Review: Sony's 69-CD MItropoulos Box (10 Best Recordings Preview for ClassicsToday.com Subscribers)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2022
- Dimitri Mitropoulos is often described as a victim--of his sexuality, his idealism, his rough ride with the New York Philharmonic, the indifference of Columbia records, and yet this 60+ CD set, taken as a whole, does him justice in great measure. If you're a Classicstoday.com subscriber, head on over to check out the 10 Best Recordings video. If you haven't yet subscribed, please consider signing up here: www.classicstoday.com/classic...
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So glad he gets a box. Love his occasional wildness, especially in opera.
I am pleased that you called attention to the sometimes poor audio but I might have been even more critical. I have both the Sony Walter and Ormandy boxes and, by comparison, the audio restorations from the 40s they received are much better than Mitropoulos receives. There are a few from the early 40s that I will never play again because I found the sound painful. The late 40s are better but when Dimitri left for NY Mercury came to record Minneapolis in the same Northrop Auditorium and the audio results were amazingly better. Still, The performances are so good that I am glad that I purchased this box.
Alec Steinweiss who worked initially for Columbia was the genius who revolutionised cover art and he started with jazz and classical music.
Woow... Finally we got it! One of the greatest genius of the XXth century!
I think that's a push. Does everyone have to be a genius just because you like them?
Lol. Genius answer.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Dear Dave, I think Mitropoulis sold his soul to the music so that he gets us in touch with God. He did great things and other questionable ones but, as his teacher Busoni defined music "as sounding air", listening to his interpretations is like breathing new air.
@@michelangelomulieri5134 Um, I rest my case.
Thanks for keeping up on the new box. I have been too late for so many boxes! What an interesting collection. As usual, David, thanks for the education.
Josef Lhévinne is credited as a pianist in the 1947 recording of the Mozart 3-piano concerto (CD 4), even though he died in 1944. The actual pianist is Rosina Lhévinne. (Info courtesy of a member in my FB group).
No, I think it was the dead guy. Just kidding... Thanks for the correction.
A miracle!
Curiously, the original jacket from 1948 does not list the first names of the pianists in the three-piano concerto. Just "LHEVINNE, VRONSKY AND BABIN pianos" (though Vita Vronsky and Victor Babin are identified in the two-piano concerto). Perhaps Columbia Masterworks was just being coy about the pianist's identity. The misidentification of Josef Lhévinne in the book was Sony's error in 2022.
Wonderful stuff, Dave. Terrifically informative and funny with it. I am learning so much. Thank you.
We sre in trepidation for the Teo Currentzis 10 best recordings.
We'll have to wait... there aren't even 5 of them yet :)
LoL🤣🤣🤣🤣🤭
@@ftumschk lollll
@@ftumschk Have there been any at all so far?
@@danielhornby5581 He recorded a very good Shostakovich 14th Symphony, but that's about it.
I know i keep repeating myself, but i got this Mitropoulos box set also. Super happy about it. This time i first took a listen to a bunch of his albums on Spotify. The i ordered it. I had to wait a looong time though. The thw Mitropoulos & Szell boxes came together. Take care & thanks again.
Enjoy!
I'm very happy that Sony rereleased this box, and hope it does well.
Thanks for such a honest review 👍
Is the Berlioz Symphony Fantastique the one where he uses pianos for the bells in the finale? I remember that Odyssey LP with that feature and thought it was absurd until I discovered that the composer wrote it in the score as a viable alternative.
Thanks for this eagerly awaited survey, Dave. A wonderfully balanced review. The booklet essay curiously ignores Mitropoulos' association with the Met but Bing in his memoirs keenly felt his loss to the Met. Much more a problem for the Met than for the NYP.
I hope those who start out listening to the set in CD order won't be discouraged by the sonic quality of the first three discs or so. It does get better! Even when they were released the Columbia Minneapolis records were considered poor. (In an email audio restoration engineer Dennis Rooney wrote, "The poor sound quality of the Columbia MSO recordings was the principal reason that the orchestra returned to RCA Victor in 1946...The worst are the 1942 and 1945 sessions; there was some improvement in 1946. The infamous Chopiniana set was a low water mark from its first appearance." ) By the way, the first Borodin 2nd recording was made ON Pearl Harbor day. 1941.
I like the way Sony does original jackets with the original backs with notes. Some of it's generic boilerplate but a lot of it's interesting especially about then "new" works.
You just need a magnifying glass to read them.
$/CD is going up quite a bit lately. This is $4/CD, but the earlier Reiner, Szell, Ormandy, et al boxes were 1/2 that. I don't blame Sony at all, they are only now catching on to what these boxes mean to many of us, and Sony in particular does a very fine job even if they are too obsessed with putting the CDs in order of historical release. But gosh, I'm a sucker for many of these boxes! Thanks for the review.
Just for the curious, he died on the rehearsal of Mahler 3rd in Milan, exactly on bar 86, as notated by second bassonist on his particella.
Yes, I didn't want to get into details. Very sad. My brother-in-law's grandfather was playing in the violin section. They have an autographed photo of him.
@@DavesClassicalGuide How small is the world sometimes...It is a touching story...
Siegmeister's Western Suite was about the first classical record I bought. It would have been 1973 maybe. I still love it. I am very curious about Oscar Levant having liked him in movies like 'The Bandwagon' - please could you do a video about him.
Toscanini gave the premiere of the Western Suite in 1945 and Virgil Thomson in his review admired the piece quite a lot.
If you're curious about Oscar Levant; check out the three books he wrote: A Smattering of Ignorance. Memoirs of an Amnesiac and The Unimportance of being Oscar. I read each several years ago and enjoyed them immensely. There are also a couple of other bios. Check out Thriftbooks and Amazon. The 3 he wrote range from not too expensive to ridiculously so. Or see if your local library has copies.
Thanks, Dave, although none of the comments so far seem to be about Mitropoulos!
I had heard some of the Minneapolis recordings before, and the Wozzeck (very good, but to be honest clearly surpassed by others) and was put off by the sonics. However, yes, it’s great the range of repertoire there, and maybe he lucked out that Ormandy, Walter etc we’re doing other things. This is already £200 on Amazon UK, significantly more than the Ormandy or Walter boxes so, really, I’ll have to give it a miss :(
The balances of singers and orchestra was always off putting to me in that Wozzeck. I never looked back once I heard Boulez.
Classical cutouts on vinyl and cassette featuring Mitropoulos were some of my earliest experiences with the music, so I have a fondness for his uniquely individual style of performance. The distant sound added to the mystery a bit. I don't do mega-boxes, as I think it's total insanity, but, enjoy it as you will.
for your informations.....good paper today on the mitropoulos box by cristophe huss in the newspaper ''le devoir'' ( montréal)
I have a vivid memory of my late mother enthusiastically describing DM's conducting, describing how he would "go up onto his toes" even though he was all the way at the back of the box -- essentially hanging off it, if I remember correctly (and it's possible I'm not remembering correctly). She would have seen him in Minneapolis, I'm guessing, because she and my father lived there for a time.
he was incredible, your mother had good taste:-)
DH,Thank you for the review. When I first heard about this I was excepted but my thoughts have cooled considerably. First was the acknowledgment the the quality of the sound would be an issue and you touched upon that. I was intrigued by the diversity of works in the discography and you touched upon that as well. Not the “same old,same old” and that would have balanced out the concerns about the sonics to some degree. I am not a Mitropoulos cultist but there was a feeling he did some good things and he might have gotten some short shrift in the cd reissue craze. This box surely corrects. But combining the issue with imho a rather high price makes this a no- go for me. This may sound extreme but if this ever goes to half price from the present price then it might become of more appropriate and correct value. But we will see if the market will support this price. I believe there were several more comments about price.
Well, about $4/disc is hardly expensive, but of course everyone has their own price point. I do think that this is a luxury or supplement given its "historical" frame of reference.
You could get the stereo recordings on hybrid SACDs available from Sony Japan.
Thank you for mentioning that. I am strongly considering that. I also find the Sony Japan CD/SACD remastering to be excellent even comparing the Sony Japan RBCD layer versus what is Released by Sony USA. I bought all the Szell SonyJapan SACD/CD hybrids and they sound astonishing. I have a couple of Bruno Walter SACDs when Sony introduced SACD(Sony really blew that) and they sound better than what’s in the recent Bruno Walter. Sometimes I think I should have just bought the most recent Walter/SonyJapan CD/SACD hybrids of Brahms,Mozart,Mahler 1,2,9 and I would have been happy.
As a (sane, I hope) admirer of Mitropoulos’ work, I would offer the following observations:
1) I think DM was one of those conductors whose live performances, albeit variable, were, at their best, much better than the recordings. Munch was another, as I think David may have mentioned in a previous review. Hence a collection like this is bound to be incomplete. Fortunately we have access to many of the live performances, with the NYP, the Met, and, in the 50’s, Salzburg and other major European venues.
2) I agree with David’s statement that Columbia’s treatment of DM was based on sound financial judgment. I would go one step further: I think it is more than likely that Columbia and NYP believed they would have a far more profitable product with Bernstein than DM, and they did what they could to make that happen. The bottom line was much more important than anything else, including the sexual orientation of either man.
David’s review is, in my opinion, spot-on. Thanks.
Very sane, thank you, although I have tons of live Mitropoulos and I would not say that he was necessarily better live. He was just variable.
oh, Munch and Mitropoulos...I wish I'd be there live...
Well really, a one-of-a-kind collection of works, by a very individual and interesting interpreter! All those less (and in that time, rather NEVER) recorded classics like Berlioz, Borodin, Rubinstein, Vaughan-Williams, trailblazing recordings of Prokofiev and Shostakovich, all those contemporary American composers exciting to rediscover (even if to ponder why they did not stay long in the spotlight!)... The opera "corner", while only a small part of the recordings, featuring a mix of Berg, Barber and Verdi - how's that for variety and character? On the other hand, no Wagner (!), no Brahms that I noticed, except for the Haydn variations, no Beethoven symphonies except the 6th (!) - but admittedly a tasteful collection of the great Ludwig's other symphonic and concertante works. Wow!
From me, that is not a deriding remark: I love the fact that we have approximately half of the box dedicated to the alternative repertoire, not heavy on the "warhorses". Maybe, the fact that the company had Ormandy, Walter and the like to do the popular stuff, was actually a blessing in disguise as it set Mitropoulos free to explore music more suited his temperament AND that he genuinely cared for - thus recording it for the posterity?! Sure, I would be happy to have more of his Mahler in (better) studio conditions, although that lack is redressed by the conductor's Live recordings from the final decade of his life.
In a word, this is refreshing. And therefore very appealing, sound limitations to be taken in stride. :)
Funny I always avoided his studio Symphonie Fantastique (it was on an Odyssey LP) since more than one reviewer said that it was a pale reflection of his live performances of the work. I'll have to stream it and give it a try
Well, it's kind of hard to hear him do it live.
Anyone have any idea why Sony issued a complete Don Giovanni cond by Mitropoulos....which they left out of the box?
They don't own the rights.
in fairness, the low quality sound of DM's opera recordings make it hard for one to listen to them
Since you've done features on CD boxing and packaging, could you do a tribute to cover artist Alex Steinweiss,
"the inventor of the album cover"? He lived to the age of 94 (1917-2011), and did fantastic 78 album covers
for Columbia and others. Some of them are borderline-Escher in style.
Uh, no. I honestly don't care about album covers, and while I respect superior artwork, that is not a musical issue and so it's a topic for another forum.
Why is this box so expensive compared to the other Sony big boxes?
Josef Lhévinne's contribution to Mozart's Concerto for 3 Pianos and Orchestra (cd 4, 3-6) adds not only to the performance's spiritual qualities, but enhances it with a very spiritistic valeur of its own, indeed!
As an acute observer somewhere else on the internet noticed: the recording, according to the set's extensive discographic details, allegedly originates from November 1947, at which point Josef Lhévinne had been dead for almost 3 years. He died on the 2nd of December, 1944.
Either the recording company messed severly with the date (if so, the error is consequently upheld in the book, as it is found as well in the track list for the individual cd as in the discographic appendix at the end of the book) - or it was the other Lhévinne, the late Josef's widow, Rosina, who participated in the recording together with Babin and Vronsky (In the German dictionary of pianists, "Pianisten Profile" by Harden and Willmes (2008) the recording is discographically attributed to her without any doubt).
Although Rosina Lhévinne sacrifized her own career as a solo concert pianist for her husband's and only left a meagre recorded legacy, she was a splendid pianist in her own right. Graduating from the Moscow Conservatory in 1898, she was awarded a gold medal - as had earlier been her former teacher and soon to be husband, Josef.
Her main career was as a piano teacher, where she since 1924 taught at the Julliard School of Music for several decades. Among her students were, to mention but a few notabilities: Van Cliburn, John Browning, Garrick Ohlsson, conductor James Levine and conductor/composer John Williams.
Wikipedia conveys the astonishing Information, that she had her debut with the New York Philharmonic in January 1963, where she, aged 82, played Chopin's Piano Concerto No. 1 under Bernstein. A piece she had also played at her graduation from the Moscow Conservatory 65 years earlier!
At around the same time she recorded this concerto under Barnett on Vanguard, and Mozart's Piano Concerto in C major, KV 467 (No. 21) under Morel for CBS. Harden and Willmes praise these recordings, making no allowances at all for possible, age-related technical deficiences: ''every note in place' ('Jeder Ton "sitzt"') in a performance characterized by eloquence and 'admirable liveliness and certainty' ('dies mit bewundernswerter Lebendigkeit und Sicherheit'). They see these recordings as the testimony of a powerfull and impressive artistic personality, undiminished.
If you read the comments you would see that this has already been discussed.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ach, what is it, they say: Better late than never, but never late! My only apology: maybe somebody's curiosity will be awakened about Rosina - that is, if the delete button has not already been activated!
29:39 Ah, the English critics... I recall some critic from BBC Music Magazine whining how the trumpeting was so very "blowsy" in Jean Martinon's recording of Ravel's La Valse. I think the interpretation of that piece should be so damn far from delicate as possible, especially the ending.
Does the box contain the Casadesus Beethoven Emperor Concerto?
Yes, and I said so.
Whoa! I had no idea that VVW 4 existed in a stereo format! The sonics were good for their time, either way.
He was talking about The Theme By Thomas Tallis. That is in stereo. The VW 4th is mono.
I have have two superficial complaints about this box:
1) The box is way too big for 69 CDs. Mostly filled with air.
Sony put the Complete Charles Munch (86 CDs) into a box half the size of this. The Munch came with a smaller, but equally nice book, just without all the blank white space on each page.
2) Some of the couplings annoy me.
Why is Roger Sessons 2nd Symphony coupled with Lalo's Overture to le Roy d'Ys?
Why is the Chausson Symphony coupled with Walton's Portsmouth Point Overture?
P.S. The (stereo) New York recording of Vaughan Williams Tallis Fantasia is sensibly re-coupled with the (mono) New York recording of VW's 4th Symphony. Rare example of defying the mania for original couplings.
Oh, I see you here, Mr. Fowler. I enjoy reading your reviews on Amazon. I really appreciate your valuable information.
Completely agree with you especially the first one.
Hi John. I get what you mean about too much space in some of these multi disc boxes. I must admit though, that I'm more bothered about the tightness of the discs in other boxes, notably some of the Warner issues. It can be a challenge to extract individual sleeves and I wouldn't say I have fat fingers. Of course, the remedy is to take out a few cd sleeves at a time by taking the booklet out and angling the box, although I have had a few mishaps doing this with all the sleeves sliding out in my lap or worse, all over the floor.
Imagine complaining about receiving a box of (FREE) complimentary air.
The entitlement nowadays... children in Africa could have eaten that air!
Since this issue Sony Don't issue any other boxset what happen to them?
They only do one or two a year, if that.
i see this video ,and i see your enjoyment ,,,,and i think at one video you can make in the future...what is the personnality of a music lover,what is a personnality of a cd classical music collector...? we know,the classical music is a world of beauty,discovery,interest,etc and classical music is history to and anecdote to....the people who listen the classical music is so different about other people...? i d,ont talk about people who assist at a concert just for the standing ,but the minimal people who LISTEN classical music with great interest and passion,,,,what is the psychology of this people....? and i repeat ...we are different about other people....?...we live better....? with what happening around the world ,and close to home....?...i listen in the pass a radiobroadcasting about this subject ,and this is very interresting...and you mr hurwitz ,what is your point about that....?
V interesting questions to which I wish I knew the answers..
i believe these people's psychology, as you say, is carefully directed by social media and the latest hype around the young and the pretty. someone famous recently told me, sadly, that peopel nowadays listen to music with their eyes not with their ears. About being a listener of classicla music, I'd say, listening is re-listening when it comes to classical music, and especially symphonies. The good news = if you already have a tendency to like it, don't be afraid of it, go to concerts, listen carefuly( the operative word is listen) and not long after you shall 'understand' what it's all about. reading a good ( objective) book on music history will help a lot as well. the bad news= liking/understanding symphonies I am convinced depends on the performance/conductor of the particular performance. Use your common sense, try not to fall for much advertisement, especially if it follows a global hype. for what is worth, I am agreeing a lot with this fine gentleman doing the reviews on this youtube channel. take care