Rand was written off the show, she was forced out and essentially fired after being sexually assaulted by one of the execs/producers who she resisted . I dont believe she ever revealed who it was. Everyone knew about it at the time. The scene in the Motion Picture after the transporter accident, Kirk turns to Rand and says "It wasnt your fault, Rand"... since years ago women, because of what they wore or said, were the ones to be blamed for such sexual assaults. She never recovered from what happened in hollywood, she was essentially black listed.
"You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away!" That will always be my favorite Kirk quote, and IMHO encapsulates his character very well.
Kirk climing El Capetan at that age could be put down to the Medical fitness of people in the Era being way better than in modern day. Hell look how old vs Medicaly fit Admiral McCoy was in TNG.
You know when you commented on a 58 year old Kirk climbing that impossible rock at his age well look at him now at 91 with a fuller schedule than most 30 and 40 year olds in real life. Never underestimate the Kirk.
It's funny you should mention William Shatner playing Kirk free climbing a cliff in Star Trek V. In the TV show Better Late Than Never he costarred with Henry Winkler, Terry Bradshaw and George Foreman. They traveled around to different countries kid of like a bucket list. In Japan they went to a shrine to overlook a valley with Mt. Fuji in the distance. There were about 1000 steps to get to the top. Guess who was the one to be able to do it without stopping? Shatner. George Foreman was the first to have to rest to get to the top. Anyway, was a great show and very funny.
People hate on Shatners acting but honestly his portrayal of Kirk is the main reason Star Trek ever lasted past the 1960s. Don't bite the hand that feeds you :\
Absolutely loved this video. I actually didn't sit down and watch TOS end to end until 8 years ago or so. I had always enjoyed watching random episodes, but had never seen the series as a whole. Years of mockery had given me certain Kirk expectations. I was quite pleasantly surprised. Watching it I remember feeling all the tropes about Kirk were present, but had been greatly exaggerated and were not nearly as constant and over the top as I had been led to expect.
All you’d have to go off of is the first half of the original series’ first season, The Motion Picture and the first two seasons of The Next Generation.
The short of the Long will be: "Star Trek has evolved and grow best WITHOUT the input of Gene Roddenberry. Often reflecting the mindset of cultural sensibilities of the time, Star Trek has striving to be of that time. The current generation of Star Trek TV an Movies continues this but mostly could be easily accused of being 'too smart for its audience'. The subtleties of character development and arcs, thematics and general storytelling are easily lost on audiences who may know older episodes by heart but are frequently incapable of watching and comprehending anything new. Or is attacked for politics not connected to the show simply to argue. But if anything, in 20-30 years, this generation of Star Trek will be a time capsule of just how out of touch the audience is with Star Trek, forgetting it is entertainment and not bias confirmation."
I was kind of upset with Kirk just pulling the rug out from under Deckers feet as Captain. Star Fleet would make that decision , not Admiral Kirk. I know Admiral Kirk was given the Enterprise by Admiral Nogura, but Star Fleet would have notified Captain Decker.
Kirk in The Original Series was very nuanced. Shatner made very subtle yet important acting choices that made the character who he is. I would recommend listening to The Enterprise Incident podcast, because there's so much you've missed about Kirk in The Original Series.
It's funny isn't it to think of those other actor's who were in line for the role of Captain Kirk it's just unthinkable to imagine any one other than William Shatner in the role he made it his own, and to think he said he very nearly didn't do it as he had some other thing he was down to do I really think the star's were aligned that day!
I'm a fan of much of the Kirk Trek books. Probably because I was born when the show came out and Kirk was my template for heroism. For decades he was considered the most popular hero worldwide- outshining Robin Hood, King Arthur and other legends. So, it's little doubt that the hero-worship goes pretty further than any other Captain in Enterprise history. Especially if you look at Kirk's achievements. in the Trek universe compared to others. Hell, what other captains have their own statue in their home town they are GOING to be born in? Pretty heady stuff.
A great analysis of the TRULY GALLANT Captain Kirk. Yeah Shatner's ego is a bit much, but I have my doubts anyone else could portray the ICONIC LEGENGDARY Kirk. It's the story ONLY HE CAN TELL!
TOS episode that really showed Kirk in a more complex light was The Conscience of the King. He's essentially a holocaust survivor. And he spends a lot of the episode seducing a woman - not because he's remotely interested in her, but just to get evidence against her father, who he believes is guilty of crimes against humanity. He was never more ruthless and manipulative than he was in this episode. Sidelining Decker to get the Enterprise back was nothing compared to some of the things he did in TOS.
I have always had a huge soft spot for TOS Kirk. I also love the 80's films, and/but they definitely have a seasoning on them that takes the original flavor of kirk and adds a lot of cultural context and a lot of Bill. TOS kirk is a little more "pure" in a way because it is really Bill Shatner playing a part, whereas later iterations stack onto and overpower that original character. Love these videos bunches!
I have no problem believing that an aging Kirk could climb the mountain. His desire to hug the mountain--to envelop that mountain--would be enough to overcome any physical frailties.
Kirk wasn't much of a ladies man. He was known at the academy for always having his nose in a book and was in a long term relationship. At least two of the women he was with, Elaan of Troyius being one, it was dub!con with Kirk being unable to consent.
A lot of casual Trek fans think of Kirk as some kind of warmonger who loves battle. I guess this is on display in episodes like Errand of Mercy, where Kirk and Commander Kor are basically arguing for their right to have an interstellar war (something he is embarrassed about by the end of the episode). But it's a misconception, as Kirk routinely looks for peaceful ways out of conflicts.
Personally I think Captain kirk was the best captain, and I will always respect Shatner's role in forging that: I would not hace liked to have been working with the man...
2:26 Actually not true. Lord offered to take if he got 50 percent of the show's profits! They turned HIM down. Also 5:50 is wrong. In the second pilot Where No Man Has Gone Before, Gary Mitchell makes fun of Kirk for being too dedicated to school work at the Academy, aiming a "little blonde technician" at him to make him lighten up.
For a good Kirk book (that is not written by Shatner) I highly recommend picking up the Autobiography of James T Kirk. This is a fictional autobiography where Kirk writes about his life from a kid, all the way too Star Trek 6. It is a must read for all Trek and Kirk fans.
So here's the thing people always forget about what was actually very decent writing for the reboot. Remember Shatner's dad dies too early, he's supposed to be around not dead before Kirks born. So now you have Kirk who had a dad that cared for him and moulded him into a great role model and captain not having any of that. It was brilliant in my opinion because he's still the Kirk we know (cheats in Kobiyashi) but instead of maybe learning quicker he rebels. He is a rebel but without an authority figure its been dialed up to 11. So with the 2nd and 3rd installment he's still trying to curtail that rebellion but it doesn't work out like that so he has to learn things the hard way which is why I enjoyed Pine's Kirk. He had to learn quick and learn fast and made some whopper mistakes along the way. Film & TOS Kirk made some mistakes but he was read for Starfleet etc. I think they did a really good job with him. I may not have enjoyed the reboots but they did the characters well.
@@RowanJColeman Thank you =) Also I saw a few comments on ST 2009 when it released that he wasn't the bar fight type. Hey remember Picard? Remember how he got stabbed in a fight he started? Bullshit lol.
You make some excellent points here. But I am with you, I didn't enjoy the reboot movies, mostly because they were to focused on CGI effects and action over character and solid thought provoking stories. But the difference of Kirk having a dad in one universe and not in the other would have an effect, which is why Pike becomes his surrogate father. However my biggest gripe is that because they insisted on telling Kirk's story from before he joined Starfleet they left themselves with no other way to get him into command of the Enterprise for the next movies other than promoting a Cadet to Captain. It looked ridiculous on screen and makes no sense what so ever and shows the lack of real planning that went into this ... or the fact they simply didn't care and rammed the stupidity through figuring no one would care, lol.
A note about Kelvin Kirk, is that he IS a slightly different version of kirk because of his upbringing - so some of his character flaws could be magnified - perhaps that's why Kelvin Kirk needed a strong smackdown in ST ID, which is my fave Kelvin film!!
I know 58 year old people that run circles around mount everest... Im not to deep into ST lore but... arent Federatians more healthy and live longer? The new movies (kelvin timeline? man im confused with the lore timelines) is something i enjoy. I like when a character changes over a story arc when he gets confronted with the results of his decissions. With some characters it works that they are unflinching (maybe ruthless) but with others like kirk it makes sense.
Yes, it has been stated that the average age of a human in Star Trek by the 23rd/24th centuries in the Primary timeline is around 150 years. Dr. McCoy for an example is still alive by the time of Star Trek TNG at 137 and in beta canon sources is alive beyond the time of Star Trek Nemesis at over 154.
Kirk did become 'the pursued' in the Series 3 episode Wink of an Eye (and others?). By and large, though, he did the skirt pursuing, which was also the case with the Kelvin Timeline version.
id highly recommend the kelvin time line start trek series from idw. sure some of it is weird and one 'arc' shat on voyager for no good resign, though i dont think they did it on purpose they likely just didnt think though the implactions of the story. and ooh boy the beyond comics did some strange things with the borg. but as a whole the series is really good , even the barzar cross over with green latren. i unconditionally recommend the 5 issue spin of series star trek academy. it has one of perhaps three named vulcans that i dont loath with all my being. saddly the series died after 5 issues. through the charaters were carred over into the beyond comics before star trek beyond i used to say the kelivn time line was only good in the comics, but now i say its better with the comics
For my money, the best Kirk novel was the Kirk part of David George's Crucible trilogy. Each novel's narrative style kind of fit the character: McCoy's story was a tortured examination of self and motivations and loves; Spock's relentlessly linear and lying to itself about being emotionlessly logical, and Kirk's -- oh Jimmy! A series of time-loop adventures in whick Kirk continually joins forces with ... himself! "Musta been your lifelong ambition!"
Love your videos. Can't say more than that. Simply brilliant. Kirk in the movies is the kirk I fell in love with, as with the original crew. I grew up with TNG and the tos movies. And the movie kirk is the one I identify with the most. Also the only star trek book I've ever read was the return. 🤢Lol x
The upside to Shatner is that he is funny and entertaining from the audience's pov. Downside, he's got a weird inflated, pompous, narcissistic ego that can't be satisfied, which must make him as difficult to work with professionally as former Trek colleagues like George Takai consistently reported. He can't write, but that never stopped him from having a ghost writer crank out mediocre manuscripts and earn money because of Shatner's name on the cover. Well, we take the bad with the good. I sure wouldn't want to work with him if I were an actor, but he's fun to watch.
I've always had a difficult time getting into the Star Trek series and I'm not entirely sure why, Voyager held my interest the longest, but I always found Stargate more interesting and entertaining. But videos like these make me want to watch the original series to see the intricacies of the characters myself. I might try watching the Original Series soon alongside your videos. Here's hoping I can maintain my interest.
@@7club795 I don't know why I can't really get into Star Trek. It might be the "out manned, out gunned" desperate theme of Stargate that I like which is why Voyager was the most compelling Star Trek series for me so far (with the exception of the new movie trilogy).
@@KevinACarroll1996 I dont know if the out manned out gunned aspect of star gate actually holds any weight, a few humans with a fraction of their peoples resources consistently take down ancient empires and increasingly over powered enemies. They designed built launched and replaced a fleet of space war ships in less time than the entire might of the US navy and a sizable chunk of civilian contractors are able to produce a new class of incrementally advanced submarines! Theres zero reason whatsoever for this also, why is it we are fielding entire armies and armada, setting up outposts across multiple galaxies but its still a secret from the world??
@@DrewLSsix I think it's the initial underdog theme that gets me hooked for the later adventures. As you said, they build an entire space fleet very fast, but I overlook how unrealistic that is due to the sense of progress from Earth's first steps off world to becoming a major player in the galaxy. I don't know of many scifi properties that have that kind of progression (maybe that's because I have only seen bad scifi shows and movies).
I've never really seen much Hornblower in Kirk, despite what Rodenberry's outline might have suggested. Forrester's character isn't a ladies man, he's not particularly swashbuckling in attitude (although he's properly aggressive for his period) and he's really quite ruthless - for example I really can't see junior officer Kirk arranging a near-fatal accident for a bad captain.
Small bit of Trivia Rodenberry's Photo was used in the Star trek Enciclopidia under the name Captain Robert April(who was incharge of San Francisco Fleet Yards and the USS Enterprise being built there.) As for the Hornblower link, it has been done better in other SciFi one of the best is the Honor Harrington Series good books
@@StevenHouse1980 Not sure Harrington is really a good Hornblower analogue either, I think she's a bit too whiter than white as well. Perhaps the worst example of the Hornblower in Spaaace trope that doesn't really "get" Hornblower IMO is Nicholas Seafort in the novels by a chap called Feintuch.
I absolutely agree, the novels are bad, LOL. But as for the progression of the character in the JJ'verse Trek movies I don't see it. He states in Beyond he has been in command of the Enterprise a few years when the movie takes place. So he went from Cadet to Captain in the first movie and then within the course of five years he is being considered for an Admiral's position?! He states in Beyond he is bored and is trying to find purpose ... after five years as Captain?! This is NOT Kirk, lol.
Its a bit bold to say that a person is incapablenof feeling something. Especially temporarily. And this isn't Kirk, not TOS Kirk, they make that clear right away. TOS Kirk probably didn't have the crisis of confidence that Beyond Kirk did because he didnt lose his father at birth. Still, the prime Kirk did have his own internal crises. So its something that is certainly built into the character.
@@DrewLSsix You make a good point, Prime Kirk had his father when he was growing up, I had forgotten that. However I still feel they did a sloppy job of giving the character depth. He is a maverick in the first movie, fighting authority because he believe his way is best and he is rewarded in the end by a promotion from Cadet to Captain (which in itself is absolutely impossible and so f**king stupid I wanted to kill the writer when I saw that on screen. But they HAD to do that so he was in command of the Enterprise in future movies. It just shows terrible planning on their part). Then in 'Into Darkness' they put him up against an opponent equally as much of a maverick, equally disdainful of authority but smarter and better than Kirk and Kirk comes out the loser almost. Fast forward 4-5 years for Beyond and he is bored with his life, this isn't a temporary feeling, he has obviously been feeling this way a long time, he says so in the film. So why did he lose the love of exploring, the desire for command of his own ship in such a short period of time? He applies for a position as Admiral, something Prime Kirk didn't want but it was forced upon him. So we have two divergent characters here. One who lived to command and explore in Prime Kirk, and one who got what he wanted and then got bored with it in Kelvin Kirk. Can that be put solely on the fact one had a father and one didn't? I'm not entirely sure it can. I think they just wanted to spice Kirk up a bit, change the dynamic for their Trek to make it different from what had gone before.
I dont know why I like your star trek videos so much, I haven't ever seen anything star trek related for longer than a minute, and even then that was when the TV was in the control of someone else. I just like'em.
Chris Pine did fine, but it took the unique blend of over-acting and understated by Mr. Shatner to make James T. Kirk a standout icon. By anyone else, it would have been s generic hero, but he made Kirk become Kirk.
Isn't one of the reasons his character has a stutter because when they went to start recording an episode, the script was only partially complete and the actor was trying to remember his lines? That series had some quality issues.
m'kay, the idea of Lloyd Bridges as James Kirk is gut-wrenchingly hilarious 'specially since Shatner showed up playing a parody of Kirk as *his* kinda-sorta-replacement for the ending of Airplane's sequel Also, funny how Shatner's blurb doesn't mention the Tekwar video game. I guess there are some things even an ego that size has to admit as total crap. :)
Oh, come on! I enjoy the Shatnerverse. William Shatner understands Star Trek and the character of Kirk very well! Better than anyone else. And the 2009 Star Trek reboot was an abomination. We are expected to believe that a Starfleet cadet would be immediately promoted to captain of the Enterprise? Yeah, how about no. And there's the whole thing that the timeline was altered and NO ONE thinks to use time travel to change it back? BILLIONS of Vulcans died and everyone just shrugs their shoulders? Naw, dog.
There are only TWO Captain Kirks: William Shatner, the original, and Vic Mignogna, the closest approximation in appearance, gesture and personality. Everyone else is a joke, whether intentionally or not, or an insult.
With all the quirks and faults of William Shatners acting, I do genuinely love the guy and his portrayal of Kirk and other characters he has played. What would be unforgivable is that New trek will diminish this character if they resurrect kirk and have him being hectored by women like an old fool as they did with Plicard.
Aw, is your fragile ego under attack again? Its funny how people who assume they are superior are so rarely able to display any superior qualities lol.
@@DrewLSsix I would respect you more if you challenged my comment on kirk and Plicard, instead you judged me and my character like you actually know me.
you don't believe 58 y. o. William Shatner freeclimbing? how about that - 90 y. o. William Shatner wins World championships in horseriding and goes into space. How many people can do that? and depicting Kirk as the one who won't study in the academy in AOS is innacurate, since the original Kirk was serious-to-grim, that's why he was bullied by uppergraders, also was nicknamed stack of books with legs. "In his class you either think or sink".
the shatner verse books were not as bad as you make them out to be but they are far from what is considered literature. in fact no trek book book could be considered literature. all of trek in book, except of course for jj/kurtzman trek books, are good pulp fiction,( which they were meant to be)
Kirk is one of the worst handled characters in Sci-fi. He's become a parody of himself that leans into Internet Memes. Shatner's Kirk was a far better man than modern society seems willing to admit or accept. And I'd take Old Kirk over Old Picard any day.
Does, anyone note, the continuity error of, Captain Kirk in ohio, versus Tiberius Kirk, of the failed space colony, ruled by Kodos the cruel murderer, and, space, actor,? (Best, Kirk impression, I, can, do, coma!)
Very disappointing review without mention of how Eddie Murphy changed the public's view of Captain Kirk simply by fabricating and exaggerating in his comedy routine. Since 1983, the prevailing image of Kirk for the public at large who are not Star Trek fans is that of Eddie Murphy.
Gene Roddenberry I think in a way based Captain Kirk on his own persona as the fisticuff orientated Ladies Man swashbuckling his way from one woman to the next per episode Kirk is the quintessential stereotypical hero of a bygone era.. And asl he grows older he begins to suffer from the middle-aged syndrome are trying to relive Better Days he comes in conflict with his middle-aged self having to deal with fatherhood with a grown son whom he never connected with as well as his son's mother Carol Marcus whom has given Kirk the third degree I'm a lot of his Ladies Man l schwebel's that doesn't win him any brownie points by what his son David Markus referred to as being an overgrown boy scout. Moving right along to the Chris Pine era JJ Abrams rebooted Kelvin universe saga.The James t Kirk's character is fully back as the frat boy out-of-control clownish example adolescent antics returning to an exaggerated version of TOS traditional plot emerge to kirk's Persona. With Kirk going back to what he does best skirt-chasing the Galaxy. Until both Spock and Admiral Marcus rips ole Jimmy boy a new one because he disobeyed Starfleet regulation protocol against breaking non-involvement ignoring possible negative influence on primitive less evolved societies and lying on her official report about it. Kelvin Kirk soon matures and realizes the irresponsibility of his actions and the dangerous consequences that they may have.
My other channels-
Gaming Channel: th-cam.com/channels/4AQjWVhQBOoHlOrKn_SJqA.html
Second Channel: th-cam.com/channels/uRTWD6C2lqy-y-0HMwRoNQ.html
lol sidequest always thought that was a platform for games on the oculus quest
Rand was written off the show, she was forced out and essentially fired after being sexually assaulted by one of the execs/producers who she resisted . I dont believe she ever revealed who it was. Everyone knew about it at the time. The scene in the Motion Picture after the transporter accident, Kirk turns to Rand and says "It wasnt your fault, Rand"... since years ago women, because of what they wore or said, were the ones to be blamed for such sexual assaults. She never recovered from what happened in hollywood, she was essentially black listed.
"You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away!" That will always be my favorite Kirk quote, and IMHO encapsulates his character very well.
Yeah I always get chills when I watch that scene
That's what the Chris Pine version tried to do
Kirk climing El Capetan at that age could be put down to the Medical fitness of people in the Era being way better than in modern day. Hell look how old vs Medicaly fit Admiral McCoy was in TNG.
I guess it's knowing who wrote and directed the scene is what makes it come off as a bit weird for the character.
It's also odd, when you consider that growing old was one of the themes in the previous movies.
You know when you commented on a 58 year old Kirk climbing that impossible rock at his age well look at him now at 91 with a fuller schedule than most 30 and 40 year olds in real life. Never underestimate the Kirk.
It's funny you should mention William Shatner playing Kirk free climbing a cliff in Star Trek V. In the TV show Better Late Than Never he costarred with Henry Winkler, Terry Bradshaw and George Foreman. They traveled around to different countries kid of like a bucket list. In Japan they went to a shrine to overlook a valley with Mt. Fuji in the distance. There were about 1000 steps to get to the top. Guess who was the one to be able to do it without stopping? Shatner. George Foreman was the first to have to rest to get to the top. Anyway, was a great show and very funny.
And now he's nearly a 100 and has just been to space.... again..... but for real
"Shatner's unique line delivery" quite diplomatic 😁
Great video as always, I wanna see more of these Lore Evolution's stuff!
NOT...SURE......WHAT YOU'RE........REFERRING TO....
People hate on Shatners acting but honestly his portrayal of Kirk is the main reason Star Trek ever lasted past the 1960s. Don't bite the hand that feeds you :\
Man, the Shatnerverse novels were the BEST. I loved them a LOT from when I was a young kid. Still do.
I enjoyed them a lot as a kid too. I wonder if they hold up.
Absolutely loved this video. I actually didn't sit down and watch TOS end to end until 8 years ago or so. I had always enjoyed watching random episodes, but had never seen the series as a whole. Years of mockery had given me certain Kirk expectations. I was quite pleasantly surprised. Watching it I remember feeling all the tropes about Kirk were present, but had been greatly exaggerated and were not nearly as constant and over the top as I had been led to expect.
Here’s challenge:
LORE EVOLUTION: Gene Roddenberry’s vision of Star Trek
All you’d have to go off of is the first half of the original series’ first season, The Motion Picture and the first two seasons of The Next Generation.
That's Gene Dead'nburied.
The short of the Long will be: "Star Trek has evolved and grow best WITHOUT the input of Gene Roddenberry. Often reflecting the mindset of cultural sensibilities of the time, Star Trek has striving to be of that time. The current generation of Star Trek TV an Movies continues this but mostly could be easily accused of being 'too smart for its audience'. The subtleties of character development and arcs, thematics and general storytelling are easily lost on audiences who may know older episodes by heart but are frequently incapable of watching and comprehending anything new. Or is attacked for politics not connected to the show simply to argue. But if anything, in 20-30 years, this generation of Star Trek will be a time capsule of just how out of touch the audience is with Star Trek, forgetting it is entertainment and not bias confirmation."
I was kind of upset with Kirk just pulling the rug out from under Deckers feet as Captain. Star Fleet would make that decision , not Admiral Kirk. I know Admiral Kirk was given the Enterprise by Admiral Nogura, but Star Fleet would have notified Captain Decker.
Kirk in The Original Series was very nuanced. Shatner made very subtle yet important acting choices that made the character who he is. I would recommend listening to The Enterprise Incident podcast, because there's so much you've missed about Kirk in The Original Series.
Shatner's Kirk was my childhood hero : I shed a tear or two when I saw the Generations movie at the cinema.
👍
It's funny isn't it to think of those other actor's who were in line for the role of Captain Kirk it's just unthinkable to imagine any one other than William Shatner in the role he made it his own, and to think he said he very nearly didn't do it as he had some other thing he was down to do I really think the star's were aligned that day!
I'm a fan of much of the Kirk Trek books. Probably because I was born when the show came out and Kirk was my template for heroism. For decades he was considered the most popular hero worldwide- outshining Robin Hood, King Arthur and other legends. So, it's little doubt that the hero-worship goes pretty further than any other Captain in Enterprise history. Especially if you look at Kirk's achievements. in the Trek universe compared to others. Hell, what other captains have their own statue in their home town they are GOING to be born in? Pretty heady stuff.
A great analysis of the TRULY GALLANT Captain Kirk. Yeah Shatner's ego is a bit much, but I have my doubts anyone else could portray the ICONIC LEGENGDARY Kirk. It's the story ONLY HE CAN TELL!
The character is diminished by being coopted by an egoist with little interest in fleshing it out.
Havent seen VOY yet but kirk is still my favorite trek character. Love his cowboy vibe. Cool personality.
I especially love TOS kirk
TOS episode that really showed Kirk in a more complex light was The Conscience of the King. He's essentially a holocaust survivor. And he spends a lot of the episode seducing a woman - not because he's remotely interested in her, but just to get evidence against her father, who he believes is guilty of crimes against humanity. He was never more ruthless and manipulative than he was in this episode. Sidelining Decker to get the Enterprise back was nothing compared to some of the things he did in TOS.
Mitchell was just probably trolling Kirk. He knew how his old buddy loved his T .
A 58 year old can free climb El cap and probably do. Free climbing does not mean what you think it means and there are less difficult routes.
I have always had a huge soft spot for TOS Kirk. I also love the 80's films, and/but they definitely have a seasoning on them that takes the original flavor of kirk and adds a lot of cultural context and a lot of Bill. TOS kirk is a little more "pure" in a way because it is really Bill Shatner playing a part, whereas later iterations stack onto and overpower that original character.
Love these videos bunches!
I have no problem believing that an aging Kirk could climb the mountain. His desire to hug the mountain--to envelop that mountain--would be enough to overcome any physical frailties.
Kirk wasn't much of a ladies man. He was known at the academy for always having his nose in a book and was in a long term relationship. At least two of the women he was with, Elaan of Troyius being one, it was dub!con with Kirk being unable to consent.
A lot of casual Trek fans think of Kirk as some kind of warmonger who loves battle. I guess this is on display in episodes like Errand of Mercy, where Kirk and Commander Kor are basically arguing for their right to have an interstellar war (something he is embarrassed about by the end of the episode). But it's a misconception, as Kirk routinely looks for peaceful ways out of conflicts.
We love the kirk novels. If someone can write him out of StarTrek then Hurray for him for writing himself back in.
Kirk : “a fist fighting, syllable staggering ladies man”, what a synopsis, bravo Mr Coleman, bravo!
That William Shatner fanfic is amazing
Younger Kirk is a brat! But... that is quite according to how kirk describes his younger self and how young Kirk appears in the novels..
Personally I think Captain kirk was the best captain, and I will always respect Shatner's role in forging that: I would not hace liked to have been working with the man...
Strange New Worlds is about Pike not Kirk as you implied at the videos end
Such a good channel thanks!
2:26 Actually not true. Lord offered to take if he got 50 percent of the show's profits! They turned HIM down. Also 5:50 is wrong. In the second pilot Where No Man Has Gone Before, Gary Mitchell makes fun of Kirk for being too dedicated to school work at the Academy, aiming a "little blonde technician" at him to make him lighten up.
For a good Kirk book (that is not written by Shatner) I highly recommend picking up the Autobiography of James T Kirk. This is a fictional autobiography where Kirk writes about his life from a kid, all the way too Star Trek 6. It is a must read for all Trek and Kirk fans.
I always thought it was a great idea but assumed it wouldn’t be any good.
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Also listen to Periphery.
So here's the thing people always forget about what was actually very decent writing for the reboot. Remember Shatner's dad dies too early, he's supposed to be around not dead before Kirks born. So now you have Kirk who had a dad that cared for him and moulded him into a great role model and captain not having any of that. It was brilliant in my opinion because he's still the Kirk we know (cheats in Kobiyashi) but instead of maybe learning quicker he rebels. He is a rebel but without an authority figure its been dialed up to 11. So with the 2nd and 3rd installment he's still trying to curtail that rebellion but it doesn't work out like that so he has to learn things the hard way which is why I enjoyed Pine's Kirk. He had to learn quick and learn fast and made some whopper mistakes along the way. Film & TOS Kirk made some mistakes but he was read for Starfleet etc. I think they did a really good job with him. I may not have enjoyed the reboots but they did the characters well.
That's a very good observation :)
@@RowanJColeman
Thank you =)
Also I saw a few comments on ST 2009 when it released that he wasn't the bar fight type. Hey remember Picard? Remember how he got stabbed in a fight he started? Bullshit lol.
You make some excellent points here. But I am with you, I didn't enjoy the reboot movies, mostly because they were to focused on CGI effects and action over character and solid thought provoking stories. But the difference of Kirk having a dad in one universe and not in the other would have an effect, which is why Pike becomes his surrogate father. However my biggest gripe is that because they insisted on telling Kirk's story from before he joined Starfleet they left themselves with no other way to get him into command of the Enterprise for the next movies other than promoting a Cadet to Captain. It looked ridiculous on screen and makes no sense what so ever and shows the lack of real planning that went into this ... or the fact they simply didn't care and rammed the stupidity through figuring no one would care, lol.
No more JJ Trek. No more. Please.
A note about Kelvin Kirk, is that he IS a slightly different version of kirk because of his upbringing - so some of his character flaws could be magnified - perhaps that's why Kelvin Kirk needed a strong smackdown in ST ID, which is my fave Kelvin film!!
I know 58 year old people that run circles around mount everest... Im not to deep into ST lore but... arent Federatians more healthy and live longer?
The new movies (kelvin timeline? man im confused with the lore timelines) is something i enjoy. I like when a character changes over a story arc when he gets confronted with the results of his decissions.
With some characters it works that they are unflinching (maybe ruthless) but with others like kirk it makes sense.
Yes, it has been stated that the average age of a human in Star Trek by the 23rd/24th centuries in the Primary timeline is around 150 years. Dr. McCoy for an example is still alive by the time of Star Trek TNG at 137 and in beta canon sources is alive beyond the time of Star Trek Nemesis at over 154.
That blurb from the back of the Shatnerverse novels is the most egregious bit of ego autofellatio I've ever heard
I would love it if you did a lore evolution video on Spock!
U should do Data lore.
I will show myself out
Kirk did become 'the pursued' in the Series 3 episode Wink of an Eye (and others?). By and large, though, he did the skirt pursuing, which was also the case with the Kelvin Timeline version.
id highly recommend the kelvin time line start trek series from idw. sure some of it is weird and one 'arc' shat on voyager for no good resign, though i dont think they did it on purpose they likely just didnt think though the implactions of the story. and ooh boy the beyond comics did some strange things with the borg. but as a whole the series is really good , even the barzar cross over with green latren. i unconditionally recommend the 5 issue spin of series star trek academy. it has one of perhaps three named vulcans that i dont loath with all my being. saddly the series died after 5 issues. through the charaters were carred over into the beyond comics
before star trek beyond i used to say the kelivn time line was only good in the comics, but now i say its better with the comics
Will you do Dr. Who: Lore Evolution?
To do that, he would need to mention the classic show, which he doesn't seem to be familiar with.
I have a Lore Evolution planned on The Daleks.
@@Blartyboy I've actually become more familiar with Classic Who recently :)
@@RowanJColeman Well then, by all means, exterminate!
A Whovolution, if you will.
He wants to *make love* to the mountain
He wants to shag that guy from Game of Thrones?
Let the mountain come for Captain Kirk.
Just subbed. Great content.
Just asked myself why I am not subscribed to this channel, I literally watch every video and all of the old videos. So.... subscribed!
For my money, the best Kirk novel was the Kirk part of David George's Crucible trilogy. Each novel's narrative style kind of fit the character: McCoy's story was a tortured examination of self and motivations and loves; Spock's relentlessly linear and lying to itself about being emotionlessly logical, and Kirk's -- oh Jimmy! A series of time-loop adventures in whick Kirk continually joins forces with ... himself! "Musta been your lifelong ambition!"
I’d love to see a lore evolution on Leonard McCoy.
YES! THANK YOU
I would take anything William Shatner writes 365/24/7 over the Star Garbage from Kurtzman & Co.!!!
Love your videos. Can't say more than that. Simply brilliant. Kirk in the movies is the kirk I fell in love with, as with the original crew. I grew up with TNG and the tos movies. And the movie kirk is the one I identify with the most. Also the only star trek book I've ever read was the return. 🤢Lol x
I read the Return. Seemed forgettable. Haven’t read a trek book since.
The upside to Shatner is that he is funny and entertaining from the audience's pov. Downside, he's got a weird inflated, pompous, narcissistic ego that can't be satisfied, which must make him as difficult to work with professionally as former Trek colleagues like George Takai consistently reported. He can't write, but that never stopped him from having a ghost writer crank out mediocre manuscripts and earn money because of Shatner's name on the cover. Well, we take the bad with the good. I sure wouldn't want to work with him if I were an actor, but he's fun to watch.
This is high quality good stuff! 👍🏻👍🏻☠️🏴
I've always had a difficult time getting into the Star Trek series and I'm not entirely sure why, Voyager held my interest the longest, but I always found Stargate more interesting and entertaining. But videos like these make me want to watch the original series to see the intricacies of the characters myself. I might try watching the Original Series soon alongside your videos. Here's hoping I can maintain my interest.
I'm planning on some in depth mini-documentary style Retrospectives in the near future. Perhaps those will peak your interest too :)
I love Star Trek, but I really love Stargate.
@@7club795 I don't know why I can't really get into Star Trek. It might be the "out manned, out gunned" desperate theme of Stargate that I like which is why Voyager was the most compelling Star Trek series for me so far (with the exception of the new movie trilogy).
@@KevinACarroll1996 I dont know if the out manned out gunned aspect of star gate actually holds any weight, a few humans with a fraction of their peoples resources consistently take down ancient empires and increasingly over powered enemies.
They designed built launched and replaced a fleet of space war ships in less time than the entire might of the US navy and a sizable chunk of civilian contractors are able to produce a new class of incrementally advanced submarines!
Theres zero reason whatsoever for this also, why is it we are fielding entire armies and armada, setting up outposts across multiple galaxies but its still a secret from the world??
@@DrewLSsix I think it's the initial underdog theme that gets me hooked for the later adventures. As you said, they build an entire space fleet very fast, but I overlook how unrealistic that is due to the sense of progress from Earth's first steps off world to becoming a major player in the galaxy. I don't know of many scifi properties that have that kind of progression (maybe that's because I have only seen bad scifi shows and movies).
Rowan should be teaching media studies at a university somewhere!
Dude, how dare you cast disparaging remarks about the Shatnerverse! No one disrespects the Shat! (JK). Love your vids.
I've never really seen much Hornblower in Kirk, despite what Rodenberry's outline might have suggested. Forrester's character isn't a ladies man, he's not particularly swashbuckling in attitude (although he's properly aggressive for his period) and he's really quite ruthless - for example I really can't see junior officer Kirk arranging a near-fatal accident for a bad captain.
Small bit of Trivia Rodenberry's Photo was used in the Star trek Enciclopidia under the name Captain Robert April(who was incharge of San Francisco Fleet Yards and the USS Enterprise being built there.) As for the Hornblower link, it has been done better in other SciFi one of the best is the Honor Harrington Series good books
@@StevenHouse1980 Not sure Harrington is really a good Hornblower analogue either, I think she's a bit too whiter than white as well.
Perhaps the worst example of the Hornblower in Spaaace trope that doesn't really "get" Hornblower IMO is Nicholas Seafort in the novels by a chap called Feintuch.
Shatner knew Kirk inside and out and said he never watched Star trek and TNG Deepspace9 Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery,Picard, Strange new worlds.
Broo, please do the entire crew, especially Bones😍
Great. A little on the scholarly side given my baser needs at the moment but great. New here; Liked and subscribed.
I absolutely agree, the novels are bad, LOL. But as for the progression of the character in the JJ'verse Trek movies I don't see it. He states in Beyond he has been in command of the Enterprise a few years when the movie takes place. So he went from Cadet to Captain in the first movie and then within the course of five years he is being considered for an Admiral's position?! He states in Beyond he is bored and is trying to find purpose ... after five years as Captain?! This is NOT Kirk, lol.
Its a bit bold to say that a person is incapablenof feeling something. Especially temporarily.
And this isn't Kirk, not TOS Kirk, they make that clear right away. TOS Kirk probably didn't have the crisis of confidence that Beyond Kirk did because he didnt lose his father at birth. Still, the prime Kirk did have his own internal crises. So its something that is certainly built into the character.
@@DrewLSsix You make a good point, Prime Kirk had his father when he was growing up, I had forgotten that. However I still feel they did a sloppy job of giving the character depth. He is a maverick in the first movie, fighting authority because he believe his way is best and he is rewarded in the end by a promotion from Cadet to Captain (which in itself is absolutely impossible and so f**king stupid I wanted to kill the writer when I saw that on screen. But they HAD to do that so he was in command of the Enterprise in future movies. It just shows terrible planning on their part).
Then in 'Into Darkness' they put him up against an opponent equally as much of a maverick, equally disdainful of authority but smarter and better than Kirk and Kirk comes out the loser almost. Fast forward 4-5 years for Beyond and he is bored with his life, this isn't a temporary feeling, he has obviously been feeling this way a long time, he says so in the film. So why did he lose the love of exploring, the desire for command of his own ship in such a short period of time? He applies for a position as Admiral, something Prime Kirk didn't want but it was forced upon him. So we have two divergent characters here. One who lived to command and explore in Prime Kirk, and one who got what he wanted and then got bored with it in Kelvin Kirk. Can that be put solely on the fact one had a father and one didn't? I'm not entirely sure it can. I think they just wanted to spice Kirk up a bit, change the dynamic for their Trek to make it different from what had gone before.
I love this channel. I just wish some of these videos were like na hour or 2 long.
Well my TOS Retrospective was 50 minutes long and my TNG Retrospective will probably be about 90 minutes haha
@@RowanJColeman I do love the TOS retrospective. But that 90 minute TNG retrospective sounds super dope!
So what about the animated series? They did get Shatner back to voice Kirk...
Its cool that Shatner got to write his own characters fan fiction, lol that rules
Imagine if they got Chris Pine to cameo as an older prime universe Kirk in some sort of flash-forward episode on one of the shows.
Shatnerverse is GOOD
You should do one for Pike, especially now with SNW on the horizon!
That's actually a great idea. But I'll wait until Strange New Worlds comes out :)
@@RowanJColeman I can't wait to see how they expand on his story!
Any chance you'll do a video on Legend of the Galactic Heroes (1988)?
Is still like to know HOW Shatner got the role. Did he audition? Was he just given it?
I dont know why I like your star trek videos so much, I haven't ever seen anything star trek related for longer than a minute, and even then that was when the TV was in the control of someone else. I just like'em.
I'm planning on some in depth mini-documentary style Retrospectives in the near future to max out your Trek video enjoyment :)
I actually enjoy the Shatnerverse novels. Captains Peril, blood and Glory I feel are good. my favourite would be Avenger.
When I see Kirk's "romantic" interludes the word panspermia comes to mind.
Chris Pine did fine, but it took the unique blend of over-acting and understated by Mr. Shatner to make James T. Kirk a standout icon.
By anyone else, it would have been s generic hero, but he made Kirk become Kirk.
Isn't one of the reasons his character has a stutter because when they went to start recording an episode, the script was only partially complete and the actor was trying to remember his lines? That series had some quality issues.
6:30 Cumberbatch was an excellent villain, but no Khan. They should’ve made him a new villain.
Kirk is Star Trek. I invite traditional Star Trek fans to enjoy a completely free novel, just Google Star Trek Lost Destiny.
m'kay, the idea of Lloyd Bridges as James Kirk is gut-wrenchingly hilarious
'specially since Shatner showed up playing a parody of Kirk as *his* kinda-sorta-replacement for the ending of Airplane's sequel
Also, funny how Shatner's blurb doesn't mention the Tekwar video game. I guess there are some things even an ego that size has to admit as total crap. :)
How about an evolution video focused on the Enterprise? I mean the Enterprise is a character.
Oh, come on! I enjoy the Shatnerverse. William Shatner understands Star Trek and the character of Kirk very well! Better than anyone else. And the 2009 Star Trek reboot was an abomination. We are expected to believe that a Starfleet cadet would be immediately promoted to captain of the Enterprise? Yeah, how about no. And there's the whole thing that the timeline was altered and NO ONE thinks to use time travel to change it back? BILLIONS of Vulcans died and everyone just shrugs their shoulders? Naw, dog.
That was why Pike was replaced? I thought it was because people weren't too interested in Pike.
I'm sure this will be buried an unseen, but do you think Into Darkness would be considered as bad if it didnt' have TWoK to be compared against?
Bill Shatner is the oldest man ever to go into space
There are only TWO Captain Kirks: William Shatner, the original, and Vic Mignogna, the closest approximation in appearance, gesture and personality. Everyone else is a joke, whether intentionally or not, or an insult.
The ashes of Eden was a good book
Er. research? Lloyd Bridges was famous for _Sea Hunt._
With all the quirks and faults of William Shatners acting, I do genuinely love the guy and his portrayal of Kirk and other characters he has played. What would be unforgivable is that New trek will diminish this character if they resurrect kirk and have him being hectored by women like an old fool as they did with Plicard.
Aw, is your fragile ego under attack again? Its funny how people who assume they are superior are so rarely able to display any superior qualities lol.
@@DrewLSsix I would respect you more if you challenged my comment on kirk and Plicard, instead you judged me and my character like you actually know me.
you don't believe 58 y. o. William Shatner freeclimbing? how about that - 90 y. o. William Shatner wins World championships in horseriding and goes into space. How many people can do that?
and depicting Kirk as the one who won't study in the academy in AOS is innacurate, since the original Kirk was serious-to-grim, that's why he was bullied by uppergraders, also was nicknamed stack of books with legs. "In his class you either think or sink".
Captain Kirk is the og og
the shatner verse books were not as bad as you make them out to be but they are far from what is considered literature. in fact no trek book book could be considered literature. all of trek in book, except of course for jj/kurtzman trek books, are good pulp fiction,( which they were meant to be)
Highlander TV show and movies anime what about
James T. Kirk por William Shatner, Cemil Şahbaz, Jim Carrey, James Cawley, Brian Gross, Vic Mignogna, Evan Stone, Chris Pine, etc
Kirk is one of the worst handled characters in Sci-fi.
He's become a parody of himself that leans into Internet Memes.
Shatner's Kirk was a far better man than modern society seems willing to admit or accept.
And I'd take Old Kirk over Old Picard any day.
Does, anyone note, the continuity error of, Captain Kirk in ohio, versus Tiberius Kirk, of the failed space colony, ruled by Kodos the cruel murderer, and, space, actor,?
(Best, Kirk impression, I, can, do, coma!)
Shatner Directed that Film and wile yes he did do some Rock climeing. he was not high enugh pull a Tom Cruse in MI2.
Got to remember though that in the 23rd century, Humans live till 150, so 58 is young. Bit like a 35 year old doing El Capitan today
Is tek Wars any good?
6:00 this is the best looking, and worst written star trek movies second only to star trek 5. Time travel is a lame writers crutch.
Very disappointing review without mention of how Eddie Murphy changed the public's view of Captain Kirk simply by fabricating and exaggerating in his comedy routine. Since 1983, the prevailing image of Kirk for the public at large who are not Star Trek fans is that of Eddie Murphy.
no its not
@@peanut1001x Very easy for you to say so without adressing Eddie Murphy's iconic 1983 performance. Have you seen it?
I loved Bill Shatner. But for some reason, I just can't stand Chris Pine as Kirk.
But but, the Kelvin timeline is crap!
Gene Roddenberry I think in a way based Captain Kirk on his own persona as the fisticuff orientated Ladies Man swashbuckling his way from one woman to the next per episode Kirk is the quintessential stereotypical hero of a bygone era..
And asl he grows older he begins to suffer from the middle-aged syndrome are trying to relive Better Days he comes in conflict with his middle-aged self having to deal with fatherhood with a grown son whom he never connected with as well as his son's mother Carol Marcus whom has given Kirk the third degree I'm a lot of his Ladies Man l schwebel's that doesn't win him any brownie points by what his son David Markus referred to as being an overgrown boy scout.
Moving right along to the Chris Pine era JJ Abrams rebooted Kelvin universe saga.The James t Kirk's character is fully back as the frat boy out-of-control clownish example adolescent antics returning to an exaggerated version of TOS traditional plot emerge to kirk's Persona. With Kirk going back to what he does best skirt-chasing the Galaxy. Until both Spock and Admiral Marcus rips ole Jimmy boy a new one because he disobeyed Starfleet regulation protocol against breaking non-involvement ignoring possible negative influence on primitive less evolved societies and lying on her official report about it. Kelvin Kirk soon matures and realizes the irresponsibility of his actions and the dangerous consequences that they may have.