Caroline Bingley: Secretly the Most Valuable Player of Pride and Prejudice. I know, I know, but hear me out. This video is sponsored by ME, and MY BOOK: books2read.com/juststabmenow (Or at your local bookshop, though they may have to order it in specially) Watch the Just Stab Me Now videos: th-cam.com/video/eEE_pqix1dQ/w-d-xo.html Come see me in Canterbury: www.waterstones.com/events/talk-by-fantasy-romance-author-jill-bearup/canterbury-rose-lane Read Pride and Prejudice for free: www.gutenberg.org/files/1342/1342-h/1342-h.htm One version of the audiobook of Pride and Prejudice: th-cam.com/video/eVHu5-n69qQ/w-d-xo.html Merch: jill-bearup.myspreadshop.com
In the middle of JSMN now! (Just realized that this looks better in print than saying it out loud😅!) Wish I could’ve seen you in Canterbury (one of my destinations), but had to put off the trip until the Spring. Cheers from the US😊
Every plot needs a good catalyst! You make excellent points. The Gardner's are instrumental in helping Darcy showcase his changes - all the more effective since he's just being decent and not pretending - and Lady Catherine is sort of the Caroline for Lizzie - her pushing forces Lizzie to front up in 'public' and totally sets her resolve about her feelings for the main man. But since her opinion of him really changes when he's honest with her - in that marvelous letter - I would agree that Caroline is the real lynchpin of the plot and that does indeed make her the MVP. 😊
My God, that Austen woman could turn a phrase. I can't think of any other writer so masterful at integrating her own sense of sarcasm into third-person prose.
That is one reason she is still read two hundred years after she wrote and published her books. Robert Heinlein had a clever comment about her: "She could create more tension in a drawing room with people seated than most novelists can with action." (Approximately, according to my uncertain memory.)
@@AndyZach It's true. I think a lot of writers put too much stock in the notion that the higher the stakes, the greater the drama, and so they always reach for the top shelf, where everything is a matter of life and death. But that limits the scope of storytelling to a relatively small number of subjects. And yet, Austen's stakes were just as intense, and much more relatable. If one of her heroines played it wrong in the drawing room, she could end up destitute. Elizabeth That's pretty serious stakes, even if swords aren't involved. So once you establish that this is what's at stake, parlor repartee takes on enormous of gravity.
The number of times I have been reading an Austen book and about choked on food or drink with her ability to throw back-handed insults in the sweetest of proper society tones. LOL
@@maleldil1 Good point. I mean, Pratchett is just funny, and an absolute master of wordplay. He can be sarcastic, but his books aren't the tour-de-force of savage sarcasm that Austen's are. I kinda think Austen's sarcasm benefits from being the sole source of humor in her writing (except perhaps for the straightforward descriptions of Lydia's air-headedness, which are just funny.) While Pratchett ranges effortlessly from descriptive wordplay ("his face appeared to have been badly savaged by a mustache") to dumb puns ("let's go sleigh them") to rich, hilarious metaphor ("Ankh-Morpork is as full of life as an old cheese on a hot day, as loud as a curse in a cathedral, as bright as an oil slick, as colourful as a bruise, and as full of activity, industry, bustle and sheer exuberant busyness as a dead dog on a termite mound.”) So while his sarcasm could be said to match Austen's, I feel it's overshadowed by other virtues, and doesn't really get to shine on its own the way Austen's does.
The value of the jealous rival in a romance cannot be oversold! But it is important that you know I attempted to watch the video at lunch at which point 4 out of 5 of my children crowded around me (ages 7, 5, and twin 4s) and watched the VAST majority of it ATTENTIVELY. My five year old son has declared that he "wants to watch this movie." You kept them riveted.
Jane Austen really wrote a novel where the character called "Jane" is the prettiest and nicest character. I kinda love the confidence/sass behind that~
I always thought that was amazing. Jane Fairfax in Emma is one of the best characters too. Nice to know of someone else who obviously LIKED her own name! 😁 So I can feel comfortable using my name in stories I write too! 😊
Jane was also the doormat, bowing to expectations, who didn't achieve her happy ending so much as had it arranged for her by others while Lizzie worked towards her goals. Just saying, Jane Austen didn't make her namesake a Mary Sue nor the central character which is far better writing than most authors manage with their namesakes.
I kid you not, the biggest lesson I've ever got from a piece of writing is when Caroline is pushing Darcy about Elizabeth and he only has lovely things to say - the: "He then went away, and Miss Bingley was left to all the satisfaction of having forced him to say what gave no one any pain but herself." and I remember this quote every single time when I'm about to be unnecessarily petty or sarcastic or mean about anything, especially when I have the tendency to pretend that I don't care about something even though I really do - it got me through puberty I'd say
Yes. Literature endures because of such bits of wisdom about human nature. Some of them stick with us and guide us through our lives. Congrats at reading Austen at such a young age.
This is what sets Austen apart for me. Her ability to recognize human traits that we all understand but are subliminal to us, and put them into words in a way that has never been done, such that our reaction is "YES!!!! I recognize that!!!"
@@jkalb1744 No, I'm pretty sure Miss Bingley and Lady Catherine never met... I think it was a rumor that Mr Collins heard and then "so loyally" relayed to his "ever gracious benefactor". Maybe he just heard Charlotte speculate one morning at breakfast (she has a very insightful mind, after all).
This is one of the key points on which the Garson-Olivier version changed the tenor of the story into a light comedy: that she did it on purpose to find out exactly what Elizabeth felt.
@@katyvdb5993 Edward Austen Knight. Apparently I was mistaken about being 8 times, it's only 6 times great niece. Edit: I'm reading conflicting accounts as to how far removed. Some say 6, some say 8.
I played Caroline Bingley in a theatrical adaptation many years ago, and it’s left me with a big soft spot for her. Even at the time I thought she was for sure the second-best character to play (barring Lizzie, of course), because playing the character who says what everyone is thinking (or so she believes) is enormously fun. She’s in a bit of a tight spot, if we’re being honest, and I can’t say I blame her for wanting Darcy. What she didn’t understand going in is He’s Just Not That Into You, and nothing she could say or do was going to change it. But as you say, she was eminently capable of raising Lizzie’s esteem in Darcy’s eyes, both by contrast and by constantly taking a position that Darcy felt a need to contradict. The Gardiners were pivotal both in bringing Lizzie to Derbyshire at an opportune time, and in demonstrating that not ALL of Lizzie’s relationship were terrible and embarrassing. But neither of those things would have had any consequence without Caroline unintentionally pushing Darcy toward Lizzie, both passively and actively.
In the novel Jane Austen spelled Eliabeth's nickname Lizzy. Did you read the novel? You should know that if you did. The "ie" spelling is much more modern. Rember this novel was published in 1813, and Austen had actually written it 15 to 20 years before.
@@peachygal4153 it has been 30 years since I read the novel, and my memory is not good enough to remember a detail like that, especially when SO many other people spell it Lizzie. Also, I don’t particularly care how it’s spelled.
Caroline warning Elizabeth was always one of my favorite parts. They're rivals (at least in Caroline's mind) but she's still a girl's girl enough to speak up. Of course Elizabeth doesn't trust her but it was a solid attempt. Respect.
Or, to put it another way, Lizzie is her rival, but she doesn't hate her enough to let her get involved with a true villain without someone warning her of his true character.
Caroline could have gotten rid of her rival by letting Elizabeth continue on with Wickham. To me, it’s totally out of character for her to help her rival. Unless she thought Elizabeth would do the opposite of anything Caroline said! It’s a nice touch by Austen to give Caroline some humanity.
I always thought that it was quite the reverse... basically reverse psychology. If you assume that Caroline was generally intelligent (which she was), and also that she knew that Elizabeth didn't like or trust her or Darcy very much... suggesting to Elizabeth that, honest to God, I don't have any evidence but you should really trust me when I say that the guy you like wronged the guy you don't like rather than vice versa... I could easily see how that would push Elizabeth further to Wickham. There's also the fact that, outside the story, Austen has already made Caroline's character quite clear, so it's also creating a 'red herring' for the reader to continue to believe that Wickham was wronged by Darcy, because of course Caroline can't be believed.
I can see all of these points in what Caroline was possibly trying to do "warning" Lizzy about Wickham. But what I think she was really trying to do was mock her... "Oh, Lizzy, you poor dear! You're favorite, Mr. Wickham, is really a rogue. What a backward, country simpleton you are..."
@@shiyajanzen2519 Yeah I always thought Caroline was just looking for more ways to embarrass her - not help her lol! Caroline hates Lizzie and she’s absolutely just being condescending in that moment. Caroline obvi wants Darcy for herself, but even more she’s trying to take Lizzie down a peg. Classic mean girl😂
Caroline is a perfect foil for Lizzie. In a way, she is a better marriage option than Lizzie (comes from trade but has money and her brother is besties with Darcy, who is a nephew of an earl, so yeah for connections?) and she is technically more accomplished that all the Bennett girls who never had a governess. BUT, despite all that, she is a template (probably unconsciously) for Darcy as to what he doesn't want in a wife. Between her and meek and sickly Anne, no wonder that Darcy preferred to to a personality 180 😅 Also, despite how Caroline is portrayed in the adaptations, it is worth remembering that she is most likely rather young. Lizzie names her both 'insolent girl' and 'young lady'. Coupled with the fact that she is not panicking about being an old maid and her being friends with 16 year old Georgiana seems fine with Darcy, the suggestion is that she is probably between 18 and 21. If she is 18 or 19, some of her more questionable choices make a lot of sense. She is trying her best with limited knowledge and female support. As for other MVPs, I always find cute how much Darcy comes to like the Gardiners. For all his moaning about Lizzie's poor connections, in the end, he probably thought her Cheapside family the best dowry she could bring :) BTW, do you think he ever asked for that £50 a year?
This would explain a lot actually, in all versions I have seen so far she’s usually portrayed as mid/end 20s. 2) absolutely agree on the Gardeners, they cement that money and class don’t always go together (in both directions). I believe they grew a lovely strong relationship after the wedding. 3) ha! I think he’d rather die of shame 😂
Despite any negative issues that the Bennetts have, they are landed gentry. ""I am a gentleman's daughter," Lizzy states. In this time period, it creates great value for Bingley to marry into.
@@shereeostrow8808 Yes; despite being rich Bingley married up when he married Jane. Caroline is looking for a similar social mobility. And when Charles became landed gentleman, her own standing improved. But let's not pretent that money never was 'the ace up someone's sleeve'. Caroline with her dowry and friends would make an atractive prospects to someone who may already have a status but maybe could do with some extra cash. Isn't it why struggling lords were marrying american 'princesses'? And Darcy was considering Bingley a possible match for Georgiana. Which actully says a lot of about his character; looking for a good man for his sister rather than some mean old lord and stuffy gentleman.
Honestly I feel the fact that one *can* have a hot take on such an old work speaks more to the longevity of the work than the outdatedness of the hot-take-haver.
Wonderful analysis. I always got the feeling that Mr. Bingley fell for Jane so hard not just because she was beautiful, but because she was kind and without guile, much like himself, which was a direct contrast to the type of woman either sister was. Also: Love your book!
I love the Bingley-Jane match bc it’s so the opposite of Darcy-Elizabeth. The juxtaposition of the two couples is always welcome in a rom/romcom. Except for Bingley being pressured to leave Jane, there’s no pride, no prejudice, no arrogance…
Only mentioned briefly here, but for some reason Charlotte is the character that stuck with me more than any other. While I absolutely LOVE Pride and Prejudice, much of its structure and themes feel extremely familiar (if only because it inspired so much of modern romance.) That considered, it feels so interesting in a story about characters finding true love matches, Charlotte is someone who settles for a practical marriage. I love how this isn’t viewed as a good thing or a bad thing. She doesn’t get the happiness of a romance heroine, but she carves out a life she is comfortable in. I often find myself thinking of her character arc.
I think it's portrayed as a bad thing. Austen is sympathetic to the fact that it is a necessity. But she's also a warning about marrying only for practicality, which Austen was against. Charlotte co exists with her husband and tries to avoid him at all costs. Sense and Sensibility has the same message with Willoughby and Miss Grey and Fanny and John, Mary and Charles in Persuasion- and hence the prospect of Anne and Mr Elliot, Mariah and Mr Rushworth and Mansfield Park. The opposite end is Lydia, who marries for lust. It makes the choices of Jane and Lizzie seem more practical.
Charlotte is a critical character, though most effectively behind the scenes. I think she most clearly saw what was happening between Darcy and Lizzie very early on, encouraging Lizzie to dance with Darcy when L so wanted to refuse. And she was the one in near proximity to Rosings who read what was emotionally transpiring between L & D. She offhandedly mentioned the connection to Collins, which led him to rush to Meryton to warn the Bennets that such a rumor must be quash immediately. And nobody knew, least of all Lizzie, where the rumor had come from.
@@MsJubjubbird I don't quite agree. I think Austen's ideal for a marriage match were in the mouth of Mr. Bennet (conveniently, one of the few people that Elizabeth unequivocally listens to), but Charlotte made a very good decision, at least for herself. She 'settled', yes... but she was far older than Elizabeth, had even less to offer, and a larger family for anything to be given to. I think the most important part of Charlotte's choice was that it was her choice, and she made it in full knowledge. (This would be unlike Mr. and Mrs. Bennet's marriage, where I'd say that Mr. Bennet did not make the decision to marry in full knowledge.) She knew what she was getting into, and still chose it. I can only respect someone who makes that kind of decision.
@@NemisCassander as I said, Austen is sympathetic to her circumstances, but she doesn't promote marriage for convenience. Charlotte feels she has no choice, being neither wealthy not beautiful and past her prime, but Austen makes a point that it is not a happy marriage and Charlotte has regrets. She was never an advocate for marriage of convenience or of impulse. Willoughby feels he has no choice but to marry Miss Grey and he is also unhappy. Mary Elliot marries Charles and they are both unhappy. on a wider scale,.she's commenting on the lack of choice there is for women at the time, but doesn't support marriages for practicality.
In our contemporary view it is a burn. It is not easy to see it in the context of that time. Life expectancy was shorter. Adulthood commenced at an earlier age. Death in childbirth was far more common. Women married young. Widowers often remarried to women of child-bearing age. Children were a primary goal for marriage. Farmers needed field hands. The wealthy needed heirs. Darcy was wealthy because he managed an estate full of tenant farmers.
@valkyriesardo278 It's a burn from Austen, as well. Everything Darcy and Lizzy say about it directly states how gross it is that a man his age would run away with a girl of "but 15 years of age". The book is set in the 1700s, not paleolithic times. It had been generally considered inappropriate at best and downright villainous at worse to marry anyone younger than around 18-20 for a couple of centuries by that point--Shakespeare makes a big deal of it in Romeo and Juliet, when Paris (in his twenties) wants to marry Juliet, who is 14. He's a prince and her dad initially resists, and gives the reason because his own wife married him young, and childbirth damaged her so she only had their 1 daughter. He essentially says (but Shakespearean-ly) "girls married and bedded too young are too likely to die or be gravely injured in childbirth, nobody wants that". Jane Austen grew up very aware of Shakespeare and the cultural norms of her day. Look up contemporary writers of the time---they didn't use the word "paedophile" but even in Henry VIII's time (200 years earlier) it was only considered okay to marry 15-year-olds to people of similar age. Not to much older people. And. All of this probably stemmed from the last famous young marriage of a girl to a grown man--Henry VIII's grandmother was married at 13 and gave birth at 14, and it nearly killed her. She never had any other children, no pregnancies that we know of, and she never forgave her family for "sending a girl to do a woman's job". They knew at the time (the 1400s) that it was risky and frowned upon, but she was the daughter they had and they wanted power. Perverts existing throughout history has never meant that most people weren't disgusted by adults who are attracted to young teens. It's always been gross.
@@amandasheard4000Actually Juliet's age was not Shakespeare's issue. But the fact her parents were so neglectful they didn't even KNOW her age without asking the nurse first, and wanting to marry off their only child without even seeming to feel they would MISS her. Not to mention their stupid bloody feud which the young people had more sense about than their elders, which was quite a subversive message for the day. NOT teens getting married. That would not have even shocked the Victorians. 18 was most certainly not the lower range in the 19th century. 12 was still legal. And 'a lad of 21 generally looks for a wife of 17.' Marrying CHILDREN has always been seen as gross. Marrying FULLY BIOLOGICALLY DEVELOPED teenagers - not until the 21st century. Teenagers weren't even a thing until the 20th century, and growing up in the 90s no one called our ancestors 'disgusting' for marrying in their teens, just because we no longer have any reason to do so.
I adore P&P, and I'm old enough to have enjoyed it in all it forms. Caroline Bingley is a favorite of mine. She makes sure that Bingley knows what he doesn't wants in a wife, Caroline makes Lizzie look even better to Darcy. Caroline Bingley is in a way the support our girls need.
One of the things that make Darcy so attractive is the way he sees through and despises Caroline's "mean girl" act. Every single one of us who was bullied by a Caroline at school loves him :)
Not only did I persist to the end, the talking down to that Lizzie gives Lady Catherine? Perfection. I will forever love the casting of the BBC series. The actors, the looks, the expressions, the moments. Someone knew the characters and had faces for them. Collins especially. The casting there was perfect too.
This was a great video! I have the Shapard annotated Pride & Prejudice, and in the notes to the scene where Lizzy declines to walk with Caroline, Mrs Hurst, and Darcy he points out that Lizzy's mention of the picturesque is a subtle reference to William Gilpin (an author Jane Austen admired). Gilpin often mentioned cattle when discussing his ideas of the picturesque, and a grouping of three was ideal. So basically, Lizzy is implying that the three are cattle. Shapard further notes that Darcy, as a reader, might have caught Lizzy's allusion to Gilpin, but that it's quite doubtful that Caroline or Mrs Hurst would have. I love learning about things like this, as it just makes me admire Austen's writing even more. The subtle sass!
Thanks for acknowledging the Gardiners. While politely disagreeing about the relative merits of the Gardiners vs. Caroline Bingley, this member of the Aunt Gardiner fan club salutes you and Ms. Bingley for your excellence.
Thanks for the point about sassing and playing piano! People assume playing the piano and singing/chatting is as easy and when you play a guitar. I play both and it is NOT the case! Those jazz pianists in media who are wisecracking while they play are WICKED impressive.
When I was 11, I had to read for school, in succession, Jane Eyre (which I didn’t care for), David Copperfield (which was boring), and Robinson Crusoe (which I was disappointed to learn is 70% moping, 25% social commentary, and only 5% adventure story). It was a multi-month slog. When I learned the next book on the reading list was Pride and Prejudice, I groaned. Then I read the whole thing in an afternoon. To sum up: go read the book. It’s a delight.
I feel like I should give a shout out to the time that the Lizzie Bennet Diaries cast played the game “Marrying Mr. Darcy.” The actresses for the sisters played as their characters, but Darcy’s actor played as Caroline and proceeded to absolutely dominate and get everything that Caroline would have wanted 😂
@@msshellm8154 It’s my personal favorite as far as Austen adaptations go-the cast is fantastic and the writers did an excellent job of translating the book to a modern setting, with Lizzie as a grad student vlogging her life. It’s here on TH-cam, so you can watch it for free :)
The beauty of any truly good book is that all characters present help lead to the destination-in other words-I could never pick, but watching Caroline is hilarious.
I have to say, I only started to seriously dislike Caroline after she treated Jane so horribly during her London stay. That was really inexcusable. Before that...well. All is fair in love and war, as they say. And if you put yourself in her position and see Lizzy from her point of view... wouldn't most of us go to some length, to defend our claim on a love interest against a new rival? Of course she tried her best, to keep Darcy's attention. Assuming that she wasn't just after his money and station, but actually liked him, watching him fall in love with someone else, must have been very painful. I can't quite remember...were her feelings for him ever actually laid open in the book? Because in the series, she actually really looked hurt at times, when he rejected her.
Considering that Lizzie, who we all know is prejudiced and has no reason to care about Caroline, notes her attraction to Darcy, I think we're supposed to assume Caroline really did want to be with Darcy - if she'd just been after his money there were other prospects in London.
Caroline is trying to protect her brother from an imprudent marriage. She wants to promote the family’s elevation in society being made possible by their new money.
This was fantastic. I always loved how Caroline's antics completely backfired on her. I always felt just a little bit that her needling pushed Darcy towards Lizzy specifically because he was obstinately avoiding Caroline's advances and purposefully being contrary to her comments. I was a little sad for her that she didn't get anything in the way of her own happy ending, because she's not a TERRIBLE person. She's a mean girl with a crush, but she's civil at least.
She actually is kind where she needs to be. She genuinely does try and warn Lizzie about Wickham, but doesn't know what happened. When Jane is sick she makes sure she is cared for. When Darcy and Lizzie bicker she tries to diffuse the situation. And she does accept the wedding ore readily than Lady Catherine. I think she's just so insecure about her origins in the working class that it overrides her sense of decency. Marrying Darcy and Georgiana marrying her brother would firmly cement their position Making fun of less wealthy gentry also makes her feel elevated
This is exactly the content for me. But the thing that made me laugh the most was video Jill saying there might be an audiobook update, then the cut to editing Jill: "Look, I'm not going to say the audiobook is cursed..."
The only thing worse than audio engineering is live broadcast recording; when it goes wrong, and you lose the beginning, you just leave the building, go to the docks, sign onto a dubious merchantman before the mast, and next thing you know you're being hanged in Port Royal.
I just want to say, your experience writing a book has prompted me to finally sit down and finish my own. I started it when I was twelve... I'm now 34. A lot of revision is needed lol, but the idea never left me. So thank you for inspiring me to take the plunge. Still have no idea how to publish it, but one crisis at a time eh...😉
Wishing you the very best of luck! Amazon has channels for self-publishing that are quite easy to navigate, if you can bear to feed THAT swollen beast! 😂
I always thought that Caroline Bingley was interested in the idea of Mr Darcy, rather than the man himself. Fashionable people make fun of the country rubes, so they chat about fashionable things. But this notion of 'fashion' is a form of behavior rather than an actual personality. She's trying to attract the attention of her brother's friend without having a genuine connection with him. Point in case, Georgiana. She knows the girl, but she doesn't know how the child is shy, extraordinarily in awe of her brother, and still quite wounded by Wickham's treachery. I think the interaction at Pemberly, when Caroline snipes in front of Georgiana, is the end of Mr Darcy's patience with her efforts. When the two ladies are contrasted against each other--Caroline who knows the players but none of the particulars, versus Lizzie who can empathize with Georgiana's pain because she was also deceived--Caroline loses the character war. And I don't think she ever knew the competition was about 'content vs form.' She thought form was all that mattered.
I love this video. I'd be delighted to hear more scalding hot takes on Regency literature by you. The fun of a spiteful, conniving, snobbish, provincial, self-deluding character is that they make a plot GO! If everyone behaved sensibly, sweetly, and wisely, the book would be rather short and rather dull.
The mini series is something of a new years day tradition in my house, It’s the perfect way to spend a sleepy morning (and afternoon) and ring in the new year
This is actually very timely!! I'm having a movie night next Friday to introduce to a friend who had never watched P&P. I'm going to watch it with all new eyes. 😂
@Just_Sara in an ideal world, we would start with the British miniseries because...Colin Firth. Alas, due to time constraints and my concern that she will not appreciate Colin Firth, we're watching the Keira Knightley version. 😄
@@lael5327 Anyone who does not appreciate Colin Firth is not someone I could be friends with! 😂 What's not to appreciate?! He's charming, has a lovely voice, and is bloody good looking, even now! Perhaps it's because I've grown up watching him in things, because my mum loves him, but seriously, while I do like Matthew MacFadyn, and he is a very handsome man, Colin Firth just has.... Something about him, that never seems to diminish.
@@cmm5542 he really is one of those men who is the epitome of "English Gentleman" and he really does genuinely come across as a nice guy ("not NiceGuytm" lolz)
As someone who first watched this channel because of your Lizzie Bennet Diaries video, this brings me joy! Also, I must add that Caroline's counterpart in LBD is even more of an MVP, since she 1) Is trying to get her brother back to med school (albeit failing), 2) Actually ingratiates herself to Lizzie and manipulates her into saying cruel things about Darcy to the internet, which eventually helps his character development, 3) Takes some of Catherine de Bourgh's role at the end in getting Lizzie to realize she likes Darcy, and 4) Actually managed to cross over to the companion series Emma Approved, getting to marry a rich jerk like she always wanted.
Ironically, the best match for Caroline was probably Colonel Fitzwilliam. He has higher social status than Darcy (I believe; the son of an earl is better than the grandson of an earl, right?), is very agreeable... but has very little money, as he isn't to inherit the earldom. We know exactly how much money Caroline has, and we know she's a social climber. Her connections are, technically, worse than Elizabeth's (if her money was made in trade, that directly implies that her father isn't a gentleman, further shown when we find out that he never purchased an estate), so he would also have faced friction there, but the money would probably help.
You know? You have made an EXCELLENT point here! I still deeply dislike Caroline Bingley, but if her “it was kindly meant” comment was actually genuine, as you argue, then I might actually respect her in a way I didn’t before.
I am assuredly not a P&P fan, but I watched this all the way through because I love Jill's sense of humor and way of explaining things. And her sense of humor. BTW, I DID love Just Stab Me Now.
To readers of the time, Caroline’s claim to “mend pens remarkably well” is both a rather bold claim (everyone hated that task and would rather sell used quills back to a stationer to be mended by a professional if they could. It was also seen as the lowliest job of lower-level,school masters, to mend their students’ pens, which is why steel pen adoption spread so quickly) as well as having a slight intimate tone, as Darcy insisted he preferred to mend his own, presumably to his own personal tastes and preferences. Like offering to make someone a sandwich implying you know just how they might like it.
A great and entertaining analysis! I follow Dr. Octavia Cox, who does wonderful and scholarly deep dives into literature from the period, but she hasn't done an Austen video for quite a while. My take on that scene where Caroline goes on about accomplished women, and Darcy responds that women must also improve their minds with extensive reading: I think he's giving Lizzy a pointed compliment and Caroline a pointed reprimand for poking fun at "boring" Lizzy. He approves of her entertaining herself quietly with a book. Caroline must have remembered that when she later took up the second volume of a book he was reading, but shows us all that when it comes to serious mind-improvement via reading, she has the attention span of a gnat. And oh, the proposal scenes! Mr. Collins: "Let me run through a totally unromantic list of my reasons why I would be happy to be married." Mr. Darcy: "I despise your entire family, but will you marry me?" Finally, an opinion shared by some but not all Austenites: Mr. Darcy's transformation isn't so unbelievable if you see that it's not a swollen pride that's driving his behavior in the early scenes, but rather social anxiety. In Georgiana, it's expressed as extreme shyness. In Darcy, it comes out as being grumpy and extremely uncomfortable in a crowd of people he doesn't know, and snapping at his best friend who tries to get him to loosen up a bit. He's most comfortable at home, spending a quiet evening with people that he knows well.
And, somewhat in Caroline’s defense, I have seen it argued that there are clues that Caroline is actually a little younger than Elizabeth rather than the same age or older (as she’s usually depicted). Her behavior does make more sense as the clumsy actions of an 18 year old who just left a girls’ school.
So VERY well spoken YET AGAIN my friend! And speaking of rainstorm, I DO so hope that our own resident Hot Editor is NOT in the part of Italy that is in the midst of deluge and flooding.
@@classicsloverThank you! It is bright and sunny where I am enroute from Rome to Venice! I am not, of course, trying to make either of you envious here. Not in the least 😁
@@cmm5542 Hmmm...methinks with those last two sentences, your nose may actually be growing. I mean, you ARE in Italy. Are you perchance travelling through Tuscany right now? Historical residence of Jiminy Cricket, et al.
@cmm5542 Ha! You knew I was talking about the not trying to make us jealous part! And...was watching Come September with Rock Hudson and Gina Lolabrigita tonight. Set in Italy. Yes I'm jealous.=)
Mr. Collins doesn’t get enough credit for his part either. Had he not married been obsessed with Lady Catherine de Bourgh and married Charlotte, Lizzie wouldn’t have had half as many encounters with Darcy and Darcy wouldn’t have proposed and written the letter. Not only that, but it’s because of his and Charlotte’s gossip with Lady Catherine de Bourgh that she pays her visit to Lizzie demanding that she promise to refuse Mr. Darcy.
I don't know if I agree on the MVP stuff. I always took Lady Catherine de Bourgh as the antagonist, and Caroline more as a Greek chorus exemplifying the views of a Regence society. When Elizabeth and Darcy danced, they were of a mind as you said, but they were both immature and needed to grow up before they would admit it. The thing I always liked about Austen's novels is there is always a moment when the heroine stands up and says to society, "no I won't." Those moments are why I read Austen. That and the dialogue. No one writes dialogue like Jane.
Whoo! Just finished reading Pride and Prejudice, so it's very fresh on the brain. Absolutely perfect timing, Jill! My favorite youtuber talking about my most recent read? What a great early-day treat!
This was a wonderful analysis of Pride and prejudice and a lovely re evaluation of Caroline Bingley (it's also a great follow up to your series on Pride and prejudice adaptations)
I have been a Caroline supporter since forever. I love her. She's everything I think many people would become in this environment, cause Caroline isn't settled socially. Her brother is still in trade, which hurts her prospects with gentlemen, yet she's too wealthy to settle for a lower gentry position - like Mr Bennet or Mr Gardiner. She doesn't fully belong in either world, so she's clinging to what she can. Does she go about things in the best way? No. Do I think she's who I would be in this situation? Yes.
And I learned a lot from her about how to handle people trying to take advantage of me. Would I be indiscriminately scornful? No, I hope not. Would I treat WICKHAMS the way she does? Oh yes 😁
Mr.Bingley is no longer personally in trade. His father made a (very large) packet, and apparently retired. So Charles never need work and his sisters have large dowries. But I agree that the sisters' prospects are somewhat dimmed by the association. (I've always wondered what Mr. Hurst's origins were. Younger son of a noble house? Someone else whose father was also in trade?)
As someone eagerly awaiting the audiobook, I am happy to wait for as long as it takes! Also, I totally love deep dives into books because as an ND person, I don't always derive the intended information from a book I read and often times I miss things entirely. Deep dives give me other perspectives that can clarify why stuff sometimes happens the way it does. I still remember reading a book ages ago where something happened in the ending (a character cut their thumb after another character asked them something) where the meaning was implied, but I still (25 years later) don't understand what it meant. Deep dives can clarify a lot of this stuff for me and show me things from a perspective different from my own, which is veeeery helpful 💖
Very clever analysis! Of course a good romance needs antagonists! And one who is sprinkled throughout, like chili flakes, is especially useful to an author!
I always felt that in the miniseries scene where Caroline brings up the militia and Wickham Lizzie could have had a very clever response. Something along the lines of "In response to your question I have found that some people's company ages like milk. Pleasant at first but turning sour quite suddenly." Both an honest answer about Wickham and a dig at Caroline.
This was lovely! Not only well-thought out, but your reading of the text just really drives home how wonderful Austen's snarky sense of humor is. I'm going to need to reread that soon.
So I went through your channel while I was watching this video and let me tell you I just found such a gem 😍. Thanks to TH-cam for recommending whis video! I subscribed and I'm gonna watch your other videos.
How many times can I revisit this story and be thoroughly entertained? Infinite apparently! I love your thoughts on Caroline. You are my kind of weirdo for sure! ❤.
My youngest child, now 16, was (obviously😅) raised on the 95 miniseries. So no matter what he’s doing, if he’s sat down watching the movie with me, or walking by the TV: upon seeing Caroline getting the verbal smackdown from Darcy he inevitably says “ohhhh get wrecked!” “Get wrrrrrecked Caroline!” “Get. Wrecked.” and I just feel like the luckiest mom in the whole world. 🥰
Very good analysis. I never gave Caroline a lot of thought, just that she was a throw-away character. But on closer inspection, yes I can see that she has, time and again, brought the two closer together. Well thought out and a very strong position. I'll have to re-acquaint myself with the story.
Just rewatched Pride and Prejudice (again) and Caroline Bingley is one of these characters that you love to hate. She incorporates the upper class snob that everybody expects Darcy to be and she’s unable to change because she doesn’t even understand that her behaviour could be seen as unlikable. Also, complete fan theory but I like to imagine that Darcy sees his best friend having horrible sisters and still turning out “good” and as a result thinking increasingly lenient about Lizzie and her family.
Loved the book, loved the BBC series and loved the film! And still do - all three! And I adore your take on the characters plus the fact that you found time to search in all renditions of Pride and Prejudice for material to show us. Even to the point of syncing your spoken quotes with the video material, making Mr Darcy speak with your voice! ❤❤❤
I'm not here for Caroline, or to put forward another MVP. But I do like to argue that Lady Katherine actually really liked Lizzy quite a lot. And a good bit of her anger with her doesn't even stem from her potential marriage to Darcy. I think she sees a kindred spirit in Lizzy and perhaps even wishes she were her daughter. So the anger about the marriage is more that she doesn't WANT to be angry with her. She likes her quite a bit and wishes she didn't have to be so upset with her. The fact that she comes to Lizzy directly and not her parents, and addressed her directly says quite a lot, to me, as to how much Lady Katherine respects Lizzy.
@ErnestLordGoring And I don't think it was just Lady Katherine being bossy to insist on helping the girls get home. I think that's more evidence she really liked Lizzy. I can't imagine Mr. Collins didn't tell Lady Katherine that Lizzy turned him down. He might not have out of pride. But if he did, that says a lot about Lady Katherine's treatment of her.
Oh, definitely agree. And of course there's a similar situation as with Caroline, only more desperate. Lady Catherine's daughter Anne is sickly and it will be HARD for her to find suitors, let alone have any fun as a single lady like Emma does. Darcy is her best option. She's using the class issue as an excuse to object to a match that honestly isn't THAT BAD, not because she disliked Lizzie but she's worried about her daughter's future. Of course, Colonel Fitzwilliam is RIGHT THERE 🤭
I agree. She saw a kindred spirit, albeit with better manners. Also, like Darcy, she lies Lizzie because Lizzie doesn't throw herself at ehr for her approval, which she must be sick of. She love hates her because she is so rude to her at Rosings and can't understand why Lizzie has no gratitude, and can't stand to be contradicted, but she sees potential. She can't do those things with her daughter so why not offer them to a girl who isn't asking for them. Just when Lizzie gets in the way of her family plans that things go awry.
I really enjoyed your video. I’ve always enjoyed Caroline as a character, and I had noticed some of the ways she was unintentionally moving the relationship between Lizzy and Darcy forward, but you put it all together. In a really insightful way. Thank you!
This is why I like the 2005 adaptation so much. Don't get me wrong, I love the BBC series and have watched it multiple times, but the 2005 film just catches the ✨flavour✨ of Austen's writing so well, in my opinion. It's obviously not an outright comedy but it's so funny. I do enjoy the dynamics of Louisa and Mr. Hurst in the book but for a movie, making it all about Caroline was a good decision in my eyes. And the little moments like Lizzie slamming the book shut, or Bingley and Darcy talking about the proposal to Jane, or even the bit at the ball with Mr. Collins trying to get Darcy's attention all make me laugh in the same way the book does. It may not be the most faithful adaptation, but it's clear it was made with much love and the highest level of respect for Austen.
@@cmm5542 I think people who are attached to the BBC version dislike the changes made (which.. fair, they definitely took liberties in the ways this video goes over) but it's a great film and I'll stand by that.
@@Sims2PackWell, they also took liberties (love that phrase BTW 😁) with the 1940 version purists also complain about but I still love, so I would probably feel the same about 2005!
But the 2005 is just so beautiful, and in places the acting is more subtle with a slightly raised eyebrow rather than a grimace being all that’s required.
@@davidwatkins8016 I feel that might be a difference of acting/directing philosophies and it makes sense why so many people adore either one if they find themselves drawn more to one artform than the other. The more expressive actions and facial expressions seem a lot more stageplay-inspired, whereas the more subtle ones are those you can only get away with in a film where you're that close to the actors to be able to see it. I've never seen the 1995 version, but I'd be curious to, as a huge fan of the 2005 film version and as a big fan of stageplays! I figure I can't lose by adding more P&P to my life! 😄
It has been a very very long time since I have read any Austen. This video has revealed to me how great of mistake that is. It is abundantly clear to me that, while I did enjoy her novels in my teens, I missed a great deal of humor and subtext that I must correct in the very near future.
Oh, I have been so looking forward to this video!!! I'm half-way through and just wanted to tell you it is making me very happy and I am loving your exploration of Caroline's character and the depth you are doing it in! Should you fancy doing any more videos on P&P (or, for that matter, any other Austen novel) I would ardently admire and love it! 😊
My hot take is how much I sympathize with Mrs Bennet, and how I see the faults in Mr Bennet. It all started when I read Fay Wheldon’s “Letters To Alice”. Not sure if it’s true or a framing device, but Fay Wheldon (an accomplished novelist in her own right) is writing to her niece about Austen. One section describes Mrs Bennet, and points out that, frustrating as she can be, she does have a somewhat worthy goal. Her daughters are at reasonable financial risk, and she’s the only one trying to do anything about it, while her Husband does little but be mean to her about it. And so I’ve really come to appreciate the older BBC adaptation from 1980, which Wheldon wrote. Notably, Mrs Bennet isn’t shrill. She still says things that frequently make you cringe, but she’s much calmer in affect. It’s not that the joke isn’t still on her, it often is, but it’s less unkind, and the acting and direction don’t gild the lily, don’t dial it up to 11-her dialogue delivered reasonably is sufficient. Likewise, Mr Bennet’s meanness comes through in the 1980 series. An equal mix of caprice and quick parts, we’re told, and that comes through. When you look carefully at the things he says about his wife and daughters, they aren’t nice. In so many adaptations, we laugh with him, like a sarcastic sitcom character, whose cutting remarks we’re supposed to enjoy. It’s hard not to love Benjamin Whitrow and Donald Sutherland. Yet as Darcy says, there’s a want of propriety in Lizzy’s father at times as well, and Elizabeth notes that it’s not right for him to make his wife an object of ridicule, particularly before their children. I’ll watch and love the 1995 and 2005 versions, and I laugh at Mrs Bennet, with Mr Bennet, but I think it’s right to be a little uncomfortable with both of those. However much Mrs Bennet says these tactless things, she’s well-meaning and trying to do right by her daughters. And as witty as Mr Bennet can be, his wit is usually at someone else’s expense. I think it’s good to hold conflicting opinions on the both of Lizzy’s parents.
Alex Kingston did a very good job as Mrs Bennet in “Lost in Austen”, explaining her motivation well & with feeling. I liked her much better. Oh course, Alex does everything well….
Mr Bennet should have been saving all along for his daughters’ dowries. Why didn’t he just put the £4,000 from his Mrs Bennet’s dowry, plus the additional £1,000 he agreed to add to it, aside to collect interest while they lived off the income from his estate? His daughters could have had better financial futures then, especially considering that the estate is entailed with no male heir. His lack of financial responsibility drives me batty.
I don't like Mrs Bennet, she is a silly spendthrift, but I do feel a bit sorry for her because she was really out of her element. You are right that she is the only one trying to do anything about the girls' futures, but because she married up and thus wasn't raised in that society she doesn't really know how to behave, how to make connections, and what needed to happen to help her daughters make good marriage matches. Raising the girls to be "accomplished" and attractive for marriage was the wife's job, and she wasn't equipped to do it, and Mr Bennet didn't step up to fill that gap.
@@LishB yeah, I don’t have any issue with disliking her. A lot of the things Mrs. Bennet says and does are pretty bad. But they’d be just as bad if she’s personally charming. I’m mostly not a fan of how often she’s portrayed to be extra shrill and annoying, and when the adaptation wants you to like Mr. Bennet and dislike her.
@@brennerc180 , exactly. £2,000 a year was quite a good income. If he had realised, even 5 years ago when Lydia was about 10 & there was still no son, that he was probably stuck with just the 5 girls, he could have put away £100 a year each as well. He can probably expect to live another 20 years, & by then they’d have a substantial amount (although they’d hope to be married well before then). £5,000 or £10,000 would provide £200-£400 a year. Not a huge income, but enough that they wouldn’t be forced into (gasp!) WORKING for a living. They’d be much better off than Mrs & Miss Bates in Emma.
I love your Caroline! Currently in the middle of the book, I received it as a birthday gift, it's phenomenal! And getting to read lines from your shorts has been such a pleasant experience!
I always think of Charlotte as the real hero of the novel as she was the one who insured that the Bennet's beloved home wouldn't pass out of the family, so to speak, when none of them could seemingly be bothered to do anything about it.
Charlotte isn’t related to the Bennets, though. She’s Lizzy’s best friend. The estate is still entailed on Mr Collins and the Bennet girls will still have to move out when Mr Bennet dies.
@@JillBearup Well, I don't know, if Fanny Dashwood could influence her husband John to leave his half sisters with even less of an inheritance than they were owed, perhaps Charlotte could influence Collins to make sure the remaining Bennets were well taken care of.
@@kateorgera5907I always figured Charlotte would have managed to constantly have any unmarried Bennet sisters staying at Longbourne to 'help' her, for extended visits Mr Collins could do little to prevent if he wanted to, and I don't really think he would. He didn't seem to particularly want his cousins destitute, though of course his concern would hardly extend to DOING something about it! 😆
Excellent commentary! You bring out the emotional subtleties of Jane Austen's writing, as well as her delightful ironies. Thank you! You've inspired me to re-read it. I believe it's filed in the the A section of one of my fiction shelves. After listening to the whole video, I'd make the argument that Caroline is the MaGruffin person that drives the plot. Very cleverly done.
My wife and I usually wind up pausing the mini-series just to do our usual dialogue about Caroline helping Lizzie every time she opens her mouth, especially in the "take a turn about the room" scene.
Caroline’s attempts at making Lizzie look bad have the opposite effect because she makes Darcy think about Lizzie. If she had not mentioned her at all he may have forgotten her, developing an affection for her more slowly and maybe even too late, but Caroline constantly being background noise like “hey don’t you like that really pretty Bennet sister?” just makes him repeatedly affirming to her and himself “you’re right i do really like her”. It’s wonderful, really.
What an excellent analysis/rant , I would never have thought of it this way. Seriously underestimated that character, but then again, I often think the various undertones in conversation can be difficult to understand, so it's really cool when someone points things out this clearly. Really looking forward to reading your book. ❤ ❤❤
I loved that idea of Caroline helping! So funny and true. Also I'm looking forward to the auto book. No pressure though. It will be worth the wait. All the best! ❤
After many years of gentle prodding, my dad finally talked me into reading Patrick O’Brien’s Aubrey-Maturin novels, a 20.5 volume naval epic (this is relevant to P&P, I promise) following the adventures of a British ship captain and his close friend, the ship’s doctor. You may be familiar with the 2003 film Master & Commander starring Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany; these are the books that was based on. Anyway, I read the first book, Master & Commander, and enjoyed it; thick with sailor terms, but action-packed, historically accurate, and with a sly sarcastic humor bringing the whole thing to life. It was a rick-rolling adventure on the high seas with daring escapades and blood and guts and all that good stuff. Then I started Book 2, Post Captain, and for about half the book I felt like I had switched to a different series. Instead of seafaring adventures, we became immersed in a countryside courtship, complete with a family of all sisters, a widowed mother VERY concerned with proper marriage and prospects, and courtly balls. “Am I reading Pride & Prejudice all of a sudden?” I asked myself. Actually, I asked the internet; and upon doing this research I learned that Jane Austen was actually O’Brien’s favorite author, and he dedicated an entire shelf in his library to her, then wrote the second volume in his series in her honor. Yeah, Austen was that good of a writer; so much so that a crusty, bloody sailing story got put on hold to reenact the dramas of Netherfield.
Yay, we finally get the Caroline video! I'm about to start rereading P&P today for a class, so this is excellent timing! Now I'm even more excited than I was.
I cannot BELIEVE I did not place the Caroline Bingley/Lindley similarly upon first read. I knew it looked familiar, but just assumed it was one of those deja vu things. P&P is my favorite book, and I love seeing your content on it - I'm pretty sure it's how I first discovered you forever ago!
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
Caroline Bingley: Secretly the Most Valuable Player of Pride and Prejudice. I know, I know, but hear me out.
This video is sponsored by ME, and MY BOOK: books2read.com/juststabmenow (Or at your local bookshop, though they may have to order it in specially)
Watch the Just Stab Me Now videos: th-cam.com/video/eEE_pqix1dQ/w-d-xo.html
Come see me in Canterbury: www.waterstones.com/events/talk-by-fantasy-romance-author-jill-bearup/canterbury-rose-lane
Read Pride and Prejudice for free: www.gutenberg.org/files/1342/1342-h/1342-h.htm
One version of the audiobook of Pride and Prejudice: th-cam.com/video/eVHu5-n69qQ/w-d-xo.html
Merch: jill-bearup.myspreadshop.com
I can't hear you say the name Caroline without thinking of your book.
In the middle of JSMN now! (Just realized that this looks better in print than saying it out loud😅!) Wish I could’ve seen you in Canterbury (one of my destinations), but had to put off the trip until the Spring. Cheers from the US😊
🤓 Lost in Austen is a good one to add to this.
Every plot needs a good catalyst! You make excellent points. The Gardner's are instrumental in helping Darcy showcase his changes - all the more effective since he's just being decent and not pretending - and Lady Catherine is sort of the Caroline for Lizzie - her pushing forces Lizzie to front up in 'public' and totally sets her resolve about her feelings for the main man.
But since her opinion of him really changes when he's honest with her - in that marvelous letter - I would agree that Caroline is the real lynchpin of the plot and that does indeed make her the MVP.
😊
I think I have a very similar copy of the book that you are using to read from in the video
My God, that Austen woman could turn a phrase. I can't think of any other writer so masterful at integrating her own sense of sarcasm into third-person prose.
That is one reason she is still read two hundred years after she wrote and published her books. Robert Heinlein had a clever comment about her: "She could create more tension in a drawing room with people seated than most novelists can with action." (Approximately, according to my uncertain memory.)
@@AndyZach It's true. I think a lot of writers put too much stock in the notion that the higher the stakes, the greater the drama, and so they always reach for the top shelf, where everything is a matter of life and death. But that limits the scope of storytelling to a relatively small number of subjects.
And yet, Austen's stakes were just as intense, and much more relatable. If one of her heroines played it wrong in the drawing room, she could end up destitute. Elizabeth That's pretty serious stakes, even if swords aren't involved. So once you establish that this is what's at stake, parlor repartee takes on enormous of gravity.
Not even remotely the same genre, but Terry Pratchett was very capable of doing this. Integrating wit with narrative and deeply into his characters.
The number of times I have been reading an Austen book and about choked on food or drink with her ability to throw back-handed insults in the sweetest of proper society tones. LOL
@@maleldil1 Good point. I mean, Pratchett is just funny, and an absolute master of wordplay. He can be sarcastic, but his books aren't the tour-de-force of savage sarcasm that Austen's are. I kinda think Austen's sarcasm benefits from being the sole source of humor in her writing (except perhaps for the straightforward descriptions of Lydia's air-headedness, which are just funny.) While Pratchett ranges effortlessly from descriptive wordplay ("his face appeared to have been badly savaged by a mustache") to dumb puns ("let's go sleigh them") to rich, hilarious metaphor ("Ankh-Morpork is as full of life as an old cheese on a hot day, as loud as a curse in a cathedral, as bright as an oil slick, as colourful as a bruise, and as full of activity, industry, bustle and sheer exuberant busyness as a dead dog on a termite mound.”)
So while his sarcasm could be said to match Austen's, I feel it's overshadowed by other virtues, and doesn't really get to shine on its own the way Austen's does.
"Caroline-shaped background noise". Please tell me you gave yourself a high five when you wrote that.
Definitely, although I think Rosamund came out for ✨ just a moment ✨
Stopped the video at that point and was going to comment similarly.
Loved that. 😂
@@kathykuecker Same for me!!
That was my metal band name in Uni… ;)
PSA: Jennifer Ehle (actress of Lizzie in the mini-series) released a reading of P&P that's free on TH-cam
That’s amazing! Thanks so much, I just looked it up. Gonna start listening in tonight 😊
On Spotify there‘s one version read by Karen Savage. She does the voices nearly perfect, like the 1995 version.
She did the reading during the Covid lockdown. It is quite charming, in her car, often with dogs and kids around.
@@lydiabecker5725My husband and I love this reading.
Gasp! Thank you for the info
Caroline did a lot of the set up, but Lady Catherine definitely ran the ball into the end zone
It was a worthy team effort
Lady Catherine proved that Darcy himself had embarrassing relations.
@@kimanderson9380YES!
@@kimanderson9380 And that wealth and status did not make one better or worse!
@@kimanderson9380 true. Her behaviour is vulgar. Even at Rosings Darcy is embarrassed by her attitude towards Elizabeth's piano playing
The value of the jealous rival in a romance cannot be oversold! But it is important that you know I attempted to watch the video at lunch at which point 4 out of 5 of my children crowded around me (ages 7, 5, and twin 4s) and watched the VAST majority of it ATTENTIVELY. My five year old son has declared that he "wants to watch this movie." You kept them riveted.
You have clearly raised some special kinds of kids. I don't have any myself, but yours sound rad.
High praise!!
That's motherhood done right!
Aww, that is SO CUTE! I love it!
Future Austen fans in the making! We welcome them to the club!
Jane Austen really wrote a novel where the character called "Jane" is the prettiest and nicest character. I kinda love the confidence/sass behind that~
She published then anonymously, right?
I always thought that was amazing. Jane Fairfax in Emma is one of the best characters too.
Nice to know of someone else who obviously LIKED her own name! 😁 So I can feel comfortable using my name in stories I write too! 😊
Jane was also the doormat, bowing to expectations, who didn't achieve her happy ending so much as had it arranged for her by others while Lizzie worked towards her goals. Just saying, Jane Austen didn't make her namesake a Mary Sue nor the central character which is far better writing than most authors manage with their namesakes.
I think you will find that Jane is more modeled after her sister than herself.
@@jonathanparks207 Very true, I think.
I kid you not, the biggest lesson I've ever got from a piece of writing is when Caroline is pushing Darcy about Elizabeth and he only has lovely things to say - the:
"He then went away, and Miss Bingley was left to all the satisfaction of having forced him to say
what gave no one any pain but herself."
and I remember this quote every single time when I'm about to be unnecessarily petty or sarcastic or mean about anything, especially when I have the tendency to pretend that I don't care about something even though I really do - it got me through puberty I'd say
Yes. Literature endures because of such bits of wisdom about human nature. Some of them stick with us and guide us through our lives. Congrats at reading Austen at such a young age.
This is what sets Austen apart for me. Her ability to recognize human traits that we all understand but are subliminal to us, and put them into words in a way that has never been done, such that our reaction is "YES!!!! I recognize that!!!"
beautifully put. thank you!
Untangling several yards of craft wire and watching this video is a surprisingly relaxing way to spend a sundae morning.😊
IMHO Lady Catherine just put fire to a haystack meticulously created by Caroline Bingley.
And said haystack being previously OILED by the Gardiners! 😊
Is she the one who told Lady Catherine that Lizzie and Mr. Darcy were engaged?
@@jkalb1744 No, I'm pretty sure Miss Bingley and Lady Catherine never met... I think it was a rumor that Mr Collins heard and then "so loyally" relayed to his "ever gracious benefactor". Maybe he just heard Charlotte speculate one morning at breakfast (she has a very insightful mind, after all).
This is one of the key points on which the Garson-Olivier version changed the tenor of the story into a light comedy: that she did it on purpose to find out exactly what Elizabeth felt.
Yes, I remember that & resented it: I didn’t want to like Lady Catherine!
An interesting fact, the actress who played Miss Bingley in the 1995 version, Anna Chancellor, is Jane Austin's 8 times great niece.
Now, that is interesting! By which of her brothers?
@@katyvdb5993 Edward Austen Knight. Apparently I was mistaken about being 8 times, it's only 6 times great niece. Edit: I'm reading conflicting accounts as to how far removed. Some say 6, some say 8.
@@Kahtini Thank you.
She's also the overbearing mother un My Lady Jane, a series I'd love to see Jill discuss at some point
@@kateorgera5907Yes, I need to hear Jill's assessment before I can decide whether I should watch it! 😆
I played Caroline Bingley in a theatrical adaptation many years ago, and it’s left me with a big soft spot for her. Even at the time I thought she was for sure the second-best character to play (barring Lizzie, of course), because playing the character who says what everyone is thinking (or so she believes) is enormously fun.
She’s in a bit of a tight spot, if we’re being honest, and I can’t say I blame her for wanting Darcy. What she didn’t understand going in is He’s Just Not That Into You, and nothing she could say or do was going to change it. But as you say, she was eminently capable of raising Lizzie’s esteem in Darcy’s eyes, both by contrast and by constantly taking a position that Darcy felt a need to contradict.
The Gardiners were pivotal both in bringing Lizzie to Derbyshire at an opportune time, and in demonstrating that not ALL of Lizzie’s relationship were terrible and embarrassing. But neither of those things would have had any consequence without Caroline unintentionally pushing Darcy toward Lizzie, both passively and actively.
In the novel Jane Austen spelled Eliabeth's nickname Lizzy. Did you read the novel? You should know that if you did. The "ie" spelling is much more modern. Rember this novel was published in 1813, and Austen had actually written it 15 to 20 years before.
@@peachygal4153 it has been 30 years since I read the novel, and my memory is not good enough to remember a detail like that, especially when SO many other people spell it Lizzie. Also, I don’t particularly care how it’s spelled.
Caroline warning Elizabeth was always one of my favorite parts. They're rivals (at least in Caroline's mind) but she's still a girl's girl enough to speak up. Of course Elizabeth doesn't trust her but it was a solid attempt. Respect.
Or, to put it another way, Lizzie is her rival, but she doesn't hate her enough to let her get involved with a true villain without someone warning her of his true character.
Caroline could have gotten rid of her rival by letting Elizabeth continue on with Wickham. To me, it’s totally out of character for her to help her rival. Unless she thought Elizabeth would do the opposite of anything Caroline said! It’s a nice touch by Austen to give Caroline some humanity.
I always thought that it was quite the reverse... basically reverse psychology. If you assume that Caroline was generally intelligent (which she was), and also that she knew that Elizabeth didn't like or trust her or Darcy very much... suggesting to Elizabeth that, honest to God, I don't have any evidence but you should really trust me when I say that the guy you like wronged the guy you don't like rather than vice versa... I could easily see how that would push Elizabeth further to Wickham.
There's also the fact that, outside the story, Austen has already made Caroline's character quite clear, so it's also creating a 'red herring' for the reader to continue to believe that Wickham was wronged by Darcy, because of course Caroline can't be believed.
I can see all of these points in what Caroline was possibly trying to do "warning" Lizzy about Wickham. But what I think she was really trying to do was mock her... "Oh, Lizzy, you poor dear! You're favorite, Mr. Wickham, is really a rogue. What a backward, country simpleton you are..."
@@shiyajanzen2519 Yeah I always thought Caroline was just looking for more ways to embarrass her - not help her lol! Caroline hates Lizzie and she’s absolutely just being condescending in that moment. Caroline obvi wants Darcy for herself, but even more she’s trying to take Lizzie down a peg. Classic mean girl😂
Caroline is a perfect foil for Lizzie. In a way, she is a better marriage option than Lizzie (comes from trade but has money and her brother is besties with Darcy, who is a nephew of an earl, so yeah for connections?) and she is technically more accomplished that all the Bennett girls who never had a governess. BUT, despite all that, she is a template (probably unconsciously) for Darcy as to what he doesn't want in a wife. Between her and meek and sickly Anne, no wonder that Darcy preferred to to a personality 180 😅
Also, despite how Caroline is portrayed in the adaptations, it is worth remembering that she is most likely rather young. Lizzie names her both 'insolent girl' and 'young lady'. Coupled with the fact that she is not panicking about being an old maid and her being friends with 16 year old Georgiana seems fine with Darcy, the suggestion is that she is probably between 18 and 21. If she is 18 or 19, some of her more questionable choices make a lot of sense. She is trying her best with limited knowledge and female support.
As for other MVPs, I always find cute how much Darcy comes to like the Gardiners. For all his moaning about Lizzie's poor connections, in the end, he probably thought her Cheapside family the best dowry she could bring :) BTW, do you think he ever asked for that £50 a year?
Never thought about that before! But it makes a lot of sense since Bingley is also pretty young (22 if I remember correctly)
This would explain a lot actually, in all versions I have seen so far she’s usually portrayed as mid/end 20s.
2) absolutely agree on the Gardeners, they cement that money and class don’t always go together (in both directions). I believe they grew a lovely strong relationship after the wedding.
3) ha! I think he’d rather die of shame 😂
Despite any negative issues that the Bennetts have, they are landed gentry. ""I am a gentleman's daughter," Lizzy states. In this time period, it creates great value for Bingley to marry into.
@@shereeostrow8808 Yes; despite being rich Bingley married up when he married Jane. Caroline is looking for a similar social mobility. And when Charles became landed gentleman, her own standing improved. But let's not pretent that money never was 'the ace up someone's sleeve'. Caroline with her dowry and friends would make an atractive prospects to someone who may already have a status but maybe could do with some extra cash. Isn't it why struggling lords were marrying american 'princesses'? And Darcy was considering Bingley a possible match for Georgiana. Which actully says a lot of about his character; looking for a good man for his sister rather than some mean old lord and stuffy gentleman.
I absolutely agree with your age analysis, I always imagine her 18/19, best marriage age and no fear to become an old maid.
Proud to be one of Jill's kind of weirdos, who like Pride and Prejudice analyses just as much as movie sword fights!! :)
Same!
Yes!
So proud as well
As am I!😊
Hear hear!
Taking a turn about the room is often referenced in my family. Caroline is so quotable
"...and something in her AIR..." as she prances a majestic turn (internal eye-roll)
@@Just_Sara SO refreshing!
@@riverAmazonNZ At least Mr. Darcy was better able to admire their figures from where he was sitting.
@@Just_SaraMy FAVOURITE line of his.
Not quite Henry Tilney level, but it's up there! 😁
“Six inches deep in mud” frequents our group chat. It helps that we have five girls in the family so Bennet language gets tossed around too.
Honestly I feel the fact that one *can* have a hot take on such an old work speaks more to the longevity of the work than the outdatedness of the hot-take-haver.
Caroline Bingley is the only reason I take a turn about the room which is, in her very correct words, is so refreshing.
Wonderful analysis. I always got the feeling that Mr. Bingley fell for Jane so hard not just because she was beautiful, but because she was kind and without guile, much like himself, which was a direct contrast to the type of woman either sister was.
Also: Love your book!
Excellent insight.
I love the Bingley-Jane match bc it’s so the opposite of Darcy-Elizabeth. The juxtaposition of the two couples is always welcome in a rom/romcom. Except for Bingley being pressured to leave Jane, there’s no pride, no prejudice, no arrogance…
Only mentioned briefly here, but for some reason Charlotte is the character that stuck with me more than any other. While I absolutely LOVE Pride and Prejudice, much of its structure and themes feel extremely familiar (if only because it inspired so much of modern romance.) That considered, it feels so interesting in a story about characters finding true love matches, Charlotte is someone who settles for a practical marriage. I love how this isn’t viewed as a good thing or a bad thing. She doesn’t get the happiness of a romance heroine, but she carves out a life she is comfortable in. I often find myself thinking of her character arc.
I think it's portrayed as a bad thing. Austen is sympathetic to the fact that it is a necessity. But she's also a warning about marrying only for practicality, which Austen was against. Charlotte co exists with her husband and tries to avoid him at all costs. Sense and Sensibility has the same message with Willoughby and Miss Grey and Fanny and John, Mary and Charles in Persuasion- and hence the prospect of Anne and Mr Elliot, Mariah and Mr Rushworth and Mansfield Park. The opposite end is Lydia, who marries for lust. It makes the choices of Jane and Lizzie seem more practical.
Charlotte is a critical character, though most effectively behind the scenes. I think she most clearly saw what was happening between Darcy and Lizzie very early on, encouraging Lizzie to dance with Darcy when L so wanted to refuse. And she was the one in near proximity to Rosings who read what was emotionally transpiring between L & D. She offhandedly mentioned the connection to Collins, which led him to rush to Meryton to warn the Bennets that such a rumor must be quash immediately. And nobody knew, least of all Lizzie, where the rumor had come from.
@@MsJubjubbird I don't quite agree. I think Austen's ideal for a marriage match were in the mouth of Mr. Bennet (conveniently, one of the few people that Elizabeth unequivocally listens to), but Charlotte made a very good decision, at least for herself. She 'settled', yes... but she was far older than Elizabeth, had even less to offer, and a larger family for anything to be given to.
I think the most important part of Charlotte's choice was that it was her choice, and she made it in full knowledge. (This would be unlike Mr. and Mrs. Bennet's marriage, where I'd say that Mr. Bennet did not make the decision to marry in full knowledge.) She knew what she was getting into, and still chose it. I can only respect someone who makes that kind of decision.
@@NemisCassander as I said, Austen is sympathetic to her circumstances, but she doesn't promote marriage for convenience. Charlotte feels she has no choice, being neither wealthy not beautiful and past her prime, but Austen makes a point that it is not a happy marriage and Charlotte has regrets. She was never an advocate for marriage of convenience or of impulse. Willoughby feels he has no choice but to marry Miss Grey and he is also unhappy. Mary Elliot marries Charles and they are both unhappy. on a wider scale,.she's commenting on the lack of choice there is for women at the time, but doesn't support marriages for practicality.
Wickham: "He's about 27" both a subtle yet devastating burn.
In our contemporary view it is a burn. It is not easy to see it in the context of that time. Life expectancy was shorter. Adulthood commenced at an earlier age. Death in childbirth was far more common. Women married young. Widowers often remarried to women of child-bearing age. Children were a primary goal for marriage. Farmers needed field hands. The wealthy needed heirs. Darcy was wealthy because he managed an estate full of tenant farmers.
@valkyriesardo278
It's a burn from Austen, as well.
Everything Darcy and Lizzy say about it directly states how gross it is that a man his age would run away with a girl of "but 15 years of age".
The book is set in the 1700s, not paleolithic times. It had been generally considered inappropriate at best and downright villainous at worse to marry anyone younger than around 18-20 for a couple of centuries by that point--Shakespeare makes a big deal of it in Romeo and Juliet, when Paris (in his twenties) wants to marry Juliet, who is 14. He's a prince and her dad initially resists, and gives the reason because his own wife married him young, and childbirth damaged her so she only had their 1 daughter. He essentially says (but Shakespearean-ly) "girls married and bedded too young are too likely to die or be gravely injured in childbirth, nobody wants that".
Jane Austen grew up very aware of Shakespeare and the cultural norms of her day. Look up contemporary writers of the time---they didn't use the word "paedophile" but even in Henry VIII's time (200 years earlier) it was only considered okay to marry 15-year-olds to people of similar age. Not to much older people.
And. All of this probably stemmed from the last famous young marriage of a girl to a grown man--Henry VIII's grandmother was married at 13 and gave birth at 14, and it nearly killed her. She never had any other children, no pregnancies that we know of, and she never forgave her family for "sending a girl to do a woman's job". They knew at the time (the 1400s) that it was risky and frowned upon, but she was the daughter they had and they wanted power.
Perverts existing throughout history has never meant that most people weren't disgusted by adults who are attracted to young teens. It's always been gross.
@@amandasheard4000Actually Juliet's age was not Shakespeare's issue. But the fact her parents were so neglectful they didn't even KNOW her age without asking the nurse first, and wanting to marry off their only child without even seeming to feel they would MISS her. Not to mention their stupid bloody feud which the young people had more sense about than their elders, which was quite a subversive message for the day. NOT teens getting married. That would not have even shocked the Victorians.
18 was most certainly not the lower range in the 19th century. 12 was still legal. And 'a lad of 21 generally looks for a wife of 17.'
Marrying CHILDREN has always been seen as gross. Marrying FULLY BIOLOGICALLY DEVELOPED teenagers - not until the 21st century. Teenagers weren't even a thing until the 20th century, and growing up in the 90s no one called our ancestors 'disgusting' for marrying in their teens, just because we no longer have any reason to do so.
@@cmm5542the difference between 21 and 17 is almost negligible but difference between 16 and 27 is drastic
Nice to have you back on our screens Jill... You make everybody's day better.
No no no, not a 35 minute video from Jill about P&P! I was going to be productive, but _nooo_
I adore P&P, and I'm old enough to have enjoyed it in all it forms. Caroline Bingley is a favorite of mine. She makes sure that Bingley knows what he doesn't wants in a wife, Caroline makes Lizzie look even better to Darcy. Caroline Bingley is in a way the support our girls need.
One of the things that make Darcy so attractive is the way he sees through and despises Caroline's "mean girl" act. Every single one of us who was bullied by a Caroline at school loves him :)
He is a gentleman after all😌
Not only did I persist to the end, the talking down to that Lizzie gives Lady Catherine?
Perfection.
I will forever love the casting of the BBC series. The actors, the looks, the expressions, the moments.
Someone knew the characters and had faces for them.
Collins especially. The casting there was perfect too.
This was a great video!
I have the Shapard annotated Pride & Prejudice, and in the notes to the scene where Lizzy declines to walk with Caroline, Mrs Hurst, and Darcy he points out that Lizzy's mention of the picturesque is a subtle reference to William Gilpin (an author Jane Austen admired). Gilpin often mentioned cattle when discussing his ideas of the picturesque, and a grouping of three was ideal.
So basically, Lizzy is implying that the three are cattle. Shapard further notes that Darcy, as a reader, might have caught Lizzy's allusion to Gilpin, but that it's quite doubtful that Caroline or Mrs Hurst would have. I love learning about things like this, as it just makes me admire Austen's writing even more. The subtle sass!
“Stares of repressed British longing…”
😆 Yes. That’s EXACTLY what I shall call it henceforth. 😍😍
That description made me laugh. So perfect 😂
Cool. Return to (kind of) where I first found the channel. Hearing, "the plot goeth thusly" for the first time in a while brought forth a fond smile.
Thanks for acknowledging the Gardiners. While politely disagreeing about the relative merits of the Gardiners vs. Caroline Bingley, this member of the Aunt Gardiner fan club salutes you and Ms. Bingley for your excellence.
Thanks for the point about sassing and playing piano! People assume playing the piano and singing/chatting is as easy and when you play a guitar. I play both and it is NOT the case! Those jazz pianists in media who are wisecracking while they play are WICKED impressive.
When I was 11, I had to read for school, in succession, Jane Eyre (which I didn’t care for), David Copperfield (which was boring), and Robinson Crusoe (which I was disappointed to learn is 70% moping, 25% social commentary, and only 5% adventure story). It was a multi-month slog. When I learned the next book on the reading list was Pride and Prejudice, I groaned. Then I read the whole thing in an afternoon.
To sum up: go read the book. It’s a delight.
“Caroline-shaped background noise.”
Absolutely hilarious
I feel like I should give a shout out to the time that the Lizzie Bennet Diaries cast played the game “Marrying Mr. Darcy.” The actresses for the sisters played as their characters, but Darcy’s actor played as Caroline and proceeded to absolutely dominate and get everything that Caroline would have wanted 😂
Fun fact: i had never watched or read a rendition of P&P, until the Lizzie Bennet diaries - and i absolutely loved it!
This video made me want to watch Lizzie Bennett Diaries again. For the 4th (or 5th?) Time
Never seen it? Is it worth the time?
(I'm quite fond of "Lost in Austen." 😊)
@@msshellm8154 It’s my personal favorite as far as Austen adaptations go-the cast is fantastic and the writers did an excellent job of translating the book to a modern setting, with Lizzie as a grad student vlogging her life. It’s here on TH-cam, so you can watch it for free :)
@@msshellm8154 Yes. It's the best adaptation of P&P I've seen, very clever how they take the plot and translate it to modern situations.
The beauty of any truly good book is that all characters present help lead to the destination-in other words-I could never pick, but watching Caroline is hilarious.
I have to say, I only started to seriously dislike Caroline after she treated Jane so horribly during her London stay. That was really inexcusable. Before that...well. All is fair in love and war, as they say. And if you put yourself in her position and see Lizzy from her point of view... wouldn't most of us go to some length, to defend our claim on a love interest against a new rival? Of course she tried her best, to keep Darcy's attention. Assuming that she wasn't just after his money and station, but actually liked him, watching him fall in love with someone else, must have been very painful.
I can't quite remember...were her feelings for him ever actually laid open in the book? Because in the series, she actually really looked hurt at times, when he rejected her.
Considering that Lizzie, who we all know is prejudiced and has no reason to care about Caroline, notes her attraction to Darcy, I think we're supposed to assume Caroline really did want to be with Darcy - if she'd just been after his money there were other prospects in London.
Caroline is trying to protect her brother from an imprudent marriage. She wants to promote the family’s elevation in society being made possible by their new money.
I'd like to think I would be less obvious than Caroline Bingley was.... That was her biggest mistake.
This was fantastic. I always loved how Caroline's antics completely backfired on her. I always felt just a little bit that her needling pushed Darcy towards Lizzy specifically because he was obstinately avoiding Caroline's advances and purposefully being contrary to her comments. I was a little sad for her that she didn't get anything in the way of her own happy ending, because she's not a TERRIBLE person. She's a mean girl with a crush, but she's civil at least.
She’s so confined by the social conventions, if she existed in current times she would be the equivalent of Gretchen Weiners
She actually is kind where she needs to be. She genuinely does try and warn Lizzie about Wickham, but doesn't know what happened. When Jane is sick she makes sure she is cared for. When Darcy and Lizzie bicker she tries to diffuse the situation. And she does accept the wedding ore readily than Lady Catherine.
I think she's just so insecure about her origins in the working class that it overrides her sense of decency. Marrying Darcy and Georgiana marrying her brother would firmly cement their position Making fun of less wealthy gentry also makes her feel elevated
@@MsJubjubbirdI fully agree with your assessment!
This is exactly the content for me. But the thing that made me laugh the most was video Jill saying there might be an audiobook update, then the cut to editing Jill: "Look, I'm not going to say the audiobook is cursed..."
The only thing worse than audio engineering is live broadcast recording; when it goes wrong, and you lose the beginning, you just leave the building, go to the docks, sign onto a dubious merchantman before the mast, and next thing you know you're being hanged in Port Royal.
I just want to say, your experience writing a book has prompted me to finally sit down and finish my own. I started it when I was twelve... I'm now 34. A lot of revision is needed lol, but the idea never left me. So thank you for inspiring me to take the plunge. Still have no idea how to publish it, but one crisis at a time eh...😉
Wishing you the very best of luck!
Amazon has channels for self-publishing that are quite easy to navigate, if you can bear to feed THAT swollen beast! 😂
I always thought that Caroline Bingley was interested in the idea of Mr Darcy, rather than the man himself. Fashionable people make fun of the country rubes, so they chat about fashionable things. But this notion of 'fashion' is a form of behavior rather than an actual personality. She's trying to attract the attention of her brother's friend without having a genuine connection with him. Point in case, Georgiana. She knows the girl, but she doesn't know how the child is shy, extraordinarily in awe of her brother, and still quite wounded by Wickham's treachery. I think the interaction at Pemberly, when Caroline snipes in front of Georgiana, is the end of Mr Darcy's patience with her efforts. When the two ladies are contrasted against each other--Caroline who knows the players but none of the particulars, versus Lizzie who can empathize with Georgiana's pain because she was also deceived--Caroline loses the character war. And I don't think she ever knew the competition was about 'content vs form.' She thought form was all that mattered.
I love this video. I'd be delighted to hear more scalding hot takes on Regency literature by you. The fun of a spiteful, conniving, snobbish, provincial, self-deluding character is that they make a plot GO! If everyone behaved sensibly, sweetly, and wisely, the book would be rather short and rather dull.
Always used to watch Pride and Prejudice wiþ my mom whenever she fell ill. I cannot wait to show her þis video and get her take on þis! 😁
It is a great “I’m feeling rotten” series to watch 😁
You're testing my brain with the constant use of the thorn.
@@Rognik Yo, same, and I'm loving it
The mini series is something of a new years day tradition in my house, It’s the perfect way to spend a sleepy morning (and afternoon) and ring in the new year
Especially because the last two should be eth, not thorn.
I love the revelation that Caroline in JSMN is inspired by/named after Ms Bingley! Very fun
This is actually very timely!! I'm having a movie night next Friday to introduce to a friend who had never watched P&P. I'm going to watch it with all new eyes. 😂
@@lael5327 Ooo, which version are you going to show them?
@Just_Sara in an ideal world, we would start with the British miniseries because...Colin Firth. Alas, due to time constraints and my concern that she will not appreciate Colin Firth, we're watching the Keira Knightley version. 😄
@@lael5327 Anyone who does not appreciate Colin Firth is not someone I could be friends with! 😂 What's not to appreciate?! He's charming, has a lovely voice, and is bloody good looking, even now! Perhaps it's because I've grown up watching him in things, because my mum loves him, but seriously, while I do like Matthew MacFadyn, and he is a very handsome man, Colin Firth just has.... Something about him, that never seems to diminish.
@@ecofriendlyadventures5154'That man is BRITISH!' is the best way I can think to express it!
@@cmm5542 he really is one of those men who is the epitome of "English Gentleman" and he really does genuinely come across as a nice guy ("not NiceGuytm" lolz)
As someone who first watched this channel because of your Lizzie Bennet Diaries video, this brings me joy! Also, I must add that Caroline's counterpart in LBD is even more of an MVP, since she 1) Is trying to get her brother back to med school (albeit failing), 2) Actually ingratiates herself to Lizzie and manipulates her into saying cruel things about Darcy to the internet, which eventually helps his character development, 3) Takes some of Catherine de Bourgh's role at the end in getting Lizzie to realize she likes Darcy, and 4) Actually managed to cross over to the companion series Emma Approved, getting to marry a rich jerk like she always wanted.
I love Caroline in LBD because she manages to be so hot and weirdly charming you don’t even care she’s evil. With no Wickham has ever managed for me.
Ironically, the best match for Caroline was probably Colonel Fitzwilliam. He has higher social status than Darcy (I believe; the son of an earl is better than the grandson of an earl, right?), is very agreeable... but has very little money, as he isn't to inherit the earldom. We know exactly how much money Caroline has, and we know she's a social climber. Her connections are, technically, worse than Elizabeth's (if her money was made in trade, that directly implies that her father isn't a gentleman, further shown when we find out that he never purchased an estate), so he would also have faced friction there, but the money would probably help.
Just finished "Just Stab Me Now"
LOVED IT. 🎉
You know? You have made an EXCELLENT point here! I still deeply dislike Caroline Bingley, but if her “it was kindly meant” comment was actually genuine, as you argue, then I might actually respect her in a way I didn’t before.
I audibly gasped when I saw the title! Needless to say, I have never clicked on a video so fast!
I am assuredly not a P&P fan, but I watched this all the way through because I love Jill's sense of humor and way of explaining things. And her sense of humor.
BTW, I DID love Just Stab Me Now.
I think Caroline Bingley is one of the funniest characters Austen’s ever written, and NOBODY UNDERSTANDS MY AMUSEMENT. So thank you for this.
To readers of the time, Caroline’s claim to “mend pens remarkably well” is both a rather bold claim (everyone hated that task and would rather sell used quills back to a stationer to be mended by a professional if they could. It was also seen as the lowliest job of lower-level,school masters, to mend their students’ pens, which is why steel pen adoption spread so quickly) as well as having a slight intimate tone, as Darcy insisted he preferred to mend his own, presumably to his own personal tastes and preferences. Like offering to make someone a sandwich implying you know just how they might like it.
I love all these tidbits!💙
A great and entertaining analysis! I follow Dr. Octavia Cox, who does wonderful and scholarly deep dives into literature from the period, but she hasn't done an Austen video for quite a while. My take on that scene where Caroline goes on about accomplished women, and Darcy responds that women must also improve their minds with extensive reading: I think he's giving Lizzy a pointed compliment and Caroline a pointed reprimand for poking fun at "boring" Lizzy. He approves of her entertaining herself quietly with a book. Caroline must have remembered that when she later took up the second volume of a book he was reading, but shows us all that when it comes to serious mind-improvement via reading, she has the attention span of a gnat. And oh, the proposal scenes! Mr. Collins: "Let me run through a totally unromantic list of my reasons why I would be happy to be married." Mr. Darcy: "I despise your entire family, but will you marry me?" Finally, an opinion shared by some but not all Austenites: Mr. Darcy's transformation isn't so unbelievable if you see that it's not a swollen pride that's driving his behavior in the early scenes, but rather social anxiety. In Georgiana, it's expressed as extreme shyness. In Darcy, it comes out as being grumpy and extremely uncomfortable in a crowd of people he doesn't know, and snapping at his best friend who tries to get him to loosen up a bit. He's most comfortable at home, spending a quiet evening with people that he knows well.
I love her channel! Her voice too
And, somewhat in Caroline’s defense, I have seen it argued that there are clues that Caroline is actually a little younger than Elizabeth rather than the same age or older (as she’s usually depicted). Her behavior does make more sense as the clumsy actions of an 18 year old who just left a girls’ school.
I like how the 2005 Keira Knightly movie shows Liz loves her mum despite her mum being a fool, author of her daughters woes
@@DavidBall67 I agree!! The hug between the two was so sweet!!
Lady Catherine really came in clutch at the end but Caroline has much more going on throughout the book/ game, in this metaphor
Yay a video! & I’d argue the MVP is Mrs Bennet’s Rainstorm…
So VERY well spoken YET AGAIN my friend! And speaking of rainstorm, I DO so hope that our own resident Hot Editor is NOT in the part of Italy that is in the midst of deluge and flooding.
@@classicsloverThank you! It is bright and sunny where I am enroute from Rome to Venice!
I am not, of course, trying to make either of you envious here. Not in the least 😁
@@cmm5542 Hmmm...methinks with those last two sentences, your nose may actually be growing. I mean, you ARE in Italy. Are you perchance travelling through Tuscany right now? Historical residence of Jiminy Cricket, et al.
@@classicsloverI'm outside Venice right now. No lie 😁😇
@cmm5542 Ha! You knew I was talking about the not trying to make us jealous part! And...was watching Come September with Rock Hudson and Gina Lolabrigita tonight. Set in Italy. Yes
I'm jealous.=)
Mr. Collins doesn’t get enough credit for his part either. Had he not married been obsessed with Lady Catherine de Bourgh and married Charlotte, Lizzie wouldn’t have had half as many encounters with Darcy and Darcy wouldn’t have proposed and written the letter. Not only that, but it’s because of his and Charlotte’s gossip with Lady Catherine de Bourgh that she pays her visit to Lizzie demanding that she promise to refuse Mr. Darcy.
I don't know if I agree on the MVP stuff. I always took Lady Catherine de Bourgh as the antagonist, and Caroline more as a Greek chorus exemplifying the views of a Regence society. When Elizabeth and Darcy danced, they were of a mind as you said, but they were both immature and needed to grow up before they would admit it. The thing I always liked about Austen's novels is there is always a moment when the heroine stands up and says to society, "no I won't." Those moments are why I read Austen. That and the dialogue. No one writes dialogue like Jane.
Whoo! Just finished reading Pride and Prejudice, so it's very fresh on the brain. Absolutely perfect timing, Jill! My favorite youtuber talking about my most recent read? What a great early-day treat!
This was a wonderful analysis of Pride and prejudice and a lovely re evaluation of Caroline Bingley (it's also a great follow up to your series on Pride and prejudice adaptations)
I have been a Caroline supporter since forever. I love her. She's everything I think many people would become in this environment, cause Caroline isn't settled socially. Her brother is still in trade, which hurts her prospects with gentlemen, yet she's too wealthy to settle for a lower gentry position - like Mr Bennet or Mr Gardiner. She doesn't fully belong in either world, so she's clinging to what she can. Does she go about things in the best way? No. Do I think she's who I would be in this situation? Yes.
And I learned a lot from her about how to handle people trying to take advantage of me. Would I be indiscriminately scornful? No, I hope not. Would I treat WICKHAMS the way she does? Oh yes 😁
Mr.Bingley is no longer personally in trade. His father made a (very large) packet, and apparently retired. So Charles never need work and his sisters have large dowries. But I agree that the sisters' prospects are somewhat dimmed by the association. (I've always wondered what Mr. Hurst's origins were. Younger son of a noble house? Someone else whose father was also in trade?)
Caroline's age is not specified so she may be Lizzy's age, or she may be younger which puts her behavior in a different perspective.
“States of repressed British longing” is the BEST way to describe Darcy’s poor attempts at flirting.
As someone eagerly awaiting the audiobook, I am happy to wait for as long as it takes!
Also, I totally love deep dives into books because as an ND person, I don't always derive the intended information from a book I read and often times I miss things entirely. Deep dives give me other perspectives that can clarify why stuff sometimes happens the way it does.
I still remember reading a book ages ago where something happened in the ending (a character cut their thumb after another character asked them something) where the meaning was implied, but I still (25 years later) don't understand what it meant. Deep dives can clarify a lot of this stuff for me and show me things from a perspective different from my own, which is veeeery helpful 💖
This was SO entertaining to watch! XD Also, I feel like a Pride & Prejudice narrated by you would be awesome!
Given Jill's current issues with audiobook recording, that might be salt in an open wound.
Very clever analysis! Of course a good romance needs antagonists! And one who is sprinkled throughout, like chili flakes, is especially useful to an author!
Change Captain Collins’ name? Outrageousness! It is already canonized by the Fantasy Heroine series.
I always felt that in the miniseries scene where Caroline brings up the militia and Wickham Lizzie could have had a very clever response. Something along the lines of "In response to your question I have found that some people's company ages like milk. Pleasant at first but turning sour quite suddenly." Both an honest answer about Wickham and a dig at Caroline.
This was lovely! Not only well-thought out, but your reading of the text just really drives home how wonderful Austen's snarky sense of humor is. I'm going to need to reread that soon.
Honestly, love this redemption arc for Caroline Bingley ❤
So I went through your channel while I was watching this video and let me tell you I just found such a gem 😍. Thanks to TH-cam for recommending whis video! I subscribed and I'm gonna watch your other videos.
Welcome 😁
How many times can I revisit this story and be thoroughly entertained? Infinite apparently! I love your thoughts on Caroline. You are my kind of weirdo for sure! ❤.
Time to re-read Just Stab Me Now and re-watch the series.
My youngest child, now 16, was (obviously😅) raised on the 95 miniseries. So no matter what he’s doing, if he’s sat down watching the movie with me, or walking by the TV: upon seeing Caroline getting the verbal smackdown from Darcy he inevitably says “ohhhh get wrecked!” “Get wrrrrrecked Caroline!” “Get. Wrecked.” and I just feel like the luckiest mom in the whole world. 🥰
In "The Importance of Being Earnest" there's a duel conducted with sugar tongs. I think you have just shown me the inspiration.
Very good analysis. I never gave Caroline a lot of thought, just that she was a throw-away character. But on closer inspection, yes I can see that she has, time and again, brought the two closer together. Well thought out and a very strong position. I'll have to re-acquaint myself with the story.
Just rewatched Pride and Prejudice (again) and Caroline Bingley is one of these characters that you love to hate. She incorporates the upper class snob that everybody expects Darcy to be and she’s unable to change because she doesn’t even understand that her behaviour could be seen as unlikable.
Also, complete fan theory but I like to imagine that Darcy sees his best friend having horrible sisters and still turning out “good” and as a result thinking increasingly lenient about Lizzie and her family.
Loved the book, loved the BBC series and loved the film! And still do - all three! And I adore your take on the characters plus the fact that you found time to search in all renditions of Pride and Prejudice for material to show us. Even to the point of syncing your spoken quotes with the video material, making Mr Darcy speak with your voice!
❤❤❤
I'm not here for Caroline, or to put forward another MVP. But I do like to argue that Lady Katherine actually really liked Lizzy quite a lot. And a good bit of her anger with her doesn't even stem from her potential marriage to Darcy. I think she sees a kindred spirit in Lizzy and perhaps even wishes she were her daughter. So the anger about the marriage is more that she doesn't WANT to be angry with her. She likes her quite a bit and wishes she didn't have to be so upset with her. The fact that she comes to Lizzy directly and not her parents, and addressed her directly says quite a lot, to me, as to how much Lady Katherine respects Lizzy.
@@BladeRedwind I can see that. She was invited to dine at Rosings many times and was offered the Barouche Box
@ErnestLordGoring And I don't think it was just Lady Katherine being bossy to insist on helping the girls get home. I think that's more evidence she really liked Lizzy. I can't imagine Mr. Collins didn't tell Lady Katherine that Lizzy turned him down. He might not have out of pride. But if he did, that says a lot about Lady Katherine's treatment of her.
You need to Watch the 1940 adaptation then. Lady Katherine would amuse you in it.
Oh, definitely agree. And of course there's a similar situation as with Caroline, only more desperate. Lady Catherine's daughter Anne is sickly and it will be HARD for her to find suitors, let alone have any fun as a single lady like Emma does. Darcy is her best option. She's using the class issue as an excuse to object to a match that honestly isn't THAT BAD, not because she disliked Lizzie but she's worried about her daughter's future.
Of course, Colonel Fitzwilliam is RIGHT THERE 🤭
I agree. She saw a kindred spirit, albeit with better manners. Also, like Darcy, she lies Lizzie because Lizzie doesn't throw herself at ehr for her approval, which she must be sick of. She love hates her because she is so rude to her at Rosings and can't understand why Lizzie has no gratitude, and can't stand to be contradicted, but she sees potential. She can't do those things with her daughter so why not offer them to a girl who isn't asking for them. Just when Lizzie gets in the way of her family plans that things go awry.
I really enjoyed your video. I’ve always enjoyed Caroline as a character, and I had noticed some of the ways she was unintentionally moving the relationship between Lizzy and Darcy forward, but you put it all together. In a really insightful way.
Thank you!
This is why I like the 2005 adaptation so much. Don't get me wrong, I love the BBC series and have watched it multiple times, but the 2005 film just catches the ✨flavour✨ of Austen's writing so well, in my opinion. It's obviously not an outright comedy but it's so funny. I do enjoy the dynamics of Louisa and Mr. Hurst in the book but for a movie, making it all about Caroline was a good decision in my eyes. And the little moments like Lizzie slamming the book shut, or Bingley and Darcy talking about the proposal to Jane, or even the bit at the ball with Mr. Collins trying to get Darcy's attention all make me laugh in the same way the book does. It may not be the most faithful adaptation, but it's clear it was made with much love and the highest level of respect for Austen.
Absolutely agree. I regularly watch both adaptations and they capture my heart for different reasons - but both are masterpieces in their own right 🥰🤗
I love the 2005! I was shocked to find out so many fans dislike it for the details it leaves out or gets wrong.
@@Sims2PackA friend whose opinion I trust has just told me the 2005 version does not deserve the hare. I WILL try it now 😊
@@cmm5542 I think people who are attached to the BBC version dislike the changes made (which.. fair, they definitely took liberties in the ways this video goes over) but it's a great film and I'll stand by that.
@@Sims2PackWell, they also took liberties (love that phrase BTW 😁) with the 1940 version purists also complain about but I still love, so I would probably feel the same about 2005!
Love this, Jill. This is such an interesting take. It makes me realize how much I love the scenes in which caroline meddles with the others.
The A&E version from 1995 is the superior version. I will not be taking questions.
Can’t argue if you’re right.
But the 2005 is just so beautiful, and in places the acting is more subtle with a slightly raised eyebrow rather than a grimace being all that’s required.
@@davidwatkins8016 I feel that might be a difference of acting/directing philosophies and it makes sense why so many people adore either one if they find themselves drawn more to one artform than the other. The more expressive actions and facial expressions seem a lot more stageplay-inspired, whereas the more subtle ones are those you can only get away with in a film where you're that close to the actors to be able to see it.
I've never seen the 1995 version, but I'd be curious to, as a huge fan of the 2005 film version and as a big fan of stageplays! I figure I can't lose by adding more P&P to my life! 😄
I like the acting in the 2005 version but the costuming and hair in the 1995 are so, so much better.
It has been a very very long time since I have read any Austen. This video has revealed to me how great of mistake that is. It is abundantly clear to me that, while I did enjoy her novels in my teens, I missed a great deal of humor and subtext that I must correct in the very near future.
Don’t miss the juvenilia either! They may not be as polished/subtle as her later work, but all her genius is there.
Caroline Bingley is just Emma in a different setting and from a different point of view, imo. I'm excited for this video!
We are fans of Colin Firth!
Oh, I have been so looking forward to this video!!! I'm half-way through and just wanted to tell you it is making me very happy and I am loving your exploration of Caroline's character and the depth you are doing it in! Should you fancy doing any more videos on P&P (or, for that matter, any other Austen novel) I would ardently admire and love it! 😊
I see what you did there.
My hot take is how much I sympathize with Mrs Bennet, and how I see the faults in Mr Bennet. It all started when I read Fay Wheldon’s “Letters To Alice”. Not sure if it’s true or a framing device, but Fay Wheldon (an accomplished novelist in her own right) is writing to her niece about Austen. One section describes Mrs Bennet, and points out that, frustrating as she can be, she does have a somewhat worthy goal. Her daughters are at reasonable financial risk, and she’s the only one trying to do anything about it, while her Husband does little but be mean to her about it.
And so I’ve really come to appreciate the older BBC adaptation from 1980, which Wheldon wrote. Notably, Mrs Bennet isn’t shrill. She still says things that frequently make you cringe, but she’s much calmer in affect. It’s not that the joke isn’t still on her, it often is, but it’s less unkind, and the acting and direction don’t gild the lily, don’t dial it up to 11-her dialogue delivered reasonably is sufficient. Likewise, Mr Bennet’s meanness comes through in the 1980 series. An equal mix of caprice and quick parts, we’re told, and that comes through. When you look carefully at the things he says about his wife and daughters, they aren’t nice. In so many adaptations, we laugh with him, like a sarcastic sitcom character, whose cutting remarks we’re supposed to enjoy. It’s hard not to love Benjamin Whitrow and Donald Sutherland.
Yet as Darcy says, there’s a want of propriety in Lizzy’s father at times as well, and Elizabeth notes that it’s not right for him to make his wife an object of ridicule, particularly before their children. I’ll watch and love the 1995 and 2005 versions, and I laugh at Mrs Bennet, with Mr Bennet, but I think it’s right to be a little uncomfortable with both of those. However much Mrs Bennet says these tactless things, she’s well-meaning and trying to do right by her daughters. And as witty as Mr Bennet can be, his wit is usually at someone else’s expense. I think it’s good to hold conflicting opinions on the both of Lizzy’s parents.
Alex Kingston did a very good job as Mrs Bennet in “Lost in Austen”, explaining her motivation well & with feeling. I liked her much better.
Oh course, Alex does everything well….
Mr Bennet should have been saving all along for his daughters’ dowries. Why didn’t he just put the £4,000 from his Mrs Bennet’s dowry, plus the additional £1,000 he agreed to add to it, aside to collect interest while they lived off the income from his estate? His daughters could have had better financial futures then, especially considering that the estate is entailed with no male heir. His lack of financial responsibility drives me batty.
I don't like Mrs Bennet, she is a silly spendthrift, but I do feel a bit sorry for her because she was really out of her element. You are right that she is the only one trying to do anything about the girls' futures, but because she married up and thus wasn't raised in that society she doesn't really know how to behave, how to make connections, and what needed to happen to help her daughters make good marriage matches. Raising the girls to be "accomplished" and attractive for marriage was the wife's job, and she wasn't equipped to do it, and Mr Bennet didn't step up to fill that gap.
@@LishB yeah, I don’t have any issue with disliking her. A lot of the things Mrs. Bennet says and does are pretty bad. But they’d be just as bad if she’s personally charming.
I’m mostly not a fan of how often she’s portrayed to be extra shrill and annoying, and when the adaptation wants you to like Mr. Bennet and dislike her.
@@brennerc180 , exactly. £2,000 a year was quite a good income. If he had realised, even 5 years ago when Lydia was about 10 & there was still no son, that he was probably stuck with just the 5 girls, he could have put away £100 a year each as well. He can probably expect to live another 20 years, & by then they’d have a substantial amount (although they’d hope to be married well before then). £5,000 or £10,000 would provide £200-£400 a year. Not a huge income, but enough that they wouldn’t be forced into (gasp!) WORKING for a living.
They’d be much better off than Mrs & Miss Bates in Emma.
I love your Caroline! Currently in the middle of the book, I received it as a birthday gift, it's phenomenal! And getting to read lines from your shorts has been such a pleasant experience!
I always think of Charlotte as the real hero of the novel as she was the one who insured that the Bennet's beloved home wouldn't pass out of the family, so to speak, when none of them could seemingly be bothered to do anything about it.
Charlotte isn’t related to the Bennets, though. She’s Lizzy’s best friend. The estate is still entailed on Mr Collins and the Bennet girls will still have to move out when Mr Bennet dies.
@@JillBearup Well, I don't know, if Fanny Dashwood could influence her husband John to leave his half sisters with even less of an inheritance than they were owed, perhaps Charlotte could influence Collins to make sure the remaining Bennets were well taken care of.
@@JillBearup I imagine Charlotte wouldn't allow that to happen if she has any influence on her husband at all.
@@kateorgera5907I always figured Charlotte would have managed to constantly have any unmarried Bennet sisters staying at Longbourne to 'help' her, for extended visits Mr Collins could do little to prevent if he wanted to, and I don't really think he would. He didn't seem to particularly want his cousins destitute, though of course his concern would hardly extend to DOING something about it! 😆
If she was the one who spilled the beans to Lady Catherine (very likely!), she helped the even more.
Excellent commentary! You bring out the emotional subtleties of Jane Austen's writing, as well as her delightful ironies. Thank you! You've inspired me to re-read it. I believe it's filed in the the A section of one of my fiction shelves.
After listening to the whole video, I'd make the argument that Caroline is the MaGruffin person that drives the plot. Very cleverly done.
I know nothing about P&P but I will contribute watch time in support of cheese. 🧀
I haven’t read any of Ms Austen’s books in a long time but discovering this gem of a video from you about P&P has rekindled my interest! Thank you!
My wife and I usually wind up pausing the mini-series just to do our usual dialogue about Caroline helping Lizzie every time she opens her mouth, especially in the "take a turn about the room" scene.
I did a paper in high school on the marriages in Pride and Prejudice (book version). This was a fascinating tale to listen to!
Caroline’s attempts at making Lizzie look bad have the opposite effect because she makes Darcy think about Lizzie. If she had not mentioned her at all he may have forgotten her, developing an affection for her more slowly and maybe even too late, but Caroline constantly being background noise like “hey don’t you like that really pretty Bennet sister?” just makes him repeatedly affirming to her and himself “you’re right i do really like her”.
It’s wonderful, really.
What an excellent analysis/rant , I would never have thought of it this way. Seriously underestimated that character, but then again, I often think the various undertones in conversation can be difficult to understand, so it's really cool when someone points things out this clearly. Really looking forward to reading your book. ❤ ❤❤
Me, too, I just borrowed it.
I loved that idea of Caroline helping! So funny and true. Also I'm looking forward to the auto book. No pressure though. It will be worth the wait. All the best! ❤
After many years of gentle prodding, my dad finally talked me into reading Patrick O’Brien’s Aubrey-Maturin novels, a 20.5 volume naval epic (this is relevant to P&P, I promise) following the adventures of a British ship captain and his close friend, the ship’s doctor. You may be familiar with the 2003 film Master & Commander starring Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany; these are the books that was based on.
Anyway, I read the first book, Master & Commander, and enjoyed it; thick with sailor terms, but action-packed, historically accurate, and with a sly sarcastic humor bringing the whole thing to life. It was a rick-rolling adventure on the high seas with daring escapades and blood and guts and all that good stuff. Then I started Book 2, Post Captain, and for about half the book I felt like I had switched to a different series. Instead of seafaring adventures, we became immersed in a countryside courtship, complete with a family of all sisters, a widowed mother VERY concerned with proper marriage and prospects, and courtly balls. “Am I reading Pride & Prejudice all of a sudden?” I asked myself. Actually, I asked the internet; and upon doing this research I learned that Jane Austen was actually O’Brien’s favorite author, and he dedicated an entire shelf in his library to her, then wrote the second volume in his series in her honor.
Yeah, Austen was that good of a writer; so much so that a crusty, bloody sailing story got put on hold to reenact the dramas of Netherfield.
I throughly enjoy and highly recomend the Patrick O Brien's novels glad you enjoyed them as well.
Yay, we finally get the Caroline video! I'm about to start rereading P&P today for a class, so this is excellent timing! Now I'm even more excited than I was.
I cannot BELIEVE I did not place the Caroline Bingley/Lindley similarly upon first read. I knew it looked familiar, but just assumed it was one of those deja vu things. P&P is my favorite book, and I love seeing your content on it - I'm pretty sure it's how I first discovered you forever ago!