When I was about 9 years old, about 70 years ago, a gypsy family camped in a field close to my home. I spent many hours around their camp that summer and one day the father showed us how to make a war dart. He took a 2 in diameter branch and shaped it with his knife so it was about a foot long and bulbus at the front and tailing to about half inch with a cross shaped cut in the end. A sheet of folded newspaper formed the flights. A 3 foot length of thin string was the sling knoted and fitted into a slot cut just behind the bulbus front. He twirled it around his head and snapped back on the string and the dart flew about 150-200 yards. He told us that it was used in war thousands of years ago.
If I was a medieval soldier, the very first piece of gear to be taken from the battlefield dead, would be a helmet. Seems there was a lot of sharp, pointy things falling from the sky.
I heard a story about a lineman (electrical, not football) dude who took off his hard hat to wipe off sweat from his brow. He did that while under a pole being worked on. In that fragment of the work day a bolt fell and hit him right on the top of his head. He put his hard hat back on before the blood started flowing, and his knees started buckling. Imagine people intentionally hitting you with purpose-built weapons while also pouring chamber pots, dead animals, and boiling oil on you 😮 What kind of helmet do I need to protect me from rotten dogs and scalding pitch?
I love it when geezers do have the inginuity and energy to bung stuff together and contemplate the past ! It is fab and gives us all food for thought. Thank you very much.
As a geezer myself I agree, I might add if it wasn’t for guys like him all this will be forgotten.BTW this is one weapon that I never knew about until today.
This is fantastic. I admire you greatly for perfecting the mount and release of the dart. The distance attained is difficult to judge but looks 100 yard 'ish and with a pointy thing on the end would cause damage in the ranks. Thank you for furthering my education.
This was fascinating to watch. Few people know about the use of war darts in the annals of military history. We're not referring to bar darts. War darts throughout history around the world measured anywhere between 12 inches (Roman plumbata or martiobarbuli) to the 7-feet darts thrown by wooden atlatls wielded by Upper Paleolithic hunters. The Aztecs widely used atlatls projecting specially designed 6 to 7 feet darts with obsidian points and feather fletching. The ancient Hawaiians threw a slim, all-wood dart of about six feet, more like a short javelin. The Romans themselves used several types of darts besides the late 3rd century plumbata, of which five were attached behind a legionary's shield. One Roman dart was a light, unfletched javelin, consisting of a 3-feet wood shaft and a one-foot iron shank with a small, diamond or leaf-shaped point. Another Roman dart was about 3.5 feet long, of similar construction, and carried in a quiver attached to a cavalry horse's saddle. After watching this fascinating video, I kept wondering whether the ancient Greeks were better off simply using slings. It took some time to prepare the dart for slinging. Loading a rounded stone into a fabric or leather pouch is faster. There is no question about the distance this homemade dart could fly. It seems to have been an 'area' weapon, that is, intended for hundreds of men to disperse darts high into the air and raining down on the packed Roman legionary formations with a shotgun type effect. There is little wonder why this ancient dart dispensing system was not widely used.
Spinning the dart point first makes all the difference. I have tried various point-outwards methods and I hate them, I can feel the drag of the dart as I spin it and the fishtailing after the release robs even more velocity. Also, that first yaw when its flying forwards but pointing to the right causes a strong rightward drift that means it never flies to the point of aim.
According to Carl Sagan's "Cosmos", Europe was on the brink of the industrial revolution in around 400AD but the religious authorities condemned the developments as "Satanic" and repressed science for another thousand years.
When I was young we used to make darts from bamboo sticks (at least three or four times longer than the dart you show) We split the rear end of the bamboo and inserted several playing cards to form a sort of 'mortar bomb' style fin arangement and taped a two or three dud 'C' or 'D' cell type batteries around the nose for nose weights. We'd then cut a 1/16 to 1/8th inch deep notch into the bamboo stick in the rear third of it's length. *We used to throw them using a much simpler piece of string with just a knotted end.* When thrown in this manner, the darts would go much, much higher and many times further than could be thrown by hand alone. _To throw, the knotted end was placed along the notch, the string was then simply looped once around the stick then 'over' the knot and down along the bamboo to be held fast a little behind the nose._ You then threw the dart much as normal, _but in the split-second before it released, the string and notch would allow you to continue to apply acceleration to the dart for about a metre or so after the dart had left your hand_ (thus giving you a mechanical advantage of a broadly similar nature to that of an atlatl, _only instead of pushing, the string is pulling_ ) This allowed you to apply almost your whole body weight behind the throw and launch the dart with considerable force some very impressive distances. _We didn't twirl it around like a sling as you are doing however._
Yes, this is a detaching amentum. You can also use a fixed amentum loop which is much shorter, just behind where you hold the spear. These were used for javelin throwing through all of antiquity until the age of gunpowder. The fixed loops were for military use and the detaching ones were for athletic competitions. In Greek it is called the ankyle.
Mate, just made a very similar post and then read yours. We used to have battles with them with other kids from the estate. They were happy days, if you didn't lose an eye.
I've just watched it again because it is so interesting, the sling illustrates that concept of asymmetric battle and how ideas travel (or not) . I was wondering how many other sling setups did you try for the dart and could you show how the idea evolved to this end.
My first version was attached to the tail, this gave a very poor release with the dart fishtailing wildly and flying to a different point of aim from conventionally slung stones. I abandoned this and went to the mid attachment point, this was immediately much better th-cam.com/video/0mMUOZZBDuY/w-d-xo.html
@@shanedude91 I have, it didn't work very well. The dart does not have time to stabilise during the short throw arc and so it fishtails wildly after launch, losing a lot of energy to drag. It was also quite a handful when reloading.
Thanks! Most of my channels views come from TH-cam suggestions. I get a lot from strategy video games like Rome Total War because they have slingers in.
@@davidmorningstar I don't think I even searched anything related to this, youtube was like "hey want to watch an interesting video on days" and I was like ya know what, yes I do. And I was not disappointed, I never could've figured out how to come up with anything close to that
@@brettridings5594 Somehow TH-cam took my searches for the 1981 Addams Family movie trailer, the Fishhead Song and Father Ted and suggested this. And I'm very glad it did.
very cool, i believe the greeks used a sling for some types of javalin also its also described as being wrapped around shaft, i wonder if they also had a peg because ive tried to replicate it a few times with just cord and it seemed to not add much power for stuff around, but it would work with a peg like a australian spearthrower you woundnt use a traditional sling action for it ofc because of how long it is
I have two very old videos of me throwing with fixed and detaching cords. Amentum is the Latin name, Ankyle is the Greek name. Look for 'Slo-mo Javelin 01' and '02'
Hi David, we met 10 years or so ago at a bow making gathering. You were making a flatbow from beech if I remember correctly :) Good to 'see' you again haha! I've watched a few of your slinging videos and will be giving it a go myself.
David. You directed me here, following my comment about throwing arrows, in one of your slinging videos. The setup we used was simpler than yours, in that we used a single length of string with one knot in it. This was tensioned along the shaft of an 18" - 2’ flighted arrow. The string was wrapped around the throwing hand, which also gripped the arrow head and the action was an over arm throw. The opposite end of the string was held in place by looping it round the shaft, in a notch below the flight, and over the knot. The string effectively lengthened your throwing arm. Not sure, now, what kind of distances we achieved but they were far beyond our unassisted capabilities. Maybe you could test this out and compare distance, accuracy etc. I don’t think a short arrow would be much good as the length of the string is the force multiplier and this is governed by the length of the projectile. Nice videos, by the way.
Nigel thorpe'our throwers were very simler to yours we used length s of dowel cards for flights n wire wrapped near the point length of string one groove near flights n hours of fun the boys just come out in me time to play again throwers n gadders
@@johnbattista9519 Go away. You don't understand what a joke is. His 'joke' was about using lawn darts on his peers. My comment wasn't related to that, it was related to his use of the name 'lawn darts.' Seriously, illiterate people have to be one of the worst parts of TH-cam comments.
Thank God we never knew about these when we were kids. Half of us wouldn't be here today if we did lol. It was bad enough being chased home and shot at with a BB gun or chased thru the woods by one of your "mates" with a catapult lol
We did, just had make shift versions using crushed bottle caps as arrow heads. We just didn't die lol or we did and there was no FB around to tell everyone
We had lawn darts to kill family and friends with. Worked well. With enough baby boomers in the streets, chances are a errant dart would hit someone. I’m interested in all the knots. 💕🐝🇺🇸
They were thrown from a two pronged fork, short tines just enough to balance the projectile curved at the back so the projectile will always come free, and a slight hook on top similar to the one used to throw Plumbata. A bit like a sling staff without the sling, and the probable fore-runner of the said sling staff, and used in the same way. Sling staff would also throw Plumbata. The head of the dart (or two stones tied to a length of strong twine wrapped in fabric soaked in oil and set alight if you want to start any fires ) slots into the fork, you swing it with all your might and as it passes vertical you allow it to slip out, and Robert is your Relative.
@@davidmorningstar Only my late uncle who was a mad student of ancient warfare and artefacts, who also was an accomplished arrow smith who told me how the best smiths actually case-hardened their triangular, not square bodkins by using fermented animal urine as a quench. He did his own research--but the Chinese were one of his main sources of information, they were well ahead in arrow technology, especially in armour penetration. One can make a throwing staff for weighted darts but one can prove this for oneself by simply making one up and the preferred wood in ancient times apparently was Hazelwood, but any strong wood or even Bamboo would work fine, a little flex but not too much.--and others copied them. The Romans were well ahead of the early Britons when it came to projectiles and the ways of throwing them. The best proof of concept is replication.
Hand thrown darts of various sizes pop up at various times and places. The plumbata in particular seems to be about rapid fire, with five darts being carried inside the shield instead of the usual one or two javelins.
Have a look at Tods Workshop, there's a video on there all about the various ancient war darts, including how to launch a plumbata with a staff sling. Very impressive, but I do like your take on the Cestros.
Thank you! This is actually my first attempt at talking to the camera and editing together a proper short film to explain something. I did another two and got better with each one.
Yes, like the chap below. Length of straight round tree branch. Dart flight stuck in one end and tied in. The tip of the dart at the front. A groove towards the rear. A length of string with a know. Wrap it and sling it. Happy days.
It is very challenging to catch small fast objects on video. I used the sky to silhouette the darts because they werent showing up against the background.
Yes; I found it odd that this information wasn't included. Obviously, different slings and darts will produce different results but it would still be interesting to know how far this combination will shoot.
Like the stone sling it would have most likely taken quite a bit of practice in order to use it effectively but this is still a pretty cool little weapon.
David, could I encourage you to invest in a collar microphone so we can hear what you're saying above the surrounding noise? It would help tremendously. Rode make a very good and economical one. That said, well done on an excllent and entirely workable approximation of the sleing used over 2000 years ago. Very clever!
Wow, brilliant demonstration. Many thanks. But do you think that the energy of the projectile is high enough to kill or at least dangerously hurt a person. Especially as the romans used big shields to cover most of the body. As it was invented after the classical sling was used for centuries, it surely must have been seen as advantages. And the enemy was set - Rome. Therefore, my thought (as an amateur) is that the sling must have a higher acceleration to provide more energy. What do you think?
The slingstone and the dart launch pretty much identically, they fly to the same point of aim. The dart is a little less aerodynamically efficient so it doesnt fly quite as far but it hits with a sharp steel point (not mine of course, but the original ones did) and so they have great penetrating power. The ammo is more expensive and much more bulky than sling stones or lead bullets so maybe that was enough to stop it being more popular.
I was only throwing these 70 meters because I had to go and fetch them back. With a full throw they go about as far as arrows, not as far as sling bullets.
What are the benefits of a dart vs stone ammo? I guess darts land with a particular point forward, whereas a stone lands any which way. A dart with a sharp point on it would pierce, but a stone to the head would be effective too. I'd also guess a stone would go further than a dart, but idk. A golf ball would beat both, I think.
I was wondering what would happen if you angled the fletching slightly. This would help to spin stabilize the dart in flight. The only problem might happen when you sling it around your head, it might not like to travel in a circle.
Could it have been thrown with cord wrapped around the shaft to increase speed, force and level flight with some possibilities of distance increasing??
Something related Interesting. There is a group that wants to sling or synthetically launch small rockets into orbit. They have already demonstrated a small version of their launcher. Their rockets would still have rocket propellant, but the centrifugal launcher would launch the rocket about halfway into orbit. The other half would be done with rocket propellant.
Could you use the same knots and a different material in the 2 cords if the cord holding the dart was able to stretch even 5 percent more then the mechanism cord you could tie it to dart cord and anchor and train to find the inertia point to activate the mechanism ?
The maximum point of stretch would be when the dart is behind you moving sideways, you have to hold on past that and release with the dart moving forwards.
Some think primitive people were, well, simple and primitive. But ancient technology at times was incredibly detailed and extremely practical. Granted, this dart is not the pyramids. But still highly effective by accomplishing a lot using very little based on physical principles we better understand today 👍.
I sure as hell would not want to get hit with one of those darts flung like that, but what are the odds of getting hit by one from about a hundred yards? I suppose that if there were two opposing mobs or armies at the proper distance and each started flinging these darts at each other, someone might get hurt. I know I wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn with one. I say that because as a kid I had a sling that would fire a rock very far but I couldn't hit shit with it.
Slingers usually lived their life behind a sling. They were very accurate. That said, if you were lost in the rank and file, your odds of getting hit by one would be a bit slim if you had a shield and the commander ordered you to hold it to block the darts.
while David's demonstration was fine, I have to wonder how effective this method might have been and how fast such a dart or darts could be reloaded during an actual battle when hoards of men were coming at you! Interesting bit of history for sure!
@@atomchild2619 it can travel farther than a bow and the stones fly at 100 mph. A bullet travels 18 times that speed for reference. It's kinda like a primitive gun to me and if you run out of ammo u can just pick up a random stone off the ground. You can't do that with a bow you have to make all of your arrows etc... Takes more work with a bow
@@atomchild2619 There are pros and cons to every weapon. A dart sling uses very little material, all of it quite common, and is easy to carry and replace if lost or destroyed. and can also quickly abandoned to grab a spear if need be. Slingers tended to be low class soldiers, and the more traditional sling was a very common weapon at the time, so giving your average yokel a dart sling could really shorten the learning curve. the battles in antiquity were almost always set piece battles so they slung in unison. Accuracy wasn't extremely important. Just being able to launch it into a body of men with sufficient force to cause trouble is enough. the reloading time was taken into account in their battle strategies, so was sort of a non issue. Why not a bow? War bows are expensive, relatively fragile, require constant care, specialized skills to use, useless in bad weather, and difficult to make. And it should be noted that the Macedonians DID employ archers in their army as well, quite good ones. But, again, it's far harder and more expensive to train and arm a group of archers than it is to modify a "peasant weapon" for war and give it to your less specialized soldiers as a way to put more pain in the air between you and your enemies.
@@olinseats4003 In middle ages England it was the law that every man, woman and child over 14 should be fully skilled with the longbow. It's why so many churchyards here have yew trees in them, as a central source of timber for bows. An English archer could fire two more arrows before the first had reached its target.
When I was about 9 years old, about 70 years ago, a gypsy family camped in a field close to my home. I spent many hours around their camp that summer and one day the father showed us how to make a war dart. He took a 2 in diameter branch and shaped it with his knife so it was about a foot long and bulbus at the front and tailing to about half inch with a cross shaped cut in the end. A sheet of folded newspaper formed the flights. A 3 foot length of thin string was the sling knoted and fitted into a slot cut just behind the bulbus front. He twirled it around his head and snapped back on the string and the dart flew about 150-200 yards. He told us that it was used in war thousands of years ago.
Ty for sharing Sir!
Great story!
Thanks for that.
Shame you don't have a picture of the dart, it sounds brilliant
that's why gypsies and their vehicles are torched at night nowadays...
Great video. Came here from Tod Cuttler's recent staff sling video, and I am impressed by the quality of this weapon and the video presenting it.
@@ClashBluelight Thank you!
Me too
If I was a medieval soldier, the very first piece of gear to be taken from the battlefield dead, would be a helmet. Seems there was a lot of sharp, pointy things falling from the sky.
It wasn't so much little pointing things falling but occasionally you'd face a people that would hurl large rocks or hammers at you.
I heard a story about a lineman (electrical, not football) dude who took off his hard hat to wipe off sweat from his brow. He did that while under a pole being worked on. In that fragment of the work day a bolt fell and hit him right on the top of his head. He put his hard hat back on before the blood started flowing, and his knees started buckling. Imagine people intentionally hitting you with purpose-built weapons while also pouring chamber pots, dead animals, and boiling oil on you 😮
What kind of helmet do I need to protect me from rotten dogs and scalding pitch?
@@hithere4719one with a tungsten umbrella
David, you have the best how-to videos for some of the most obscure weapons i have seen. No fluff, no BS, just great information. Appreciated.
Thanks!
I love it when geezers do have the inginuity and energy to bung stuff together and contemplate the past ! It is fab and gives us all food for thought. Thank you very much.
As a geezer myself I agree, I might add if it wasn’t for guys like him all this will be forgotten.BTW this is one weapon that I never knew about until today.
This is fantastic. I admire you greatly for perfecting the mount and release of the dart.
The distance attained is difficult to judge but looks 100 yard 'ish and with a pointy thing on the end would cause damage in the ranks. Thank you for furthering my education.
Coolest Accidental Video Find of the Night award goes to this. Thanks for making this!
This was fascinating to watch. Few people know about the use of war darts in the annals of military history. We're not referring to bar darts. War darts throughout history around the world measured anywhere between 12 inches (Roman plumbata or martiobarbuli) to the 7-feet darts thrown by wooden atlatls wielded by Upper Paleolithic hunters. The Aztecs widely used atlatls projecting specially designed 6 to 7 feet darts with obsidian points and feather fletching. The ancient Hawaiians threw a slim, all-wood dart of about six feet, more like a short javelin. The Romans themselves used several types of darts besides the late 3rd century plumbata, of which five were attached behind a legionary's shield. One Roman dart was a light, unfletched javelin, consisting of a 3-feet wood shaft and a one-foot iron shank with a small, diamond or leaf-shaped point. Another Roman dart was about 3.5 feet long, of similar construction, and carried in a quiver attached to a cavalry horse's saddle.
After watching this fascinating video, I kept wondering whether the ancient Greeks were better off simply using slings. It took some time to prepare the dart for slinging. Loading a rounded stone into a fabric or leather pouch is faster. There is no question about the distance this homemade dart could fly. It seems to have been an 'area' weapon, that is, intended for hundreds of men to disperse darts high into the air and raining down on the packed Roman legionary formations with a shotgun type effect. There is little wonder why this ancient dart dispensing system was not widely used.
Flechettes.
@@stevenfenster1798 If I saw one of those darts coming at me I'd definitely flechette myself. /S
Brilliant video Dave. Thank goodness there are still eccentric people like you about. Really enjoyed the video 👍🏼
Nice. Functional, simple, and effective. That is the exact traits you would find in any historic sling, especially those used in warfare.
Wow! That is probably the cleanest looking release of a c. dart that I've seen yet! Good stuff.
Spinning the dart point first makes all the difference. I have tried various point-outwards methods and I hate them, I can feel the drag of the dart as I spin it and the fishtailing after the release robs even more velocity. Also, that first yaw when its flying forwards but pointing to the right causes a strong rightward drift that means it never flies to the point of aim.
Wow primitive technology never ceases to amaze me. Man love your channel
According to Carl Sagan's "Cosmos", Europe was on the brink of the industrial revolution in around 400AD but the religious authorities condemned the developments as "Satanic" and repressed science for another thousand years.
Looks like I'm about to step up my Lawn Dart game, boys!
Hold onto them. They're no longer made.
I don't know if this is how they worked, but it is an excellent interpretation of a cestros sling
Very nice video. Thanks for the demonstration I was looking for this quite a wile. Looking forward for videos
It gives such a beautiful arc. Slings are awesome
sheer genius. reconstructive engineering. well done!!!
When I was young we used to make darts from bamboo sticks (at least three or four times longer than the dart you show) We split the rear end of the bamboo and inserted several playing cards to form a sort of 'mortar bomb' style fin arangement and taped a two or three dud 'C' or 'D' cell type batteries around the nose for nose weights.
We'd then cut a 1/16 to 1/8th inch deep notch into the bamboo stick in the rear third of it's length.
*We used to throw them using a much simpler piece of string with just a knotted end.*
When thrown in this manner, the darts would go much, much higher and many times further than could be thrown by hand alone.
_To throw, the knotted end was placed along the notch, the string was then simply looped once around the stick then 'over' the knot and down along the bamboo to be held fast a little behind the nose._
You then threw the dart much as normal, _but in the split-second before it released, the string and notch would allow you to continue to apply acceleration to the dart for about a metre or so after the dart had left your hand_ (thus giving you a mechanical advantage of a broadly similar nature to that of an atlatl, _only instead of pushing, the string is pulling_ ) This allowed you to apply almost your whole body weight behind the throw and launch the dart with considerable force some very impressive distances.
_We didn't twirl it around like a sling as you are doing however._
Yes, this is a detaching amentum. You can also use a fixed amentum loop which is much shorter, just behind where you hold the spear. These were used for javelin throwing through all of antiquity until the age of gunpowder. The fixed loops were for military use and the detaching ones were for athletic competitions. In Greek it is called the ankyle.
Mate, just made a very similar post and then read yours. We used to have battles with them with other kids from the estate. They were happy days, if you didn't lose an eye.
We used to call them Dutch Arrows. I live in the UK. (I’m now known as ‘one-eyed-dog’. 😂😱)
Nice one. I’ve recently commented, in similar vein, about arrows we used to throw, as children.
We use to call them a Dutch arrow
This is Thrand , Love this awesome video very well done!
Cheers! I love your channel of course
I've just watched it again because it is so interesting, the sling illustrates that concept of asymmetric battle and how ideas travel (or not) . I was wondering how many other sling setups did you try for the dart and could you show how the idea evolved to this end.
My first version was attached to the tail, this gave a very poor release with the dart fishtailing wildly and flying to a different point of aim from conventionally slung stones. I abandoned this and went to the mid attachment point, this was immediately much better
th-cam.com/video/0mMUOZZBDuY/w-d-xo.html
@@davidmorningstar would it be possible to combine this dart design with a fustibalus?
@@shanedude91 I have, it didn't work very well. The dart does not have time to stabilise during the short throw arc and so it fishtails wildly after launch, losing a lot of energy to drag. It was also quite a handful when reloading.
@@davidmorningstar ah, that makes sense. Cool channel BTW, just discovered it
Your way is pretty cool, seems legit ancient to me. Thank you
Brilliant! Looking forward to seeing you doing accuracy casts!
@tony baloney
Was going to say the same thing. Volly fire depends on number not accuracy.
Thanks for this, seems like a great solution. Imagine dozens, or even hundreds of these flying at you. Would definitely scratch your scutum
Dude that thing is bad ass!! Thanks for sharing you knowledge and your time sir !
Hence, the Shakespearian expression, "To suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." (Hamlet)
The mild cigar from Henson and Bedges...
I don't know why this was suggested to me but great video Dave I actually really loved it!!
Thanks! Most of my channels views come from TH-cam suggestions. I get a lot from strategy video games like Rome Total War because they have slingers in.
@@davidmorningstar I don't think I even searched anything related to this, youtube was like "hey want to watch an interesting video on days" and I was like ya know what, yes I do. And I was not disappointed, I never could've figured out how to come up with anything close to that
@@brettridings5594 Somehow TH-cam took my searches for the 1981 Addams Family movie trailer, the Fishhead Song and Father Ted and suggested this. And I'm very glad it did.
Thanks for making this video! Ancient warfare is fascinating
For an "attempt", I'd say that's excellent! The slow mo really tells the tale, it flies straight and true on the release, very cool.
All things considered, the scenery is breath taking.
very cool, i believe the greeks used a sling for some types of javalin also its also described as being wrapped around shaft, i wonder if they also had a peg because ive tried to replicate it a few times with just cord and it seemed to not add much power for stuff around, but it would work with a peg like a australian spearthrower you woundnt use a traditional sling action for it ofc because of how long it is
I have two very old videos of me throwing with fixed and detaching cords. Amentum is the Latin name, Ankyle is the Greek name. Look for 'Slo-mo Javelin 01' and '02'
Hi David, we met 10 years or so ago at a bow making gathering. You were making a flatbow from beech if I remember correctly :) Good to 'see' you again haha! I've watched a few of your slinging videos and will be giving it a go myself.
Wow! That would have been at Flag Fen or Butser I think. That bow came out nicely too. Have fun with your sling!
David. You directed me here, following my comment about throwing arrows, in one of your slinging videos. The setup we used was simpler than yours, in that we used a single length of string with one knot in it. This was tensioned along the shaft of an 18" - 2’ flighted arrow. The string was wrapped around the throwing hand, which also gripped the arrow head and the action was an over arm throw. The opposite end of the string was held in place by looping it round the shaft, in a notch below the flight, and over the knot. The string effectively lengthened your throwing arm. Not sure, now, what kind of distances we achieved but they were far beyond our unassisted capabilities. Maybe you could test this out and compare distance, accuracy etc. I don’t think a short arrow would be much good as the length of the string is the force multiplier and this is governed by the length of the projectile. Nice videos, by the way.
Nigel thorpe'our throwers were very simler to yours we used length s of dowel cards for flights n wire wrapped near the point length of string one groove near flights n hours of fun the boys just come out in me time to play again throwers n gadders
@@kevinComery sounds very similar. Great fun.
I've never heard of this dart before. That's pretty damn cool!
Here in the states, we call those lawn darts and use them against each other and ourselves. Lol jk
Lawn darts tend to be longer and wider, also they are more front heavy.
I'm old enough to remember when lawn darts were still lawn darts, with an aluminum point.
@@WhoThisMonkey , he’s joking.
@@johnbattista9519
Go away.
You don't understand what a joke is.
His 'joke' was about using lawn darts on his peers.
My comment wasn't related to that, it was related to his use of the name 'lawn darts.'
Seriously, illiterate people have to be one of the worst parts of TH-cam comments.
Very cool set up. I'd be interested it trying it with Trebuchet, and Staff Sling. I shoot darts out 400 meters with Trebuchet.
Thank you for your research and time. Be Well and Good Journey Richie
Wow that flew way better then I had ever thought!
That release trigger is brilliant... ☺️
Surprisingly effective. Thank you.
Now there's something that should catch Tod Cutler's eye!
Have you seen Tod's videos on the plumbata?
Sir, you nailed it - nothing shy of formidable.
Thank God we never knew about these when we were kids. Half of us wouldn't be here today if we did lol. It was bad enough being chased home and shot at with a BB gun or chased thru the woods by one of your "mates" with a catapult lol
We did, just had make shift versions using crushed bottle caps as arrow heads. We just didn't die lol or we did and there was no FB around to tell everyone
We had lawn darts to kill family and friends with. Worked well. With enough baby boomers in the streets, chances are a errant dart would hit someone. I’m interested in all the knots. 💕🐝🇺🇸
Would like to see some video of impacts, on for example water filled plastic jugs.
Very interesting, thank you for taking the time to share.
I'm trying to imagine how the inventor's tribe must have reacted to the mad lad who figured out how to turn a sling into a bow like weapon.
Yeah, they probably said something like " it'll never work"
I'd like to think a kid invented all the sling weapons.
They were thrown from a two pronged fork, short tines just enough to balance the projectile curved at the back so the projectile will always come free, and a slight hook on top similar to the one used to throw Plumbata.
A bit like a sling staff without the sling, and the probable fore-runner of the said sling staff, and used in the same way. Sling staff would also throw Plumbata.
The head of the dart (or two stones tied to a length of strong twine wrapped in fabric soaked in oil and set alight if you want to start any fires ) slots into the fork, you swing it with all your might and as it passes vertical you allow it to slip out, and Robert is your Relative.
@@MikeBanks2003 do you have a source for that?
@@davidmorningstar Only my late uncle who was a mad student of ancient warfare and artefacts, who also was an accomplished arrow smith who told me how the best smiths actually case-hardened their triangular, not square bodkins by using fermented animal urine as a quench.
He did his own research--but the Chinese were one of his main sources of information, they were well ahead in arrow technology, especially in armour penetration.
One can make a throwing staff for weighted darts but one can prove this for oneself by simply making one up and the preferred wood in ancient times apparently was Hazelwood, but any strong wood or even Bamboo would work fine, a little flex but not too much.--and others copied them. The Romans were well ahead of the early Britons when it came to projectiles and the ways of throwing them.
The best proof of concept is replication.
I wonder...
🤔Did Romans have Plumbata before encountering these or is the plumbata a Romanized version 9f these?
Hand thrown darts of various sizes pop up at various times and places. The plumbata in particular seems to be about rapid fire, with five darts being carried inside the shield instead of the usual one or two javelins.
@@davidmorningstar thank you
I could see this being very effective in battle.
There is no limit to the inventiveness of our species when it comes to war!
Excellent! Reading that portion of Polybius right now.
Have a look at Tods Workshop, there's a video on there all about the various ancient war darts, including how to launch a plumbata with a staff sling. Very impressive, but I do like your take on the Cestros.
His videos on war darts directly inspired me to go out and film this.
beatifully filmed
Thank you! This is actually my first attempt at talking to the camera and editing together a proper short film to explain something. I did another two and got better with each one.
👍🙂👍
That was one I haven’t seen before.
That is really something! Well done!
Imagine if this was on a staff the speed and energy one could build?
This is great research and development!
Absolutely fascinating!
Very different from Acroballistic's one.
Excellent work sir
Yes, like the chap below. Length of straight round tree branch. Dart flight stuck in one end and tied in. The tip of the dart at the front. A groove towards the rear. A length of string with a know. Wrap it and sling it. Happy days.
Fantastic! Thanks from Chicago
Very cool release mechanism. How far does it go?
You can get well over 100 metres with it but there is a little more drag than with a slingstone so it doesnt go quite as far.
Has Georg Sprave been alerted?
A different camera angle would of been nice to be able to see them fly.. The sky obscured the bolts.
It is very challenging to catch small fast objects on video. I used the sky to silhouette the darts because they werent showing up against the background.
@@davidmorningstar I understand. Thank you for the instructive videos.
Outstanding my good man.!
interesting!
lawn darts were so much fun.
In a word, brilliant!
How far does a typical throw go? What’s the furthest you have thrown it? Good job and good engineering in the release mechanism.
Yes; I found it odd that this information wasn't included. Obviously, different slings and darts will produce different results but it would still be interesting to know how far this combination will shoot.
Thank s for The very Interesting demonstration.
Like the stone sling it would have most likely taken quite a bit of practice in order to use it effectively but this is still a pretty cool little weapon.
Here in the US in the 1970s, kids called them "Lawn Darts." But they were much more deadly.
The lawn darts of the 70's were basically Roman war darts which were probably based on these things, apparently the Romans threw them by hand 🤔
Jarts.
Range and accuracy tests please.
David, could I encourage you to invest in a collar microphone so we can hear what you're saying above the surrounding noise? It would help tremendously. Rode make a very good and economical one. That said, well done on an excllent and entirely workable approximation of the sleing used over 2000 years ago. Very clever!
I bought a directional mic after making this video, my staff sling and Balearic sling videos have much better sound.
Superior quality production. Your instruction is always excellent, with great camera work.
Would of liked to see 6 or 7 loosed to see distance achieved & grouping
Very nice - thanks for the video!
You sir are amazing
Wow, brilliant demonstration. Many thanks.
But do you think that the energy of the projectile is high enough to kill or at least dangerously hurt a person. Especially as the romans used big shields to cover most of the body.
As it was invented after the classical sling was used for centuries, it surely must have been seen as advantages.
And the enemy was set - Rome.
Therefore, my thought (as an amateur) is that the sling must have a higher acceleration to provide more energy.
What do you think?
The slingstone and the dart launch pretty much identically, they fly to the same point of aim. The dart is a little less aerodynamically efficient so it doesnt fly quite as far but it hits with a sharp steel point (not mine of course, but the original ones did) and so they have great penetrating power.
The ammo is more expensive and much more bulky than sling stones or lead bullets so maybe that was enough to stop it being more popular.
Someone well practised, strong and with a heavy sharp pointed dart could seriously ruin your day.
I wish you would post how far it went.
I was only throwing these 70 meters because I had to go and fetch them back. With a full throw they go about as far as arrows, not as far as sling bullets.
robin didn't get his string from amazon !
Very cool. I'd love to see what it can penetrate.
When I was a kid, we called those "lawn darts".
great information 👍👈 success there family 🤝
Thank you, very much.
What are the benefits of a dart vs stone ammo?
I guess darts land with a particular point forward, whereas a stone lands any which way. A dart with a sharp point on it would pierce, but a stone to the head would be effective too.
I'd also guess a stone would go further than a dart, but idk. A golf ball would beat both, I think.
All correct 👍
Would it be worth launching plumbata like that?
If you can hang them at their balance point, yes absolutely.
Impressive! Wouldn't want that coming at me.
Excellent work.
Lawn darts were fun.
I was wondering what would happen if you angled the fletching slightly. This would help to spin stabilize the dart in flight. The only problem might happen when you sling it around your head, it might not like to travel in a circle.
I dont want it trying to twist during the launch. The fins do a great job once it is flying free.
Could it have been thrown with cord wrapped around the shaft to increase speed, force and level flight with some possibilities of distance increasing??
I have done amentum / ankyle throwing, this is way more powerful.
Something related Interesting.
There is a group that wants to sling or synthetically launch small rockets into orbit. They have already demonstrated a small version of their launcher.
Their rockets would still have rocket propellant, but the centrifugal launcher would launch the rocket about halfway into orbit. The other half would be done with rocket propellant.
Yes I saw that, it seems pretty crazy. Technically feasible but I don't see anyone buying into it.
Could you use the same knots and a different material in the 2 cords if the cord holding the dart was able to stretch even 5 percent more then the mechanism cord you could tie it to dart cord and anchor and train to find the inertia point to activate the mechanism ?
The maximum point of stretch would be when the dart is behind you moving sideways, you have to hold on past that and release with the dart moving forwards.
Please show a sling from the pov of target.
I would like to see this with more daylight,in slow motion. What distance with accuracy?
@@leowalker1934 range is a little less than you would expect with stones because of the extra drag. Accuracy is the same as any other sling projectile
Thanks for the great video
Some think primitive people were, well, simple and primitive. But ancient technology at times was incredibly detailed and extremely practical. Granted, this dart is not the pyramids. But still highly effective by accomplishing a lot using very little based on physical principles we better understand today 👍.
Europeans were never primitive, for that you need to visit Africa today.
Lol. Such arrogance. I live in Switzerland and you should see some of my neighbors. Simply barbaric!
I sure as hell would not want to get hit with one of those darts flung like that, but what are the odds of getting hit by one from about a hundred yards? I suppose that if there were two opposing mobs or armies at the proper distance and each started flinging these darts at each other, someone might get hurt. I know I wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn with one. I say that because as a kid I had a sling that would fire a rock very far but I couldn't hit shit with it.
Slingers usually lived their life behind a sling. They were very accurate. That said, if you were lost in the rank and file, your odds of getting hit by one would be a bit slim if you had a shield and the commander ordered you to hold it to block the darts.
while David's demonstration was fine, I have to wonder how effective this method might have been and how fast such a dart or darts could be reloaded during an actual battle when hoards of men were coming at you! Interesting bit of history for sure!
His moniker isn't really David Morningstar is it? It's a psuedonym right?
And why should it be better than a bow? Maybe the caliber of the ammunition? Super interesting though
@@atomchild2619 it can travel farther than a bow and the stones fly at 100 mph. A bullet travels 18 times that speed for reference. It's kinda like a primitive gun to me and if you run out of ammo u can just pick up a random stone off the ground. You can't do that with a bow you have to make all of your arrows etc... Takes more work with a bow
@@atomchild2619 There are pros and cons to every weapon. A dart sling uses very little material, all of it quite common, and is easy to carry and replace if lost or destroyed. and can also quickly abandoned to grab a spear if need be. Slingers tended to be low class soldiers, and the more traditional sling was a very common weapon at the time, so giving your average yokel a dart sling could really shorten the learning curve. the battles in antiquity were almost always set piece battles so they slung in unison. Accuracy wasn't extremely important. Just being able to launch it into a body of men with sufficient force to cause trouble is enough. the reloading time was taken into account in their battle strategies, so was sort of a non issue.
Why not a bow? War bows are expensive, relatively fragile, require constant care, specialized skills to use, useless in bad weather, and difficult to make. And it should be noted that the Macedonians DID employ archers in their army as well, quite good ones. But, again, it's far harder and more expensive to train and arm a group of archers than it is to modify a "peasant weapon" for war and give it to your less specialized soldiers as a way to put more pain in the air between you and your enemies.
@@olinseats4003 In middle ages England it was the law that every man, woman and child over 14 should be fully skilled with the longbow. It's why so many churchyards here have yew trees in them, as a central source of timber for bows. An English archer could fire two more arrows before the first had reached its target.