This question is not an issue in sidemount for the choice of which knob to turn. If at best, I can make an argument that manifolded twins are compromised redundancy for comfort over sidemount.
If you are sidemount diving from boats or kitting up on land a lot, you should consider using a ring bungee system, so that you have a hard metal connection holding the cylinders up. Not really a problem of the sidemount configuration but a bad choice of particular setup. That's akin to complaining about your van not being good for street racing.
Hey Tobias. I'm with you. In a standard twinset/manifold, if you have a 1st stage or valve failure you're not in any better position than on SM.... but then I'm the SM fan and Jon prefers Twinset. Its a great debate though, and the answer to which set up is better clearly has to come down to personal preference... Love your feedback and thoughts though
@@DeeferDivingCarriacou Hi Gary, there is one argument for manifolded twins in the case of a first stage failure. You can still breathe from both cylinders. In SM, I need to swap over regulators to access the remaining gas in the cylinder with the malfunctioning first stage. It's not a problem to breathe down one cylinder, swap the good regulator to the other tank and continue breathing it down, but it requires either a buddy or a third stage to breathe from while swapping. And then you'll want to service both regulators. So, in that sense, the manifolded twins are better, but in the end, it's no more than an inconvenience that rarely happens with properly maintained equipment.
This is why you learn sidemount from someone who actually knows how. Based on comments i wouldn't learn from John.
And that would probably be the right choice too. Learning something as finessed as sidemount diving is always best coming from someone who loves the configuration and dives it regularly. What's great about this conversation is that both Jon and Gary are experienced enough in a multitude of different configutations that they are able to cut through the novelty and make an informed comment on their own preferences. Jon is a very experienced tech and ccr diver, who just prefers doubles even when caving. It's great to be able to have debate and listen to opinions/views as we allow ourselves to form our own over time.
Good luck with you diving, sidemount or otherwise... Just getting wet is what its all about.
Just get a bigger tank with an H valve...
LOL.... That's one way. Of course doesn't look as cool, or give you full redundancy.... but its one way
No redundancy in side mount.
What are you talking about? Sidemount is 100% redundant! You have two complete scuba systems as standard and can add more if needed. The reality is, SM or doubles is like mayo or ketchup with your fries. Everyone has a preference.
@@DeeferDivingCarriacou Hi, thats not entirely correct.
Here are a few examples where Side Mount doesn't match the redundancy of Manifolded Doubles. (Twins)
1 You have a leak or a burst in your LP regulator hose. With side mount you close off one valve swaps tanks (regs) and you now have only 50 % of your available gas supply left, or worse. With Manifolded Doubles you just close one valve and still utilise all the gas in both tanks.
2 You have an uncontrolled free flow in a second stage reg, once again you close off one valve and are down to only 1 tank. Not the case with Doubles.
3 You have a leak at the first stage or a failure of the valve. As above same again.
Doubles and side mount are just two different tools yes.
environmentIt's
4 Also when carrying deco cylinders Doubles makes you more stream line. Easier access to the cylinders. You've got cylinders under cylinders with side mount.
If you're Old and Feeble, 🤣 have a bad back or perhaps a small framed female sure side mount is best for you.
But for the rest of us 🤿 especially in Wreck and Tech Diving you can't beat doubles and their redundancy makes them safer. 🤿👍🏼
If your anxious with poor air consumption you either shouldn't be driving or need additional training.
Typically an anxious diver needs to dive some more to alleviate the anxiety. They need to gain confidence in the training they already have and learn to relax. More training will likely lead to further failure reinforcement. There are also those divers who know they're heavy on air - and the anxiety/pressure this puts on them knowing that a dive is called early because of them.... and everyone in the group is unhappy because of them. It can turn people off diving, when there is a simple solution.
Its important as a dive pro to listen to your students and clients needs and work with them to find a solution they can work with.
@@DeeferDivingCarriacou I hear what you're saying but teaching best practice first is always best. Rather than find a stop gap for a problem that can be fixed with proper training.
What cutter ?, you must be diving something other than true sidemount
What Jon doesn't like is having all of the hoses routed around your neck, and the inflator under your arm and tanks under your armpit. He prefers the simplicity of a twinset back mount. As a result he avoids diving sidemount whenever possible (we have no caves in Carriacou, so that's kinda easy to do).
On the other hand, I love sidemount and prefer it to the idea of a heavy twinset. As I've gotten used to the configuration and got my rig 'just so', I am able to don of doff my tanks with ease and love it for photography and video work too.
What we both like the most is that these alternative configurations exits and they give us all choice. Choice to try something different and the option to be a fan or not. That said, I still think its the BOSS!