Gigacasting Series Finale // + Full Body Castings
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- This is the Gigacasting Series Finale. It's the culmination of two months or research and 6 months of vidoes. The net result: FUD Dismissed! Plus, what's next? Going Faster and Larger.
Full Gigacasting Series Playlist:
• Gigacasting Series
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Timeline
00:00 Introduction
01:35 #1 // "Increased Repair Costs"
02:31 #2 // "Gigacasting is Easily Copied"
03:47 #3 // "Alloy Isn't Unique/Special"
07:12 #4 // "Cast Aluminum isn't Durable"
08:43 #5 // "Aluminum Parts are Expensive"
11:05 #6 // "Dies will Wear out Quickly"
12:10 Gigacasting as Part of Tesla's Larger Goals
13:40 Gigapress Output
15:33 "Full Body Casting"
19:51 The Hidden Cost Savings and Revenue of Gigacasting
22:20 Summary
#BattChat #BatteryTwitter
Intro Music by Dyalla: Homer Said - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
My guess regarding the tanks is that they have implemented a dual loop fluid cooling system where the primary fluid that removes heat from the mold is likely to be a solution of water and effectively, antifreeze that significantly lowers it's freezing temperature, raises the boiling point and increases the density/heat capacity. Inside the tanks, the primary fluid passes through a heat exchanger immersed in a much colder fluid or gas that re-chills the primary coolant which is the reinjected into the mold. Two tanks indicate that it takes twice as long to re-chill as it takes to make a single casting. The secondary coolant would be supplied from a larger tank with it's own heat rejection mechanism.
Or something else entirely, of course. But at its root, the thermodynamic efficiency of any heat engine is the thermal gradient DT between the hot and the cold side. So, run a colder fluid than water very quickly through the mold and then re-chill and repeat and you have increased the efficiency and capacity of your heat engine. I'll bet those tanks are frosty when it's running, probably using a vaporized conensed gas like CO2 or N2 as the secondary coolant then recompressing it.
You don't think Tesla may have leaned on SpaceX for a "little" ingenuity about heating and cooling with gases and liquids? I seem to recall Elon saying they were having problems with Raptor engines melting, they seem excellent at heat dissipation.
@@zekew2418 The Raptors also needed unique "impossible" alloys to keep from melting. It's interesting that Elon's planned PhD field was to be metallurgy.
Yup, there's certainly no doubt about cross-fertilization between the 2 companies. I'm almost certain Elon said some personnel are literally employed by both companies. Personally, I'm convinced the wonderfully compact and efficient heat pump and coolant system on the Model Y uses technology from the life support system of the Dragon spacecraft.
@@zekew2418 I'm sure they did. I was simply speculating on what might be going on in a situation like this based on known thermodynmic principles. Who knows, could be juju.
Seeing the heat exchangers under the tanks made me think the same, they just look a little small...
@@babbaracos My guess is that there are some bigger exchangers, a compressor and some big blowers upstairs when it's back in the casting hall. That thing is dumping ~ the same amount of heat that it takes to melt the aluminum in the cycle time of the press.
Somewhere there are big blowers whatever the system details. Unless of course they have a gigantic thermal battery, a generator and or thermoelectrics in the loop. Maybe they use the waste heat to preheat the ingots. It will be interesting to learn the details.
I love the engineering aspect of manufacturing as I am an engineer. Your presentations are very fascinating to me. I thank you for your straightforward humility and knowledge!
Humility, exactly, as opposed to practiced skepticism. The assumption the engineers are fools when it is more likely the cynic does not understand and would rather be ignorant of the reasoning than ask for an explanation.
Great breakdown Jordan! One of the knock-on effects that doesn't get calculated is, how many Engineers does it take to Wrangle 600 robots and keep them in line? Castings liberate a substantial quantity of Highly talented engineers! Engineers are the limiting factor so sayeth Elan
AWESOME insight Corey! I hadn't thought about that 🔥
For every 1 gigapress employed, 300+ robots became jobless.
what's the likely breakdown failure rate for 300 robots compared to 1 giga press. uptime must be better on the press given there are fewer failure points.
And how many CEOs sack/retrench/fire 600 robots?
Very good point. Cutting robots saves not only the robots cost and time to create a part but also the engineers cost and time that keeps them doing their jobs correctly. Robots are notoriously hard to set up and manage. When you remove them entirely you gain on many levels and he cost and time savings are amazing.
These Gigacastings videos must be the Benchmark for what other Tech People can do on their own presentations!!!! They are clear, full of reasoning, ample, illustrative, teach a lot, and with a very good narrative pace. Like Sandy Munro's saying- A "Symphony.....". There may be missing points, but the ones explained here have lots of thinking and research!!!!!! Outstanding job Jordan!!!!!
Not only is the content interesting, intelligent and well-researched, the presentation is first class and especially, not muddied by a stupid, stupid sound track! So many of the TH-camrs ruin their videos with a musical noise soundtrack that completely overwhelms the speaker. Makes it impossible to understand what they are saying so no point in watching their video. Did I mention that they were stupid?
Yes !
Wish this wasn’t the end. I loved this series.
Right on. There are definitely massive savings provided by the giga castings that can’t simply be calculated by material costs
Glad to see that galvanic corrosion was addressed. I would have been very surprised had it not been. They are not a bunch of yahoo's as you noted.
Looking forward to more info on those tanks! Great job Jordan!
Thanks man!
Well done for asking the (literal!) "Limiting factor" question about the Gigapress.
I'll bet those engineers were both surprised by the question and delighted at your reaction.
(Either cryogenic cooling, or charge of state of a liquid? Sterling engine style?)
yeah, they seemed proud, lol
@@thelimitingfactor I loved the response, "Do you see any differences between these two machines?"
Probably used some SpaceX expertise for that! 🤓
@@treva31 The tanks look to be manufactured in the same way as Starship.
The tanks are a great example of not sitting on your laurels. Every device has bottlenecks. Just because you solve a problem, doesn't mean your problem is solved.
Excellent, thorough summary.
You make it really easy to recommend it to almost everybody, even the non technically inclined folks out there, which is important. Thank you Jordan!
Maybe they are planning with the 12k ton machine for their dedicated robotaxi which they will probably only produce for themselves in a very large scale.
Those cooling tanks probably replicate something similar to what the ground equipment does at Space X launch sites
Finally! Someone is using seed oils (vegetable oils) for their intended use... industry... and not eating it.
So the question has to be asked, with the oil already there, can you fry an egg on one of these casting when it's hot off the press.
@@Martin-se3ij lol :)
That's what a job done well looks like, concise, & thorough. Excellent video, thank you.
WOW!!! Well this answers how Tesla will be able to not only (eventually) keep up with demand but continue to grow at a rate never seen before by a single manufacturer of such a large product. Massive scale and speed without compromising safety, reliability, quality or efficiency. How does anyone catch a Tesla? You don't.
I appreciate this video going over the critiques of the casting and having those all answered in one video. Your deep dive into this subject is an asset to the community Jordon that I hope more will find useful and helpful when looking at their car and the company.
I feel even better (not hard to do honestly) about my investment in Tesla and the future of transport with them leading the way.
Now we have to see if they can put the pieces they do have left on their board to spit out cars like Pez dispensers do candy. Maybe they have a solution for our supply chain issues? Outside of that and lockdowns, nothing is keeping Tesla back.
Thanks Jordon and enjoy the holiday weekend.
“The hardest job is making the machine that makes the machine.” They seem to be relentless
Omg I might have something to contribute to your research!!! I do process refrigeration for production facilities. Some faculties opt out of standard mechanical cooling (refrigeration blast freezers). Instead they use liquid nitrogen. You can absorb a lot more btu’s in a smaller space using liquid nitrogen injection. The temperature difference between the product and the violently boiling nitrogen is insane. It just rips the heat off of anything it touches. To go a bit further, air is 70% percent nitrogen. They can easily produce nitrogen on site and use it for the purposes.
Love the channel. I’m really happy for your success thus far :)
SWEEEEET! I don't know how that would work with castings with such a hug differential, but exciting 🤠
@@thelimitingfactor Keep in mind that Tesla aren't cooling the castings directly, they're cooling the dies. The dies will be at a much lower temperature than the castings (they have to be for the casting process to work). My comment is not meant to be specific to this nitrogen injection scheme proposed here.
14:52 I'm going out on a limb and say the tanks hold water or oil. When you've got a large mass flow rate of a fluid, you can simply treat the press dies as heat exchangers. As the fluid is pumped from one tank through the other though the dies, the temperature drops, so you might even be able to quickly heat the dies back up a bit before the next shot when pumping in reverse, while secondary heat exchangers remove thermal energy built up from cycle to cycle.
ps. "series of boxes" - they're likely run in parallel, and each one controls a certain zone of the die. Individual zones may have various temperatures, which raises the question how that would be realized with a pair of large tanks.
15:28 Those tanks remind me of starship & super heavy booster... and their cryogenic fuel tanks. I'm betting on something like liquid nitrogen to cool the castings.
Man there has to be so much cross pollination between SpaceX and tesla.
@@harsimranbansal5355 there is. Wasn't it the rocket scientist's that worked on the heat pumps for the Model Y?
I'm quite sure this wasn't a unique collaboration, probably done so for a lot of things.
Got my hands on the welded frame of a rivian SUV (at my job anyway, I wouldn't want a rivian), and all I can say is it looks time consuming and expensive. Cast frames make a world of sense.
🔥
For a brand-new low production vehicle it's not surprising the frame/unibody would be time-consuming. In a lot of ways Rivian and other new cars can more fairly be compared to an early Model S. But if Rivian wants to produce 100,000 delivery vans for Amazon they'll have to step up their game quickly.
@@donjones4719 Amazon has already started buying vans from other manufacurers. That might indicate a slower than expected ramp up for Rivian.
I'm not an engineer, or have a technical background. Simple old fashioned farmer. Dad was tool and die pre WW2. Therefore, your final episode is more my level of understanding, and then more than enough complexity to keep me slightly befuddled :D
I've subbed, just for the odd low level educational video like this. Thanks chum.
Class A video as usual. This is easily some of the best content on the web for understanding these topics and it’s free, as a consultant myself I bow to your generosity.
Well, it's not free per se, lol. Patreon supporters are kind enough to support me.
@@thelimitingfactor Indeed, I signed up as a supporter early on. I recognized the quality of you research and presentation and wanted to help facilitate you turning it into full time work. So glad enough others have seen the value and you have been able to go full time
Sandy recommended something like the giga-casting to big auto more than once. They rejected the idea every time. Now Tesla is doing it. The fact that Tesla quotes an assembly time about 1/3 of Volkswagon's most modern factory speaks volumes about how far advanced Tesla's manufacturing techniques are.
The really big press being for Tesla Semi production makes sense. I cannot think of any good reason for buying a larger, more expensive, more complicated machine that will necessarily require larger more expensive dies to punch out two parts at a time. But, I'm sure the Tesla engineers know something I don't and maybe there is a reason to do that.
In any case... This has been a great series. Thank-you.
One of the richest business people I ever worked for told me that the biggest mistake business leaders make is forgetting that they are in business to make money, not save money. And that every cost should be looked at as an investment, not an expense, and evaluated for it's return on invested capital, including intangibles such as reputation and brand perception. If one spends millions of dollars for a piece of equipment (such as a giga casting machine) that improves quality, speed, and productivity, that is an investment in all of those factors, not just a cost for equipment.
Bingo!
Glad you got to visit the Austin factory. All the YT content is great but seeing it in person must have been awesome. Great rundown, the casting process Tesla has developed is a no-brainer. Chinese are already copying, so there you go. Thanks!
Recently been comparing EVs - my leased Model S is 3 years old now and up for renewal.
One thing that stands out when comparing all the decent range EVs - the Teslas, eTrons, BMW i4, EQs, ioniq5, Kia EV6, taychan etc - they all weigh well in excess of 2100kg except for the Model 3 (1800 to 1900kg), Y (1900 to 2000kg) and ioniq5 (1900kg). It’s clear Teslas are manufactured differently with major weight savings (and all the knock on benefits that conveys on power consumption, handling, tyre wear, suspension etc) ... and that difference is due to gigacasting.
It’s also clear that whenever a new vehicle is hailed as a “Tesla killer”, the reviewers are looking at the features of the car. Not whether it can be made faster and more cheaply than a Model 3, or whether the manufacturer has secured enough lithium to make a million vehicles worth of batteries per year. And until an OEM manufacturer does those things, their vehicles will remain niche - individually impressive but still massive outproduced and outsold by Tesla, with a small share of the overall market limited by their low production volume. VW is the only legacy OEM that seems to understand this, although the Chinese clearly do.
Insanely well done. Thank you so much! Please keep up the good work!
Hi Jordan, Excellent video! One other point maybe to high light is that the definition of quality in a manufacturing environment can also be thought of as a reduction in variance. in other words, doing the same thing over and over again with very little deviation from the targeted value. If one only measures the end product of a process (like the tolerances/specs on say a part's dimensions) one is not reducing or controlling the variation (and in this sense, increasing the quality) but only filtering out non-conforming product. So, by eliminating so many points of potentially added variation (going from say 70 parts to a single part), an added bonus is that so many less processes have to be controlled to a tighter degree. Okay, long story short, the process control (not the filtering of defects, but the prevention of defects) is so much easier when a single step can replace 70 or more steps. Focus can then be on preventing (not filtering) drift in the process hence drift in, for instance, the product's dimensions. This is a large paradigm shift that many manufacturing companies have failed to make (shifting from filtering/reducing defects to preventing them in the first place by controlling the drift inherent in the process). Please keep up the excellent work!
Came across this video again, and gave it another view. Really great work, Jordan.
Giga casting machines are a "strategic" tool enabling the following:
- Ultimate Agility? If you want to change the design, just change the die and cleanup.
- Ultralight parts? Will it be possible some day to create closed cell foam parts, resulting in extremely rigid, light weight structures?
- Rapid recycling? In 15 years time, Tesla could be getting car "cores" returned for recycling. Essentially free aluminum to build new cars. The aluminum returned in the core "should" be easily separable from the rest of the car and dropped into the vat for re-casting. The best supply chain is no supply chain. The more aluminum in the car, the greater the opportunity to re-cycle the old cars. Heck, they could start directing current aluminum recyclers to deliver to the factory? I can't see how this can easily done with steel.
Love these videos deep diving on manufacturing and battery tech, thanks!
One question. Would I be right in thinking that due to the lack of coating and post-casting treatment, and maybe only a few pressed in steel inserts for local reinforcement, these giga castings are basically high quality aluminum alloy billets, just in a funny shape, that could retain a lot of value for recycling as these vehicles reach End Of Life?
Which then raises the question of outside of accidents what would lead to a 2022 model year or later Model Y from Giga Austin or Berlin being EOL'd? Seats wearing out, 4680 cells degrading below 80% of their original capacity? In which case could Tesla just drop out the old structural pack, and its seats, and just lift in a new one to refresh the Model Y?
Yup! Great for recycling.
LOL, you're thinking like a robotaxi fleet operator...
I think they will try to match EOL on parts so EOL will vary with vehicle. It also depends on your definition of EOL>
Because of Tesla's continuous iterative improvement model of manufacturing, it is very unlikely that they would want to simply refurbish a 10+ year old vehicle. It may not even be possible. Just look at the differences in Model 3 since it's introduction.
Hey Jordan, enjoyed the video as always. I was wondering if you considered the supply chain efficiency advantages of Giga castings as well. Seems to me that not needed to create 70 separate pieces, each with its own supply chain issues might be a thing to consider in these strange times.
Not sure! But I do think it's best to use both aluminum and steel to diversify, rather than to cast everything.
@@thelimitingfactor I wasn't suggesting to start casting everything. I meant, I would consider it another advantage over the old way of making the front and rear underbodies of the car.
Simplifying supply chains will also be essential to colonizing Mars. From my perspective a common problem with engineers is that they tend to have blinkers on, focusing so much on maximizing the efficiency of the problem in front of them that they don't think about the system as a whole. But that efficiency can be quickly wasted when extra processes and extra materials to bond parts together are added, all to create what is, overall, an inferior product. Higher cost and lower quality is not a winning combination unless you make your money from replacement parts (which legacy auto does).
Also, here on Earth, with our developed economy, it isn't terribly difficult to purchase 70 parts requiring 12 different materials - but in space or on Mars it won't be so easy to source all these different kinds of parts - so if they aren't really needed, why do so? It's already going to be very difficult, so why not keep things as simple as possible?
The 12-ton press might be needed for CyberTruck or Roadster, which might be another reason why there were pushed to 2023. The combination of Tesla wanting to ramp up and the option to get a cheaper+better CT from day-1 is a good enough reason for Tesla to delay CT by a year. Given other players in the EV Truck market are still running at low volumes, delaying CT has minimal negative impact on Tesla.
Tesla also doesn't want to destroy all other car companies for a number of reasons including the health of the automotive ecosystem and political issues surrounding monopolies, so giving the other manufacturers a little breathing space to at least survive is a good thing from Tesla's perspective.
Well done! Professional and educational as always.
A SOLID REFERENCE - While I enjoy carefree watching the daily progress of the Giga-Factories your presentations have a timeless depth & substance. A variation on Munro. " I know your names, "Don't waste my time I have better things to spend my energies on "
As always, we'll done! Your depth of knowledge shared is always appreciated! 👌
Fantastic season finale of Gigacasting. I enjoyed it a lot! exciting future.
Thanks Roberto! You're most welcome.
An excellent video, and just when I was getting another hankering for your content...
Thankyou for BTFOing these idiots in your usual meticulous, thorough and precise way, all while providing valuable insight into exactly how these processes work and generate value for Tesla, as well as making your usual informed speculation about how it might develop in the future. Presumably, like always, you will mostly be right.
Best content: limitang factor in gigacastings...the heat. Gigacastings and the difficult to replicate by other OEMs is one of the moats I consider in Tesla.
Awesome content as usual ! Keep up the amazing work man !
Awsome stuff as always Jordan 👍🏻
excellent presentation/explanation
I really like how you dig deep for the information.
Great video and series Jordan!!! 👌🏽🙏🏼
Love your channel Jordan! ❤️
Amazing content. 😊
Excellent analysis and information.
Extraordinarily well put together. Bravo and thanks!!
As usual, an inspiring presintation. Thankyou.
The quality of this channel is top notch. I enjoy it 100%
Just want to echo others that are praising your fine analysis and thoughtful reasoning of Tesla’s innovative manufacturing. I agree Tesla is a number of years ahead of the OEMs and EV startups. Thing is, Tesla will be able to cut sale pricing (in time with experience) while OEMs and others will struggle to cut losses. It’s almost unavoidable. I was flabbergasted by the Austin gigafactory. And the factory appears to be only using 50% of the useful floor space, if that! And they are producing the battery cells too! Thanks a lot Jordan!
Excellent high quality information, thank you.
Really love your soothing voice man
Unfortunately this is the first time I’ve seen any part of this series which I have found amazingly interesting, I have now subscribed and will be going back to see the start of it all.
Thanks Jordan. You are awesome!
Another excellent video. Thankyou.
I’ve always thought that Tesla would view die replacement as an opportunity to iterate on the design of the casting. A silver lining to the cost cloud.
Excellent analysis- thanks
These are fantastic videos! Thanks!
Excellent summary of Gigacasting points.
A+ Jordan. You rock! You and Munro provide great detail
Love these deep dives...
Your channel is partly the reason why I'm doing metallurgy in college . But thermodynamics is a bitch good thing I took chemistry serious in high school 😂😂
🔥🔥🔥
YUHSSSSSSS Jordan you sir are a champion thank you for this video series.
Thank you Jordan!
VERY IMPRESSIVE RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS
Another Excellent video!
Love these videos, they are always wholesome from a nerd and engineering point of view! 💪
Excellent as always. I look forward to these 👍 might just join that patreon
Bravo ! Looking forward to the future ! 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Super helpful video, as always !
Tesla can also cast other smaller parts in the same cast as the larger casts if they set them up properly.
Another great video, thank you.
Authoritative, informative, well-researched, entertaining and perspicacious. Nice work.
Perspicacity is a great word!
Great summary of your previous works - which I had also watched. Once we go big, get back to me. Happily will sponsor generously. Nice work
Jordan is my boy! Great job as always :)
Hey hey! Thanks for stopping by man!
Love your work 👍
Brilliant video. I have learned a lot.
Killing it brother!
Wonderful analysis and recap. Thank you Jordan. Love the outfit you rocked at Giga Texas
LOL, yeah, when it Rome
As a kid, my favorite toy car was an Aston Martin. It was all made from aluminum die-cast. This makes all perfect sense. Fewer parts, fewer man made steps less production failures. An end product that is more stable, vibrates less and hopefully last the longest!
damn u really do incredible videos....thanks brother!
KISS Principal at its best,I understood every step,every process, every term.Well done and correct speed of information delivery.5🌟s...
Great video. All the info here really makes one want to learn more and more about what Tesla has to offer. Thanks for the insightful information and please keep it coming!
Great video. I like the cooling info you got from some engineers. Hope that event you got some good contacts.
Can’t wait to see what the 12000 ton casting machine builds.
Yeah man, it's going to be a beast!
@@thelimitingfactor I think you're on the right track with the Semi, or maybe the mystical "van" floor?
what size ram tip do you think is pushing a 175 lbs shot of alum, I guess I could do the math but I don't have the formula
Thanks for the education.
Dude.... that was amazing 👏 🙌 😍 ❤️ 👌
Crazy fast production evolution. WOW
AMAZING! THANK YOU!
Excellent video, thank you very much. M
Yay!looking forward to this final vid on giga casting.
God I missed your smooth voice! And also good content!
Lol, thanks! 🤠
great video as always. Early on I mention Galvanic issues. It’s the proper combination of alloys that make it possible
Excellent summary. Few people grasp the value of saving time and improving quality. The cost of parts barely matters if you drastically reduce failures and time of production.
Great video mate
great content!!! detailed and interesting for engineers anyway
The postwar Japanese auto industry realized that despite their low labor costs, their low efficiency made them uncompetitive with Detroit. With the help of Dr. Demming, Toyota came to understand that the best way to remove cost is to add quality, rather than “inspecting quality in” to fully assembled cars. When applied top to bottom, this approach led to designs that had fewer parts, fewer assembly steps, and a process that enabled any worker to *stop* the production line the moment a parts or assembly problem was detected, so that the issue could be analyzed and corrected before production could resume. Demming was working for the Japanese because the “experts” in Detroit laughed at his foolish and expensive notions. How did that work out for Detroit?
Terrific content.
Outstanding Finale!
Thanks so much Jordan. Awesome video and series in so many ways. One thing you said about some leaders' being "self-serving careerists" is a phrase I will add to my vernacular. I have met some of these in my life and found them to be incredibly frustrating to work with. Worse, they were very good at getting these positions AND making massive 7-digit salaries with little understanding of the organization they lead. Not😎
Amen, lol. Quite often they're not actually bad people, just so deep in the game that they've become detached from reality.
12,000 ton press: It's a casting for the Semi. 6000 For model 3/Y, 9000 for Cybertruck, 12,000 for Semi. Makes perfect sense.