Good video. I recommend doing a series that is an offshoot. In this series, you start with a good game, a starter or common ... and then go specifically for next steps for that game: Catan - Next Steps Spice Road - Next Steps Carcassanne - Next Steps Just address different games a person who likes each might look to next.
This is a great idea. If you loved Catan, or Carcassonne, what would be the next step game that expands on those mechanics. Although with Carcassonne, there are a few expansions. :)
May I suggest a tweet, focus on a major game mechanism (like Worker Placement, Area Majority, Deduction, Card Drafting, etc) or game category (like Civilization, Economic, Fantasy, War, etc) and tell us the “Up Your Game” (I think would be a good title for the segment, LOL) tips for each from gateway all the up to really complicated heavy games. Pretty much the same idea but has the benefits of using a classic game mechanic instead of a game that maybe someone hasn’t heard of. For example, I know nothing about Spice Road as a game (just looked it up now on BGG to get a clue), so that means nothing to me, but using it as a good gateway example of an Economic game or Engine Builder and moving up to medium and heavy weight recommendations is more interesting to me plus I learn more about the mechanic or category to see if that’s something I want to explore that I might have overlooked. Another advantage is that it teaches viewers about popular game mechanics and categories. In general, I like the suggestion (either way you want to go about it) as it has something for everyone, no matter where they are on the gaming spectrum.
@@Elvite the specific reason to base it off a game and not a mechanic is that more people search youtube for a game rather than mechanic. Alex is also mainly in the business of people trading used games. So this gives his business a boost because he can help people go from a lower tier to a higher one that would better fit them today. I know based on some videos for kickstarter projects I've found other similar games that I've both picked up and avoided based on his comments. P.S. ... starting with a game, then including the mechanics and setting and such as other keywords would help, but starting narrow and expanding. I did read a "beyond Catan" article once that took different aspects of Catan and talked about a low weight and then heavy weight game or three for each aspect ... so I've seen this at a core and can see the synergies with @BoardGameCo
I agree. Plus, some gamers never get passed the “Next Step” level of board games, even though they absolutely love board games. I try to mostly look for game BGG weighted no more than 3.5 (unless they have a good solo option), mostly trying to favor less than 3’s as some of the people I play with really don’t like heavy games. Lists like this are always helpful.
I mean wouldn't most of these "next step" games rating around 2.5 or so be considered "medium" games? I mean really what is a "medium game"? If a "get them to the table" game like Camel up is 1.48. Wouldn't a "medium" game be maybe 2.0 - 3.0? Then Heavy 3.0 and above?
At the moment, my wife and I are at that next level step in our boardgaming hobby. We are currently loving: Raiders Of The North Sea, Wingspan, Everdell, Rajas Of The Ganges and Orleans. And I´m realy looking foreward to Lost Ruins of Arnak.
I have found that Bus, Everdell, and Nemesis work well as "Next step" games depending on the person. (Bus for thinky strategy people, Everdell for less intense strategy people, and Nemesis for experience/fun people)
My typical next level is Lords of Waterdeep. It isn't too weighty, is a stealth Euro-style game, where the workers are fighters, clerics, rogues and wizards, and it is set in the D&D universe. It plays well at 2, but is better with 3 or 4. Roll for the Galaxy is a nice fast moving multiplayer, and adding players doesn't slow the game down. Roll is a bit easier to teach to new players than Race, because in Race cards are everything, the dice provide a separation. I have had good luck with Wingspan and The Crew - Quest for Planet Nine ( which is also great as a travel game ). Don't rule out solo or group board gaming on PC, I tend to go for the purpose made games. Dire Wolf has great versions of both Sagrada and Root. Playdek has very good versions of Lords of Waterdeep and Twilight Struggle. You can find things at every game length and weight. Roll for the Galaxy and Race for the Galaxy both have good PC ports from Temple Gates Games ( I still haven't played Shards of Infinity from them ). Handelabra Games has a good port of Spirit Island and Aeon's End. There are also the game engines like Tabletop Simulator, or Tabletopia. A PC version of a board game and Discord can be a nice way to "spend some time with family" even when you can't, regardless of the reasons.
Hey Alex, here’s a suggestion for the editing averse person you are (😜) for when you talk about games you physically have present. You always do a great job showing the front cover of each box, however, I recommend you flip the box over to the back cover and push it up towards the camera once you start talking about that game. It’ll give us a good look at the game board and components and is much more informative than the front cover is. I usually find myself always having BGG up whenever you talk about these games so I can see what the game looks like and I think if you had the back cover nicely visible that would help inform viewers while you talk and keep us from getting distracted by BGG. Of course you probably can’t push the back cover of the box too far forward to the point your camera has focusing problems between you and the box, but you have such a nice camera I bet you can get it fairly close and not have focusing issues. Experiment a little. Thanks! Love your commentary!!!!
That's a good suggestion. It's an issue board game commentary and live streams really struggle with. Video games and movies can just throw up clips from gameplay or trailers when they are talking - real easy. But board games are so physical that capturing the art, components, etc. from every angle almost takes an expert in cameras, lighting, and video editing - and a whole lot of time!
This kind of content is excellent. I've been easing my wife into the hobby by getting gateway games with different mechanics so she discovers what she likes and I found out that she likes games with "screwage" possibilities haha. I got Agricola Family Edition and she loves it for 2 reasons: 1) she loves the farming theme 2) she loves blocking me whenever it's possible. She is ruthless! And I think that couldn't have happened if she haven't played other games first. So, thanks for this list! Now I'm looking at Parks
This is a great topic! I’ve been on the fence about Istanbul because I played the base game and loved it but I agree with you it is a little too simple after a few rounds. Hearing that the Mocha and Baksheesh expansion elevates that to a “next step” game has convinced me to pick it up for myself :) BTW I really like where you’re filming 👍🏻
So, for buzzwords I was taking a shot every time you said "phenomenal" but booze was costing me more than board games...lol. I love that word so I couldn't help but notice when you said it.
Sure, I’ll try making a list. I, too, will choose 11: Isle of Cats Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition Clank Junk Art Search for Planet X Mystic Vale Raiders of the North Sea Sub Terra Wiz War Isle of Skye Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective
Great job.. same vain my shout outs would be , skulk hollow, escape from the aliens in outer space , roam, galaxy trucker , dead of winter.. cause these blew so many into my groups..
I always find Architects of the West Kingdom, Champions of Midgard, Raiders of the North Sea and Le Havre always seams to go over well with next level gamers. And yes my wife moved from gateway to next level with Concordia and Power Grid.
Alex, I usually will continue watching a video after a mid-video ad appears, but if a 2nd one comes on that's it and I'm done. There's money to be made, so I get it. I have no problem with the pre-video ads, but the mid-vid ad are disruptive.
Steve, that's fine. I put 1 midroll per 10 minutes of content. It's going to stay that way across the board. It's both about paying myself for my time (as much as I can) and also about the TH-cam algorithm. Totally get it if that doesn't work for you but that's going to be a channel staple in general.
Two game series I never see you talk about, but we love in our house, are Empires of the North (a big improvement on Imperial Settlers), and the West Kingdom games. Paladins is getting an expansion, Viscounts should be out soon, and The West Kingdom Tomesaga to turn the three games into a campaign. Also not sure where Watergate would fall in, but I love it too.
I debated watergate for this list :) empires of the north is on my shelf unplayed, the west kingdom series in general I've always enjoyed but never loved.
Great list! Convinced me of unwrapping Glen More II which was staring at me from the shelf while you were talking ;) Will introduce it to my group. They are ready! Like the channel. Subscribed!
Of those games in my collection, Alchemists and Clank have been good next level games. They have the essense of a game that is a bit hard to learn, but becomes very intuitive while playing, which i think helps to deal with "fear of rulebooks"
@@BoardGameCo yeah alchemists is much more complex, i usually dont explain all actions at once. Selling 2nd round, publishing 3rd round, end game 4th round Its definitely not the first next level game i would play, but a great entry to more complex games
BGG's "Weight" rating system is completely skewed. Mainly because the people that write the reviews are seriously invested in games. Medium weight games can reasonably be rated as 2 to 2.5, although the scale goes from 1-5, so what I can infer is that long time enthusiasts sort of lose track of the fact that a game like Wingspan is light, but not gateway.
Nice list. Many fine choices ... and for the record I agree on the timer in Chinatown as it does add the element of urgency and not mathing it all out. I am a huge Clans of Caledonia fan and one that I believe qualifies as a "Next Step" game. Brings in some new mechanics to build on from gateway games. Pretty easy to teach and will have a nice familiar feel from that gateway game.
Personally I generally think games with a BGG weight of below 2 are gateway games. Your five suggested gateway games are all below this weight. I would say "Next Games" broadly have a weight of 2 to 2.5. Anything above that would most likely be too much of a jump for newbies looking for the next step up. Therefore out of your games I might include Istanbul at 2.58, possibly City of Spies at 2.52 (although do not know it myself), Bunny Kingdom, Chinatown, Tak (again I do not know them), Parks, and Zombicide Black Plague, and Cthulhu: Death May Die.
Just picked up Forgotten Waters a couple days ago. I think this hits this category perfectly. A semi-coop with easy rules, a touch of screwage and huge amounts of story and theme to keep everyone engaged. I think its going to be a great way to lead people down the rabbit hole.... ;)
Excellent video, these games are all in my wishlist now :) I'd like to suggest also Blood rage, Seasons and Lords of Xidit, which all has been loved by mid-to-new players in my group The best one has been Zombicide for sure!
@@BoardGameCo yeah, we found out that by removing the (important i know) draft phase and give random cards instead for the first matches, the situation remained a bit more balanced
loved the video! you did already gateway games and here are next step games, I would love to hear a list of your favorite gamer games (the heavy ones) next.
Games like Glen More 2, Istanbul and Everdell are all great candidates for further bringing folks into the hobby, past the gateway games. I would also suggest Raiders of the North Sea/Scythia, Architects of the West Kingdom, Viticulture and Roll Player as some titles that fit this "next step" mold.
Res Arcana for sure. The iconography is very straightforward, there's only a couple cards and places of power that need a little more explaining, and the fact that you're just doing one action per turn keeps people from feeling overwhelmed. The game is also short enough that once the kinks of the first playthrough have been worked out it's very easy to suggest that "one more game", which is something I think is very important for newer gamers. Plus there's the four "beginner" Mage/Card setups that are highly functional and super easy to learn. It's also a gorgeous game. The amount of detail in the card artwork is astonishing, and the fantasy theme is tastefully done. Great, highly functional insert too.
Great choices, though I find Zombicide far too Alpha gamer prone. The way a game looks and its component quality is something im finding more important the deeper I get into this hobby. Rajas of the Ganges is a game that doesn't get enough love in this game weight category in my opinion.
i forget who it was, but i had seen a TH-cam video calling them foundation games, rather than gateway games, because they can be replayed and revisited even after you grow. Some good next step games; Big Book of Madness for a co-op Descent or Massive Darkness for a campaign style dungeon crawler Colt Express for a light competitive Core Worlds for a heavy competitive
Istanbul actually has a big box with a very fair price. Sounds to me like it's and excellent option to have; gateway game that you can scale up when you you want to.
Undaunted: Normandy is light enough to be a next step game for those who enjoy tactical decisions and grinding each other into the dirty. It's also quite attractive.
Estoril 1942 is a wonderful game, try it. Best Portuguese game ever. The story behind it is very interesting. Spies in Portugal during WWII, not a subject that too much spoken of, but it was the main place for spies . I love it, there is a big box with some expansions also. MEBO GAMES
Excellent video! On your advice, I purchased Cthulhu Death May Die, and am loving it! It provides an incredibly cinematic, chaotic experience both solo and cooperatively. I would love to see a video that compares all of the Zombicide games. I want to follow your advice again and get Black Plague, but the sci-fi element of Invader appeals to me more (although the characters don't at all).
I'd love to do that video, the problem is I played black plague the most and barely any of the others, so until I play the others more I'm not well equipped to compare.
For our group it was power grid. It was an easy game to teach and I got to give everyone little jobs. You can be the bank, you can adjust player order and keep track of the building and I did the market admin. Everyone grasped the strategy of the game after the first play through and instantly demanded a rematch
Nice video! I’ve tried to be tactical when introducing new people to games; I try and start with a simple version of the mechanic we are shooting for and build from that. For example I want to teach Spirit Island- so I started with Pandemic (to teach co-op play) and Star Realms (to teach basics of deckbuilding and combos)
I had no idea there was a 'next level'' level of board games. I thought these were 'medium'. This kind of destroyed my view of myself as a board gamer. Most of my games that I currently enjoy fall into 'next level'. I thought I was farther along on the journey. So what games would be considered 'medium' level then? By the way, I bought City of Spies thanks to your recommendation! Someone in the comments on one of your previous videos said there existed a "super box" version. Well since I always have to own the pimped-out, deluxe version of any board game (like that Everdell Collectors Edition you have there - don't want to pay $90 though), I did some searching and it is nowhere to be found in the US, so I purchased it from an online store in France! It arrives Friday. Shipping wasn't as bad as I was expecting.
Oh don't get me wrong, these are all excellent games I'd be happy to play anytime. But if I were classifying weight I'd prob have 4 categories. Gateway, next level, strategic, brain burner.
Medium might be Castell, Scythe, Viticulture with the Tuscany expansion, Terraforming Mars, Bus...just some from my collection I can think of. If you look on BGG the ~2.5-3.5 weight rating can be a good guide (BGG weight should be taken with a grain of salt, Though)
Bunny Kingdom is an amazing game and probably does belong on this list (it would probably be on mine). I have noticed with gamers early in their journey they can sometimes get lose in the math (as simple as it is)
Great list! Some of these are my favorite games, in particular Everdell (Which I just discovered) and City of Spies (which I've had for years), Zombicide Black Plague, are some of my favorites. Next step games I really like that aren't on your list are Oceans, Castles of Burgundy (though arguably this may not be in this category). I'm thinking that Edge of Darkness should be on the list (I haven't played it yet) as its kind of the next step beyond Mystic Vale, which is a great gateway game.
My personal next step are to just look for personal favorites that rate lower than 3.00 weight on BGG. Those games happen to be Mansions of Madness, Small World of Warcraft, and Big Trouble in Little China. Those rate from 2.0 to about 2.93.
Interesting topic, Alex. I was a console gamer (mostly Xbox) and played a considerable amount of RPG games, but my line of professional requires me to constantly look at the computer screen all day long, and somehow I got the idea of board-gaming and pursued relentlessly afterwards. My first games were Eldritch Horror and Scythe and I love them both; it took me a while to figure out how things work (it wasn't a smooth sailing), but eventually, I am glad that I found this hobby. Surprisingly, I really love solo board-gaming (mostly co-op games; generally I prefer 2.5 to 3 hours session) more than anything else (it is like therapeutic sessions) for me, but Iike you said it is not for everyone.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 Thanks for the suggestion. I heard about it and watched a few playthrough videos; it is well-received in the solo-gaming community and definitely on my wish list :).
Have you played villagers? I think it has a little too much for beginners but once you get the hang of it, it's a fantastic tableau builder with just enough stealing / using other people's cards. And the art is just lovely.
I like the idea of an underrated games list. I suppose we all feel passionate about the games we have brought into our collection and I keep trying to talk up or recommend Abomination: Heir of Frankenstein. But if it doesn’t make that list, it better make the top 10 themed games you will do one day.
Five Tribes was my groups next step after Sushi Go. It was intimidating, and the first game took a bit longer than I'd like (4 player game didn't help). But I wouldn't trade it for the world!
Thank you for the video I’m a new fan and sorta new to table top, my first game was axis and allies them I made the jump straight to twilight emperium it’s amazing. I was wondering if I’m your own way could tell the noobs the difference between the many types of games? Thanks
Absolutely this, a semi-comprehensive noob-friendly list of genres and wieghts. I'm heavy into mini games(miniatures are plastic crack), but not much else
Absolutely this, a semi-comprehensive noob-friendly list of genres and wieghts. I'm heavy into mini games(miniatures are plastic crack), but not much else
So your rating for good is Most Excellent? Might I suggest Harshly Bogus for terrible games. (I come from a most excellent generation in which those phrases were used but have bogusly passed out of usage.)
@@BoardGameCo I don't think you move too fast. Your speed is just right. You cover a lot of material in a logical manner by yourself on camera. In my humble opinion, you get everything just right & you have pointed me in some different but good directions.
I think every vid, your slowly and slowly getting me interested in Zombicide. Personally I am a fan of the Zombie genre, but the game group I play with is not really fans of it, and would sooner pick something else to play. That is the only reason I am holding back on getting it.
Listening to your video while I do work. I thought you said "people like sex" when you were talking about sets with the Valeria games. It instantly made me jump back to the computer to see what was going on.
@@BoardGameCo we play the classics, century, azul, ticket to ride but sometimes we want more meaty games and found some gems like Orleans and champions of midgar (this one need a little bit help)
Surprised to not see Pandemic here. I know some consider this a gateway game but it's really not. I tried to teach this to people who only played roll and move games or rummy and it was too much every time. As a next step though it is very good.
Have you played Green Horde? What's your thoughts on it? I've a friend who I can buy it from with it's extra expansion but I am debating getting black plauge instead. Never played any of them but have borrowed his black plague to see if I like the mechanics 😃
i my self like stepup or next step games a lot. you get the learncurve feel out of it. even better if a game has that in the box. like a introductarary game or a learning game before the full game. for some games its easyer to scale complexity then others. for example the game GO for beginners you let them play on a smaller board to limit the options and limit the annalisis paralisis. as players get more into the game you can always increase the size of the bord. for me i actualy like a smaller than full size board becous its a bit faster to play. somtimes its homebrewing rules to make a ''teaching'' game. or ignoring a chunk of the rules becous of the teaching game.. dont know examples on demand. but i know i have done it in the past. i demo a lot on conventions (not this year.) and yea you pick up a few ways to explain dificult games.
I would agree with Everdell and my own steps went with Isle of cats, Castles of Burgundy, Terraforming Mars, Marvel champions and Viticulture. To be honest we still don't play things that have a weight > 4 on bgg. Not sure we ever will as I am not sure I ever feel like doing something so crunchy. A feast for Odin is the highest weight game I would like to purchase.
Not everyone likes the super crunchy games. It's just not everyone's idea of fun and that is more than ok! (Personally I love the 4.5 weight games, but am hyper aware that most people don't, really)
Alex, which Zombicide should I get...I like the theme on invader and also the new reprint of modern. IV never played? Most people recommend the titles but I don’t like the themes as much with the fantasy setting... Thanks in advance.
BoardGameCo Hahah I knew you would say that..most of my research has brought me to the same conclusion. My only hang up is that I think a Sci Fi/ Modern would go over better with my gaming group. I have some hard choices to make lol...thanks for your input tho!
Good video.
I recommend doing a series that is an offshoot.
In this series, you start with a good game, a starter or common ... and then go specifically for next steps for that game:
Catan - Next Steps
Spice Road - Next Steps
Carcassanne - Next Steps
Just address different games a person who likes each might look to next.
This is a great idea. If you loved Catan, or Carcassonne, what would be the next step game that expands on those mechanics.
Although with Carcassonne, there are a few expansions. :)
Great idea!
May I suggest a tweet, focus on a major game mechanism (like Worker Placement, Area Majority, Deduction, Card Drafting, etc) or game category (like Civilization, Economic, Fantasy, War, etc) and tell us the “Up Your Game” (I think would be a good title for the segment, LOL) tips for each from gateway all the up to really complicated heavy games.
Pretty much the same idea but has the benefits of using a classic game mechanic instead of a game that maybe someone hasn’t heard of. For example, I know nothing about Spice Road as a game (just looked it up now on BGG to get a clue), so that means nothing to me, but using it as a good gateway example of an Economic game or Engine Builder and moving up to medium and heavy weight recommendations is more interesting to me plus I learn more about the mechanic or category to see if that’s something I want to explore that I might have overlooked.
Another advantage is that it teaches viewers about popular game mechanics and categories. In general, I like the suggestion (either way you want to go about it) as it has something for everyone, no matter where they are on the gaming spectrum.
@@Elvite the specific reason to base it off a game and not a mechanic is that more people search youtube for a game rather than mechanic.
Alex is also mainly in the business of people trading used games. So this gives his business a boost because he can help people go from a lower tier to a higher one that would better fit them today.
I know based on some videos for kickstarter projects I've found other similar games that I've both picked up and avoided based on his comments.
P.S. ... starting with a game, then including the mechanics and setting and such as other keywords would help, but starting narrow and expanding.
I did read a "beyond Catan" article once that took different aspects of Catan and talked about a low weight and then heavy weight game or three for each aspect ... so I've seen this at a core and can see the synergies with @BoardGameCo
Good idea, I would love to know what is a next step for a Catan :D!
This is a nice video, you typically only hear folks talk about gateway games or medium to heavy games, not the in between 🙂
Yep, viewer suggested :) I didn't even think of it.
I agree. Plus, some gamers never get passed the “Next Step” level of board games, even though they absolutely love board games. I try to mostly look for game BGG weighted no more than 3.5 (unless they have a good solo option), mostly trying to favor less than 3’s as some of the people I play with really don’t like heavy games. Lists like this are always helpful.
I mean wouldn't most of these "next step" games rating around 2.5 or so be considered "medium" games? I mean really what is a "medium game"? If a "get them to the table" game like Camel up is 1.48. Wouldn't a "medium" game be maybe 2.0 - 3.0? Then Heavy 3.0 and above?
fantastic choice of subject.
highly recommend,request you do a part II (next ten next step games)
Sure :) I've had enough good options suggested :)
Good video. Maybe adding an image of the game setup as well (even if it’s taken from the net) just to show what the in game experience looks like.
I hope to improve on some of that stuff over time :) for right now it's hard to keep up with my other responsibilities
At the moment, my wife and I are at that next level step in our boardgaming hobby. We are currently loving: Raiders Of The North Sea, Wingspan, Everdell, Rajas Of The Ganges and Orleans. And I´m realy looking foreward to Lost Ruins of Arnak.
I’ve got to say... you’re definitely the content creator with the most momentum, and the best content at this time. Keep it up!
Hey thank you for following up on my question and making this video!!!!! I've been waiting for this one :)
:) It was a good idea :-)
Love your content thanks again! As someone not as seasoned to the hobby it helps that you have a ton of different content!
So YOU'RE the one! I had requested that Alex share his #11 to 20 in this category. At least I got to see #11. After that I...sort of lost interest 😜
I have found that Bus, Everdell, and Nemesis work well as "Next step" games depending on the person. (Bus for thinky strategy people, Everdell for less intense strategy people, and Nemesis for experience/fun people)
My typical next level is Lords of Waterdeep. It isn't too weighty, is a stealth Euro-style game, where the workers are fighters, clerics, rogues and wizards, and it is set in the D&D universe. It plays well at 2, but is better with 3 or 4.
Roll for the Galaxy is a nice fast moving multiplayer, and adding players doesn't slow the game down. Roll is a bit easier to teach to new players than Race, because in Race cards are everything, the dice provide a separation. I have had good luck with Wingspan and The Crew - Quest for Planet Nine ( which is also great as a travel game ).
Don't rule out solo or group board gaming on PC, I tend to go for the purpose made games. Dire Wolf has great versions of both Sagrada and Root. Playdek has very good versions of Lords of Waterdeep and Twilight Struggle. You can find things at every game length and weight. Roll for the Galaxy and Race for the Galaxy both have good PC ports from Temple Gates Games ( I still haven't played Shards of Infinity from them ). Handelabra Games has a good port of Spirit Island and Aeon's End. There are also the game engines like Tabletop Simulator, or Tabletopia.
A PC version of a board game and Discord can be a nice way to "spend some time with family" even when you can't, regardless of the reasons.
Hey Alex, here’s a suggestion for the editing averse person you are (😜) for when you talk about games you physically have present. You always do a great job showing the front cover of each box, however, I recommend you flip the box over to the back cover and push it up towards the camera once you start talking about that game. It’ll give us a good look at the game board and components and is much more informative than the front cover is. I usually find myself always having BGG up whenever you talk about these games so I can see what the game looks like and I think if you had the back cover nicely visible that would help inform viewers while you talk and keep us from getting distracted by BGG. Of course you probably can’t push the back cover of the box too far forward to the point your camera has focusing problems between you and the box, but you have such a nice camera I bet you can get it fairly close and not have focusing issues. Experiment a little. Thanks! Love your commentary!!!!
I'll give it a shot here in there and see how it goes :)
That's a good suggestion. It's an issue board game commentary and live streams really struggle with. Video games and movies can just throw up clips from gameplay or trailers when they are talking - real easy. But board games are so physical that capturing the art, components, etc. from every angle almost takes an expert in cameras, lighting, and video editing - and a whole lot of time!
This kind of content is excellent. I've been easing my wife into the hobby by getting gateway games with different mechanics so she discovers what she likes and I found out that she likes games with "screwage" possibilities haha. I got Agricola Family Edition and she loves it for 2 reasons: 1) she loves the farming theme 2) she loves blocking me whenever it's possible. She is ruthless! And I think that couldn't have happened if she haven't played other games first. So, thanks for this list! Now I'm looking at Parks
Anytime! There will likely be another one of these soon, had a lot of good ideas in the comments as well as more that I would have loved to add.
This is a great topic! I’ve been on the fence about Istanbul because I played the base game and loved it but I agree with you it is a little too simple after a few rounds. Hearing that the Mocha and Baksheesh expansion elevates that to a “next step” game has convinced me to pick it up for myself :)
BTW I really like where you’re filming 👍🏻
Yep, istanbul I always enjoyed but the extra things to balance from mocha really pushed it from liking to loving for me. Plus coffee of course.
Thank you for you kind words about our game. Now you should try Estoril 1942 Super box (full expansions and promo cards).
Of course! I do indeed have the super box, I hope to review it soon :)
I think one video I would be interested in is the second hand kickstarters. Which games already out are worth the purchase.
So, for buzzwords I was taking a shot every time you said "phenomenal" but booze was costing me more than board games...lol. I love that word so I couldn't help but notice when you said it.
I also go for excellent :)
Just wanna say that this is the best board game content on TH-cam. I really appreciate your channel.
You cut Concordia from this list. Unbelievable. We're in a fight until you release the next video.
I totally agree with you for what it's worth. Concordia is absolutely amazing :)
@@BoardGameCo Concordia is amazing, and better than all of the games on this list :)
I've been waiting for a list like this! Thank you!
Could you do more b roll of these games as you talk about them? I don't know most of these games and I'd love to see what's inside the box
This is a great topic. I’ve watched a few of your videos, but this one got me to hit the subscribe button.
Glad to have you on board :)
I think Wingspan was a good intermediate game to bring to the table!
Oh for sure, it's an excellent next step game as well.
Sure, I’ll try making a list. I, too, will choose 11:
Isle of Cats
Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition
Clank
Junk Art
Search for Planet X
Mystic Vale
Raiders of the North Sea
Sub Terra
Wiz War
Isle of Skye
Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective
" 'dilectable' can I use that? I don't think so... " 😂️😂️ thanks for the great content
Never played Bunny Kingdom before, but I think it's great that you stand your ground!
I try :)
Great job.. same vain my shout outs would be , skulk hollow, escape from the aliens in outer space , roam, galaxy trucker , dead of winter.. cause these blew so many into my groups..
Nice 🙂
I always find Architects of the West Kingdom, Champions of Midgard, Raiders of the North Sea and Le Havre always seams to go over well with next level gamers. And yes my wife moved from gateway to next level with Concordia and Power Grid.
Those are all excellent choices. The only one I would debate is Le Havre. But the raiders series in general is an excellent next step.
Alex, I usually will continue watching a video after a mid-video ad appears, but if a 2nd one comes on that's it and I'm done. There's money to be made, so I get it. I have no problem with the pre-video ads, but the mid-vid ad are disruptive.
Steve, that's fine. I put 1 midroll per 10 minutes of content. It's going to stay that way across the board. It's both about paying myself for my time (as much as I can) and also about the TH-cam algorithm. Totally get it if that doesn't work for you but that's going to be a channel staple in general.
Two game series I never see you talk about, but we love in our house, are Empires of the North (a big improvement on Imperial Settlers), and the West Kingdom games. Paladins is getting an expansion, Viscounts should be out soon, and The West Kingdom Tomesaga to turn the three games into a campaign. Also not sure where Watergate would fall in, but I love it too.
I debated watergate for this list :) empires of the north is on my shelf unplayed, the west kingdom series in general I've always enjoyed but never loved.
Great list! Convinced me of unwrapping Glen More II which was staring at me from the shelf while you were talking ;) Will introduce it to my group. They are ready! Like the channel. Subscribed!
Thanks! And glen more is a lot of fun.
Of those games in my collection, Alchemists and Clank have been good next level games.
They have the essense of a game that is a bit hard to learn, but becomes very intuitive while playing, which i think helps to deal with "fear of rulebooks"
Clank is am excellent choice! I'd be worried alchemists is too much because of how much it's trying to do.
@@BoardGameCo yeah alchemists is much more complex, i usually dont explain all actions at once. Selling 2nd round, publishing 3rd round, end game 4th round
Its definitely not the first next level game i would play, but a great entry to more complex games
BGG's "Weight" rating system is completely skewed. Mainly because the people that write the reviews are seriously invested in games. Medium weight games can reasonably be rated as 2 to 2.5, although the scale goes from 1-5, so what I can infer is that long time enthusiasts sort of lose track of the fact that a game like Wingspan is light, but not gateway.
Wingspan is a good next step game though.
Totally hear, if you use it comparatively, it should still help though.
Nice job on the lighting! Dunno if you changed anything but this one is definitely much softer than what I remember. Makes you look great! :D
Thanks! Better camera, recording and all around lighting.
Nice list. Many fine choices ... and for the record I agree on the timer in Chinatown as it does add the element of urgency and not mathing it all out.
I am a huge Clans of Caledonia fan and one that I believe qualifies as a "Next Step" game. Brings in some new mechanics to build on from gateway games. Pretty easy to teach and will have a nice familiar feel from that gateway game.
Good to know. I have clans on my shelf but haven't gotten it to the table yet.
@@BoardGameCo What do you guys recommend as a good time limit for Chinatown?
Mr. Burns (The Simpsons) has already mastered the saying of the word "excellent."
Excellent ;)
Personally I generally think games with a BGG weight of below 2 are gateway games. Your five suggested gateway games are all below this weight. I would say "Next Games" broadly have a weight of 2 to 2.5. Anything above that would most likely be too much of a jump for newbies looking for the next step up.
Therefore out of your games I might include Istanbul at 2.58, possibly City of Spies at 2.52 (although do not know it myself), Bunny Kingdom, Chinatown, Tak (again I do not know them), Parks, and Zombicide Black Plague, and Cthulhu: Death May Die.
Just picked up Forgotten Waters a couple days ago. I think this hits this category perfectly. A semi-coop with easy rules, a touch of screwage and huge amounts of story and theme to keep everyone engaged. I think its going to be a great way to lead people down the rabbit hole.... ;)
Excellent video, these games are all in my wishlist now :)
I'd like to suggest also Blood rage, Seasons and Lords of Xidit, which all has been loved by mid-to-new players in my group
The best one has been Zombicide for sure!
Blood rage I wanted to add...but it can be brutal if players are inexperienced.
@@BoardGameCo yeah, we found out that by removing the (important i know) draft phase and give random cards instead for the first matches, the situation remained a bit more balanced
Seasons was the first game my wife and I got into that started us down our board game journey. Good suggestion to the list.
Wonderful video. Very well thought out and explained. Thanks!
Thanks!
loved the video! you did already gateway games and here are next step games, I would love to hear a list of your favorite gamer games (the heavy ones) next.
Games like Glen More 2, Istanbul and Everdell are all great candidates for further bringing folks into the hobby, past the gateway games. I would also suggest Raiders of the North Sea/Scythia, Architects of the West Kingdom, Viticulture and Roll Player as some titles that fit this "next step" mold.
Viticulture I haven't played, but completely agreed on the rest.
@@BoardGameCo i think base Viticulture is easy to follow and then adding modules adds complexity. Really most Stonemaier games could be on that list
Res Arcana for sure. The iconography is very straightforward, there's only a couple cards and places of power that need a little more explaining, and the fact that you're just doing one action per turn keeps people from feeling overwhelmed. The game is also short enough that once the kinks of the first playthrough have been worked out it's very easy to suggest that "one more game", which is something I think is very important for newer gamers. Plus there's the four "beginner" Mage/Card setups that are highly functional and super easy to learn.
It's also a gorgeous game. The amount of detail in the card artwork is astonishing, and the fantasy theme is tastefully done. Great, highly functional insert too.
Res is an excellent choice, I need to play it more but I totally agree
Great choices, though I find Zombicide far too Alpha gamer prone. The way a game looks and its component quality is something im finding more important the deeper I get into this hobby. Rajas of the Ganges is a game that doesn't get enough love in this game weight category in my opinion.
Rajas is an excellent choice!
i forget who it was, but i had seen a TH-cam video calling them foundation games, rather than gateway games, because they can be replayed and revisited even after you grow.
Some good next step games;
Big Book of Madness for a co-op
Descent or Massive Darkness for a campaign style dungeon crawler
Colt Express for a light competitive
Core Worlds for a heavy competitive
That's an excellent title, I love the idea of them being Foundations. Unlike many gateways, I see these staying for a long time.
Think it was 3 Minute Boardgames who retitled to foundation games.
Istanbul actually has a big box with a very fair price. Sounds to me like it's and excellent option to have; gateway game that you can scale up when you you want to.
Yep :) I plan on looking into that one.
thank youfor the list. this kind of list is not made as often as the gateway variant.
Yep, It was a viewer idea, and a good one at that :)
Your videos are interesting and refreshing. You seem to be able to find those subjects not often if not at all covered in other boardgame channels.
Undaunted: Normandy is light enough to be a next step game for those who enjoy tactical decisions and grinding each other into the dirty. It's also quite attractive.
Undaunted is an excellent choice, I'd probably recommend war chest first but both are great.
Clank worked well for my friends :D
Clank is an excellent choice for this category!
Agreed!
Estoril 1942 is a wonderful game, try it. Best Portuguese game ever. The story behind it is very interesting. Spies in Portugal during WWII, not a subject that too much spoken of, but it was the main place for spies . I love it, there is a big box with some expansions also. MEBO GAMES
It's soooo good :)
Excellent video! On your advice, I purchased Cthulhu Death May Die, and am loving it! It provides an incredibly cinematic, chaotic experience both solo and cooperatively.
I would love to see a video that compares all of the Zombicide games. I want to follow your advice again and get Black Plague, but the sci-fi element of Invader appeals to me more (although the characters don't at all).
I'd love to do that video, the problem is I played black plague the most and barely any of the others, so until I play the others more I'm not well equipped to compare.
@@BoardGameCo Ah, thanks for the info!
For our group it was power grid. It was an easy game to teach and I got to give everyone little jobs. You can be the bank, you can adjust player order and keep track of the building and I did the market admin.
Everyone grasped the strategy of the game after the first play through and instantly demanded a rematch
Nice video! I’ve tried to be tactical when introducing new people to games; I try and start with a simple version of the mechanic we are shooting for and build from that. For example I want to teach Spirit Island- so I started with Pandemic (to teach co-op play) and Star Realms (to teach basics of deckbuilding and combos)
Thanks for the video. Very entertaining and nice selection!
Anytime :-)
Love love love Five Tribes. :)
It's excellent 😊
I had no idea there was a 'next level'' level of board games. I thought these were 'medium'. This kind of destroyed my view of myself as a board gamer. Most of my games that I currently enjoy fall into 'next level'. I thought I was farther along on the journey.
So what games would be considered 'medium' level then?
By the way, I bought City of Spies thanks to your recommendation! Someone in the comments on one of your previous videos said there existed a "super box" version. Well since I always have to own the pimped-out, deluxe version of any board game (like that Everdell Collectors Edition you have there - don't want to pay $90 though), I did some searching and it is nowhere to be found in the US, so I purchased it from an online store in France! It arrives Friday. Shipping wasn't as bad as I was expecting.
Oh don't get me wrong, these are all excellent games I'd be happy to play anytime. But if I were classifying weight I'd prob have 4 categories. Gateway, next level, strategic, brain burner.
Medium might be Castell, Scythe, Viticulture with the Tuscany expansion, Terraforming Mars, Bus...just some from my collection I can think of. If you look on BGG the ~2.5-3.5 weight rating can be a good guide (BGG weight should be taken with a grain of salt, Though)
Johnathan Rhoades well I have viticulture with the Tuscany expansion so that’s good to know
I actually think Parks is the only "next step" game on this list. All others I would consider next next step.
Kudos for pitching Tak. Well done sir.
It's an amazing game :)
Bunny Kingdom is an amazing game and probably does belong on this list (it would probably be on mine). I have noticed with gamers early in their journey they can sometimes get lose in the math (as simple as it is)
26:38 - Subtle Jesse impression. Almost missed it. 😂😂😂
Quacks of Quedlinburg, Pandemic, Horrified and Wingspan. Thanks for the fun video.
Anytime :) All those games are great, I own all of them. Some I'd think more of as gateway, but potato, potato :)
Concordia for sure. You have to guide them with their first few turns so they can build a basic engine and then theyre good.
Concordia is great, there's a reason it only just missed the list.
Great list! Some of these are my favorite games, in particular Everdell (Which I just discovered) and City of Spies (which I've had for years), Zombicide Black Plague, are some of my favorites. Next step games I really like that aren't on your list are Oceans, Castles of Burgundy (though arguably this may not be in this category). I'm thinking that Edge of Darkness should be on the list (I haven't played it yet) as its kind of the next step beyond Mystic Vale, which is a great gateway game.
My personal next step are to just look for personal favorites that rate lower than 3.00 weight on BGG. Those games happen to be Mansions of Madness, Small World of Warcraft, and Big Trouble in Little China. Those rate from 2.0 to about 2.93.
City of Spies looks like the perfect game for our group. Dont know how I missed this game :-O thx!!!
Interesting topic, Alex. I was a console gamer (mostly Xbox) and played a considerable amount of RPG games, but my line of professional requires me to constantly look at the computer screen all day long, and somehow I got the idea of board-gaming and pursued relentlessly afterwards. My first games were Eldritch Horror and Scythe and I love them both; it took me a while to figure out how things work (it wasn't a smooth sailing), but eventually, I am glad that I found this hobby. Surprisingly, I really love solo board-gaming (mostly co-op games; generally I prefer 2.5 to 3 hours session) more than anything else (it is like therapeutic sessions) for me, but Iike you said it is not for everyone.
If you love solo gaming, have you tried Mage Knight? It's definitely my favorite solo...
@@johnathanrhoades7751 Thanks for the suggestion. I heard about it and watched a few playthrough videos; it is well-received in the solo-gaming community and definitely on my wish list :).
Agree with another commenter on Isle of Cats, and Terraforming Mars. I’d add Wingspan, Grand Austria Hotel, Clank Legacy, Champions of Midgard.
Played all and all good choices. I'd possibly debate grand austria as being a level higher.
Love everdell
Have you played villagers?
I think it has a little too much for beginners but once you get the hang of it, it's a fantastic tableau builder with just enough stealing / using other people's cards.
And the art is just lovely.
On my list to get my hands on a copy :)
@@BoardGameCo - it's great. I actually also really like the solo play against the countess. (just giving you more reasons to look into it)
"What's next?"
Me: MAGE KNIGHT!
Lol good choice.
I say throw them into Advanced Squad Lead with a single clip of ammo, half a pack of rations, and no shoes, and let em at it.
I like the idea of an underrated games list. I suppose we all feel passionate about the games we have brought into our collection and I keep trying to talk up or recommend Abomination: Heir of Frankenstein. But if it doesn’t make that list, it better make the top 10 themed games you will do one day.
Would have liked to have pictures of each game on the table... but a good list!
Yep, I eventually will add broll.and more game footage but for right now I sadly don't have time for that kind of extra work and editing each video.
Five Tribes is know for AP. I am curious how AP is handled by a new player going into a next step.
Good point. Gameplay is good for next step but it is very ap prone.
Five Tribes was my groups next step after Sushi Go. It was intimidating, and the first game took a bit longer than I'd like (4 player game didn't help). But I wouldn't trade it for the world!
Thank you for the video I’m a new fan and sorta new to table top, my first game was axis and allies them I made the jump straight to twilight emperium it’s amazing. I was wondering if I’m your own way could tell the noobs the difference between the many types of games? Thanks
Absolutely this, a semi-comprehensive noob-friendly list of genres and wieghts. I'm heavy into mini games(miniatures are plastic crack), but not much else
Absolutely this, a semi-comprehensive noob-friendly list of genres and wieghts. I'm heavy into mini games(miniatures are plastic crack), but not much else
So your rating for good is Most Excellent? Might I suggest Harshly Bogus for terrible games. (I come from a most excellent generation in which those phrases were used but have bogusly passed out of usage.)
Most excellent is likely just the price of me moving too fast :)
@@BoardGameCo I don't think you move too fast. Your speed is just right. You cover a lot of material in a logical manner by yourself on camera. In my humble opinion, you get everything just right & you have pointed me in some different but good directions.
I think every vid, your slowly and slowly getting me interested in Zombicide. Personally I am a fan of the Zombie genre, but the game group I play with is not really fans of it, and would sooner pick something else to play. That is the only reason I am holding back on getting it.
Do it..... ;)
Listening to your video while I do work. I thought you said "people like sex" when you were talking about sets with the Valeria games. It instantly made me jump back to the computer to see what was going on.
I would love a list for getting into next step after this. A gateway of getting into harder than these games. :-)
Good list. I would have added wingspan
Wingspan could be a great choice as well, for myself I prefer Everdell but the two are comparable.
Thanks Alex! I always knew I had great taste.
Lol thanks
As a 2-player game I would probably choose Santorini or Onitama even if I also have Tak in my collection.
I would argue both of those as more gateway but both great choices.
@@BoardGameCo yeah, you are probably right.
If you want to step it up a bit maybe Yinsh, Tzaar, Lyngk (whichever you prefer) or maybe War Chest?
You should do a top 10 language independent games. Would love to have a great list so I can play more games with my wife.
That's a great idea! Adding to my list.
I second that
@@BoardGameCo we play the classics, century, azul, ticket to ride but sometimes we want more meaty games and found some gems like Orleans and champions of midgar (this one need a little bit help)
Surprised to not see Pandemic here. I know some consider this a gateway game but it's really not. I tried to teach this to people who only played roll and move games or rummy and it was too much every time. As a next step though it is very good.
Totally hear. Everyone's gateway and everyone's next up will be different for sure.
Nice choices Alex. I suggest Abyss and Seasons.
Seasons is a great choice! Abyss I haven't played yet
@@BoardGameCo buy a copy of Abyss and play it. you will love it and then you will buy the expansions and then will buy the gamemat :P
Have you played Green Horde? What's your thoughts on it? I've a friend who I can buy it from with it's extra expansion but I am debating getting black plauge instead. Never played any of them but have borrowed his black plague to see if I like the mechanics 😃
I prefer black plague so far, same game but less fiddly.
Good list thanks a lot man!!!
Anytime :)
what is your opinion about heavens and ale? is it gateway game?
Never played it sorry :(
i my self like stepup or next step games a lot. you get the learncurve feel out of it. even better if a game has that in the box. like a introductarary game or a learning game before the full game.
for some games its easyer to scale complexity then others. for example the game GO for beginners you let them play on a smaller board to limit the options and limit the annalisis paralisis. as players get more into the game you can always increase the size of the bord. for me i actualy like a smaller than full size board becous its a bit faster to play.
somtimes its homebrewing rules to make a ''teaching'' game. or ignoring a chunk of the rules becous of the teaching game.. dont know examples on demand. but i know i have done it in the past.
i demo a lot on conventions (not this year.) and yea you pick up a few ways to explain dificult games.
Firenze, Palaces of Carrara, Heaven & Ale and Calimala are clear omissions here...
I would agree with Everdell and my own steps went with Isle of cats, Castles of Burgundy, Terraforming Mars, Marvel champions and Viticulture.
To be honest we still don't play things that have a weight > 4 on bgg. Not sure we ever will as I am not sure I ever feel like doing something so crunchy. A feast for Odin is the highest weight game I would like to purchase.
Not everyone likes the super crunchy games. It's just not everyone's idea of fun and that is more than ok! (Personally I love the 4.5 weight games, but am hyper aware that most people don't, really)
Alex, which Zombicide should I get...I like the theme on invader and also the new reprint of modern. IV never played? Most people recommend the titles but I don’t like the themes as much with the fantasy setting... Thanks in advance.
For myself I recommend black plague.
BoardGameCo Hahah I knew you would say that..most of my research has brought me to the same conclusion. My only hang up is that I think a Sci Fi/ Modern would go over better with my gaming group. I have some hard choices to make lol...thanks for your input tho!
Hmm Endeavour, Kemit, Concordia, Clank, Architects of the West Kingdom, War Chest.
Thanks for the nice video! How about the expansions of City of Spies? Are they worthy?
I like the expansion, I don't feel it's essential but I do enjoy it.
Stone Age, Ra, DVONN, The Quest for El Dorado...
I expected some singing, and got dissapointed... :-D
Oh man, quest for el dorado is a great choice! And singing shall return :)
I'd say Inis could be considered a next step game
Aeon's End for DBG? A little bit difficulty but gamers can learn from the failure and may wanna try it one more time.
Maybe Arcadia Quest, fun and quick game
I never fell in love with the arcadia quest series but I know I'm in the minority on that one.
Blood rage!
Love that game :)
Hey Alex where do i see what games would be eligible for your patron insurance this has me intrigued but i couldn't find where to see that
So far it's massive darkness and nemesis. Only been doing the patron for two months.
Also have you played Direwild? I saw it for sale on your store website if you have played what did you think of it?
On my shelf but unplayed.
Wait do you have a gateway game list??
Love all of your videos!
Not yet :) eventually.