UPDATE: The other thumbnail won the A/B test, so i switched the title to accomodate. "What Happened to Mewtwo" was still a very good title but considering the other thumbnail is performing slightly better i figured it's better to completely skew the title over to something more typical of the channel. So if you see people talking about the "black bar over eyes thumbnail" that's the deal. Anyways please subscribe lol
You have NO idea how long I've been waiting for a competitive deep dive on Mewtwo from a channel like you. Used to take him to locals all the way up until Steves release and MAN was every fight scrappy. Your breakdowns are really eloquently worded and your research is really in depth. Great work. Loved everything I've seen of yours so far, looking forward to what comes out next.
Mewtwo just makes me sad in Ultimate, on paper he's a cool character and I've tried multiple times to pick him up, but I keep bumping into the reality that *he can't do anything.* I don't think I've ever played a Smash character that feels so bottlenecked into the same couple of options over and over, this was a really great summary of what causes that.
Yeah, i can feel this. I'm no pro player by all means and i haven't played competitive smash in a while but when i did i had mewtwo as a secondary and it just was the same gameplan every time.
Mewtwo player from Texas here. Im glad someone finally put all of his weaknesses into words. So many people just chalk it up to the tail when it goes so much deeper than that. Been a fan of your content for a while and this was nice surprise to see. Great vid 🔥
As a Ridley main who often complains about the character's hurtbox, I played Ult for the first time in like 3 years with a fresh mentality and a lot of clarity I didn't have before. Fought a Mewtwo, and after fighting him for a bit I was just like... "wait, what the fuck happened to this character, was he always so bad? What is he supposed to do?" And proceeded to annihilate the poor player too many times and now I'm going to hell for my sins.
Great explanation on the differences between samus and mewtwo! 'Zoning' is a complex idea, but framing it as control and punishment of aerial or ground movement really is intuitive. This also explains why samus is so much more effective -- even tho her "zoning" tools (missiles) were made a lot less effective from 4 to ult and via patches, gaining a big boost to speed and aerial denial metagame were a big boost. Mewtwo got the opposite treatment. And also why the matchup is so BAD for samus! Mewtwo can use superior mobility to enforce samus to go for a ground approach, and samus HATES having to jump over shadow ball. As for defense -- mewtwo isn't THAT much more harder for samus to ko, but their high kill power makes samus's strong weight a lot less of a boon. You don't get to live much longer when you have the threat of fair offstage deleting you at 40, for instance! This goes for both characters. But only one has the mobility to make it happen
It's also funny when you realize that Samus is widely considered an A tier but has a difficult matchup into a random D tier like Mewtwo. If you think about it, any other character with a charge-shot esque move is going to make it hard for Samus to play the game. They have either better mobility, a reflector, or in Mewtwo's case: both. This means that a character who thrives off conditioning with charge shot and struggles with approaching now has to deal with another character who conditions with charge shot - _by_ approaching. In other words, all the control of neutral Samus is known to get just disappears as soon as someone like Mewtwo presses the B button. I don't even have to get into the ways Mewtwo can kill Samus at 40%. The fact that her win condition of conditioning with charge shot is lost to Mewtwo's shadow ball and confusion is enough to call it a bad matchup. Hopefully one day we can move away from the top 15 allegations, because this is far from the worst character diff Samus has to deal with.
Mewtwo main here. This video was genuinely fantastic! Despite all his headaches, I still absolutely love this character, and find him to be the most fun in the game. His unique tools just work with how I like to play. I see a lot of people who like to underrate Mewtwo and say “he’s only overlooked because of tail” but he has so many other smaller issues that add up over time. Like that example you brought up with his nerfed Nair. I couldn’t image how many times I try a Nair follow up and it just sends in an inconsistent direction. His double jump is so unique in allowing him to get some insane edge guards, but it hinders him so badly in disadvantage, and it’s something I never saw visualized so well in a smash video. It would be quite interesting to see a version of this character who focused more on aggression rather than bait-and-punish zoning. Anyways, keep up the good work!
Dude I LOVE how you edited the section at 4:37. Like instead of telling us what she can hit you just showed us which is so cool dude. Keep up the amazing work
@@bencrandall-malcolm8303 that is wrong, mewtwo's floatiness combined with his light weight made him basically dead at any percent past 20 if he was caught with a stray dash attack
Spot-on video! It's strange how what was one of the best characters at getting off ledge is now one of the worst characters at getting off the ledge. Side note: It wasn't mentioned, but one result of side-B losing its aerial boost made it so you could no longer let go of ledge and hit an awaiting opponent without having to use your double jump, thus eliminating it as an option to help get off the ledge.
I LOVE playing Mewtwo, he's insanely strong and has a really fun grab game but MY GOD he just does not function as a character. Basically every good thing he has is messed up in some way. He's SUPER mobile but his massive double jump makes a ton of stuff way harder. Fair is insanely strong but half the cast low profiles it OOS. Confusion combos into Fair but it's unreliable because you need to be pretty precise about your vertical spacing. His forward throw does a ton of damage, but a lot of the time you'll miss at least one shadow ball, and then it's just average. He's massive so he's got range but the tail hurtbox hampers that range and despite being big he's stupid light. Basically everything he has is at least a little messed up in some way.
You touched on this with dtilt but they also gutted fair and utilts combo abilities. Fair used to chain reliably at low percents and utilt could very consistently scoop into usmash at kill percents and neither of those work now.
I get most of the adjustments they made to Mewtwo, a lot of them were kind of just results of how Ultimate's engine changed things, but the tail... literally why, man. I get it's not his biggest issue, but why give him that stank ass tail hurt box...
They probably just saw that Mewtwo had that extra tail hurtbox in Melee, went “Oh hey, there’s a potential nerf to this top tier that’s also bringing something back from an older game,” and did it for the hell of it. Funnily enough, something Pyro didn’t mention in this video is that they tried to mitigate the effects of the tail hurtbox twice by making it smaller and then making Mewtwo’s shield bigger and changing his pose in the shield, but sadly, those were very much just bandaid solutions. Next game they’ll probably just go back to one hurtbox on the tail like Smash 4, since they seemingly realized that the extra hurtbox was a problem, but just didn’t want to get rid of it.
@ What’s crazy is that we all forget about this now because post-pandemic Sonic is seen as a contender for the best character in Ultimate, but he actually did get some pretty notable nerfs coming into the game from Smash 4. To name the biggest ones from Smashwiki’s list of changes, his Spin Dash and Spin Charge both lost the ability to be charged indefinitely and cross up shield, he lost the ability to cancel Spin Dash by shielding, his up air got gutted and made more inconsistent, his up throw lost most of its combos, and he was made lighter, so he dies earlier compared to Smash 4. So yeah, it feels like Sonic only got a slap on the wrist in hindsight because of how much Ultimate’s general engine changes benefitted him, but he did genuinely lose quite a bit between games; we could’ve had a version of Sonic in Smash Ultimate that was somehow even more campy with even less committal movement options, lmao.
@ ye, the shield canceling one was a major aspect to it that stuck out when Ult came out, but spin dash/charge themselves are still both very safe burst movement options. I’m still just mad they stopped all support quite early in addition to all of this. Considering games like SF5 and Tekken 7 were older and got support for a much longer timespan than Ult.
@ Yeah, I agree the patches should’ve gone on for longer; it’s a shame that they just stopped like, a month after Sora came out when they definitely could’ve kept it going for another year.
I think the most core issue with Nintendo's philosophy on changing Mewtwo for Ultimate is that it's like they forgot how important it is for an aggressive character to be able to escape on defense. No matter what game you're in, it doesn't matter how good it _could_ be when you get in if you're just going to get run over anytime something goes wrong. It's why traditional fighters always give reversals to their rushdown characters, or why shotguns have the theoretically fastest kill time in a shooter, or why heavies live so long, because without it you just can't afford to go in most of the time. They gave Mewtwo a bunch of reward when he does get in, but they also made it so he can't save himself if it gets him in trouble, especially not with his low survivability, so he just isn't using it half the time
Buffed jump and nerfed shield, roll, spot dodge, and shield grab. How could they not know the meta would shift to an aerial game?…Maybe Sakurai was right Smash isn’t a fighting game because the devs don’t know what they’re doing.
@Team-Eclipse6024 for sure, draft back air onto any other unassuming character that falls faster and has less drift, back air would be a horrible move, near useless. On Mewtwo though, with his amazing double jump height and aerial control, back air becomes a monster at edgeguarding (one of the only good things the move is good at). with its disjoint and its animation sweeping from low to high, double jumping while using it lets you cover both recoveries from low and stage height. It can also be combo’d into itself to drag people towards the blast zone. If they airdodge through it, a down air spike is possible on most of the cast. On mewtwo, the move works.
mewtwo main from ontario here(yes, ignore my pfp), and i just wanted to say that this is an absolutely phenomenal video(as per usual LOL)! i started my competitive journey with mewtwo a couple years ago and recently have been feeling a bit conflicted in my choice despite how much faith i have in him(i'm a bit infamous in my region for glazing how theoretically strong mewtwo can be), and you've really eloquently put into words the full breadth of how he struggles in this game. i really hate when people chalk up his failings solely to the tail, so i'm really thankful for how you've fully examined everything working against him. amazing work as always! although, i am a bit surprised that you didn't mention any of his many other buffs throughout ultimate's lifespan, because he truly was an abysmal character at the start of the game(part of my theory as to why he's so under repped) but got buffed into something, dare-i-say, 'viable'.
Wonderful video, I’ve been talking to my friends about the whole “force you to approach the way you wanted to anyways” thing during tier list discussions, but I had no idea about his smash 4 changes.
also i get the problems you mention at 7:40 about mew2 being unapproachable and him needing the nerf, but the clip you show as an example moreso demonstrates how strong shields were in smash 4 and how they dominated the meta. idk if the same would apply in ultimate if mew2 were still equally as strong
Reminds me of vars III's video from a couple of years ago, you have a lot of moves which are good at sealing stocks and dealing damage. But, with zero defensive utility whatsoever. He also gave the best explanation of the problems of the tail hurtbox. Which is that carries the risk of extending your hurtbox. Therefore, making it risky to use in combat. Even though you have to.. Which basically sums the experience of playing the character.
how convenient that I was just thinking about the second luminosity tier list, wondering how everyone's favorite genetic pokemon got so low, and then being blessed with a video perfectly explaining from one of the best smashtubers
All of a sudden I heard the haunted house music from bomber man 64 the second attack. It was the first game that I was able to record with my dazzle capture card like 15 or 20 years ago or something. The first videos I ever posted on this channel were from that game and I still love it to this day. So I instantly recognized that music and you earned the like for that alone.The rest of the video is great, but noticing that made me extremely happy.
Resident Mewtwo main here, and I gotta say, you put it all so... perfectly. Though I think the tail is a bigger deal then you made it out to be, because it makes it MUCH harder to disengage if an interaction goes south. The best way I can describe Mewtwo is volatile. if you can get a meaningful hit off, and take stage control, your advantage is monstrous. You have the tools to capitalize. But if something happens, like getting hit off stage, you have like... 3 tools to escape disadvantage. In neutral, shadow ball, and intimidation are your best tools. If one is hampered, the match becomes substantially harder to win.
I appreciate this video. You make consistent bangers one after another, however, I do feel like most of these issues get worked out when you start playing him like Joker, but arsene has a hitbox, and not as a rushdown aggressor, nor as a campy nerd. He is a god at bait and punish spacing. While he isn't tiny like joker, he makes up for having some straight busted range tacked on with stupid mobility. Space, hold center stage, bait with shadowball, wait for opponent to slip, kill at funny percents. Apart from that, I got some extra points to mention: 1 - Fair is nuts. It is cracked as an anti air. Time it right and they'll never jump again. It can also be safely spaced if you know they're baiting it out. Fair is nuts in general; timed right, i can reverse an opponent's advantage and annihilate someone's over confidence while in disadvantage. Don't use nair, bair or dair in disadvantage or you're asking for death. 2 - Tail hitbox is funny, but usually is a signifier myself pressing W on someone too much in a matchup. If you're facing forward against your opponent in neutral, you will won't have to worry too much about it. If I'm getting hit in my tail, then im doing something wrong. Also accidental tail hits mid combo can mess up them entirely. Its funny to fall out of what should be true combos because oops it hit tail hitbox. M2 being tall sucks, but m2 tail stops being a problem through experience. 3 - shadowball is usually for bating people into forward air. Now thinking about it, jump meta isn't too bad when you can hit fairs reliably. A bunch of annoying things can be dealt with on this character through a little bit of patience, but no one wants to bother adapting to them because m2 tail lol. The moment you call m2 tail a skill issue is when you start improving as m2.
I like how every swordie in the game has fast attacks and plenty of range, with disjoints because their swords don't have hurtboxes... And then there's Mewtwo, whose tail is basically a sword but with a hurtbox.
Good analysis. I had wondered why Mewtwo fell off in Ultimate, and this video did a good job explaining. The most eye-opening point was his lack of anti-air (in contrast to Samus)
Another banger from pyro! I tried maining mewtwo once, I love his moveset and how floaty he is, but something about him just feels wrong in every game ive played him in.
As a Mewtwo main since his smash 4 release, I think this is the most accurate and complete video I've ever seen on the matter. Some stuff I would add: -While he got some stronger kill moves, his combo game and kill confirms got much worse/inconsistent while the average punish game for the rest of the cast got much better, making his intended "glass cannon" design not really work anymore -Nair hitbox got smaller, making his anti-airing abilities even worse (also combined with tail hurtbox on utilt/uair/bair if you try to use them for that) -Shieldgrab nerf and overall unpunishability of every move in this game hurt his gameplan a lot. A "defensive" character that can't really anti air well, but also struggles to punish out of shield, in a game where a lot of the cast likes to air camp and use safe aerials, is rough Some other stuff that isn't as important but could be mentioned are bodyblocking doing much more bad than good for him, teleport cancel nerf, disable's new animation making it easier to pancake...
Despite not having an interest in competitive Smash anymore, definitely think your content is super interesting and worth watching. Huge props to you for pulling me in with your well worded shit
10:01 Man this is a visual for how bad that tail hitbox is, with Hero's up smash. Already notorious for just not hitting anyone that isn't directly above him, still hitting Mewtwo at the side lol
Thank you for finally answering my long-unanswered question of why Mewtwo is low tier in Ult but top tier in Smash 4. I was always confused at why Mewtwo is a bad character, and all I know is the tail hitbox hindering his ability to dodge attacks, until this video came out. Cheers to you Pyro, and keep up the good content!
I've mained Mewtwo since Smash 4, I'm Cigotoast and I think M2 could still be viable if meta was more centered around characters like Wolf where fundamentals and understanding of the general ruels of the game were important but nowadays he suffers from not having any specific minigame / unchallenged interactions like the rest of the cast.
Mewtwo can’t catch a break man. He’s either impossibly hard to use properly in a given game and a low tier, or braindead and spammable as a high tier. Why does my favorite character get treated this way 😭
I really liked the character focus style you did for this video, if you don't mind taking recommendations on the near opposite of Mewtwo, going from bottom to top tier G&W and/or Pac-Man, both were not good in Sm4sh while are now great here, I think it would be cool to talk about how they improved with all the mechanic changes. Roy is another good example if you don't wanna do more zoners too!
Very excited ro watch this. Mewtwo is an awesome character and it's wild a char with so many powerful tools is relegated to the lower tiers of ult. I wish he was more common.
As an old sm4sh mewtwo main, im glad this vid acknowledges alllll of the issues. Mewtwos just not built for ultimate, lets hope they try again in another game.
I pretty heavily considered picking up Mewtwo in my earliest days of Ultimate but I had no knowledge of why he just felt worse in this game than he did in Smash 4 I went to go learn why and thought I understood it pretty well And yet even all these years later you release a video that teaches me even MORE about what led to this point This is good content :D
i remember a little bit before ult was released they were doing a promo where you could go and play the game early at some select best buy locations, and you had i think like 1-2 matches. the dread i felt when i played mewtwo for the first time in ult will never be matched by any broken dlc release, they literally gutted him so hard compared to most other characters whyyyy
![[SSBU] Jumping is Overpowered](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BmcpWL4FEp8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[SSBU] Jumping is Overpowered](/img/tr.png)
![[SSBU] Smash's Best Grab](/img/n.gif)
UPDATE: The other thumbnail won the A/B test, so i switched the title to accomodate. "What Happened to Mewtwo" was still a very good title but considering the other thumbnail is performing slightly better i figured it's better to completely skew the title over to something more typical of the channel. So if you see people talking about the "black bar over eyes thumbnail" that's the deal.
Anyways please subscribe lol
Valid! Hope the video does well
i am so fucking mad
I feel attacked.
You were. Multiple times. Because of the nerfs. Sorry
It’ll be alright …
…There’s always next game
Its okay, trust 🥺
lol
lol same here I’m also a mewtwo player
You have NO idea how long I've been waiting for a competitive deep dive on Mewtwo from a channel like you. Used to take him to locals all the way up until Steves release and MAN was every fight scrappy. Your breakdowns are really eloquently worded and your research is really in depth.
Great work. Loved everything I've seen of yours so far, looking forward to what comes out next.
Noooo not the black bar over eyes thumbnail 😭 "what happened to Mr Shit" 💀
C A N C E L L E D
Yeah that meme ruined those kind of thumbnails for ever
“The Rise and Fall of Mr Shit” but actually fits because Mewtwo really did have a rise and fall.
they changed the thumbnail
Mewtwo just makes me sad in Ultimate, on paper he's a cool character and I've tried multiple times to pick him up, but I keep bumping into the reality that *he can't do anything.* I don't think I've ever played a Smash character that feels so bottlenecked into the same couple of options over and over, this was a really great summary of what causes that.
Yeah, i can feel this. I'm no pro player by all means and i haven't played competitive smash in a while but when i did i had mewtwo as a secondary and it just was the same gameplan every time.
Hi MockRock!
Bro you get me
I feel exactly the opposite way about him o.O
Mewtwo player from Texas here. Im glad someone finally put all of his weaknesses into words. So many people just chalk it up to the tail when it goes so much deeper than that. Been a fan of your content for a while and this was nice surprise to see. Great vid 🔥
As a Ridley main who often complains about the character's hurtbox, I played Ult for the first time in like 3 years with a fresh mentality and a lot of clarity I didn't have before.
Fought a Mewtwo, and after fighting him for a bit I was just like... "wait, what the fuck happened to this character, was he always so bad? What is he supposed to do?" And proceeded to annihilate the poor player too many times and now I'm going to hell for my sins.
I literally just posted a comment about Mewtwo and this video uploaded. The algorithm is reading me so hard it's forcing TH-camrs to upload
I just watched Zain’s video on Mewtwo and now I get this, we’re both getting read by the algorithm
On a TH-cam video or some other social media?
Moving from move specific videos to character specific ones, nice.
Great explanation on the differences between samus and mewtwo! 'Zoning' is a complex idea, but framing it as control and punishment of aerial or ground movement really is intuitive. This also explains why samus is so much more effective -- even tho her "zoning" tools (missiles) were made a lot less effective from 4 to ult and via patches, gaining a big boost to speed and aerial denial metagame were a big boost. Mewtwo got the opposite treatment.
And also why the matchup is so BAD for samus! Mewtwo can use superior mobility to enforce samus to go for a ground approach, and samus HATES having to jump over shadow ball. As for defense -- mewtwo isn't THAT much more harder for samus to ko, but their high kill power makes samus's strong weight a lot less of a boon. You don't get to live much longer when you have the threat of fair offstage deleting you at 40, for instance! This goes for both characters. But only one has the mobility to make it happen
It's also funny when you realize that Samus is widely considered an A tier but has a difficult matchup into a random D tier like Mewtwo.
If you think about it, any other character with a charge-shot esque move is going to make it hard for Samus to play the game. They have either better mobility, a reflector, or in Mewtwo's case: both. This means that a character who thrives off conditioning with charge shot and struggles with approaching now has to deal with another character who conditions with charge shot - _by_ approaching. In other words, all the control of neutral Samus is known to get just disappears as soon as someone like Mewtwo presses the B button.
I don't even have to get into the ways Mewtwo can kill Samus at 40%. The fact that her win condition of conditioning with charge shot is lost to Mewtwo's shadow ball and confusion is enough to call it a bad matchup.
Hopefully one day we can move away from the top 15 allegations, because this is far from the worst character diff Samus has to deal with.
FireThePyro uploads I click
Mewtwo content fire, call that sick
FirethePyro upload, I click it quick
Bars in the comments, proceed to spit
Mewtwo main here. This video was genuinely fantastic!
Despite all his headaches, I still absolutely love this character, and find him to be the most fun in the game. His unique tools just work with how I like to play.
I see a lot of people who like to underrate Mewtwo and say “he’s only overlooked because of tail” but he has so many other smaller issues that add up over time.
Like that example you brought up with his nerfed Nair. I couldn’t image how many times I try a Nair follow up and it just sends in an inconsistent direction.
His double jump is so unique in allowing him to get some insane edge guards, but it hinders him so badly in disadvantage, and it’s something I never saw visualized so well in a smash video.
It would be quite interesting to see a version of this character who focused more on aggression rather than bait-and-punish zoning.
Anyways, keep up the good work!
Dude I LOVE how you edited the section at 4:37. Like instead of telling us what she can hit you just showed us which is so cool dude. Keep up the amazing work
meta knight crying about mewtwo is hilarious
Does bro know what atrocities his main has committed
Does he know?
The Mewtwo/MK matchup was extremely bad for MK, but that was way more the fault of MK's completely linear approach than it was anything about Mewtwo.
just remembered I’m thinking of the wrong game lol
@@bencrandall-malcolm8303 that is wrong, mewtwo's floatiness combined with his light weight made him basically dead at any percent past 20 if he was caught with a stray dash attack
as a mewtwo main im really glad he's getting more coverage in these types of videos
Spot-on video! It's strange how what was one of the best characters at getting off ledge is now one of the worst characters at getting off the ledge.
Side note: It wasn't mentioned, but one result of side-B losing its aerial boost made it so you could no longer let go of ledge and hit an awaiting opponent without having to use your double jump, thus eliminating it as an option to help get off the ledge.
Your videos are some of the best SSBU videos left on the platform man
I LOVE playing Mewtwo, he's insanely strong and has a really fun grab game but MY GOD he just does not function as a character. Basically every good thing he has is messed up in some way.
He's SUPER mobile but his massive double jump makes a ton of stuff way harder. Fair is insanely strong but half the cast low profiles it OOS. Confusion combos into Fair but it's unreliable because you need to be pretty precise about your vertical spacing. His forward throw does a ton of damage, but a lot of the time you'll miss at least one shadow ball, and then it's just average. He's massive so he's got range but the tail hurtbox hampers that range and despite being big he's stupid light. Basically everything he has is at least a little messed up in some way.
You touched on this with dtilt but they also gutted fair and utilts combo abilities. Fair used to chain reliably at low percents and utilt could very consistently scoop into usmash at kill percents and neither of those work now.
Etika 🥲❤️
I get most of the adjustments they made to Mewtwo, a lot of them were kind of just results of how Ultimate's engine changed things, but the tail... literally why, man. I get it's not his biggest issue, but why give him that stank ass tail hurt box...
They probably just saw that Mewtwo had that extra tail hurtbox in Melee, went “Oh hey, there’s a potential nerf to this top tier that’s also bringing something back from an older game,” and did it for the hell of it.
Funnily enough, something Pyro didn’t mention in this video is that they tried to mitigate the effects of the tail hurtbox twice by making it smaller and then making Mewtwo’s shield bigger and changing his pose in the shield, but sadly, those were very much just bandaid solutions.
Next game they’ll probably just go back to one hurtbox on the tail like Smash 4, since they seemingly realized that the extra hurtbox was a problem, but just didn’t want to get rid of it.
@@ReitheOffbeatOtakuI like how they felt the need to take Mewtwo down a peg, but god forbid they give similar treatment to Sonic.
@ What’s crazy is that we all forget about this now because post-pandemic Sonic is seen as a contender for the best character in Ultimate, but he actually did get some pretty notable nerfs coming into the game from Smash 4.
To name the biggest ones from Smashwiki’s list of changes, his Spin Dash and Spin Charge both lost the ability to be charged indefinitely and cross up shield, he lost the ability to cancel Spin Dash by shielding, his up air got gutted and made more inconsistent, his up throw lost most of its combos, and he was made lighter, so he dies earlier compared to Smash 4.
So yeah, it feels like Sonic only got a slap on the wrist in hindsight because of how much Ultimate’s general engine changes benefitted him, but he did genuinely lose quite a bit between games; we could’ve had a version of Sonic in Smash Ultimate that was somehow even more campy with even less committal movement options, lmao.
@ ye, the shield canceling one was a major aspect to it that stuck out when Ult came out, but spin dash/charge themselves are still both very safe burst movement options.
I’m still just mad they stopped all support quite early in addition to all of this. Considering games like SF5 and Tekken 7 were older and got support for a much longer timespan than Ult.
@ Yeah, I agree the patches should’ve gone on for longer; it’s a shame that they just stopped like, a month after Sora came out when they definitely could’ve kept it going for another year.
I think the most core issue with Nintendo's philosophy on changing Mewtwo for Ultimate is that it's like they forgot how important it is for an aggressive character to be able to escape on defense. No matter what game you're in, it doesn't matter how good it _could_ be when you get in if you're just going to get run over anytime something goes wrong. It's why traditional fighters always give reversals to their rushdown characters, or why shotguns have the theoretically fastest kill time in a shooter, or why heavies live so long, because without it you just can't afford to go in most of the time. They gave Mewtwo a bunch of reward when he does get in, but they also made it so he can't save himself if it gets him in trouble, especially not with his low survivability, so he just isn't using it half the time
0:15 that hurts
I think the devs didn’t anticipate the meta going in such a jump heavy direction
how they buffed the shit out of jump?????
Buffed jump and nerfed shield, roll, spot dodge, and shield grab. How could they not know the meta would shift to an aerial game?…Maybe Sakurai was right Smash isn’t a fighting game because the devs don’t know what they’re doing.
3:03 it's small, but seeing the wii u internet curtains hit me with a wave of nostalgia like you would never believe
0:27 Don't forget my man Marth.
Mr social distance can't social distance man.
IMO, Marth suffers more from just not being worth it and outclassed which, is a recurring problem with Ultimate’s roster.
What's a tier list when you have a really beefy back air that feels better to edge guard with than any other type of recreational drug?
@@Pepeutra and using double jump to double the hitbox feels like crack. I feel you.
Strange despite also being addicted to this character. I can confidently say his back air is one of my least favorite to use in the entire game.
@Team-Eclipse6024 for sure, draft back air onto any other unassuming character that falls faster and has less drift, back air would be a horrible move, near useless.
On Mewtwo though, with his amazing double jump height and aerial control, back air becomes a monster at edgeguarding (one of the only good things the move is good at). with its disjoint and its animation sweeping from low to high, double jumping while using it lets you cover both recoveries from low and stage height. It can also be combo’d into itself to drag people towards the blast zone. If they airdodge through it, a down air spike is possible on most of the cast. On mewtwo, the move works.
DK?
@@stephenrichter8940 dk recovery is too poor to edgeguard below the stage, and dk’s bair is already one of his best moves and a really great button.
mewtwo main from ontario here(yes, ignore my pfp), and i just wanted to say that this is an absolutely phenomenal video(as per usual LOL)! i started my competitive journey with mewtwo a couple years ago and recently have been feeling a bit conflicted in my choice despite how much faith i have in him(i'm a bit infamous in my region for glazing how theoretically strong mewtwo can be), and you've really eloquently put into words the full breadth of how he struggles in this game. i really hate when people chalk up his failings solely to the tail, so i'm really thankful for how you've fully examined everything working against him. amazing work as always!
although, i am a bit surprised that you didn't mention any of his many other buffs throughout ultimate's lifespan, because he truly was an abysmal character at the start of the game(part of my theory as to why he's so under repped) but got buffed into something, dare-i-say, 'viable'.
Wonderful video, I’ve been talking to my friends about the whole “force you to approach the way you wanted to anyways” thing during tier list discussions, but I had no idea about his smash 4 changes.
key difference is that he isn't a DLC anymore
also i get the problems you mention at 7:40 about mew2 being unapproachable and him needing the nerf, but the clip you show as an example moreso demonstrates how strong shields were in smash 4 and how they dominated the meta. idk if the same would apply in ultimate if mew2 were still equally as strong
My sub box the last week has been “why Mewtwo fell off in Pokémon” and “What happened to Mewtwo in Ultimate?”
Reminds me of vars III's video from a couple of years ago, you have a lot of moves which are good at sealing stocks and dealing damage. But, with zero defensive utility whatsoever. He also gave the best explanation of the problems of the tail hurtbox. Which is that carries the risk of extending your hurtbox. Therefore, making it risky to use in combat. Even though you have to.. Which basically sums the experience of playing the character.
Even tho I’m no longer as involved in the smash scene I really love your analyses and quick wit! Great videos
These are the days I've waited for
how convenient that I was just thinking about the second luminosity tier list, wondering how everyone's favorite genetic pokemon got so low, and then being blessed with a video perfectly explaining from one of the best smashtubers
I really like your analysis between 4 and Ult for characters, hope we get more of these.
Another in depth video by Pyro?? Gladly
adored this video so high quality and well made too ❤
babe wake up another firethepyro video focusing on the change of mewtwo over multiple smash games just dropped
All of a sudden I heard the haunted house music from bomber man 64 the second attack. It was the first game that I was able to record with my dazzle capture card like 15 or 20 years ago or something. The first videos I ever posted on this channel were from that game and I still love it to this day. So I instantly recognized that music and you earned the like for that alone.The rest of the video is great, but noticing that made me extremely happy.
Resident Mewtwo main here, and I gotta say, you put it all so... perfectly. Though I think the tail is a bigger deal then you made it out to be, because it makes it MUCH harder to disengage if an interaction goes south. The best way I can describe Mewtwo is volatile. if you can get a meaningful hit off, and take stage control, your advantage is monstrous. You have the tools to capitalize. But if something happens, like getting hit off stage, you have like... 3 tools to escape disadvantage. In neutral, shadow ball, and intimidation are your best tools. If one is hampered, the match becomes substantially harder to win.
Mewtwo getting announced as DLC for smash 4 was probably the most hype smash reveal
cloud ?
Uuuuh what? It's Cloud
Sora? Sephiroth? Steve? Joker? Banjo&Kazooie?
Nah. Mewtwo.
(Source: trust me bro)
Bro he said smash four
8:34 Nice reference to Soundsmith
Tf2 will always find its way in my mind it seems
i never clicked on a recommended video so fast
Great vid as always!
Didn't expect to see a well edited video on my main today, nonetheless one that ends with NiTW music. Excellent taste across the board
I’m a mewtwo main so I’m glad to see a video on him haha. Also I got this in recommended 2 minutes after upload what?
I appreciate this video. You make consistent bangers one after another, however, I do feel like most of these issues get worked out when you start playing him like Joker, but arsene has a hitbox, and not as a rushdown aggressor, nor as a campy nerd. He is a god at bait and punish spacing. While he isn't tiny like joker, he makes up for having some straight busted range tacked on with stupid mobility. Space, hold center stage, bait with shadowball, wait for opponent to slip, kill at funny percents. Apart from that, I got some extra points to mention:
1 - Fair is nuts. It is cracked as an anti air. Time it right and they'll never jump again. It can also be safely spaced if you know they're baiting it out. Fair is nuts in general; timed right, i can reverse an opponent's advantage and annihilate someone's over confidence while in disadvantage. Don't use nair, bair or dair in disadvantage or you're asking for death.
2 - Tail hitbox is funny, but usually is a signifier myself pressing W on someone too much in a matchup. If you're facing forward against your opponent in neutral, you will won't have to worry too much about it. If I'm getting hit in my tail, then im doing something wrong. Also accidental tail hits mid combo can mess up them entirely. Its funny to fall out of what should be true combos because oops it hit tail hitbox. M2 being tall sucks, but m2 tail stops being a problem through experience.
3 - shadowball is usually for bating people into forward air. Now thinking about it, jump meta isn't too bad when you can hit fairs reliably.
A bunch of annoying things can be dealt with on this character through a little bit of patience, but no one wants to bother adapting to them because m2 tail lol. The moment you call m2 tail a skill issue is when you start improving as m2.
I wanted to say not a Mii Brawler vid how could that be, then I saw the first ten seconds. great video!
I like how every swordie in the game has fast attacks and plenty of range, with disjoints because their swords don't have hurtboxes... And then there's Mewtwo, whose tail is basically a sword but with a hurtbox.
To be fair. It’s not like they took their time on the swordies at all.
Just look at Chrom. He’s so rushed, they didn’t give him Ike’s side-b.
Good analysis. I had wondered why Mewtwo fell off in Ultimate, and this video did a good job explaining. The most eye-opening point was his lack of anti-air (in contrast to Samus)
Another banger from pyro! I tried maining mewtwo once, I love his moveset and how floaty he is, but something about him just feels wrong in every game ive played him in.
When i saw sephiroth, i just thought he was better M2. because he has an actual sword, double jump and not tail hurtbox
Mewtwo? Is that a Mii Brawler player or something?
LilyLambda
Mewthree (steve) happened
Wouldn't mewthree be sora?
Just for added measure, his fall off mirrors his Pokemon viability. He's been power crept to hell in both Smash and Pokemon.
I'm gonna say it. Your videos are the best smash videos on youtube.
As a Mewtwo main since his smash 4 release, I think this is the most accurate and complete video I've ever seen on the matter. Some stuff I would add:
-While he got some stronger kill moves, his combo game and kill confirms got much worse/inconsistent while the average punish game for the rest of the cast got much better, making his intended "glass cannon" design not really work anymore
-Nair hitbox got smaller, making his anti-airing abilities even worse (also combined with tail hurtbox on utilt/uair/bair if you try to use them for that)
-Shieldgrab nerf and overall unpunishability of every move in this game hurt his gameplan a lot. A "defensive" character that can't really anti air well, but also struggles to punish out of shield, in a game where a lot of the cast likes to air camp and use safe aerials, is rough
Some other stuff that isn't as important but could be mentioned are bodyblocking doing much more bad than good for him, teleport cancel nerf, disable's new animation making it easier to pancake...
the nitw music (mallard's tomb) at the end💚
Despite not having an interest in competitive Smash anymore, definitely think your content is super interesting and worth watching. Huge props to you for pulling me in with your well worded shit
Oh this is why you needed the moxi video LOL
Well done video as always btw
My BOY!!!
I love the mister shit thumbnail
Has the Mii Brawler well finally dried up? No, this is actually a video about... Mii-wtwo
10:01
Man this is a visual for how bad that tail hitbox is, with Hero's up smash. Already notorious for just not hitting anyone that isn't directly above him, still hitting Mewtwo at the side lol
MewTwo is like that one cool guy in high school when you meet him years later. He fell off harder than my ego when I miss a Shulk counter.
Thank you for finally answering my long-unanswered question of why Mewtwo is low tier in Ult but top tier in Smash 4. I was always confused at why Mewtwo is a bad character, and all I know is the tail hitbox hindering his ability to dodge attacks, until this video came out. Cheers to you Pyro, and keep up the good content!
you can't just hit me with the mallard's tomb like that
Babe wake up, its the new Fire the Pyro video!
Let's go we are so back
I've mained Mewtwo since Smash 4, I'm Cigotoast and I think M2 could still be viable if meta was more centered around characters like Wolf where fundamentals and understanding of the general ruels of the game were important but nowadays he suffers from not having any specific minigame / unchallenged interactions like the rest of the cast.
Mewtwo can’t catch a break man. He’s either impossibly hard to use properly in a given game and a low tier, or braindead and spammable as a high tier. Why does my favorite character get treated this way 😭
FireThePyro now thats a nice intro.
I really liked the character focus style you did for this video, if you don't mind taking recommendations on the near opposite of Mewtwo, going from bottom to top tier G&W and/or Pac-Man, both were not good in Sm4sh while are now great here, I think it would be cool to talk about how they improved with all the mechanic changes. Roy is another good example if you don't wanna do more zoners too!
Very excited ro watch this. Mewtwo is an awesome character and it's wild a char with so many powerful tools is relegated to the lower tiers of ult. I wish he was more common.
WWWWW I finally figured out what he was in Mewtwocord for :3
@@mewblaster_ I didn’t even notice
As an old sm4sh mewtwo main, im glad this vid acknowledges alllll of the issues. Mewtwos just not built for ultimate, lets hope they try again in another game.
"What's Mewtwo Left to do? ...Run away."
kinda lore accurate
I pretty heavily considered picking up Mewtwo in my earliest days of Ultimate but I had no knowledge of why he just felt worse in this game than he did in Smash 4
I went to go learn why and thought I understood it pretty well
And yet even all these years later you release a video that teaches me even MORE about what led to this point
This is good content :D
Babe wake up Fire the Pryo dropped
Very well put together vid! Really wish Mewtwo wasnt so ass in Ult hes such a sick character 😭
Babe wake up, new fire the pyro video
DONBROS REFERENCE NOT EVEN A MINUTE IN
This is gonna be good
HE'S BAAAACK
He remembered his password
wake up babe firethepyro just dropped
Playing MewTwo
Cons:
This entire video
Pros:
He's fun and I like him :)
Love this channel
Mewtwo is my new secondary, so I needed this. He may not be the best character, but he’s still cool af. Thanks Fire🔥🔥🔥
Everyone! Firethepyro uploaded!
pls do one on Ganondorf (I'm a Ganondorf main and need more excuses for when I get outplayed and lose)
I love these videos fr
8:21 The part we were waiting for
Oh, and also, don't forget how Up Smash's scoop hitbox just... doesn't do anything half of the time, when it was super reliable in Smash 4.
nitw music at the end 🔥🔥🔥
I loved him in Sm4sh 4... He's like TikTok after the ban in Ultimate. He looks the same but he is so, so not
I should comment about how great the video is before I could have possibly watched all of it
3:04 I giggled when I realized that's the wii u web browser curtain
7:21 abusing their mobility? where have i seen that before... 🦔
i remember a little bit before ult was released they were doing a promo where you could go and play the game early at some select best buy locations, and you had i think like 1-2 matches. the dread i felt when i played mewtwo for the first time in ult will never be matched by any broken dlc release, they literally gutted him so hard compared to most other characters whyyyy
Poor Mewtwo. Got power crept in Pokemon _and_ Smash Bros...
I LOVE MISSING A TH-camR FOR MONTHS TO GET 10 MINUTE VIDEOS!!