The colors on your graph were displayed wrong. When discussing the block against the control, your graph showed the color of the plate. Keep up the great work BRS, never miss your videos!
The mystery of the nitrate curve (spikes and falls) in the empty tank has to do with microbial growth curves. The phases are: lag, exponential, stationary, and death. Essentially there is initially insufficient bacteria to process the waste so you see the first spike, then bacteria divide exponentially resulting in the decline in nitrates, the population temporarily stabilizes as death equals growth, then begins the death phase and you see another spike in nitrates. The only real difference between the tanks is in regards to surface area, which led to differences in the length of time of the exponential and stationary phases. If you had continued the experiment you would no doubt have observed the same curve repeating in all tanks. Instead of re-doing the experiment, just contact a microbiologist. =)
@@gold3nrul311 No they definitely relate to population dynamics. Individual cells while having elements of growth are mainly dividing and not necessarily undergoing lengthy grow phases. What @Turul HEMA said; It's how I would interpret these results too. I would also think that other factors that ended up inhibiting nitrate processing occurred somehow also - since technically the marine pure should have had less come the end of the experiment as it was consistently lower up until about week 8 or 9. It's a lot of food to add with nothing macroscopic to pick up some of the load. My guess is there was the accumulation of some inhibiting factor, or at around week 8 or 9 the microbes hit some kind of carrying capacity issue which was only delayed by the increased surface area. Either way, it's interesting that a tank with just water ended up in a similar spot, but the path they took is probably the most informative part of the experiment.
It is awesome to see the continued dedication to the scientific method, even so far as to admit mistakes, dismiss (but still report) the results, and plan a whole new test, despite the time and effort going into the first attempt. Bravo.
You guys are truly doing invaluable work for the community. A tremendous resource. Will be buying from you guys for that alone. Well done. Keep up the amazing work.
I ran a block in a low flow area of my refugium, even seeded it with a carbon source and bacteria. Over a year the tank never saw significant reduction in nitrates (but I did note higher Aluminum levels). I removed the block and went back to live rock and macroalgae in the fuge. These experiments are great, keep up the good work BRS.
When conducting an experiment, sometimes failures are just as important as your successes. I'd like to commend you all on resisting the temptation to fudge the results in order to satisfy a conclusion hungry audience. Your honest, iterative and scientific approach to your methodology is why I love this series so much and feel it is so valuable. Just speaking for myself, this series has re-invigorated my love for my tank by getting me to take a hard look at the systems and practices I've implemented and asking if there were things I could be doing better. This has resulted in weeks of constant tweaking, tinkering and adjustments and my tank is thanking me for it. And so in turn I'd like to genuinely thank you for all the hard work and money (I know these set ups you're running don't come cheap) you've invested into your reefing series.
Love to see a followup on this. I have a system with a MarinePure block in a low flow area of the sump and my nitrates run around 2 ppm without any carbon dosing. Correlation not causation for sure, but it's hard not to suspect it's the block. For what it's worth, I have my block shoved into a corner of the chamber it's in rather than sitting in the middle. Figure that reduces flow even more through the block.
what the diff between expensive marine pure blocks and cheap bio media if both are only able to process amonia and nitrite on it's own? Processing ammonia and nitrite is a very basic function of any bio media.
I love how you guys run all of these experiments because you probably come close to type of media and amount of media people run in their own aquariums and they can decide for themselves whether or not they're running too much media/matrix. I'm not experienced enough to know how much media would contribute to the phrase "nitrate factory" I've come across in Reefing but these Tests are a good indicator for me at least to know an approximation on how much media I should be running on my own tank.
I’ll weigh in here. The empty tank had more free flow in the tank to break down the food. The bacteria in the tanks with blocks congregated in the brick itself. Therefore, the bacteria couldn’t break down the food in the open water because of lack of flow. I’m sure if the blocks were put in direct flow as a filter, they’d be able to process the waste better.
I was all about this stuff until I heard about the "possible" leaching of aluminum into the tank.... hope you guys can work that into the next round of testing. On another note keep up the videos I'm really enjoying them!
You guys deserve every single drop of respect the community deposits on your company, this video surely earn even more of mine... If I lived on the US I would buy all my gear from BRS no questions asked!
They say one of these equal 1300 plastic bio balls, but that isn't true in my experience. I can tell you this, I have a 40 cube that I heavily feed twice daily. I put one box of the 1.5 inch balls of MarinePure. It definitely made a difference for the better. I had them in the AIO where the waterfall is in the middle media chamber. It was a bit loud so I ordered another box just to make them reach up higher and quiet the tank. Well, that was a good choice as ALL of my nitrates and phosphates disappeared. I would rather dose those as have to combat them. Another thing, one box is plenty when trying to cycle quickly. Don't add too much or the tank won't cycle as the media is filtering out the ammonia before it can convert. So once your tank cycles (when performing a 24 hour cycle, these work great) after a couple of months, add more of this media and you'll never have a nitrate issue.
This was a fantastic video. I appreciate the break down of testing and the ability to critique your own test plan! I wish i could find more videos like this on the internet. Thank you.
also need to factor in pores being plugged with detritus from the food. there is a reason it is highly recommended to use filter socks, foam, or floss to prescreen out detritus.
Can the Marine Pure blocks be cleaned after 8-10 weeks? I'm wondering if they just reach a point where it has collected more than it can handle and it releases everything back into the tank causing the spikes later on.
"We could have taken this further but we decided there were some fundamental flaws in this test and we decided to start over" Paraphrasing heavily -- But this is why we love the videos. I'd like to emphasize that once in a blue moon, you've given very honest and negative reviews / thoughts on some of the products you sell. No shop does this. I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way -- I mean that as a genuine compliment on how nobody is as honest as BRS has been with their customers.
It would be interesting to have you phasing in a fresh block a week before taking out the old block around the 9.5 week mark to clean thoroughly and see if you maintain the generally low level of nitrates and continue that maintenance cycle. Bacterial film overgrowth may simply clog up the internals. Die off occurs, releasing nitrogenous waste and the cycle somewhat recovers itself.
That makes a lot of sense! Love to see them do that to. I know someone selling the nice caribe sea life rock and bioballs for 3o bucks. Think I will give it a go!
Very interesting. I wonder what this means in the long term. I guess your next test will help get a clearer picture. Good video. Thank you for this series.
I've been running a deep sand bed and a bunch of live rock on my 180 for 15 years now with zero water changes. The only issue I've had is when I go on business trips and the family forgets to feed the fish.
Use all those stable functioning tanks at your business. Know the baseline nitrates and phosphate levels then put in just one specified regimen to each system and have each employees tank monitor for change. Continue the routine feeding and other water change and maintenance that is done without variance.
I and several others I know have used plain old wet dry filters w/bio balls for decades (new and old systems) without the nitrate problems I hear online. Yes we keep big, healthy and diverse reefs too! Why don't you try something old school? Ours have an air stone in the water underneath the bio balls or just the tube inserted into the bottom of the ball cluster to increase gas exchange. When power goes out they become submerged as the sump back fills and don't die off instantly. The live rock in the tank can act as the backup and replenish the bacteria quickly anyway. Blue floss on the drip tray changed weekly and maybe some Polyfilter changed every month keeps particles down greatly. Filter sock in the prefilter column takes out even more. Those bricks are the same thing just condensed, no? From the sump the water is pumped in-line (Iwaki 55RT) through a Lifegard pleated particle filter - into a modified Lifegard Chemi Filter full of Chemipure then through a Lifegard UV and back into the aquarium. There is also a skimmer in the sump. I change the pleat every two weeks and the carbon once a month. I also change about 5-10% per week depending. Just because its old doesn't mean its obsolete. It could just be that manufacturers have been pushing new products to increase business and have created a viscous circle of number chasing when a proven method has been there all along...aren't a lot of people going back to T5's again?
keep the great testing coming. even mistakes made are great education tools. Hopefully everyone show there support for these great videos by buying from BRS
did you seed the media and allow it to colonize before polluting the water? Without that step it’s useless. What are are you purporting to be testing if not seasoned media? bare ceramics? Even your control tank should be seasoned (surfaces) to be consistent. Bacterial mitosis is exponential, even a small surface variable matters after time... R.E.Dillon PhD
I second this, the nutrient removal capabilities that I have seen from marinepure/carbon dosing took a good while to get going, about 6 months. Once it gets cooking though, it cooks hot !
If you try this with a bacterial monoculture, you will always have a rollercoaster curve. Combining different methods with different organisms like bacteria & algae will probably result in a more stable result where one can pick up when the other is temporarily cratering. My guess as someone who has never had an aquarium but has done some biology in university.
Yes many people would be interested in comparing marinepure with Brightwell Aquatics NO3 Bio Brick. One would assume that Brightwells product would be more efficient at removing nitrates due to the box showing brightwells has more surface area. Only a test would show the results. Also there is many rumors going around that they release metals, like aluminum, which I believe are most likely false, so a test would resolve this large rumor floating around on facebook saltwater clubs and online forums. REPLY 4
Mr G I used turbo start for my 250ltr about 2 years ago. It worked a treat. I had no issues. That said.. I couldn’t get it this time round and have a 650ltr to set up in about 2 weeks. I’m going to use Bacto blend by Fauna Marin. It’s what they had in stock and recommend at Seahorse Aquariums in Dublin. It’s the best I can get without having to pay import duty buying online.
Really enjoy the videos from this channel! I thought this was a pretty neat experiment and it had interesting results. From my own studies its usually seen as a good idea to have the most data possible in order to get a conclusive result, and just doing one experiment generally wont give you conclusive data that you're looking for. You guy's should try running this experiment with 3 of each of these media and see if they all exhibit the same trend or not. It would give you more data at once and might give you a better picture of how each form is functioning.
How about testing the Natureef denitrator(with Phosphate option). I have heard of people using this system to eliminate water changes. Some on the forum still do less frequent water changes, but all say it's done wonders for their corals and keeping the tank parameter rock solid. As with all things, if it sounds too good.... Their philosophy is the water changes still create up and down levels of chemistry that shocks the livestock, so coming up with a system that doesn't require the yo-yo effect is the best option of all. Just like the ocean.
The plot should be designed using identical apparent volumen of every media. I mean, one block, two plates or whatever and a jar of balls top up to the dame volume of the plates and blocks. It would be very interesting whether you tried Matrix, Biohome and Ocean Free 3dm. In any case I would set the block and plates standing, all the media seeded with old muck from a dirty old filter and water and media feeded with minerales for the bacteria growth besides a nice water flow impacting every media.
These tests could also be evidence that the carbon dosing folks are correct in their assertion that anaerobic bacteria may be nutrient limited at some point which could cause nitrate levels to flip-flop as those colonies die off and release their pent up nutrients to feed the next generation. I am most looking forward to a marine pure block test with regular dosing of NO3:PO4-X
This is a fantastic experiment. May I suggest when you retry this experiment, have several tanks with the same changed variable. Then you should average the results within each controlled variable group.
Sorry to hear about the test results of your balls......but I have a question. Have you done an in depth look at Miracle mud? I'm a huge fan, but only keep freshwater flora/fauna. Any thoughts on these applications for freshwater, or alternatives that can be used?
The problem with these blocks is that it only treats a very small amount of the water, simply because water always follows the path of less resistance. It flows AROUND the block, not through it. The same by the way with life rock. There is hardly any flow inside the micropores, even more, that water inside is trapped because it can't overcome the pressure of being pushed in. It simply can't flow back out of the pore.
This was in a system without livestock, water changes, or any other form of nutrient control. Bioload levels here can be higher then in a newly established system as well. This was mainly to see how the different the biomedia performed under the same conditions.
Thanks. I understand that, but I think the reefer needs to realize this can according to your study and data occur as well in a stocked tank. Swings could be problematic, which was my point. You have multiple multiple fully functioning and knowledgeable reef keepers in your employ. You gave a great tour of the place. Why not let them do some monitoring with a simple single change and see how they affect results and nitrate and phosphate levels. That would be more real life.
Hi BRS team I already have 2 marine pure block at low flow. Can i put new marine pure at high flow area, maybe 8000LPH? The water flow from downside to upside.
It sounds like you guys went through a PhD program. It takes years to teach graduate students how to learn from failed experiments. Unless an experiment failed completely you can always learn from it and improve the next round of testing. Trust me I am a Dr.
I’m tempted to use this in my sump but I was wondering with a sand bed wouldn’t that have enough bacteria to handle the bioload? Bacteria will grow on every surface of your tank/sump as long as their is a food source.
I would also think that other factors that ended up inhibiting nitrate processing occurred somehow also - since technically the marine pure should have had less come the end of the experiment as it was consistently lower up until about week 8 or 9. It's a lot of food to add with nothing macroscopic to pick up some of the load. My guess is there was the accumulation of some inhibiting factor, or at around week 8 or 9 it hit some kind of saturation point. Or, the microbes hit some kind of carrying capacity issue which was only delayed by the increased surface area. Additionally the final resting level of around 50-60ppm might be a product of applying the same feeding regime to each of the tanks - that's interesting also as I'm guessing the nitrate earlier might have merely been sequestered rather than removed. Either way, it's interesting that a tank with just water ended up in a similar spot, but the path they took is probably the most informative part of the experiment.
for my reefer 170 i want to put more space for bacteria for the nitrogen cycle and also de-nitratefication. i am thinking about marine pure block ore the maxspect nano-tech bio block which in my eyes look better as its has a stronger structure. What would you reccomend. Also is it better to clean it the first time with cold tap water of warm tap water. Somethimes in warm solution polution can disolve better then in cold water but i don.t know it will damaged the structure?
If you're concerned about how fragile the block is, you could also try out the bricks from Brightwell. We've found the Brightwell bricks to be some of the more durable ones available at the moment. A rinse in warm water shouldn't be an issue for the bricks.
I think water needs to move consistently thru the blocks. Sitting on the bottom of a tank with little water motion can't help. I use my blocks in my sump in the last stage before going back to the tank. All water passes thru the 3 blocks I have in my 420 reef. And to be honest, I can raise my nitrate for the life of me. And its actually hurting my corals. Too much of a good thing I guess.
I'm looking (over two years later) for the follow-on study that re-looked at this but can't find the video...did the follow-on study ever happen? Maybe BRS can sticky it to the end of this video for future watchers?
Really enjoyed this but will you also use the marine pure balls in the next investigation? They're much easier to find space for. Also, are there lights on the tank? Blue and other color wave lengths will impact the denitrifying bacteria
:), I completely missed that and it took me awhile to figure out what you are talking about. Thanks, I make this kind of mistake from time to time. I tell people to listen to what I mean and not what I say.
The colors on your graph were displayed wrong. When discussing the block against the control, your graph showed the color of the plate. Keep up the great work BRS, never miss your videos!
BRS investigates is my FAVORITE youtube series. Your team does a fantastic job!
Same here! Love this series!
@@YouLoveRyanSeacrest my dog loves it do he hears today on and comes running
The mystery of the nitrate curve (spikes and falls) in the empty tank has to do with microbial growth curves. The phases are: lag, exponential, stationary, and death. Essentially there is initially insufficient bacteria to process the waste so you see the first spike, then bacteria divide exponentially resulting in the decline in nitrates, the population temporarily stabilizes as death equals growth, then begins the death phase and you see another spike in nitrates. The only real difference between the tanks is in regards to surface area, which led to differences in the length of time of the exponential and stationary phases. If you had continued the experiment you would no doubt have observed the same curve repeating in all tanks. Instead of re-doing the experiment, just contact a microbiologist. =)
aren't those phases just for individual cells? not necessarily directly correlating to the population of cells
You wrote all of that and it’s all nonsense you tool
@@gold3nrul311 No they definitely relate to population dynamics. Individual cells while having elements of growth are mainly dividing and not necessarily undergoing lengthy grow phases. What @Turul HEMA said; It's how I would interpret these results too. I would also think that other factors that ended up inhibiting nitrate processing occurred somehow also - since technically the marine pure should have had less come the end of the experiment as it was consistently lower up until about week 8 or 9. It's a lot of food to add with nothing macroscopic to pick up some of the load. My guess is there was the accumulation of some inhibiting factor, or at around week 8 or 9 the microbes hit some kind of carrying capacity issue which was only delayed by the increased surface area. Either way, it's interesting that a tank with just water ended up in a similar spot, but the path they took is probably the most informative part of the experiment.
It is awesome to see the continued dedication to the scientific method, even so far as to admit mistakes, dismiss (but still report) the results, and plan a whole new test, despite the time and effort going into the first attempt. Bravo.
You guys are truly doing invaluable work for the community. A tremendous resource. Will be buying from you guys for that alone. Well done. Keep up the amazing work.
I ran a block in a low flow area of my refugium, even seeded it with a carbon source and bacteria. Over a year the tank never saw significant reduction in nitrates (but I did note higher Aluminum levels). I removed the block and went back to live rock and macroalgae in the fuge. These experiments are great, keep up the good work BRS.
When conducting an experiment, sometimes failures are just as important as your successes. I'd like to commend you all on resisting the temptation to fudge the results in order to satisfy a conclusion hungry audience. Your honest, iterative and scientific approach to your methodology is why I love this series so much and feel it is so valuable.
Just speaking for myself, this series has re-invigorated my love for my tank by getting me to take a hard look at the systems and practices I've implemented and asking if there were things I could be doing better. This has resulted in weeks of constant tweaking, tinkering and adjustments and my tank is thanking me for it. And so in turn I'd like to genuinely thank you for all the hard work and money (I know these set ups you're running don't come cheap) you've invested into your reefing series.
Love to see a followup on this. I have a system with a MarinePure block in a low flow area of the sump and my nitrates run around 2 ppm without any carbon dosing. Correlation not causation for sure, but it's hard not to suspect it's the block. For what it's worth, I have my block shoved into a corner of the chamber it's in rather than sitting in the middle. Figure that reduces flow even more through the block.
I use the pure media gems in my canister and are working perfectly and my reef is thriving
Are you running a reef tank on canister?? How do you have it set up? I am tires of my sump!
Any result is a result. Use it to build the next test.
Good stuff.
I'm not sure what is conclusive on nitrate 5 years later but I think that the big Marine Pure blocks are a fantastic bio filter.
what the diff between expensive marine pure blocks and cheap bio media if both are only able to process amonia and nitrite on it's own? Processing ammonia and nitrite is a very basic function of any bio media.
I still love marine pure
When I am servicing tanks I often remove other media when needed and replace it with marine pure and get a better result
Do you keep them in high flow or ??
thanks for all you guys are doing for the reefing community ryan. where would we all be without brs?!
wow hats off to BRS. very thorough and well executed. you've earned my business, thank you
Your experiments are awesome. It's not fluffed, just real world testing.
I love how you guys run all of these experiments because you probably come close to type of media and amount of media people run in their own aquariums and they can decide for themselves whether or not they're running too much media/matrix. I'm not experienced enough to know how much media would contribute to the phrase "nitrate factory" I've come across in Reefing but these Tests are a good indicator for me at least to know an approximation on how much media I should be running on my own tank.
I’ll weigh in here. The empty tank had more free flow in the tank to break down the food. The bacteria in the tanks with blocks congregated in the brick itself. Therefore, the bacteria couldn’t break down the food in the open water because of lack of flow. I’m sure if the blocks were put in direct flow as a filter, they’d be able to process the waste better.
That is an interesting point! Something to consider if we look into testing this Bio Media again. 🙂
I totally applaud you guys @BRS for making the effort and time to do this. If our Hobby was trial/error there would be no reef tanks
I was all about this stuff until I heard about the "possible" leaching of aluminum into the tank.... hope you guys can work that into the next round of testing. On another note keep up the videos I'm really enjoying them!
You guys deserve every single drop of respect the community deposits on your company, this video surely earn even more of mine... If I lived on the US I would buy all my gear from BRS no questions asked!
The BRS scientific approach to reefing is outstanding and makes it way more fun! Thank you!
They say one of these equal 1300 plastic bio balls, but that isn't true in my experience. I can tell you this, I have a 40 cube that I heavily feed twice daily. I put one box of the 1.5 inch balls of MarinePure. It definitely made a difference for the better. I had them in the AIO where the waterfall is in the middle media chamber. It was a bit loud so I ordered another box just to make them reach up higher and quiet the tank. Well, that was a good choice as ALL of my nitrates and phosphates disappeared. I would rather dose those as have to combat them. Another thing, one box is plenty when trying to cycle quickly. Don't add too much or the tank won't cycle as the media is filtering out the ammonia before it can convert. So once your tank cycles (when performing a 24 hour cycle, these work great) after a couple of months, add more of this media and you'll never have a nitrate issue.
This was a fantastic video. I appreciate the break down of testing and the ability to critique your own test plan! I wish i could find more videos like this on the internet. Thank you.
also need to factor in pores being plugged with detritus from the food. there is a reason it is highly recommended to use filter socks, foam, or floss to prescreen out detritus.
The rise and fall pattern of the control seems like a logistics function situation happening to the population of bacteria. Awesome tests!
It's easy to explain. They pores became clogged due to the lack of mechanical filtration. The media became the same as the control once clogged.
That’s why I use the balls in my canister as they don’t clog
Can the Marine Pure blocks be cleaned after 8-10 weeks? I'm wondering if they just reach a point where it has collected more than it can handle and it releases everything back into the tank causing the spikes later on.
Matthew Tallman that's exactly what I was thinking. Good eye .
Exactly what I was thinking, its been well over 4months gonna wash my block now!
I don't think it would release anything...but it could and would get clogged after a while...you would likely have to replace it with a new one
"We could have taken this further but we decided there were some fundamental flaws in this test and we decided to start over"
Paraphrasing heavily -- But this is why we love the videos.
I'd like to emphasize that once in a blue moon, you've given very honest and negative reviews / thoughts on some of the products you sell. No shop does this. I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way -- I mean that as a genuine compliment on how nobody is as honest as BRS has been with their customers.
Hey Ryan will you put that block in your tank or the BRS 160
Keep up the awesome work BRS. Love that you do this for us.
As usual, great video! I don't think i have found a BRS video which i didn't like. Good luck for Test#2 !
It would be interesting to have you phasing in a fresh block a week before taking out the old block around the 9.5 week mark to clean thoroughly and see if you maintain the generally low level of nitrates and continue that maintenance cycle. Bacterial film overgrowth may simply clog up the internals. Die off occurs, releasing nitrogenous waste and the cycle somewhat recovers itself.
That makes a lot of sense! Love to see them do that to. I know someone selling the nice caribe sea life rock and bioballs for 3o bucks. Think I will give it a go!
Ryan perhaps give marinepure a call to investigate how they tested their blocks originally? Thanks for your efforts and the shirt from Reefapalooza!
I think it would be interesting to add a four to six inch sand bed to the test.
Kevin Coe I was about to write the same thing, but I checked first and long behold lol 👌🏼 Deep sand bed please
BRS = Best Reefing Science! Thank you!!
Try, try again, and try some more. Keep up the great work guys, can't wait to see how the next test turns out!
Very interesting. I wonder what this means in the long term. I guess your next test will help get a clearer picture. Good video. Thank you for this series.
Are there anything like this for freshwater tanks?
I've been running a deep sand bed and a bunch of live rock on my 180 for 15 years now with zero water changes. The only issue I've had is when I go on business trips and the family forgets to feed the fish.
Someone needs to invent a frozen food or refrigerated auto feeder.
Use all those stable functioning tanks at your business. Know the baseline nitrates and phosphate levels then put in just one specified regimen to each system and have each employees tank monitor for change. Continue the routine feeding and other water change and maintenance that is done without variance.
I and several others I know have used plain old wet dry filters w/bio balls for decades (new and old systems) without the nitrate problems I hear online. Yes we keep big, healthy and diverse reefs too! Why don't you try something old school?
Ours have an air stone in the water underneath the bio balls or just the tube inserted into the bottom of the ball cluster to increase gas exchange. When power goes out they become submerged as the sump back fills and don't die off instantly. The live rock in the tank can act as the backup and replenish the bacteria quickly anyway. Blue floss on the drip tray changed weekly and maybe some Polyfilter changed every month keeps particles down greatly. Filter sock in the prefilter column takes out even more. Those bricks are the same thing just condensed, no?
From the sump the water is pumped in-line (Iwaki 55RT) through a Lifegard pleated particle filter - into a modified Lifegard Chemi Filter full of Chemipure then through a Lifegard UV and back into the aquarium. There is also a skimmer in the sump. I change the pleat every two weeks and the carbon once a month. I also change about 5-10% per week depending.
Just because its old doesn't mean its obsolete. It could just be that manufacturers have been pushing new products to increase business and have created a viscous circle of number chasing when a proven method has been there all along...aren't a lot of people going back to T5's again?
keep the great testing coming. even mistakes made are great education tools. Hopefully everyone show there support for these great videos by buying from BRS
It'll be interesting to see the same test but with BrigtwellAquatics NO3 Bio Brick which actually states to reduce nitrates.
did you seed the media and allow it to colonize before polluting the water? Without that step it’s useless. What are are you purporting to be testing if not seasoned media? bare ceramics? Even your control tank should be seasoned (surfaces) to be consistent. Bacterial mitosis is exponential, even a small surface variable matters after time... R.E.Dillon PhD
I second this, the nutrient removal capabilities that I have seen from marinepure/carbon dosing took a good while to get going, about 6 months. Once it gets cooking though, it cooks hot !
If you try this with a bacterial monoculture, you will always have a rollercoaster curve. Combining different methods with different organisms like bacteria & algae will probably result in a more stable result where one can pick up when the other is temporarily cratering. My guess as someone who has never had an aquarium but has done some biology in university.
Yes many people would be interested in comparing marinepure with Brightwell Aquatics NO3 Bio Brick. One would assume that Brightwells product would be more efficient at removing nitrates due to the box showing brightwells has more surface area. Only a test would show the results. Also there is many rumors going around that they release metals, like aluminum, which I believe are most likely false, so a test would resolve this large rumor floating around on facebook saltwater clubs and online forums.
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Robert Rainey I have used both and Marine Pure results are far superior in the tanks I service.
do you think if you had the same quantity could you use a large sponge instead?
Y'all are animals when it comes to this BRSTV Investigates. I absolutely love what you're doing!!!
Did BRS ever come back to this? I can't find a follow-up...
Do you add fritz turbo start or any other bacteria to each tank to begin with?
Fritz is the worst additives i've ever tried. Go for Brightwell or Seachem bud
Mr G I used turbo start for my 250ltr about 2 years ago. It worked a treat. I had no issues. That said.. I couldn’t get it this time round and have a 650ltr to set up in about 2 weeks. I’m going to use Bacto blend by Fauna Marin. It’s what they had in stock and recommend at Seahorse Aquariums in Dublin. It’s the best I can get without having to pay import duty buying online.
@@ahoyskid ok thanks for your feedback
Cant wait for test 2 outcome.. Great job Ryan
Really enjoy the videos from this channel! I thought this was a pretty neat experiment and it had interesting results. From my own studies its usually seen as a good idea to have the most data possible in order to get a conclusive result, and just doing one experiment generally wont give you conclusive data that you're looking for. You guy's should try running this experiment with 3 of each of these media and see if they all exhibit the same trend or not. It would give you more data at once and might give you a better picture of how each form is functioning.
I Like the test please keep them coming this is great stuff.
How about testing the Natureef denitrator(with Phosphate option). I have heard of people using this system to eliminate water changes. Some on the forum still do less frequent water changes, but all say it's done wonders for their corals and keeping the tank parameter rock solid.
As with all things, if it sounds too good....
Their philosophy is the water changes still create up and down levels of chemistry that shocks the livestock, so coming up with a system that doesn't require the yo-yo effect is the best option of all. Just like the ocean.
I'd like to see comparison with Siporax
The plot should be designed using identical apparent volumen of every media. I mean, one block, two plates or whatever and a jar of balls top up to the dame volume of the plates and blocks. It would be very interesting whether you tried Matrix, Biohome and Ocean Free 3dm. In any case I would set the block and plates standing, all the media seeded with old muck from a dirty old filter and water and media feeded with minerales for the bacteria growth besides a nice water flow impacting every media.
What happened to the next phase of this testing. Waiting anxiously!
Plans changed a bit and part 2 was never completed. We don't have this on the schedule right now, but you never know in the future!
These tests could also be evidence that the carbon dosing folks are correct in their assertion that anaerobic bacteria may be nutrient limited at some point which could cause nitrate levels to flip-flop as those colonies die off and release their pent up nutrients to feed the next generation. I am most looking forward to a marine pure block test with regular dosing of NO3:PO4-X
Keep up the good work, I'm hooked on your videos!
This is a fantastic experiment. May I suggest when you retry this experiment, have several tanks with the same changed variable. Then you should average the results within each controlled variable group.
How much longer for an update? Can’t wait to see the results!
Sorry to hear about the test results of your balls......but I have a question. Have you done an in depth look at Miracle mud? I'm a huge fan, but only keep freshwater flora/fauna. Any thoughts on these applications for freshwater, or alternatives that can be used?
Did you guys ever circle back on this and do the second round of testing? I don't see the video for it if you did.
The problem with these blocks is that it only treats a very small amount of the water, simply because water always follows the path of less resistance. It flows AROUND the block, not through it.
The same by the way with life rock. There is hardly any flow inside the micropores, even more, that water inside is trapped because it can't overcome the pressure of being pushed in. It simply can't flow back out of the pore.
Very good job, thank you for trying to be as scientific as possible in your work.
Did you ever end up testing this again? I wasn’t finding another video
No part two, at least, not yet.
Awesome video! I'm interested in the racks those test tanks are on, I'm researching a way to build some custom racks for my fish room.
Wouldn’t those spikes have significantly bad effects on fish, corals and other invertebrates?
This was in a system without livestock, water changes, or any other form of nutrient control. Bioload levels here can be higher then in a newly established system as well. This was mainly to see how the different the biomedia performed under the same conditions.
Thanks. I understand that, but I think the reefer needs to realize this can according to your study and data occur as well in a stocked tank. Swings could be problematic, which was my point. You have multiple multiple fully functioning and knowledgeable reef keepers in your employ. You gave a great tour of the place. Why not let them do some monitoring with a simple single change and see how they affect results and nitrate and phosphate levels. That would be more real life.
Will a small piece of marine pure placed in a hang on filter help some??
I appreciate the fact that u can admit u goofed on the whole test
hi Bulkreefsupply .... I just want to ask.. do you guys ship internationally?
Surface area is expressed as the square of a dimension, not the cube, which is only valid for volume unless you're in a parallel universe.
I contemplated buying this, I'm glad I didn't. Thank you BRS
Hi BRS team
I already have 2 marine pure block at low flow.
Can i put new marine pure at high flow area, maybe 8000LPH?
The water flow from downside to upside.
Did the new test ever come out ?
Looks to me like the BRS Investigates Series is sadly dead.
interesting test, thanks! I'd like to see you test the balls used in a wet/ dry set up in the next test
When can we expect an update on the new test?
Is there Part 2 of this test?
It sounds like you guys went through a PhD program. It takes years to teach graduate students how to learn from failed experiments. Unless an experiment failed completely you can always learn from it and improve the next round of testing. Trust me I am a Dr.
How is the marine pure holding up after a year?
Do you still use them in the 160? Of so how are those doing any issues
All the Investigates are awesome!!! Miss now only biopellets and deep sand bet or sand filter ....
So is it that by month 2 they need to be clean and that's why there numbers start spiking like that?
I’m tempted to use this in my sump but I was wondering with a sand bed wouldn’t that have enough bacteria to handle the bioload?
Bacteria will grow on every surface of your tank/sump as long as their is a food source.
It would be nice if you could use the Brightwell aquatics products too in test 2. Great video as always
The reason for a rise and drop in nitrates was probably because the anaerobic bacteria can produce nitrite (as well as hydrogen sulfide and nitrate).
I would also think that other factors that ended up inhibiting nitrate processing occurred somehow also - since technically the marine pure should have had less come the end of the experiment as it was consistently lower up until about week 8 or 9. It's a lot of food to add with nothing macroscopic to pick up some of the load. My guess is there was the accumulation of some inhibiting factor, or at around week 8 or 9 it hit some kind of saturation point. Or, the microbes hit some kind of carrying capacity issue which was only delayed by the increased surface area. Additionally the final resting level of around 50-60ppm might be a product of applying the same feeding regime to each of the tanks - that's interesting also as I'm guessing the nitrate earlier might have merely been sequestered rather than removed. Either way, it's interesting that a tank with just water ended up in a similar spot, but the path they took is probably the most informative part of the experiment.
BUT ! If you use high debit currents .. like in a sump ? would it be the same results ? Id like to see the experiment ? plz respond .
Is the follow up video to this up yet?
@@BRStv Thanks for the reply! Yes I totally understand, you guys put out a lot of great content. Patiently waiting for the followup ;)
Deep sand beds are good for nitrate consuming bacteria.
for my reefer 170 i want to put more space for bacteria for the nitrogen cycle and also de-nitratefication.
i am thinking about marine pure block ore the maxspect nano-tech bio block which in my eyes look better as its has a stronger structure. What would you reccomend. Also is it better to clean it the first time with cold tap water of warm tap water. Somethimes in warm solution polution can disolve better then in cold water but i don.t know it will damaged the structure?
If you're concerned about how fragile the block is, you could also try out the bricks from Brightwell. We've found the Brightwell bricks to be some of the more durable ones available at the moment. A rinse in warm water shouldn't be an issue for the bricks.
These are just phenomenol and I am personally changing filter plans based on your results.
I can't find the video of comparison between marine pure and live rock for nitrates reduction ...
I think water needs to move consistently thru the blocks. Sitting on the bottom of a tank with little water motion can't help. I use my blocks in my sump in the last stage before going back to the tank. All water passes thru the 3 blocks I have in my 420 reef. And to be honest, I can raise my nitrate for the life of me. And its actually hurting my corals. Too much of a good thing I guess.
Is there risk of the block getting gummed up and water flowing around it instead of through it?
Hello! Just an idea, could you guys make a video on the best way to clean a used tank? Thank you!
It would be interesting to add a sample of MP block configured with flow through it as well.
Hi nice,
What about an episode of nano bubbles at night time in display tank.
I'm looking (over two years later) for the follow-on study that re-looked at this but can't find the video...did the follow-on study ever happen? Maybe BRS can sticky it to the end of this video for future watchers?
We haven't done the part 2 to this video. Maybe in the future, but it's not currently on our schedule.
Would like to see them adding a maybe a hang on back protein skimmer because this is normal setup on all reef tanks
Really enjoyed this but will you also use the marine pure balls in the next investigation? They're much easier to find space for. Also, are there lights on the tank? Blue and other color wave lengths will impact the denitrifying bacteria
Great video, love your investigates series but, a little tip - you can't get 23,000 CUBIC feet of AREA ;)
jitz bailin
lol. well you know what they mean.
:), I completely missed that and it took me awhile to figure out what you are talking about. Thanks, I make this kind of mistake from time to time. I tell people to listen to what I mean and not what I say.
Also unless the water is absolutely crystal clear going in that 23,000 surface area will get reduced really quickly.
Lol i caught that too