I heard you speak of "issues" with Charis weeks ago and I was deeply affected. I adore you and Andrew Wommack both. I have supported him financially for twenty four years and have my friends doing so in very significant amounts financially. I was able to easily listen nightly for years until they changed the website into two very difficult websites approximately four years ago. So I went from watching almost every night to not watching due to the change in their website. I have greatly missed the shows! My grown daughter had been prayed over successfully about three years ago. Last week she went with her son and a gentleman who needed to see the love here as he is a new christian and respected our love of Charis and Andrew Wommack. My daughter was dumbfounded by what occurred. It was as if the speaker was trying to feed their ego and literally calling out certain diseases, to show she knew the particular illness! My daughter said it was like another world she stepped in to! There was also no one praying for the people as there used to be on Wednesday afternoon. The gentleman with her was carrying an ill child and cameras were literally put in his face! I can not tell you how disappointed and astonished she was. She suggested I call and tell someone. I told her I knew things were wrong as I had heard Debra McDermott distance herself from him. I love both and am praying that Andrew will see what is going on and resolve the issues. Please get the speakers with egos out of there immediately. There are many hurting people and Andrew was always sincerely trying to help them putting God first. God please help Charis and give Deborah peace in all she does. I pray and demand the enemy get his hands off anything trying to hurt Andrew Wommack or Deborah! I know he is a good man. I pray blessing over Deborah as she is an exceptional loving, wonderful woman also intent on helping people!
Hello Deborah and family! Thank you for sharing your experience and speaking up. My heart is grieved that you guys experienced all this. My family and i experienced very similar abuse at a former church many years ago. Your story sounds very, very familiar. From what you shared, you don't sound like a complainer. Merely a concerned mother, classmate, and beliver who honed in on things that were not right. I am so sorry you have experienced this gaslighting and cancellation. I pray for peace and comfort and further healing for all of you guys. Your family testimony has been a big comfort and blessing to many of us who are still believing for wholeness for our kiddos on the spectrum. Blessings to you and your household 🙏
This video is incredibly helpful and insightful. The level of detail and explanation takes it from opinion to analysis and is a very useful resource for anyone experiencing similar concerns. I found this incredibly helpful for me and what I am also starting to see elsewhere. Daring to believe the unspeakable is a very brave place to go, especially in Christian circles where condemnation is an effective silencer. The watchman analogy is very well spoken of too and a challenge to all of us who find themselves in a similar place Thank you 🙏
Thank you Deborah for sharing! Your testimony blessed my life years ago. Over the years, I been turned off from certain ministries that I followed . Last of these was Charis . I couldn’t understand except that I believed it was the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So seeing this actually confirmed these things. It also reminded me to hear and obey the Holy Spirit. I still believe in healing and my faith continues to strengthen. I appreciate your courage and honesty. God Bless you and your family.
I've been increasingly feeling the celebrity atmosphere when they have conferences. Given the collapse of IHOP, it's necessary to speak about these things. Thank you for speaking out. I always loved your teaching and noticed when your healing journey wasn't included in a recent video about all the great interviews. Dang.
I am so disappointed how so-called godly people were treating you, your family and fellow students. I'm glad you got out on time and that you are safe now. I followed Andrew Wommack many years and know your family's story. This is evil, but God sees everything. Thank you for sharing and coming forward. It takes a lot.
Every Christian ministry should have an "ombudsman" one who knows the heart of the ministry, is paid by the ministry but is to be totally independent, so anyone can air a grievance and it will not be swept under the carpet in the name of protecting the ministry.
I listened to all your videos and wow. I never attended Charis, but I did attend a church tnat was closely associated with Charis and with every experience I had with them, i became more and more troubled. Much of it was things you've mentioned: if you're abused, it's your fault for being offended, if you're not healed, its your fault for having weak faith. As someone who was very involved in my church's online campus (where many Charis students found themselves) I was also extremely troubled by the America-worship that seemed ingrained in non-American members. It broke my heart to hear people outside America treat it like the promised land, when I KNOW God wanted to move in their country as well as mine. Your recommendations to make the culture more Christ-like were perfect. Honestly, great recommendations even for ministries who WEREN'T having issues. God bless you for speaking up. Jesus' kingdom is first for those hurt...the very people you're speaking up for. Not for the VIP's at the top. Of course there will be issues when you don't have the basics of the kingdom yet.
If it were just you, alone, affected by this situation, then sure, you could step back and say, "Father God help....help me." And just handled your situation between you and God. However, there were and are children involved, and other students, that changes the game.
Oh Deborah thank you..these videos were actually very healing for me. I am over in Australia but have been indirectly affected by this ministry too which caused me deep, deep distress and confusion about God and His Word. I lost a dear friend to cancer who was strictly following the You Have Already Got It course and was also trying to teach it to myself and others and she went off all her medical treatments but she then she just quickly went down hill with symptoms and eventually died. I was completely devastated and it has taken me a long time to recover from and accept her death and the pain of that loss was so deep that I could not go to that church anymore and see her not there - I moved to another church but still reeling from the deep pain of losing her and still deeply confused about healing - how to receive it etc. So yes I now have concerns about the attitude behind the way that course was being presented. I was personally deeply concerned about the wisdom of her just abandoning all her medical treatments, which from what I could see seemed to be working and so I wondered if God was using that medical treatment to bring her healing. However she was not just a friend - she was my Pastor's wife and in leadership herself so I felt unsure about challenging her decisions (to abandon her medical treatments). I know that there is not any direct teaching that says "don't use medical treatments" but there is definitely a subtle message that says "you are not in faith if you go to a doctor" simply by examples and I would assume that this is also being taught in the Bible College. I don't like bad mouthing anyone and try to really look for the good in everyone but there has been something just not sitting right in my spirit for a while about all of this experience, amongst other issues I have also observed along the way too; and yes it is not just about us personally, but about the deeply vulnerable and hurting who might reach out to this ministry but then be exploited or hurt even more deeply so this most definitely needs to be seriously addressed. Thank you too for sharing your amazing testimony about your 2 boys - it was so deeply encouraging as I have a similar issue going on with an adult daughter who has recently been diagnosed with autism/adhd. Are you able to maybe share your testimony again somewhere here on this channel? I would love to relisten to it again. God bless you and your lovely family richly
I have never heard a suggestion to not go to a doctor. I had stage four Merkel cancer, and it was a death sentence. What sustained me was filling myself with the word regarding healing and very importantly, resisting fear. I'm cancer free today due to the teachings of Andrew Womack, Kenneth Copeland, ministries, and numerous other word of Faith ministries. I did go to the doctor and had the tumor removed. I never felt a bit of shame about it or any shame accusations from them. But I am cancer free today due to the teachings of these ministries. you cannot put your faith on someone else's healing or non-healing. You do not know what goes on in their day-to-day life. Only that person and the Holy Spirit know. Also, because healing is a battle many times, if you know Jesus and love him, you may be tempted to say, just take me home, Jesus. But I did not do that because we were due to have our first grandchild. What I did find was the truth of 'death. Where is your victory grave where is your sting?' Do not look to any ministry to be perfect. Nor should your faith stand on their perfection or your friends healing.❤ PS-I did have 25 moderate radiation treatments. No chemo. Look up this cancer. It was a death sentence in 2013 especially at stage four.
@wannaduckfin I rejoice with you about your healing. Yes I know about that type of cancer. I am not against teaching about faith. Jesus praises faith all through Gospels. I am also not against any particular Word of Faith folk..Ive learnt lots from them myself over 24 years. I am however a bit concerned at SOME of the METHODS of teaching about faith and how some very vulnerable people can easily misunderstand what is being taught. I have personally heard Andrew W say he personally does not go to doctors - which is fine - Im just not sure why he needs to tell people this because people naturally follow leaders and so vulnerable people like my friend may misunderstand how God works. I also avoid doctors where possible but I still believe God uses them too..and not closed off to God possibly directing me to go there. So we can't put God in a one size fits all box - He definitely will use a doctor if it is part of His plan to bring healing to someone. I also learnt (the hard way) many years ago to never put my faith in a person or a formula but only place it in Jesus and the Word of God - I understand that deeply. I guess what I am just trying to say is that LEADERS do need to exercise in wisdom when teaching about faith and to watch carefully over the flock to protect them from other sometimes well-meaning Christians who don't actually understand what faith really is and of course to also protect them from wolves in sheep's clothing - they unfortunately do exist in many churches.
I'm sorry for your loss. Charis does NOT teach that people should stop treatment or meds. In fact, a couple of years ago one of their instructors, Barry Bennett, got cancer and he went through chemo and stuff and wommack supported him and says to do the treatment if that's where your faith is at. They teach that we HAVE to listen to Holy Spirit to know what to do as healing is not a formula. Mayne your Pastor's wife followed someone else's healing journey when it wasn't her own. We don't know what happened there but it does not negate the word of God. I am another that was healed of incurable illness by Jesus through Wommacks teachings.
@@colesonamission thanks for your reply. It may not be directly taught in Charis but Andrew W definitely HAS said in quite a few of his sermons (online) that he personally does not seek out doctors for healing. Yes that is his personal choice, but why even tell people that during his teachings or sermons when teaching about healing? People will look to him as a leader and an expert in healing and will want to follow his example, and Charis Bible College was founded by Andrew W. I also knew about Barry Bennett's journey with cancer too. That also confused me at the time because he was such an avid teacher of living a life of Divine health and even he did say that he does not know why he got sick. So anyway, I don't know what happened with my friend. I just know that she is in Glory now with Jesus and I will see her again. I have also since really changed my perspective about healing too. I understand that God does heal and people do get miraculously healed and rejoice with you that you are one them. I am just still on my journey with God about healing for now to try to understand His ways and the WHY that some people just do not receive healing so that it does not affect my relationship with God. I too did receive a miraculous healing for something over 20 years ago and that was from meditating on God's Word..so God's Word is true that His Word is like medicine. Thanks so much again for your reply. I really appreciate it and so thrilled that you have received miraculous healing too.
I feel every bit of what you’re saying. I only attended one year, and while there were many good lectures, I never felt peace. Something always felt off. You have illustrated it perfectly. Although it has not been a very good experience, I am blessed to have met some really amazing fellow students, and volunteers who are now great friends. So many people go to Charis broken, looking for healing, love and support. Some of us are sensitive and feeling, but that is shamed, and it hurts to be judged by insensitive instructors. The last thing we need is Harsh, dismissive treatment, and then being told to not be offended., and “take your thumb out of your mouth“, and “Pull up your big boy/big girl, pants”. I feel these comments are disrespectful and unnecessary, but they are frequently used in lectures at Charis. I was shocked when I first heard these comments. I was expecting to feel more kindness, and love than what feels like bullying. Thanks for having the courage to speak up. I’m hoping to see some repentance and right action.
They get that from Andrew, who commonly says those things. There's a reason why some of his employees called him Android Wommack; he's robotic with no real emotions. I, too, get turned off when he says things like "Pull your thumb out of your mouth and grow up!" It's very insensitive to what people are going through. And have you ever wondered why you never hear from his wife or sons? I think there are a lot of secrets behind closed doors that make them avoid the limelight.
I'm sure there must be some serious problems at the Bible College, but I think it's quite dangerous to be discussing it in this way on social media. I don't think any good can come of this. None of us are perfect, not that that gives anyone an excuse to treat others unkindly, but I'm just sure that all of this communucation and then speculation about other things that might be wrong, comments about Andrew Wommack, his family, making judgements on people's motives - this is all very dangerous. I just see it going down a dark hole. I'm so sorry that things have gone so badly and there hasn't been an opportunity for the injured parties to speak to those directly involved. I'll be praying that the Lord will make a way for things to be resolved in a wholesome manner. Social media has many benefits but it has a dark side too, and all of this discussion with so many people is more likely to lead to more hurt. I think the less people involved in the discussion the better. The enemy loves to turn believers against each other and will be happy to do as much damage as possible to the ministry. This is so terribly sad. Bible College isn't the right place for people who are still very broken and vulnerable.
@@WheelEstate There is a disturbing lack of empathy manifesting in the amount of victim blaming and shaming being actually tought from the very top! A light is being shone however. We’ll see.
God bless you Deborah. I could go on and on about some of these ministries that have gone off the rails with their doctrine of man and we see everyday the pitfalls and in some cases heir downfalls because of the cares, deceitfulness of riches and the lust of other things entering in choke the actual word of God and become untruthful, for love has no ill will toward thy neighbor. Yes, there should be structure in a church but not to the point of blind obedience to corruptible men and if Charis College leaders do not know this, then woes will befall them. As a steward of the faith, you have done the right thing every step of the way. 1 thess 5 22 tells us to abstain from ALL appearance of evil and by using this platform to warn people, you are fufilling this scripture as well as the others thst you spoke about in reference to your other videos. God bless you and your family, love from a brother in Christ.
Thank you so much Deborah. I know this can’t have been easy. I really hope they do pay attention. We’ve been followers and supporters of the ministry for years. We did the first year correspondence in the uk and were thinking of doing the second year at some point, but this will be put on hold until I hear there is some change. Our support may well be withdrawn too based on your testimony. If you could get anyone else to speak up it would help, I think. Would anyone come on your channel and share their experience? Xx
I can confirm everything Deborah says as I am a 3 rd year grad and saw it with my own eyes as well as did my husband, our children and many co-students . Any concerns raised were also shut down. When jezebel rules and reigns there has to be an Ahab that enables it.
@@cathyB3713 thank you. I do completely believe and I will pray and consider what to do next. I just mean for others sake and to bring them to account it would be helpful to have other testimonies. “In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses…” Deuteronomy 19:15/1 Corinthians 13:1
I can confirm that the current dean of students is a police officer. He is very prideful and he is actively hunting people who don't meet Charis' "standards". Other students that we have talked to have also been kicked out and he has played a role in that.
@@cathyB3713 ty for weighing in on this. Would you consider doing a quick video on your channel? Downloaded a couple of your playlists. Blessings to ya 🙏
@catherinemilici14 Wow. Sad thing. How is Jesus honored? You live in Woodland Park? I had at one point thought of attending Charis. Not now. Still dealing with Lyme disease symptoms but still believe in healing. Blessings to you 🙏
This is shocking 😕. Well done for being brave enough to speak out about your experience, and the experiences of other victims. It is so easy for controlling so-called 'Christians' (CINO's - Christian In Name Only) to manipulate those who truly want to follow Jesus, by using scripture out of context or by putting a certain spin on it in order to condemn and keep people controlled, especially new Christians. That's why it is SO important to know God's Word for ourselves, only then are we in a position to know when Scriptures are wrongly 'used' to deceive or control. May God bless you and heal you & your son, and everyone else who has been traumatised by CINO's in their Christian walk 🙏
But ultimately, isn't hierarchy necessary. There has to be structure and order and we have to come under authority. That's just part of life. Everyone can't be leading and making all the decisions. Not that that justifies any wrong behaviour.
@@ruth6110 Having systems, order and leadership is very different to putting people on pedestals, making certain individuals more important than others, giving leaders inordinate power to dictate to those they lead, and making leaders above accountability.
@@ruth6110 when you stop being more interested in “filming “ than you do actually being in ministry. Blind eyes are turned in order to become a world class production school. The main thing is no longer the main thing, unfortunately.
Any ministry or organization that grows as rapidly as Charis has, bears the hazards associated with exponential growth. Persecution came upon the early church because they were all staying in Jerusalem and not going into all the world to preach the Gospel. Small groups are really where its supposed to be. Once you get TOO BIG its hard to manage because all born again Christians are still in the flesh. That's why Jesus preached no condemnation, no judgement, and constant forgiveness. By this shall all men know you are MY disciples, if you have love for one another. Where envying and strife are, there is every evil work. Satan is at work to cause dissension. He is a wiley foe. He is constantly walking about, seeking WHOM he may devour.
I want to preface my comment with the fact that this is said gently, and with calm, not anger.I have been blessed tremendously and have recovered much of my life through Andrews teachings. For you to go out and say his ministry is a cult is a very serious accusation. Also, you are listening to someone who isn't even a Christian, who isn't born again, in the psychiatrist from what I could see about him he is Jewish and studied at a very secular university. Using many ungodly principles. Not saying you are wrong or right. I don't know you. However, My daughter attends Charis and works for Andrew and loves it. You are correct that perspective is everything. AWMI is a blessing. He is still a man and people make mistakes. I have seen way to many healings and the power of God to believe otherwise and I learned it from this ministry via the Holy Spirit.
Yes 100%. The devil is trying to bring down a ministry that is impacting the world. We have pastors who travel with Andrew and they are amazing Word based. Our church doesn’t even have membership because they feel it is unbiblical. Andrew encourages people to grow in the Word and walk in freedom. This ministry is the total opposite of a cult. This woman is so offended because she had certain expectations that weren’t met. Now she is slandering the ministry. There is no reason for her to post these “events” other than the fact that she wants revenge.
Are you speaking of current events or past events? What she is describing is witchcraft through others employed there in positions of authority and teaching. There is a problem. Your daughter may be unaware, deceived by the person or persons, or in a place of protection, separated from this attack. As a 72 year old Intercessor, I have witnessed similar events in other ministries, some now defunct because they would not listen to the alarms being sounded.
@@donnaleveron5711 amen! Fully aware and fully Alive! Jesus is awesome! Thanks for the comment. We all need to be reminded that it's Him living through us not us living for Him
Hello. I respect your pain and I hope you can be healed from this because after 3 years you still hurted about it. My testemony being last 2 years in Charis is I don't see any of these abuses, manipulations, etc. and I have being manipulated from leadership in my church in the past, I know what is it. One bad experience can not speak for all place and all people there. Not just Andrew but the insctructors have being a blessing for all of us there. Another thing about promotion of the people that hurted you. People can change, no one is perfect. Is not because the person did one mistake is condemned to do the same the rest of her life, they need to be forgiven. Charis is a blessed place, I am totally aware with ministries that manipulate people for my own experiences in many nations... Charis is not. People need to have their own experiences and will see that Charis is one of the most blessed places in the world. Let people discover by themselves if it is truth. There is no children going to study in Charis, why all this in internet? The Most of people I see today complaining about Charis has personal problems that is not about Charis, is about themselves and instead to try to be healed from their deceptions and frustrations they always find someone or something to blame. But this is all around the world. Christians change from church everytime because they found one thing they didn't like. So in the next church it happens the same. That is sad. And it is dangerous to read a book about manipulation and start to connect your pain with what you are feeding yourself and blame the whole place by you own thinking that is not the reality.
just because you did not see it or experience it does not means it is not there ; if you go through the comments there are many many that have seen like Deborah . Thankfully her son got free from it all !! As a person who has been manipulated yourself it is even more shocking that you can tell another person what happened to them is a lie
My CBC SA totally great experience. Haleluyah🙌🏽. Being born again doesnt mean being perfect we are all flesh and human. Sorry for your experiences. Lets not dim those like me that have only had great and warm experiences at AWM and CBC🙏🏽
"Being born again doesn't mean being perfect we are all flesh and human." - So should we excuse people of their actions, however heinous they are, because they are imperfect humans? A convenient argument for those who want to abdicate responsibility and accountability. "Lets not dim those like me that have only had great and warm experience at AWM and CBC." - Deborah isn't talking about you. Just because you had a good time doesn't mean it shouldn't be scrutinized when issues and abuses are brought to light.
@@MManAt56 Wud be great if her videos stop popping on my notifications, AWESOME AND WARM CBC is an understatement for my AWM CBC experience over the years Haleluyah👏🏽
@@ngomusacherncy8432 You can turn notifications off -- no one is forcing you to watch this. It's great that you had an awesome time at CBC, I'm not saying it isn't -- but it isn't an argument to invalidate other people's negative experiences.
19:28 “It’s very important that the victim get their act together here” lol the second time I listen through Carrie’s response to your son’s question, is really funny.
Dear Deborah! THANK YOU for sharing your concerns with us, your audience ❤. AWMI can definitely benefit and learn from some of the concerns that you mentioned. I was in the privileged position during my working career to manage a few incredibly wonderful employees as a manager, and I faltered often (and I learned so MUCH from my awesome colleagues about myself, their perspectives and my own limitations). My experience of AWMI is very positive. Andrews heart is pure and his teachings are anointed. Thank you, Jesus 😍! Are they w/o faults? No person or organization is perfect. We can ALWAYS learn and improve. What I appreciate about Andrew Wommack, is his love for the Word of God and his ability to explain the absolute Truth of God's Word in a practical and sound way. I am sorry for all your negative experiences with the management of AWMI, and pray that your love for God and his Word will sustain and carry you. The BEST is yet to come (Rev 21:1-6) ✝. Much love xxx
I don't know what, but I felt like Deborah. Wanted to say more, then was she saying she said a lot a mouthful? But I , myself and I just feel so this more, she had to say.
I had weird situation with Terradez ministries, they are REALLY close with Andrew. I commented on their videos about animal abuse they are committing on their videos. For example dragging crocodile by the leash while he has mouth wraped with tape. They blocked me :D
With all due respect I would probably block you too. They are busy trying to spread the Gospel and help change lives. They don’t have time to respond to people who just want to find fault. Who would???
@magdalebel6092 You are full of anger lady. If you don't stand up for the weak ones that speaks a lot about you. They are busy: WITH THEIR CELEBRITY STATUS. That is for sure :)
@@magdalebel6092 what a prideful response ! the gospel is about people , so blocking people is opposing the gospel . Typical prideful Charis response .I agree with the chasing of celebrity status Anna mentions in another comment. busy busy rubbing shoulders with all the big guns and no discernment as to what is the spirit behind many christian celebraties
@@annamachalska762perfectly articulated! That brings me to remembrance of when I wanted to buy their book, they asked if I wanted a bag which displayed their name. She said she was running out of bags but would give me one anyway because it was good advertisement for their stuff. I thought, huh? Seemed awfully strange at the time. Now it all makes sense!
Dear Deborah, my Sister in Christ Jesus, GOD Bless you and your family, for your Beautiful Compassionate Heart, in Sharing The TRUTH❤️🎚️🕊️in LOVE What you have Shared, i have been Seeing, for the last 4yrs. (the enemy has crept in unaware>Jude 4. it has been infiltrated💔😓) i Believe we must pray for Andrew and Jamie, for Father GOD to Show them, and Remind them, Deep to Deep in their heart, Whom and What was the Foundation and Motivation of "What" Charis was originally ALL About❤️ EVERYONE IS IN MY HEART AND PRAYERS ❤️🙏🎚️🕊️❤️
p.s. Through death (almost 9 1/2yrs ago), Jesus found me and led me to The Gospel Truth. i've been getting to Know Him, ever since; and continuing to❤️ Respectfully, in Truth and in Love, i haven't been able to watch awmi in a long time now, because of how fake they have gotten💔😓 (it's gotten so bad, that i was even led to stop Partnering :( It Truly is heartbreaking, for it used to be centered around The TRUTH❤️🎚️🕊️in LOVE with Compassion Maybe i'll go back and Listen to the older Messages, that actually Helped my heart. idk.. i'm going to continue to Seek The Lord on this, and with every single thing.
@@jesuschristismylordforevermoreThe best thing is to read, study, and listen to the Word of God. The washing of the water of the Word cleanses us and prepares us for Jesus. Ephesians 5:25-26.
@@donnaleveron5711 YES & AMEN❤️ (Through 'death' for almost 9 1/2yrs, Above and Beyond "all i thought i knew; and this body screaming otherwise. Not to mention the persecution for Believing. Makes me want to Know HIM, more and more, Who HE Is❤️and Share HIM, In TRUTH And In LOVE Unfortunately, most are so carnal, they do not Understand, and get mad, and offended (they take it upside down :( ...it is utterly 💔, though, i Love them, unconditionally (we do not wrestle against flesh and blood... Yet, through GOD's Kind of LOVE) i See where some, whom are the most deceived, want to 'do' horrific things, to Believers😓 (they guise as 'light'). So much has been infiltrated, though most have No clue😓 (Not even the 'elect'). That is why... EVERYONE IS IN MY HEART AND PRAYERS ❤️🙏🎚️🕊️❤️
I love Deborah's book! I've read it over many times and will continue to do so. So, as I say this, please don't stone me! I don't think any of us should jump to conclusions here. We must remember we are only hearing one side of the story...and like it or not, we are hearing it through the filter of hurt and pain. I'm not suggesting Deborah's being dishonest, quite the opposite. But there are two sides to every story. We love Andrew Wommack Ministries and will continue to support him, especially in light of 2 Timothy 3:14 (read that in the NLT and MSG!!). I'm sorry the world has to witness our fussing amongst ourselves. I pray for both sides. That the Holy Spirit will guide into all truth and heal broken hearts and bring change wherever it is needed...on either side.
do some research on the jezebel spirit and what happens when it infiltrates a ministry REV 2: 20-24 . Our fam. was utterly shocked as we watched this spirit come into Charis in 2015 during our 3 rd yr ( so we knew the ministry very wee before it happened) and take over more yr by yr . The trail of destruction is huge and the Word is twisted as it is not the HS . There are many many who have reached out, spoken up including myself but all is shut down and it is Pride . For jez. to rule and reign there has to be an Ahab allowing it all
This is not "fussing amongst ourselves", and who cares what the world thinks? Keeping up appearances is a very worldly point of view. Life is messy for everyone from time to time. A little more openess and transparency would be a good start from "the other side", but keeping it quiet and sweeping under the carpet only allows it to worsen. Light needs to be brought into the situation in order for correction and healing. It will not end well if this is not dealt with forthrightly and openly for the Body to see.
Actually there are 3 sides to a story. Your side, my side and then the truth. Have you been there? I have and what she says lines up. The word tells us to not allow anyone to deceive us so it’s important to pray and seek the truth. Do you know what an advocate is? Would you give the same advice to a child who is being sexually abused? Would you say, “oh, that’s her side of the story “. No! We have a due diligence to seek the truth. And again I will share what we are supposed to be doing what they don’t share in the church ”“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”“ Matthew 18:15-20 NKJV bible.com/bible/114/mat.18.15-20.NKJV Jesus said that. I challenge you to seek out truth, defend the weak like God’s word tells us.
Deborah I met you 3 yrs running in Telford. You are a lovely person and SOO brave. My dad often told me to see these things, which in time I did. I totally lost all faith. Pastors ask you to tithe and are never off an airplane. When you are a no body in the church you observe what really is going on. They don’t care to hide it from you. Everything you are saying is true and I believe you have only opened the flood gates. Many will come forward with similar experience. Love to you and your family, keep brave and keep true
Sister I applaud you for your courage to stand for what this really is. You are correct in giving the recognition of this being unbiblical, backwards and upside down. It is good that you are speaking of it to make others aware that they have a right to question. Here is what I know. There will be a shaking. God judges His house FIRST. and at that shaking in God’s judgment, all of this will be highly and openly exposed the truth will come out. All the best to you dear sister. Blessings. 🙏🏼❤️🕊🎚
Once again, thank you for speaking out, Mrs Deborah. I’m assuming that your “friends” from the healing community and Healing Journeys Today have distanced themselves from you or ignored your story. Because they are still promoting AWMI and Charis, even to this day. I’m sorry to see that, but I and others stand with you. Those who support corruption and abuse will be held accountable one day. They do not really have the Holy Spirit, nor do they follow the true Christ. You will know them by their fruits…
You are taking up her offense and her side which is wrong. Charis is a great Bible school and because others do not support her doesn’t make them wrong. Perhaps satan is using her. You should be very careful about getting involved in her perceptions and offense.
@@magdalebel6092 perhaps everything she is saying is truth. Just because you don’t support her doesn’t make her wrong. Perhaps Satan is using certain people in Charis Bible school, or perhaps even yourself.
Oh Dear, I won't support ministry that manipulate, ostracize, shame, blame and is greedy :) oh, most importantly ministry that never stood up for the people that PAY FOR THEIR JOBS :) perhaps you are deceived and I will pray for you to see the truth. No worries, I got you.
Oh and btw since when taking up offense means SPEAKING UP about abuse? Charis washed ur brain with "offense" preaching. Next time when you will see someone harming another person don't react please, dont take offense ok? Great :)
@@annamachalska762 exactly!! I DO take “offense” to abuse and neglect, just like Jesus himself did and still does! Just like the laws do! It’s just another sign that AWMI and Charis do not follow the true Christ- while sitting back in their cushy, luxurious multi million dollar buildings and homes. What a joke! 🙄🙄
That’s EXACTLY right, they are being policed. I was there for the first year and things seemed WAY WAY off. It seems very cultish. This saddens me because I find value in the basic teachings of Andrew’s
I believe you, 100%. I also think that it might be because you come from a country where hierarchy is not as pronounced. And so, you are more quick to notice abuses.
Please ask the Lord about writing another book to help the people who are not getting healed and help others to stand in faith for days , months with out seeing a physical manifestation sister Deborah. God Bless 💕✝
Its why Jesus never started massive universities, no celeb status, only house to house churches. He Himself went and washed the feet of ordinary humans...and than to top it off , died for us...talk ab sample of leadership. Prayin for these ppl,( elevated leaders) its a though place to b in....🙏 For they hv to answer to Jesus Himself the same as all, at the end.🙏
Those who love God, hate abuse…just as God does (Psalm 11:5). Those who love God don’t call an abuser a covenant partner, they call them a covenant destroyer. Those who love God, those who understand God’s plans to prosper and not to harm us, don’t ask the abuse victim what more they can do to fix the abuser, they ask what they can do to help them escape from the abuser. Those who love God, love God’s commandment: “Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked” (Psalm 82:3-4).
I think there's a subtle legalism there. A works mentality that is not easy to detect. But legalism is a sure way to stop the flow of the power of God.
Ironically, Andrew is pretty big on legalism. He'll just never say it explicitly. But you can tell by his teachings. For every truth about Grace, there's a set of works he teaches you must do to experience that truth.
@@WheelEstate I've noticed that too. Like the teaching on getting rid of unbelief. Works-based teaching makes faith into a work. "Get more faith. Get perfect faith." He says that your problem is not that, but your unbelief. So instead of working to get perfect faith. Just work to get rid of your unbelief. Same works-based teaching. I realised that something was wrong when I was wracking my brain trying to get rid of my unbelief. Then I heard that familiar voice of the Holy Spirit saying to me, "Don't worry about your unbelief". It freed me.
@@SteppingOut957 Right. I'm starting to understand that Jesus believed perfectly for us and we can just surrender to that. Holy Spirit helps us to surrender to and believe in what Jesus did, and we are treated as if we surrendered and believed on our own. I find it impossible to generate faith on my own, get rid of doubts, get rid of unbelief, surrender, etc. Only Holy Spirit can give me the ability to do any of that. Plus, none of the teachers ever define what doubt and unbelief are. If I Google a symptom, am I in unbelief? If I have one negative thought about my situation, am I in doubt? It's so subjective and impossible to avoid.
@@WheelEstate Whenever I ask myself, am I in doubt? I just conclude that the answer is yes. "Do I have a fault in this or that area?". I just conclude that yes, I do. "Have I done enough?". No. "Do I have enough faith?". No. I've written myself off in that regard. I've concluded that I need Jesus and His merits. I need a Saviour every time. It's not easy and I struggle, but I am unlearning my works. I sometimes get drawn back to subtly legalistic teachings because of the need of my situation. But, I am slowly learning to let these go and to allow myself to trust solely on the grace of God. It's so hard. But I have asked God to deliver from my works. It's slowly happening. Sometimes I think its too slow. But I can see changes in my thinking and how I relate to God. The only person that I can safely listen to where I know I will receive pure grace is Joseph Prince.
@@SteppingOut957 this is so awesome to read . We have had our eyes opened too to the underlying legalism at Charis that always puts focus back on us instead of pointing to Jesus . He is our Saviour and says us day to day from all situations !! PTL
Can anyone tell me if all those healing journeys videos were both genuine AND represented the full truth of Andrew's involvement please? I am trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I have most of his books, watched very many hours of his programmes, done all both he and Barry Bennett said to do, but still no results. God has made it very clear there is an issue of having faith in faith itself here, rather than faith in Him, but Ive also read the Colorado newspaper articles where one staff member said he had not seen ONE healing in 7 years there.
I had stage four Merkel cancer in 2013. That was a death sentence because there was no known cure to the extremely aggressive Merkel. I can only speak for myself. It was the teachings of Andrew Womack, Kenneth Copeland, ministries, and many of the other word of Faith ministries that supported me and taught me the pure word of God. If it had not been for the teachings of those ministries, I would've been dead a long time ago. I was never discouraged from going to surgery, or having moderate radiation treatments. I will be forever grateful for all the labor of these ministries because of their teachings concerning healing, and what the scriptures say. I was not a student at Charis. However, I would caution anyone from putting their faith in someone else's healing journey or experience. ❤
Is she lying about what happened in her class then? The Bible says false teachers will try to infiltrate Christian communities. Could this be happening at Charis?
I just hope that you don’t forget how God led you to Charis Bible College and your children were healed. Your journey inspired me! I shared it a lot. The devil is definitely trying to use your voice against the whole school. Because of some poor leadership which everyone comes across at one time in their life, people are flawed and some are narcissistic, depending whether they’re Christian or not, but I pray that you deeply go into healing with the Lord and not keep putting these videos out. I do not believe it’s going to help other people who are sick And do continue to believe for their healing. Charis is a school that helps people hear the word of God for themselves and often yes some are not healed, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good place still to go. Healing works by love 100% right. Not everyone has the same heart and you sound very scorned. I’m sorry for that. I hope you find peace. God bless you Deborah.
Maybe God is trying to use her voice to protect people from these narcissistic leaders? The people she talks about are in top leadership positions at AWMI, should the growing corruption be ignored if we really care about the health of the ministry longterm?
Discipline is required in discipleship, no doubt. Andrew is not one who heals. If people in chairs is not getting healed, it makes sense that they have knowledge problem. I am out of charis. By just listening to Andrew's teachings, reading scriptures I am healed from chronic stomach pain, psoriasis and so so many sicknesses.
Norman Vincent Peale wrote the book the Power of Positive Thinking that WOF love to preach and teach on. He was a heretic, embraced Mormonism, and was a 33rd degree Mason. He mixed christianity with Psychology. Womack and the clan teach his doctrines and I challenge anyone who disagrees to look him up. WOF uses texts out of context to confirm their teachings all the time. Read the Word in context and you will not be deceived. I was in WOF for over a decade and the Lord showed me how deceptive this practice and teaching is.
I have attended Charis Bible College. I did not have this experience at all. I think there are personalities that can not handle this college. I understand this, if its not for you, its not for you. No big deal. Sorry you had this experience, I wish it had been different for you. I loved it though. I hope and pray you find your way Deborah God bless.
It seems that if it was a Bible college teaching the full council of Gods word, and especially love, that personality should not matter….that all would be welcome and treated like the Bible instructs us to………dont u think?
I have to say i am absolutely shocked to be hearing about all this at Charis u just dont know what to say or how to quite deal with all this information
I thought your intent was to just share your personal experience about the course you took at that campus during one semester. However, now you are spreading negative comments from other students who’ve subsequently contacted you - and now it’s about the entire ministry and how they run their school. Andrew was gracious in his response to you, refunded your tuition, and changed the coursework for that department going forward you said. Let it go and take back your peace.
Andrew lives in a very modest home. He dresses very modestly. He is one of the most down to earth men. He isn’t flashy and flying in private jets. He puts the money into the ministry. He takes care of his employees. This is one ministry that doesn’t live that way. The ministry is not a cult. We know several people associated with the ministry and these are just lies being put out on TH-cam. This lady obviously is offended and is now a slanderer and a gossip. Things may have happened but she has her perception and others may have a different perception. It is wrong to do what she is doing . I will never listen to any of her teachings because she has no credibility.
@@magdalebel6092 I just listend to AW himself and read some of his stuff and saw the campus... 'Mark and avoid' as 1st Thess says. He is a false teacher. His 'modesty' is a facade; wait till he opens his mouth... people shrivel up and shiver. No! And these are not demons! I talk about born again people who study and read The Word.
@magdalebel6092 Who sent you here? AWM staff? You acting like you are offended :) We are not spiritually blind to believe in modesty of Andrew :) I don't deny he is good man but for sure he got lost a long time ago. Don't even try to shame Deborah here. We don't care if you don't trust her. You didn't came here to support but to shame and blame the victim. Like all toxic people do :)
@@magdalebel6092Titus 2:3, as an aged woman, 72 yrs, believer 45 yrs, I am going to advise you to hold your tongue. Stop accusing brethren and listen objectively to what is said, asking the Holy Spirit to lead you into all truth. Do you follow Jesus or man? Paul admonished believers to follow him as he followed Christ. Those in ministry are just as vulnerable to the wiles of the devil as the rest of us. Also satan sends in his emissaries to disrupt and cause harm to the little ones (young believers). The acts described are witchcraft, manipulation, deceit, etc. And likely being used on the leaders as well as the students. Pray for understanding and watch what is happening.
❤️🩹 I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Receiving from God seems impossible, despite the simplicity of the message being taught. So I understand your frustration and dismay. At this point, I don't know what else to do or not do in order to experience finished work realities.
Same for me. It seems so close but yet so far. Finally, after many years I am relying only on God. No preacher, evangelist, just God. I am tired of healing teachings.
@@cathyB3713 Exactly. That's where I am. And despite my knowing this, I keep going back to the healing teachings because "what if this time is the time I'll finally discover the missing link?" It's self-torture, really.
From what I heard there are some healings but not around Charis students and I believe there is not much healings in general but they portrait it as it is to drawn people to Charis. New members means money :) You can receive ur healing without coming to Charis.
Yes, you can. We all can. We are all the same but people are not feeling worthy so they travel to big mega churches for healing. Do you received Holy Spirit Baptism? Holy Spirit will lead you. I personally started focusing on relationship with God. Just walking and talking with him day to day. Somethimes it takes time to receive God's Love for us but it is worth it. Love heals :)
@@annamachalska762 are we looking for healing or Jesus the Christ? We want signs and wonders (like the Jews in the gospels) or just Him; The Way, The Truth and The Life?
@@donajohanna I don’t think that seeking healing is the same thing as seeking signs and wonders in the way that you are referring to. Jesus healed all manners of sickness, disease and oppression of the devil. There are many instances of this in the gospels and he wants us to be free and delivered. This is not the signs and wonders that Jesus was talking about. Healing is a huge part of Andrew’s teachings and ministry or at least it used to be. This is why so many people are drawn to this ministry to help receive from Jesus. That is evident given the dedicated emphasis of the healing journeys available on the AWMI site. I suspect you have not been challenged with a years long chronic illness as many have. If so, forgive me for being presumptive but it seems you are missing the point.
Is all the teaching a fake? I am very discouraged! Why they wear glasses if they have a relevation of healing? Do they teach something they dont belief?
I personally don’t think it’s fake. I do think ministries can get too big for their britches and priorities change. I hope they reevaluate the situation to see if they’ve gotten off track.
Everything at AWM and CBC is based on scripture. Its sad when a few pple get offtrack and possibly dim the overall positive impact of this ministry. Hopefully her concerns can be addressed and she gets much needed peace including anyone else who had negative experiences.
Why on Earth would you judge the truth of the Word of God by the fact that a preacher has glasses?! 😂. Please just open your Bible and read and ask the Lord to open it to you , if you are going about the Christian life by way of if someone has glasses or not
No, I don’t think this teaching is fake. I’ve learned much from it. But the Bible says false teachers will try to infiltrate Christian communities, and these people must be stopped or else they do damage to the whole ministry.
Charis is a BIBLE College, those who attend are there to prepare for ministry. We live in a very "touchy, feely" generation. My humble suggestion is that you talk to God about the things you are describing rather than being a detractor. I'm sorry that you have apparently suffered some "injustices" Remember that "sowing discord among brethren" is one of the seven abominations to the Lord. You may want to start a private support group and pray that those leading the programs may see the situation from your viewpoint. Many times things get overlooked. Remember that there is therefore NO Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. We are admonished to beware of pride as it was the first sin and originated in heaven with Lucifer. Disaffection is a subtle sin, we are to be watchful for our adversary, the devil, walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. We must resist him steadfast in the faith. Be blessed !
"We live in a very "touchy, feely" generation." - That does not mean everyone's emotions are invalid. "My humble suggestion is that you talk to God about the things you are describing rather than being a detractor." - Since when did raising awareness of abuse turn into "detracting"? By this same standard, we could also call Cindy Clemishire a "detractor" of Robert Morris and Gateway Church, but we aren't going to, are we, because she was right all along. Or the victims of Ravi Zacharais? "Remember that "sowing discord among brethren" is one of the seven abominations to the Lord." - This is passive-aggressive fear-mongering. If raising awareness of abuse is deemed "sowing discord among the brethren" than you might as well roll out the red carpet for the Devil to have a party in the Church because he's gaslighted people into staying quiet about actual issues for fear of being branded as "sowing discord". Pathetic. "You may want to start a private support group and pray that those leading the programs may see the situation from your viewpoint." - So, "Keep Sweet and Pray?" A support group assumes a gathering of people who come together to help deal with their shared negative experiences related to a particular entity. And therefore, "by the testimony of two or three witnesses must any charge and every accusing statement be sustained and confirmed." "Many times things get overlooked." - That is not an excuse for the things that do. "Remember that there is therefore NO Condemnation in to those who are in Christ Jesus." - Again, this does not mean we do not hold people accountable for their actions, especially Christian Leaders, who should be the best of us and yet fall short almost every time. Righteous fury exists. Are we not called to hate evil? "We are admonished to beware of pride as it was the first sin and originated in heaven from Lucifer." - What does this have to do with spiritual abuse at a Bible College? It's ironic to lecture Deborah about pride while writing a comment that comes across as preachy and holier-than-thou. "Disaffection is a subtle sin, we are to be watchful for our adversary, the devil, walks about as roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." - Charis ostracises people that don't agree with them or that question them, so they are the disaffectionate ones. The Devil isn't just a roaring lion, he isn't stupid. He was the first of all liars, of all deceivers, all tricksters and flatterers. He will use these tactics to try and destroy the Church. And judging from the numerous Christian Leaders that have revealed as false prophets and doers of evil, well... Houston, we've got a problem.
@@MManAt56You are the type of person who misquote scripture just to gossip. Lol. The one thing I've learned about the "wolves in sheeps clothing" thing is... people that talk like you, labeling others as false this or that, simply because they believe a little differently... you're usually the wolf. Lol
@@BrandonBostonCreator Lol. Calling someone a "wolf in sheep's clothing" without refuting any of their actual arguments doesn't solve anything. And real wolves don't stand up and whistleblow abuse in Church, they enable it.
I would like to hear you respond to the actual examples of abuse she mentions. For example, repeatedly referring to students as “losers”. Is that ok for a Charis professor to do?
I don't think that is so biblical. We are emotional creatures and we can't always trust our feelings, that's why we need to rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. Our own minds and hearts can often lead us in the wrong direction. I think it's best to only put that kind of confidence in God - definitely not in myself and not in other people.
@@ruth6110 the Holy Spirit resides in our Heart, which is the mind of Christ also, not the emotional heart. As the man think in his Heart, so is he also. The heart here is the seat of love, peace and joy from God. I pray that you may prosper in all things, just as your soul prospers. So, soul can prosper, the heart can prosper. In the bible, there are 2 meanings of the heart. One is carnal like emotions, feelings inflicted by the enemy, one is the the seat of love, peace and joy, wisdom. "Incline your ears to my sayings, Keep them in your heart and meditate days and night. " That is what God said to...Joshua. So, it depends on we talk about, carnal heart or the Spirit of God speaking to our heart ( Spirit). I know what you talk about. I listen to the revelation of God. But if I do not feel peace in my heart, not my head, then I would not do it. The mind is the flesh, carnal. But the mind of Christ speaks to our heart. Thank you.
@@ruth6110 proverbs 4: 20-22 talks about the heart, the seat of love, peace, joy, wisdom, obedience to the teachings of the words of God. So, when we talk about heart, we need to make the distinction between the carnal mind, carnal heart where the enemy can inflict negative thoughts emotions to us, or we can talk about love, peace, joy in our heart where God resides, where the mind of Christ resides also. In Chinese medicine and characters ( written letters), the mind and the heart are the same character.
@@ruth6110 1 Samuel 14-7 So his armor bearer said to him, " Do all that is in your heart. Go then; here i am with you, according to your heart." This is the heart that I am talking about.
Hate and discontent!? You're equating the raising of abuse within a Christian environment, a potential life-destroying problem, to "hate and discontent"? Of course she's "discontent", she has every reason to be given what she has outlined in these videos. But where's the hate? She isn't exactly cussing people out or calling for their execution.
Maybe Andrew and his staff should start with dealing with the discontent for starters. Unlike the apostle Paul Andrew is never content with the amount of money or influence he has and is always trying to make more and teach others to seek prosperity
@@BrandonBostonCreator it’s not gossip. Lolol It’s exposing. “Do not partner with the deeds of darkness but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11.” This is the word of the apostle Paul who’s far more reliable than Wommack.
@@BrandonBostonCreator is it really gossip to talk about unbiblical concepts like the Prosperity Gospel and “God wanting you filthy, stinking, dirty rich”? I’d rather someone had warned my family my about a wolf like Andrew years ago than worry about gossiping
yes she did say that and she said that her boys' experiences in the past were positive and full of love - she is addressing the issues that are currently happening NOW.
Deborah, did you find AWM/ Charis to ever misquote/ misinterpret (add or take away) from the written Word of God? Or didn't you like their style or how you were treated? In life we may not like various messengers who come to teach, or how they may treat us (I really disliked my drill sergeant, but he prepared me for battle & life, which I was grateful for in the end. Anyway, we must all consider, Matthew 7:3-5 (NIV): "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
Just wondering, but in regards to students who have been described as vulnerable, broken etc., perhaps the Charis Bible College wasn't the best place for them. I have struggled with an anxiety disorder for many years and I know I have a lot of emotional baggage. I truly love the Lord, but I don't think I'd have the fortitude to be in a strict kind of study environment right now. I need a lot of gentleness and kindness, and Charis is an educational establishment afterall. Perhaps students who are struggling with a lot of unresolved issues need a more gentle environment to start receiving the healing they require for their souls before going to Charis. Have you heard of Ellel Ministries? I think that kind of environment would be much better for people who need a lot of support.
@@justbrowsing8675actually I had mentioned this to the man who abused me at charis woodlandpark. I told him if I did wrong he could tell me on the spirit of gentleness but instead he barked on my face :(
Reconcile? Reconcile what? If you listened it is she that reached out numerous times only to be ostracized, blamed and shunned. It seems you did not understand the message.
@@cathyB3713actually it isn't Jezebel, a Jezebel spirit is not scriptural, however a spirit of anti-Christ, witchcraft, lust, are named in the New Testament. Manipulation is a form of witchcraft and is in operation here. I know that doctrine has made its rounds, but it is a doctrine of devils and man. Jesus never called a spirit by any Old Testament persons name, so neither should we. This was never taught or heard of 20 years ago, it's a false doctrine, put forth by someone who may have meant well but got it wrong. When Jesus asked the demoniac/ demons possessing him what is your name, and they/it replied Legion, for we are many, Jesus just commanded them/it to go. Demons lie, you cannot trust what they say. I am seeing all kinds of teaching pop up about this or that OT person/spirit, totally unscriptural, and those should know better.
I’ve watched all of these videos and yet to see what your main problem was besides you got a little cold and that the leadership doesn’t stop everything they’re doing and hit the sos button when you’re feelings are hurt.
Oh, so double-standards, abuse of power, disregard of legit complaints, lying about working conditions, emotional manipulation and abuse, child abuse, unbiblical principles paraded as biblical principles and lack of accountability and responsibility = hurt feelings? This comment is a blatant and unashamedly bold mis-representation of Deborah's story.
@@MManAt56 child abuse!? For crying out loud your mad! Everything she is saying is dangerous to all ministries as anything and everything could be deemed “manipulation”. Students aren’t there to be in charge, they aren’t forced to be there, and they have to submit to the authority of the college if they wish to attend. Telling someone not to be offended isn’t manipulation it’s good advice and advice that should be chewed on!
@@jeffswenson4264 "Everything she is saying is dangerous to all ministries as anything and everything could be deemed "manipulation". -- Why is it dangerous to ministries -- is exposing the truth of what's actually going on within these "Christian" organisations dangerous? It would only be dangerous to these ministries if they didn't want anyone to know about their dirty laundry / skeletons in the closet. Yes, "anything and everything" could be "deemed" as manipulation, but not everything IS manipulation. "Students aren't there to be in charge," -- True, but that isn't an excuse to mistreat them. "they aren't forced to be there," -- True -- though keeping in mind some of the Students are desperate souls and CBC is their last hope in this life. "and they have to submit to the authority of the college if they wish to attend." -- Again, true, but what if that same authority is ungodly, unbiblical and mistreats people? "Telling someone not to be offended isn't manipulation it's good advice and advice that should be chewed on!" -- Telling someone not to be offended isn't inherently manipulative, but it can be -- I've seen it myself, where someone will be justifiably angry (offended) about a legit concern or issue, but then others will harp on about "not taking offense", which in their eyes is a cardinal sin just shy of blasphemy, and thus guilt-trip this person into not feeling angry and therefore not do anything about whatever legit issue they encountered -- because they don't want to be branded as "unforgiving" or "offended", which in their little culture might as well be treason. I've seen manipulation, and it's always sweet, love-infused, perfume scented words mixed with honey and fresh herbs that all sounds nice and good -- but it's all to mask its untruthful, ungodly, rotten and festering core of wicked deceitfulness.
I have seen this type of experience in JGLM😢, so I grieved and carried on. I have only watched one video of Andrew Wommack and was horrified, he said christians who commit suicide go to heaven. 😮The Holy Spirit immediately gave me 3 scriptures against that teaching and I was so upset I commented on the video, that he should take that video down!!!
Hello there. I just read your comment. I haven't read anything in the Bible about those who commit suicide going to hell. Committing suicide isn't the unpardonable sin. If we can be forgiven of all sins why is suicide any different. Many people commit suicide when their minds are feeling very disturbed. Only God knows what is in their hearts, and if they have truly committed their lives to Christ Jesus, why would He abandon them for making this terrible mistake? I have never listened to this lady's videos about her disappointment with Charis before. I'm feeling quite confused as I don't think anything is wrong with heirarchy. Don't we need to learn how to serve and how to come under authority? I don't know enough about her experiences but I feel a bit like why don't these people leave this Bible College if they hate it so much. I do understand that we all need to be loved, but isn't it a College. When I went to university, I didn't expect by Tutors to look after me and I don't see why anyone would expect the leadership at the College to be responsible for the emotional wellbeing of their Students. I'm very confused by what she's saying. Maybe these students are not ready for Bible College yet. It sounds like the particular students she is speaking about need to be getting Christian counselling and emotional support before they'll be ready for the Charis teaching environment. If they need that much softly softly treatment, I don't think they'll be able to cope with such a structured environment. Perhaps they have a lot of deep rooted hurts that they still need to recover from. They sound like extremely sensitive people who need to be in a very protective environment and not at College. Sorry if I'm sounding a bit harsh, but the type of emotional support that these students seem to need sounds more akin to personal therapy to me. I don't think you can realistically expect to get that kind of support from the College. Perhaps they have gone there with unrealistic expectations, in which case they are bound to end up with extreme disappointment. Only Jesus can meet all our needs, other people with always disappoint us.
@@ruth6110 to respond - I would ask if you understand that depression is demonic? Suicide is premeditated murder. The Holy Spirit told me that when Satan tempted Jesus to throw himself off the cliff, that it was wrong. We are not to tempt God. I know all this from first hand experience as I was told I had 4 kinds of depression and ptsd, was on psych meds for 20yrs, suicidal 3 times. But God delivered me, 10 yrs ago and those thoughts were not my own as I no longer have them. People who are depressed need deliverance. If it looks like kill steal destroy its a devil. We should die from old age. Or just be translated.
Why not? I have friends that have been abused by Charis staff and teachers and they live in Colorado Springs and do not want to have anything to do with Charis.
Case in point: Daniel Amstutz, the Director of the Healing School, wears glasses lol. And so do many other Charis graduates who teach on healing. It's so ironic.
@@SteppingOut957 Unless they're wearing fake glasses for fashion, they're wearing them to correct their vision problems. Isn't that something to be healed from?
@@WheelEstate Is what they teach about healing true or not? Is healing in the atonement? If so, what do I care whether or not the preacher is perfect in their experience? Is what they say true? That's what matters. If I look to a man to judge if God is true, I am in trouble. Because man is fallible and imperfect.
You've made multiple videos of gossiping, in the comments so many are doing the same thing. I just glanced at the comments. A lot of the same people spreading hatered. Simply, just leave the school or whatever instead of bashing people. You can misuse whatever verses you people like, but this is you seeming unhappy, so you're gathering together a bunch of other people who are unhappy with the school, just to trash people. It's wrong. Period. And for the few that keep saying "victim shaming" or whatever, that's also a form of manipulation you people are using to keep people from saying good things about the ministry... it's in the comments. Whatever you're trying to do with this is just wrong. If people there do bad stuff, they have to answer for that. But labeling the entire ministry the way you did is evil. I know people who have never given a penny to them and have been blessed by this ministry. I certainly have been blessed and will keep being blessed. We are all people. We might rub people the wrong way or not get along. But it does not bless God at all for you to do stuff like this... regardless how you frame it. And the people in the comments saying terrible things, calling others "false prophets and wolves" those are usually the wolves. Lol.
"You've made multiple videos of gossiping, in the comments so many are doing the same thing. I just glanced at the comments. A lot of the same people spreading hatered." -- You consider the act of raising awareness of abuse, both physical and spiritual, gossiping? That attitude enables abuse to thrive and shames the victim into silence. Should the abused never speak up lest they accused of "gossiping"? Or is it only "gossiping" if you don't want it to be true? "Simply, just leave the school or whatever instead of bashing people. You can misuse whatever verses you people like, but this is you seeming unhappy, so you're gathering together a bunch of other people who are unhappy with the school, just to trash people." -- Again, you redefine "raising awareness of abuse and its perpetrators" to "bashing". My previous point stands. And if people are unhappy, who are you to decide what their reasons are and whether they are justified or not? Also as an ex-student I can attest that Charis constantly misuses verses, especially when it comes to men and women in marriage. "It's wrong. Period. And for the few that keep saying "victim shaming" or whatever, that's also a form of manipulation you people are using to keep people from saying good things about the ministry... it's in the comments. " -- And I won't stop saying it. The irony of this is hilarious. To call the phrase "victim shaming" a form of manipulation is astonishing to me. No, I do not believe it stops people from sharing good things about the Ministry, it just so happens that when people DO share good things about the Ministry, they use it as an excuse to discredit the people who are raising awareness of the bad things in the Ministry. "Whatever you're trying to do with this is just wrong. If people there do bad stuff, they have to answer for that. But labelling the entire ministry the way you did is evil." -- But people like you ensure that they DON'T answer for the bad things they do because its denied that they did anything wrong to begin with and the people that say otherwise are "gossipers" or are "bashing people". I dare say not standing up for weak and vulnerable, which most abused people are, is evil. And if the Ministry enables those things to happen, it deserves to be labelled as such. (Not saying the Ministry IS evil, but has done evil things.) "I know people who have never given a penny to them and have been blessed by this ministry. I certainly have been blessed and will keep being blessed." -- There is nothing wrong with that. Indeed it is a blessing to many, many people, yourself included. But that fact mustn't become an excuse to justify the Ministry's actions that DON'T bless people but instead hurt them through abuse. "We are people. We might rub people the wrong way or not get along. But it does not bless God at all for you to do this... regardless how you frame it." -- If raising awareness of abuse and trying to combat it in order to protect people from hurt does not bless God, then I don't think we believe in the same God. What kind of psycho pulls the God card to discourage bringing about awareness of abuse and tries to discredit the whistleblowers. "And the people in the comments saying terrible things, calling others "false prophets and wolves", those are usually the wolves. Lol. -- Ah yes, because no one accused of being a false prophet or a wolf in sheep's clothing has ever been exactly what they were accused of being. (Sarcasm detected) Again, victim shaming by twisting the narrative around and blaming them. Or in this case, "no u".
I can see negative spirit in your face. Charis reaches more than 60 million people daily. They are all blessed with its message. How can a stone thrown in the sea change the pure water. Please, if you have christian heart, go reconcile with people you know for so many years or you better keep quite and your obligation as the Follower of Christ.
Charis and Andrew protects the abusers. Doborah cares for her fellow Brothers and Sisters and she needs to speak up. She tried for years to speak with the ministry. They don't even care! Who is the evil one here?
🤣🤣🤣 Oh my! You see a negative spirit in her?? That’s a new tactic to throw at victims, did Charis teach you that?? 🤣🤣 I’m floored at the ignorant, abusive, dismissive comments by some of you Andrew Wommack followers.
”“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”“ Matthew 18:15-20 NKJV bible.com/bible/114/mat.18.15-20.NKJV
That’s right, Henry. People should not “complain” about or expose abuse within a cult. Those are the rules! But thank God that Deborah can think for herself, knows the truth, and has the courage to tell others about the abuses at Charis and AWMI. Now, go give YOUR life “totally to God” and YOU stop complaining about abuses being exposed 👍
I heard you speak of "issues" with Charis weeks ago and I was deeply affected. I adore you and Andrew Wommack both. I have supported him financially for twenty four years and have my friends doing so in very significant amounts financially. I was able to easily listen nightly for years until they changed the website into two very difficult websites approximately four years ago. So I went from watching almost every night to not watching due to the change in their website. I have greatly missed the shows! My grown daughter had been prayed over successfully about three years ago. Last week she went with her son and a gentleman who needed to see the love here as he is a new christian and respected our love of Charis and Andrew Wommack. My daughter was dumbfounded by what occurred. It was as if the speaker was trying to feed their ego and literally calling out certain diseases, to show she knew the particular illness! My daughter said it was like another world she stepped in to! There was also no one praying for the people as there used to be on Wednesday afternoon. The gentleman with her was carrying an ill child and cameras were literally put in his face! I can not tell you how disappointed and astonished she was. She suggested I call and tell someone. I told her I knew things were wrong as I had heard Debra McDermott distance herself from him. I love both and am praying that Andrew will see what is going on and resolve the issues. Please get the speakers with egos out of there immediately. There are many hurting people and Andrew was always sincerely trying to help them putting God first. God please help Charis and give Deborah peace in all she does. I pray and demand the enemy get his hands off anything trying to hurt Andrew Wommack or Deborah! I know he is a good man. I pray blessing over Deborah as she is an exceptional loving, wonderful woman also intent on helping people!
Hello Deborah and family! Thank you for sharing your experience and speaking up. My heart is grieved that you guys experienced all this. My family and i experienced very similar abuse at a former church many years ago. Your story sounds very, very familiar. From what you shared, you don't sound like a complainer. Merely a concerned mother, classmate, and beliver who honed in on things that were not right. I am so sorry you have experienced this gaslighting and cancellation.
I pray for peace and comfort and further healing for all of you guys. Your family testimony has been a big comfort and blessing to many of us who are still believing for wholeness for our kiddos on the spectrum. Blessings to you and your household 🙏
There is no love and compassion there it is very true.
This video is incredibly helpful and insightful. The level of detail and explanation takes it from opinion to analysis and is a very useful resource for anyone experiencing similar concerns.
I found this incredibly helpful for me and what I am also starting to see elsewhere.
Daring to believe the unspeakable is a very brave place to go, especially in Christian circles where condemnation is an effective silencer.
The watchman analogy is very well spoken of too and a challenge to all of us who find themselves in a similar place
Thank you 🙏
Thank you Deborah for sharing! Your testimony blessed my life years ago. Over the years, I been turned off from certain ministries that I followed . Last of these was Charis . I couldn’t understand except that I believed it was the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So seeing this actually confirmed these things. It also reminded me to hear and obey the Holy Spirit.
I still believe in healing and my faith continues to strengthen. I appreciate your courage and honesty. God Bless you and your family.
I've been increasingly feeling the celebrity atmosphere when they have conferences. Given the collapse of IHOP, it's necessary to speak about these things. Thank you for speaking out. I always loved your teaching and noticed when your healing journey wasn't included in a recent video about all the great interviews. Dang.
I am so disappointed how so-called godly people were treating you, your family and fellow students. I'm glad you got out on time and that you are safe now. I followed Andrew Wommack many years and know your family's story. This is evil, but God sees everything. Thank you for sharing and coming forward. It takes a lot.
You did the right thing. Your eyes have been open. Congrats to you for your discernment. God will honor you.
thank you for being brave and explaining what is happening at the college. It will save heart ache, money and now maybe changes will be made.
best change is to be no more.... rapture happening soon, imho .. funny if they get left behind, huh,?
Every Christian ministry should have an "ombudsman" one who knows the heart of the ministry, is paid by the ministry but is to be totally independent, so anyone can air a grievance and it will not be swept under the carpet in the name of protecting the ministry.
I listened to all your videos and wow. I never attended Charis, but I did attend a church tnat was closely associated with Charis and with every experience I had with them, i became more and more troubled. Much of it was things you've mentioned: if you're abused, it's your fault for being offended, if you're not healed, its your fault for having weak faith. As someone who was very involved in my church's online campus (where many Charis students found themselves) I was also extremely troubled by the America-worship that seemed ingrained in non-American members. It broke my heart to hear people outside America treat it like the promised land, when I KNOW God wanted to move in their country as well as mine.
Your recommendations to make the culture more Christ-like were perfect. Honestly, great recommendations even for ministries who WEREN'T having issues. God bless you for speaking up. Jesus' kingdom is first for those hurt...the very people you're speaking up for. Not for the VIP's at the top. Of course there will be issues when you don't have the basics of the kingdom yet.
If it were just you, alone, affected by this situation, then sure, you could step back and say, "Father God help....help me." And just handled your situation between you and God. However, there were and are children involved, and other students, that changes the game.
Oh Deborah thank you..these videos were actually very healing for me. I am over in Australia but have been indirectly affected by this ministry too which caused me deep, deep distress and confusion about God and His Word. I lost a dear friend to cancer who was strictly following the You Have Already Got It course and was also trying to teach it to myself and others and she went off all her medical treatments but she then she just quickly went down hill with symptoms and eventually died.
I was completely devastated and it has taken me a long time to recover from and accept her death and the pain of that loss was so deep that I could not go to that church anymore and see her not there - I moved to another church but still reeling from the deep pain of losing her and still deeply confused about healing - how to receive it etc.
So yes I now have concerns about the attitude behind the way that course was being presented. I was personally deeply concerned about the wisdom of her just abandoning all her medical treatments, which from what I could see seemed to be working and so I wondered if God was using that medical treatment to bring her healing. However she was not just a friend - she was my Pastor's wife and in leadership herself so I felt unsure about challenging her decisions (to abandon her medical treatments). I know that there is not any direct teaching that says "don't use medical treatments" but there is definitely a subtle message that says "you are not in faith if you go to a doctor" simply by examples and I would assume that this is also being taught in the Bible College.
I don't like bad mouthing anyone and try to really look for the good in everyone but there has been something just not sitting right in my spirit for a while about all of this experience, amongst other issues I have also observed along the way too; and yes it is not just about us personally, but about the deeply vulnerable and hurting who might reach out to this ministry but then be exploited or hurt even more deeply so this most definitely needs to be seriously addressed.
Thank you too for sharing your amazing testimony about your 2 boys - it was so deeply encouraging as I have a similar issue going on with an adult daughter who has recently been diagnosed with autism/adhd. Are you able to maybe share your testimony again somewhere here on this channel? I would love to relisten to it again.
God bless you and your lovely family richly
I have never heard a suggestion to not go to a doctor. I had stage four Merkel cancer, and it was a death sentence. What sustained me was filling myself with the word regarding healing and very importantly, resisting fear. I'm cancer free today due to the teachings of Andrew Womack, Kenneth Copeland, ministries, and numerous other word of Faith ministries. I did go to the doctor and had the tumor removed. I never felt a bit of shame about it or any shame accusations from them. But I am cancer free today due to the teachings of these ministries. you cannot put your faith on someone else's healing or non-healing. You do not know what goes on in their day-to-day life. Only that person and the Holy Spirit know. Also, because healing is a battle many times, if you know Jesus and love him, you may be tempted to say, just take me home, Jesus. But I did not do that because we were due to have our first grandchild. What I did find was the truth of 'death. Where is your victory grave where is your sting?' Do not look to any ministry to be perfect. Nor should your faith stand on their perfection or your friends healing.❤
PS-I did have 25 moderate radiation treatments. No chemo. Look up this cancer. It was a death sentence in 2013 especially at stage four.
@wannaduckfin I rejoice with you about your healing. Yes I know about that type of cancer. I am not against teaching about faith. Jesus praises faith all through Gospels. I am also not against any particular Word of Faith folk..Ive learnt lots from them myself over 24 years. I am however a bit concerned at SOME of the METHODS of teaching about faith and how some very vulnerable people can easily misunderstand what is being taught. I have personally heard Andrew W say he personally does not go to doctors - which is fine - Im just not sure why he needs to tell people this because people naturally follow leaders and so vulnerable people like my friend may misunderstand how God works.
I also avoid doctors where possible but I still believe God uses them too..and not closed off to God possibly directing me to go there.
So we can't put God in a one size fits all box - He definitely will use a doctor if it is part of His plan to bring healing to someone.
I also learnt (the hard way) many years ago to never put my faith in a person or a formula but only place it in Jesus and the Word of God - I understand that deeply. I guess what I am just trying to say is that LEADERS do need to exercise in wisdom when teaching about faith and to watch carefully over the flock to protect them from other sometimes well-meaning Christians who don't actually understand what faith really is and of course to also protect them from wolves in sheep's clothing - they unfortunately do exist in many churches.
@@Mrs-Resellyou articulated these insights so well 💜
I'm sorry for your loss. Charis does NOT teach that people should stop treatment or meds. In fact, a couple of years ago one of their instructors, Barry Bennett, got cancer and he went through chemo and stuff and wommack supported him and says to do the treatment if that's where your faith is at. They teach that we HAVE to listen to Holy Spirit to know what to do as healing is not a formula. Mayne your Pastor's wife followed someone else's healing journey when it wasn't her own. We don't know what happened there but it does not negate the word of God. I am another that was healed of incurable illness by Jesus through Wommacks teachings.
@@colesonamission thanks for your reply.
It may not be directly taught in Charis but Andrew W definitely HAS said in quite a few of his sermons (online) that he personally does not seek out doctors for healing. Yes that is his personal choice, but why even tell people that during his teachings or sermons when teaching about healing? People will look to him as a leader and an expert in healing and will want to follow his example, and Charis Bible College was founded by Andrew W.
I also knew about Barry Bennett's journey with cancer too. That also confused me at the time because he was such an avid teacher of living a life of Divine health and even he did say that he does not know why he got sick.
So anyway, I don't know what happened with my friend. I just know that she is in Glory now with Jesus and I will see her again. I have also since really changed my perspective about healing too. I understand that God does heal and people do get miraculously healed and rejoice with you that you are one them. I am just still on my journey with God about healing for now to try to understand His ways and the WHY that some people just do not receive healing so that it does not affect my relationship with God.
I too did receive a miraculous healing for something over 20 years ago and that was from meditating on God's Word..so God's Word is true that His Word is like medicine.
Thanks so much again for your reply. I really appreciate it and so thrilled that you have received miraculous healing too.
Shocking, heartbreaking, I have no words. I am angry and I am amazed how you are holding on.
I feel every bit of what you’re saying. I only attended one year, and while there were many good lectures, I never felt peace. Something always felt off. You have illustrated it perfectly. Although it has not been a very good experience, I am blessed to have met some really amazing fellow students, and volunteers who are now great friends. So many people go to Charis broken, looking for healing, love and support. Some of us are sensitive and feeling, but that is shamed, and it hurts to be judged by insensitive instructors. The last thing we need is Harsh, dismissive treatment, and then being told to not be offended., and “take your thumb out of your mouth“, and “Pull up your big boy/big girl, pants”. I feel these comments are disrespectful and unnecessary, but they are frequently used in lectures at Charis. I was shocked when I first heard these comments. I was expecting to feel more kindness, and love than what feels like bullying. Thanks for having the courage to speak up. I’m hoping to see some repentance and right action.
They get that from Andrew, who commonly says those things. There's a reason why some of his employees called him Android Wommack; he's robotic with no real emotions.
I, too, get turned off when he says things like "Pull your thumb out of your mouth and grow up!" It's very insensitive to what people are going through.
And have you ever wondered why you never hear from his wife or sons? I think there are a lot of secrets behind closed doors that make them avoid the limelight.
@WheelEstate
Exactly! I had the same questions. I think all this is much deeper and much darker than we think.
I'm sure there must be some serious problems at the Bible College, but I think it's quite dangerous to be discussing it in this way on social media. I don't think any good can come of this. None of us are perfect, not that that gives anyone an excuse to treat others unkindly, but I'm just sure that all of this communucation and then speculation about other things that might be wrong, comments about Andrew Wommack, his family, making judgements on people's motives - this is all very dangerous. I just see it going down a dark hole. I'm so sorry that things have gone so badly and there hasn't been an opportunity for the injured parties to speak to those directly involved. I'll be praying that the Lord will make a way for things to be resolved in a wholesome manner. Social media has many benefits but it has a dark side too, and all of this discussion with so many people is more likely to lead to more hurt. I think the less people involved in the discussion the better. The enemy loves to turn believers against each other and will be happy to do as much damage as possible to the ministry.
This is so terribly sad.
Bible College isn't the right place for people who are still very broken and vulnerable.
@@WheelEstate There is a disturbing lack of empathy manifesting in the amount of victim blaming and shaming being actually tought from the very top! A light is being shone however. We’ll see.
@@annamachalska762 I believe you are right.
I went to a church he was at and he had a word of knowledge and I got healed. Keep with the Holy Spirit and the gifts God has given you.
God bless you Deborah. I could go on and on about some of these ministries that have gone off the rails with their doctrine of man and we see everyday the pitfalls and in some cases heir downfalls because of the cares, deceitfulness of riches and the lust of other things entering in choke the actual word of God and become untruthful, for love has no ill will toward thy neighbor. Yes, there should be structure in a church but not to the point of blind obedience to corruptible men and if Charis College leaders do not know this, then woes will befall them. As a steward of the faith, you have done the right thing every step of the way. 1 thess 5 22 tells us to abstain from ALL appearance of evil and by using this platform to warn people, you are fufilling this scripture as well as the others thst you spoke about in reference to your other videos. God bless you and your family, love from a brother in Christ.
Well said.
Thank you so much Deborah. I know this can’t have been easy. I really hope they do pay attention. We’ve been followers and supporters of the ministry for years. We did the first year correspondence in the uk and were thinking of doing the second year at some point, but this will be put on hold until I hear there is some change. Our support may well be withdrawn too based on your testimony. If you could get anyone else to speak up it would help, I think. Would anyone come on your channel and share their experience? Xx
I can confirm everything Deborah says as I am a 3 rd year grad and saw it with my own eyes as well as did my husband, our children and many co-students . Any concerns raised were also shut down. When jezebel rules and reigns there has to be an Ahab that enables it.
@@cathyB3713 thank you. I do completely believe and I will pray and consider what to do next. I just mean for others sake and to bring them to account it would be helpful to have other testimonies. “In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses…” Deuteronomy 19:15/1 Corinthians 13:1
I can confirm that the current dean of students is a police officer. He is very prideful and he is actively hunting people who don't meet Charis' "standards". Other students that we have talked to have also been kicked out and he has played a role in that.
@@cathyB3713 ty for weighing in on this. Would you consider doing a quick video on your channel? Downloaded a couple of your playlists. Blessings to ya 🙏
@catherinemilici14 Wow. Sad thing. How is Jesus honored? You live in Woodland Park? I had at one point thought of attending Charis. Not now. Still dealing with Lyme disease symptoms but still believe in healing. Blessings to you 🙏
This is shocking 😕. Well done for being brave enough to speak out about your experience, and the experiences of other victims.
It is so easy for controlling so-called 'Christians' (CINO's - Christian In Name Only) to manipulate those who truly want to follow Jesus, by using scripture out of context or by putting a certain spin on it in order to condemn and keep people controlled, especially new Christians.
That's why it is SO important to know God's Word for ourselves, only then are we in a position to know when Scriptures are wrongly 'used' to deceive or control.
May God bless you and heal you & your son, and everyone else who has been traumatised by CINO's in their Christian walk 🙏
Hierarchy is incredibly dangerous in a faith community.
It"t Nicolaiatism. Just study the Roman Catholic Church.
But ultimately, isn't hierarchy necessary. There has to be structure and order and we have to come under authority. That's just part of life. Everyone can't be leading and making all the decisions. Not that that justifies any wrong behaviour.
@@ruth6110 Having systems, order and leadership is very different to putting people on pedestals, making certain individuals more important than others, giving leaders inordinate power to dictate to those they lead, and making leaders above accountability.
@@SteppingOut957
How do you stop people from putting others on pedestals?
@@ruth6110 when you stop being more interested in “filming “ than you do actually being in ministry. Blind eyes are turned in order to become a world class production school. The main thing is no longer the main thing, unfortunately.
I have noticed the change also. Praying for you and your beautiful family ❤
Any ministry or organization that grows as rapidly as Charis has, bears the hazards associated with exponential growth. Persecution came upon the early church because they were all staying in Jerusalem and not going into all the world to preach the Gospel. Small groups are really where its supposed to be. Once you get TOO BIG its hard to manage because all born again Christians are still in the flesh. That's why Jesus preached no condemnation, no judgement, and constant forgiveness. By this shall all men know you are MY disciples, if you have love for one another. Where envying and strife are, there is every evil work. Satan is at work to cause dissension. He is a wiley foe. He is constantly walking about, seeking WHOM he may devour.
Bigger is not always better. It's growth, growth, growth, and money all the time.
Interesting explanation
I want to preface my comment with the fact that this is said gently, and with calm, not anger.I have been blessed tremendously and have recovered much of my life through Andrews teachings. For you to go out and say his ministry is a cult is a very serious accusation. Also, you are listening to someone who isn't even a Christian, who isn't born again, in the psychiatrist from what I could see about him he is Jewish and studied at a very secular university. Using many ungodly principles. Not saying you are wrong or right. I don't know you. However, My daughter attends Charis and works for Andrew and loves it. You are correct that perspective is everything. AWMI is a blessing. He is still a man and people make mistakes. I have seen way to many healings and the power of God to believe otherwise and I learned it from this ministry via the Holy Spirit.
Yes 100%. The devil is trying to bring down a ministry that is impacting the world. We have pastors who travel with Andrew and they are amazing Word based. Our church doesn’t even have membership because they feel it is unbiblical. Andrew encourages people to grow in the Word and walk in freedom. This ministry is the total opposite of a cult. This woman is so offended because she had certain expectations that weren’t met. Now she is slandering the ministry. There is no reason for her to post these “events” other than the fact that she wants revenge.
pray for discernment and allow the Holy Spirit to show you anything that might be unhealthy even evil that's going on
Are you speaking of current events or past events? What she is describing is witchcraft through others employed there in positions of authority and teaching. There is a problem. Your daughter may be unaware, deceived by the person or persons, or in a place of protection, separated from this attack. As a 72 year old Intercessor, I have witnessed similar events in other ministries, some now defunct because they would not listen to the alarms being sounded.
Remember what you receive from God comes from God though He may use a vessel to deliver it. Give God the glory, not man.
@@donnaleveron5711 amen! Fully aware and fully Alive! Jesus is awesome! Thanks for the comment. We all need to be reminded that it's Him living through us not us living for Him
Thank you for what u are doing.
Hello. I respect your pain and I hope you can be healed from this because after 3 years you still hurted about it.
My testemony being last 2 years in Charis is I don't see any of these abuses, manipulations, etc. and I have being manipulated from leadership in my church in the past, I know what is it. One bad experience can not speak for all place and all people there. Not just Andrew but the insctructors have being a blessing for all of us there. Another thing about promotion of the people that hurted you. People can change, no one is perfect. Is not because the person did one mistake is condemned to do the same the rest of her life, they need to be forgiven. Charis is a blessed place, I am totally aware with ministries that manipulate people for my own experiences in many nations... Charis is not. People need to have their own experiences and will see that Charis is one of the most blessed places in the world. Let people discover by themselves if it is truth. There is no children going to study in Charis, why all this in internet? The Most of people I see today complaining about Charis has personal problems that is not about Charis, is about themselves and instead to try to be healed from their deceptions and frustrations they always find someone or something to blame. But this is all around the world. Christians change from church everytime because they found one thing they didn't like. So in the next church it happens the same. That is sad. And it is dangerous to read a book about manipulation and start to connect your pain with what you are feeding yourself and blame the whole place by you own thinking that is not the reality.
just because you did not see it or experience it does not means it is not there ; if you go through the comments there are many many that have seen like Deborah . Thankfully her son got free from it all !! As a person who has been manipulated yourself it is even more shocking that you can tell another person what happened to them is a lie
So thankful for Charis Bible College. It changed my life!
Your experiences don’t equate to others experiences nor do they nullify abuses nor injustices.
My CBC SA totally great experience. Haleluyah🙌🏽. Being born again doesnt mean being perfect we are all flesh and human. Sorry for your experiences. Lets not dim those like me that have only had great and warm experiences at AWM and CBC🙏🏽
I think you’re missing her point. She also said her son Timothy went years prior and had a great experience
She is calling out abuses. There are those that were likely “dimmed” as you say from their experience at Charis.
"Being born again doesn't mean being perfect we are all flesh and human." - So should we excuse people of their actions, however heinous they are, because they are imperfect humans? A convenient argument for those who want to abdicate responsibility and accountability.
"Lets not dim those like me that have only had great and warm experience at AWM and CBC." - Deborah isn't talking about you. Just because you had a good time doesn't mean it shouldn't be scrutinized when issues and abuses are brought to light.
@@MManAt56 Wud be great if her videos stop popping on my notifications, AWESOME AND WARM CBC is an understatement for my AWM CBC experience over the years Haleluyah👏🏽
@@ngomusacherncy8432 You can turn notifications off -- no one is forcing you to watch this. It's great that you had an awesome time at CBC, I'm not saying it isn't -- but it isn't an argument to invalidate other people's negative experiences.
19:28 “It’s very important that the victim get their act together here” lol the second time I listen through Carrie’s response to your son’s question, is really funny.
Dear Deborah! THANK YOU for sharing your concerns with us, your audience ❤. AWMI can definitely benefit and learn from some of the concerns that you mentioned. I was in the privileged position during my working career to manage a few incredibly wonderful employees as a manager, and I faltered often (and I learned so MUCH from my awesome colleagues about myself, their perspectives and my own limitations). My experience of AWMI is very positive. Andrews heart is pure and his teachings are anointed. Thank you, Jesus 😍! Are they w/o faults? No person or organization is perfect. We can ALWAYS learn and improve. What I appreciate about Andrew Wommack, is his love for the Word of God and his ability to explain the absolute Truth of God's Word in a practical and sound way. I am sorry for all your negative experiences with the management of AWMI, and pray that your love for God and his Word will sustain and carry you. The BEST is yet to come (Rev 21:1-6) ✝. Much love xxx
Andrew is a new age teacher that blasphemes the Bible and God and makes much of himself as a prophet and less of Christ. Wake up
I don't know what, but I felt like Deborah. Wanted to say more, then was she saying she said a lot a mouthful? But I , myself and I just feel so this more, she had to say.
Have you read the book, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by David Johnson and Jeff Vanvonderen?
I’ll order it!
This book helped me when I came out of a cult-ish church. I am so grateful to God for it.
Please let us know what you learn from the book.@@deborahmcdermott997
Andrew knows he couldn’t be bothered to fix it. He needs to keep the lights on by preaching about money so he can get more to feed this mess.
I had weird situation with Terradez ministries, they are REALLY close with Andrew. I commented on their videos about animal abuse they are committing on their videos. For example dragging crocodile by the leash while he has mouth wraped with tape. They blocked me :D
With all due respect I would probably block you too. They are busy trying to spread the Gospel and help change lives. They don’t have time to respond to people who just want to find fault. Who would???
@@magdalebel6092Troll much?? Wow, you’re so “offended” by everyone 😅
@magdalebel6092
You are full of anger lady. If you don't stand up for the weak ones that speaks a lot about you. They are busy: WITH THEIR CELEBRITY STATUS. That is for sure :)
@@magdalebel6092 what a prideful response ! the gospel is about people , so blocking people is opposing the gospel . Typical prideful Charis response .I agree with the chasing of celebrity status Anna mentions in another comment. busy busy rubbing shoulders with all the big guns and no discernment as to what is the spirit behind many christian celebraties
@@annamachalska762perfectly articulated! That brings me to remembrance of when I wanted to buy their book, they asked if I wanted a bag which displayed their name. She said she was running out of bags but would give me one anyway because it was good advertisement for their stuff. I thought, huh? Seemed awfully strange at the time. Now it all makes sense!
Dear Deborah, my Sister in Christ Jesus, GOD Bless you and your family, for your Beautiful Compassionate Heart, in Sharing The TRUTH❤️🎚️🕊️in LOVE
What you have Shared, i have been Seeing, for the last 4yrs.
(the enemy has crept in unaware>Jude 4.
it has been infiltrated💔😓)
i Believe we must pray for Andrew and Jamie, for Father GOD to Show them, and Remind them, Deep to Deep in their heart, Whom and What was the Foundation and Motivation of "What" Charis was originally ALL About❤️
EVERYONE IS IN MY HEART AND PRAYERS
❤️🙏🎚️🕊️❤️
p.s. Through death (almost 9 1/2yrs ago), Jesus found me and led me to The Gospel Truth. i've been getting to Know Him, ever since; and continuing to❤️
Respectfully, in Truth and in Love, i haven't been able to watch awmi in a long time now, because of how fake they have gotten💔😓
(it's gotten so bad, that i was even led to stop Partnering :(
It Truly is heartbreaking, for it used to be centered around The TRUTH❤️🎚️🕊️in LOVE with Compassion
Maybe i'll go back and Listen to the older Messages, that actually Helped my heart.
idk.. i'm going to continue to Seek The Lord on this, and with every single thing.
@@jesuschristismylordforevermoreThe best thing is to read, study, and listen to the Word of God. The washing of the water of the Word cleanses us and prepares us for Jesus. Ephesians 5:25-26.
@@donnaleveron5711
YES & AMEN❤️
(Through 'death' for almost 9 1/2yrs, Above and Beyond "all i thought i knew; and this body screaming otherwise. Not to mention the persecution for Believing.
Makes me want to Know HIM, more and more, Who HE Is❤️and Share HIM, In TRUTH And In LOVE
Unfortunately, most are so carnal, they do not Understand, and get mad, and offended (they take it upside down :( ...it is utterly 💔, though, i Love them, unconditionally
(we do not wrestle against flesh and blood... Yet, through GOD's Kind of LOVE)
i See where some, whom are the most deceived, want to 'do' horrific things, to Believers😓
(they guise as 'light').
So much has been infiltrated, though most have No clue😓
(Not even the 'elect').
That is why...
EVERYONE IS IN MY HEART AND PRAYERS
❤️🙏🎚️🕊️❤️
I love Deborah's book! I've read it over many times and will continue to do so.
So, as I say this, please don't stone me! I don't think any of us should jump to conclusions here. We must remember we are only hearing one side of the story...and like it or not, we are hearing it through the filter of hurt and pain.
I'm not suggesting Deborah's being dishonest, quite the opposite. But there are two sides to every story.
We love Andrew Wommack Ministries and will continue to support him, especially in light of 2 Timothy 3:14 (read that in the NLT and MSG!!). I'm sorry the world has to witness our fussing amongst ourselves.
I pray for both sides. That the Holy Spirit will guide into all truth and heal broken hearts and bring change wherever it is needed...on either side.
Amen🙏
do some research on the jezebel spirit and what happens when it infiltrates a ministry REV 2: 20-24 . Our fam. was utterly shocked as we watched this spirit come into Charis in 2015 during our 3 rd yr ( so we knew the ministry very wee before it happened) and take over more yr by yr . The trail of destruction is huge and the Word is twisted as it is not the HS . There are many many who have reached out, spoken up including myself but all is shut down and it is Pride . For jez. to rule and reign there has to be an Ahab allowing it all
Well said, thank you!
This is not "fussing amongst ourselves", and who cares what the world thinks? Keeping up appearances is a very worldly point of view. Life is messy for everyone from time to time. A little more openess and transparency would be a good start from "the other side", but keeping it quiet and sweeping under the carpet only allows it to worsen. Light needs to be brought into the situation in order for correction and healing.
It will not end well if this is not dealt with forthrightly and openly for the Body to see.
Actually there are 3 sides to a story. Your side, my side and then the truth. Have you been there? I have and what she says lines up. The word tells us to not allow anyone to deceive us so it’s important to pray and seek the truth.
Do you know what an advocate is? Would you give the same advice to a child who is being sexually abused? Would you say, “oh, that’s her side of the story “. No! We have a due diligence to seek the truth.
And again I will share what we are supposed to be doing what they don’t share in the church
”“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”“
Matthew 18:15-20 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/mat.18.15-20.NKJV
Jesus said that. I challenge you to seek out truth, defend the weak like God’s word tells us.
Deborah I met you 3 yrs running in Telford. You are a lovely person and SOO brave. My dad often told me to see these things, which in time I did. I totally lost all faith. Pastors ask you to tithe and are never off an airplane. When you are a no body in the church you observe what really is going on. They don’t care to hide it from you. Everything you are saying is true and I believe you have only opened the flood gates. Many will come forward with similar experience. Love to you and your family, keep brave and keep true
Sister
I applaud you for your courage to stand for
what this really is. You are correct in giving the recognition of this being unbiblical, backwards and upside down.
It is good that you are speaking of it
to make others aware
that they have a right to question.
Here is what I know.
There will be a shaking.
God judges His house FIRST.
and at that shaking in God’s judgment,
all of this will be highly and openly exposed
the truth will come out.
All the best to you dear sister.
Blessings. 🙏🏼❤️🕊🎚
Once again, thank you for speaking out, Mrs Deborah. I’m assuming that your “friends” from the healing community and Healing Journeys Today have distanced themselves from you or ignored your story. Because they are still promoting AWMI and Charis, even to this day. I’m sorry to see that, but I and others stand with you. Those who support corruption and abuse will be held accountable one day. They do not really have the Holy Spirit, nor do they follow the true Christ. You will know them by their fruits…
You are taking up her offense and her side which is wrong. Charis is a great Bible school and because others do not support her doesn’t make them wrong. Perhaps satan is using her. You should be very careful about getting involved in her perceptions and offense.
@@magdalebel6092 perhaps everything she is saying is truth. Just because you don’t support her doesn’t make her wrong. Perhaps Satan is using certain people in Charis Bible school, or perhaps even yourself.
Oh Dear, I won't support ministry that manipulate, ostracize, shame, blame and is greedy :) oh, most importantly ministry that never stood up for the people that PAY FOR THEIR JOBS :) perhaps you are deceived and I will pray for you to see the truth. No worries, I got you.
Oh and btw since when taking up offense means SPEAKING UP about abuse? Charis washed ur brain with "offense" preaching. Next time when you will see someone harming another person don't react please, dont take offense ok? Great :)
@@annamachalska762 exactly!! I DO take “offense” to abuse and neglect, just like Jesus himself did and still does! Just like the laws do! It’s just another sign that AWMI and Charis do not follow the true Christ- while sitting back in their cushy, luxurious multi million dollar buildings and homes. What a joke! 🙄🙄
Thank you for speaking up. God Bless you....for trying to save the students and ministry... Best regards Teresa
That’s EXACTLY right, they are being policed. I was there for the first year and things seemed WAY WAY off. It seems very cultish. This saddens me because I find value in the basic teachings of Andrew’s
I believe you, 100%. I also think that it might be because you come from a country where hierarchy is not as pronounced. And so, you are more quick to notice abuses.
I thought this also , well said !
Please ask the Lord about writing another book to help the people who are not getting healed and help others to stand in faith for days , months with out seeing a physical manifestation sister Deborah. God Bless 💕✝
Its why Jesus never started massive universities, no celeb status, only house to house churches. He Himself went and washed the feet of ordinary humans...and than to top it off , died for us...talk ab sample of leadership.
Prayin for these ppl,( elevated leaders) its a though place to b in....🙏 For they hv to answer to Jesus Himself the same as all, at the end.🙏
Yes He just started a Kingdom.
Those who love God, hate abuse…just as God does (Psalm 11:5). Those who love God don’t call an abuser a covenant partner, they call them a covenant destroyer. Those who love God, those who understand God’s plans to prosper and not to harm us, don’t ask the abuse victim what more they can do to fix the abuser, they ask what they can do to help them escape from the abuser. Those who love God, love God’s commandment: “Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked” (Psalm 82:3-4).
I think there's a subtle legalism there. A works mentality that is not easy to detect. But legalism is a sure way to stop the flow of the power of God.
Ironically, Andrew is pretty big on legalism. He'll just never say it explicitly. But you can tell by his teachings. For every truth about Grace, there's a set of works he teaches you must do to experience that truth.
@@WheelEstate I've noticed that too. Like the teaching on getting rid of unbelief. Works-based teaching makes faith into a work. "Get more faith. Get perfect faith." He says that your problem is not that, but your unbelief. So instead of working to get perfect faith. Just work to get rid of your unbelief. Same works-based teaching. I realised that something was wrong when I was wracking my brain trying to get rid of my unbelief. Then I heard that familiar voice of the Holy Spirit saying to me, "Don't worry about your unbelief". It freed me.
@@SteppingOut957 Right. I'm starting to understand that Jesus believed perfectly for us and we can just surrender to that. Holy Spirit helps us to surrender to and believe in what Jesus did, and we are treated as if we surrendered and believed on our own.
I find it impossible to generate faith on my own, get rid of doubts, get rid of unbelief, surrender, etc. Only Holy Spirit can give me the ability to do any of that.
Plus, none of the teachers ever define what doubt and unbelief are. If I Google a symptom, am I in unbelief? If I have one negative thought about my situation, am I in doubt? It's so subjective and impossible to avoid.
@@WheelEstate Whenever I ask myself, am I in doubt? I just conclude that the answer is yes. "Do I have a fault in this or that area?". I just conclude that yes, I do. "Have I done enough?". No. "Do I have enough faith?". No. I've written myself off in that regard. I've concluded that I need Jesus and His merits. I need a Saviour every time. It's not easy and I struggle, but I am unlearning my works. I sometimes get drawn back to subtly legalistic teachings because of the need of my situation. But, I am slowly learning to let these go and to allow myself to trust solely on the grace of God. It's so hard. But I have asked God to deliver from my works. It's slowly happening. Sometimes I think its too slow. But I can see changes in my thinking and how I relate to God. The only person that I can safely listen to where I know I will receive pure grace is Joseph Prince.
@@SteppingOut957 this is so awesome to read . We have had our eyes opened too to the underlying legalism at Charis that always puts focus back on us instead of pointing to Jesus . He is our Saviour and says us day to day from all situations !! PTL
Can anyone tell me if all those healing journeys videos were both genuine AND represented the full truth of Andrew's involvement please? I am trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I have most of his books, watched very many hours of his programmes, done all both he and Barry Bennett said to do, but still no results. God has made it very clear there is an issue of having faith in faith itself here, rather than faith in Him, but Ive also read the Colorado newspaper articles where one staff member said he had not seen ONE healing in 7 years there.
I had stage four Merkel cancer in 2013. That was a death sentence because there was no known cure to the extremely aggressive Merkel. I can only speak for myself. It was the teachings of Andrew Womack, Kenneth Copeland, ministries, and many of the other word of Faith ministries that supported me and taught me the pure word of God. If it had not been for the teachings of those ministries, I would've been dead a long time ago. I was never discouraged from going to surgery, or having moderate radiation treatments. I will be forever grateful for all the labor of these ministries because of their teachings concerning healing, and what the scriptures say. I was not a student at Charis. However, I would caution anyone from putting their faith in someone else's healing journey or experience. ❤
I bet you can keep teaching , you were good at it, I remember you on HJT teaching for a season. It was good. Keep doing it Deborah.
Yes, I agree. She is a great teacher.
Thank you for speaking up and addressing the issue of healing. I think that is why so many, including myself, are drawn to Andrew’s ministry.
Jesus is the Healer, seek Him.
1 Peter 2:24
The halls are full of love and it is absolutely a safe place...Jesus is there!
Is she lying about what happened in her class then? The Bible says false teachers will try to infiltrate Christian communities. Could this be happening at Charis?
This is why we must know God and his word ,and the truth will an has set you free
I just hope that you don’t forget how God led you to Charis Bible College and your children were healed. Your journey inspired me! I shared it a lot. The devil is definitely trying to use your voice against the whole school. Because of some poor leadership which everyone comes across at one time in their life, people are flawed and some are narcissistic, depending whether they’re Christian or not, but I pray that you deeply go into healing with the Lord and not keep putting these videos out. I do not believe it’s going to help other people who are sick And do continue to believe for their healing. Charis is a school that helps people hear the word of God for themselves and often yes some are not healed, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good place still to go. Healing works by love 100% right. Not everyone has the same heart and you sound very scorned. I’m sorry for that. I hope you find peace. God bless you Deborah.
So turn a blind eye to truth is your approach. Spineless Christians are part of the problem in the modern church. I guess you go along to get along.
Maybe God is trying to use her voice to protect people from these narcissistic leaders? The people she talks about are in top leadership positions at AWMI, should the growing corruption be ignored if we really care about the health of the ministry longterm?
Discipline is required in discipleship, no doubt.
Andrew is not one who heals.
If people in chairs is not getting healed, it makes sense that they have knowledge problem.
I am out of charis.
By just listening to Andrew's teachings, reading scriptures I am healed from chronic stomach pain, psoriasis and so so many sicknesses.
Norman Vincent Peale wrote the book the Power of Positive Thinking that WOF love to preach and teach on. He was a heretic, embraced Mormonism, and was a 33rd degree Mason. He mixed christianity with Psychology. Womack and the clan teach his doctrines and I challenge anyone who disagrees to look him up. WOF uses texts out of context to confirm their teachings all the time. Read the Word in context and you will not be deceived. I was in WOF for over a decade and the Lord showed me how deceptive this practice and teaching is.
run away... run now .. cult ...go.... 🎉
Thank you for your honesty! I have wondered after listening to some of the teachings!
The beginning teachings are great! Something has changed though. The Holy Spirit will guide you
I have attended Charis Bible College. I did not have this experience at all.
I think there are personalities that can not handle this college. I understand this, if its not for you, its not for you. No big deal.
Sorry you had this experience, I wish it had been different for you.
I loved it though. I hope and pray you find your way Deborah God bless.
It seems that if it was a Bible college teaching the full council of Gods word, and especially love, that personality should not matter….that all would be welcome and treated like the Bible instructs us to………dont u think?
I have to say i am absolutely shocked to be hearing about all this at Charis u just dont know what to say or how to quite deal with all this information
You listen objectively, asking the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you.
I thought your intent was to just share your personal experience about the course you took at that campus during one semester. However, now you are spreading negative comments from other students who’ve subsequently contacted you - and now it’s about the entire ministry and how they run their school. Andrew was gracious in his response to you, refunded your tuition, and changed the coursework for that department going forward you said. Let it go and take back your peace.
She has every right to cautioned people about the experience that she received during her stay as a student there.
Also important to remember that a story has 2 sides.
And the money keep rolling on...
Poor and ill people are sponsoring them. It is a business!
Andrew lives in a very modest home. He dresses very modestly. He is one of the most down to earth men. He isn’t flashy and flying in private jets. He puts the money into the ministry. He takes care of his employees. This is one ministry that doesn’t live that way. The ministry is not a cult. We know several people associated with the ministry and these are just lies being put out on TH-cam. This lady obviously is offended and is now a slanderer and a gossip. Things may have happened but she has her perception and others may have a different perception. It is wrong to do what she is doing . I will never listen to any of her teachings because she has no credibility.
@@magdalebel6092 I just listend to AW himself and read some of his stuff and saw the campus...
'Mark and avoid' as 1st Thess says. He is a false teacher.
His 'modesty' is a facade; wait till he opens his mouth... people shrivel up and shiver. No! And these are not demons! I talk about born again people who study and read The Word.
@magdalebel6092
Who sent you here? AWM staff?
You acting like you are offended :)
We are not spiritually blind to believe in modesty of Andrew :) I don't deny he is good man but for sure he got lost a long time ago. Don't even try to shame Deborah here. We don't care if you don't trust her. You didn't came here to support but to shame and blame the victim. Like all toxic people do :)
@@magdalebel6092Titus 2:3, as an aged woman, 72 yrs, believer 45 yrs, I am going to advise you to hold your tongue. Stop accusing brethren and listen objectively to what is said, asking the Holy Spirit to lead you into all truth. Do you follow Jesus or man? Paul admonished believers to follow him as he followed Christ. Those in ministry are just as vulnerable to the wiles of the devil as the rest of us. Also satan sends in his emissaries to disrupt and cause harm to the little ones (young believers). The acts described are witchcraft, manipulation, deceit, etc. And likely being used on the leaders as well as the students. Pray for understanding and watch what is happening.
I am sad too. I am quite disabled and am growing weary too.
❤️🩹 I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Receiving from God seems impossible, despite the simplicity of the message being taught. So I understand your frustration and dismay. At this point, I don't know what else to do or not do in order to experience finished work realities.
Same for me. It seems so close but yet so far. Finally, after many years I am relying only on God. No preacher, evangelist, just God. I am tired of healing teachings.
@@annamachalska762 Amen! Healing teachings can inadvertently become idols. They can cause us to constantly chase new revelations.
@@WheelEstate or make us constantly feel like we need more revelation
@@cathyB3713 Exactly. That's where I am. And despite my knowing this, I keep going back to the healing teachings because "what if this time is the time I'll finally discover the missing link?" It's self-torture, really.
Thank you, Deborah!! I am shocked!! Is there no healing? Is everything what Andrew tought in the serie God wants you well not true??
From what I heard there are some healings but not around Charis students and I believe there is not much healings in general but they portrait it as it is to drawn people to Charis. New members means money :)
You can receive ur healing without coming to Charis.
@@annamachalska762 do you think you can recieve healing at home? But how?
Yes, you can. We all can. We are all the same but people are not feeling worthy so they travel to big mega churches for healing. Do you received Holy Spirit Baptism? Holy Spirit will lead you. I personally started focusing on relationship with God. Just walking and talking with him day to day. Somethimes it takes time to receive God's Love for us but it is worth it. Love heals :)
@@annamachalska762 are we looking for healing or Jesus the Christ? We want signs and wonders (like the Jews in the gospels) or just Him; The Way, The Truth and The Life?
@@donajohanna I don’t think that seeking healing is the same thing as seeking signs and wonders in the way that you are referring to. Jesus healed all manners of sickness, disease and oppression of the devil. There are many instances of this in the gospels and he wants us to be free and delivered. This is not the signs and wonders that Jesus was talking about. Healing is a huge part of Andrew’s teachings and ministry or at least it used to be. This is why so many people are drawn to this ministry to help receive from Jesus. That is evident given the dedicated emphasis of the healing journeys available on the AWMI site. I suspect you have not been challenged with a years long chronic illness as many have. If so, forgive me for being presumptive but it seems you are missing the point.
Really sad listening to this.
Is all the teaching a fake? I am very discouraged! Why they wear glasses if they have a relevation of healing? Do they teach something they dont belief?
I personally don’t think it’s fake. I do think ministries can get too big for their britches and priorities change. I hope they reevaluate the situation to see if they’ve gotten off track.
Everything at AWM and CBC is based on scripture. Its sad when a few pple get offtrack and possibly dim the overall positive impact of this ministry. Hopefully her concerns can be addressed and she gets much needed peace including anyone else who had negative experiences.
Why on Earth would you judge the truth of the Word of God by the fact that a preacher has glasses?! 😂. Please just open your Bible and read and ask the Lord to open it to you , if you are going about the Christian life by way of if someone has glasses or not
No, I don’t think this teaching is fake. I’ve learned much from it. But the Bible says false teachers will try to infiltrate Christian communities, and these people must be stopped or else they do damage to the whole ministry.
Most big ministries care more about "the ministry" than the people. It is wrong.
Charis is a BIBLE College, those who attend are there to prepare for ministry. We live in a very "touchy, feely" generation. My humble suggestion is that you talk to God about the things you are describing rather than being a detractor. I'm sorry that you have apparently suffered some "injustices" Remember that "sowing discord among brethren" is one of the seven abominations to the Lord. You may want to start a private support group and pray that those leading the programs may see the situation from your viewpoint. Many times things get overlooked. Remember that there is therefore NO Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. We are admonished to beware of pride as it was the first sin and originated in heaven with Lucifer. Disaffection is a subtle sin, we are to be watchful for our adversary, the devil, walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. We must resist him steadfast in the faith. Be blessed !
"We live in a very "touchy, feely" generation." - That does not mean everyone's emotions are invalid.
"My humble suggestion is that you talk to God about the things you are describing rather than being a detractor." - Since when did raising awareness of abuse turn into "detracting"? By this same standard, we could also call Cindy Clemishire a "detractor" of Robert Morris and Gateway Church, but we aren't going to, are we, because she was right all along. Or the victims of Ravi Zacharais?
"Remember that "sowing discord among brethren" is one of the seven abominations to the Lord." - This is passive-aggressive fear-mongering. If raising awareness of abuse is deemed "sowing discord among the brethren" than you might as well roll out the red carpet for the Devil to have a party in the Church because he's gaslighted people into staying quiet about actual issues for fear of being branded as "sowing discord". Pathetic.
"You may want to start a private support group and pray that those leading the programs may see the situation from your viewpoint." - So, "Keep Sweet and Pray?" A support group assumes a gathering of people who come together to help deal with their shared negative experiences related to a particular entity. And therefore, "by the testimony of two or three witnesses must any charge and every accusing statement be sustained and confirmed."
"Many times things get overlooked." - That is not an excuse for the things that do.
"Remember that there is therefore NO Condemnation in to those who are in Christ Jesus." - Again, this does not mean we do not hold people accountable for their actions, especially Christian Leaders, who should be the best of us and yet fall short almost every time. Righteous fury exists. Are we not called to hate evil?
"We are admonished to beware of pride as it was the first sin and originated in heaven from Lucifer." - What does this have to do with spiritual abuse at a Bible College? It's ironic to lecture Deborah about pride while writing a comment that comes across as preachy and holier-than-thou.
"Disaffection is a subtle sin, we are to be watchful for our adversary, the devil, walks about as roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." - Charis ostracises people that don't agree with them or that question them, so they are the disaffectionate ones. The Devil isn't just a roaring lion, he isn't stupid. He was the first of all liars, of all deceivers, all tricksters and flatterers. He will use these tactics to try and destroy the Church. And judging from the numerous Christian Leaders that have revealed as false prophets and doers of evil, well... Houston, we've got a problem.
@@MManAt56You are the type of person who misquote scripture just to gossip. Lol. The one thing I've learned about the "wolves in sheeps clothing" thing is... people that talk like you, labeling others as false this or that, simply because they believe a little differently... you're usually the wolf. Lol
@@BrandonBostonCreator Lol. Calling someone a "wolf in sheep's clothing" without refuting any of their actual arguments doesn't solve anything. And real wolves don't stand up and whistleblow abuse in Church, they enable it.
I would like to hear you respond to the actual examples of abuse she mentions. For example, repeatedly referring to students as “losers”. Is that ok for a Charis professor to do?
Deborah, believe in yourself. Your heart is your best friend. Your heart does not make mistakes because it is Love.
I don't think that is so biblical. We are emotional creatures and we can't always trust our feelings, that's why we need to rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. Our own minds and hearts can often lead us in the wrong direction.
I think it's best to only put that kind of confidence in God - definitely not in myself and not in other people.
@@ruth6110 the Holy Spirit resides in our Heart, which is the mind of Christ also, not the emotional heart. As the man think in his Heart, so is he also. The heart here is the seat of love, peace and joy from God.
I pray that you may prosper in all things, just as your soul prospers.
So, soul can prosper, the heart can prosper.
In the bible, there are 2 meanings of the heart. One is carnal like emotions, feelings inflicted by the enemy, one is the the seat of love, peace and joy, wisdom.
"Incline your ears to my sayings,
Keep them in your heart and meditate days and night. " That is what God said to...Joshua.
So, it depends on we talk about, carnal heart or the Spirit of God speaking to our heart ( Spirit).
I know what you talk about. I listen to the revelation of God. But if I do not feel peace in my heart, not my head, then I would not do it.
The mind is the flesh, carnal. But the mind of Christ speaks to our heart.
Thank you.
@@ruth6110 proverbs 4: 20-22 talks about the heart, the seat of love, peace, joy, wisdom, obedience to the teachings of the words of God. So, when we talk about heart, we need to make the distinction between the carnal mind, carnal heart where the enemy can inflict negative thoughts emotions to us, or we can talk about love, peace, joy in our heart where God resides, where the mind of Christ resides also. In Chinese medicine and characters ( written letters), the mind and the heart are the same character.
@@ruth6110
1 Samuel 14-7
So his armor bearer said to him, " Do all that is in your heart. Go then; here i am with you, according to your heart."
This is the heart that I am talking about.
No disrespect by this comment-But you sound really bitter, and your heart is hardened. Praying for you.
I disagree
If you really “love” people like you say you do then you should read 1 Corinthians 13. Spreading hate and discontent is never Godly.
Hate and discontent!? You're equating the raising of abuse within a Christian environment, a potential life-destroying problem, to "hate and discontent"? Of course she's "discontent", she has every reason to be given what she has outlined in these videos. But where's the hate? She isn't exactly cussing people out or calling for their execution.
Maybe Andrew and his staff should start with dealing with the discontent for starters. Unlike the apostle Paul Andrew is never content with the amount of money or influence he has and is always trying to make more and teach others to seek prosperity
@@jimmyharvey5400Gossip is a sin, darling. Lol.
@@BrandonBostonCreator it’s not gossip. Lolol It’s exposing. “Do not partner with the deeds of darkness but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11.” This is the word of the apostle Paul who’s far more reliable than Wommack.
@@BrandonBostonCreator is it really gossip to talk about unbiblical concepts like the Prosperity Gospel and “God wanting you filthy, stinking, dirty rich”? I’d rather someone had warned my family my about a wolf like Andrew years ago than worry about gossiping
It is all about business and money. I believe a lot go there for healing amd work on their spirit. It must not work😮😢
Deborah, please remember, this ministry was there for you and your family when you needed it most.
I believe that’s why she is addressing these issues. The ministry has apparently gotten off track.
yes she did say that and she said that her boys' experiences in the past were positive and full of love - she is addressing the issues that are currently happening NOW.
That doesn't absolve them of responsibility.
Deborah, did you find AWM/ Charis to ever misquote/ misinterpret (add or take away) from the written Word of God? Or didn't you like their style or how you were treated? In life we may not like various messengers who come to teach, or how they may treat us (I really disliked my drill sergeant, but he prepared me for battle & life, which I was grateful for in the end. Anyway, we must all consider, Matthew 7:3-5 (NIV): "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
Comparing military training to Bible college is kinda ridiculous. This scripture does not apply to the issues she is addressing.
Just wondering, but in regards to students who have been described as vulnerable, broken etc., perhaps the Charis Bible College wasn't the best place for them. I have struggled with an anxiety disorder for many years and I know I have a lot of emotional baggage. I truly love the Lord, but I don't think I'd have the fortitude to be in a strict kind of study environment right now. I need a lot of gentleness and kindness, and Charis is an educational establishment afterall. Perhaps students who are struggling with a lot of unresolved issues need a more gentle environment to start receiving the healing they require for their souls before going to Charis. Have you heard of Ellel Ministries? I think that kind of environment would be much better for people who need a lot of support.
@@justbrowsing8675actually I had mentioned this to the man who abused me at charis woodlandpark. I told him if I did wrong he could tell me on the spirit of gentleness but instead he barked on my face :(
Praying for you,Deborah. Reconciliation is the way to.go
Reconcile? Reconcile what? If you listened it is she that reached out numerous times only to be ostracized, blamed and shunned. It seems you did not understand the message.
according to Rev 2.20 reconciliation is not Gods way when dealing with jezebel
Reconciliation read: letting abuse run free and pretend as if nothing happened. Never :)
@@cathyB3713actually it isn't Jezebel, a Jezebel spirit is not scriptural, however a spirit of anti-Christ, witchcraft, lust, are named in the New Testament. Manipulation is a form of witchcraft and is in operation here.
I know that doctrine has made its rounds, but it is a doctrine of devils and man. Jesus never called a spirit by any Old Testament persons name, so neither should we. This was never taught or heard of 20 years ago, it's a false doctrine, put forth by someone who may have meant well but got it wrong. When Jesus asked the demoniac/ demons possessing him what is your name, and they/it replied Legion, for we are many, Jesus just commanded them/it to go. Demons lie, you cannot trust what they say.
I am seeing all kinds of teaching pop up about this or that OT person/spirit, totally unscriptural, and those should know better.
Andrew’s ministry has been such a blessing for us. None is perfect, but you are making huge statements to the public.
👍👍👍
I’ve watched all of these videos and yet to see what your main problem was besides you got a little cold and that the leadership doesn’t stop everything they’re doing and hit the sos button when you’re feelings are hurt.
Amen.
Oh, so double-standards, abuse of power, disregard of legit complaints, lying about working conditions, emotional manipulation and abuse, child abuse, unbiblical principles paraded as biblical principles and lack of accountability and responsibility = hurt feelings?
This comment is a blatant and unashamedly bold mis-representation of Deborah's story.
Was your screen on mute? Listen again and you will see the main problem(s)
@@MManAt56 child abuse!? For crying out loud your mad! Everything she is saying is dangerous to all ministries as anything and everything could be deemed “manipulation”. Students aren’t there to be in charge, they aren’t forced to be there, and they have to submit to the authority of the college if they wish to attend. Telling someone not to be offended isn’t manipulation it’s good advice and advice that should be chewed on!
@@jeffswenson4264
"Everything she is saying is dangerous to all ministries as anything and everything could be deemed "manipulation". -- Why is it dangerous to ministries -- is exposing the truth of what's actually going on within these "Christian" organisations dangerous? It would only be dangerous to these ministries if they didn't want anyone to know about their dirty laundry / skeletons in the closet. Yes, "anything and everything" could be "deemed" as manipulation, but not everything IS manipulation.
"Students aren't there to be in charge," -- True, but that isn't an excuse to mistreat them.
"they aren't forced to be there," -- True -- though keeping in mind some of the Students are desperate souls and CBC is their last hope in this life.
"and they have to submit to the authority of the college if they wish to attend." -- Again, true, but what if that same authority is ungodly, unbiblical and mistreats people?
"Telling someone not to be offended isn't manipulation it's good advice and advice that should be chewed on!" -- Telling someone not to be offended isn't inherently manipulative, but it can be -- I've seen it myself, where someone will be justifiably angry (offended) about a legit concern or issue, but then others will harp on about "not taking offense", which in their eyes is a cardinal sin just shy of blasphemy, and thus guilt-trip this person into not feeling angry and therefore not do anything about whatever legit issue they encountered -- because they don't want to be branded as "unforgiving" or "offended", which in their little culture might as well be treason.
I've seen manipulation, and it's always sweet, love-infused, perfume scented words mixed with honey and fresh herbs that all sounds nice and good -- but it's all to mask its untruthful, ungodly, rotten and festering core of wicked deceitfulness.
I have seen this type of experience in JGLM😢, so I grieved and carried on. I have only watched one video of Andrew Wommack and was horrified, he said christians who commit suicide go to heaven. 😮The Holy Spirit immediately gave me 3 scriptures against that teaching and I was so upset I commented on the video, that he should take that video down!!!
If Christians who commit suicide don't go to Heaven, then neither do Christians who lie to their kids about Santa Claus right before dying.
Hello there. I just read your comment. I haven't read anything in the Bible about those who commit suicide going to hell.
Committing suicide isn't the unpardonable sin. If we can be forgiven of all sins why is suicide any different. Many people commit suicide when their minds are feeling very disturbed. Only God knows what is in their hearts, and if they have truly committed their lives to Christ Jesus, why would He abandon them for making this terrible mistake?
I have never listened to this lady's videos about her disappointment with Charis before.
I'm feeling quite confused as I don't think anything is wrong with heirarchy. Don't we need to learn how to serve and how to come under authority? I don't know enough about her experiences but I feel a bit like why don't these people leave this Bible College if they hate it so much.
I do understand that we all need to be loved, but isn't it a College. When I went to university, I didn't expect by Tutors to look after me and I don't see why anyone would expect the leadership at the College to be responsible for the emotional wellbeing of their Students.
I'm very confused by what she's saying.
Maybe these students are not ready for Bible College yet. It sounds like the particular students she is speaking about need to be getting Christian counselling and emotional support before they'll be ready for the Charis teaching environment. If they need that much softly softly treatment, I don't think they'll be able to cope with such a structured environment. Perhaps they have a lot of deep rooted hurts that they still need to recover from. They sound like extremely sensitive people who need to be in a very protective environment and not at College.
Sorry if I'm sounding a bit harsh, but the type of emotional support that these students seem to need sounds more akin to personal therapy to me. I don't think you can realistically expect to get that kind of support from the College. Perhaps they have gone there with unrealistic expectations, in which case they are bound to end up with extreme disappointment. Only Jesus can meet all our needs, other people with always disappoint us.
@@ruth6110 to respond - I would ask if you understand that depression is demonic? Suicide is premeditated murder. The Holy Spirit told me that when Satan tempted Jesus to throw himself off the cliff, that it was wrong. We are not to tempt God. I know all this from first hand experience as I was told I had 4 kinds of depression and ptsd, was on psych meds for 20yrs, suicidal 3 times. But God delivered me, 10 yrs ago and those thoughts were not my own as I no longer have them. People who are depressed need deliverance. If it looks like kill steal destroy its a devil. We should die from old age. Or just be translated.
why are you doing this?
To help abused people.
Why not? I have friends that have been abused by Charis staff and teachers and they live in Colorado Springs and do not want to have anything to do with Charis.
Case in point: Daniel Amstutz, the Director of the Healing School, wears glasses lol. And so do many other Charis graduates who teach on healing. It's so ironic.
Exactly!
What does wearing glasses have anything to do with what God has said about healing? This comment is so weird.
@@SteppingOut957 Unless they're wearing fake glasses for fashion, they're wearing them to correct their vision problems. Isn't that something to be healed from?
@@WheelEstate Is what they teach about healing true or not? Is healing in the atonement? If so, what do I care whether or not the preacher is perfect in their experience? Is what they say true? That's what matters. If I look to a man to judge if God is true, I am in trouble. Because man is fallible and imperfect.
@@SteppingOut957 that's a great cliché answer.
You've made multiple videos of gossiping, in the comments so many are doing the same thing. I just glanced at the comments. A lot of the same people spreading hatered.
Simply, just leave the school or whatever instead of bashing people. You can misuse whatever verses you people like, but this is you seeming unhappy, so you're gathering together a bunch of other people who are unhappy with the school, just to trash people.
It's wrong. Period. And for the few that keep saying "victim shaming" or whatever, that's also a form of manipulation you people are using to keep people from saying good things about the ministry... it's in the comments.
Whatever you're trying to do with this is just wrong. If people there do bad stuff, they have to answer for that. But labeling the entire ministry the way you did is evil.
I know people who have never given a penny to them and have been blessed by this ministry. I certainly have been blessed and will keep being blessed.
We are all people. We might rub people the wrong way or not get along. But it does not bless God at all for you to do stuff like this... regardless how you frame it.
And the people in the comments saying terrible things, calling others "false prophets and wolves" those are usually the wolves. Lol.
"You've made multiple videos of gossiping, in the comments so many are doing the same thing. I just glanced at the comments. A lot of the same people spreading hatered." -- You consider the act of raising awareness of abuse, both physical and spiritual, gossiping? That attitude enables abuse to thrive and shames the victim into silence. Should the abused never speak up lest they accused of "gossiping"? Or is it only "gossiping" if you don't want it to be true?
"Simply, just leave the school or whatever instead of bashing people. You can misuse whatever verses you people like, but this is you seeming unhappy, so you're gathering together a bunch of other people who are unhappy with the school, just to trash people." -- Again, you redefine "raising awareness of abuse and its perpetrators" to "bashing". My previous point stands. And if people are unhappy, who are you to decide what their reasons are and whether they are justified or not? Also as an ex-student I can attest that Charis constantly misuses verses, especially when it comes to men and women in marriage.
"It's wrong. Period. And for the few that keep saying "victim shaming" or whatever, that's also a form of manipulation you people are using to keep people from saying good things about the ministry... it's in the comments. "
-- And I won't stop saying it. The irony of this is hilarious. To call the phrase "victim shaming" a form of manipulation is astonishing to me. No, I do not believe it stops people from sharing good things about the Ministry, it just so happens that when people DO share good things about the Ministry, they use it as an excuse to discredit the people who are raising awareness of the bad things in the Ministry.
"Whatever you're trying to do with this is just wrong. If people there do bad stuff, they have to answer for that. But labelling the entire ministry the way you did is evil."
-- But people like you ensure that they DON'T answer for the bad things they do because its denied that they did anything wrong to begin with and the people that say otherwise are "gossipers" or are "bashing people". I dare say not standing up for weak and vulnerable, which most abused people are, is evil. And if the Ministry enables those things to happen, it deserves to be labelled as such. (Not saying the Ministry IS evil, but has done evil things.)
"I know people who have never given a penny to them and have been blessed by this ministry. I certainly have been blessed and will keep being blessed."
-- There is nothing wrong with that. Indeed it is a blessing to many, many people, yourself included. But that fact mustn't become an excuse to justify the Ministry's actions that DON'T bless people but instead hurt them through abuse.
"We are people. We might rub people the wrong way or not get along. But it does not bless God at all for you to do this... regardless how you frame it."
-- If raising awareness of abuse and trying to combat it in order to protect people from hurt does not bless God, then I don't think we believe in the same God. What kind of psycho pulls the God card to discourage bringing about awareness of abuse and tries to discredit the whistleblowers.
"And the people in the comments saying terrible things, calling others "false prophets and wolves", those are usually the wolves. Lol.
-- Ah yes, because no one accused of being a false prophet or a wolf in sheep's clothing has ever been exactly what they were accused of being. (Sarcasm detected) Again, victim shaming by twisting the narrative around and blaming them. Or in this case, "no u".
No you are not
The reason as to why people get offended is because they dont focus on God they focus more on there feelings .....
So... if someone is abused we should just focus on God and walk away? :) oh ok :)
The reason people write ignorant comments is because they lack understanding and wisdom
You heard it here folks, "justified feelings of anger at being abused" = "offence". This is how victims are shamed into silence.
Matthew 18: 7🕊️
This happens because it's filled with false doctrine.
I can see negative spirit in your face. Charis reaches more than 60 million people daily. They are all blessed with its message. How can a stone thrown in the sea change the pure water. Please, if you have christian heart, go reconcile with people you know for so many years or you better keep quite and your obligation as the
Follower of Christ.
You do not listen and lack understanding. Negative spirit? Please……..
Charis and Andrew protects the abusers. Doborah cares for her fellow Brothers and Sisters and she needs to speak up. She tried for years to speak with the ministry. They don't even care! Who is the evil one here?
🤣🤣🤣 Oh my! You see a negative spirit in her?? That’s a new tactic to throw at victims, did Charis teach you that?? 🤣🤣 I’m floored at the ignorant, abusive, dismissive comments by some of you Andrew Wommack followers.
What is your point !
Her point it to stop the ABUSE AND CULT.
You don’t get it. I’m sorry.
Complainers are never satisfied, until they give their life totally to God
Yeah, that's what the kids at IHOP were being told. It's how corruption thrives.
Are you insinuating Deborah is a complainer?
”“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”“
Matthew 18:15-20 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/mat.18.15-20.NKJV
Yes, and don't forget, By this shall all men know you are my disciples,, that you love one another.@@AbideNowinJesus
That’s right, Henry. People should not “complain” about or expose abuse within a cult. Those are the rules! But thank God that Deborah can think for herself, knows the truth, and has the courage to tell others about the abuses at Charis and AWMI. Now, go give YOUR life “totally to God” and YOU stop complaining about abuses being exposed 👍