Why I'm WORRIED About Film Photography
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- Have you ever considered just how bad things would be if Kodak stopped making film? There have been market downturns and changes in the industry that have left us but basically one lone color film manufacturer.
In this video, we delve into the significant repercussions of Kodak's closure on the cherished hobby of film photography. As one of the pioneering giants in the industry, Kodak's absence would pose imminent challenges to film enthusiasts worldwide. Join me as I explore the dwindling availability of essential film stocks, the potential rise in prices due to limited supply, and the uncertain future of analog photography. From the iconic Kodachrome to the beloved Portra series, the loss of these legendary films signals a paradigm shift for photographers who cherish the tangible magic of analog. Discover how this closure impacts not just the products but also the communities and culture surrounding film photography. Amidst these challenges, we seek to find solutions and avenues to keep the art of film photography alive and thriving. As always, I appreciate you watching.
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How screwed would we be if Kodak stopped making film?
I do B&W film photography. I like tmax400 but could adapt to other manufacturers products when my hoard runs out.
Color film would be decimated for all intents and purposes. Black and white would gain a boost in sales though.
If kodak dropped, i think other makers would try and crowdfund the saving of the stocks. I’m not a huge color neg fan, but do love me some ektar 100 and lomo color ‘92
Otherwise ill stick with my delta 3200, lady grey, and berlin 400
I don't see them suddenly deciding to stop altogether. There is clearly demand enough for it and they will surely continue to make cinema film for a good while longer. If they suddenly go bankrupt then I'd hope that their film business would be bought and continue going.
Growing up, photography studios and camera catalogues used to be a thing. The culture and curiosity are as important as ‘demand’.
Fujifilm recently started the production of new colour film in Japan
Yeah ive heard that thru a friend in Japan. Supposedly they’re starting to ramp up some film production the last couple weeks and stuff is showing back up on the shelves over there!
Can confirm. I’ve been shooting film in Japan for about a year, so it’s nice to have more film on shelves.
@@nicholasdavidsmith I also saw it online first then checked on online shops here in Europe and they already have Fuji color film back in stock aswell! We won't get the times back, when film was ubiquitous and a necessity. But as a hobby it still has a level of demand. Fuji does still produce Instax film and just announced a new camera, as does Polaroid. That can also only be a "small" part of their revenue. But what I haven't heard in this video: Kodak said they hired hundreds of people to bolster film production. So I don't think they will let it fall any time soon. The Fuji resurgance is the most important to me. They could've easily dropped the ball. ORWO produces only a few weeks a year their current color films (ISO 200 will be added 2024) on the same production line Polaroid uses the rest of the year. That's just one example I know of. It means that there won't be any real "death" of film anytime soon. Even if Kodak would close shop there would be investors buying up their eqiupment like Impossible Project / Polaroid did with ORWOs line a few years back.
IS there more info on this you can link me?
@@metalfingersfilmthere’s some anecdotal evidence on reddit that’s pretty convincing. English speaking posters in Japan have gone to shops and monitored over time (with pics). Fujifilm stocks with new expiration dates have been hitting shelves more frequently in what seems to be batches.
The biggest practical obstacle to color film photography is that 95% of scanning sucks. Color scanning is about 4x harder than B&W scanning. If there were a way to use digital references to calibrate a scan super easliy, maybe some AI can take care of that skillfully someday, we can adapt to more unusual color films. Yes, Kodak's offerings are nearly untouchable excellence sometimes, they are not neutral color balance either.
I think scanning with a dslr at home with software like negative lab pro,
Produces excellent results, especially when compared to Noritsu or Frontier scanning machines.
And scanning at home allows for more adjustment
I see where you’re coming from but I feel like the points you’re making are ones we’ve been living with for years. If anything things are better now than they were 2-3 years ago. There is more reason to be optimistic than there is to be worried based on even the reasons you give in this video. Thanks for continuing to make these appreciate the point of view.
I'm all about black and white myself. Although I have dabbled with making trichromes.
Don't know about Harman, but ADOX or ORWO both produce on Agfa machines and at least for ORWO I know they also work with Agfa recipes and even people who worked for Agfa. Of course you'll never get to Kodak's level again, but ORWO produces in Wolfen at the same site in the 1930s the first photo color film was invented (that's where the US sent photo specialists in and took away patents and even the inventor of the color film to the US).
I am happy that Fuji is back in stock. I think they realized that there is interest. They produce their Instax film, so it's sensible to do a few rounds of "normal" film. ORWO shares the film production line in Wolfen with Polaroid for example. Nothing gets cheaper ever! But having Fujifilm produced by Fuji on a regular basis is important. Then small players with good emulsion recipes and professional coating machines can supplement that at bite of a few percent that at least keeps Kodak on their feet (regarding price and size of their lineup).
As much as I love film photography (and being old enough to have only film at one point), all of these pop-up, off-color film stocks are so uninteresting. Having to rely on 1 color accurate film manufacturer and the ludicrous pricing has certainly played a roll in me going back to shooting digital more. This is also most likely why major camera brands aren't solely interested in doing R&D for a new film camera. We need a few more heroes to step it up in the world of film stocks.
If Kodak goes out of business in film forever, that same obligation to shareholders would require selling the patents required.
Don't forget Agfa color and Agfachrome I used to use it and Kodachrome.
I am also very good in worrying but it does not make the situation any better. The only thing that does help is to live in the moment and enjoy shooting film
I was just thinking about dabbling in film photography.
You should! Jump on in!
Don’t just dabble! Jump in and immerse yourself in film photography!
All valid points. The other side of the coin is aging film camera equipment. We’ll see 2 new film cameras this year but the half frame is pretty much a novelty. The new Rollei with LiDAR seems like a serious effort though. Other than that there’s not a camera company that seems to be interested in film. Even if they just made a new run of their last most popular camera bodies with no changes, it would really boost the market.
Film cannot survive just on old cameras. It needs new cameras. That is why the new Lomomatic 110 is important. But we need new 135 and 120 cameras. New cameras will goose film sales.
Yes a nice 645 or 6x6 medium format film camera would would be amazing. A full frame good quality 35mm film camera would also help, something of the quality of a Nikon FM or Pentax K1000 at affordable prices.
There’s something else that worries me. The cameras we’re using are at best 20 years old. I don’t want to know how many thousands of them die and go forever every single day.
This is the issue as well, we need new full frame 35mm cameras of good quality, something like the Nikon FM. We also need a good 645 or 6x6 medium format film camera maybe like the Pentax 645, Bronica SQ or Fuji Rangefinders. Offer lenses in 35, 50mm, 105mm and 150mm and that’s plenty enough for most photographers. These old cameras and lenses are dying fast. I had a Mamiya RB67 65mm lens fail last fall. There are also issues with electronic cameras of the 1980’s and 1990’s, these electronically controlled shutters are failing. Compound that with the problem of few repair techs and backlogs and waiting times for the techs that can do the work. While it is more expensive, I only buy and use fully mechanical cameras like the Leica M3, Hasselblad 500 C/M and Nikon F2, they can fail but a good one is more serviceable than a older electronic one. I have a minty Nikon F3, it has an electronic shutter, but who knows how much longer it’s going to last.
im shooting with minolta srt series and got few spare bodies to be used as donors in case something fails, very unlikely anyway because they are built like tanks and are 100% mechanical, but yes we do need some manufacturers to release a modern film camera
There's a better chance of Kodachrome coming back than Aerochrome. Film shooters are fortunate that Kodak invested in an entirely new line (building) in the early 90s, with all the modern technology back then. Imagine if they were still running equipment from the mid 20th Century, held together with baler twine and duct tape.
@@thevoiceman6192 That's aerocolor - a color negative film for aerial uses. Aerochrome was an infrared sensitive color reversal film that turned live foliage a funky pink. Used in Vietnam to find places where to unload B52s (among other peaceful uses). US Gubmint has all sorts of digital assets for infrared, so no need for film anymore.
I’d like to start by thanking you for a nice, digestible, and informative video.
I don’t foresee Kodak backing out anytime in the foreseeable future.
Pharma is a big money maker, high initial cost for them, but the rewards are huge. I’ll see if i can spot a rep at the next few trade shows i have to go to.
Regardless, with Mint and Pentax stepping back into the film ring, i think we will see a huge moment that can either really help bring film back and make it cheaper, or send it back on a spiral.
I`d say we need to try to support adox and harman in this. sure they are not perfect, but this is a huge thing for us and they can be improved. I don`t think Kodak will stop producing film as long as there is film demand in hollywood. I have question, why there are no respooled fujifilm like there is from kodak like their vision film?
Fuji quit the cine film market about a decade ago. Every now and then, someone finds a stash and respools it. Atlanta Film Co. had some. They may be out. But still, its expired film now.
This video has been a real eye opener!
When I initially heard the comments from Kodak about continuing to make film until at least 2028, and continuing if there is a demand, I see this as a possible exit strategy for Kodak. Time will only tell, but I really believe that the resurgence by Kodak into the film market was something that that they believed was just a “short term trend” or “hype” and they played along with this not realizing that there is a serious demand for film. The question is, does Kodak set a higher benchmark for demand than what is the actual demand level? Only time will tell, but it is definitely concerning.
Do I think film is dead? No! I do think that black and white film will continue to be manufactured by companies such as Ilford, Foma and Ferrania. I think there is a possibility of companies in China like Shanghai increasing production.
If we lose Kodak, we will definitely lose good quality color and black and white film stocks. If Kodak does keep film manufacturing alive, they most likely continue manufacturing 35mm and possibly discontinue medium and large format.
I can not understand how Kodak would think of discontinuing film when we have companies such as Leica, Fuji and Mint (Rollei) producing 35mm film cameras.
This is definitely interesting.
To add to Fuji point another rumor that started is that Fuji sold there film naming rights to Kodak and Kodak just manufactures Kodak film and puts a Fuji name on it. So yea if Kodak stopped we’d be very screwed
Heard that rumor. But the current new batches of Fujifilm are coming from Japan (at least in Europe) and they of course produce for their own Japanese market aswell. And that market isn't insignificant. So don't panic, the situation is waaaay better than say 3-5 years ago. We have ORWO with soon several color films, we have Harman (with all their expertise in b/w) going into the market and even Adox saw it financially feasible to buy a former Agfa production line to produce color film. That doesn't seem so dire to me at all.
Add to that Kodak hiring 300 people only for film production (as to Kodak's own words) and there really is no reason to freak out. (or hoard film 😉)
@@Focal_Paradox Yeah of course, just thought I mention it as film producers won't think about keeping the prices where they are when their film once on the market gets snatched up in no time everytime LOL But what do you do with a product that is scarce and where you have companies like Fuji that do not openly talk about where they want to take Film in the coming years? I'm a student and have currently 10 rolls as backup. So that might also be hoarding on a very tiny scale.
I’m mainly a black and white shooter so I haven’t been affected as much by Fuji giving up. Acros was nice but not my favorite. Ilford and Foma are still going strong, and there’s also Adox and Ferrania. So the black and white landscape doesn’t look too bad. The last big heartbreak I remember was Plus-X getting the axe and that was a long time ago.
Gone and not coming back, the sad truth as far as I can tell. My favorite color film back in the day (70's and 80's) was Kodachrome 25. Gone. Black&white was and is Tri-X. Held off long as I could then bought a digital camera in 2014. I shoot color digitally and then sometimes a roll of b&w in a Leica I bought in 84. Hate seeing that camera otherwise just sitting there. When and if Kodak finally folds it'll then be Ilford all the way (hopefully) and color will have to be captured with a sensor. I have a friend with foresight who enjoys the film process in the now and has spent $$ to stock up on film and refrigerates it in anticipation of the factories closing.
Thanks for your well prepared and presented video. And, we better get out there and take some more pictures before it's too late!
I actually have a small stock of film, my favorite was Kodachrome, I tried to get a roll to shoot the last roll in 2009, but it was sold out and online auctions wanted crazy prices like 75.00 a roll, now you can find them old useless expired rolls of Kodachrome for next to nothing. I use a Nikon DF digital for most of my color work, and Nikon D800’s for professional work. My film camera is a Leica M3, Hasselblad 500 C/M which mostly gets used with Black and White film. I do think the days of color film is coming to an end.
Christopher Nolan will single handedly keep Eastman Kodak film in production for a long time. He pretty much only shoots film. 50D, 250D, 500T, and double X (cut for IMAX for the very first time for Oppenheimer).
I feel the need to say this, while shooting still on Kodak Vision 3 is cool, it seems like now with a lot of companies selling it with or without remjet, the novelty of shooting on movie film is wearing off. I think we need more options for both consumer grade film and professional grade film
Fuji has actually restarted production on a lot of their film stocks recently. Now its currently in a small scale but they plan to get back into mass production hopefully
The end of the film era is now underway. agony. photographic film in the consumer market has become a fetish, instead of a household need. The industrial production of photographic film is now supported solely by orders from the military and the film industry. but both are in the process of switching to digital, and when that happens, consumer photographic film will die completely, with these 100,500 new producers of photographic film from the garage. The good old cameras are breaking down, there is nothing new. garbage, children's toys with one exposure, which are now being produced under the Kadaka and lomografiya brands, these are not cameras, but children's plastic rattles.
Agreed! I do think Kodak is exiting film production, they saw it as a hype or throwback and a fetish. Old film cameras are bling for the young crowd, that crowd is now moving to old digital pocket cams, they didn’t stick around when prices of film rose, because they were not die hard film photographers, just making snapshots of the local gas stations and mailboxes. I still shoot black and white in my Leica M3 and Hasselblad 500 CM. I know a friend that has about 10,000.00 in old professional film cameras and I told him better be unloading them now before they become expensive paper weights. I think the film renaissance is over, it was from about 2018-2023, the period when film cameras and film hit an all time high. Until someone makes a high quality 35mm camera like a Nikon FM at an affordable price, film photography is going to become closer to extinction.
I don't think the continued extinction of Aerochrome is a good metric for measuring their willingness to ignore the community as there are some very serious technical limitations that are keeping Kodak from bringing it back-- mainly that their emulsion coating light tight rooms are no longer free of ambient infrared light. It would be WAYYYY too expensive for them to build new emulsion depositing tooling just because pink leaves look dope (which they definitely do).
I believe the building they made it in is now a parking or industrial development lot.
I heard recently that Fujifilm has started manufacturing again although it is only being sold in japan.. at least for now hopefully
I don’t think we will ever see another company again making film as good as Kodak. In this digital age, we are very lucky that Kodak is even still going through the difficult process of making film when most people are shooting away on their phones. If film prices continue to rise, then demand for film will slow down. With Fuji releasing cameras like the recent X100VI that does a good job of replicating the look of film, a lot of people will be thinking is film worth it anymore? But I will plow on flying the flag for film for now, but I am one more price rise away from quitting and that Fuji is tempting me more and more.
0:22 Absolutely brilliant reference #OmeletteDuFromage
Dexters lab! Can’t forget it!
3:20 I always thought there were three, Kodak, Fuji and Agfa, but i can't tell how strong Agfa was globaly, just talking about Europe, they seemed to be very popular.
While color film may be new to these two manufacturers these are not new companies, Harman is just a 2005 continuation/re-organization of Ilford which was founded in 1879 and Adox started in 1860 making them both older than Kodak.
People have been saying this for 20 years. 😅
Kodak Eastman has contracts with Kodak Alaris until 2029. So we will have to see what happens then.
There's always bulkloading Fomapan and developing in Caffinol! I'd rather shoot black and white permanently than these weird color films with barely any latitude if kodak decides to pull the plug.
Imagine if film was easy to make. We'd have endless options and it would be cheap.
I find fujifilm at wallmart. But 1 or 2 packages at a time.
Lomography has lomo 800
Harman Phoenix 200 actually has quite good colours. These scans are just badly made.
For the vast majority of people film photography is already dead and buried and confined to history. No one I know uses film. Even digicams are history. All their picture taking is done using smartphones. Film is now a small niche/hobbies market relying on a few remaining manufacturers keeping film production going as long as it makes some sort of profit. After all these companies are not charities.
What a lot of people forget is the following: It took Kodak 80 years to reach the level of Portra. What Adox, Harman or Orwo are doing is basically on the level that was in the 60s. Look at colour negatives from back then, horrible 🤣. I doubt however that they will ever reach the level of 90s colour negative because they don't have the money from the market. Black and white film will stay, for sure. Colour, hmm, yeah, hmm, yeah... Miss Fujifilm Superia and Agfa Vista 😢. At least we still have, for now, Kodak Gold.
ORWO is working with state of film development that ended with Agfa in the late 90s. Several of their chemists worked on Agfa film in the 90s and thus have a more up to date knowledge than one might think. Also they are in R&D phase for ISO 200 film for over 2 years now. So it's not like they look up recipes from the 60s, throw in the chemicals and turn on the machines LOL
I think their NC 500 does a good job at portraying 90s look. Of course that cannot be a substitute for more popping colors an Ultramax 400 delivers, but neither do they want to. There is only a reason to get into a market, that is that highly monopolized by Kodak if you differentiate yourself a bit. And they do that, without going Lomography's way and catering to a specific mood or tone. It's still a film for all shooting opportunities, just reminicent of that time.
@@lelandfitz1762 yup, I think there was a misunderstanding because English is not my first language 😅. What I meant is that they have to relearn things for production that were learned by the big companies already in the 60s. Of course there are still people around that have worked back in the 90s but setting up the machines correctly, getting everything to work properly, takes time and money. Plus, some chemicals used back then are probably no longer allowed. Polaroid had the same problem and it took them 10 years, despite having the original machines and people, to get a formula that is close to Polaroid's formula from the 80s.
P.S. Isn't NC500 the same film as Lomography Color 92? It appears to be it 🤔
@@thomasa.243 Yeah, I don't know what the issue with Polaroid was IF they really had the correct recipes the original Polaroid company had in addition to the machines they bought up.
The new Polaroid however does work with said coating machines once used for "normal" photo film that they now share with ORWO, in the one case I mentioned. So I guess there had to be innovation on their part to start making instant film in a production line that once made the usual negative film.
Regarding Lomography I don't know. And that's a problem I have with lots of film "brands" rather than producers. We have some brands and only really a small amount of producers. That's why I like when media and TH-camrs in the field take those more seriously that actually do the whole process themselves. There are some out there that are open with what they are working with and what they change up to become their "flavor" of film like Cinetstill does. Lomography sadly isn't open about where their film comes from. But that fits their whole approach to photography. Questions like that don't interest the usual Lomo photographer. I know of their 92 film and it could be that they buy a batch off of ORWO. But if they do they do so in secret and ORWO isn't allowed to talk about it. I just know that ORWO is open about using Agfa/ORWO equipment that is now owned by Polaroid for several weeks a year where Polaroid in the rest of the year produces it's instant film. ORWO didn't give any information about how much film they produce to be re-branded later or if at all.
@@lelandfitz1762 I remember a documentary on Arte TV channel (French/German/Pan European, in case you don't know) from back in the days when the Impossible Project had announced their first film. They said something like: "Polaroid has used chemicals that are forbidden since the late 90s. But due to them still producing film, they were allowed to still use them. Replacing them is not as easy as one might think because it means not only replacing a single component but completely redesigning it from scratch." They also hinted at that being the reason that Polaroid has stopped producing film. They bought the last batch of chemicals, produced the last batch of film and then thought that it will last well into the 2010s. But people bought more than expected and redesigning the film was not feasible for Polaroid.