I'm so glad that you added Tom Hardy to the list. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for playing Shinzon. For someone as young as he was to give that kind of performance, it's clear that he's got a lot of talent. It was a hell of a performance on his part and unlike that idiot of a director, he actually prepared for it! I'm happy that he has gotten the recognition that he deserves thru the years. He's more than earned it.
He was fan-fucking-tastic. Love him in this movie. Didn't hate the overall thing, definitely feel it gets a bad rap. And compared to some of the junk we're getting these days, it's high art.
@@powerbadpowerbad It's whole plot of a "fountain of youth planet" is plain stupid along with its execution. Along with the fact that it was a pure cash-grab after First Contact. Also, Johnathan Frakes was having too much fun with the cast to take the multi-million-dollar budget seriously. AND it was written by Michael Pillar who just because he wrote for the series-- didn't mean it would work cinematically. Hence, Insurrection as a movie and as Star Trek lore is a hot load of underwhelming, dumb, boring, sleezy garbage.
Picard: "He must not be allowed to use that weapon. All other concerns are secondary... You understand me.." Somber but dutiful looks among senior officers. Riker: "Yes, sir." Picard on the PA:"All hands, Battle Stations!! " That rocked to no end.
And as I recall, right about then is when Picard puts his desire to make it personal and take on Chinzon on himself instead of self a security team or Data above everything else. This is the decision that killed Data. If stopping the Thaleron weapon was so obviously important, then why did Picard immediately thereafter allow his personal desires to dictate the actions that would decide the entire future of the Enterprise, Earth, and the entire Federation?
I’ve never understood all the hate this film has received over the years. I’ve always enjoyed it and find it to be just a really fun ST romp. To this day, I LOVE the space battle with the Scimitar. It’s not a perfect ST movie, but I’ve always had a warm place in my heart for this movie. Plus, it has a wonderful soundtrack. Thanks for reminding us of all the reasons to appreciate this part of Star Trek lore.
Obviously opinions are influenced by expectations. If I buy a book just because it has a nice cover and never read it, I will not care if the content is crap. If you went to this movie hoping for a "fun romp", then you got your money's worth. But the Star Trek fans wanted to see a Star Trek movie. "Nemesis" was advertised as a Star Trek movie. Obviously those people will be disappointed with this movie.
There's a deleted scene where Worf expresses his dislike of having to work with Romulans because "they have no honor." Then in the scene, which is included in the movie, when the Remans board the Enterprise, Worf says to Riker, "Commander. The Romulans fought with honor!" I think it would have been better to have the deleted scene in the movie because it makes Worf's realization more impactful.
That would only really be good for non or mild trek fans cause trek fans, especially TNG fans, know how much Worf LOATHES Romulans which is of course due to the Khitomer massacre and how his pops was done dirty.
The deleted scene with Worf pays off his TNG arc since he chose to let a romulan die rather than help in the show. The deleted scene was major character development for the son of Mogh.
I never hated Nemesis to begin with. The problem I had with it is Baird wasn’t a Trek fan, and did nothing to endear himself to the cast who knew their characters and had already done movies. Instead of working with them, he decided to do his own thing.
It sounds like he didn't ask for or accept help. Not sure if that's because of or despite 5 of the regular cast members having Star Trek directing experience at that point
Those points about Baird and the deleted scenes are directly related. Because he wasn't familiar with Star Trek, he deleted a bunch of scenes without understanding the value they added from the point of view of the fans. Screenwriter John Logan obviously understood when he wrote those scenes.
I honestly don't think this was supposed to be an ending. I think they intended to make more movies after this but it tanked and Trek was starting to dwindle even on TV at the time. I think people were starting to get Trek fatigue by this point.
I don’t blame Baird, although he should have made an effort to actually learn the universe, I blame the studio for choosing him as a director. Star Trek is a franchise that requires those involved to understand and appreciate the universe.
Well, I have to push back on point 5. I think it's unfair to Insurrection. Insurrection is indeed not as action packed and high stakes as Nemesis, but that is excactly the beauty of it. It slows down the pace and shows a planet with beautiful nature with regular people who are facing a treat to their way of life caused by other people's short-sightedness. That to me is a great example of a theme that Star Trek always talks about. That theme makes it great scifi to me, instead of it being a more "standard action movie with a little touch of Trek". I think that in that way, Insurrection stands out more than Nemesis compared to other non-Trek (action) movies. I'm not surprised that Marina Sirtis likes action over a slow movie. That seems to fit her personality. But I've always kind of liked slow film and tv. Real life is hard enough, and a film like Insurrection really helps me to take my mind of busy daily life while also being a typical Trek movie with a relevant social topic. And there is enough action in it to drive the plot forward. I think it Insurrection actually has a better balance between story and action than many other modern (Trek) movies. And Insurrection has great music too...
The good thing about Insurrection is that after 13 movies, it is still the only one that actually feels like the TV series, that is exactly what an episode of TNG was like. I understand that is why some people dislike it because it could have been a great one-hour episode rather than a mediocre two-hour movie. But if I ever want to show someone what the TV series was like< is show them Insurrection
@@Michael-bk5nz That is usually what people criticise about it. Apparently, a movie is not allowed to be "just like the TV series". And to some degree, I get it: If you have a much bigger budget than "Best of Both Worlds" - MUCH bigger - the result should also be more impressive. But if we ignore that, "Insurrection" was by far the best TNG-movie.
When within the first 15 minutes, there's a broadway sing-a-long in order to "distract" an android whose brain functions billions of times faster than the other characters.. it was hard to take it seriously at all from that point.
Unlike many who disliked Star Trek Nemesis, I liked it immensely because of the famous score at the beginning also during the movie where all the members of the Romulan Imperial Senate, gathered in their rotunda, are murdered by a radiation that turns them into rock. The other scene I liked was the Enterprise-E showdown against Shizon's ship the Scimitar and when Picard orders the Enterprise to ram the Scimitar ship it's a nice cinematic scene that reminds me a lot the movie Generation in the scene where the Enterprise-D crashed into Veridian III. I also liked the scene in which the Romulans’ commander Donatra assists Picard to confront Shinzon and a friendship is formed between Donatra and Picard.
@@CallumDMD You shouldn't need to be a woman to understand why gratuitous sexual assault of female characters is a harmful trope, or to notice that it serves no meaningful purpose whatsoever in the plot except as a random unnecessary act of evil to make the villains less likeable.
I really liked the battle scene between the Enterprise and the Scimitar. I thought it was well paced and the visuals were very good. To be honest it really is the only reason I would watch the movie again.
I absolutely remember sitting in the theater and being blown away with how BIG the film was (especially compared to Insurrection!) I actually enjoyed the film and felt it was the TNG version of TWOK... not a perfect film by any stretch of the imagination, but definitely had me on the edge of my set when the Enterprise RAMMED the Scimitar... delivering on Worf's line from First Contact!!!! (RAMMING SPEED!)
I see it more or less on the same level as ST 3. It is far away from being the best or the worst Trek but alright. I think the violation scene was distatefull but it was so much more rewarding when she later used her telepatic powers against him. I really hope they will get around to put the scenes that were cut back into the film.
The movie was hurt by the attempt to emphasize on the action and by cutting out the character moments (thankfully, TH-cam edits of them deleted scenes exist now)
Yeah, the director may have been trying to give you HIS version of what a Star Trek movie should have been but with a franchise this old, you don't disregard the fans and what they love. Sure, action (especially on a big screen) is great, but many fans come for the characters that they've loved for years, and he didn't seem to get that.
I can guess that they didn’t fire him because it’s too difficult to guess the final product during production and too costly to start over with another director. The part I don’t understand is why Hollywood studios regularly hire people in Producer and Director roles that have no personal interest in the IP/lore for non-reboot projects.
I think it comes down to the one thing that determines all decisions in Hollywood. Money. Paramount were under contract to give Baird the directors chair. It would have cost Paramount dearly to break the contract. So they gave him a movie they didn't care about.
I think they were far too kind in this video about the Director. Although the producers have blame too, but Stuart Baird spent more time as a film editor than a director. His Oscar nomination was for editing in Gorillas in the Mist. The TNG movie franchise has always suffered from the writing and budgeting. We all remember reused bird of prey explosion from Generations. First Contact was supposed to have an even more grand battle. We don’t speak of insurrection. Thank god ST:Picard got it right for a true send off.
"Thank god ST:Picard got it right for a true send off." Could you imagine writing that 2 years ago? Not that I ever disliked Picard, but damn that last season was good.
@@Rhewin Season 3 needed the first two to set it up. They could have used more polish (a limitation of the scope of their ideas vs. the length of the season), but I like what they were trying to do. For the most part it worked. I think season 1 needed about double the episodes to flesh out all the things it was juggling, but it was still ok. And season 2, the middle was to discordant, they didn't flow from one episode to the next (see Rios going from an ICE prisoner to saying how much he loves this time). But I think if they had gone straight into season 1 with the 'member-berries, it would have felt cheap. Just cashing in on nostalgia. Where as by waiting to the third season, it feels like they're closing two books at once, so it's more satisfying.
@@cryofpaine I was fine with it for the most part, but it wasn’t a conclusion to TNG. That’s what I was commenting on. It was definitely doing it’s own thing unlike S3 which is basically a direct sequel. I thought S1 actually told an interesting story, though it was unnecessarily edgy half of the time. I still was glad to have watched it. I agree with everything you said on S2. Solid start and finish. Really flimsy middle.
@@cryofpaine I did lose my patience with episode 3 of season 3 - it crammed too much in and I found it lost something in accelerating - for example, when Worf and Raffi are interrogating that one guy - it went stereotype in a cheap way. I turned it off and watched a couple summary reviews for the next 2 episodes to learn what was going on. I'll go back someday and watch those eventually. Maybe.
Ha, Brie4's head on a stand. ! Very clever. I like the bit about the Bassen Rift battle, there was supposed to be more ships, but budget cuts meant only the Enterprise was there - the video cuts after the graphic begins listing the ships, stopping after only Enterprise is listed, then Troi looks shocked. Very good, again. And I see a little NX next to the photo frame when Voyager's crew gathers. Nemesis was a fantastic film. Hardy was excellent and should have ignored the internet armchair critics. The run time was surprisingly short, and the studio cut the film to get it shorter - on purpose. This makes no sense. Releasing the film at the same time as other big films is just negligent. I think the studio ruined the film, and I think it was on purpose. I do want to see a full directors cut.
I did ask Brie to refer to herself as Brie-4 if she felt like doing the joke. Either she forgot or didn't think it was that funny. Glad you got it though 😂
20 years already? well.. this makes me feel old lol. Stil remeber watching the movie in the cinema like it was yesterday and honestly, i quite liked it. Obvioulsy it´s not a masterpiece but just like Star Wars Episode I (in my opinion), Nemesis was and is enjoyable and in the end.. All Good Things must come to an end. ps.: Data singing "Blue Skies", in honor of their conjugation, makes it already worth it ☺
I also grew up loving it. I was a young teen when it came out, having grown up my entire life watching Star Trek. My father took me to see it, and I almost never got to see him. I was also a huge Romulan fan. So, it really hit many of the right notes for me for personal and lore reasons.
I rewatched this 2 weeks ago ironically. It wasn't as bad as I remember. It's certainly very flat and dull in parts , but the space battle is quite good. And as Ms Sirtis said.....at least its not Insurrection 😢
I never hated this movie. Sure the plot could be better, but it was fun. That whole sequence with Donatria realizing how insane Shinzon is and getting everyone to turn on him was great character work. And the battle itself against the Scimitar was perfect, one of the best spacebattles I ever saw.
I am a long time star trek fan and I didn't hate Nemesis. It made me want a sequel at the time which we didn't really get till season 3 of picard which was like a movie as a whole and was good
Sorry, but what we got with Nemesis was bad with the exception of a few concepts and Goldsmith's score. Heck, Goldsmith's score for Star Trek V is the best part of that film as well. I agree with the cast that Baird was the problem. The Director is the one ultimately responsible for the creative vision for the film. Look at all the cut scenes. Baird left all of the character-centric scenes out of the film. Instead of a Star Trek film, we got Baird's interpretation of Hollywood schlock. Oh, here's a Hot Take: Marsters would've been a better Shinzon.
The only thing I ever truly hated about this movie was the fact that Data dies. As a film, I think it’s good overall. After watching Picard season one, I went back and watched this movie again and I really realized how beside himself Picard is after Data’s death. It really affected me in such a different way than any other time watching the movie and even though season one of Picard isn’t widely loved, it does pick up on this idea of Data’s death changing and haunting Picard for years after.
I'm in the same camp. Sad ending, yes. But, I really don't see why this particular film is so loathed and ridiculed by Trek fans. It's really no less entertaining than any of the other TNG films. It's a solid film. Great characterization, too.
I can say, I love this movie when it came out and love it even more now. I love all of the movies. Also, Tom Hardy and Ron Perlman were BOTH amazing in their parts. Or did people forget he too was in it? Shinzon's Viceroy.....
To me, Insurectio wasn't as good as Nemesis. From what had been said, The Higher ups (Moonves) wanted the Trek Movies finished. He manipulated the Showrunners to higher Baird over a few others who had Star Trek experience (Frakes)!
Marina Sirtis is too hard on Insurrection. Maybe because that's when she noticed her boobs had started to firm up (not that we care about that in this day age).
I never really hated Nemeisis, I was just very disappointed. It had this massive potential with the Romulan story but a bunch of things spoiled it. The B4 plot was dumb The sex scene was cringey The romulans were relegated to minor characters
And now with the ended series finale of Picard, we may have a possible updated reason for Shinzon's illness: the then unknown Borganic tech either made the Romulan tech incompatible or neutralized it [or some other side effect].
Nemesis may not be the greatest TNG outing but I will defend this movie to my last breath. It didn't deserve the hate it got. It balanced the feeling of a long episode with fun, cinema-style action really well imho. (Except B4. I don't talk about B4)
I’ll add one: this movie (and Generations) play into the themes sometimes explored in TNG of Picard’s mixed feelings about family and legacy that reach a conclusion of sorts in this season of Picard.
I saw this movie the day it came out in theaters and fell in love with it. I always thought it was a really good movie. I just wish people had given it more love, and attention at the time, because it was actually really good.
Thank you for this video. Nemesis will always hold a special place in my memory. It wasn't great, but it wasn't awful either. I excitedly read the novelization as soon as it came out. I watched it at the theater on opening weekend. A friend gave me the Shinzon action figure because she knew I was so excited about the movie. Despite its flaws, I appreciated the portrayal of Picard and Data. You could really see how far Data came from the early days of Next Generation. He had grown and matured and then gave his life to save his friends, the most human thing a person can do. It was a fitting end to an incredible character. Meanwhile, I loved how Picard took B4 in, almost like the child he never had. Data had given up his life, but here was new life and Picard was going to do right by him. It broke my heard when they completely discarded B4 at the beginning of Picard. They undid the really neat thing they had set up. Regardless, once again, thanks for the video.
some compelling reasons. The box office one should be #1...cause you know Paramount did that on purpose to wash their hands of the franchise. No studio in the right mind would go up against LotR or even the lion king. I'd argue that w/o Nemesis, no Picard. and we wouldn't have gotten that awesome Season 3 and beautiful finale for both Picard and TNG crew.
Nemesis is not the reason we got Picard, it’s the reason we had to wait 20 years for it. We got S3 in spite of Nemesis, not because of it. What little we know of the movie they planned to make after Nemesis indicates we would’ve had a fitting send-off to not only the TNG crew but DS9 and Voyager over a decade ago.
@@mmcfacialhair I see what you're saying, but I would take Picard S3 over a movie, around that time period. The movie would've prob been better than Nemesis, but the 10 eps we got of Picard S3 was one hell of a send off. and the time lapse might've be beneficial overall, opposed to a immediate follow up in Nemesis.
but in my mind its better than star trek insurrection...and also they probably should have made the follow up to nemesis that they were talking about... it probably would have done this movie better.. at least in the people's minds
Of the four TNG movies I usually rank Nemesis as my second favorite after first contact. The director not knowing anything about the series was pretty apparent. My principal problem with the movie was Shinzon's desire to destroy Earth. It didn't make sense for a character who had endured so much under the heal of the Romulan Empire. I think they should have made his target Romulus and have Picard leading the defense of the Romulan Homeworld.
I never hated it at all. It was probably my favorite of the Next Generation movies. They missed a few tricks while trying to appeal to a mainstream audience (and that was never gonna happen), but otherwise I never had issues with it. Though I always thought B4 should have been trying to whistle Pop Goes the Weasel at the end. They even set it up with Riker in the conference room.
I don't think I've ever "hated" any movie (with the possible exception of "Pee-Wee's Big Adventure",) all I ask is to be reasonably entertained.and the ability to escape to other worlds for a couple of hours.
It's a shame that the budget didn't allow for some scenes with the task force. To show how dangerous and fast the Scimitar was, she could have warped to the task force, took it out (cripple/disable them), then swung back for the Enterprise for the battle sequence that we did see. Might have up the ante if the Scimitar was able to defeat the task force without breaking a sweat before turning their sights on the Enterprise and later the warbirds.
Something I have always wondered about is why the guest actors weren't included in the listings on the posters. From The Motion Picture up to Insurrection, the Star Trek movie posters have included the guest cast but the Nemesis posters leave off Tom Hardy and Ron Perlman and I've never understood why. Just seems like an incredibly odd omission.
You as a Data type android is really cool and scary at the same time. Loved the vid. I blame the studio for the films failure. The deleted scenes would have transformed the film. Paramount ordered the cuts to make Nemesis more action packed. Paramount are responsible for hiring Baird on the cheap, so his failings are their fault. Logan wouldn't be choice as screenwriter on anything. His original script would have been a good movie, but he can't seem to stop blatantly ripping off trek at every opportunity. The end of Nemesis was a rip off of the end of The Wrath of Khan. His script for Alien Covenant is a rip off the TNG episode Datalore. Finally Sean's smiling head covering that dude's butt is a classically hilarious WTF moment.
The only thing that bugged me about Nemesis, was retconning Picards hair loss. In TNG he's shown to still have hair while serving on the Stargazer at the time Jack Crusher died. Here, he's bald as a cadet. The worst movie is still TMP ;)
Nemesis always seemed like an over correction to the slow pace of Insurrection. Adding in all those small deleted scenes that personalized the crew and characters would have softened it a little bit and made it "more" TNG, since I feel like TNG always struck a good balance between action, comedy, and drama. The action was awesome to watch (especially wen I was 15) but it did feel like "Trek Lite", pretty close to the original, but didn't have the right feeling.
I enjoyed the film when it first came out and still do to this day. Every film has its down sides, some more than others, but Nemesis was overall a good film
I did not see Nemisis in the theaters, partially as I was underwhelmed by Insurrection, but also I was overwhelmed with blockbusters! Having watched it years later on DVD, I realized it is a pretty solid film! I'd love to see the deleted scenes restored, though. Question: is the Romulan Supernova the same one that caused the Kelivin universe?
Idk how anyone didnt think it was going to be the last movie. The tagline was "A generations final journey begins," so I dont see how anyone thought there were going to be more TNG movies but I thought that DS9 cud get a movie until everyone got mad about Nemesis. I didn't see how a Voyager movie cud happen tho and Enterprise ended to badly to have one so I guess the reboot was all they cud think of back then.
I was hoping a massive TNG, DS9 and Voyager movie would be made. My initial idea had Voyager not quite making it home at the end of the series, but close enough that it was clear they were home. Then the movie picks up with them coming up behind a enemy fleet that sees the Federation, or even the whole Quadrant, as easy pickings after the Dominion War. Voyager fights through, hell-bent on warning the Federation, only to find a Federation that is weak and battle fatigued. The only person who even listens at first is Picard, and he says he knows where they should go to start building a plan...DS9. They all get on the comms to Worf, who is Ambassador the Qonos, and he tries to get Martok to help again. In fact, I could even see this story as a trilogy, if done right. And Sisko returns at the end of the first or second movie as a cliffhanger to get butts in seats for the next one. Of course, Voyager didn't end in such a subtle way, and Nemesis destroyed any chance of such a movie extravaganza. But in my mind, it was glorious.
Truth be told I’ve never hated Nemesis as much as most people. I think it’s biggest flaw is that it was the send-off movie for the TNG crew and was a big downer. I don’t think Insurrection is bad either but it feels more like a two part episode of TNG rather than a proper movie.
I was 11 years old when my dad kindly took me to the cinema to see Nemesis as a treat (we almost never went to the cinema when I was growing up but my parents used loyalty points from a supermarket to get vouchers). I enjoyed it. Watching it again now I'm 20 years older, I can certainly notice and understand its flaws. But I've also seen the first two seasons of TNG! So, y'know, maintain some perspective! Was it a worthy end for the TNG crew? No. But I've never hated it, and you're quite right that it does have a lot going for it. Especially Tom Hardy! What I hate is the impact the whole thing had on him. I'm so glad that he bounced back, because he is indeed magnificent, and his performance as Shinzon was perfect.
I always thought Tom Hardy was awesome in this. It was the first film I saw him in. As a Star Trek fan I saw a great frightening mirror for Picard. In my opinion... one of my favorites. Great job to all.
I've always felt somehow I was the only person who LOVED nemesis. Spiner didn interview with TV Guide right after first Contact came out saying he wanted them to kill off data, and Beeman himself said, "sorry kill you next time." So, I wasn't surprised when it happened, but how it happened sure hits you in the gut. I think the suddenness of it is perfect. The space Battle Is Awesome as hell, and they've always been threatening to ram a ship into another ship, but seeing it happen for realsies was badass.
I always enjoyed Nemesis, it has it's flaws but, for me, it was as entertaining as most of the Star Trek films, the stakes balanced being both huge and personal, there was some nice fan service and genuine emotion.
You can say it wasn't intended to be the last TNG movie, but it was promoted by the studio as exactly that, Patrick Stewart even said it was the final movie in an appearance on David Letterman
I enjoyed Nemesis when I seen it in theatre. yeah there were some cheesy bits, but there were some really excellent bits too. The baizen rift fight was probably my favorite starship porn until fairly recently. I certainly enjoyed it more than Insurrection.
It's certainly not as bad as many people paint it. If it wasn't for some of the ridiculous action scenes (Picard hovering around aboard the Scimitar in their attack shuttle) and that nonsensical telepathy/ magical healing stuff it could have been pretty decent. It just didn't really move anything forward. They could have explored that Romulan/ Reman thing more and it would have made for valuable additions to the canon. Everyone would look at the movie differently if they had. Since they haven't, it's just another space action movie with a coat of Star Trek.
What I also really liked about the Battle of the Baessen Rift is how the fight went down. If you look closely at the different manoeuvres and decisions made in the battle, it becomes very obvious, that Shinzon not only has the far superior ship, but is also the far superior battle captain. Picard is an explorer, Shinzon is a warrior, a contrast we saw before in that great line “Were we Picards always warriors? I think of myself as an explorer. Were we always explorers?”. Also, when the officers of the enterprise first talk about Starfleet’s Intel on Shinzon, they talk about him like a good commander, who had twelve battles in the dominion war, all successful. Even on even ground Picard would have lost against him.
I disagree. First: Picard won the battle even with an inferior "fleet". Second: Shinzon may have been a great commander against the Jem Hadar, but fighting Starfleet is a whole other thing and he obviously doesn't grasp how far Picard will be going to stop him from using that weapon. He looks positively bumfuzzled when the Enterprise went for ramming speed. I think overall Picard and Shinzon were equals, maybe with a slight advantage to Picard because long experience at some point helped him to understand Shinzon way better than vice versa.
@@pheumann86 You are kind of right, that ramming maouver afterwards was picards time to shine. But regarding the battle itself, Picard Lost. Shinzon even played with him like a cat with a mouse, untill he took some quantum torpedo hits and decided to end it quickly. In some way, Shinzon actually prepared for this battle long before, and Picard didn't seem to realise it untill the end; I''m talking about the Scimitar being cloaked for 17 hours next to the Enterprise. This was a test to see if the Enterprise can detect him, to prepare for the likely szenario of a fight against the Enterprise. This ramming manouver was basically after the battle, when the Enterprise had lost and Shinzon waited for them to surrender. He underestimated Picard, that's right, but in the battle Picard absolutely lost.
@@neptun2810 I get what you're saying, still I have to point out that basically all of Shinzon's advantages are based on the fact that he uses some kind of super battleship. Superior tactics in my opinion don't show by using the obvious advantages of what's basically a Romulan Borg cube, but rather how Picard still manages to deal heavy damage in spite of being massively outgunned. Had there been a small Federation fleet with comparative "cost" to the Scimitar, Picard's experience and his insight into the tactical thinking of his opponent would have won the day even without Data's suicide mission and all the other shenanigans the Enterprise crew went through to - in the end - win the battle. Besides, the battle even taking place this way is mainly due to (bad?) writing. Even an ensign fresh out of the academy would take the communications blackout of that rift into account and either go around it or get Starfleet reinforcements to meet them before entering the anomaly. After all Picard never trusted Shinzon nor did he miscalculate the fact that he was hugely outgunned, which is why he arranged for reinforcements in the first place. To me, all this emphasises Picard's superiority in (space) battle tactics. In fact, besides the old "let the Warbird come close thinking they got us and then blow them to hell at close range" trick Shinzon didn't show any remarkable tactical maneuvers at all - not in the movie anyways.
@@neptun2810 I agree with you on one point though. We have no knowledge of Picard ever having fought a larger land battle, which on the other hand is the only battle experience we know about concerning Shinzon. So Shinzon would probably win a ground battle on equal footing.
I personally love the movie. I went to go see it opening weekend in the theater, and was excited to see where it was king to go next only for it to be put in "stasis" until now.
Personally, I've always liked this film from day one and have always thought that it was more of a victim of franchise fatigue more than anything else. Trek at the time needed a break. There had been a show/movie continuous since next Gen, something that some current franchises are starting to suffer from.
No, it was terrible. Made worse by the trailer spoiling key points. It had a strong opening weekend, then word got out how bad it was. Had the same opening weekend numbers as previous films, than tanked.
Not only do I really enjoy this film... I've never met a trek fan that doesn't like it. This like so much is 'hated online' and yet everyone I know likes it. Its just a good film
Trek Fans at the time were upset that the trailer spoiled too much, that the treatment of B4 seemed to ignore Lore, key characters were absent or mis used, and many other points. After a decent opening weekend word got out and theaters were empty, which is reflected in low box office numbers. Deleted clips and other stories have tried to reframe it, but it's seen as a turd with a few promising points that was squandered by many fans.
Nemesis was a wonderful movie, with amazing scenes, good banter, and a great soundtrack. The problem was found in the editing by the director and producers.
I always liked Nemesis. I remember when I was a kid (I was 8 in 02, yegods), the movie theater here had a giant Enterprise-E model hanging over the entryway. It was awesome to see in theaters. I liked it then, like it now. Is it great? Nope. But it's hardly as bad as people perceive it.
I have always loved Nemesis. I think it was a really fun and subversive movie. Picard Season 3 has retroactively made that movie even better. So emotional and nostalgic. 😢
Never hated this movie either, but felt snubbed by the lack of closure if it was to be the last. Watched a fan edit that weaved in all the deleted scenes a few years ago and really fell in love with it actually. Still not the closure we wanted, but so many callbacks to the previous movies and episodes that it at least sated the snub. Now with the reunion on Picard, I can only hope that Paramount does that extended edition properly so we can all enjoy it the way it should have originally been seen, like they did with the Motion Picture recently.
I think the issues were compounded because this was the goodbye to the TNG crew. Luckily 20 years later we got a proper send off. I think it'll be judged much less harshly from now on.
Nemesis may have a intriguing story and some good, fun or action packed seqences but overall honestley it's barely better than Star Trek 5. But just as Star Trek 5 it still is part of a Movie watch through.
Oh, Nemesis sucked more than Insurrection. Also, Admiral Janeway came as no surprise to me. After all of the morally questionable things she did on Voyager (Tuvix anyone?), her promotion to an admiral of Starfleet was assured.
Never understood the hate this movie gets. Sure i think it has its flaws (mainly in some of the B4 Data subplot), but I think it’s the second best TNG movie and has one of the top 3 or 4 villains in the movie series. What’s often ignored when talking about about the box office returns is that it was up against the Two Towers in the height of LOTR-mania, being the hot new things. Sure some people like me saw both, but if you were only going to see one… Nemisis probably wouldn’t be the one most people picked.
I'm so glad that you added Tom Hardy to the list. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for playing Shinzon. For someone as young as he was to give that kind of performance, it's clear that he's got a lot of talent. It was a hell of a performance on his part and unlike that idiot of a director, he actually prepared for it! I'm happy that he has gotten the recognition that he deserves thru the years. He's more than earned it.
His performance alone is reason enough to watch this movie.
When the Federation is ashes, you have my permission to die
Acting toe to toe with Sir Patrick is no small feat.
Tom Hardy's performance and acting as Shinzon really helped Star Trek: Nemesis turn into a watchable film.
He was fan-fucking-tastic. Love him in this movie. Didn't hate the overall thing, definitely feel it gets a bad rap. And compared to some of the junk we're getting these days, it's high art.
I never "hated" it (and actually liked Insurrection) but you made me truly reevaluate and appreciate Nemesis with this video. Thank you.
Same! I like all the Trek movies, but this does make me appreciate Nemesis even more.
I actually really like Insurrection. Maybe it has lower stakes and a slower pace, but it feels more TNG than any of the other movies.
Insurrection was absolute crap in story, acting, and VFX.
@@QBCPerdition Insurrection felt more like a tv show with 2 parts,than an actual film.But,it's still good to see the TNG crew in their prime.
@@powerbadpowerbad It's whole plot of a "fountain of youth planet" is plain stupid along with its execution. Along with the fact that it was a pure cash-grab after First Contact. Also, Johnathan Frakes was having too much fun with the cast to take the multi-million-dollar budget seriously. AND it was written by Michael Pillar who just because he wrote for the series-- didn't mean it would work cinematically.
Hence, Insurrection as a movie and as Star Trek lore is a hot load of underwhelming, dumb, boring, sleezy garbage.
Picard: "He must not be allowed to use that weapon. All other concerns are secondary...
You understand me.."
Somber but dutiful looks among senior officers.
Riker: "Yes, sir."
Picard on the PA:"All hands, Battle Stations!! "
That rocked to no end.
"And like a thousand other commanders on a thousand other battlefields, I wait for the dawn"
And as I recall, right about then is when Picard puts his desire to make it personal and take on Chinzon on himself instead of self a security team or Data above everything else. This is the decision that killed Data.
If stopping the Thaleron weapon was so obviously important, then why did Picard immediately thereafter allow his personal desires to dictate the actions that would decide the entire future of the Enterprise, Earth, and the entire Federation?
I’ve never understood all the hate this film has received over the years. I’ve always enjoyed it and find it to be just a really fun ST romp. To this day, I LOVE the space battle with the Scimitar. It’s not a perfect ST movie, but I’ve always had a warm place in my heart for this movie. Plus, it has a wonderful soundtrack. Thanks for reminding us of all the reasons to appreciate this part of Star Trek lore.
It was an ok film but I couldnt get over that it was basically TNG: THE WRATH OF KHAN
Only bad thing imho is the dune buggy scene in the beginning. That was kind of dumb. The rest of the film is solid.
Obviously opinions are influenced by expectations. If I buy a book just because it has a nice cover and never read it, I will not care if the content is crap. If you went to this movie hoping for a "fun romp", then you got your money's worth. But the Star Trek fans wanted to see a Star Trek movie. "Nemesis" was advertised as a Star Trek movie. Obviously those people will be disappointed with this movie.
Yes, the OST is fantastic!
Agreed, it’s one of my faves
There's a deleted scene where Worf expresses his dislike of having to work with Romulans because "they have no honor." Then in the scene, which is included in the movie, when the Remans board the Enterprise, Worf says to Riker, "Commander. The Romulans fought with honor!" I think it would have been better to have the deleted scene in the movie because it makes Worf's realization more impactful.
That would only really be good for non or mild trek fans cause trek fans, especially TNG fans, know how much Worf LOATHES Romulans which is of course due to the Khitomer massacre and how his pops was done dirty.
The deleted scene with Worf pays off his TNG arc since he chose to let a romulan die rather than help in the show. The deleted scene was major character development for the son of Mogh.
That deleted scene with Riker getting the promotion is a shame 😢
About
I never hated Nemesis to begin with. The problem I had with it is Baird wasn’t a Trek fan, and did nothing to endear himself to the cast who knew their characters and had already done movies. Instead of working with them, he decided to do his own thing.
Yes Frakes would have been a better choice.
Pretty much the exact situation with Picard S1 and S2. They wanted it to be more like Battlestar Galactica or Star Wars, and it really shows.
I think I speak for all here when I say: To hell with Stuart Baird!
Rick Berman had his hand in Generations. That was, by far, the worst trek movie. Nemesis was a fucking five star movie compared to Generations.
It sounds like he didn't ask for or accept help. Not sure if that's because of or despite 5 of the regular cast members having Star Trek directing experience at that point
Nemesis should have had a better director because Stuart Baird was a serious misstep.
I agree and hearing everything since 2002, yeah. He was not the right person for it AT ALL.
I always felt sad and forlorned at the end of Nemesis, but I never hated the film and still watch it regularly.
Those points about Baird and the deleted scenes are directly related. Because he wasn't familiar with Star Trek, he deleted a bunch of scenes without understanding the value they added from the point of view of the fans. Screenwriter John Logan obviously understood when he wrote those scenes.
I didn't really hate this movie after I saw it. I was more: "After all of this, this is how they want to end things?"
I honestly don't think this was supposed to be an ending. I think they intended to make more movies after this but it tanked and Trek was starting to dwindle even on TV at the time.
I think people were starting to get Trek fatigue by this point.
RELEASE THE EXTENDED CUT
Good idea!!!😀😀😀
I never hated Nemesis but this video sure makes me appreciate it a lot more. I always enjoyed Nemesis.
Don't worry, I still hate it so the universe is still in balance.
I enjoyed the ship battle but the character moments were mostly deleted and it needed them
I don’t blame Baird, although he should have made an effort to actually learn the universe, I blame the studio for choosing him as a director. Star Trek is a franchise that requires those involved to understand and appreciate the universe.
@@calimann83 Good point!
I saw this film at the cinema and hated it. LOL. Thought it was-TRASH. Wanted the TNG film cast to go out with a-BANG-not a-WHIMPER- LOL.
Well, I have to push back on point 5. I think it's unfair to Insurrection. Insurrection is indeed not as action packed and high stakes as Nemesis, but that is excactly the beauty of it. It slows down the pace and shows a planet with beautiful nature with regular people who are facing a treat to their way of life caused by other people's short-sightedness. That to me is a great example of a theme that Star Trek always talks about. That theme makes it great scifi to me, instead of it being a more "standard action movie with a little touch of Trek". I think that in that way, Insurrection stands out more than Nemesis compared to other non-Trek (action) movies. I'm not surprised that Marina Sirtis likes action over a slow movie. That seems to fit her personality. But I've always kind of liked slow film and tv. Real life is hard enough, and a film like Insurrection really helps me to take my mind of busy daily life while also being a typical Trek movie with a relevant social topic. And there is enough action in it to drive the plot forward. I think it Insurrection actually has a better balance between story and action than many other modern (Trek) movies. And Insurrection has great music too...
The good thing about Insurrection is that after 13 movies, it is still the only one that actually feels like the TV series, that is exactly what an episode of TNG was like. I understand that is why some people dislike it because it could have been a great one-hour episode rather than a mediocre two-hour movie. But if I ever want to show someone what the TV series was like< is show them Insurrection
@@Michael-bk5nz
That is usually what people criticise about it. Apparently, a movie is not allowed to be "just like the TV series". And to some degree, I get it: If you have a much bigger budget than "Best of Both Worlds" - MUCH bigger - the result should also be more impressive. But if we ignore that, "Insurrection" was by far the best TNG-movie.
When within the first 15 minutes, there's a broadway sing-a-long in order to "distract" an android whose brain functions billions of times faster than the other characters.. it was hard to take it seriously at all from that point.
@@rickosborne6521
Cut to: sand buggies ...
I also liked Insurrection just fine. It had the warm blanket of Sci-Fi feel that was TNG.
Unlike many who disliked Star Trek Nemesis, I liked it immensely because of the famous score at the beginning also during the movie where all the members of the Romulan Imperial Senate, gathered in their rotunda, are murdered by a radiation that turns them into rock. The other scene I liked was the Enterprise-E showdown against Shizon's ship the Scimitar and when Picard orders the Enterprise to ram the Scimitar ship it's a nice cinematic scene that reminds me a lot the movie Generation in the scene where the Enterprise-D crashed into Veridian III. I also liked the scene in which the Romulans’ commander Donatra assists Picard to confront Shinzon and a friendship is formed between Donatra and Picard.
I agree with 50% of that. The score was indeed fantastic :)
Nemesis is a brilliant movie, I enjoyed it then and I still enjoy it now.
I hope it gets more love 🥰
It's hard to get over the way they treated Troi.
she get's her own back though "Remember... me?" gave me chills.
I agree, categorically unnecessary.
@@CallumDMD here’s one pointer: start calling them women.
@@CallumDMD You shouldn't need to be a woman to understand why gratuitous sexual assault of female characters is a harmful trope, or to notice that it serves no meaningful purpose whatsoever in the plot except as a random unnecessary act of evil to make the villains less likeable.
@Callum Drummond
What's so alien of women you cant empathise with them?
It's a shame ppl didn't like this film, I enjoyed it then and still enjoy it today. The E is such a gorgeous ship
Yes! Wish it had been in picard season 3
I really liked the battle scene between the Enterprise and the Scimitar. I thought it was well paced and the visuals were very good. To be honest it really is the only reason I would watch the movie again.
it was a great non-fleet battle sequence. That's why Worf prefers the "additional phaser arrays and weapon systems of the E..."
I absolutely remember sitting in the theater and being blown away with how BIG the film was (especially compared to Insurrection!) I actually enjoyed the film and felt it was the TNG version of TWOK... not a perfect film by any stretch of the imagination, but definitely had me on the edge of my set when the Enterprise RAMMED the Scimitar... delivering on Worf's line from First Contact!!!!
(RAMMING SPEED!)
I see it more or less on the same level as ST 3. It is far away from being the best or the worst Trek but alright. I think the violation scene was distatefull but it was so much more rewarding when she later used her telepatic powers against him.
I really hope they will get around to put the scenes that were cut back into the film.
The movie was hurt by the attempt to emphasize on the action and by cutting out the character moments (thankfully, TH-cam edits of them deleted scenes exist now)
So it was cut to death
yes...too much action to the point for me at least it doesn't seem like a star trek movie in vibe at least
Yeah, the director may have been trying to give you HIS version of what a Star Trek movie should have been but with a franchise this old, you don't disregard the fans and what they love. Sure, action (especially on a big screen) is great, but many fans come for the characters that they've loved for years, and he didn't seem to get that.
Why was Baird hired to direct tng’s swan song movie when he clearly held no interest to understand the series? Why wasn’t he fired?
I can guess that they didn’t fire him because it’s too difficult to guess the final product during production and too costly to start over with another director. The part I don’t understand is why Hollywood studios regularly hire people in Producer and Director roles that have no personal interest in the IP/lore for non-reboot projects.
I think it comes down to the one thing that determines all decisions in Hollywood. Money. Paramount were under contract to give Baird the directors chair. It would have cost Paramount dearly to break the contract. So they gave him a movie they didn't care about.
I think they were far too kind in this video about the Director. Although the producers have blame too, but Stuart Baird spent more time as a film editor than a director. His Oscar nomination was for editing in Gorillas in the Mist. The TNG movie franchise has always suffered from the writing and budgeting. We all remember reused bird of prey explosion from Generations. First Contact was supposed to have an even more grand battle. We don’t speak of insurrection. Thank god ST:Picard got it right for a true send off.
"Thank god ST:Picard got it right for a true send off." Could you imagine writing that 2 years ago? Not that I ever disliked Picard, but damn that last season was good.
@@Rhewin Season 3 needed the first two to set it up. They could have used more polish (a limitation of the scope of their ideas vs. the length of the season), but I like what they were trying to do. For the most part it worked. I think season 1 needed about double the episodes to flesh out all the things it was juggling, but it was still ok. And season 2, the middle was to discordant, they didn't flow from one episode to the next (see Rios going from an ICE prisoner to saying how much he loves this time). But I think if they had gone straight into season 1 with the 'member-berries, it would have felt cheap. Just cashing in on nostalgia. Where as by waiting to the third season, it feels like they're closing two books at once, so it's more satisfying.
@@cryofpaine I was fine with it for the most part, but it wasn’t a conclusion to TNG. That’s what I was commenting on. It was definitely doing it’s own thing unlike S3 which is basically a direct sequel.
I thought S1 actually told an interesting story, though it was unnecessarily edgy half of the time. I still was glad to have watched it. I agree with everything you said on S2. Solid start and finish. Really flimsy middle.
@@cryofpaine I did lose my patience with episode 3 of season 3 - it crammed too much in and I found it lost something in accelerating - for example, when Worf and Raffi are interrogating that one guy - it went stereotype in a cheap way. I turned it off and watched a couple summary reviews for the next 2 episodes to learn what was going on. I'll go back someday and watch those eventually. Maybe.
Ha, Brie4's head on a stand. ! Very clever.
I like the bit about the Bassen Rift battle, there was supposed to be more ships, but budget cuts meant only the Enterprise was there - the video cuts after the graphic begins listing the ships, stopping after only Enterprise is listed, then Troi looks shocked. Very good, again.
And I see a little NX next to the photo frame when Voyager's crew gathers.
Nemesis was a fantastic film. Hardy was excellent and should have ignored the internet armchair critics. The run time was surprisingly short, and the studio cut the film to get it shorter - on purpose. This makes no sense. Releasing the film at the same time as other big films is just negligent.
I think the studio ruined the film, and I think it was on purpose.
I do want to see a full directors cut.
I did ask Brie to refer to herself as Brie-4 if she felt like doing the joke. Either she forgot or didn't think it was that funny. Glad you got it though 😂
20 years already? well.. this makes me feel old lol. Stil remeber watching the movie in the cinema like it was yesterday and honestly, i quite liked it. Obvioulsy it´s not a masterpiece but just like Star Wars Episode I (in my opinion), Nemesis was and is enjoyable and in the end.. All Good Things must come to an end.
ps.: Data singing "Blue Skies", in honor of their conjugation, makes it already worth it ☺
I think I’m younger than you and it still makes me feel old, movie came out the year I was born
@@Cdr2002 WOW you're a youngster, lol. You're barely 21 (if even that). I was a freshman in college when this was released
@@thecunninlynguist I started high school ^^ stil don´t regret paying for that movie in the cinema.
@@thecunninlynguist 21, yes
I remember getting hyped for the trailer on Dial up.
I grew up absolutely loving the film. I was and still am captivated by the final battle between the enterprise and the scimitar.
I also grew up loving it. I was a young teen when it came out, having grown up my entire life watching Star Trek. My father took me to see it, and I almost never got to see him. I was also a huge Romulan fan. So, it really hit many of the right notes for me for personal and lore reasons.
Honestly, I love Nemesis. It's an underrated movie.
never hated it either. best space battle in all of trek. good pacing. good acting.
I rewatched this 2 weeks ago ironically. It wasn't as bad as I remember. It's certainly very flat and dull in parts , but the space battle is quite good. And as Ms Sirtis said.....at least its not Insurrection 😢
Reason #11 At least this time the ship was flown into something INTENTIONALLY.
#12 No Borg
#13 No Time Travel
I never hated this movie. Sure the plot could be better, but it was fun. That whole sequence with Donatria realizing how insane Shinzon is and getting everyone to turn on him was great character work. And the battle itself against the Scimitar was perfect, one of the best spacebattles I ever saw.
I am a long time star trek fan and I didn't hate Nemesis. It made me want a sequel at the time which we didn't really get till season 3 of picard which was like a movie as a whole and was good
Sorry, but what we got with Nemesis was bad with the exception of a few concepts and Goldsmith's score. Heck, Goldsmith's score for Star Trek V is the best part of that film as well. I agree with the cast that Baird was the problem. The Director is the one ultimately responsible for the creative vision for the film. Look at all the cut scenes. Baird left all of the character-centric scenes out of the film. Instead of a Star Trek film, we got Baird's interpretation of Hollywood schlock. Oh, here's a Hot Take: Marsters would've been a better Shinzon.
The only thing I ever truly hated about this movie was the fact that Data dies. As a film, I think it’s good overall. After watching Picard season one, I went back and watched this movie again and I really realized how beside himself Picard is after Data’s death. It really affected me in such a different way than any other time watching the movie and even though season one of Picard isn’t widely loved, it does pick up on this idea of Data’s death changing and haunting Picard for years after.
I'm in the same camp. Sad ending, yes. But, I really don't see why this particular film is so loathed and ridiculed by Trek fans. It's really no less entertaining than any of the other TNG films. It's a solid film. Great characterization, too.
I can say, I love this movie when it came out and love it even more now. I love all of the movies. Also, Tom Hardy and Ron Perlman were BOTH amazing in their parts. Or did people forget he too was in it? Shinzon's Viceroy.....
It falls in the hands of the director. I wish Frakes had directed it.
He really should have. It would've done better I think. But it is what it is.
Number zero: hate takes up more energy than it's worth.
Clearly never watched the first 2 seasons of picard then
To me, Insurectio wasn't as good as Nemesis. From what had been said, The Higher ups (Moonves) wanted the Trek Movies finished. He manipulated the Showrunners to higher Baird over a few others who had Star Trek experience (Frakes)!
Marina Sirtis is too hard on Insurrection. Maybe because that's when she noticed her boobs had started to firm up (not that we care about that in this day age).
😅 agreed, thats why Data gave Worf the same advice ☺
that line about her boobs made Insurrection the better movie
I never really hated Nemeisis, I was just very disappointed. It had this massive potential with the Romulan story but a bunch of things spoiled it.
The B4 plot was dumb
The sex scene was cringey
The romulans were relegated to minor characters
I never thought Nemesis was that bad. The battle scene was really good
And now with the ended series finale of Picard, we may have a possible updated reason for Shinzon's illness: the then unknown Borganic tech either made the Romulan tech incompatible or neutralized it [or some other side effect].
I like that theory. Sure there's the accelerated ageing, but depending on when the Romulans had a sample of Picards dna you may well be right.
Nemesis may not be the greatest TNG outing but I will defend this movie to my last breath. It didn't deserve the hate it got. It balanced the feeling of a long episode with fun, cinema-style action really well imho. (Except B4. I don't talk about B4)
We don't talk about B4.
I agree
You're wrong 😍
@@thewinner7382 you're wrong
Bonus reason: It's the only place in cinematic history you can watch Bane get into a fight with Professor X.
HAHA!!! True!
I’ll add one: this movie (and Generations) play into the themes sometimes explored in TNG of Picard’s mixed feelings about family and legacy that reach a conclusion of sorts in this season of Picard.
Oo! Very good!
I saw this movie the day it came out in theaters and fell in love with it. I always thought it was a really good movie. I just wish people had given it more love, and attention at the time, because it was actually really good.
1 to comment 7 to like, great video as always
I’ve always loved this film!
Thank you for this video. Nemesis will always hold a special place in my memory. It wasn't great, but it wasn't awful either. I excitedly read the novelization as soon as it came out. I watched it at the theater on opening weekend. A friend gave me the Shinzon action figure because she knew I was so excited about the movie. Despite its flaws, I appreciated the portrayal of Picard and Data. You could really see how far Data came from the early days of Next Generation. He had grown and matured and then gave his life to save his friends, the most human thing a person can do. It was a fitting end to an incredible character. Meanwhile, I loved how Picard took B4 in, almost like the child he never had. Data had given up his life, but here was new life and Picard was going to do right by him. It broke my heard when they completely discarded B4 at the beginning of Picard. They undid the really neat thing they had set up. Regardless, once again, thanks for the video.
some compelling reasons. The box office one should be #1...cause you know Paramount did that on purpose to wash their hands of the franchise. No studio in the right mind would go up against LotR or even the lion king.
I'd argue that w/o Nemesis, no Picard. and we wouldn't have gotten that awesome Season 3 and beautiful finale for both Picard and TNG crew.
Nemesis is not the reason we got Picard, it’s the reason we had to wait 20 years for it. We got S3 in spite of Nemesis, not because of it. What little we know of the movie they planned to make after Nemesis indicates we would’ve had a fitting send-off to not only the TNG crew but DS9 and Voyager over a decade ago.
@@mmcfacialhair I see what you're saying, but I would take Picard S3 over a movie, around that time period. The movie would've prob been better than Nemesis, but the 10 eps we got of Picard S3 was one hell of a send off. and the time lapse might've be beneficial overall, opposed to a immediate follow up in Nemesis.
it was a ok movie.. but as people say maybe too much action in it..
but in my mind its better than star trek insurrection...and also they probably should have made the follow up to nemesis that they were talking about... it probably would have done this movie better.. at least in the people's minds
It makes me feel old that there are adults walking around who were born after this movie came out
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact there are adults who were born after the turn of the millennium
Of the four TNG movies I usually rank Nemesis as my second favorite after first contact.
The director not knowing anything about the series was pretty apparent.
My principal problem with the movie was Shinzon's desire to destroy Earth. It didn't make sense for a character who had endured so much under the heal of the Romulan Empire. I think they should have made his target Romulus and have Picard leading the defense of the Romulan Homeworld.
Should have cut the dune buggy scene somewhat to make time for the deleted scenes.
Yes! I'm seeing so much distain for that sequence and I'm glad I'm not the only one!
I never hated it at all. It was probably my favorite of the Next Generation movies. They missed a few tricks while trying to appeal to a mainstream audience (and that was never gonna happen), but otherwise I never had issues with it. Though I always thought B4 should have been trying to whistle Pop Goes the Weasel at the end. They even set it up with Riker in the conference room.
I think I speak for all here when I say: To hell with Stuart Baird!
I don't think I've ever "hated" any movie (with the possible exception of "Pee-Wee's Big Adventure",) all I ask is to be reasonably entertained.and the ability to escape to other worlds for a couple of hours.
It's a shame that the budget didn't allow for some scenes with the task force. To show how dangerous and fast the Scimitar was, she could have warped to the task force, took it out (cripple/disable them), then swung back for the Enterprise for the battle sequence that we did see. Might have up the ante if the Scimitar was able to defeat the task force without breaking a sweat before turning their sights on the Enterprise and later the warbirds.
Something I have always wondered about is why the guest actors weren't included in the listings on the posters. From The Motion Picture up to Insurrection, the Star Trek movie posters have included the guest cast but the Nemesis posters leave off Tom Hardy and Ron Perlman and I've never understood why. Just seems like an incredibly odd omission.
I never hated Nemesis, but I still appreciate this video.
You as a Data type android is really cool and scary at the same time. Loved the vid.
I blame the studio for the films failure. The deleted scenes would have transformed the film. Paramount ordered the cuts to make Nemesis more action packed.
Paramount are responsible for hiring Baird on the cheap, so his failings are their fault.
Logan wouldn't be choice as screenwriter on anything. His original script would have been a good movie, but he can't seem to stop blatantly ripping off trek at every opportunity. The end of Nemesis was a rip off of the end of The Wrath of Khan. His script for Alien Covenant is a rip off the TNG episode Datalore.
Finally Sean's smiling head covering that dude's butt is a classically hilarious WTF moment.
The only thing that bugged me about Nemesis, was retconning Picards hair loss. In TNG he's shown to still have hair while serving on the Stargazer at the time Jack Crusher died. Here, he's bald as a cadet.
The worst movie is still TMP ;)
No way, I'd watch The Motion Picture over Generations, Nemesis or any of the JJ ones!
Nemesis always seemed like an over correction to the slow pace of Insurrection. Adding in all those small deleted scenes that personalized the crew and characters would have softened it a little bit and made it "more" TNG, since I feel like TNG always struck a good balance between action, comedy, and drama. The action was awesome to watch (especially wen I was 15) but it did feel like "Trek Lite", pretty close to the original, but didn't have the right feeling.
I enjoyed the film when it first came out and still do to this day. Every film has its down sides, some more than others, but Nemesis was overall a good film
I did not see Nemisis in the theaters, partially as I was underwhelmed by Insurrection, but also I was overwhelmed with blockbusters! Having watched it years later on DVD, I realized it is a pretty solid film! I'd love to see the deleted scenes restored, though.
Question: is the Romulan Supernova the same one that caused the Kelivin universe?
Idk how anyone didnt think it was going to be the last movie. The tagline was "A generations final journey begins," so I dont see how anyone thought there were going to be more TNG movies but I thought that DS9 cud get a movie until everyone got mad about Nemesis. I didn't see how a Voyager movie cud happen tho and Enterprise ended to badly to have one so I guess the reboot was all they cud think of back then.
I was hoping a massive TNG, DS9 and Voyager movie would be made.
My initial idea had Voyager not quite making it home at the end of the series, but close enough that it was clear they were home.
Then the movie picks up with them coming up behind a enemy fleet that sees the Federation, or even the whole Quadrant, as easy pickings after the Dominion War. Voyager fights through, hell-bent on warning the Federation, only to find a Federation that is weak and battle fatigued. The only person who even listens at first is Picard, and he says he knows where they should go to start building a plan...DS9. They all get on the comms to Worf, who is Ambassador the Qonos, and he tries to get Martok to help again.
In fact, I could even see this story as a trilogy, if done right. And Sisko returns at the end of the first or second movie as a cliffhanger to get butts in seats for the next one.
Of course, Voyager didn't end in such a subtle way, and Nemesis destroyed any chance of such a movie extravaganza.
But in my mind, it was glorious.
Truth be told I’ve never hated Nemesis as much as most people. I think it’s biggest flaw is that it was the send-off movie for the TNG crew and was a big downer.
I don’t think Insurrection is bad either but it feels more like a two part episode of TNG rather than a proper movie.
I was 11 years old when my dad kindly took me to the cinema to see Nemesis as a treat (we almost never went to the cinema when I was growing up but my parents used loyalty points from a supermarket to get vouchers). I enjoyed it. Watching it again now I'm 20 years older, I can certainly notice and understand its flaws. But I've also seen the first two seasons of TNG! So, y'know, maintain some perspective! Was it a worthy end for the TNG crew? No. But I've never hated it, and you're quite right that it does have a lot going for it. Especially Tom Hardy! What I hate is the impact the whole thing had on him. I'm so glad that he bounced back, because he is indeed magnificent, and his performance as Shinzon was perfect.
I always thought Tom Hardy was awesome in this. It was the first film I saw him in. As a Star Trek fan I saw a great frightening mirror for Picard. In my opinion... one of my favorites. Great job to all.
I've always felt somehow I was the only person who LOVED nemesis. Spiner didn interview with TV Guide right after first Contact came out saying he wanted them to kill off data, and Beeman himself said, "sorry kill you next time." So, I wasn't surprised when it happened, but how it happened sure hits you in the gut. I think the suddenness of it is perfect. The space Battle Is Awesome as hell, and they've always been threatening to ram a ship into another ship, but seeing it happen for realsies was badass.
I always enjoyed Nemesis, it has it's flaws but, for me, it was as entertaining as most of the Star Trek films, the stakes balanced being both huge and personal, there was some nice fan service and genuine emotion.
You can say it wasn't intended to be the last TNG movie, but it was promoted by the studio as exactly that, Patrick Stewart even said it was the final movie in an appearance on David Letterman
That’s called marketing
@@daneberryman if it wasn't planned as the last movie claiming that is what it is is literally the exact opposite of that
I enjoyed Nemesis when I seen it in theatre. yeah there were some cheesy bits, but there were some really excellent bits too. The baizen rift fight was probably my favorite starship porn until fairly recently. I certainly enjoyed it more than Insurrection.
It's certainly not as bad as many people paint it. If it wasn't for some of the ridiculous action scenes (Picard hovering around aboard the Scimitar in their attack shuttle) and that nonsensical telepathy/ magical healing stuff it could have been pretty decent. It just didn't really move anything forward. They could have explored that Romulan/ Reman thing more and it would have made for valuable additions to the canon. Everyone would look at the movie differently if they had. Since they haven't, it's just another space action movie with a coat of Star Trek.
Yeah, Star Trek isn't really known for it's car chases etc 🤦♂️bloody Baird!
After the garbage of the first 2 seasons of picard I'm pretty sure they can be looked past
It was just badly directed and the plot was very thin. Clearly the cast weren't enjoying themselves as much as the previous two movies.
What I also really liked about the Battle of the Baessen Rift is how the fight went down. If you look closely at the different manoeuvres and decisions made in the battle, it becomes very obvious, that Shinzon not only has the far superior ship, but is also the far superior battle captain. Picard is an explorer, Shinzon is a warrior, a contrast we saw before in that great line “Were we Picards always warriors? I think of myself as an explorer. Were we always explorers?”. Also, when the officers of the enterprise first talk about Starfleet’s Intel on Shinzon, they talk about him like a good commander, who had twelve battles in the dominion war, all successful. Even on even ground Picard would have lost against him.
I disagree. First: Picard won the battle even with an inferior "fleet". Second: Shinzon may have been a great commander against the Jem Hadar, but fighting Starfleet is a whole other thing and he obviously doesn't grasp how far Picard will be going to stop him from using that weapon. He looks positively bumfuzzled when the Enterprise went for ramming speed. I think overall Picard and Shinzon were equals, maybe with a slight advantage to Picard because long experience at some point helped him to understand Shinzon way better than vice versa.
@@pheumann86 You are kind of right, that ramming maouver afterwards was picards time to shine. But regarding the battle itself, Picard Lost. Shinzon even played with him like a cat with a mouse, untill he took some quantum torpedo hits and decided to end it quickly. In some way, Shinzon actually prepared for this battle long before, and Picard didn't seem to realise it untill the end; I''m talking about the Scimitar being cloaked for 17 hours next to the Enterprise. This was a test to see if the Enterprise can detect him, to prepare for the likely szenario of a fight against the Enterprise. This ramming manouver was basically after the battle, when the Enterprise had lost and Shinzon waited for them to surrender. He underestimated Picard, that's right, but in the battle Picard absolutely lost.
@@neptun2810 I get what you're saying, still I have to point out that basically all of Shinzon's advantages are based on the fact that he uses some kind of super battleship. Superior tactics in my opinion don't show by using the obvious advantages of what's basically a Romulan Borg cube, but rather how Picard still manages to deal heavy damage in spite of being massively outgunned. Had there been a small Federation fleet with comparative "cost" to the Scimitar, Picard's experience and his insight into the tactical thinking of his opponent would have won the day even without Data's suicide mission and all the other shenanigans the Enterprise crew went through to - in the end - win the battle. Besides, the battle even taking place this way is mainly due to (bad?) writing. Even an ensign fresh out of the academy would take the communications blackout of that rift into account and either go around it or get Starfleet reinforcements to meet them before entering the anomaly. After all Picard never trusted Shinzon nor did he miscalculate the fact that he was hugely outgunned, which is why he arranged for reinforcements in the first place.
To me, all this emphasises Picard's superiority in (space) battle tactics. In fact, besides the old "let the Warbird come close thinking they got us and then blow them to hell at close range" trick Shinzon didn't show any remarkable tactical maneuvers at all - not in the movie anyways.
@@neptun2810 I agree with you on one point though. We have no knowledge of Picard ever having fought a larger land battle, which on the other hand is the only battle experience we know about concerning Shinzon. So Shinzon would probably win a ground battle on equal footing.
I personally love the movie. I went to go see it opening weekend in the theater, and was excited to see where it was king to go next only for it to be put in "stasis" until now.
Personally, I've always liked this film from day one and have always thought that it was more of a victim of franchise fatigue more than anything else. Trek at the time needed a break. There had been a show/movie continuous since next Gen, something that some current franchises are starting to suffer from.
100% agree
No, it was terrible. Made worse by the trailer spoiling key points. It had a strong opening weekend, then word got out how bad it was. Had the same opening weekend numbers as previous films, than tanked.
After the 'masterpieces' of Into Darkness & Beyond, I developed a real appreciation for Nemesis !! 🤣🤣
I thought nemesis and just rewatched insurrection and loved it, too. They hold up surprisingly well after all these years
No disrespect to the host or writer of this video, but I could come up with 20 reasons why this is an amazing movie!
Not only do I really enjoy this film... I've never met a trek fan that doesn't like it. This like so much is 'hated online' and yet everyone I know likes it. Its just a good film
It was written in a way that ONLY Star Trek fans would like it.
You have now. It's awful.
Trek Fans at the time were upset that the trailer spoiled too much, that the treatment of B4 seemed to ignore Lore, key characters were absent or mis used, and many other points. After a decent opening weekend word got out and theaters were empty, which is reflected in low box office numbers. Deleted clips and other stories have tried to reframe it, but it's seen as a turd with a few promising points that was squandered by many fans.
I'm a huge TNG fan... hated it
Nemesis was a wonderful movie, with amazing scenes, good banter, and a great soundtrack. The problem was found in the editing by the director and producers.
Tom Hardy in Legend. If you haven't seen it, you should, it's a masterpiece, especially as he's playing both Krays.
Nah, it all falls apart when the cast is made to act as though Shinzon is obviously a clone of Picard because, you know, bald, English accent.
I always liked Nemesis. I remember when I was a kid (I was 8 in 02, yegods), the movie theater here had a giant Enterprise-E model hanging over the entryway. It was awesome to see in theaters. I liked it then, like it now. Is it great? Nope. But it's hardly as bad as people perceive it.
+1 To Never hated it, sorry to the sheeple. Has one if not the best battle scene in any Trek movie.
I loved Nemesis to begin with. So, this video is just the extra positivity I needed.
I have always loved Nemesis. I think it was a really fun and subversive movie. Picard Season 3 has retroactively made that movie even better. So emotional and nostalgic. 😢
The nemesis director should have been tarted and feathered
There were too many good cut scenes and they would have added to the movie
I can't prove it..but I feel like Nemesis was made to be hated ;P Like a reverse-psychological thing
Never hated this movie either, but felt snubbed by the lack of closure if it was to be the last. Watched a fan edit that weaved in all the deleted scenes a few years ago and really fell in love with it actually. Still not the closure we wanted, but so many callbacks to the previous movies and episodes that it at least sated the snub. Now with the reunion on Picard, I can only hope that Paramount does that extended edition properly so we can all enjoy it the way it should have originally been seen, like they did with the Motion Picture recently.
I'd love to see it with the scenes edited back in. "Snubbed" is a good way to put it.
top 1 reasons to keep hating star trek: nemesis - it's bad :)
I think the issues were compounded because this was the goodbye to the TNG crew.
Luckily 20 years later we got a proper send off.
I think it'll be judged much less harshly from now on.
The speech of “The Echo over the voice” was so good. Overall I liked Nemesis.
Nemesis may have a intriguing story and some good, fun or action packed seqences but overall honestley it's barely better than Star Trek 5. But just as Star Trek 5 it still is part of a Movie watch through.
Oh, Nemesis sucked more than Insurrection. Also, Admiral Janeway came as no surprise to me. After all of the morally questionable things she did on Voyager (Tuvix anyone?), her promotion to an admiral of Starfleet was assured.
Never understood the hate this movie gets. Sure i think it has its flaws (mainly in some of the B4 Data subplot), but I think it’s the second best TNG movie and has one of the top 3 or 4 villains in the movie series.
What’s often ignored when talking about about the box office returns is that it was up against the Two Towers in the height of LOTR-mania, being the hot new things. Sure some people like me saw both, but if you were only going to see one… Nemisis probably wouldn’t be the one most people picked.