5/3/1 isn’t even a workout program. It’s a rep scheme for main lifts. After the main lift you fill the accessory lifts as you see fit. You can add or subtract as much volume as you want.
@@Kez_StarrI don’t think it’s a misunderstanding. Wendler intended 5/3/1 to be an indefinite program with pre programmed deloads. You should never really plateau with 5/3/1 because of the gradual build up. There are plenty of other programs that are only designed to be ran for short durations because it’s physically impossible to recover from them indefinitely. GVT is only supposed to be ran for 18 weeks for example. I think Mike understands main/accessory/supplementary lifts of 5/3/1 and he’s only saying that there are intermediate programs that fall in between and are better for the intermediate lifter. 5/3/1 is spectacular for early lifters first getting under the bar, as well as advanced lifters who need to work through a plateau. GVT is great for advanced lifters due to the short bursts of crazy intense volume, but you will burn out eventually. For this same reason it’s terrible for beginners. I agree with the sentiment here that there are better programs for the intermediate lifter.
@@Kez_Starr because when you google 531 you get a lot of terrible articles that explain it very poorly. Hell, even Wendler himself has never been particularly good at conveying his ideas. I've read his original 531 book and Forever, and that dude desperately needs an editor.
@@brev653 how hard is it to explain 5/3/1 lol? The first time I read it in a T Nation article 10 years ago it was clearly laid out by Wendler and I had no confusion on how it was to be run, and that was a full program he put on that article.
Even wendler will tell you to not run 5/3/1 as written. 5/3/1 is a basic template of waving loads on your main lifts indefinitely for a person who just wants to be strong for life. You are meant to fill out the volume with accessories as needed. 5/3/1 assumes you know how to select smaller exercises to fit your individual goals and also assumes you just want to be strong enough to be a good father and husband and maybe compete for fun
Great perspective on 5/3/1! I'm over 40, training jiu jitsu, chasing two young kids and a small business owner. The 5/3/1 template fits into that efficiently, and is proving effective for my goals.
@@JermaineBrantley I'm 22, training Judo and soon Muay Thai. I was getting beat up from high volume workouts, elbow tendonitis being the worst injury I'm dealing with that's still isn't healed. I just started doing 5/3/1. Not for the purpose of optimal gains, but for slow and steady progress without beating myself up too much. I'll probably do 5/3/1 as my main program and then run cycles of other programs every now and then.
@@bigmitch7901bjj and judo here. Yeah I run/alternate 3 different 2 day a week templates and change up certain accessories but we are always “in season” if I stack to much volume my ability to perform the sport for which I am training for diminishes. I’m 43 and take no exogenous hormones. Too much volume is only going to lead to injuries
What I learned from my time with 5-3-1 was a scientific approach to progression. I learned more ideal programs later but I have a sentimental attachment to the program since it put me on a focused path.
@@devontae7262531 is just the progression for the main lifts. After that the volume is filled up with accessories/more of the main lift. There’s a lot of really fun templates actually.
@@devontae7262he’s talking about the different templates that Jim Wendler now has. It’s not the basic 5/3/1 that it used to be anymore. There are many different variations available now.
Straight up, 531 is a philosophy more than a program… and if you are not ready to take responsibility for your accessory work, you are not ready for 531. I burned a long time on 531 because I just wasn’t smart enough with my accessory work.
There’s so many programming variations of 5/3/1 that it doesn’t seem fair to generalize it as bad for intermediates. 5/3/1 with low volume or overly basic accessory work is definitely not ideal for intermediates.
The core framework of 531 is bad. The generalization holds. The "work sets" are bad (only 1 set is stimulating, and only on 2 of the 3 weeks). The "joker sets" are downright stupid. The GPP interferes with strength and hypertrophy adaptations. The "accessory" work is fatiguing without being stimulating across all of the templates offered in 5/3/1, 5/3/1 for powerlifting, 5/3/1 forever, and beyond 5/3/1. It's bad, and it would be worthwhile to explore other programs.
@@v0idbit69 half the shit you wrong in the comments are weird justifications for not being able to create a proper regime for yourself instead of defaming 5/3/1 with baseless claims , your routine was bad not 5/3/1
I've made big gains using the 5-3-1 program. Accessory work is what you also need to be doing. Changing up those movements. Along with increasing the weight and or reps as you progress. It's all about consistency and not just doing the main lifts and the BBB...
Mind pmo to ur program. I’m trying to find what accessory lifts I should be adding. Assuming ur following the week 1 sets of 5 , week 2 sets of 3 and week 3 sets of 5 3 1
@@musabawad7230 Practically just pick a template from one of Wendler's book (531 Forever is the most comprehensive one). I run a template called 531 Boring But Big that had 3 "phase" of sets in a day: - The main set: the 5s/3s/531s of the main lifts - The supplemental sets: 5x10 at 50% TM of the main lifts. - The accessory lifts: basically any lifts that are not the main lifts, push 50 reps, pull 50 reps, and leg 25 reps.
531 is a great place to start when building a “power building” program. Replace some of the BBB volume with accessory work and you’ll have a program that works well for a long time
Yeah,thats a powerbuilding program right there,Mike is talking from the perspective of aomeone thats on the juice,but if youre the average dude with a job/school,life,doing other sports,then 531 followed by lets say some muscle building volume of the main lifts with some pullups and chinups sprinkled in will be more than enough volume
I modified 5/3/1 and it's been great for me. I don't think anyone is supposed to run it just off the base template but even then depending on the person the total volume might be lots. I've made huge progress off of my program and have done little more than adding warmups and a few post block accessories like concentration curls and raises on upper day
6 sets of main lift. An indefinite amount of accessory work suited to what you or I need for our goals at any given time! I've tried a lot of bad templates, 5/3/1 was never one of them.
An especially if youre natty,youre not gona be able to do 20-30 sets and recover in time,thats why I and a lot of seasoned lifters tend to recommend 531 bbb,because it freaking works,the 531 exercise is the strength builder while the 5x10 and the pullups and chinups are the muscle builder
Playing devil's advocate in defense of GVT, or at least GVT-styled programming (variations of which I also ran pretty consistently for 5~8 years after my 1~3ish year noob phase and saw steady muscle growth from a bodyweight around 155 all the way up to 175): People often misunderstand how the volume and progression works. In 10 sets of 10 with the correctly chosen weight, the early sets are very far from hypertrophic because the RIR will be anywhere from 5~10. Somewhere around the fifth set is when the target work begins. So, 5ish sets within the hypertrophic RIR range isn't necessarily an absurd/excessive amount of volume. Of course everything *else* about the programming with this will matter (such as whether, when, and how you include other accessory lifts per muscle). I'm just pointing out that GVT style programming--whatever else its other merits or demerits--is misunderstood from the pov of working volumes. My own typical use of it involved an every-other-week, practice-then-mastery type progression scheme whereby I'd complete the prescribed 10 sets in week 1, then add +2 reps to every set in week 2 (10x12), and then (assuming I'd completed at least 90% of the reps) I'd drop back to 10x10 but now with added weight. For example: Week 1 DB Bench Press 10x10 @ 140lbs Week 2 DBBP 10x12@140lbs Week 3 DBBP 10x10@150lbs Etc. This would typically get me anywhere from 6~8 weeks of training before stalling and needing deloads. RIR in final sets would gradually drop from 2~1 in week 1 until I was failing in the final set or two by week 6. Other advantages, I thought, included time efficiency in the gym, more than adequate warmup/practice sets to help prepare joints/tendons while mastering good technique, and pretty gnarly pumps (especially DB Bench, DB rows, and FULL ROM Leg Press). Again, this is admittedly anecdotal support using a perhaps atypical *variation* of GVT, but my point is to try to push back a bit on how we think about the "volumes" in GVT work.
High junk volume. BBB for example has you pick a weight you can do for sets of 10 across several sets for your "volume work". That means each set of your "volume work" except for the last were really fatiguing and not very stimulating. The "work set" schema has the same problem. Your first two "work sets" are actually really fatiguing warm up sets. Your first "work set" is done with more than 10 RIR ffs. So for all of the "volume" in BBB, you actually get 2 stimulating sets (one from the top set, and one from the last "volume" set) and both were performed with high levels of fatigue. The rest of the "volume" work done are just sources of fatigue that aren't very stimulating, or worse, interfering with recovery and regressing your progress.
@@v0idbit69 Absolutely agreed. I got stuck on 531 for 2 years because Reddit tells you to (basically the only program you're allowed to run, be it strength or size). Barely any visual progress. In 2 fucking years. 5/3/1 has so many issues you need to overcome to make it good for hypertrophy - why not just run a program that actually IS good from the start?
@@mikesteven1133 if you see progress on 531 just keep doing it, you dont need to hop programs because a youtuber said so. 531 is just a rep scheme for the big compound lifts and the rest of the routine is up to you
The people I’ve heard talk shit on 5/3/1 as being “low volume” have not read the books and only referred to internet articles. It’s a template and can be altered many ways to your liking. You can have as much or as little volume as you want or can handle. Ex: on a bench day I was getting the following 3s week 1x3 @70% 1x3 @ 80% 1x3+ (AMRAP -1) @ 90% Couple set of jokers depending on how I felt. So 1-3 more sets of 3. Then 3-5x with my first set weight for 8 reps. Then I would hit a close variation, like CG bench for example, on my OHP day for more work.
For the sample you provided, the first two sets of 3 aren't stimulating, but they did build some fatigue so that your performance on the only stimulating set of 3+ is somewhat compromised. If you end up using "joker" sets, then your top set in your "work" sets probably wasn't stimulating either. Using your first "work" set for 3-5 more sets 8 reps each demonstrates two things, 1) your first "work" set was way too light to stimulate anything at 3 reps (a point already covered), and 2) if you're lifting the same load for the same reps across all 3-5 then the first 2-4 sets aren't stimulating either. Without you giving specifics, I'm guessing the sets for your close variation aren't any better. So, out of all of the sets you did, you got 1 stimulating (but compromised) set out of your "work" sets + "joker" sets, and 1 stimulating (but _highly_ compromised) set out of your 3-5 sets with your first "work" set. All of the other sets are junk volume that don't contribute towards strength or hypertrophy. You could save yourself a lot of time, effort, and recovery by skipping all the junk volume. But since junk volume is at the core of 5/3/1, you'd need to abandon it.
Unless you're a genetic freak. There's a guy at my gym who's workout consists of nothing but SBD, seemingly in that order. Squats 4 or 5 plates, deadlifts 5 or 6 plates, bench I think is 3 or 4.
I used 5/3/1 for a long time, but Jim has released 4 books at this point and never given a detailed breakdown of %s for accessory work - just general sets x reps and no progression model. I like 5/3/1 but tossing it to a beginner without anything further on accessory work is pretty lazy on Jim’s part. Also, 5x10 on squats and deadlifts is kinda pointless- those could be structured better for boring but big. Jim’s philosophy is to keep things simple.. I agree with that, but after selling us 4 books I move comprehensive breakdown of accessories would be nice other than “don’t major in the minor leagues, sunshine!”
Biggest issue with the 5x10 concept is fatique imo. If you're hitting your last set with RPE10 and 10 reps - why did you even bother with the first 2-3 sets? Complete waste of time, they were like RPE5 at best.
5/3/1 wasnt originally designed for powerlifting. Wendler designed it for himself when he had retired from powerlifting and wanted to get in shape. He now uses it to train high school football players. Watch the Chad Wesley Smith series of exercise selection for BJJ and you can still use 5/3/1 and similar programs for programming.
It is quite necessary to run 5/3/1 with accessory exercises depending on what you need, which the strength of this program is in the room it allows you to add on your own needs
I'd like to see an actual in-depth critique of 5/3/1 because of all the things you can say about it, low volume is not one of them. When you add the accessory movements and assistance in, most of its programs hover somewhere between MEV/MAV for the major muscles. I understand it's the competitor for your app, and I respect the hustle, but a demonstration of why people should avoid 5/3/1 templates (of which there are dozens) would be nice to see.
The best hypertrophy routine I did was a GVT, was the biggest in my life in my early 40's but strength wise 531 got me from a 315 bench for a few reps to 447 for a single at 214lbs body weight at 44. Took a little over a year but was worth it
holy shit dude....130 plus lbs progression is crazy at that age I am 22 and i my Bench is 90kgs ..that's around 204 lbs...but i have just started the 531 this week....i will take your word for it and progress patiently
Slow and progressive is the key. Listen to your body, you'll learn when to really push, when to Delgado, when to change up a routine. I ego lifted for years in my 20's, hitting 225 for working sets of behind the neck presses. Now at 56 my joints are paying the price. I'll never get back to my max lifts again but still go heavy enough to induce growth to a degree.
I’m looking too start GVT; quick question when you implemented it was you using a weight/resistance close too you’re 15 or 20 rep max and were you using fast or slow eccentrics
So what are the alternative training plans for someone who started off with 5/3/1 if they’d like to continue their hypertrophy past the beginner phase ?
You can continue on 5/3/1 a long time if you run the high volume programs and plan through the long term well. But I also cycle my 5/3/1 cycles with the Greg Nuckols SBS programs.
I did 531 and got stronger. Its not enough for decent hypertrophy. Just throwing 50-100 reps per exercise isn't enough, it's the quality of those reps that count. I grew more out of doing 2-3 hard sets using a rep goal system. And superset everything. It's not a bodybuilding program for me.
Yeah it's a strength program. I've gotten so much muscles from doing my own bodybuilding split that now I seek more real strength. I'm going to begin on 5/3/1 + big but boring and other accessory exercises
I will say after using 5/3/1 for literally only 2 months after no proper programming or deload in 1.75 years of training before: I haven’t went from: 435-470 Squat 210-235 Paused Bench 535-565 Deadlift 184-189 BW You have to know what accessories to use and how to fill the rest of the volume after the main lift even if you use BBB because the intensity is relatively low on BBB Sets.
I’ve also gotten much bigger in my triceps which kind of is helping my poverty bench, and my legs have never been bigger or stronger and they’ve always been a really strong point for me. I’ve been shocked at the fact they got bigger because I thought I maxed them out 😂
Saying 5/3/1 is low volume is absurd because the amount of volume the lifter does on their accessories after the main lift is totally up to their discretion. 5/3/1 is nothing more than a 3 week wave of progression for the main lifts followed by as many accessories needed to elicit a hypertrophic response. I’m not saying it’s the be all end all of programming but it’s essentially a proven old school approach that has stood the test of time.
@@zezeti2246 Volume is highly overrated anyways. Mechanical tension is the main driver of hypertrophy by a country mile. If anything many 531 templates have too much volume.
@@andrewsmith5512 I think it depends on the person,do you want only strength,go for a bare bones 531,do you also want the muscle building component,go for something like 531 boring but big
@@zezeti2246 Strength training and hypertrophy training are the same thing. The only difference is strength training requires a very small amount of heavy lifting for neurological efficiency. One rep at roughly 90% per week has been proven to produce almost if not maximal neural adaptations for any big compound movement. BBB definitely puts size on you but I personally think there are much more efficient, less fatiguing ways to program assistance work.
@@andrewsmith5512 at least for me,programs that incorporate both strength and muscle building work the best,they bleed into each other in a sense,the low reps help the muscle building exercises to push higher weights at higher reps and the higher reps improve my capacity work in lower reps
It depends,yeah,531 on its own is kinda minimalist in a sense,but there are all sorts of variants of it that you can try,there is boring but big,boring but strong,build the monolith,if you ask me,I think you should milk every variation of what its worth,try everyone for at least 3 cycles
The gym is an auxiliary activity which supports physical transformation. however if it is your primary avenue of achieving your “goals”, youre EXTREMELY limiting the potential positive results. You’ll just end up having a hard time wiping your ass or scratching your back while wasting a LOT of time when the same results can be achieved faster and easier via other methods.
It's a three week workout where you do three main sets on a compound lift like bench, squat, deadlift, strict press. First week is five reps at 65% of 1rm, then five reps at 75% of 1rm, then an amrap set of at least five reps at 85%. Second week is three reps at 70%, three reps at 80% and an amrap set of at least three reps at 90% of 1rm. Third week is five reps at 75% , three reps at 85%, and an amrap set of at least one rep at 95% of one rep max.
Building The Monolith and other 5/3/1 variants are great. He must be talking about the basic 5/3/1 which I believe is 3 sets of a compound lift. He doesn't recommend other programs as well so what does he want his audience doing?
The whole point of 5/3/1 is the volume of the main lift is low and it’s made up through accessory work. This isn’t a great take tbh. Mike said the same thing about conjugate and it’s flat wrong. The volume can be as high as you want. For example - Wendler reccomends 50-100 total reps of pushing / pulling + extra accessories after a top set of bench.
There's an EliteFTS video where someone mentions a criticism Bret Contreras has of 5/3/1 and his response is essentially "IDGAF. My kids dominated in the football field this past year with their athleticism."
I’m German! Well German decent lol. Honestly I just found out about German volume training 5 min ago and was hoping he breaks it down further on why it’s good/ bad.
I made the best intermediate progression on 5/3/1. It’s all about how you set up your accessory work and progressing on it. A lot of people half-ass it and that’s why they don’t make good progress. If you do 5 push and 5 pull sets on both upper workouts you’re already over 10 sets per week of each. 5/3/1 provides a good way to warm up the nervous system before hypertrophy work, similar to conjugate.
You can adjust your supplementary and assistant work. For example in Boring But Big you can do 3 sets of 10 instead of 5. Or just do the main lift with the top set and then just do few sets of a another exercise or movement and stop. Adjust the volume depending on your recovery and progression.
@@xristos722 great advice, but I definitely tried that. I moved down to 3x10, and then tried doing for example 3x10 of RDLs after squats and front squats on DL day. Never did the “I’m not doing Jack sh*t” tho. I will try it at some point. Someone had a log on the Starting Strength forums and made some good progress.
cause while it's not without it's faults it gets misrepresented a lot. This is, in part, on Wendler himself because he decided to hide all the refinements and improvements that he made over the years behind a paywall/book. Not saying that he doesn't deserve to get paid, but that this is just a consequence of that decision.
I feel like theres only two kinds of programs out there. Either it's 3 or 4 day programs with waaaaay too little volume, that will stop working immediately once noobie gains stop, or it's these psychotic "squat 6 days a week" style plateau breaker programs. But real, sustainable intermediate programs are very hard to find.
Thats why a lot of lifters with a decade or 2 of lifting might have built a program for themselves because not everyone is the same,some progress more on low volume,others on medium volume others need to train more often,others less,and you find out all these stuffd after youve been throw a few programs and seen how your body responds
People usually just attack the idea of doing 3 sets and nothing else. And even if they are aware of BBB they attack the "5x10 at 50%" setup instead of something like "BBB at FSL percentages with daily whole body assistance" like 5/3/1 Forever would program it.
Besides the barbell work which can vary in volume/intensity from program to program, 5/3/1 has daily assistance work that is anywhere from 25-100 reps of daily push, pull, and single leg/ab depending on how hard/easy the barbell work is.
@@ElloAsty 4-days per week. Not daily. Typically with a frequency of once per week per lift. Also, counting reps instead of sets for determining volume leads to junk volume, which 5/3/1 is loaded with.
Dude. If you take a break you’ll get your gains back. It’s two steps forward, one step back. So much more optimal than staying on it and grinding for YEARS under slow progress. Your body will transform in far superior ways if you go in for deep dives then full come off the lifting and do other shit like hardcore yoga or become a bad ass trail runner or build a fuckin farm in your yard. Gym heads are weird when they get sooooo obsessed and boxed into the one activity of lifting weights. That body isn’t even functional or evolutionarily attractive. You’ve got to be sick in the head to desire that and obsess over it. No shade, if it happens as a result of a harmonious and balanced lifestyle, however I have yet to see an example of that. I step in the gym for 4 months and roided freaks ask me how I get so ripped with lean muscle and so much strength….. it’s certainly NOT from grinding in the gym. While that’s about 10-20% of it, the VARIETY of active lifestyles are the real answer. You won’t get there in the gym, fellas. Look at any super athlete influencer posting gym content. I would bet that less than 5% of them ONLY lifted waits. I’d bet the other 95% have either played sports or had a physically demanding occupation. The gym is an auxiliary to the other things in life that really transform you 🧠
Wasted so much time with 5/3/1, what a joke of a program (especially in the initial "3 weeks of low volume training / 1 week of embarsssingly light deload" form)
I did 5/3/1 for about two years. I bought all of the 5/3/1 books, tried several templates, and I was going no-where fast. Over the first year on the 531 unaltered train, I maybe added 100 lbs to my total. The second year I regressed due to injuries, likely due to the limited exercise selection, high junk volume, low meaningful volume, limited variation, and poor fatigue management in the program. I started making changes to the program. The most significant change I made as reversing the order of the work sets, to start with the heaviest load while trying to hit RPE 8. The program worked _waaaaay_ better that way. I was nearly getting newbie gains again. But it was still really bad.After a few injuries and big regresses in progress, I switched to hypertrophy training. RP's hypertrophy book helped piece together a good program, and now my hypertrophy work is making me stronger than the "strength" program I was following with 5/3/1. 5/3/1 wasted a lot of my time. Total garbage.
I tried 5/3/1 a few times before but it felt weird doing only one or two heavy sets. I suspect his minimalist advice is either based on very seasoned old powerlifters or malnourished teenagers. Meanwhile almost the entire internet has preached minimalism with the lifts that in my experience give the most gains like I've supposed to do one heavy set of overhead press, call it quits and do 5x10 good mornings or whatever randomly picked assistance? Madness.
5/3/1 isnt the problem , your miss-use of the programm was, i have been running 5/3/1 bbb with added accesory and 7th week deload and i nearly doubled my strength
Finally somebody tells it like it is about 5/3/1. It’s a bad program combining low volume and low intensity for negative gains. Even the folks defending it here say that for it to be of any use you have to change the program and add stuff to it. Not much of a program is it then? Even more framework-y stuff like GZCL and Juggernaut require relatively little fiddling to get right.
Quit listening to all these "experts". Go to the gym and lift your butt off for 6 months and you'll see an incredible difference. Oh, and if you're fat, eat less, and if you're skinny, eat more. You're welcome.
Stupid. 5/3/1 does work. In regards to low volume, you're SUPPOSED to add accessories for higher reps. You can easily adjust he frequency of each exercise
5 3 1 boys really triggered. I did 5 3 1 and I read Wendler's first take on it. He absolutely suggests only doing main lift once per week on 5 3 1 session. You can walk it back all you want with other ideas, but that is absolutely the idea behind 5 3 1. very intense top set for busy individuals.
And exactly 1 of those sets stimulated any kind of desired adaptation while the other 4 were fatiguing for no reason. If you're squatting the same load for the same reps on set 5 as you are in set 1, then sets 1, 2, 3, and 4 weren't challenging enough to be meaningful.
@@v0idbit69 I'd be closing the door on programs by Jim Wendler, Greg Nuckols, and Chad Wesley Smith if I thought multiple sets of the same weight were a waste of time. I know their programs work for me and have made me stronger so I don't really care what a TH-cam comment is telling me.
@@ElloAsty Abandoning 531 and Juggernaut is a good thing. They are both hot garbage for strength and hypertrophy. Juggernaut starts with a phase designed to accumulate fatigue. That's a _very dumb_ approach to gaining strength or hypertrophy. It's a good approach to developing cardio and endurance. If that's your goal, why are you even mad about my criticism that these programs are awful for strength and hypertrophy? Nuckols' programs are mostly decent. If you switch around the work sets so that you start with the heaviest sets and work your way down to the lighter ones , his intermediate programs are golden. Even as-is, all of the work sets put you in the 0-3 RIR range, which is within the strength and hypertrophy sweet spot. These programs are incomparable with 531 and Juggernaut, because they are actually well put together.
@@v0idbit69 I am not mad about your criticism. That would be devoting way too much energy to you man. I'm happily setting up for a BBB squat session right now I gotta get back to. Hopefully by the end of the year I can have 355 or 360 for 5x10.
5/3/1 isn’t even a workout program. It’s a rep scheme for main lifts. After the main lift you fill the accessory lifts as you see fit. You can add or subtract as much volume as you want.
This. How do so many people misunderstand this.
@@Kez_StarrI don’t think it’s a misunderstanding. Wendler intended 5/3/1 to be an indefinite program with pre programmed deloads. You should never really plateau with 5/3/1 because of the gradual build up.
There are plenty of other programs that are only designed to be ran for short durations because it’s physically impossible to recover from them indefinitely. GVT is only supposed to be ran for 18 weeks for example. I think Mike understands main/accessory/supplementary lifts of 5/3/1 and he’s only saying that there are intermediate programs that fall in between and are better for the intermediate lifter.
5/3/1 is spectacular for early lifters first getting under the bar, as well as advanced lifters who need to work through a plateau. GVT is great for advanced lifters due to the short bursts of crazy intense volume, but you will burn out eventually. For this same reason it’s terrible for beginners. I agree with the sentiment here that there are better programs for the intermediate lifter.
@@Kez_Starr because when you google 531 you get a lot of terrible articles that explain it very poorly. Hell, even Wendler himself has never been particularly good at conveying his ideas. I've read his original 531 book and Forever, and that dude desperately needs an editor.
@@brev653 Awe. When I read it, it made sense to me...
@@brev653 how hard is it to explain 5/3/1 lol? The first time I read it in a T Nation article 10 years ago it was clearly laid out by Wendler and I had no confusion on how it was to be run, and that was a full program he put on that article.
damn shots fired at 531!
I like 531
Mike is clueless about 531.....
Wendler doesn't really care.
@@rjvsmb never said he did
@@steffenpetersen2103 I know.
He did this for engagement 😂
Facts!
Even wendler will tell you to not run 5/3/1 as written. 5/3/1 is a basic template of waving loads on your main lifts indefinitely for a person who just wants to be strong for life. You are meant to fill out the volume with accessories as needed. 5/3/1 assumes you know how to select smaller exercises to fit your individual goals and also assumes you just want to be strong enough to be a good father and husband and maybe compete for fun
Great perspective on 5/3/1! I'm over 40, training jiu jitsu, chasing two young kids and a small business owner. The 5/3/1 template fits into that efficiently, and is proving effective for my goals.
@@JermaineBrantley I'm 22, training Judo and soon Muay Thai. I was getting beat up from high volume workouts, elbow tendonitis being the worst injury I'm dealing with that's still isn't healed.
I just started doing 5/3/1. Not for the purpose of optimal gains, but for slow and steady progress without beating myself up too much.
I'll probably do 5/3/1 as my main program and then run cycles of other programs every now and then.
@@bigmitch7901bjj and judo here. Yeah I run/alternate 3 different 2 day a week templates and change up certain accessories but we are always “in season” if I stack to much volume my ability to perform the sport for which I am training for diminishes. I’m 43 and take no exogenous hormones. Too much volume is only going to lead to injuries
What I learned from my time with 5-3-1 was a scientific approach to progression. I learned more ideal programs later but I have a sentimental attachment to the program since it put me on a focused path.
Mythicalstrength is gonna flap his arms and doodoo on your neck bro wish it wasn't the case
There is more than one way to 531…
?
@@devontae7262531 is just the progression for the main lifts. After that the volume is filled up with accessories/more of the main lift. There’s a lot of really fun templates actually.
@@devontae7262he’s talking about the different templates that Jim Wendler now has. It’s not the basic 5/3/1 that it used to be anymore. There are many different variations available now.
@MickieLifty it never was. Even the first 5/3/1 book has plenty of templates to run
@@TheTfraze ❤️
Straight up, 531 is a philosophy more than a program… and if you are not ready to take responsibility for your accessory work, you are not ready for 531. I burned a long time on 531 because I just wasn’t smart enough with my accessory work.
531 is fantastic. its a TEMPLATE for you to work off of and customize as you begin to plateu
There’s so many programming variations of 5/3/1 that it doesn’t seem fair to generalize it as bad for intermediates. 5/3/1 with low volume or overly basic accessory work is definitely not ideal for intermediates.
The core framework of 531 is bad. The generalization holds. The "work sets" are bad (only 1 set is stimulating, and only on 2 of the 3 weeks). The "joker sets" are downright stupid. The GPP interferes with strength and hypertrophy adaptations. The "accessory" work is fatiguing without being stimulating across all of the templates offered in 5/3/1, 5/3/1 for powerlifting, 5/3/1 forever, and beyond 5/3/1. It's bad, and it would be worthwhile to explore other programs.
@@v0idbit69 lol
@@v0idbit69''its bad because its bad''
@@snakeoo38 Imagine reading four specific reasons for why a program is bad and having the take away of "all they said is it's bad because it's bad."
@@v0idbit69 half the shit you wrong in the comments are weird justifications for not being able to create a proper regime for yourself instead of defaming 5/3/1 with baseless claims , your routine was bad not 5/3/1
I've made big gains using the 5-3-1 program. Accessory work is what you also need to be doing. Changing up those movements. Along with increasing the weight and or reps as you progress. It's all about consistency and not just doing the main lifts and the BBB...
Mind pmo to ur program. I’m trying to find what accessory lifts I should be adding. Assuming ur following the week 1 sets of 5 , week 2 sets of 3 and week 3 sets of 5 3 1
@@musabawad7230 Practically just pick a template from one of Wendler's book (531 Forever is the most comprehensive one).
I run a template called 531 Boring But Big that had 3 "phase" of sets in a day:
- The main set: the 5s/3s/531s of the main lifts
- The supplemental sets: 5x10 at 50% TM of the main lifts.
- The accessory lifts: basically any lifts that are not the main lifts, push 50 reps, pull 50 reps, and leg 25 reps.
Always the best and clear advice
531 is a great place to start when building a “power building” program. Replace some of the BBB volume with accessory work and you’ll have a program that works well for a long time
I love 5/3/1 follwed by 5/10
Then fill the accessorys to suit the current block
Yeah,thats a powerbuilding program right there,Mike is talking from the perspective of aomeone thats on the juice,but if youre the average dude with a job/school,life,doing other sports,then 531 followed by lets say some muscle building volume of the main lifts with some pullups and chinups sprinkled in will be more than enough volume
GVT IS MY SHIT. Definitely works
I modified 5/3/1 and it's been great for me. I don't think anyone is supposed to run it just off the base template but even then depending on the person the total volume might be lots. I've made huge progress off of my program and have done little more than adding warmups and a few post block accessories like concentration curls and raises on upper day
6 sets of main lift. An indefinite amount of accessory work suited to what you or I need for our goals at any given time! I've tried a lot of bad templates, 5/3/1 was never one of them.
An especially if youre natty,youre not gona be able to do 20-30 sets and recover in time,thats why I and a lot of seasoned lifters tend to recommend 531 bbb,because it freaking works,the 531 exercise is the strength builder while the 5x10 and the pullups and chinups are the muscle builder
Playing devil's advocate in defense of GVT, or at least GVT-styled programming (variations of which I also ran pretty consistently for 5~8 years after my 1~3ish year noob phase and saw steady muscle growth from a bodyweight around 155 all the way up to 175):
People often misunderstand how the volume and progression works. In 10 sets of 10 with the correctly chosen weight, the early sets are very far from hypertrophic because the RIR will be anywhere from 5~10. Somewhere around the fifth set is when the target work begins. So, 5ish sets within the hypertrophic RIR range isn't necessarily an absurd/excessive amount of volume. Of course everything *else* about the programming with this will matter (such as whether, when, and how you include other accessory lifts per muscle). I'm just pointing out that GVT style programming--whatever else its other merits or demerits--is misunderstood from the pov of working volumes.
My own typical use of it involved an every-other-week, practice-then-mastery type progression scheme whereby I'd complete the prescribed 10 sets in week 1, then add +2 reps to every set in week 2 (10x12), and then (assuming I'd completed at least 90% of the reps) I'd drop back to 10x10 but now with added weight.
For example:
Week 1 DB Bench Press 10x10 @ 140lbs
Week 2 DBBP 10x12@140lbs
Week 3 DBBP 10x10@150lbs
Etc.
This would typically get me anywhere from 6~8 weeks of training before stalling and needing deloads. RIR in final sets would gradually drop from 2~1 in week 1 until I was failing in the final set or two by week 6.
Other advantages, I thought, included time efficiency in the gym, more than adequate warmup/practice sets to help prepare joints/tendons while mastering good technique, and pretty gnarly pumps (especially DB Bench, DB rows, and FULL ROM Leg Press).
Again, this is admittedly anecdotal support using a perhaps atypical *variation* of GVT, but my point is to try to push back a bit on how we think about the "volumes" in GVT work.
Did you weigh 140 or did yiu do the 140 dumbbells?
@@jimmykruzer I was referring to weight lifted:
10x10@140lbs = 10 sets, 10 reps per set, using 140lbs each rep/set
@@Dr.MichaelMoran that's fucking strong
@@Dr.MichaelMoranthanks for the template; we’re you using fast or slow
Eccentrics ( 1 second or 2+ sections eccentrics )
thank you
The volume in 5/3/1 is on the accesory lifts. If you do the 3-4 day split you do up 10-16 set per week. But for sure it's not a bodybuilding program.
High junk volume. BBB for example has you pick a weight you can do for sets of 10 across several sets for your "volume work". That means each set of your "volume work" except for the last were really fatiguing and not very stimulating. The "work set" schema has the same problem. Your first two "work sets" are actually really fatiguing warm up sets. Your first "work set" is done with more than 10 RIR ffs. So for all of the "volume" in BBB, you actually get 2 stimulating sets (one from the top set, and one from the last "volume" set) and both were performed with high levels of fatigue. The rest of the "volume" work done are just sources of fatigue that aren't very stimulating, or worse, interfering with recovery and regressing your progress.
@@v0idbit69 Absolutely agreed. I got stuck on 531 for 2 years because Reddit tells you to (basically the only program you're allowed to run, be it strength or size). Barely any visual progress. In 2 fucking years.
5/3/1 has so many issues you need to overcome to make it good for hypertrophy - why not just run a program that actually IS good from the start?
@@DominikLH nobody runs 5/3/1 for hyperthropy , i think you did little research
Any recommendations? I've done 5x5 when I first started now I'm doing 531 mostly because I just can't pick anything. I only have barbell and dumbbells
@@mikesteven1133 if you see progress on 531 just keep doing it, you dont need to hop programs because a youtuber said so. 531 is just a rep scheme for the big compound lifts and the rest of the routine is up to you
The people I’ve heard talk shit on 5/3/1 as being “low volume” have not read the books and only referred to internet articles. It’s a template and can be altered many ways to your liking. You can have as much or as little volume as you want or can handle.
Ex: on a bench day I was getting the following
3s week
1x3 @70% 1x3 @ 80% 1x3+ (AMRAP -1) @ 90%
Couple set of jokers depending on how I felt. So 1-3 more sets of 3. Then 3-5x with my first set weight for 8 reps.
Then I would hit a close variation, like CG bench for example, on my OHP day for more work.
For the sample you provided, the first two sets of 3 aren't stimulating, but they did build some fatigue so that your performance on the only stimulating set of 3+ is somewhat compromised. If you end up using "joker" sets, then your top set in your "work" sets probably wasn't stimulating either. Using your first "work" set for 3-5 more sets 8 reps each demonstrates two things, 1) your first "work" set was way too light to stimulate anything at 3 reps (a point already covered), and 2) if you're lifting the same load for the same reps across all 3-5 then the first 2-4 sets aren't stimulating either. Without you giving specifics, I'm guessing the sets for your close variation aren't any better.
So, out of all of the sets you did, you got 1 stimulating (but compromised) set out of your "work" sets + "joker" sets, and 1 stimulating (but _highly_ compromised) set out of your 3-5 sets with your first "work" set. All of the other sets are junk volume that don't contribute towards strength or hypertrophy. You could save yourself a lot of time, effort, and recovery by skipping all the junk volume. But since junk volume is at the core of 5/3/1, you'd need to abandon it.
The people that shxt on 531 are those kids wanting to put on 100 pounds on their bench in a few months, Rome wasn't built in a day,kids😊
There is nothing wrong with 531. You just have to supplement with the right accessories, if you just do SBD then yeah you won’t get far
Unless you're a genetic freak. There's a guy at my gym who's workout consists of nothing but SBD, seemingly in that order. Squats 4 or 5 plates, deadlifts 5 or 6 plates, bench I think is 3 or 4.
Getting stronger will stimulate you. Doing 10-15 reps also stimulate but it takes longer and this destroys the body over time.
I used 5/3/1 for a long time, but Jim has released 4 books at this point and never given a detailed breakdown of %s for accessory work - just general sets x reps and no progression model. I like 5/3/1 but tossing it to a beginner without anything further on accessory work is pretty lazy on Jim’s part. Also, 5x10 on squats and deadlifts is kinda pointless- those could be structured better for boring but big. Jim’s philosophy is to keep things simple.. I agree with that, but after selling us 4 books I move comprehensive breakdown of accessories would be nice other than “don’t major in the minor leagues, sunshine!”
Biggest issue with the 5x10 concept is fatique imo. If you're hitting your last set with RPE10 and 10 reps - why did you even bother with the first 2-3 sets? Complete waste of time, they were like RPE5 at best.
Just dont do the 5x10 and go harder on accessories
what program for strength would you recommend then dr.mike
The one he wants you to pay for
You need to look at a different channel if strength is your goal, this guy is talking about hypertrophy only
what do you think about 531 for someone who's primary goal is BJJ and not powerlifting?
5/3/1 wasnt originally designed for powerlifting. Wendler designed it for himself when he had retired from powerlifting and wanted to get in shape. He now uses it to train high school football players. Watch the Chad Wesley Smith series of exercise selection for BJJ and you can still use 5/3/1 and similar programs for programming.
Its very good but you gotta test it out and see what fits you better the bare bones 531 or something like boring but big
It is quite necessary to run 5/3/1 with accessory exercises depending on what you need, which the strength of this program is in the room it allows you to add on your own needs
I'd like to see an actual in-depth critique of 5/3/1 because of all the things you can say about it, low volume is not one of them. When you add the accessory movements and assistance in, most of its programs hover somewhere between MEV/MAV for the major muscles. I understand it's the competitor for your app, and I respect the hustle, but a demonstration of why people should avoid 5/3/1 templates (of which there are dozens) would be nice to see.
Run 5/3/1 for yourself and all the variations, then report back here! 😊
@@davidbenning10Would doing it for 10 years with consistent strength and size gains count?
The best hypertrophy routine I did was a GVT, was the biggest in my life in my early 40's but strength wise 531 got me from a 315 bench for a few reps to 447 for a single at 214lbs body weight at 44. Took a little over a year but was worth it
holy shit dude....130 plus lbs progression is crazy at that age
I am 22 and i my Bench is 90kgs ..that's around 204 lbs...but i have just started the 531 this week....i will take your word for it and progress patiently
Slow and progressive is the key. Listen to your body, you'll learn when to really push, when to Delgado, when to change up a routine. I ego lifted for years in my 20's, hitting 225 for working sets of behind the neck presses. Now at 56 my joints are paying the price. I'll never get back to my max lifts again but still go heavy enough to induce growth to a degree.
@@bigdude382 I'll keep that in mind brother ❤️...thanks for being honest ....Stay strong king 🔥💪🎉
I suspect you might have had some genetics to help you there. You are so far past what I could expect at the same age it’s not funny
I’m looking too start GVT; quick question when you implemented it was you using a weight/resistance close too you’re 15 or 20 rep max and were you using fast or slow eccentrics
So what are the alternative training plans for someone who started off with 5/3/1 if they’d like to continue their hypertrophy past the beginner phase ?
just increase the volume progressively over a fair amount of time.
There are no useful training plans. Adjust your program to fit your abilities and lifestyle. Add weight and reps over time.
You can continue on 5/3/1 a long time if you run the high volume programs and plan through the long term well. But I also cycle my 5/3/1 cycles with the Greg Nuckols SBS programs.
RP has a playlist for that.
th-cam.com/video/KCqJPPxMuM0/w-d-xo.html
You could do Boring But Big or Building The Monolith from Wendler
FSL is fixing the low volume problem in 5/3/1.
Did FSL for a while. For me, the 5x5/3/1 (which is 1 less set, but higher intensity) has been 100% awesome.
What video is this from?
I did 531 and got stronger. Its not enough for decent hypertrophy. Just throwing 50-100 reps per exercise isn't enough, it's the quality of those reps that count. I grew more out of doing 2-3 hard sets using a rep goal system. And superset everything. It's not a bodybuilding program for me.
Yeah it's a strength program. I've gotten so much muscles from doing my own bodybuilding split that now I seek more real strength. I'm going to begin on 5/3/1 + big but boring and other accessory exercises
Try 531 bbb,its a variation with some muscle building sets aded in,and its easy to understand and follow😉
I will say after using 5/3/1 for literally only 2 months after no proper programming or deload in 1.75 years of training before:
I haven’t went from:
435-470 Squat
210-235 Paused Bench
535-565 Deadlift
184-189 BW
You have to know what accessories to use and how to fill the rest of the volume after the main lift even if you use BBB because the intensity is relatively low on BBB Sets.
I’ve also gotten much bigger in my triceps which kind of is helping my poverty bench, and my legs have never been bigger or stronger and they’ve always been a really strong point for me. I’ve been shocked at the fact they got bigger because I thought I maxed them out 😂
In the beginning it is,but once you go through a few cycles youre gona die after the 5x10 sets😂
will this video be uploaded to this channel? really would like to hear Mike's opinion on 531. If not then where
Saying 5/3/1 is low volume is absurd because the amount of volume the lifter does on their accessories after the main lift is totally up to their discretion. 5/3/1 is nothing more than a 3 week wave of progression for the main lifts followed by as many accessories needed to elicit a hypertrophic response. I’m not saying it’s the be all end all of programming but it’s essentially a proven old school approach that has stood the test of time.
I think Mike is refering to the bare bones 531,not its variations like boring but big or other of 531s variations with even more volume 😂
@@zezeti2246 Volume is highly overrated anyways. Mechanical tension is the main driver of hypertrophy by a country mile. If anything many 531 templates have too much volume.
@@andrewsmith5512 I think it depends on the person,do you want only strength,go for a bare bones 531,do you also want the muscle building component,go for something like 531 boring but big
@@zezeti2246 Strength training and hypertrophy training are the same thing. The only difference is strength training requires a very small amount of heavy lifting for neurological efficiency. One rep at roughly 90% per week has been proven to produce almost if not maximal neural adaptations for any big compound movement. BBB definitely puts size on you but I personally think there are much more efficient, less fatiguing ways to program assistance work.
@@andrewsmith5512 at least for me,programs that incorporate both strength and muscle building work the best,they bleed into each other in a sense,the low reps help the muscle building exercises to push higher weights at higher reps and the higher reps improve my capacity work in lower reps
It depends,yeah,531 on its own is kinda minimalist in a sense,but there are all sorts of variants of it that you can try,there is boring but big,boring but strong,build the monolith,if you ask me,I think you should milk every variation of what its worth,try everyone for at least 3 cycles
I'm about 5 months in and have no idea what you just said
The gym is an auxiliary activity which supports physical transformation. however if it is your primary avenue of achieving your “goals”, youre EXTREMELY limiting the potential positive results. You’ll just end up having a hard time wiping your ass or scratching your back while wasting a LOT of time when the same results can be achieved faster and easier via other methods.
Goober take. Post body
what do these numbers mean - 5/3/1? duration of the eccentric/pause/concentric phases?
It's a three week workout where you do three main sets on a compound lift like bench, squat, deadlift, strict press. First week is five reps at 65% of 1rm, then five reps at 75% of 1rm, then an amrap set of at least five reps at 85%. Second week is three reps at 70%, three reps at 80% and an amrap set of at least three reps at 90% of 1rm. Third week is five reps at 75% , three reps at 85%, and an amrap set of at least one rep at 95% of one rep max.
Forgot to mention there's a deload week in week 4.
Look up wendlers 531 on google,is a pretty simple strength building program
Building The Monolith and other 5/3/1 variants are great. He must be talking about the basic 5/3/1 which I believe is 3 sets of a compound lift. He doesn't recommend other programs as well so what does he want his audience doing?
His RP app😂
So do 5/3/1/3/5
Do back off sets after your top set
What
@@drinkinouttacups2665 It’s a pyramid. work your way up, then work your way down and put your weights away. 👍🏽
Anyone have an opinion on the 5TRM method?
I did 5/3/1 and got the biggest than I ever did from any other form of training? How then?
My current program is 9 sets of 1 at 85% of my one rep max but I fell like thst s way to many reps at 85%
What video was this clip taken from?
Yes
I would also like to know
The whole point of 5/3/1 is the volume of the main lift is low and it’s made up through accessory work.
This isn’t a great take tbh.
Mike said the same thing about conjugate and it’s flat wrong.
The volume can be as high as you want.
For example - Wendler reccomends 50-100 total reps of pushing / pulling + extra accessories after a top set of bench.
It’s a good take, with a very short rational explanation - you expect a thesis from a YT short, you get what you deserve.
5/3/1: Do that and then do more if you want to, you really don’t need to be spoon fed your training.
Now that Wendler is posting on YT I hope he responds
Jim ignores criticism lol😂 and rightly so.
@@Xplora213I would ignore this criticism too as it’s flat wrong.
There's an EliteFTS video where someone mentions a criticism Bret Contreras has of 5/3/1 and his response is essentially "IDGAF. My kids dominated in the football field this past year with their athleticism."
Only do German volume training if you’re German. It doesn’t work for other races.
I’m German! Well German decent lol. Honestly I just found out about German volume training 5 min ago and was hoping he breaks it down further on why it’s good/ bad.
Just ask the juice...
“531 isn’t good” the creator squared over 1000
He said for hypertrophy, he also mentioned it might make you strong. Listen to what he is saying mate.
It's worth noting that Wendler never used 531 to compete and didn't develop it until after he'd retired.
This channel prioritizes bodybuilding. Everything should be viewed through that lens first.
531 isnt even a powerlifting program dude lol
What is german volume training? Never heard of it in my entire life even though I'm german
nah, max 7/5/3 is just perfect
There's good things to take from 531. I use principles from it but I don't follow it to the t.
531 main lifts, supplemental sets, 75-100 reps of pull, 75-100 reps of push, and 75-100 reps of single leg or core exercises, not enough
I made the best intermediate progression on 5/3/1. It’s all about how you set up your accessory work and progressing on it. A lot of people half-ass it and that’s why they don’t make good progress. If you do 5 push and 5 pull sets on both upper workouts you’re already over 10 sets per week of each. 5/3/1 provides a good way to warm up the nervous system before hypertrophy work, similar to conjugate.
Nothing works according to this guy
Do you even lift bro?
so what you do
Damn….5/3/1 was way too much volume for me. Even doing it two days a week was a lot
You can adjust your supplementary and assistant work. For example in Boring But Big you can do 3 sets of 10 instead of 5. Or just do the main lift with the top set and then just do few sets of a another exercise or movement and stop. Adjust the volume depending on your recovery and progression.
@@xristos722 great advice, but I definitely tried that. I moved down to 3x10, and then tried doing for example 3x10 of RDLs after squats and front squats on DL day. Never did the “I’m not doing Jack sh*t” tho. I will try it at some point. Someone had a log on the Starting Strength forums and made some good progress.
So what I'm hearing is do both?
Really !!! 5/3/1 is a thing? How the world do you get any amount of meaningful work\volume in with that...
Everyone feeling the need to defend 5/3/1
cause while it's not without it's faults it gets misrepresented a lot.
This is, in part, on Wendler himself because he decided to hide all the refinements and improvements that he made over the years behind a paywall/book.
Not saying that he doesn't deserve to get paid, but that this is just a consequence of that decision.
Ugh then he goes back to the "body building is the be all end all" attitude
The color are the other way around 🇩🇪
I feel like theres only two kinds of programs out there. Either it's 3 or 4 day programs with waaaaay too little volume, that will stop working immediately once noobie gains stop, or it's these psychotic "squat 6 days a week" style plateau breaker programs. But real, sustainable intermediate programs are very hard to find.
Thats why a lot of lifters with a decade or 2 of lifting might have built a program for themselves because not everyone is the same,some progress more on low volume,others on medium volume others need to train more often,others less,and you find out all these stuffd after youve been throw a few programs and seen how your body responds
@@zezeti2246 yes but where are the programs that are suitable for the average 99% of lifters?
Maybe it’s because I’m Jewish like Dr. Mike, but anything with German in its title, I have an aversion to it.
Does that include using someone like the "Boring but big" template?
People usually just attack the idea of doing 3 sets and nothing else. And even if they are aware of BBB they attack the "5x10 at 50%" setup instead of something like "BBB at FSL percentages with daily whole body assistance" like 5/3/1 Forever would program it.
Your app is so hard to understand 😭
Isn’t 531 like 8 sets a week per muscle group and GVT is 10? How is that high volume?
Besides the barbell work which can vary in volume/intensity from program to program, 5/3/1 has daily assistance work that is anywhere from 25-100 reps of daily push, pull, and single leg/ab depending on how hard/easy the barbell work is.
@@ElloAsty 4-days per week. Not daily. Typically with a frequency of once per week per lift. Also, counting reps instead of sets for determining volume leads to junk volume, which 5/3/1 is loaded with.
GVT is doing like 10 sets of 10 with a 1 min rest in-between sets. Using same weight.... Rest longer if your adding weight each set.
Is this really called "German Volume" 😁?
5x5 ftw
He dosent know what hes tslking about, the steriods fried his brain cells
Dude. If you take a break you’ll get your gains back. It’s two steps forward, one step back. So much more optimal than staying on it and grinding for YEARS under slow progress. Your body will transform in far superior ways if you go in for deep dives then full come off the lifting and do other shit like hardcore yoga or become a bad ass trail runner or build a fuckin farm in your yard. Gym heads are weird when they get sooooo obsessed and boxed into the one activity of lifting weights. That body isn’t even functional or evolutionarily attractive. You’ve got to be sick in the head to desire that and obsess over it. No shade, if it happens as a result of a harmonious and balanced lifestyle, however I have yet to see an example of that. I step in the gym for 4 months and roided freaks ask me how I get so ripped with lean muscle and so much strength….. it’s certainly NOT from grinding in the gym. While that’s about 10-20% of it, the VARIETY of active lifestyles are the real answer. You won’t get there in the gym, fellas. Look at any super athlete influencer posting gym content. I would bet that less than 5% of them ONLY lifted waits. I’d bet the other 95% have either played sports or had a physically demanding occupation. The gym is an auxiliary to the other things in life that really transform you 🧠
Wasted so much time with 5/3/1, what a joke of a program (especially in the initial "3 weeks of low volume training / 1 week of embarsssingly light deload" form)
I did 5/3/1 for about two years. I bought all of the 5/3/1 books, tried several templates, and I was going no-where fast. Over the first year on the 531 unaltered train, I maybe added 100 lbs to my total. The second year I regressed due to injuries, likely due to the limited exercise selection, high junk volume, low meaningful volume, limited variation, and poor fatigue management in the program. I started making changes to the program. The most significant change I made as reversing the order of the work sets, to start with the heaviest load while trying to hit RPE 8. The program worked _waaaaay_ better that way. I was nearly getting newbie gains again. But it was still really bad.After a few injuries and big regresses in progress, I switched to hypertrophy training. RP's hypertrophy book helped piece together a good program, and now my hypertrophy work is making me stronger than the "strength" program I was following with 5/3/1. 5/3/1 wasted a lot of my time. Total garbage.
Whats 531
It's not "total garbage" just because you're not intelligent enough to run it properly.
I tried 5/3/1 a few times before but it felt weird doing only one or two heavy sets. I suspect his minimalist advice is either based on very seasoned old powerlifters or malnourished teenagers.
Meanwhile almost the entire internet has preached minimalism with the lifts that in my experience give the most gains like I've supposed to do one heavy set of overhead press, call it quits and do 5x10 good mornings or whatever randomly picked assistance? Madness.
5/3/1 isnt the problem , your miss-use of the programm was, i have been running 5/3/1 bbb with added accesory and 7th week deload and i nearly doubled my strength
@@snakeoo38 newbie gains.
Ne Bruder ehrlich vertrau mir mal. Den Split hat Opi schon gemacht und Opi war immer stabil unterwegs. Schwer, falsch und viel Volumen.
Finally somebody tells it like it is about 5/3/1. It’s a bad program combining low volume and low intensity for negative gains.
Even the folks defending it here say that for it to be of any use you have to change the program and add stuff to it. Not much of a program is it then? Even more framework-y stuff like GZCL and Juggernaut require relatively little fiddling to get right.
Dad?
Quit listening to all these "experts". Go to the gym and lift your butt off for 6 months and you'll see an incredible difference. Oh, and if you're fat, eat less, and if you're skinny, eat more. You're welcome.
Stupid. 5/3/1 does work. In regards to low volume, you're SUPPOSED to add accessories for higher reps. You can easily adjust he frequency of each exercise
I love hit training.
GVT is the least German thing ever
homeboy's got quite a game going here. just criticize other methods, offer no solutions in your clips, plug your EXPENSIVE app
5 3 1 boys really triggered. I did 5 3 1 and I read Wendler's first take on it. He absolutely suggests only doing main lift once per week on 5 3 1 session. You can walk it back all you want with other ideas, but that is absolutely the idea behind 5 3 1. very intense top set for busy individuals.
Wrong he say to do the accessory exercises to build muscle
lol all the 531 fanboys in the comments
I don’t mind this guy but I can’t stand the way he looks lol
On 5/3/1 boring but big I have squatted 350 lbs for 5x10 in under 20 minutes. The program is not just 3 sets and nothing else.
And exactly 1 of those sets stimulated any kind of desired adaptation while the other 4 were fatiguing for no reason. If you're squatting the same load for the same reps on set 5 as you are in set 1, then sets 1, 2, 3, and 4 weren't challenging enough to be meaningful.
@@v0idbit69 I'd be closing the door on programs by Jim Wendler, Greg Nuckols, and Chad Wesley Smith if I thought multiple sets of the same weight were a waste of time. I know their programs work for me and have made me stronger so I don't really care what a TH-cam comment is telling me.
@@ElloAsty Abandoning 531 and Juggernaut is a good thing. They are both hot garbage for strength and hypertrophy. Juggernaut starts with a phase designed to accumulate fatigue. That's a _very dumb_ approach to gaining strength or hypertrophy. It's a good approach to developing cardio and endurance. If that's your goal, why are you even mad about my criticism that these programs are awful for strength and hypertrophy?
Nuckols' programs are mostly decent. If you switch around the work sets so that you start with the heaviest sets and work your way down to the lighter ones , his intermediate programs are golden. Even as-is, all of the work sets put you in the 0-3 RIR range, which is within the strength and hypertrophy sweet spot. These programs are incomparable with 531 and Juggernaut, because they are actually well put together.
@@v0idbit69 I am not mad about your criticism. That would be devoting way too much energy to you man. I'm happily setting up for a BBB squat session right now I gotta get back to. Hopefully by the end of the year I can have 355 or 360 for 5x10.
Anything german is generally a really bad idea, greetings from Germany :)
WAS IST GERMAN VOLUME
NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
Look at all the mad comments. 5/3/1 sucks lmao
For me is either 12 10 8 or 15 12 8