Refugium Mistakes: The WRONG way to set up a refugium.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2024
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Refugiums and Algae Scrubbers....Tested!
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Bulk Reef Supply I’m glad your opinion on refugiums have changed over the years. Your approach to feeding more and dosing the necessary nutrients from a too strong refugium is definitely more cost effective than water changes and adjustable from multiple aspects(light period, feeding, and dosing nutrients)
You guys are awesome, I been reefing since 1994, I have a purple tang that’s 28 years old, and a few corals the same age. My clown fish lived 23 years, outlived my cat. Keep up the great content, over the years I have become maintenance lazy, your content brings me back in touch with the art and is greatly appreciated.
If you get chaeto from someone else, do a few dips on RO water, any pests that require saltwater will die and come off, just do it for a few hours as 2-3 dips. That's the tip I would like to share
This advice just helped me out a ton. Got some chaeto from my LFS a few days ago and sure enough, it had bristle worms and other hitchhikers on it. An hour soak in RO water cleaned off the chaeto.
@@johnb3193 I just got a tiny bit from a reefer. Had some fish poop that’s about it
Hey. I'm a new sub. Wanted to say I have only watched this video and your best led reef light, but you guys are so informative and I love how you guys describe everything. I've been in the hobby for 9 years and I feel like I learned so much more for your videos. I can't wait to see what else you guys have available. 😊 Keep up the great work!
Great video as always! Very comprehensive and lots to think about. Thanks Ryan, Randy & the BRSTV team.
The video I have been waiting for! Thank you so so much for this!
This video cleared up several things for me THANKS!!!
Fantastic video guys. Watched the whole thing. Never had a fuge before but I’m planning stages and all of this info helps a lot.
Thanx guys for the video!!! really interesting
I REALLY like this format of video.. keep them coming!
NICE, GETTING MORE AND MORE INTO DOING THIS VERY SOON. THANKS GUYS!
Guys....wow!...I'm right in the middle of picking a tank for my red...I was looking at a 40...but now I know better...thanks guys..right on time!!
Thanks Fellers for you're time, to make all of these great info Video's..
Thank you for making videos that make sense =).
Thank you, great video
your videos are the reason why i dont make mistakes in the hobby thanks alot!!
I'm SUCH a wimp when it comes to copepods when I harvest! I try to save as many as I can to go back in 🤣
I even check my filter socks! Things are so rare around my side of the world
Haha. Me too. My chaeto actually get chock full of micro brittle stars. I literally put it in a shallow tray and try to pick them all out. I just can't pitch them!
Reef Dork that is the toughest part. Today I did my annual sump clean. I had accumulated silt/ detritus that had to go. Unfortunately I am sure I lost a very large percentage of my pods. Sigh. The good thing is my cheato has allowed my to go a very long time without interfering with the system.
BallcardzTV why do u do that??? What’s the point of that to u?
Ha same. I spend so much effort to save a tiny little critter. :/
Great information! I'd still go with sea lettuce over chaeto but to each their own.
I have my light on in my Refugium on 24 hours a day and it’s growing just fine with my kessil and it seems to love it
I watched this video for 5 minutes before I figured out that coral in the tank behind you wasn't growing up out of the top of the fuge tank
Been growing chaeto for about seven years. I use a 100W equivalent LED flood light from Home Depot on 6 to 8 hours a day. I placed my chaeto inside of a plastic mesh like a taco. The mesh is actually used to keep fish from jumping outside the tank, this is so I can clean the chaeto every water change by just pulling the net out after I let it drip due to detritus build up. The only other factor that really affected me was red slime starting anywhere the chaeto has too little flow or when I went on vacation and the chaeto touched the surface of the water. When the chaeto touches the surface even a little bit the red slime would spike, so I would know it’s time to just cut it out (halfway) since it only grows on the superficial portions of my chaeto and doesn’t affect the whole body of chaeto.
Good advice if you have the money . Been very successful with using less money and taking more care.
Thank you for all the great info! Appreciate all the knowledge, still learning
#17 - Flow: You gotta have flow through your sump/fuge especially if you're growing macroalgaes. My chaeto never seemed to do well in my sump until I added a dedicated powerhead to blow on/through it. It doesn't need to tumble in there, just get some water moving through it so it has access to enough nutrients to grow.
Can I put a led air stone under the chaeto for the flow
I have been in the salt water hoby for over 15 years and I can say that your summary is highly educational. A big thank you!
Would love to see some brs investigates into different types of macro algae. Cheato is great for sure but other macros are good to and have other benefits. I recently added some ulva to my fuge and loving it. My tang eats it and don't have to buy norgi anymore.
Great video and thanks for the shout out! :)
Merci pour ta vidéo !!! 👍👍👍
Just what I needed, really struggling growing cheato, shame I can’t sell hair algae to my Lfs id make a fortune
Tried caulerpa? Grows fast, I'm assuming fast growth means excellent nutrient removal.
Most of my tanks have grapeseed calurpa, a couple have the fern caulerpa, which is a little more sensitive.
Tried Cheato a couple times, no luck.
I had a pretty successful 3 year mixed reef 55 that utilized a sump with a chaeto tumbling section, a deep sand bed section, slimmer and filter socks.
I fought the occasional hair algae flare ups in the main display until I added GFO and carbon reactors. The tank really took off after that.
In hindsight, I think I could have achieved similar results without the reactors by simply dialing back my feeding.
Re: light spillage into the skimmer - I stand a piece of black egg crate vertically beside my skimmer and my fuge light can’t directly shine on the skimmer body. Works great!
Excellent
Using sterile chaeto is great advice. H160 was the best light for me.
Hahaha, awesome... fail #2: STDs. Sharing transmitted diseases. Btw,, that's really wild artwork on the wall. I like it. This was a wonderful vid guys, thanks!
Great video. I have a 20 gallon water box all in one tank. What would be a good way to add a refugium to my tank? Again thanks for the great videos.
I love a large refugium with macro algae, great place for critters, copepods and a place to put a rogue fish in.
Great video! What do you guys think about using chaeto in algae reactors for nano tanks?
Definitely a viable option for those setups with space constraints!
It’s always amazing how I have always learned something NEW from every video I have watched from you guys. In on of the other videos someone said you guys Ryan and Randy and #brstv is really becoming the wealth of knowledge and experience for all of us new and old refers. Absolutely love all the contents you guys share with us. Thank you 🙏
Kessil H380 box upside down ... i guess this was on purpose... fits right into the theme of "fails" :P
Im watching this again right before a trip to LFS to buy chaeto has me apprehensive.
Man..It’s really too bad there hasn’t been any stock available from you or Algaebarn selling for months now! Reefcleaners is also out of stock. What’s going on? Too busy with servicing commercial customers perhaps?
So far I’ve kept my new reef build pest free... but seems I’m going to try my luck on QT treatment for Chaeto sources from my local LFS.
Damn...please wish me luck!
I hope starting this new fuge is worth the risk.🤞🏻 Wish there wa also solid answers on R2R for Chaeto QT it’s all over the map..
Maybe that’s a future BRS video idea (?)
Awesome video! I just added a chaeto to my sump purchased from Algae Barn.. it's growing a little slow but so far so good!
Thanks for the video.... you guys look like it's a home shopping network or qvc video😀 but great video....
I highly recommend trying different species of macro algae. I grow sea lettuce (ulva) and it is as effective as chaeto, easier to clean/harvest and can also be used as a free food to tangs/other herbivores.
Or for people! We can eat it too.
i love ulva, I felt that tang eat easier than chaeto.
Does it export nitrates & phos the same?
Years ago when I started my tank I put Chaeto in from a buddies tank like two days after I set it up. Gotta agree. Never again.
I used to run chaeto and when I did I took the bucket of water change water, pulled the chaeto and swished it around in there pretty well. While it was out I cleaned the fuge. I don't know if that was overdoing it or not but I felt better doing it. I use ulva now and it's much more relaxed. I use the harvested ulva in my fish only with rock tank as food.
Does the ulva also get rid of the nitrates & phos?
I found a bristle worm in some gracilaria algae i was handling but luckily I didn't get stung either from luck or because it was too young
Make sure to dose Brawndo. It's got what plants need!
It's got electrolytes!
Welcome to BRS we love you
For algae I have a foxface and a tomini tang which do excellent job
I lol when they assumed your buddies tank is loaded with pests but yours isnt....
My fail was #4 .. put cheto in to soon. It died n all the nutrients are in my tank causing algae.i just let it go for a couple weeks. Did some water changes. Now I'm gonna try some more n see if it gets there nutrients out. Wish me luck lol
I would be interested in you guys explaining how to make a good fresh water refugium
Love my Fuge
Loved the video guys. Just found out I’m a #8 violator. Bought my first sump large enough to have a refugium from Trigger and Watched your how to 4 yrs ago. But just thought it was okay to 4-5 algae’s growing.
As a show idea with this in mind, could you do a sump maintenance or a 15 mistakes on using a sump?
chaeto is never worth 70 bucks smh...
Wow great info.. guilty of a few of the ones you listed.
I run deep sand bed under rocks and chaeto. Miracle mud. Never an issue
I would love to see an expansion of the refugium investigation which includes miracle mud and if it has any of the claimed benefits to corals and fish
I dipped and cleaned and quarantined and still ended up with all of these pest i just live with them now and do not stress over aptasia anymore it is what it is at this point. When i feel like it ill break down the tank and start over lol but for now things work i look at my tank everyday so im pretty on top of making stuff disappear. And then the next week start over again haha
Im pretty sure Randy almost said big ass skimmer xD Anyway what should I do to help keep cyano from growing on my chaeto? ive tried adding a pump to my fuge, but it just ends up clogged with macros
You do not need expensive lights to grow Chaeto!!! As long as you have nutrients in your system that stuff practically grows with no light. I bought a cheap $30 light off of Amazon and it grows Heaps of chaeto algae.
Agreed i run a ufo gro light grows it just fine
It cracks me up hearing of people running Kessils to grow chaeto.
I bought a $20.00 LED grow light off eBay works fine
A larger Refugium can be good for a constant food supply in some cases as example a Mandarinfish
Line your sump with mirrored Alexander and it'll block the light from your sump and help your algea grow down low.
What about waterflow? To little or too much could be an issue.
I need this man to set up my tank😂
Aloha!...so question, I am getting back into having a tank as allot of people are limited on funds for a saltwater tank:
1. Is it better to spend/invest the money on a UV light or a protein skimmer?
2. Is it better to invest in a "hangover" surface protein skimmer OR a submerged protein skimmer?
3. Should one invest their money into a professional sump or a "do it yourself" sump with a plastic tote and 3 dresser drawer?
Mahalos and aloha from MauiWaui!!
1. Skimmer. 2. Properly sized submerged skimmer is best but don't oversize it. If you need space get one with pump built into it. 3. DIY is great if you have patience and a good idea. Some are cheap though and if you wanted a wet/dry filter those tend to be easier to just buy. I use a 40 breeder that I got for like $50. Auto filter roller is probably the best investment you can make! For beginners best thing you can do is get 2-3 inches of live sand in your display. Plenty of rock is good too. I suggest real reef or Carib sea life rock for best results. DIY is okay but just remember that you get what you pay for. Sometimes a little work can save you big bucks but a cheap light or other equipment will cost you in the long run. Outside of custom sump/baffles I would advise going with 4-5 star reviewed products until you get a better idea on what you want from the hobby. Once you have success with what everyone knows works you can start to experiment more :) hope that helps and good luck!
Need to know where I can get the items you talk about in your videos in the U.K.
Always curious to know about how much flow should go thru your refugium. I put some in from algea barn and it just spun apart could you guys touch on this
That's a great question and not something that we've really tested. The Triton method, for example, suggests a true 10x turnover rate. That said, most of the BRS tanks are running a much slower turnover rate, closer to 3-5x. As time goes on, turnover rates through the sump are seemingly becoming less and less important.
I was going to put a small one in the back of my aio 20 nuvo. I was thinking about the spill over of lightening being okay. Will that work or I need a special light or tune the light differently? i could cover the skimmer area so algae wont grow there. I am banging my head that I missed black friday and I had lots of stuff in my cart too! Will you be having another big shopping discount day b4 xmas? I want to stock up on lots of stuff!
You'll likely need a dedicated light to grow chaeto to it's full potential. The Innovative Marine ChaetoMax is a great option.
All about photosynthesis, baby!
My chaeto is filled with bristle worms (which I rarely, rarely see in my display). It's weird, they just love to be in chaeto. My issue with chaeto is the 'die off' if my nitrates go low. Keeping the balance is a bit trivial though not impossible. I just turn up my feeding to increase nitrate and a week later, the chaeto bounces back.
Where the hell was this video 6 months ago? Haha
Is good use chaeto liquid as Food to increase growing ¿
I have a eshopps R-100 sump. I think I added chaeto too early(setup is now 6mos old)and then hair algae came and out performed and killed it off within a week of adding the chaeto. Now the HA is growing like crazy in the fuge, but all HA has disappeared from the display. Should I just continue with a HA fuge? Or clean it out and try chaeto again? No algae anywhere else. Except some minor cyano in the DT. Which is manually removed with water change.
They had me at those nasty ass Bristleworms and critters in the sock.
I want to run chaeto in my nano but not now in time.
And like u said, it may be too effective for the softies.
Also, what would work like chaeto in a Ranchu tank?
The refruge´ looks like a pain in tbe balls though.
Thanks again.
As far as size I have a Red Sea Reefer 170 and want to put a refug in but not sure if I want to mod the ato or section off part of the skimmer area. I have seen the CPR Fuge2 small that will actually hang on the side of my sump. Will this 2.5 gallon be enough for that size 43g tank?
While a 2.5 gallon fuge certainly won't hurt, I also wouldn't expect it to make a major impact on your tank as it's only about 5% of the system's total water volume. If you're combining this with other filtration and water changes, it's a more viable strategy 🙂
Very informative. I do have a question? I recently purchased a Bashsea Bio-fuge sump. The first section has an adjustable gate. I have no idea what it does or how to use it? I’m assuming you can create different water heights in that section or the Refugium section on the other side. But from everything I’ve encountered the water in all 3 sections just levels out evenly.
So I have no idea what purpose an adjustable gate has, if it doesn’t actually allow you to create different water heights?
Interesting! We don't have any Bashsea sumps around here to compare to yours, but I bet if you reached out to their support team, they'd be able to explain the purpose of that adjustable gate 🙂
@@BRStv I actually figured it out last night. You can make the first section (skimmer section) water height higher than the other two sections of the sump. Thx!
What is a good way to vacuum out the sump? Mine could definitely use a good cleaning.
A small pump like an mj1200 and a vacuum attachment work great!
www.bulkreefsupply.com/mj-vacuum-attachment.html
The h380 box is messing with me. Lol but I plan on getting one can’t beat the results.
Elemental uptake is the #1 critical step. I had chaeto die because I wasn't feeding enough iron.
Can you get vermitid also crom chaeto ? ..
Well, this definitely explains my cyano issue. I run my H160 way too long and way too intense. Thanks!
You have cyano because you don't have enough refugium power.
I'm starting a new waterbox that I'd like to have a refugium in. Will be adding the octo aquatics baffle in the skimmer area for a smallll refugium. Are you saying not to start the refugium with chaeto for a few months? Or start refugium with the setup and not turn the light on it?
Chaeto is photosynthetic, so you'll need lights as soon as you add it to your sump. I would suggest waiting for your tank to cycle before adding a refugium. If there are no nitrates or phosphates for the chaeto to use, it'll likely just slowly die out in a brand new tank.
@@BRStv Great!! Thanks for the quick reply..That's what I was thinking. 🙂
Is there anything you can do with the chaeto you harvest? Besides throwing it out?
I will say I have an oversized fuge because I had the space and it’s for later additions and my 7 year old is helping me with it so I can’t have it hard to get into. I am probably going to link over 1000 gallons on it someday but it’s around 60-100 gallons split between two 75 gallon rubber livestock tanks on a 2000lb rated shelving unit because children and glass mix about as well as alcohol and fireworks.
😂
I never had nitrate / phosphate too high - the corals will consume far more than enough.
What is a good PAR range for chaeto?
Eric Johnson lol. 10
Clean chaeto, great advice, there is nowhere to be found in Europe. How could I clean it if I take it from someone/store? It might be something easy in USA but does not apply to the rest of the world. Also, "not putting filter sock before chaeto", what about Trition method? It specifically says NOT to add socks.
I always rinse my chaeto under the kitchen faucet, it kills the pests and worms and such just lets go and gets rinsed out. You can also soak it in tapwater for awhile. Works great and doesn't hurt the algae. Just get the temperature right.
@@semisuccessfulreefer220 But it will not clean all pests. Aiptasia for example.
Any suggestions on which chamber to start a refugium in a IM nuvo 30 gallon?
We've run a few of the IM 30's around the BRS office and the first or second chambers will work best. You'll want to avoid the return chamber as the macro will get sucked up into the return pump.
I have a 20g nano cube. Of the 3 compartments in the back; 1 for my heat & pump and the other for my media basket, the 3rd isn't being used at all. Can I use this area as a mini refugium?
You bet! (as long as it's not the return chamber)
Can chaeto be dipped in pine oil solution to remove bristle worms?
How would you guys recommend quarantining chaeto if you can't buy from a reputable source
Peach02 freshwater dip for half a day
Hi
Whats gonna happen to the pods in the fuge sand if i vacuum & clean the fuge?
Most of the pods will live in the chaeto itself, so you're probably removing less pods than you think you are.
Do you guys have a recommendation for lbs/g of chaeto per gallons of water to start out with?
david chilton lol more like ounces or grams per gallon. Cheato is pretty efficient and light weight.
Not really, but as a general rule of thumb, we'd suggest trying to add as much as possible. There just isn't any way that a small golf ball size chunk of macroalgae is going to be sufficient. Unless you're willing to be patient and let it grow out over time.
Is the Triton method an exception to some of this like the large fuge, or filter sock before the macros?
Same question about the filter socks.
For triton is fuge first. That way macro gets first pass at the nutrients.
@@joevillavicencio6548 I know, I run it. And it doesnt require filter socks. That's why I asked if it was the exception, or maybe I've missed something along the way.
@@joeymerrell8585 I think exception is size wise. The 20% Fuge volume rule.
I wouldn't say that 10% of your display size for the refugium to be a massive fuge in most cases. We're talking about a 10 gallon refugium for a tank of 100 gallons. There will always be a few exceptions to the rules, but these ideas discussed in the video are some good general guidelines to consider.
You dudes have any experience with mangrove cuttings
We do have a small mangrove tank on our new BRStv set. Randy has been growing out mangroves for years now!
Bristle Worm removal trick. This is probably already in this thread, but maybe not. Crazy glue over the suspected area let dry or dry with hairdryer or heatgun then rip off.
13:18 i laughed my ass off and had to replay, I thought I heard "You never let your tank look like crap, so why do you let yourself look like crap"
😆
Some of what you say is contradictory of the Triton method.... I was under the impression to let the uneaten junk filter straight into the chaeto, not to harvest it and let it run its natural cycle,
And also if one is doing the mudbed,
I was under the impression that was also how it was to be done.
I suppose it's relative to the tank load, but I'm not one to overfeed.
I was wondering this too. Ryan took the filter socks off the BRS160 and replaced it with the chaeto... Have you added filter socks back in?
I'm getting ready to setup a RS 650P and I definitely had a Carbon/GFO reactor AND a Kessil H380 on my shopping list.
This is the first time I've heard that running both isn't a great idea and I have a follow up question.
Not running GFO AND a fuge with adequate lighting like you've mentioned makes sense (because you'll end up with a deficiency of nutrients preventing your fuge from growing well). My question is what about just carbon? I wanted to run carbon for odor reduction and to reduce yellowing of water. Are we saying that a fuge is capable of those tasks on its own?
I want to be as proactive on this as possible and if I have a choice, I'd prefer this all built in from the start rather than adding it later. But if it's not necessary, now's the time for me to have that information.
Same carbon. And order in sump would help.fuge skimmmer etc
The carbon dosing there talking about Is different, dosing liquid carbon(like vodka) acts like a nutrient export combined with the refugium could possibly be too much. Where dry carbon is great for keeping water clear and smell free.
When I added my h380 from h80 it was like a growth bomb