The Startling Rise of Woobat in Little Cup
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- How Woobat Went From Zero to Hero in Competitive Little Cup Pokemon
Why was Woobat banned in little cup?
Competitive Little Cup Pokemon refers to Smogon's competitive singles Little Cup played on play.pokemonshowdown.com The tier is SS LC.
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“But in generation 8, Woobat received one of the most powerful things in the world. It received a friend.”
Honestly this is actually kinda wholesome
When that line came up I could hear the studio audience going “Awwwwww ❤️”
Made me smile :)
ironically, the friend would have been useless unless it comes with some material benefit with it (grassy seed).
sorry for ruining the wholesomeness...
“My friends are my power cliche”
Random otaku : i am weak but once i have power of friendship i am a god killer
It sounds so heartwarming that the best thing it could get was a friend
Really cool how the existence of other pokemon can make one overpowered. This is really rare and interesting to happen.
The existence of cinderace made slowbro prevelant in natdex, and dragapult would use it as set up fodder, another example lol
A similar thing happened in Pokemon Unite.
Decidueye, regarded as one of, if not the worst Pokemon in the game, shot up to being considered high-mid tier despite not receiving very much in the way of buffs because it turned out to be a legitimately good counter to Duraludon, who was extremely dominant on release due to it’s sheer power and range.
@@MedhaosUnite more like, the only counter to duraludon
@@TheMistermastermario Yes, the examples giving above you are just “anti-meta” scenarios. Can’t think of anything alike to grooky and wombat
basically the power of friendship made woobat broken
you love to see it
It's so cute cuz it also evolves by friendship 🥺
woobat thunder armor
Fun Fact: Woobat randomly got a 10 point buff to its base HP in Generation 7, which is really weird since you can't even catch it in Alola...
If I had to guess, that was probably reserved for Swoobat, but they messed up and forgor to fix it. There's really no other reason why the base HP difference between them is only 2
"zero to hero" *oh how this phrase aged for pokemon*
Yes, THE DOLPHIN POKEMON!
Freezai: But in generation 8, Woobat received one of the most powerful things in the world.
Me, Who doesn't know much about competitive pokemon but enjoys your content taking a random shot in the dark: Removal of pursuit?
Freezai: It received a friend.
Me: Shit that's deep.
hey thats me xD i do play comp tho, just not lc
It also really fits the tier that is exclusively the babies.
"It recieved a friend"
Very fitting for a Pokémon that evolves through friendship c:
I love to imagine these two playing together without a care in the world, but once their buddy is in danger, they both go into overdrive.
the pokemon mystery dungeon duo we deserve
Similarly, ZU banned the Grassy Seed because of their big brothers Swoobat and Thwackey
Interesting that the exact same strategy works for their evolutions!
@@Larszard Funny how that works. I also know Carvanha and Sharpedo do basically the exact same thing in their respective tiers, so that's another.
The saddest thing about this is that even though Grookey was a friend to Woobat, it also made Woobat too strong and got it banned from LC altogether.
The friends are now separated :(
they grow up and meet again in ou.
Zad
@@gregorymirabella1423 I don’t think swoobat is in ou
@@scientificallyaccuratespino you can still use it there.
@@gregorymirabella1423 Fair, what I meant to say is that it’s not very good
Zero to Hero. Dear god he called it
What's also notable is that Woobat has many checks that exist in the tier, they're just smothered by other top tier mons. Elekid is a big example, who loses to Diglett really really badly. You need virtually two checks to beat out Woobat, and neither of them are independently good.
Having your checks lose to common 'mons can be a huge deal. Just ask the normal types whose potential fighting counters had no hope against the dominant psychic types in gen 1.
@@jaschabull2365 To be fair, the fighting types were fucking awful as well. The strongest couldn't even cleanly 2HKO Chansey, Machamp would also kill itself with submission while trying.
Haha holyshit ain't no way you just predicted palafin
Freezai is the goat some may say.. nifalap UNLEASHED.
Woobat: I'm not good. No one likes me.
Grookey: But I do. *lends a hand
Woobat: WHO DARES OPPOSE ME MORTALS??
Additionally, as seen at the end of the video, it punishes bringing a Grooky of your own, as even if you take out theirs, sending yours in would proc the grassy seed anyway.
Because of your LC vids I made it to the top 100 on the ladder yesterday in LC! I never tried the tier before yesterday. Thanks for all the amazing content
After hearing all these banned LC Pokémon I wonder why there isn’t an LC Ubers or UU tier just like standard play
I'm pretty sure there's an unofficial LCUU, but I'm not sure an Ubers version of LC would really work that well
It's a bit tough to draw the line, as there any many Pokemon with base stats high enough to compete with fully evolved Pokemon that technically still have an evolution (Scyther, Type: Null, etc.).
Probably because there would have to be as many tiers as there are for conventional play, and there simply isn’t THAT much interest in Little Cup.
The thing about these banned mons is that the only standard about their power level is that it's too high for LC. Some of them like Woobat are slightly too strong. Some of them would almost 6v1 entire teams if they were allowed like Sneasel or Scyther. You could have a LC Ubers tier, but it's going to be completely taken over by a couple of things.
@@grunkleg.3110 Yep, there is LC Ubers, but it's unofficial, and IDK where to access it. There's 100% one though.
Something I've always wondered is why kartana was banned on gen 7 monotype grass teams but not steel teams, can you explain why?
Grassy terrain came to my mind
I also think that the Steel type adds more to the Grass type than the Grass type add to Steel
Aren’t steel teams banned from monotype anyway? Has that changed?
@@damp8277 then they will ban ferrothorn also because of this
@@XtheGAMEmaster nope
Woobat: You banned me... Why?
Smogon: Mmm... monke
The little cup videos that you make bring me life! I absolutely love learning about little cup and there’s such little content about it
This channel got me into both competitive pokemon in general, as well as little cup
And Dunsparce is a "Zero to Hero" too. XD
And yes... Palafin ability name, I know...
Hp moves and Pursuit: *gets deleted*
Alot of bad pokemon: We were bad but now were good
Another banger. Looking forward to Random Battles resuming
Zero to hero, just like bat!
Woobat doesn’t have zero to hero 😔
I dont know how relevant this is, but there's another benefit to having Grookey setting the Grassy Terrain, which is that Roost removes the flying type for the turn, so you get the Grassy Terrain heal, meaning Roost ends up healing just a little bit more
Little cup has always been my favorite teir, so glad to see these LC videos getting traction!!
An interesting story that admittedly others such as Plague Von Karma and Big Yellow have covered is how Porygon 1 went from don't use this to still not amazing, but does have a valuable niche in Gen 1 OU
So, if it hadn't been for the Seed, the Terrain... or maybe even if Punishment hadn't been removed, Woobat might've been able to hit the sweet spot of being viable but not overpowered?
Anyway, neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Going into the video my guess is pursuit got deleted.
Edit: I was wrong it was grassy seed defense boost. Even the removal of punishment was more impactful. No idea why they removed that move. Pursuit I understand more because it is very powerful in some formats and generally holds back psychic and to some extent ghost types, though I would argue that some of them are balanced around that. I would prefer if they nerfed it somehow but kept it around, maybe make it like sucker punch i.e. so that it fails if the target doesn’t attempt to switch, that would create some interesting 50/50 read scenarios in the same way sucker punch does and would be a substantial nerf but wouldn’t make the move unusable in formats with strong pursuit targets, maybe buff its bp to compensate.
Love this channel
I’ve always loved woobat so much, he’s just a fuzzy lil fella. Even better that his power was boosted by friendship!
the amount of contetn you are putting out as of late. damn
this was before gen 9😯
Thank you Freezai! Now I finally know why sticky web was banned last gen.
I love this channel
it's really wholesome that the reason woobat is good is because it got a friend :)
Gastly:finally a worthy opponent our battle will be legendary
the tale of woobat is the ultimate example of lame to fame. this mon was garbage in gens 5-7 but in gen 8 this thing would single-handedly reverse sweep games from seemingly unwinnable positions. what ultimately got this thing banned was it's abuse in smogon's snake draft. everyone was using this mon, including freezai himself, and lc games became woobat vs woobat crit wars because nothing else could stop it. very happy this mon got banned and good to see freezai sticking to his lc roots :)
That’s really cool that you could use Punishment to kill CM Stored Power sweepers. never thought about that.
1:26 Aw. The power of friendship.
Freeeeeezaiiiiii
HI
I love Woobat, so this is wholesome
funny that this came out before gen 9
Before watching video/reading comments: its gonna be bc of pursuit isnt it
After: huh, I never would have guessed grassy terrain would have been it
Although Pursuit would help somewhat unless fast users of Pursuit can’t knock Woobat out in one hit.
honestly thought it would be bc of teleport and no pursuit but i was pleasantly surprised
I've never heard of the move punishment... But I've heard many things about knock off
I love little cup content
The Bonnie and Clyde of ube… little cup? Wow!
That was unexpected o.O
im loving these videos, maybe you can tell us why mimikyu was Ou in gen 7 but like Ru in gen 8?
Disguise nerf
funny, i was just thinking about whether or not there was a move called punishment, and here it is.
Wait... They also removed _Punishment_ ? Dafuq? XD
See, of the moves that got removed, a bunch of them are weird niche options that nobody in their right mind would ever actually run.
Except, no, a bunch of those weird moves *did* have niche usage potential, it's just that they were bad *in VGC,* so Game Freak really doesn't care what happens to them.
(You telling me this thing has been 60 BP before accounting for buffs this whole time? So it's like a weird alternative option to Bite that destroys Weakness Policy? And this is what got axed entirely?)
@@misirtere9836 Not a VGC expert, but wouldn't Dynamax have made Punishment even more relevant since boosts are so easy to come by? Ironic that they'd remove it...unless it was intentionally to make sure Dynamax wouldn't suck right out the gate.
@@dansonnguyen7663 I think that is exactly what happened.
So then Hidden Power would be remove only because it is inherently different typings based on the Pokémon and therefore they cannot set a neutral typing for it like Weather Ball and not because it encourages suboptimal IVs?
Omg guys lets remove pursuit what could possibly go wrong
Dragapult and Pre-Ban Spectrier:
Oml, little cup damage rolls are crazy.
Proof that somethimes all someone needs is a friend.
I wish i also had a friend like woobat :(
I don’t play LC, but are there no viable haze options? Topsy-turvy inkay seems like a decent theory check
inkay isn't useful for literally anything else, so wasting a whole pokemon slot for such a niche scenario is not good
Simple is a legit OP ability. Imagine it on something with Power-Up Punch and Flame Charge.
Little Cup! Woo!
Seeds activating on flying pokes makes little sense to me. Flying pokes are not affected by the terrain otherwise, so why does the seed activate?
Lol the dude screaming Frezaiiii
Did you catch the zero to hero term from pw manzil
"Woobat became unstoppable"
Can u do a baton pass vid
Today was actually the first time I had to remember what Punishment...did. My friend saw it in a randomizer today.
Frankly uh...why did this move need removing? That effect is...pretty huge and nothing else really fills that gap. It's kinda like Pursuit in that way, it's not even a *bad* move. Situational, but still has a purpose
lol blame gamefreak
@@Kamirasu I mean I Do but it'd be nice to at least have a reasoning
when return to monkey was all along the answer even if bats never started as monkey to begin with.
Can you do one in why aegislash went from ubers to uu
Top ten 10 anime moments
True power of friendship.
Quick guess this friend it got was the monke
Yayyyyy monke and bat
Does any LC pokemon get topsy turvy?
And here I thought it was because of pursuit
Serene Grace replays
Minigame: predict the circumstance
So Woobat from Gen 5 LC to Gen 8 LC. Possible reasons. Trickle down effect of Gastly being banned in Gen 8 LC, meant Woobat doesn't have to deal with a big check. Also Pawniard (and other Pursuiters) can't Pursuit it. It's Flying Subtype avoids Diglett and Trapinch Arena Trap, and where Gothita may have been a good answer, she's banned too. Wynaut doesn't really want to try and trap Woobat, bc simple allows it to get to +6 +6 in 3 turns.
That all said. Gen 8 LC while being weaker than Gen 7 LC and maybe Gen 6 LC), is probably at a similar power level to Gen 5 LC. So on the surface it seems like something that wasn't used now can be, and rarely would that catapult something from
Damn that's so cool, lets go Monke. Didn't even realise there could be terrain setters in LC
Woooooo
Where do you find the viability rankings?
I still don't get why they decided to remove some moves, like, what problem did they ever cause?
The developers got lazy. The Gen 8 meta is an even better argument against regional dex than anything else
If you want “explanations”, switching is so key to Pokémon that Pursuit was removed, and Hidden Power is so unintuitive and means Pokémon who need Hidden Power often must run suboptimal IVs to get the needed Hidden Power type.
Out of universe? They don’t care and needed an excuse to stop rendering common moves.
@@iantaakalla8180 they also didn't feel like updating hidden power with the fairy typing as well
They got rid of Punishment?
Guess that explains my confusion with stat-boosted sweepers running rampant
Yeah… just did some calcs and at +2 SpA/Def/SpD, Vullaby with Punishment 1 shots Woobat. They removed a lot of niche options.
I wanna see some fanart of Woobat and Grooky.
Woobat: “I’m Swoobat without the S”
I ran this in GEN 7 with grassy pelt skidoo 😅 I'm ahead of my time
Why wasn't grooky banned? Always curious why one is banned n not the other
Woobat got tired of being called a clone of zubat
Lmfao, and I thought I was clever using Swoobat with grassy seed in 2v2
Grookey line help a lot of Pokemon, eh?
It recieved fren :3
Pursuit is probably one of the reasons
Edit: well, I was wrong
can you talk about how zigzagoon was banned?
Pursuit too
Why aren’t there other tiers within LC? I think it would be fun to see LCOU, LCUU and so on.
There was an LC Ubers tier in Gen 7, but they merged it with NFE
They have lc uu you can play it in the lc room they often host lc uu roomtours
With so many banned LC Pokémon, why isn’t there an LC Ubers tier?
Question: Why did they make the decision to ban Woobat and not Grassy Seed? Would removing Grassy Seed impact other pokemon in a way that would affect the tier? Is Woobat too strong even without Grassy Seed?
I know in zu they banned grassy seed for woobats evo pulling the same strat, but I think it wasn't banned in this cup because other mons who needed it didn't have issues, whereas in zu swoobat was likely the only user, or the other seed users were similarly too strong with it..or it was just different decision making teams choosing differently
Grooky itself also runs it sometimes so prob that
Question: Why isn't it good in gen 7, since there are a number of LC Pokémon who can learn Grassy Terrain?
Mainly because of the tempo loss from using the move. Having it as an ability is many times better since you don’t have to waste a turn to set it up, allowing for your opponent to prepare. In gen 7 Punishment also exists. Woobat with a single calm mind and grassy boost buffs it to 180 base power, which will just ohko through the seed.
Easy: they need to set it up, meaning that they can be killed before Grassy Terrain is set up. Since no one talks about the manual Grassy Terrain setters in Gen 7, it must mean that manual Grassy Terrain is unviable, so Woobat does not get that defense increase. (the only automatic Grassy Terrain setter is Tapu Bulu, which is not allowed in LC.)
In Gen 8, Grookey sets it automatically and has a strong priority move so it is a good Grassy Terrain setter. Therefore, Woobat can be unstoppable.
It sounds like Grassy Surge is the problem, not Woobat?
I want game freak to make little cup an official thing even if it is just for a online event
Why ban that instead of Grassy Surge?
Flash Fire Houndour would completely wall Woobat, but it's not available in Gen 8
Not Air Slash sets.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 Then Pawniard walls it
Then Heat Wave melts it. You’d probably need both to scout which one its running and counter it accordingly.
@@Mr.Sax. Not even that well actually, +2 Air Slash still deals up to 42% to Eviolite Pawniard and Pawniard can't OHKO in return since Woobat has no item and +2 defense. So if Pawniard is below 80% hp, it comes down to a 50/50. If Pawniard switches in on Calm Mind, it then has to take a +2 Air Slash and retaliates with a Knock Off that deals 60%.
It then boils down to a 50/50, depending on whether Woobat uses Roost or another Air Slash. If it uses Air Slash and Pawniard uses Sucker Punch, Pawniard wins, if it uses Roost and Pawniard uses Knock Off again, Woobat is down to 30% and can only repeat that game 3 more times. However if Pawniard uses Sucker Punch on Roost, Woobat becomes high enough again to finish it off with Air Slash, while using Knock Off on Air Slash means Woobat will still KO it before it gets to attack.
Add in the flinch chance from Air Slash and things still favor Woobat. Of course Heat Wave is still better, but if Houndour was around, Woobat could still work around it without completely giving up against Pawniard.
Basically, it got helped by monke
Bro little cup but with level 100 baby pokemon