I've been using trackballs for gaming since the late 90's. There is a substantial amount of time needed to acclimate. I prefer the larger ball style (kensington expert trackball) and dialing in the settings (moderate sensitivity and high ramp speed with a smallish non ramp area) means i can get (sniper pixel by pixel) fine control and throw and catch for 360 spin(with practice there is minimal vertical drift and what is there is compsated for as the target nears the cross hairs)
Same here, I keep mine very sensitive and never have to spin it, and have it so my thumb range matches my screen. I have all my fingers for extra buttons and I can set up anywhere, no need for a mouse pad and can place my arm where it is most comfortable. With a good game pad I never have to reach for anything. Once you know how to use a trackball you will never go back.
Trackball is soooo bad I only use it for the meme. After ten years my aim is still crap and the ergonomics are horrible but the reactions people have to a trackball gamer make it worth it.
When you play FPS on a "centre ball" trackball, you typically shoot with your thumb. Isolating your thumb movements to the other fingers is very difficult and usually means that you slip from the target when firing. That said, I think a centre ball is amazing for productivity. I use a Trackman Marble at work since 7 years and I like it a lot. But for gaming a thumb trackball is the best. I use the Logitech M570 trackball at home for gaming and the precision is just better in every way when doing complex movements like in FPS or MOBA games.
a heavier and larger ball eliminates this nearly entirely, FWIW. I had the same problem when using smaller ball trackballs (the Logitech one, the other two button Kensington makes when i was traveling), but i do not have this problem with the Expert Mouse.
I used to be a banking consultant and we all had those on our desk. It just looks better because you are not sliding around the desk with a customer sitting there and you can use you space for something else. I would always recommend those for your non-gaming needs. Also love the hosting. Very cool, very authentic, precise. Another true character. Thumbs up.
There is a substantial learning curve to those, I moved myself to trackballs, particularly from logitech (especially MX Ergo) due to carpal tunnel thing and I never looked back. I still couldn't get my trackball to work on FPS games, but I know it is achievable, I just don't play those games too much to care about those anyway. For other games it works really well for me and ergonomics is something that none of the mice could match for me. It is a niche product, but worth looking at for those who look for something else than just a typical mouse. Precision moves can be achieved easily after some getting used to. With this trackball after HOURS of usage my hand is not in pain whatsoever, no fatigue, that's what I love in those products. You need to have your hand relaxed and you position your hand differently than with mice.
Even with mice, a comfortable relaxed, almost resting position and not doing constant big movements or of that position seems key in dialing in ergonomics, from your chair, to monitor, to keyboard, not just mouse, trackball. Being able to dial (customize) everything in to your body is key to ergonomics. Although, I know what you mean. With keyboard mouse, resting on them is bad ergonomically, hovering over in the right position with arm aloft. With trackball, you rest on it, in the right position. (to anyone reading, not specifically OP) If you're working in office, have the ergo guy come in and help you dial in and remember and do the same for yourself at home. Your bodies will thank you. Even if you don't feel anything and you're young. A decade of good ergo will make a difference.
I think an important point to mention with products like this is more "Does it make gaming accesible to more people?" People with RSI, disabilities, even someone with a temporary disability like a broken arm or something of the sort and less "Should you ditch your mouse for this", mostly because it's impossible to compare the potential of using a trackball to the years of mouse use most of us have
Exactly! Well said. I think this guy absolutely missed the mark with this review. I'm kind of surprised that they let this slide and allowed him to kind of crap on it and anyone who would want to use it most of the video. They created this for a reason and there's other products that exist for a reason.
The only Logitech trackball, I could even was the Cordless optical trackball and that thing is $80 now and is so many eras behind I can confidently say this blows that out of the water without trying. The Logitech don't have the dpi to compete. Those that like thumb balls are better served by basic Logitech. If you prefer index, middle ring, Logitech generally loses to other balls in hand, including Kensington, but again there's that latency and dpi missing from the equation. I haven't paid attention if they added the features you'd want gaming though. Logitech could totally make a lightspeed trackball with the dpis, the thumb and finger style, but they don't bother, which is frustrating. The time someone makes a real breakthrough in this market, then Logitech will come in and make one and out market the one that people should really buy, though, cuz they are too lame to break ground, only steal it.
Logitech's of this style hasnt been updated in over 10 years so you have no DPI control, or even scrolling. Now their thumb style has gotten a bunch of development with lots of improvements in the MX Ergo.
Then you need to expand your imagination. When I was in the market for a trackball (I use Elecom now cause the game ball would've blown my budget) one MAJOR thing that became apparent was Sensor refresh rate and precision. Logitech hasn't used better sensors in any of their trackball in decades
i want one of these. and your reviewer has no idea what he is talking about. not just concerning trackballs. if he knew what he was talking about he would have some idea of the history, THIS IS A MARBLE MOUSE REFRESH. it is a classic.
Would like to point out that when optical mice didnt exist the trackball was far superior to a ball mouse, so yes you can get used to gaming with a trackball. They used to be the got to for RTS players. I cant count how many hours of C&C Red Alert I played with one!
Been daily driving the GameBall for 2 years now (Have a prototype from hardware testing, and a Limited Edition from the July 2021 backer release). I absolutely recommend it for other trackballers! Been gaming with a trackball since I switched to the Microsoft Trackball Explorer back in 2004. Also, fun fact: Mouse acceleration was invented primarily FOR trackballs (and ball mice). ABSOLUTELY recommend using mouse accel with the GameBall. Secondly; for proper usage, DON'T use the tip of your finger to control the ball, use the meaty part of your fingers (between middle and top knuckle).
@@bipbop3121 biggest issue would be the polling rate and the sensor CPI. I'm excited to see the new SANWA MSTE clone coming out, as it too apparently has a 3k CPI sensor with 1kHz polling.
I think its a nod to older logitec gaming gear. The red and black was pretty popular back then. Back when there wasnt bright colors and stuff on everything
The Microsoft Trackball Explorer from 2001 was just about the best trackball ever made. It is still somewhat coveted and extremely hard to find/expensive. If you guys do one of your "old tech" segments again, you should try to find one. I used to use that for pretty intense gaming from Minesweeper to UT2K4. Trackballs in gaming take a little bit to learn. wo fingers on the ball, split slightly apart, fingers curled a bit. You can learn to flick and dive with easily and really nail down accuracy. I wish so much that Microsoft would re-release the Trackball Explorer (not the trackball optical). I miss it :/ I would disagree with some of the other commenters saying that a thumb ball is better than a finger ball. two points of contact beats one any day for precision.
Ploopy makes the Ploopy Classic which is basically exactly what you're looking for. imagine MTE with modern switches, pixart sensor, but 3d printed housing and that's it. the entire thing is open sourced so if you want to make one in 50 years, it'll probably be doable.
I got Track Explorer for a couple of bucks while thrift shopping and thought that it would be nice to have a trackball for a more cluttered workbench and since it's made by Microsoft it should be pretty decent. I had no idea how revered it is -- change the bearings with some new ceramic ones and it's pretty much flawless. Microsoft should definitely do a re-release.
I've been using trackballs for a bit over 10 years and yes, they take a while to get used to even for regular productivity work but once it 'clicks' with you then you don't want to let go. It took me a long time to actually get good at games, specially FPS games, with it but it can be done. I am a fan of Logitech's trackballs, with the M570 being the one that I have used the most but the MX Ergo is the one that has worked the best for me for gaming, it is much more customizable and with the toggles to move between different dpi settings I felt like I had more control while gaming. But I'll be honest, a few years after using them and with my wrists healed up I returned to use regular mouse for gaming but only for gaming, I don't like them for regular computer use and even less for work, but for the couple of hours a week I manage to play shooter games I feel a regular mouse still is a better option, for everything else trackballs suit me best.
Same. I use it for games almost everything besides games that require aiming, and games that I use a Xbox controller, like race and platform. For WORK, that's where it really shines imo.
I've used a Logitech Trackman Marble similar to that for gaming for over 20 years. They still make it, although the old one had a PS2 port, and had better bearings for the trackball than the new one (steel vs. plastic). It is only half the price of this one.
I've been exclusively using trackballs (for gaming, work, and personal use) for over 7 years. I do a lot of CAD work, so maybe using it for fine movements there has helped me use it for gaming, but it just seems so natural to me now.
I think people completely miss the point of this video. The video is not to show every single possible use case scenario of a trackball. It is a short introduction for people who have never used one and who might be thinking about it. He is showing what a beginner might notice and deal with when they first get one. It is there to help us decide whether we want to switch and deal with all the hurdles and the learning curve. That is it. He literally said he thinks people should check it out but that he can not recommend it to absolutely everyone. How is that a bad take? How many people do you know that use this kinda thing? It is a very niche use case and that is fine.
@@TheJtorres182 don't forget that we all now know that David needs many inches. For some reason that needed to be shared with the viewer. LTT is now quantity over quality and these jokes that even linus makes of late don't help the quality. Nothing worse than immature grown ups trying to be funny and aren't.
@@butaudo1918 Its all made worse because the way they "unbox" products on techlinked has become so disgusting and useless. I could tolerate cringe here and there if there was actually any substance, such as using someone who doesn't approach a trackball as an assignment someone forced them to look at.
I’ve used a trackball for 25 years, since I was 6. I’ve had soooo many trackballs. I play games competitively and edit all day in photoshop with a Logitech MX Ergo. I was so excited for a trackball review that could potentially be an upgrade. I love David’s approach to things. Next time get someone who daily drives a trackball to review a trackball. It’s too much of an initial relearning curve to make a quick video about.
yeah it took me over a year after i moved to a trackball to get back to where i was with a traditional mouse but without any of the pain from my carpel tunnel sadly the development in thumb-trackballs has died over the years not to mention the continual drop in qaulity my trackman wheel lasted 15 years before its mouse buttons started to die while i go through a modern m570 in about 18 months and is quite a disapointment
I've also used many trackballs and for a long time. Not quite 25 years, but I found the MX less comfortable than the m570, the ball seemed to be more contained and not flow as freely. And the software was absolute garbage, it didn't even have acceleration controls. I sent it back.
I think your issue here is assuming the video is aimed at you. It is aimed at people like David who are curious about trackballs and this is probably pretty representative of what to expect if they first try it.
I am a trackball gamer. Bad wrist and so I use the Logitec m575. It is a right handed thumb mouseball and is actually decemt to use in fps games as long as your not crazy competative. This mouse in the video doesnt look like it would save your wrist at all (fingers have less degrees of freedom than the thumb) and i personally would be less accurate when straining myself (which i dont with my thumb). In summary, if you are right handed and want a good gaming trackball buy the m575 if your cheap (around 40 euros) or the MX Ergo if you got cash (around 80 euros).
Thumb trackballs are pretty good too, I work and game with my Logitech m570. I would say it's better than a mouse, didn't take long to get used to it. One thing is you need to pop the ball out every once in a while and clean out where it slides, really depends on your skin or dust in the room, personally have to do it a few times a day though it takes just a few seconds. I think this is why they are unpopular, people don't know you have to keep the insides clean, use them with greasy fingers, and then don't like how unprecise and slow it gets. Edit: my favorite game is Doom Eternal, not a casual strategy game.
Biggest feature aside from ergonomics is the introduction of the scrolling functions. So far Kensington and GameBall have the only trackballs with specific scrolling wheel functions that I'm aware of. Shocking that Logitech hasn't caught up, since their trackball is widely accepted as the most ergonomic.
@@CodeVenomSnakes i used to play diablo, halo, modern warfare 2019 etc. I switched to an MX master 3 and g502 hero though. I still use the trackball for random productivity stuff when im on the go. I got my mom the same trackball for her home office and she loves it
I think there are three main advantages of using a trackball after using 5-6 different types of balls over the years: 1. "Physical" acceleration - mouse users either love or hate simulated acceleration, but with a trackball you can physically hold the ball in place or flick it wildly, getting decent precision and great range at the same time. 2. Low strain over long sessions (needs a trackball with great ergonomics) - the only device I can play Stellaris with for over 12 hours straight without any muscle discomfort is actually an "office" trackball, the Kensington Expert Mouse. 3. Ball scrolling - you'd think this is a minor feature, but it's so much more satisfying being able to hold down a button and use the ball to scroll. You have so much more control over scrolling speed, and you have enough range of motion to accommodate pesky scroll speed differences between applications. You can easily do horizontal scrolls too!
Here was my biggest breakthrough when learning to use a trackball for either productivity or gaming: *you can to take your fingers off the ball when you click*. Allowing you to completely isolate aiming / selection from action is what makes trackballs so amazing for precision work.
When I use my trackball mouse (a Kensington Orbit w/ scroll wheel), I usually have my index and middle fingers spread out more on the ball (like, at 45 + 135 degrees) for smaller, more precise movement, relaxed. 'Rocking' left or right for accurate movement on the horizontal plane, or curling my index and doing a 'push' or 'pull' with it for accurate vertical moves. Then like, 'rotating' for diagonal. With my fingers closer together and more curled, I can get the wider, rapid movements, from one side of my monitor to the other instantly, which is useful in some games. If you keep the ball clean and lubed, you can flick and do a total 180 instantly. Lift your fingers from the ball entirely and just rapidly hit the button, excellent for spamming an attack on one specific enemy coming at you. Being able to click without worrying about shifting aim has actually been really helpful with builds in Minecraft, for example.
I used a trackball for gaming for years, it takes getting used to. But, I mostly used a Logitech thumb ball trackball and I think that is far more useable for gaming since it frees up your fingers for clicking and gives you a traditional scroll wheel. As a long term trackball user, this gaming trackball in the video just looks awkward and uncomfortable to use.
I use the m570 for work and if I use it for games it feels just as natural as a mouse. I just prefer using a mouse for fps games but for non fps games a trackball is a good way to go.
@@SuperBroChris I use a Logitech g502 spectrum and my son has a Logitech g900 spectrum for most gaming, nothing comes close to Logitech for mice or trackballs.
trackballs are great when you want a) something that will generally not move when you take your hand off it, b) something that works on a small desk (or no desk I use one for my e-drums), like a small standing podium or desk c) ultra fine precision but short throw distances. They're pretty bad at constant movement and long distance movement. They're great for spreadsheets, music production (seriously try and find a pro who doesn't have one on their desk somewhere), RTS games, web surfing small/zero desks.
I used various trackballs to play casual-ish FPS (like Borderlands), RTSs and RPGs (action, MMO, the regular kind) and had little trouble with those. Granted, I won't be doing any flick headshots using my Kensington Slim Blade, but to be fair, at my age, I won't be doing flick shots using a mouse either. It all comes down to training and habit; I started using a thumb trackball due to RSI and I hated it for the first month or so; then I switched to an index finger trackball and I hated it too at first; the only trackball I didn't hate at first was a palm one (the aforementioned Slim Blade), but that's probably because I used trackballs for years at that point. Nowadays, almost a decade in, I'm fine with any trackball, but I hate using mice.
Thumb trackballs are great for most games. The only thing that gives me trouble is games where you have to move all over the screen quickly like RTS games, or something like kiting in a game like Diablo.
I think the problem with trackball is that we, mouse users, are accustomed to using our index and middle fingers for the left and right click. So for shooting games, our wrists are used for pointing direction and index/middle finger for firing/scoping on a regular mouse; whereas with a trackball, our index and middle fingers are already busy with maneuvering the ball, and we have to utilize our thumb and ring finger for the left and right clicks.
One of my favorite mice was the microsoft trackball and as pointed out dust was a huge issue with it I was constantly having to clean it out, but now I don't want to give up my G600, gotta have all the buttons and still waiting on a wireless G600.
I use a g600 also, i want a light with weights version (because i think a lot of people like how heavy it is, i hate), infinite scroll wheel and better onboard memory and wireless
I have some built up tension in my arm and wrist and this would tip me over the edge. All the small movements of your fingers are actually pretty taxing on your arm
I had no idea prior to today that David was a rampant homosexual. To be honest, I hadn't gave it a thought and just assumed he was straight. As the saying goes, you do indeed learn something new every day and fair play in any case, I raise my glass to you... Or as gay people would say, "bottoms up". Continue about your business good sir.
@@FlappyPoosay (my previous reply disappeared).... Agreed... However when you look at the whole picture, nails, choice of piercings, pride t-shirt, glasses and mannerisms/inflections (which is the most obvious and I did not realise in previous videos), then it is clear the chap is committed to and takes fudge packing very seriously. Do not for one second assume I have a problem with this or gay people in general (this is what makes me think the reason my previous reply was incorrectly removed), its no different to someone deducing I am straight - Its an observation and acceptable for someone to make.
I have to use a trackball due to my wrist. It's honestly super easy to use, once you've used it for like... an hour. Specifically the style where the ball is under your thumb: It's VERY close to a normal mouse.
Now that I got to your shooter demo, I'd never get a centered ball like that. I'll stick to a right-hander trackball with the ball under the thumb and my hand keeps a very neutral curve. Elecom Ex-G forthewin
I never liked the ones that put the trackball under like a single finger/thumb. Admittedly I haven't used one in awhile but the ones with the bigger balls closer to the palm were always my jam like the classic kensington with the four buttons.
The main selling point for me is that they are so comfortable to use when paired with a keypad - especially as they allow me to sit reclined back in my comfy gaming chair, as opposed to leaning over to the desk. So far ive only used the Kensington Orbit Fusion Wireless, which is a "finger trackball" (as opposed to a "thumb brackball"), and i REALLY enjoy the ergonomics of this thing compared to any mouse i have used. For me the button placements here are PERFECT, and i absolutely love it for everything except FPS games, where i find it more in the "acceptable" range, and even this is mostly based on the "comfort": * Click latency is supposedly around 50ms (Gameball is 33.8ms), which is "useable" TO ME, but competitive FPS players with lightning reflexes will probably hate it. * Using the thumb for shooting is not as fast as using the index finger (at least for me) * The scroll wheel is placed in a position where i repeatedly manage to touch it, and end up changing weapons in the middle of a fight. The Gameball seems even worse, as it has a touch strip at the same location. * DPI settings is 3 steps. I prefer 2 steps for FPS games... As far as aiming goes, trackballs have both benefits and drawbacks, but i think it could be very good, and especially if you get good at "flicking" (spinning the ball). As my Kensington has dropped to the floor a few too many times, it is not working in optimal conditions anymore, so i decided to try a thumb ball, and ordered the MX Ergo, which is supposedly "only" 12.8ms latency (with the receiver - 18ms with bluetooth). This should be plenty good enough click latency for me. Using the thumb for aiming will probably not take TOO much time to get used to, and even though the MX Ergo has a smaller ball than the Kensington, i suspect that the thumb gives better precision than the fingers, which should make up for the smaller ball diameter. The MX Ergo also does left clicking with the index finger, which should help in FPS games.
I remeber this dude from before. Why is he so cool now? All the pastel colors, painted nails and Eltonish glasses. He rocks the sh** out. Next time I hope he has a jacket to match that. =)
I've used trackball on and off for a while and I don't really like this design for gaming. I tend to prefer either the thumb ball style of mouse or the style where it's a larger ball in the middle like the kensington trackballs. This kind just feels like it would be less precise and harder to use without some significant time trying to get used to it.
I use the ELECOM HUGE trackball exclusively: - rest your fingers gently on the ball - roll your wrist by making small movement where it is resting on the base - try not to control the ball with your fingers, just change their resting position as needed. If you try to control a trackball with your fingers then your hand will start hurting after a while.
Was searching for someone to mention elecom. I've got their EX-G Pro and have been using one (including for gaming) since at least 2016 when my previous Logitech trackball died. The extra buttons are very handy. Glad I'm not the only one buying their products!
I've always owned a Logitech trackball since 1998. It started with a trackBall marble wheel. My brother didn't know what to give me at Christmas and came up with this. Took me three weeks to get used to it and I was hooked. I now use a MX Ergo advanced wireless trackball as my daily driver and it's awesome. I wouldn't use it for games though.
I found them great for traveling with my laptop back when track pads sucked and were in the center. But they've gotten better and in some laptops you have the pad in a better local.
I got my first trackball due to suffering from RSI. I started using it left handed as my right was too damaged. I'm learning a trackball might as well learn left handed at the same time. It took some time but I got used to it.
I like how fast David talks and at precision. I think he's right up there with Laser James, Riley, and Alex Clarke & Lois. His energy and familiarity with gaming makes him a good source for this type of exploration. If not James, Riley, or Alex, then David all the way, LET'S GO!
One good advantage of trackball mouse is then you just can't use ordinary mouse, for example: VR, and AR, when you not sitting on chair in front of the table, but you are walking in the room for vr, or in the street for ar, in that situation you still need some controller for menu, and web navigation, and best way to do it is cursor, and only one viable possibility to use cursor without mouse is handheld trackbal controller.
I like David's energy. He's came a long way since the days when he would be so nervous and sweat uncontrollably on screen to Carpool Critics to being an exciting host for a video.
I think the ambidextrous design was a mistake. They also should have put the ball in the "thumb" position. I use a logitech trackball (similar layout to the M570, but I don't know the exact model) at work on my SMT line and I think with some practice and sensitivity tuning it wouldn't be too bad for gaming.
i use a trackball for everything (including gaming) but not the finger style. i much prefer the thumb control style and i think even i would have a hard time getting used to this product. would def be more interested/willing to invest in a "gaming" trackball that was thumb control.
I use a left-handed trackball for my PC gaming. The trackball shown is oriented the wrong way for fast movement. As shown in the video, fingers that are better for clicking buttons are what land on the ball. In essence, this leaves you only able to press one button. Trying to move the ball with your thumb causes muscle discomfort that I can tell you from previous trackball experiences can be difficult to overcome.
Weirdly, in my case, I played games with a mouse and keyboard for literally decades, but when I decided to try out a trackball (the Elecom Deft Pro, at first, Gameball second), I was immediately better with it. I have no idea why, but perhaps it's just the opposite of what you said about the mouse being a natural expression of your arm movement; I never got that muscle memory nailed down but the trackball/finger motions came much more naturally. I did my warm-up period with Left 4 Dead 2, just because it's a target-rich game and it scores your accuracy at the end of each round, and even just on the first few rounds I played I was up by about 7% over my best mouse scores. Now a few months in, I'm consistently about 15-20% more accurate, and I play all my favorite action and shooter games with the Gameball. Just finished Doom: Eternal on Nightmare difficulty with it. The key is to never assume one peripheral is going to be the universal solution. Try a trackball. Try a mouse. Heck, try a trackpad. Pick the one you're best with and hone that skill.
maybe it's just be but I'm more interested in how the host looks especially fly today than the product. the nail paint, the funky eyeglass frames and the cute logo on the tshirt, the ear piercing YOU LOOK GREAT, KEEP ROCKING IT
Yeah, it drives me crazy that so many of the high end trackballs are wired. I can't use a wired one in my couch setup, I did years ago when wireless wasn't as much of a thing and I sent my mouse flying many times tripping over the cord.
Its NOT the first gaming trackball. In the late '90s there was the MadCatz Panther XL, a joystick trackball combo. After they went OP, there where sites that would repair/replace parts for you. Once you got use to it, it was my favorite FPS controller. The joystick on the right was your WASD with a bunch of customizable extra buttons on it, the trackball acted as your mouse, with a couple of extra buttons. It was actually pretty awesome.
10:24 your index finger literally has the most precision and articulation. you are using it wrong. rest your palm on the device with a single finger on the ball.
Single finger? Really? The trackball is usually so big that I always assume you use it with more than one finger, but I guess that's the thing. If you're not used to it you don't know.
@@SilverEye91 i haven't got to use one of these daily for nearly 15 years, but i used the hell out of the marble mouse in many quake based first person shooters and in starsiege:tribes to extremely good effect. i even bought myself a used marble mouse for nostalgia a couple years ago but the ball was damaged. this "mouse" really made me happy and i plan to buy one to try it out.
@@kght222 I also got pretty tempted. But I'm not sure if the center placement is better or worse than the thumb placement alternatives. I'm gonna have to find a store that sells them and try them out. Or I guess deal with annoying returns...
Have you cut down to a ten keyless keyboard and used higher dpi? Definitely don't need a "gaming" trackball for WoW, most trackballs would be fine with WoW
I've switched to trackballs for RSI reasons and kept my mouse for gaming nearby. One day I noticed that my aiming was off more than usual and only then I noticed that I was still using the track ball.
Excellent review, but if you're going to wear a nail polish color that contrasts as vividly with the product as that, touch it up before filming a bunch of closeups of your hands. I love the color, but it would have been way less distracting if there was a fresh coat that went down to the cuticle.
I usually use a thumb trackball. But if you were to supinate your hand to 45 degree angle, that might allow you to toggle the trackball with a more circular direction....
This video basically made me feel odd.. I legit gamed with a trackball for like 2 years a wile back. (Like CS 1.6 and other FPSs) I liked how acceleration worked. I had it set with Low sensitivity, high acceleration.. made it really easy to switch between slow or deliberate and crazy fast, twitch like turning. Edit: I feel the need to mention that I used the thumb kind not the finger kind. I feel like that’s an important distinction.
This reminds me of the Logitech Trackman Marble I used to use. For that, I mostly used both my index and middle finger together to control it, occasionally even adding my ring finger to that (2-3 fingers on it). Personally, I prefer thumb trackballs, but the larger center trackballs are still pretty nice (and ambidextrous). Large center trackball is more precise, but thumb trackball has a proper scroll wheel.
I've used my first trackball like this in Quake 3 and never looked back. I find it especially useful in first person games where you can continously turn around by just moving two fingers.
probably one of the most lacking reviews I've seen on this channel. Not a single mention of how this trackball actually has 'gaming' focused features or not compared to other trackballs. The point of this product isn't to be 'better' performing than a mouse. it's to provide a decent gaming device for people who are planning to(or already have) made the switch to a trackball. Does this have lower latency than other trackballs? better sensors? less skipping? these are the questions that should have been discussed. But instead we got a pointless fps shooting comparison with a mouse. disappointed on this one.
I thought it was really weird in the middle where he was listing features on "gaming" mice that make 'em better than "regular" mice and then followed by saying he doesn't see how that applies to a trackball… its very raison d'être…
Personal experience: I switched to a vertical mouse ever since I experienced soreness and sometimes pain, on my shoulder and arm. That helps a lot but the soreness would still have occurred sometimes. Then I moved to a Logitech Trackman Marbell, before settled on a Logitech MX Ergo. Since then, no more shoulder and arm soreness, as it happens on my palm now, IF, I am holding the device for too long. So take a break from computer usage, every 30 minutes, your body will thank you and save a lot on physiotherapy bills.
I see your nail game is on-point, David. Did you paint them yourself? That aside, unless you’re already used to a track ball, I feel like gyro aiming & flick stick would be better for shooters if you don’t have enough table room for a mouse.
I spent the whole thing thinking that not having an underside laser sensor was a missed oppertunity; I use gyro + pad on my steam controller and I could see this having the same 'fine tuning' potential if combined with a traditional mouse setup.
I switched to a Logitec Tracman Marble for FPS gaming back in the early 2Ks. Back then I was playing a ton of Unreal Tournament and got damn good with the Tracman. I still have one, and regularly break it out for arena shooters like that to this day. What attracted me to it in the first place was that it used an optical sensor instead of the roller-ball mechanism used in other pointing devices of the day. Today we take high-DPI optical sensors for granted, but my Tracman was the first optical pointing device I ever had. It was WAY more accurate and reliable than any mouse I'd had to that point. To answer the question about the finger vs. hand movement. I developed a technique where for big movements I would just brush my fingers across the ball (or just spin it for 360s) so the motion was mostly in the wrist, then for fine-tuned movements I would grab the ball with my index and middle fingers and could rock side to side to center perfectly or follow a target. There was a learning curve to be sure, but once I got the technique down I could play for hours without any fatigue.
I used a finger track ball mouse for years. They were miles ahead of other mice at the time. You can use high DPI, controlled with your fingertips. WAY quicker and more precise then pre high end laser sensor mice.
You need to curl your fingers more when you're using a trackball, to prevent strain and stuff. Also allows for better snap movements and stuff.
And stuff.
@@mavfan1 And stuff.
@@MikeStavola And stuff.
@@BenDover-gc5nw and stuff
@@nelsonmachupa And stuff.
I've been using trackballs for gaming since the late 90's. There is a substantial amount of time needed to acclimate. I prefer the larger ball style (kensington expert trackball) and dialing in the settings (moderate sensitivity and high ramp speed with a smallish non ramp area) means i can get (sniper pixel by pixel) fine control and throw and catch for 360 spin(with practice there is minimal vertical drift and what is there is compsated for as the target nears the cross hairs)
Same here, I keep mine very sensitive and never have to spin it, and have it so my thumb range matches my screen. I have all my fingers for extra buttons and I can set up anywhere, no need for a mouse pad and can place my arm where it is most comfortable. With a good game pad I never have to reach for anything. Once you know how to use a trackball you will never go back.
I love my trackball as well. The only downside is regularly having to clean it out. But I consider that minor.
Trackball is soooo bad I only use it for the meme. After ten years my aim is still crap and the ergonomics are horrible but the reactions people have to a trackball gamer make it worth it.
@@CombatBanana Sounds like you're a bad stereotype. Not just anyone can claim to stay bad at something after a decade of practice.
what do you use to adjust the sensitivity?
i have a logi m575 and idk if that offers the same degree of adjustment, i only remember seeing sensitivity
When you play FPS on a "centre ball" trackball, you typically shoot with your thumb. Isolating your thumb movements to the other fingers is very difficult and usually means that you slip from the target when firing. That said, I think a centre ball is amazing for productivity. I use a Trackman Marble at work since 7 years and I like it a lot. But for gaming a thumb trackball is the best. I use the Logitech M570 trackball at home for gaming and the precision is just better in every way when doing complex movements like in FPS or MOBA games.
I find moving the fire binding off of the trackball helps aim
I played CS with Centre ball mouse or normal and i was with both very good no difference u need just get used to it :)
thumb on center ball? right... did you make it up ?
I find thumb balls don't give the same rsi benefits, as the center, though.
a heavier and larger ball eliminates this nearly entirely, FWIW. I had the same problem when using smaller ball trackballs (the Logitech one, the other two button Kensington makes when i was traveling), but i do not have this problem with the Expert Mouse.
I used to be a banking consultant and we all had those on our desk. It just looks better because you are not sliding around the desk with a customer sitting there and you can use you space for something else. I would always recommend those for your non-gaming needs.
Also love the hosting. Very cool, very authentic, precise. Another true character. Thumbs up.
Dude said "cheap mouse" I instantly looked to my side... It's my mouse.
There is a substantial learning curve to those, I moved myself to trackballs, particularly from logitech (especially MX Ergo) due to carpal tunnel thing and I never looked back. I still couldn't get my trackball to work on FPS games, but I know it is achievable, I just don't play those games too much to care about those anyway. For other games it works really well for me and ergonomics is something that none of the mice could match for me. It is a niche product, but worth looking at for those who look for something else than just a typical mouse. Precision moves can be achieved easily after some getting used to. With this trackball after HOURS of usage my hand is not in pain whatsoever, no fatigue, that's what I love in those products. You need to have your hand relaxed and you position your hand differently than with mice.
Even with mice, a comfortable relaxed, almost resting position and not doing constant big movements or of that position seems key in dialing in ergonomics, from your chair, to monitor, to keyboard, not just mouse, trackball. Being able to dial (customize) everything in to your body is key to ergonomics. Although, I know what you mean. With keyboard mouse, resting on them is bad ergonomically, hovering over in the right position with arm aloft. With trackball, you rest on it, in the right position.
(to anyone reading, not specifically OP) If you're working in office, have the ergo guy come in and help you dial in and remember and do the same for yourself at home. Your bodies will thank you. Even if you don't feel anything and you're young. A decade of good ergo will make a difference.
The good thing with Logitech MX Ergo is there is a tiny button next to the trackball so user can toggle it to slow down the dpi for better precision.
I think an important point to mention with products like this is more "Does it make gaming accesible to more people?" People with RSI, disabilities, even someone with a temporary disability like a broken arm or something of the sort and less "Should you ditch your mouse for this", mostly because it's impossible to compare the potential of using a trackball to the years of mouse use most of us have
Exactly! Well said. I think this guy absolutely missed the mark with this review. I'm kind of surprised that they let this slide and allowed him to kind of crap on it and anyone who would want to use it most of the video. They created this for a reason and there's other products that exist for a reason.
Would love to see this compared to the basic $40 option from Logitech. I can't imagine they are much different.
You could make the same statement about any normal mouse. It would only be as different as you would be able to recognize the differences ya know?
The only Logitech trackball, I could even was the Cordless optical trackball and that thing is $80 now and is so many eras behind I can confidently say this blows that out of the water without trying. The Logitech don't have the dpi to compete. Those that like thumb balls are better served by basic Logitech. If you prefer index, middle ring, Logitech generally loses to other balls in hand, including Kensington, but again there's that latency and dpi missing from the equation. I haven't paid attention if they added the features you'd want gaming though. Logitech could totally make a lightspeed trackball with the dpis, the thumb and finger style, but they don't bother, which is frustrating. The time someone makes a real breakthrough in this market, then Logitech will come in and make one and out market the one that people should really buy, though, cuz they are too lame to break ground, only steal it.
Logitech's of this style hasnt been updated in over 10 years so you have no DPI control, or even scrolling.
Now their thumb style has gotten a bunch of development with lots of improvements in the MX Ergo.
Well, they are very much different. I have both.
Then you need to expand your imagination. When I was in the market for a trackball (I use Elecom now cause the game ball would've blown my budget) one MAJOR thing that became apparent was Sensor refresh rate and precision. Logitech hasn't used better sensors in any of their trackball in decades
did they really just remake the marble mouse? i was using one of those when i was a top tribes 1 dueler back in 2001.
i want one of these. and your reviewer has no idea what he is talking about. not just concerning trackballs. if he knew what he was talking about he would have some idea of the history, THIS IS A MARBLE MOUSE REFRESH. it is a classic.
@@kght222 Logitech marble !!!
@@thermostance1815 Yup, I still got mine buried in a box somewhere.
@@machinist7230 Still got mine plugged into my legacy ps/2 port!
@@machinist7230 mine gave out a bit ago Andi haven't gotten around to fixing it :(
Would like to point out that when optical mice didnt exist the trackball was far superior to a ball mouse, so yes you can get used to gaming with a trackball. They used to be the got to for RTS players. I cant count how many hours of C&C Red Alert I played with one!
I do love me some balls. Been using them since 1979, also, trackballs since 2006.
Sus 😂
Been daily driving the GameBall for 2 years now (Have a prototype from hardware testing, and a Limited Edition from the July 2021 backer release). I absolutely recommend it for other trackballers! Been gaming with a trackball since I switched to the Microsoft Trackball Explorer back in 2004.
Also, fun fact: Mouse acceleration was invented primarily FOR trackballs (and ball mice). ABSOLUTELY recommend using mouse accel with the GameBall.
Secondly; for proper usage, DON'T use the tip of your finger to control the ball, use the meaty part of your fingers (between middle and top knuckle).
Finally a mste, mention. I've been wondering if can build a Ploopy to a more gaming spec
@@bipbop3121 biggest issue would be the polling rate and the sensor CPI. I'm excited to see the new SANWA MSTE clone coming out, as it too apparently has a 3k CPI sensor with 1kHz polling.
That doesn't look like gamer gear. That looks more like the type of accessory someone with a ThinkPad would use.
I think its a nod to older logitec gaming gear. The red and black was pretty popular back then. Back when there wasnt bright colors and stuff on everything
@M P im one of those trackball users lol
Not related but i never seen so much innuendos on a short circuit video before. And i love it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Microsoft Trackball Explorer from 2001 was just about the best trackball ever made. It is still somewhat coveted and extremely hard to find/expensive. If you guys do one of your "old tech" segments again, you should try to find one. I used to use that for pretty intense gaming from Minesweeper to UT2K4. Trackballs in gaming take a little bit to learn. wo fingers on the ball, split slightly apart, fingers curled a bit. You can learn to flick and dive with easily and really nail down accuracy. I wish so much that Microsoft would re-release the Trackball Explorer (not the trackball optical). I miss it :/
I would disagree with some of the other commenters saying that a thumb ball is better than a finger ball. two points of contact beats one any day for precision.
Ploopy makes the Ploopy Classic which is basically exactly what you're looking for. imagine MTE with modern switches, pixart sensor, but 3d printed housing and that's it. the entire thing is open sourced so if you want to make one in 50 years, it'll probably be doable.
I got Track Explorer for a couple of bucks while thrift shopping and thought that it would be nice to have a trackball for a more cluttered workbench and since it's made by Microsoft it should be pretty decent. I had no idea how revered it is -- change the bearings with some new ceramic ones and it's pretty much flawless.
Microsoft should definitely do a re-release.
I believe the ball has that glitter type effect is so the optical sensor can run at those high DPI.
That would make a lot of sense
I've been using trackballs for a bit over 10 years and yes, they take a while to get used to even for regular productivity work but once it 'clicks' with you then you don't want to let go. It took me a long time to actually get good at games, specially FPS games, with it but it can be done. I am a fan of Logitech's trackballs, with the M570 being the one that I have used the most but the MX Ergo is the one that has worked the best for me for gaming, it is much more customizable and with the toggles to move between different dpi settings I felt like I had more control while gaming.
But I'll be honest, a few years after using them and with my wrists healed up I returned to use regular mouse for gaming but only for gaming, I don't like them for regular computer use and even less for work, but for the couple of hours a week I manage to play shooter games I feel a regular mouse still is a better option, for everything else trackballs suit me best.
it took me a few minutes to click
I use the MX ergo and I love it (with a 3d printed add-on to add a better angle to it)
Same. I use it for games almost everything besides games that require aiming, and games that I use a Xbox controller, like race and platform. For WORK, that's where it really shines imo.
I have both the ergo and the m575 and I prefer the m575, which is also lighter for travelling
@@rca168 I used the 575 as my first trackball (that worked for me) years ago, but I prefer the ergo now just becouse I find it to be more comfortable
I too started with the 575 and now use the ergo. I use ot daily for work and gaming.
I've used a Logitech Trackman Marble similar to that for gaming for over 20 years. They still make it, although the old one had a PS2 port, and had better bearings for the trackball than the new one (steel vs. plastic). It is only half the price of this one.
a Logitech trackback is also half this price.
you can get an MX ergo for this price.
@@FaultyStreams specifically 2/3 this price and without the carpal tunnel in your hand.
I've been exclusively using trackballs (for gaming, work, and personal use) for over 7 years. I do a lot of CAD work, so maybe using it for fine movements there has helped me use it for gaming, but it just seems so natural to me now.
We have a dude at our lanparties that use one of those square Kensington track balls and he's actually pretty darn good at FPS games.
I think people completely miss the point of this video. The video is not to show every single possible use case scenario of a trackball. It is a short introduction for people who have never used one and who might be thinking about it. He is showing what a beginner might notice and deal with when they first get one. It is there to help us decide whether we want to switch and deal with all the hurdles and the learning curve. That is it. He literally said he thinks people should check it out but that he can not recommend it to absolutely everyone. How is that a bad take? How many people do you know that use this kinda thing? It is a very niche use case and that is fine.
The Logitech Trackman was my favorite mouse, it was like no other mouse at the time. Now I'm using an MX Master 3, times have changed.
Not the MSFT Trackball Explorer 😱‼️
I wonder if this review would have been more interesting if it also included gaming from someone who is comfortable with using trackballs.
They did several seconds of balls in mouth jokes and 0 seconds adjusting the sensitivity, they couldn't care less about the products.
@@TheJtorres182 don't forget that we all now know that David needs many inches. For some reason that needed to be shared with the viewer. LTT is now quantity over quality and these jokes that even linus makes of late don't help the quality. Nothing worse than immature grown ups trying to be funny and aren't.
@@butaudo1918 Its all made worse because the way they "unbox" products on techlinked has become so disgusting and useless. I could tolerate cringe here and there if there was actually any substance, such as using someone who doesn't approach a trackball as an assignment someone forced them to look at.
Too busy painting his nails to bother with a proper review
@@TheJtorres182 this is literally a random unboxing channel...
Dang, now I want some balls in my gaming...
Looks incredibly awkward to use, though I am fairly accustomed to my MX Ergo which I use pretty much for everything including intense FPS games.
I’ve used a trackball for 25 years, since I was 6. I’ve had soooo many trackballs. I play games competitively and edit all day in photoshop with a Logitech MX Ergo. I was so excited for a trackball review that could potentially be an upgrade. I love David’s approach to things. Next time get someone who daily drives a trackball to review a trackball. It’s too much of an initial relearning curve to make a quick video about.
yeah it took me over a year after i moved to a trackball to get back to where i was with a traditional mouse but without any of the pain from my carpel tunnel sadly the development in thumb-trackballs has died over the years not to mention the continual drop in qaulity my trackman wheel lasted 15 years before its mouse buttons started to die while i go through a modern m570 in about 18 months and is quite a disapointment
You think they have a daily trackball user at LTT ? In my entire life I only knew one person who used one.
I've also used many trackballs and for a long time. Not quite 25 years, but I found the MX less comfortable than the m570, the ball seemed to be more contained and not flow as freely. And the software was absolute garbage, it didn't even have acceleration controls. I sent it back.
I think your issue here is assuming the video is aimed at you.
It is aimed at people like David who are curious about trackballs and this is probably pretty representative of what to expect if they first try it.
@@Gatorade69 Considering how many video editors etc they have, I would not be surprised if they have a few who use trackballs daily.
I am a trackball gamer. Bad wrist and so I use the Logitec m575. It is a right handed thumb mouseball and is actually decemt to use in fps games as long as your not crazy competative. This mouse in the video doesnt look like it would save your wrist at all (fingers have less degrees of freedom than the thumb) and i personally would be less accurate when straining myself (which i dont with my thumb).
In summary, if you are right handed and want a good gaming trackball buy the m575 if your cheap (around 40 euros) or the MX Ergo if you got cash (around 80 euros).
I see a lot of love for thumbball, but I love the precision of a fingerball. Also less RSI if you hold it at a good angle.
Used this Ball since launch. It's great. Love it.
do you live on a boat? because that's the mouse to use, when you're living on a boat.
So they didn't... Drop the ball?
I use a trackball for everything, but one of the thumb-driven Logitech ones. Would love to see a higher poll-rate version of those
Not sure how this is the "world's first gaming trackball" - Sega's World Cup arcade cabinet had a trackball back in 1978...
I'd assume they're reffering to a dedicated PC gaming trackball not an integrated console or cabinet one
Thumb trackballs are pretty good too, I work and game with my Logitech m570. I would say it's better than a mouse, didn't take long to get used to it. One thing is you need to pop the ball out every once in a while and clean out where it slides, really depends on your skin or dust in the room, personally have to do it a few times a day though it takes just a few seconds. I think this is why they are unpopular, people don't know you have to keep the insides clean, use them with greasy fingers, and then don't like how unprecise and slow it gets.
Edit: my favorite game is Doom Eternal, not a casual strategy game.
Biggest feature aside from ergonomics is the introduction of the scrolling functions. So far Kensington and GameBall have the only trackballs with specific scrolling wheel functions that I'm aware of. Shocking that Logitech hasn't caught up, since their trackball is widely accepted as the most ergonomic.
I used a logitec trackball for gaming for years, its pretty great
Logitech trackman optical for me. Been using for 15 years, picked one up on eBay when the first died
What do you play with the Logitech Trackball?
@@CodeVenomSnakes i used to play diablo, halo, modern warfare 2019 etc. I switched to an MX master 3 and g502 hero though. I still use the trackball for random productivity stuff when im on the go. I got my mom the same trackball for her home office and she loves it
@@retrorewind6042 I am guessing you are cracked with a trackball for gaming.
@@CodeVenomSnakes im average-above average depending on what game im on. I dont game too much anymore so my skills have gotten slightly rusty
00:07 - "NOOO-HO-HO" 00:10 - "noooooouuuu"
Just watched this dude waggle his fingers for 10 minutes
The nails...the glasses...*stands up and applauds* fucking king shit. I love it dude
A handicapped friend use something similar, the m570 from logi. its not allowing him to have a huge level of play but at least he is having fun.
Someone send this to Louis Rossmann, he loves his track ball.
Sorry the host is more Than I can handle
I think there are three main advantages of using a trackball after using 5-6 different types of balls over the years:
1. "Physical" acceleration - mouse users either love or hate simulated acceleration, but with a trackball you can physically hold the ball in place or flick it wildly, getting decent precision and great range at the same time.
2. Low strain over long sessions (needs a trackball with great ergonomics) - the only device I can play Stellaris with for over 12 hours straight without any muscle discomfort is actually an "office" trackball, the Kensington Expert Mouse.
3. Ball scrolling - you'd think this is a minor feature, but it's so much more satisfying being able to hold down a button and use the ball to scroll. You have so much more control over scrolling speed, and you have enough range of motion to accommodate pesky scroll speed differences between applications. You can easily do horizontal scrolls too!
You're talking about balls but this video is not sponsored by Manscaped?!
Here was my biggest breakthrough when learning to use a trackball for either productivity or gaming: *you can to take your fingers off the ball when you click*. Allowing you to completely isolate aiming / selection from action is what makes trackballs so amazing for precision work.
I used to game on ball mice and trackball setups back in CS v1.3, Unreal Tournament 2003 and Quake days.
When I use my trackball mouse (a Kensington Orbit w/ scroll wheel), I usually have my index and middle fingers spread out more on the ball (like, at 45 + 135 degrees) for smaller, more precise movement, relaxed. 'Rocking' left or right for accurate movement on the horizontal plane, or curling my index and doing a 'push' or 'pull' with it for accurate vertical moves. Then like, 'rotating' for diagonal. With my fingers closer together and more curled, I can get the wider, rapid movements, from one side of my monitor to the other instantly, which is useful in some games. If you keep the ball clean and lubed, you can flick and do a total 180 instantly. Lift your fingers from the ball entirely and just rapidly hit the button, excellent for spamming an attack on one specific enemy coming at you. Being able to click without worrying about shifting aim has actually been really helpful with builds in Minecraft, for example.
I used a trackball for gaming for years, it takes getting used to. But, I mostly used a Logitech thumb ball trackball and I think that is far more useable for gaming since it frees up your fingers for clicking and gives you a traditional scroll wheel. As a long term trackball user, this gaming trackball in the video just looks awkward and uncomfortable to use.
I use the m570 for work and if I use it for games it feels just as natural as a mouse. I just prefer using a mouse for fps games but for non fps games a trackball is a good way to go.
@@SuperBroChris I use a Logitech g502 spectrum and my son has a Logitech g900 spectrum for most gaming, nothing comes close to Logitech for mice or trackballs.
trackballs are great when you want a) something that will generally not move when you take your hand off it, b) something that works on a small desk (or no desk I use one for my e-drums), like a small standing podium or desk c) ultra fine precision but short throw distances.
They're pretty bad at constant movement and long distance movement.
They're great for spreadsheets, music production (seriously try and find a pro who doesn't have one on their desk somewhere), RTS games, web surfing small/zero desks.
I've been gaming with a Kensington Pro trackball for 25+ years. Would never go back to a mere mouse.
I think the old Missile Command cabinets would dispute that 'first gaming trackball' claim.
I used various trackballs to play casual-ish FPS (like Borderlands), RTSs and RPGs (action, MMO, the regular kind) and had little trouble with those. Granted, I won't be doing any flick headshots using my Kensington Slim Blade, but to be fair, at my age, I won't be doing flick shots using a mouse either.
It all comes down to training and habit; I started using a thumb trackball due to RSI and I hated it for the first month or so; then I switched to an index finger trackball and I hated it too at first; the only trackball I didn't hate at first was a palm one (the aforementioned Slim Blade), but that's probably because I used trackballs for years at that point. Nowadays, almost a decade in, I'm fine with any trackball, but I hate using mice.
Thumb trackballs are great for most games. The only thing that gives me trouble is games where you have to move all over the screen quickly like RTS games, or something like kiting in a game like Diablo.
I think the problem with trackball is that we, mouse users, are accustomed to using our index and middle fingers for the left and right click. So for shooting games, our wrists are used for pointing direction and index/middle finger for firing/scoping on a regular mouse; whereas with a trackball, our index and middle fingers are already busy with maneuvering the ball, and we have to utilize our thumb and ring finger for the left and right clicks.
One of my favorite mice was the microsoft trackball and as pointed out dust was a huge issue with it I was constantly having to clean it out, but now I don't want to give up my G600, gotta have all the buttons and still waiting on a wireless G600.
I use a g600 also, i want a light with weights version (because i think a lot of people like how heavy it is, i hate), infinite scroll wheel and better onboard memory and wireless
I have some built up tension in my arm and wrist and this would tip me over the edge. All the small movements of your fingers are actually pretty taxing on your arm
I had no idea prior to today that David was a rampant homosexual. To be honest, I hadn't gave it a thought and just assumed he was straight. As the saying goes, you do indeed learn something new every day and fair play in any case, I raise my glass to you... Or as gay people would say, "bottoms up". Continue about your business good sir.
@@FlappyPoosay (my previous reply disappeared).... Agreed... However when you look at the whole picture, nails, choice of piercings, pride t-shirt, glasses and mannerisms/inflections (which is the most obvious and I did not realise in previous videos), then it is clear the chap is committed to and takes fudge packing very seriously.
Do not for one second assume I have a problem with this or gay people in general (this is what makes me think the reason my previous reply was incorrectly removed), its no different to someone deducing I am straight - Its an observation and acceptable for someone to make.
I have to use a trackball due to my wrist. It's honestly super easy to use, once you've used it for like... an hour. Specifically the style where the ball is under your thumb: It's VERY close to a normal mouse.
Now that I got to your shooter demo, I'd never get a centered ball like that. I'll stick to a right-hander trackball with the ball under the thumb and my hand keeps a very neutral curve. Elecom Ex-G forthewin
I never liked the ones that put the trackball under like a single finger/thumb.
Admittedly I haven't used one in awhile but the ones with the bigger balls closer to the palm were always my jam like the classic kensington with the four buttons.
The main selling point for me is that they are so comfortable to use when paired with a keypad - especially as they allow me to sit reclined back in my comfy gaming chair, as opposed to leaning over to the desk.
So far ive only used the Kensington Orbit Fusion Wireless, which is a "finger trackball" (as opposed to a "thumb brackball"), and i REALLY enjoy the ergonomics of this thing compared to any mouse i have used. For me the button placements here are PERFECT, and i absolutely love it for everything except FPS games, where i find it more in the "acceptable" range, and even this is mostly based on the "comfort":
* Click latency is supposedly around 50ms (Gameball is 33.8ms), which is "useable" TO ME, but competitive FPS players with lightning reflexes will probably hate it.
* Using the thumb for shooting is not as fast as using the index finger (at least for me)
* The scroll wheel is placed in a position where i repeatedly manage to touch it, and end up changing weapons in the middle of a fight. The Gameball seems even worse, as it has a touch strip at the same location.
* DPI settings is 3 steps. I prefer 2 steps for FPS games...
As far as aiming goes, trackballs have both benefits and drawbacks, but i think it could be very good, and especially if you get good at "flicking" (spinning the ball).
As my Kensington has dropped to the floor a few too many times, it is not working in optimal conditions anymore, so i decided to try a thumb ball, and ordered the MX Ergo, which is supposedly "only" 12.8ms latency (with the receiver - 18ms with bluetooth). This should be plenty good enough click latency for me. Using the thumb for aiming will probably not take TOO much time to get used to, and even though the MX Ergo has a smaller ball than the Kensington, i suspect that the thumb gives better precision than the fingers, which should make up for the smaller ball diameter. The MX Ergo also does left clicking with the index finger, which should help in FPS games.
I remeber this dude from before. Why is he so cool now? All the pastel colors, painted nails and Eltonish glasses. He rocks the sh** out. Next time I hope he has a jacket to match that. =)
Trackball mice I find great when it’s designed for left or right hands, and you mostly use your thumb. I can’t fathom using my fingers as a trackball.
I've used trackball on and off for a while and I don't really like this design for gaming. I tend to prefer either the thumb ball style of mouse or the style where it's a larger ball in the middle like the kensington trackballs. This kind just feels like it would be less precise and harder to use without some significant time trying to get used to it.
I use the ELECOM HUGE trackball exclusively:
- rest your fingers gently on the ball
- roll your wrist by making small movement where it is resting on the base
- try not to control the ball with your fingers, just change their resting position as needed.
If you try to control a trackball with your fingers then your hand will start hurting after a while.
It’s hard to justify a $150 trackball when elecom has great trackballs at $50.
Was searching for someone to mention elecom. I've got their EX-G Pro and have been using one (including for gaming) since at least 2016 when my previous Logitech trackball died. The extra buttons are very handy. Glad I'm not the only one buying their products!
I've always owned a Logitech trackball since 1998. It started with a trackBall marble wheel. My brother didn't know what to give me at Christmas and came up with this. Took me three weeks to get used to it and I was hooked. I now use a MX Ergo advanced wireless trackball as my daily driver and it's awesome.
I wouldn't use it for games though.
I found them great for traveling with my laptop back when track pads sucked and were in the center. But they've gotten better and in some laptops you have the pad in a better local.
I got my first trackball due to suffering from RSI. I started using it left handed as my right was too damaged. I'm learning a trackball might as well learn left handed at the same time. It took some time but I got used to it.
I like how fast David talks and at precision. I think he's right up there with Laser James, Riley, and Alex Clarke & Lois. His energy and familiarity with gaming makes him a good source for this type of exploration. If not James, Riley, or Alex, then David all the way, LET'S GO!
One good advantage of trackball mouse is then you just can't use ordinary mouse, for example: VR, and AR, when you not sitting on chair in front of the table, but you are walking in the room for vr, or in the street for ar, in that situation you still need some controller for menu, and web navigation, and best way to do it is cursor, and only one viable possibility to use cursor without mouse is handheld trackbal controller.
I like David's energy. He's came a long way since the days when he would be so nervous and sweat uncontrollably on screen to Carpool Critics to being an exciting host for a video.
I think the ambidextrous design was a mistake. They also should have put the ball in the "thumb" position. I use a logitech trackball (similar layout to the M570, but I don't know the exact model) at work on my SMT line and I think with some practice and sensitivity tuning it wouldn't be too bad for gaming.
New video? Yes sir gimme that good stuff
i use a trackball for everything (including gaming) but not the finger style. i much prefer the thumb control style and i think even i would have a hard time getting used to this product. would def be more interested/willing to invest in a "gaming" trackball that was thumb control.
Linus Nail Polish Tips
I use a left-handed trackball for my PC gaming. The trackball shown is oriented the wrong way for fast movement. As shown in the video, fingers that are better for clicking buttons are what land on the ball. In essence, this leaves you only able to press one button. Trying to move the ball with your thumb causes muscle discomfort that I can tell you from previous trackball experiences can be difficult to overcome.
I was distracted by the nail polish
It's nail polish get over it!
you have a tiny attention span
Weirdly, in my case, I played games with a mouse and keyboard for literally decades, but when I decided to try out a trackball (the Elecom Deft Pro, at first, Gameball second), I was immediately better with it. I have no idea why, but perhaps it's just the opposite of what you said about the mouse being a natural expression of your arm movement; I never got that muscle memory nailed down but the trackball/finger motions came much more naturally. I did my warm-up period with Left 4 Dead 2, just because it's a target-rich game and it scores your accuracy at the end of each round, and even just on the first few rounds I played I was up by about 7% over my best mouse scores. Now a few months in, I'm consistently about 15-20% more accurate, and I play all my favorite action and shooter games with the Gameball. Just finished Doom: Eternal on Nightmare difficulty with it.
The key is to never assume one peripheral is going to be the universal solution. Try a trackball. Try a mouse. Heck, try a trackpad. Pick the one you're best with and hone that skill.
maybe it's just be but I'm more interested in how the host looks especially fly today than the product. the nail paint, the funky eyeglass frames and the cute logo on the tshirt, the ear piercing
YOU LOOK GREAT, KEEP ROCKING IT
Trackballs reduce RSI but increase tendonitis over the top of the hand.
Do they make a wireless one? If so my Dad would probably he's been interested.
Yeah, it drives me crazy that so many of the high end trackballs are wired. I can't use a wired one in my couch setup, I did years ago when wireless wasn't as much of a thing and I sent my mouse flying many times tripping over the cord.
Its NOT the first gaming trackball.
In the late '90s there was the MadCatz Panther XL, a joystick trackball combo. After they went OP, there where sites that would repair/replace parts for you. Once you got use to it, it was my favorite FPS controller. The joystick on the right was your WASD with a bunch of customizable extra buttons on it, the trackball acted as your mouse, with a couple of extra buttons. It was actually pretty awesome.
Finally a lmg video of someone playing with balls. Love it
🧐
Idk why but David using the laptop trackpad instead of the trackball was too funny for me 😂
10:24 your index finger literally has the most precision and articulation. you are using it wrong. rest your palm on the device with a single finger on the ball.
Single finger? Really? The trackball is usually so big that I always assume you use it with more than one finger, but I guess that's the thing. If you're not used to it you don't know.
@@SilverEye91 i haven't got to use one of these daily for nearly 15 years, but i used the hell out of the marble mouse in many quake based first person shooters and in starsiege:tribes to extremely good effect. i even bought myself a used marble mouse for nostalgia a couple years ago but the ball was damaged. this "mouse" really made me happy and i plan to buy one to try it out.
@@kght222 I also got pretty tempted. But I'm not sure if the center placement is better or worse than the thumb placement alternatives. I'm gonna have to find a store that sells them and try them out. Or I guess deal with annoying returns...
I have it and love it, it has the same stiction issues with age as all trackballs.
Would love more ergonomics in gaming mice! Pain in my hand stops me from playing WoW
Your hands are MVP
Have you cut down to a ten keyless keyboard and used higher dpi? Definitely don't need a "gaming" trackball for WoW, most trackballs would be fine with WoW
I've switched to trackballs for RSI reasons and kept my mouse for gaming nearby. One day I noticed that my aiming was off more than usual and only then I noticed that I was still using the track ball.
Excellent review, but if you're going to wear a nail polish color that contrasts as vividly with the product as that, touch it up before filming a bunch of closeups of your hands. I love the color, but it would have been way less distracting if there was a fresh coat that went down to the cuticle.
I usually use a thumb trackball. But if you were to supinate your hand to 45 degree angle, that might allow you to toggle the trackball with a more circular direction....
This video basically made me feel odd.. I legit gamed with a trackball for like 2 years a wile back. (Like CS 1.6 and other FPSs) I liked how acceleration worked.
I had it set with Low sensitivity, high acceleration.. made it really easy to switch between slow or deliberate and crazy fast, twitch like turning.
Edit: I feel the need to mention that I used the thumb kind not the finger kind. I feel like that’s an important distinction.
This reminds me of the Logitech Trackman Marble I used to use. For that, I mostly used both my index and middle finger together to control it, occasionally even adding my ring finger to that (2-3 fingers on it). Personally, I prefer thumb trackballs, but the larger center trackballs are still pretty nice (and ambidextrous). Large center trackball is more precise, but thumb trackball has a proper scroll wheel.
Props to David on his fingernails, eyeglasses frames, and t-shirt.
Xer thanks you
I've used my first trackball like this in Quake 3 and never looked back.
I find it especially useful in first person games where you can continously turn around by just moving two fingers.
probably one of the most lacking reviews I've seen on this channel.
Not a single mention of how this trackball actually has 'gaming' focused features or not compared to other trackballs. The point of this product isn't to be 'better' performing than a mouse. it's to provide a decent gaming device for people who are planning to(or already have) made the switch to a trackball.
Does this have lower latency than other trackballs? better sensors? less skipping? these are the questions that should have been discussed.
But instead we got a pointless fps shooting comparison with a mouse. disappointed on this one.
Isnt the thing with shortcircuit that they dont do reviews?
I found it really useful! The host is hilarious and informative.
@@azyrael96 Yep, this channel is for unboxings and first reactions only. Go to LTT if you want actual reviews (but not of this).
Short-circuit isn't a review channel- they do first looks & unboxings before MAYBE an LTT video review
I thought it was really weird in the middle where he was listing features on "gaming" mice that make 'em better than "regular" mice and then followed by saying he doesn't see how that applies to a trackball… its very raison d'être…
Personal experience: I switched to a vertical mouse ever since I experienced soreness and sometimes pain, on my shoulder and arm. That helps a lot but the soreness would still have occurred sometimes.
Then I moved to a Logitech Trackman Marbell, before settled on a Logitech MX Ergo.
Since then, no more shoulder and arm soreness, as it happens on my palm now, IF, I am holding the device for too long.
So take a break from computer usage, every 30 minutes, your body will thank you and save a lot on physiotherapy bills.
I love David! he is my spirit animal.
NOTE: Ball size: 38.1 mm
I see your nail game is on-point, David. Did you paint them yourself?
That aside, unless you’re already used to a track ball, I feel like gyro aiming & flick stick would be better for shooters if you don’t have enough table room for a mouse.
facts, david's entire look is on point
I spent the whole thing thinking that not having an underside laser sensor was a missed oppertunity; I use gyro + pad on my steam controller and I could see this having the same 'fine tuning' potential if combined with a traditional mouse setup.
I switched to a Logitec Tracman Marble for FPS gaming back in the early 2Ks. Back then I was playing a ton of Unreal Tournament and got damn good with the Tracman. I still have one, and regularly break it out for arena shooters like that to this day.
What attracted me to it in the first place was that it used an optical sensor instead of the roller-ball mechanism used in other pointing devices of the day. Today we take high-DPI optical sensors for granted, but my Tracman was the first optical pointing device I ever had. It was WAY more accurate and reliable than any mouse I'd had to that point.
To answer the question about the finger vs. hand movement. I developed a technique where for big movements I would just brush my fingers across the ball (or just spin it for 360s) so the motion was mostly in the wrist, then for fine-tuned movements I would grab the ball with my index and middle fingers and could rock side to side to center perfectly or follow a target. There was a learning curve to be sure, but once I got the technique down I could play for hours without any fatigue.
Ohhh, I really like Davids nails! They look so pretty!! :)
David’s level of drip in this video is amazing. The nails and those glasses!
@@morningstartv5496 definitely! I also love the little pride cloud on their shirt! :)
@@SamDalfuss69 i didn't really have any doubts that LTT were allies, but it being confirmed through one of their nicest staff makes me happy
I used a finger track ball mouse for years. They were miles ahead of other mice at the time. You can use high DPI, controlled with your fingertips. WAY quicker and more precise then pre high end laser sensor mice.