Advantages that treadmill brings to me: 1) You can run uphill as long as you wish and as steep as you wish. 2) You don't need to run downhill - which is good when you are injured and trying to avoid impacts. 3) You can easily check economy of your style - set constant tempo, trying various styles of running (longer steps, shorter steps, etc.) and see what is easier. Doing this outside is problmatic beacause you cannot be sure you are running in constant pace. 4) You can train "holding given pace" eg in tempo runs. 5) The "track" is absolutely flat, no sideways slope, no rocks, etc. and also no curves as on the stadium. :-) But - running in the nature is much better enjoyment...
I enjoy using a treadmill for recovery runs, it prevents me from picking up the pace subconsciously. I set the treadmill at a pace where I can keep a low heart rate and do the classic "set it and forget it"
There are 2 huge advantage of treadmill over outdoor running. 1) It is easier on my knees. 2) I can get in zone 2 consistently since the pace is controlled. The main disadvantage of treadmill is that it is extremely boring.
I did a 5k on a treadmill yesterday as it was icy outside. I was a minute faster than my last test a few months ago, but that was outside. I was wondering if I was faster because of the mill? It was really horrible - psychologically, just feels really tough as no opportunity for rest. Looking back, my HR was higher on the treadmill than when I did the 5k outside. I guess I'm hoping that I have actually got fitter and the treadmill isnt just easier!
Just love you. Inspirational and motivating, after nearly 2 years of wanting to run again and having a treadmill at home you have just made me JUST DO IT. Thank you so much.
Good video. I was always told that treadmill is too easy and it's motor does most of the work. I never felt that way, but it was good to corroborate that feeling with the data backed analysis.
I had no preconceived notions, started running in 2009 and did so for six months exclusively on a treadmill. On the treadmill, I could easily do a 5K in about 25 minutes. My first race was in a month I went outdoors to the track to do a 5K in 25 minutes. It was exhausting, and I had to stop midway through, it felt much more difficult and it definitely wasn't psychological.
Had the same experience. I just started going to the gym so my cardio was garbage. I could manage a mile on a treadmill. Once at the park at the trail I couldnt do half a mile. Then back at the gym again ran a mile with relative ease. Plus, how do you explain the feeling you get once you get off a treadmill and walk and feel like you're getting pulled forward.
I have the same issue. How did you over feeling exhausted running outside. I can run for long and at pace on treadmill but take it outside can't even last 5mins. The terrain is pretty flat but road running.
Regarding injury risk, what about the cushioning effect of a treadmill? The impact forces are considerably reduced because of the rubber cushions under the treadmill bed. I suffer from recurring mild soleus strains (10+ times in the past 5 years) but not once has this happened on a treadmill, even at 4min/km pace and faster. I know that when I'm recovering from the latest strain if I dare take a step onto the hard concrete then after a couple of miles I'll be straight back to square one, whereas on the treadmill I can go pretty much for as long as I want without the constant anxiety of getting injured.
I find treadmills easier mainly because it keeps my pace in check for me. I tend to go out too fast at the beginning of my runs. The treadmill helps me control that. However, I do prefer to run outdoors.
I run about 5 times a week. I prefer to run outside which I do for about 6 months a year and the other 6 months I use a treadmill so it's really evenly split. I've been doing that for 17+ years. My experience is that you can't translate a certain treadmill performance to running outside. I'm always a bit faster on the treadmill than outside. This is whay I only compare my treadmill sessions to other treadmill sessions and my outdoor sessions to other outdoor sessions. As pointed out in the video, there are a couple of differences: - The lack of air resistance makes you faster on the treadmill. - The lack of air flow on a treadmill makes you sweat more (and should make you a bit slower). - Outside tracks are never perfectly flat and even. Every small slope or curve makes you a bit slower. Bridges are killers. - Interval sessions on a treadmill are tough as you can't subconsciously get slower over time. The treadmill acts as a peronal trainer that always insists to keep the pace ;-) - Long runs at constant pace on a treadmill are terribly boring. Can't say that for outdoor runs, those are always a joy. - Having that said, a treadmill is quite a good machine and you can get a good training effect.
On the treadmill I nearly always use the hill run setting so that there is a continual change in the surface. You can also change from midfoot to forefoot to heal strike to reduce repetitive injury. I would love it if my gym had a treadmill that had a downhill option.
I’d always rather be outside.. but I just haven’t got the continuous hills I need.. now if only my gym had those fancy negative incline (decline?) treadmills that the pros have.. it’s the long non stop downhills I don’t get enough training on. I can jog up the mountains, it’s coming back down that’s the killer. Think you should do a report on how pointless it is to incline the treadmill and then hold on to the handle so your perpendicular to the treadmill again.. that I see so often in my local gym. Literally if they let go, they’d fly off backwards..
Thank you for these videos, they are great! My own experience on T/M vs outside is mixed. Back in the mists of time when I wasn't in my late fifties, I did "5K" on a T/M (without incline) in 16.15 when my fastest road 5K was 16.48. I simply couldn't have done 16.15 on the road. I suppose that, at that pace, we are in the zone where air resistance makes a difference. I suspect it is also an issue of calibration of the T/M. I have run on other T/Ms where I struggled to achieve or maintain a speed I could do relatively easily on the track, which I imagine is likely again an issue of calibration. These are T/Ms in commercial gyms, and I don't know how reliable calibration is likely to be.
Running on the treadmill definately seems easier when I've tried doing the same run outside, at least the treadmill I have at home. I have a suspision that the band actually moves a little slower than the treadmill says. There's an auidble increase in in pitch from the motor when I take my feet of the band.
I have my own treadmill in the basement and, when the weather sucks or it's just really dark, I like to run on it. My biggest problem was/is that you can calibrate a treadmill. The more I looked into it, the more complicated it became. "Who measures a lot, measures a lot of nonsense". I'm not the first person to look into this problem. There are pages and pages of descriptions on how to measure the right speed. And in the end, there are a few different ways of looking at it. I use a Stryd Foodpod and have an offset of about 5% there. So it feels(to me) similar to outside. One factor why it can even feel harder to run on a treadmill is the lack of wind to cool. When I run 60 min on the treadmill at a moderate speed, I sweat more than when I run outside. I have a fan but somehow it is not the same. Oh well, because I have no hills in the area, I also do my hill runs on the treadmill.
Find your style and format of presenting pedagogical, such at showing how running is not like pushing a car (1:41). Even more helpful would have some of the science/data behind it in case of doubt or just to dive deeper (perhaps at least as links). Following your videos I link topics such as elasticity, vertical oscillation and efficiency. Sincere thanks!
Hi Fredrik! Thank you so much for all your videos! I love them and the way you analyze. I have a topic idea to suggest for next videos: foot landing in front of each other on an imaginary line below your center of mass. I tried to research it a little bit, but only found contradictory opinions. I was wondering about it because I saw footage of pro runners like Eliud Kipchoge or Stephen Scullion that have this kind of landing. Please help enlighten us!
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Nice, I recently started look for research or knowledge about this. There isn't much out there. IMO, I think it depends on speed. If you run slow, it will be awkward to move the feet around, sidewise, so as to hit a straight line. If you run very fast, e.g. sprinting, notice how the knee bends sharply and the foot gets much higher when moving it from the back to the front. This makes it easier to hit a straight line. I think landing with the feet too "wide" is bad (obviously). It will introduce side-wise forces. When sprinting, the force that the feet hit the ground is much higher, which makes this "problem" more important. Also, IMO, I don't think it is a general big problem for runners today. That is, I think it is easy to find a natural way to run just as "wide" as is good for you. Compared to stride length, where a lot can be said how to improve. However, I don't know for sure.
For me it is a lot harder to run on treadmill, and I don't agree that its in my head. I am pretty sure it is because of the difference in temperature. The gym I run in is always pretty warm and humid. Also as there is no air flow, so it gets a lot warmer from that fact as well. Sure there are some very very small air propellers, but I have to put my hand in front of them to even feel them at all.
Note that each percent of incline adds about 5.8% to power consumption according to the best research, which is like the air resistance from running at 4:XX/mile in still air. It's also worth noting that the power consumption outdoors varies by this sort of amount depending on wind conditions, misleading pace-based outdoors runners every day of the week!
@@MTBEAST007 I like your confidence. Why bother with well-controlled studies when I can get your guarantees on how things are in the real world 😀. I'm not saying you're wrong. As I mention in the video, factors like wind, surface, curves, etc. can of course affect energy consumption. Since you are also running so fast, you are also affected by wind resistance, as I mentioned in the video. This means that for you and your fast friends, the lack of wind resistance makes it easier on the treadmill than outside. But for more normal recreational runners, it's rarely a factor to be reckoned with.
@SpringSnabbare what you dont seem to grasp is i said "my treadmill". I cant speak for others. You haven't studied every treadmill. They are all different so your well controlled studies cant really be accurate. One thing i do notice on a treadmill is you can stay on it and push yourself to a place you can't when outside. Add that to the perfect pacing and it makes you faster on my treadmill. However, it doesnt account for a 2 minute difference.
Thank you for the informative video. By the way, what's the reason for the higher hamstring (and less ankle) use on a treadmill compared to outdoor running?
I have recently also realized that it's bouncing, joints flexing and then quickly extending (hip, knee, ankle), that is the engine of running. The question for me is how to recognize when I am doing other weird things detracting from this efficiency.
I have an issue. I can run long 40-50 mins on the treadmill without stopping or getting too tired. But once i take it to the road (first time) i can only do 5mins. I feel alot more fatigued and exhausted and i can feel the road vibrations (foot pounding the floor) alot more than when im on the treadmill. It cant be this bad transitioning from treadmill to road running.
The reason the motor does nothing to help is because of relativity. Standing on a constant velocity belt is the same as standing on a constant velocity train: from your perspective, it's as if the belt isn't moving. To the people who say treadmills are easier, try actually running on a treadmill. Try breaking your own outdoor records by 10%.
They probably don't run on a flat enough road and maybe have a lot more variation in their pace when running outside, which may let them feel more tired, but if they could do it in similar conditions they would see that there's not that much difference. Also there's the temperature/humidity difference and the fact that outside your sweat evaporates faster.
I find treadmill runs significantly harder and sweat a lot more compared to running outdoors. My theory is that because the treadmill remains in roughly the same body of air, this air is saturated quickly with evaporated sweat making it more humid, whereas there is always "new" air for the sweat to evaporate into wheb moving outside.
Feel like there is better energy return running on pavement. Also don’t think treadmill settings are accurate. Stryd pod suggests the treadmill overestimates my performance - which I tend to believe more than the treadmill
i've always found treadmill slightly faster. but for me, i think that is more about pace control. my 5k time are about 20s different between the two. i would love to get a track time for comparison too
I have a question--I'd be very grateful for your perspective/answer. Recently, I've performed 90+% of my training indoors on the treadmill. I do my best to track the pace, distance, and running power output via a next-gen Stryd footpod for as much consistency as possible. That said, all of my races are indeed on the road and I often worry that my reliance on the treadmill for my training block will hinder my race day performance. I do tend to get at least one 60+minute run outdoors at varying paces each week. However, nearly all of my threshold workouts are performed on the treadmill for consistency and control. Do you think it's totally fine to perform the majority of training indoors in preparation for outdoor races? Do you believe that the majority indoor training will still translate to near-optimal progress in outdoor road races?
I worked about the same thing, being a trail runner stuck in a treadmill through the king winters. Then I saw an interview with an incredible ultra runner who did maybe 95% of her training on a treadmill, and KILLED her race. If it worked for her, it's good enough for me!
When i use a treadmill I usually set 0,5 or 1% incline, not to compensate at all but because it seems (for me) that the impact is not as hard (and less noisy). Is it a bad idea ?
I find I workout harder outside vs on the treadmill. The motor on the treadmill helps propel my feet whereas I feel the effect of gravity more running outside and my muscles work harder to keep my body in motion
They are really good for training sprint running. It is easy to accelerate very quickly and the running technique is often a bit more similar to that used when sprinting. On the other hand, I have seen many (who are not sprinters) who start to overstrike more on that type of treadmill as they do not come up the "hill" with their body but stretch their feet forward to get them where it inclines as they gain momentum on the treadmill.
Yeah, running on a Treadmill is all in my head because I find it sooo boring that I avoid it at all costs. The only reason to go on a treadmill is when the air quality is bad due to wild fires in SoCal.
I think I get less injuries running on a treadmill because on a treadmill I’m more in tune with my body. Running variables are less so it’s easier to weed out a culprit.
What does it mean if my HR is significantly higher on the treadmill compared to running outside at the same pace? Could that be related to the lack of cooling?
It can definitely be about cooling. It may also be that you run a little differently on a treadmill than outside, especially if you normally do a lot of trail running. It's not uncommon for runners to run well in the forest but change the way they run when they run on tarmac or a treadmill. And then that change can be the reason why it costs more energy on the treadmill. Or maybe you're just stressed out because running on a treadmill is so incredibly boring 😃
I've tested on myself recently and over the years and found for stuff like 8x1k with 2 mins recovery I'm virtually identical to a track session of the same
How your foot lands doesn’t matter. Heel strike, mid, or forefoot. Do whatever is your natural strike. Lots of elite marathon runners have heel strikes.
I had the same issue when I started to run more regularly. I need to massage my calves 5-10mins before starting my run. To get the blood flowing.. Also, increasing pace slowly, maybe do 1-2km on a 2min/km slower pace.
This is simple; the earth moves...the threadmill surface moves...relativity says there then is no difference although the surface of the threadmill moves relative to your floor.
Actually, running on a treadmill can be harder. A lot of energy us used by our bodies to expell heat, and if you run inside in still, warm air it can easily cost more enegy than running outside in the breeze. But the best way to check this is with your heart rate, at least for aerobic efforts. Heart rate directly corresponds to amount of energy used by your body (for aerobic efforts). If your heart rate is same when running inside and outside then the effort is also the same.
But it can also be the case that it is very cool with good ventilation in the room where the treadmill is at the same time as it is very hot outside and then it is easier on the treadmill. Quite a strange statement when you add a circumstance that can fit in both on the treadmill and outside. It's a bit like saying "It's harder to run outdoors as there can be wild dogs with rabies chasing me, then I have to run really fast and it's much harder.
If you weigh 100kg, and run on some cheap treadmills, the track comes to a virtual standstill with each footfall.... From band stretch, slip against rollers, or rollers too light to not be slowed down a bit. Your body can end up learning to game the machine, by actively braking the band, rather than just running. Probably not a technique you want to emphasise. Even many commercial gym treadmills, aren't completely immune to a bit of slow-down-speed-up for heavier runners. Another artificiality, is the way many treadmills do suspension: Some can be more like running on a springboard, or suspension bridge, than anything resembling naturally occurring surfaces. Some have slightly flexible running boards, which are fixed at the sides. Leading to running in a bit of a gutter. Nothing obviously excessive, but for people who already struggles with overpronation, it does not help. Since you work with Olympians, in a frozen country; where I suppose more miles are ran on treadmills vs outside than in most, on account of weather; I'm sure your treadmills do not suffer from any anomalies like that. But lots of the treadmills available out there, while lots better than 80s and 90s ones, are still not quite "olympian grade." While the ones that are, can cost more than an entire winter's worth of room and board, somewhere in Kenya....
Treadmill running is incredibly stupid in that it robs you of having an amazing experience outdoors instead of inside where you are likely to be way too many hours anyway.
In principle, I agree with you. But it may be that you, like me, live in a country where it gets very cold and dark and lots of ice for several months a year. Not easy to run hard intervals with many degrees below zero and there is ice everywhere. If you live where it's flat and are running a race in a mountain, treadmills are excellent as you can run on extremely long uphill runs. I also know many women who do not feel safe running outside when it is dark. Where I live, the sun rises after nine and sets before three in the afternoon when it is darkest. If you have a job during regular office hours, it will be pitch black before you start and when you finish work. That's when the treadmill can be a safe alternative.
I have to disagree on the energy use being the same running outside vs on a treadmill - running outside is not simply bouncing, you do have to push yourself along. It's weird that you say that but then also accept that the treadmill causes less hamstring activation and more calf/ankle activation
Hi, what is the difference between bounce and push? Isn't boucing also little bit of pushing? And I think that walking on the treadmill is in principle the same as walking outside - even there is no bouncing here...
@@honza1859 the bounce he's referring to is the energy stored in your Achilles tendon and possibly the stretch reflex when your muscle (whether calf or hamstring) quickly switches from eccentric to concentric contraction - you still get both of those effects when walking. But my point is that we aren't perpetual motion machines, you still have to put some energy in and on a treadmill you don't have to push yourself forwards whereas on stationary ground (i.e. outside) you definitely have to, something he seems to acknowledge when accepting the difference in muscle activity between the hamstring and calf on the treadmill vs outside forms of the exercise. I can maintain the same pace on a treadmill for an hour straight, outside I can run maybe a few hundred metres before my heart rate is approaching maximum and I have to slow to a walk to recover - there's definitely a difference, at least in my running experience
That said I do want to thank him for breaking me out of the misconceptions I had developed from watching other content - the 180 cadence myth, the lean, the avoidance of up/down motion, and especially the advice about keeping your feet close to the ground. His content is really useful
@nicolaslittle8154, it just ain't so (except for the air resistance). A guy called Newton worked this out a while back. The average force a runner exerts at constant velocity perfectly balances gravity + air resistance (and the latter is usually a small percentage of the former).
I do not know how anybody would think that a treadmill is different than normal running, if you have done both lol. Try timing a real distance, suddenly you will realize that you are doing just as fast of a mile, any difference is going to typically be based on the treadmill not being an exact machine.
Advantages that treadmill brings to me:
1) You can run uphill as long as you wish and as steep as you wish.
2) You don't need to run downhill - which is good when you are injured and trying to avoid impacts.
3) You can easily check economy of your style - set constant tempo, trying various styles of running (longer steps, shorter steps, etc.) and see what is easier. Doing this outside is problmatic beacause you cannot be sure you are running in constant pace.
4) You can train "holding given pace" eg in tempo runs.
5) The "track" is absolutely flat, no sideways slope, no rocks, etc. and also no curves as on the stadium. :-)
But - running in the nature is much better enjoyment...
I enjoy using a treadmill for recovery runs, it prevents me from picking up the pace subconsciously. I set the treadmill at a pace where I can keep a low heart rate and do the classic "set it and forget it"
Haha. Me too. Good strategy.
There are 2 huge advantage of treadmill over outdoor running. 1) It is easier on my knees. 2) I can get in zone 2 consistently since the pace is controlled. The main disadvantage of treadmill is that it is extremely boring.
There's always EDM (my personal solution to the boredom ;) )
I did a 5k on a treadmill yesterday as it was icy outside. I was a minute faster than my last test a few months ago, but that was outside. I was wondering if I was faster because of the mill? It was really horrible - psychologically, just feels really tough as no opportunity for rest. Looking back, my HR was higher on the treadmill than when I did the 5k outside. I guess I'm hoping that I have actually got fitter and the treadmill isnt just easier!
Just love you. Inspirational and motivating, after nearly 2 years of wanting to run again and having a treadmill at home you have just made me JUST DO IT. Thank you so much.
Good video. I was always told that treadmill is too easy and it's motor does most of the work. I never felt that way, but it was good to corroborate that feeling with the data backed analysis.
I had no preconceived notions, started running in 2009 and did so for six months exclusively on a treadmill. On the treadmill, I could easily do a 5K in about 25 minutes. My first race was in a month I went outdoors to the track to do a 5K in 25 minutes. It was exhausting, and I had to stop midway through, it felt much more difficult and it definitely wasn't psychological.
Maybe outdoors wasn't very flat? Inclines can have a significant effect.
Had the same experience. I just started going to the gym so my cardio was garbage. I could manage a mile on a treadmill. Once at the park at the trail I couldnt do half a mile. Then back at the gym again ran a mile with relative ease.
Plus, how do you explain the feeling you get once you get off a treadmill and walk and feel like you're getting pulled forward.
@@bored.in.california2111never had that feeling
I have the same issue. How did you over feeling exhausted running outside. I can run for long and at pace on treadmill but take it outside can't even last 5mins. The terrain is pretty flat but road running.
@@bored.in.california2111Yep all of is happening to me now.
Easily the best video iv seen on this, thanks heaps.
Regarding injury risk, what about the cushioning effect of a treadmill? The impact forces are considerably reduced because of the rubber cushions under the treadmill bed. I suffer from recurring mild soleus strains (10+ times in the past 5 years) but not once has this happened on a treadmill, even at 4min/km pace and faster. I know that when I'm recovering from the latest strain if I dare take a step onto the hard concrete then after a couple of miles I'll be straight back to square one, whereas on the treadmill I can go pretty much for as long as I want without the constant anxiety of getting injured.
Exact same for me.
Yep, can’t believe he didn’t mention this. Massive benefit for treadmill running. Concrete has zero give in it.
Have you tried the trails? My body- and mind- can't handle roads and tracks.
I find treadmills easier mainly because it keeps my pace in check for me. I tend to go out too fast at the beginning of my runs. The treadmill helps me control that. However, I do prefer to run outdoors.
I run about 5 times a week. I prefer to run outside which I do for about 6 months a year and the other 6 months I use a treadmill so it's really evenly split. I've been doing that for 17+ years. My experience is that you can't translate a certain treadmill performance to running outside. I'm always a bit faster on the treadmill than outside. This is whay I only compare my treadmill sessions to other treadmill sessions and my outdoor sessions to other outdoor sessions. As pointed out in the video, there are a couple of differences:
- The lack of air resistance makes you faster on the treadmill.
- The lack of air flow on a treadmill makes you sweat more (and should make you a bit slower).
- Outside tracks are never perfectly flat and even. Every small slope or curve makes you a bit slower. Bridges are killers.
- Interval sessions on a treadmill are tough as you can't subconsciously get slower over time. The treadmill acts as a peronal trainer that always insists to keep the pace ;-)
- Long runs at constant pace on a treadmill are terribly boring. Can't say that for outdoor runs, those are always a joy.
- Having that said, a treadmill is quite a good machine and you can get a good training effect.
On the treadmill I nearly always use the hill run setting so that there is a continual change in the surface. You can also change from midfoot to forefoot to heal strike to reduce repetitive injury. I would love it if my gym had a treadmill that had a downhill option.
I’d always rather be outside.. but I just haven’t got the continuous hills I need.. now if only my gym had those fancy negative incline (decline?) treadmills that the pros have.. it’s the long non stop downhills I don’t get enough training on. I can jog up the mountains, it’s coming back down that’s the killer.
Think you should do a report on how pointless it is to incline the treadmill and then hold on to the handle so your perpendicular to the treadmill again.. that I see so often in my local gym. Literally if they let go, they’d fly off backwards..
Thank you for these videos, they are great!
My own experience on T/M vs outside is mixed. Back in the mists of time when I wasn't in my late fifties, I did "5K" on a T/M (without incline) in 16.15 when my fastest road 5K was 16.48. I simply couldn't have done 16.15 on the road.
I suppose that, at that pace, we are in the zone where air resistance makes a difference.
I suspect it is also an issue of calibration of the T/M. I have run on other T/Ms where I struggled to achieve or maintain a speed I could do relatively easily on the track, which I imagine is likely again an issue of calibration. These are T/Ms in commercial gyms, and I don't know how reliable calibration is likely to be.
Running on the treadmill definately seems easier when I've tried doing the same run outside, at least the treadmill I have at home. I have a suspision that the band actually moves a little slower than the treadmill says. There's an auidble increase in in pitch from the motor when I take my feet of the band.
I have my own treadmill in the basement and, when the weather sucks or it's just really dark, I like to run on it.
My biggest problem was/is that you can calibrate a treadmill.
The more I looked into it, the more complicated it became.
"Who measures a lot, measures a lot of nonsense".
I'm not the first person to look into this problem. There are pages and pages of descriptions on how to measure the right speed. And in the end, there are a few different ways of looking at it.
I use a Stryd Foodpod and have an offset of about 5% there.
So it feels(to me) similar to outside.
One factor why it can even feel harder to run on a treadmill is the lack of wind to cool. When I run 60 min on the treadmill at a moderate speed, I sweat more than when I run outside. I have a fan but somehow it is not the same.
Oh well, because I have no hills in the area, I also do my hill runs on the treadmill.
very informative video and i really enjoyed the presentation of it! good job!!! love from india
Find your style and format of presenting pedagogical, such at showing how running is not like pushing a car (1:41). Even more helpful would have some of the science/data behind it in case of doubt or just to dive deeper (perhaps at least as links). Following your videos I link topics such as elasticity, vertical oscillation and efficiency. Sincere thanks!
Hi Fredrik! Thank you so much for all your videos! I love them and the way you analyze.
I have a topic idea to suggest for next videos: foot landing in front of each other on an imaginary line below your center of mass.
I tried to research it a little bit, but only found contradictory opinions.
I was wondering about it because I saw footage of pro runners like Eliud Kipchoge or Stephen Scullion that have this kind of landing.
Please help enlighten us!
Nice, I recently started look for research or knowledge about this. There isn't much out there.
IMO, I think it depends on speed. If you run slow, it will be awkward to move the feet around, sidewise, so as to hit a straight line.
If you run very fast, e.g. sprinting, notice how the knee bends sharply and the foot gets much higher when moving it from the back to the front. This makes it easier to hit a straight line. I think landing with the feet too "wide" is bad (obviously). It will introduce side-wise forces. When sprinting, the force that the feet hit the ground is much higher, which makes this "problem" more important.
Also, IMO, I don't think it is a general big problem for runners today. That is, I think it is easy to find a natural way to run just as "wide" as is good for you. Compared to stride length, where a lot can be said how to improve. However, I don't know for sure.
For me it is a lot harder to run on treadmill, and I don't agree that its in my head.
I am pretty sure it is because of the difference in temperature.
The gym I run in is always pretty warm and humid. Also as there is no air flow, so it gets a lot warmer from that fact as well.
Sure there are some very very small air propellers, but I have to put my hand in front of them to even feel them at all.
That being said, I enjoy the treadmill as my knee's almost always feel fine after.
Note that each percent of incline adds about 5.8% to power consumption according to the best research, which is like the air resistance from running at 4:XX/mile in still air. It's also worth noting that the power consumption outdoors varies by this sort of amount depending on wind conditions, misleading pace-based outdoors runners every day of the week!
Do you mean that running with the treadmill on a 2% incline will be almost 12% harder than flat? That sounds like a lot more than I would have thought
Thanks for this, been having issues running outdoors whereas on treadmill I can do am hr nonstop.
My best 5k time on a calibrated treadmill is 16:21. Outside on a virtually flat 3 mile loop, 18:15. My TM is WAY easier.
So it can be for you. Which doesn't mean it's like that for everyone. Congrats on the fast 5k times, by the way!
I guarantee every able bodied runner will be faster on my treadmill than outside. I dont know why though.
@@MTBEAST007 I like your confidence. Why bother with well-controlled studies when I can get your guarantees on how things are in the real world 😀. I'm not saying you're wrong. As I mention in the video, factors like wind, surface, curves, etc. can of course affect energy consumption. Since you are also running so fast, you are also affected by wind resistance, as I mentioned in the video. This means that for you and your fast friends, the lack of wind resistance makes it easier on the treadmill than outside. But for more normal recreational runners, it's rarely a factor to be reckoned with.
@SpringSnabbare what you dont seem to grasp is i said "my treadmill". I cant speak for others. You haven't studied every treadmill. They are all different so your well controlled studies cant really be accurate. One thing i do notice on a treadmill is you can stay on it and push yourself to a place you can't when outside. Add that to the perfect pacing and it makes you faster on my treadmill. However, it doesnt account for a 2 minute difference.
@@MTBEAST007 are you setting your treadmill on an incline or flat?
Thank you for the informative video. By the way, what's the reason for the higher hamstring (and less ankle) use on a treadmill compared to outdoor running?
I have recently also realized that it's bouncing, joints flexing and then quickly extending (hip, knee, ankle), that is the engine of running.
The question for me is how to recognize when I am doing other weird things detracting from this efficiency.
Intressant ämne. Jag har upplevt raka motsatsen gällande baksida lår. Jag har haft mer problem med baksida lår på löpband.
Thank you again!
I have an issue. I can run long 40-50 mins on the treadmill without stopping or getting too tired. But once i take it to the road (first time) i can only do 5mins. I feel alot more fatigued and exhausted and i can feel the road vibrations (foot pounding the floor) alot more than when im on the treadmill. It cant be this bad transitioning from treadmill to road running.
The reason the motor does nothing to help is because of relativity. Standing on a constant velocity belt is the same as standing on a constant velocity train: from your perspective, it's as if the belt isn't moving. To the people who say treadmills are easier, try actually running on a treadmill. Try breaking your own outdoor records by 10%.
They probably don't run on a flat enough road and maybe have a lot more variation in their pace when running outside, which may let them feel more tired, but if they could do it in similar conditions they would see that there's not that much difference. Also there's the temperature/humidity difference and the fact that outside your sweat evaporates faster.
I find treadmill runs significantly harder and sweat a lot more compared to running outdoors.
My theory is that because the treadmill remains in roughly the same body of air, this air is saturated quickly with evaporated sweat making it more humid, whereas there is always "new" air for the sweat to evaporate into wheb moving outside.
Yes, air movement is extremely important for evaporative cooling.
Use a fan.
I thought I was the only one finding it significantly harder to run on a treadmill. Would a big cooling fan help?
My experience is exactly the opposite I can beat my 5K, personal best easily on a treadmill.
Feel like there is better energy return running on pavement. Also don’t think treadmill settings are accurate. Stryd pod suggests the treadmill overestimates my performance - which I tend to believe more than the treadmill
What about cooling? Is that a factor? Do you sweat more inside? Just wondering if RPE is normaly bigger indoors vs outdoors
i've always found treadmill slightly faster. but for me, i think that is more about pace control. my 5k time are about 20s different between the two. i would love to get a track time for comparison too
I have a question--I'd be very grateful for your perspective/answer. Recently, I've performed 90+% of my training indoors on the treadmill. I do my best to track the pace, distance, and running power output via a next-gen Stryd footpod for as much consistency as possible. That said, all of my races are indeed on the road and I often worry that my reliance on the treadmill for my training block will hinder my race day performance. I do tend to get at least one 60+minute run outdoors at varying paces each week. However, nearly all of my threshold workouts are performed on the treadmill for consistency and control.
Do you think it's totally fine to perform the majority of training indoors in preparation for outdoor races? Do you believe that the majority indoor training will still translate to near-optimal progress in outdoor road races?
I worked about the same thing, being a trail runner stuck in a treadmill through the king winters. Then I saw an interview with an incredible ultra runner who did maybe 95% of her training on a treadmill, and KILLED her race. If it worked for her, it's good enough for me!
I got Achilles Tendonitis from Running on Treadmill. Any way to prevent it from happening again? 🤔
When i use a treadmill I usually set 0,5 or 1% incline, not to compensate at all but because it seems (for me) that the impact is not as hard (and less noisy). Is it a bad idea ?
I think - impact will not be too hard but your push off must be harder to compensate that inline... But maybe I am wrong.
Would running at a slight incline help compensate for the slightly lower posterior muscle involvement?
I find I workout harder outside vs on the treadmill. The motor on the treadmill helps propel my feet whereas I feel the effect of gravity more running outside and my muscles work harder to keep my body in motion
Loads of us run faster than 4.21...what is the formula for incline vs speed/ km???
Good question!
What are your thoughts a a manual curved treadmill like the Trueform? Is it any better than a regular treadmill with incline function?
They are really good for training sprint running. It is easy to accelerate very quickly and the running technique is often a bit more similar to that used when sprinting. On the other hand, I have seen many (who are not sprinters) who start to overstrike more on that type of treadmill as they do not come up the "hill" with their body but stretch their feet forward to get them where it inclines as they gain momentum on the treadmill.
@@SpringSnabbare Thanks and that confirms my thinking. When I ran on a Trueform, my feet would extend out then paw back.
I would like to add the climate. The heat inside makes it a bit harder. 😊
Not in Singapore!
Yeah, running on a Treadmill is all in my head because I find it sooo boring that I avoid it at all costs. The only reason to go on a treadmill is when the air quality is bad due to wild fires in SoCal.
I think I get less injuries running on a treadmill because on a treadmill I’m more in tune with my body. Running variables are less so it’s easier to weed out a culprit.
What does it mean if my HR is significantly higher on the treadmill compared to running outside at the same pace? Could that be related to the lack of cooling?
It can definitely be about cooling. It may also be that you run a little differently on a treadmill than outside, especially if you normally do a lot of trail running. It's not uncommon for runners to run well in the forest but change the way they run when they run on tarmac or a treadmill. And then that change can be the reason why it costs more energy on the treadmill. Or maybe you're just stressed out because running on a treadmill is so incredibly boring 😃
I've tested on myself recently and over the years and found for stuff like 8x1k with 2 mins recovery I'm virtually identical to a track session of the same
i struggle more with the balance on a treadmill than running outside
My calves always start to fatigue first no matter where I run. I think I'm landing mid foot or a little forefoot. Not 100% sure. Any tips on that?
How your foot lands doesn’t matter. Heel strike, mid, or forefoot. Do whatever is your natural strike. Lots of elite marathon runners have heel strikes.
I had the same issue when I started to run more regularly. I need to massage my calves 5-10mins before starting my run. To get the blood flowing..
Also, increasing pace slowly, maybe do 1-2km on a 2min/km slower pace.
Stair over calve raises.
Nice!!
I've flopped down on the treadmill before, it's so constraining.
This is simple; the earth moves...the threadmill surface moves...relativity says there then is no difference although the surface of the threadmill moves relative to your floor.
Actually, running on a treadmill can be harder. A lot of energy us used by our bodies to expell heat, and if you run inside in still, warm air it can easily cost more enegy than running outside in the breeze.
But the best way to check this is with your heart rate, at least for aerobic efforts. Heart rate directly corresponds to amount of energy used by your body (for aerobic efforts). If your heart rate is same when running inside and outside then the effort is also the same.
But it can also be the case that it is very cool with good ventilation in the room where the treadmill is at the same time as it is very hot outside and then it is easier on the treadmill. Quite a strange statement when you add a circumstance that can fit in both on the treadmill and outside. It's a bit like saying "It's harder to run outdoors as there can be wild dogs with rabies chasing me, then I have to run really fast and it's much harder.
I just PB’d on a treadmill. Does it count then 🤔
Only races count. But its good to know where you are so you can adjust your training on it
ı try to find correct running style
DAMN, i run exactly at 7 min mile, for now.
If you weigh 100kg, and run on some cheap treadmills, the track comes to a virtual standstill with each footfall.... From band stretch, slip against rollers, or rollers too light to not be slowed down a bit. Your body can end up learning to game the machine, by actively braking the band, rather than just running. Probably not a technique you want to emphasise.
Even many commercial gym treadmills, aren't completely immune to a bit of slow-down-speed-up for heavier runners.
Another artificiality, is the way many treadmills do suspension: Some can be more like running on a springboard, or suspension bridge, than anything resembling naturally occurring surfaces. Some have slightly flexible running boards, which are fixed at the sides. Leading to running in a bit of a gutter. Nothing obviously excessive, but for people who already struggles with overpronation, it does not help.
Since you work with Olympians, in a frozen country; where I suppose more miles are ran on treadmills vs outside than in most, on account of weather; I'm sure your treadmills do not suffer from any anomalies like that. But lots of the treadmills available out there, while lots better than 80s and 90s ones, are still not quite "olympian grade." While the ones that are, can cost more than an entire winter's worth of room and board, somewhere in Kenya....
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🏃♂️🏃🏽♂️🏃🏽♂️
Treadmill running is incredibly stupid in that it robs you of having an amazing experience outdoors instead of inside where you are likely to be way too many hours anyway.
In principle, I agree with you. But it may be that you, like me, live in a country where it gets very cold and dark and lots of ice for several months a year. Not easy to run hard intervals with many degrees below zero and there is ice everywhere. If you live where it's flat and are running a race in a mountain, treadmills are excellent as you can run on extremely long uphill runs. I also know many women who do not feel safe running outside when it is dark. Where I live, the sun rises after nine and sets before three in the afternoon when it is darkest. If you have a job during regular office hours, it will be pitch black before you start and when you finish work. That's when the treadmill can be a safe alternative.
Fair points! @@SpringSnabbare
You can NOT effectively train for a road race with just treadmill training. Treadmill platform too forgiving when it comes to shock absorption.
I have to disagree on the energy use being the same running outside vs on a treadmill - running outside is not simply bouncing, you do have to push yourself along. It's weird that you say that but then also accept that the treadmill causes less hamstring activation and more calf/ankle activation
Hi, what is the difference between bounce and push? Isn't boucing also little bit of pushing? And I think that walking on the treadmill is in principle the same as walking outside - even there is no bouncing here...
@@honza1859 the bounce he's referring to is the energy stored in your Achilles tendon and possibly the stretch reflex when your muscle (whether calf or hamstring) quickly switches from eccentric to concentric contraction - you still get both of those effects when walking. But my point is that we aren't perpetual motion machines, you still have to put some energy in and on a treadmill you don't have to push yourself forwards whereas on stationary ground (i.e. outside) you definitely have to, something he seems to acknowledge when accepting the difference in muscle activity between the hamstring and calf on the treadmill vs outside forms of the exercise.
I can maintain the same pace on a treadmill for an hour straight, outside I can run maybe a few hundred metres before my heart rate is approaching maximum and I have to slow to a walk to recover - there's definitely a difference, at least in my running experience
That said I do want to thank him for breaking me out of the misconceptions I had developed from watching other content - the 180 cadence myth, the lean, the avoidance of up/down motion, and especially the advice about keeping your feet close to the ground. His content is really useful
@nicolaslittle8154, it just ain't so (except for the air resistance). A guy called Newton worked this out a while back. The average force a runner exerts at constant velocity perfectly balances gravity + air resistance (and the latter is usually a small percentage of the former).
@@liamroche1473 what "ain't so"? You're talking nonsense thinking if you mention Newton you'll sound smart, you don't, you sound like an idiot
I would imagine it would take more energy running on a treadmill, since it is bouncy and therefore absorbing energy.
I do not know how anybody would think that a treadmill is different than normal running, if you have done both lol. Try timing a real distance, suddenly you will realize that you are doing just as fast of a mile, any difference is going to typically be based on the treadmill not being an exact machine.