Loving the Albion notes, but it's clearly missing ENO. Your representation of Nodes and antinodes is sadly completely incorrect; a node is a point where there is no movement and the antinode is where there is maximum movement. To make this more annoying we have to deal with pressure variations rather than air displacement (i.e. the derivative) and as we know from school maths, the derivative of a sine is a cosine, so the antinode happens on the zero crossing of your wave representing the air displacement drawn and the nodes at the min/max stationary points.
After a bit of confused googling I think your explanation is right but you you meant to conclude that the *node* happens at the zero crossing, and the antinodes are the min/max - as written your final clause agrees with Christian's drawing! Thanks to all, fascinating stuff :)
@@kilgoretroutist You're both saying the same thing in different ways, the point where the waveform crosses the axis is a static point, throughout the wave's cycle it remains stationary! The node is the opposite of this, it moves the most!
@@kilgoretroutist In Christian's representation of the full transverse wave it makes only sense to think of air displacement, rather than the pressure variation which is the actual longitudinal wave that excites our ear drums, therefore my very unhelpful and confusing conclusion. Representing longitudinal waves in transverse form always calls for problems and me being pedantic in interpreting this doesn't make it easier. As an aside, let us all look at videos of Ruben's Tubes and enjoy the pressure differential causing a visual transverse representation.
Wow excellent episode Christian. Hats off to Ben, he knows his shit for sure. As someone who has consumend almost every piece of information around studio building in the past 7 years, he is 100% spot on. I have a very similar space to your shed in my home, and I spent best part of $10k on isolating it from the rest of the house, and another $5k on acoustic treatment to give me something close to being able to play in this new "cottage industry" of media creation working from home. Here's something I learned, and Ben touched upon it. (In all Caps for maximum effect) THERE IS A POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS.... LEARN IT. i.e dont be put off with utilizing whatever space you have to the best of your ability, and stop worrying about the small stuff. It was important to me to have maximum isolation but there is a valid argument to be had about just choosing to record at non peak times, or kick the family out for a few hours, vs pouring tens of thousands into isolation mitigation options.A good room sound can be achieved by following Ben's few suggestions. 1. Room balannce/Synergy 2. Treating first reflection points 3. Absorption is your friend, but not too much. Fascinating stuff. I half thought after touring Paul's new studio you'd knock the shed down and rebuild, but glad you are dealing with things as-is. makes for a wonderful and RELATABLE video. 10/10
I thought this was genuinely very interesting. I have always viewed mixing as an extension of the composition itself, and I really enjoy that process. To get some professional pointers on how to possibly improve your acoustics was very much appreciated. The guys at Yellow Technology seem to be really nice people too
Fantastic video, currently studying a masters of architectural acoustics and couldn't recommend this enough for composers/producers wanting to learn about room acoustics
Looks like you’ve made a fairly dramatic change to your computer setup. Looking forward to a future video explaining those changes as well. Thanks for this blog.
Really interesting to understand the issues and potential fixes. I am sure I have introduced problems in my work layout, which I should consider addressing. And it was a REAL surprise (a very pleasant one) to see Ben pop up on the screen. I have heard him many times on stage, as he's an amazing musician. I only hope he hasn't abandoned the performing and recording for the "techie stuff" and can be seen again in future festivals and clubs when venues finally reopen. Meanwhile I must re-listen to the albums ....
very interesting video, ive recently spent £2k on gik acoustic treatment for my 4m x 3m room and its now a joy to listen to music without echos and bass build up
This couldn't be a better timed video! Just closed on our first home and I am finally able to start making my own studio space as opposed to the hodge podged apartment mess of a studio that I've been working with for years. Tons of amazing advice in here that will definitely make a big difference as I think about how to lay out the space. Thanks a ton guys!
Just subscribed to find this article to remind myself of what I need to do when completing my studio - love your banner featuring the good old Nagra 4s Christian - reminds me of my past life inTV sound! (I have a 4.2 in the cupboard waiting to have pride of place on my studio display shelf when it's built!) Very informative video - in fact great videos all the time from yourself, Paul and Spitfire - thanks a lot for your insights. I'm almost penniless again thanks to you guys and Guy M.!!!
currently studying a masters degree in audio production and one of my modules is studio design and it is such a huge task! really great to see you showing the in depths of it.
What's been interesting for me working from a home studio/bedroom since I started in 2011, has been trying to find mix techniques that just work regardless if you hear everything as sonically accurate as possible or not. Multiband Sidechaining has turned out to be one of those (Fabfilter MB is awesome) for example on sub bass & kick. Through things like that I can be producing on speakers that barely have any bass and still get an ok clean sound, which is very liberating. Pairing that with a pair of DT 770 and referencing with other music, I can get a result I'm pleased with even though my room isn't the best treated
I agree, there have been some really interesting and useful inventions in terms of software that helps us to mix on headphones when necessary. I too bought the DT 770s on recommendation from a more experienced producer. However, recently I saw the frequency response curve for them and I realised that I’ve been putting out music that is a bit “dull” because of the extremely beefed up high mids. Got Sonarworks’ latest app/VST to even things out and feel a bit more confident now.
Helpful Christian, and of course you help us on our Journey... (the Film scoring Journey) - well before I congratulate - let me ask the dumb questions, I have initially a single room with one type of desk and one for where I do the mastering - Now I decided - to shift the production from the Mastering - this to be more successful in my creative mind, so I put in 75mm Corner Absorbers (25x65 Inch) positioned behind my speakers - speakers positioned some 30 inches apart (unable to be in center of the space - more like 15 inch from wall) - Here once produced in that space I move some 1.5M to the right where I have my Mastering Desk - this space has 2 sets of speakers and all the outboard gear same thing 75mm Aborbers and opposite this wall I have some 2 inch panels to cover the the wall opposite (not sure if this will require further absorbers facing opposite wall) - my listening position is always in triangle between listening position and speaker position - BUT here I actually have 42 Inch position between speakers and my listening position. I have NOT YET covered the ceiling (Im planing to do this later) is this a dealbreaker ?
A delicious look at your full space Christian, as perfect as it always seemed to me, I'm sure we all appreciate your digging to reveal its flaws and how to continually optimize. Fantastic perspective and eye-opening content as usual. You could give most documentary director/composers a run for their money.
I only put up proper acoustic treatments after 2 years in my home studio and regretted immediately not having done it sooner the moment I heard the difference. It is true. There is a happy feeling listening in there now vs before where things felt a little messy and off. I had crappy thin foam and speaker correction software before. But nothing compares to the acoustic panels.
It's like you stalked me for this video to make it just for me. I just moved to a house that I chose specifically for the detached studio space. The room sounds HORRENDOUS at the moment but I'm working on it... Great stuff here. Thanks!
Great topic and even better when it comes with a case study. I've seen quite many videos with people doing the treatment themselves and one of the biggest mistakes is , I suppose, just smacking up some treatment without knowing what issues the room actually might have. I recently watched a conversation where the acoustic expert explained that about 25% of treatment material on the wall is about what you need until the room gets too “dead.” I'm very happy with my Genelec dsp room correction, giving me inaudible lag and it helps a lot with dealing with the lowest frequencies and low mids. But I'm way behind with the room treatment which should not be forgotten. Although for home studios I think you can do really good with the dsp room correction as a start.
My first effort of a space sounds like the description given of a rubbishy dead sound that achieved 'honk' more than anything. My second venture had more treatment and less absorption, due to the whole room in a room idea. The 'shed' I have is my favourite space, I find very encouraging. It now records instruments and vocals quite well. I send stuff off to be mastered cos I know I cannot hear things the way real engineers do. When I win the lottery I'll hire these guys to deck me out properly :0
Christian, this was a really interesting session. We really underestimate the importance of our lugs. Food for thought. PS - Slightly off topic, but that's a rather posh garden shed made from decent timber. If you treat it with Linseed oil from time to time it will last forever. The natural ways are the best ways.
Thanks for this Christian, though I'm totally paranoid about my room sound now 😄 When I moved my studio I found the best listening position was in the centre of the room as it happens, it sounds pretty good and now I know why. I also made some DIY acoustic absorption to stand on my window board to stop cancellation from the glass behind my speakers. I've got room to do the same on the ceiling to I may have to try that too
A question that would perhaps be silly to reply to, but I've been wondering: How do you protect your shed against burglars? With the amount of treasure in there, it should at least be surrounded by a moat containing hungry British alligators (which, I assume, are corgis).
I seem to remember the absorbers with the holes in them are called Helmholtz absorbers and can be designed/tuned to tame specific frequency ranges. Rt60 times are another area of research and I was always told an acoustic room that’s dead might be good for speech/narration but for music it’s not and you should aim for a flat frequency response and an RT60 time similar to a typical lounge at home, though I think listening habits have changed somewhat since then. Another point of research (more so if your building from scratch) is room “golden ratios” , there are some more favourable room dimension relations ships of width and length etc.
Thanks so much for this video. Super informative; I'm in the middle of a shed conversion here in LA. I also was coincidentally lucky enough to discover the Trinnov recently. I was also super cynical; after one listening I thought : "There's no way this is going back, unless I'm dead." Anyway, really loved this video in particular. Thanks again.
Another favourite nerdy video. Thank you. Thoroughly enjoyed it :) An hats off to Ben and to all of those magicians who ever even thought to make something like Trinnov etc. Impressive!
No subwoofer req'd? I guess because your room is long enough to throw the waveform to hear lows (and now youo've tamed the buildup). Nice! My space is small, but high angled ceilings help... and I've treated a bit (ceiling & sides, only at listening poition)... and have loads of books and "things" surrounding me, which naturally diffuses and/or absorbs, I guess? Doesn't monitoring very quietly help remove the room somewhat? Pull it a bit out of the equation? Perhaps stoopidly, but partly due to my layout, I have the equilateral triangle happening, of course, but my speakers are very close to me... which also removes some of the room, but makes stereo imaging details (panning positions) a bit tricky. Anyways, that @yellowtechnology fellar is bladdy brill!! Arigatou!
23:00 just an FYI, I'm doing a Masters in Acoustics on an accredited course by the Institute of Acoustics. So know a thing or two on this. No bedroom DIY knowledge here :). It is of course half of the wavelength of which is the primary mode (first mode) that can be present in a space. This is because by definition, the first mode is when half the wavelength is equal to a single dimension of a space. This is too say that the 'first mode' shown here of which is the typical sinusoidal type sound wave, is actually representative of the second order mode.
Loved this video. i'm in a dilemma at the moment where i have a garden 'studio' which isn't treated at all and a treated studio at the Tileyard (around the corner from Christian). I've hardly been to the London studio in the past year so might spend the money to make my garden shed acoustically treated. such great insights in this video. thanks Christian.
Sono built my “shed” in 2017.Acoustician designed it. Clipso Acoustic fabric “hides” the diffusers, absorbers and bass traps etc. They told me in advance that the room would have a 1dB hump at 70hz. Fixed it with GIK bass traps in the corners. But it’s an incredible room for mixing (both stereo and surround). So - yes - a shed can sound great if you start out thinking about how to make it sound great! 😊
Massively informative again! If I may ask - and I'm really dying to learn! - what operating system (I take it macOS as I see an iMac sitting on that desk)? Care to do an episode about that, i.e. your current "gear box" and vital things to consider? If so, I think I wouldn't be the only one interested, me thinks...? Thank you, always a pleasure seeing and hearing you present the essentials of this business in such an informative whilst also well entertaining way! Kudos!
I kinda consider myself lucky that although I don't have any proper acoustic treatment in my room, I have so much stuff in it (including a big bed and curtains, and a closet and what not) that at the end of the day it doesn't sound that bad at all! It's of course not ideal, but believe me it could be way worse. The drawback being that I don't have a lot of space which prevents me from even fitting my keyboard into my setup... But yeah, just put stuff in the room, carpets, curtains on the windows, furniture... they make a huge difference!
Really enjoyed this Christian! Curious to know the dimensions of your shed?? I’m in a room in my house now but am planning a shed at some stage in the coming years!
What about choice of the speakers? I really wonder how would measurements turn out if he had Focal Twin Shape in the room, those active radiators on sides of focal interact with reflections of the room....crazy stuff....not to mention Kii monitors....thoughts?
This whole video describes very well why most studio engineers think subwoofers are evil: you NEED to do basically all the work that has been done in the video to properly integrate subwoofers into your system or they will sound horrific, because the room will completely destroy the initially flat response. Just a small example: in my studio, a subwoofer with a flat anechoic frequency response will measure 20db (yup 20 decibles) louder at 30Hz than at 50Hz, because 30Hz is a room resonance, which amplifies that frequency just so much. Another very interesting approach is the so called Double Bass Array, where you set up subwoofers on your frontwalls, symmetrically to subwoofers on your back wall (just talking about subwoofers here, as room modes mostly affect bass unless it's a really really tiny room), delaying the audio signal sent to the subwoofers at your back wall (by the distance between front and rear wall) and reversing their phase. This will effectively cancel out the sound coming from the front subwoofers, once it reaches the rear wall, leaving you (almost) solely with direct sound at your listening location, greatly cleaning up room modes and ringing. Surprisingly, the home theatre crowd is much more involved in the whole topic of room correction and bass as the studio crowd or Hifi enthusiasts. There are a lot of great forum topics about this on forums like AVSforums, AudioScienceReview or data-bass (I'm moderately active on the three mentioned). I personally find it literally impossible to mix bass in an uncalibrated room, so my advice is, if you don't have the time/money to get this done is to use headphones for that. If some of you might find the "Trinnov" device a bit abstract and think it's a magical black box, just think of it as a similar device to modern AVRs, which also come with room correction softwares like Audyssey, DIRAC or YAPO. In fact, Trinnov also makes AVRs, which come, probably like the device in this video, with a 5 digit price tag. Thanks for the educational video, as always, Christian, and heads off to Ben, he is for sure the man you need if you want to take your studio's sound to the next level! I love your Vlogs, be they educational or just for entertainment, they're always interesting!
I've researched low-end options for EQing out the room. The cheapest option by far (200$) is ECM8000 mic + DSP8024. Level higher is DEQ2496. Any opinion on these low end pieces and on EQing the output overall?
The best thing about Ben is just how reasonable and practical all his points are: "it'd be great to have more over your head, but then you wouldn't be able to walk... " My studio is built in a weird attic space, and I literally cannot walk standing up in it. I have received all sorts of abuse from internet "experts" about why it's wrong - and they're mostly right. But if it's a choice between having a bad room and not having one at all, we'll that's an easy decision. Then it's just do the best you can with what you've got.
For anyone who can't afford the Trinnov, which is as near as makes no difference a $5000 piece of kit, I'd highly recommend the Sonorworks Reference which is maybe $350. Especially in small rooms, it'll get you a large portion of the way there to that of the Trinnov.
Some very good tips for places like bedrooms. Mine is the smallest spare bedroom and it's a horrible space but it's my only space so at least i know how i can make it sound better now. On an off topic question, i noticed you have a Icon Platform M+ on your desk and i have seen Guy Michelmore with one too. Would you say it's worth getting one concidering the cc controler i use now only has 45mm sliders?
Keith if you're talking about the NanoKontol (I have one) I'm looking at the Novation Launch Control XL Mk2 as I like the idea of the pads at the bottom for key switches and the top knobs for soft synth control. Anyone using the Launch? Good/Bad?
@@Sesaon3 No not the nano, the one i'm thinking of getting is the Icon Platform M+ as it has motorised faders and they look like they are 100mm. The Novation XL mk2 are only 60mm faders
@@Sesaon3 At the moment i'm using the Nektar Panorama P1 which i like appart from the faders are too short. That's why i want 100mm for smoother control
What about planning permission/change of use Christian? Also, what’s involved in applying for permission for business use as many house deeds don’t allow it? I’ve got a detached double garage which, as is the case with many people, not used to keep cars in! I know it’s more cost effective to convert this than building an extension but it appears to be a nightmare in terms of legalities.
Interesting stuff, I hope to at some point own a room that I can soundtreat. Sadly they housing market in Dutchland is complelty f*ed at the moment :( That Trinnov unit alone is more expensive than the Shed itself isn't it 😅?
Omg this is a total rabbit hole. I’ve got a bonkers shaped room with windows synths chairs cups and all sorts. Don’t think I could get my head around all this. Then throw in speaker isolation and I’m 53 carnt hear over 9 kHz and I’ve got tinnitus - every one who hears my music says it sounds great. - but I keep thinking am I missing something
Even if I lived in Norway I'd still very much rely on my air-con!!! These sheds are almost hermetically sealed so there is no way of the heat escaping.
Hey Anthony! As we touch on here, it's about compromise for sure... You probably don't want to be kitting out the room up for Led Zep drum acoustics if you're hoping for any accurate mixing on speakers to happen in the same space! However, some of the things that Christian and I chatted about that you can do to improve mixing spaces which won't typically be negative from a recording point of view: Positioning the speakers symmetrically in the room left-to-right; putting speakers on good solid stands; looking to treat parallel surfaces (particularly around the listening position) with either absorption or diffusion (at its most basic could be some well populated shelves!). If your one-room is large enough then you COULD look at some levels of variable acoustic treatment... panels with hard surfaces for reflections/diffusions on one side, and absorption on the other that can be flipped depending on what you're doing. Hope this helps!
That is because tracking is all about the various ingredients that you want to put in the recordings and how you want the environment to feel for those who are tracking. Mixing is about being able to hear properly, tracking is about capturing a performance in a space. It took Abbey Road about fifty years of acoustic correction to get from the anecdotally horrid sound of their studio ONE to what it is today which is arguably one of the most revered recording spaces in the world. They basically just tried stuff until it clicked. When recording stuff like drums it is always worth going with a house engineer who has worked for some years in that studio because they will know the sweet spot. Mixing is a more definable set of principals whereas tracking are an almost infinite amount of choices from “well what do you want to record, how do you want to record it, what type of sound are you looking for a d what are the recordings for?” Already give you a totally nuanced set of solutions that are wholly based on the space you’re working with.
It helps because you can place them closer to the wall. SBIR is tricky. Best is to have speakers built into the wall. Second best (but mostly not achievable) is to have them far from walls (and, that's far, like, 2+ meters). Third best is probably to have them right up against the wall. In that position you get bass buildup, but no quarter wavelength cancellations (since they happen at frequencies where the speakers are directive in that case) and the bass buildup is treatable with filters/eq, which comb filter cancellations in the bass due to SBIR isn't.
I built my own acoustic treatment, 8 panels and 4 bass traps with rockwool, total cost 350 €, I have it on my website if anyone's interested :) And of course room modes are the bane of every home studio owner, that's where the membrane traps come in like Ben explains, but those are trickier to make.
There is disturbingly little reverb in the room for your voice, making it sound like you underneath a thick woolen plaid - but that can be fixed by adding a little reverb with a plugin....
I have the same make 'shed' and yes, it sounded like St Pauls when first plastered. First thing I bought for it was a GIK room pack - 4 corner bass traps, wall mounted bass trap & several wall panels. Spectacular difference. Works a treat for my Dynaudio LYD 48s' and S9 sub.
Really interesting film. Personally I’m not really ready to buy that music production is becoming democratised though. If anything, I think in many ways the opposite is happening. In the past, fewer people had the opportunity to share their music and find an audience, but for those with real talent it didn’t matter what sort of background they were from, or how much money they have - they would be found and be able to record their music in decent studios. With the emphasis now moving towards the ability to produce professional quality music at home, in conjunction with a declining studio scene (not to mention the whole of the rest of the machinery to discover talent) it is now the resources available to individuals that is becoming much more important, especially if the general public expectations about production quality remain where they are. Working class kids (but probably a lot of middle class too) simply aren’t going to have the resources to be able to do that - even in relation to acoustic treatment, let alone with computers, software, instruments, microphones, interfaces etc etc. Mainstream music has become much more ‘posh’ over the last 20 years or so anyway (the number of household name bands who have all been to private schools is quite surprising) and I worry that the way things are going that could become even more extreme, outside of some specific genres. It could be that (and wouldn’t surprise me) I’ve completely misunderstood what the meaning of ‘democratisation’ of music means, and I probably haven’t articulated this very well, but it’s been bubbling away in my head for a few weeks.
Loving the Albion notes, but it's clearly missing ENO.
Your representation of Nodes and antinodes is sadly completely incorrect; a node is a point where there is no movement and the antinode is where there is maximum movement. To make this more annoying we have to deal with pressure variations rather than air displacement (i.e. the derivative) and as we know from school maths, the derivative of a sine is a cosine, so the antinode happens on the zero crossing of your wave representing the air displacement drawn and the nodes at the min/max stationary points.
Re: ENO... about you checked out Albion NEO? There's some interesting textures in there...
In Christians defense, he did start his explanation with "I'm definitely going to get this wrong, because it's not my area of expertise..." ;)
After a bit of confused googling I think your explanation is right but you you meant to conclude that the *node* happens at the zero crossing, and the antinodes are the min/max - as written your final clause agrees with Christian's drawing! Thanks to all, fascinating stuff :)
@@kilgoretroutist You're both saying the same thing in different ways, the point where the waveform crosses the axis is a static point, throughout the wave's cycle it remains stationary! The node is the opposite of this, it moves the most!
@@kilgoretroutist In Christian's representation of the full transverse wave it makes only sense to think of air displacement, rather than the pressure variation which is the actual longitudinal wave that excites our ear drums, therefore my very unhelpful and confusing conclusion.
Representing longitudinal waves in transverse form always calls for problems and me being pedantic in interpreting this doesn't make it easier.
As an aside, let us all look at videos of Ruben's Tubes and enjoy the pressure differential causing a visual transverse representation.
Christian,
Another great video.
Thank you
indeed!
Wow excellent episode Christian. Hats off to Ben, he knows his shit for sure. As someone who has consumend almost every piece of information around studio building in the past 7 years, he is 100% spot on. I have a very similar space to your shed in my home, and I spent best part of $10k on isolating it from the rest of the house, and another $5k on acoustic treatment to give me something close to being able to play in this new "cottage industry" of media creation working from home. Here's something I learned, and Ben touched upon it. (In all Caps for maximum effect) THERE IS A POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS.... LEARN IT. i.e dont be put off with utilizing whatever space you have to the best of your ability, and stop worrying about the small stuff. It was important to me to have maximum isolation but there is a valid argument to be had about just choosing to record at non peak times, or kick the family out for a few hours, vs pouring tens of thousands into isolation mitigation options.A good room sound can be achieved by following Ben's few suggestions. 1. Room balannce/Synergy 2. Treating first reflection points 3. Absorption is your friend, but not too much. Fascinating stuff. I half thought after touring Paul's new studio you'd knock the shed down and rebuild, but glad you are dealing with things as-is. makes for a wonderful and RELATABLE video. 10/10
I thought this was genuinely very interesting. I have always viewed mixing as an extension of the composition itself, and I really enjoy that process. To get some professional pointers on how to possibly improve your acoustics was very much appreciated. The guys at Yellow Technology seem to be really nice people too
Fantastic video, currently studying a masters of architectural acoustics and couldn't recommend this enough for composers/producers wanting to learn about room acoustics
Being and OLD musician and in past recording engineer interesting hearing how they are tuning rooms now. Thanks for making this video.
Excellent, Ben explains the how and why in clear language, thanks
Looks like you’ve made a fairly dramatic change to your computer setup. Looking forward to a future video explaining those changes as well. Thanks for this blog.
Really interesting to understand the issues and potential fixes. I am sure I have introduced problems in my work layout, which I should consider addressing.
And it was a REAL surprise (a very pleasant one) to see Ben pop up on the screen. I have heard him many times on stage, as he's an amazing musician. I only hope he hasn't abandoned the performing and recording for the "techie stuff" and can be seen again in future festivals and clubs when venues finally reopen. Meanwhile I must re-listen to the albums ....
D'uh! I ought to have Googled it first. There's a London gig in June!
very interesting video, ive recently spent £2k on gik acoustic treatment for my 4m x 3m room and its now a joy to listen to music without echos and bass build up
Roughly the size of the space I'm setting up atm, but I will be using ikea bookcases and rockwool, and do it for a fraction of the price
This couldn't be a better timed video! Just closed on our first home and I am finally able to start making my own studio space as opposed to the hodge podged apartment mess of a studio that I've been working with for years. Tons of amazing advice in here that will definitely make a big difference as I think about how to lay out the space. Thanks a ton guys!
Just subscribed to find this article to remind myself of what I need to do when completing my studio - love your banner featuring the good old Nagra 4s Christian - reminds me of my past life inTV sound! (I have a 4.2 in the cupboard waiting to have pride of place on my studio display shelf when it's built!) Very informative video - in fact great videos all the time from yourself, Paul and Spitfire - thanks a lot for your insights. I'm almost penniless again thanks to you guys and Guy M.!!!
currently studying a masters degree in audio production and one of my modules is studio design and it is such a huge task! really great to see you showing the in depths of it.
Great stuff Christian! I am happy to see others discussing the importance of acoustic treatment and room acoustic software.
What's been interesting for me working from a home studio/bedroom since I started in 2011, has been trying to find mix techniques that just work regardless if you hear everything as sonically accurate as possible or not. Multiband Sidechaining has turned out to be one of those (Fabfilter MB is awesome) for example on sub bass & kick. Through things like that I can be producing on speakers that barely have any bass and still get an ok clean sound, which is very liberating. Pairing that with a pair of DT 770 and referencing with other music, I can get a result I'm pleased with even though my room isn't the best treated
I agree, there have been some really interesting and useful inventions in terms of software that helps us to mix on headphones when necessary. I too bought the DT 770s on recommendation from a more experienced producer. However, recently I saw the frequency response curve for them and I realised that I’ve been putting out music that is a bit “dull” because of the extremely beefed up high mids. Got Sonarworks’ latest app/VST to even things out and feel a bit more confident now.
The production quality on these videos is always top notch. Really interesting discussion!
Helpful Christian, and of course you help us on our Journey... (the Film scoring Journey) - well before I congratulate - let me ask the dumb questions, I have initially a single room with one type of desk and one for where I do the mastering - Now I decided - to shift the production from the Mastering - this to be more successful in my creative mind, so I put in 75mm Corner Absorbers (25x65 Inch) positioned behind my speakers - speakers positioned some 30 inches apart (unable to be in center of the space - more like 15 inch from wall) - Here once produced in that space I move some 1.5M to the right where I have my Mastering Desk - this space has 2 sets of speakers and all the outboard gear same thing 75mm Aborbers and opposite this wall I have some 2 inch panels to cover the the wall opposite (not sure if this will require further absorbers facing opposite wall) - my listening position is always in triangle between listening position and speaker position - BUT here I actually have 42 Inch position between speakers and my listening position. I have NOT YET covered the ceiling (Im planing to do this later) is this a dealbreaker ?
Thanks Christian ! This is pure gold
Interesting point on the dead air studios-makes a ton of sense. Thanks for the vid!
A delicious look at your full space Christian, as perfect as it always seemed to me, I'm sure we all appreciate your digging to reveal its flaws and how to continually optimize. Fantastic perspective and eye-opening content as usual. You could give most documentary director/composers a run for their money.
I built my panels out of woodwool but made them really thick
I primarililly use them ad bass traps because I had bass booms in the corner
Love this!
This was helpful. Thanks guys
Thanks that was really useful, I am just about to work out where I need to add acoustic treatment and plan to make my own panels.
Really great advice!! Now to figure out how to apply it to my uni bedroom.
Great video. I was wondering where you bought your studio desk? I love how the keyboard is right in front of you.
Great video as always!! Does anybody know what screen Christian is rocking?
I only put up proper acoustic treatments after 2 years in my home studio and regretted immediately not having done it sooner the moment I heard the difference. It is true. There is a happy feeling listening in there now vs before where things felt a little messy and off. I had crappy thin foam and speaker correction software before. But nothing compares to the acoustic panels.
It's like you stalked me for this video to make it just for me. I just moved to a house that I chose specifically for the detached studio space. The room sounds HORRENDOUS at the moment but I'm working on it... Great stuff here. Thanks!
timely and well done ty both!
I've just started treating my bedroom today! Timely.
Nice Billy! How is it going?
Great topic and even better when it comes with a case study.
I've seen quite many videos with people doing the treatment themselves and one of the biggest mistakes is , I suppose, just smacking up some treatment without knowing what issues the room actually might have.
I recently watched a conversation where the acoustic expert explained that about 25% of treatment material on the wall is about what you need until the room gets too “dead.”
I'm very happy with my Genelec dsp room correction, giving me inaudible lag and it helps a lot with dealing with the lowest frequencies and low mids. But I'm way behind with the room treatment which should not be forgotten. Although for home studios I think you can do really good with the dsp room correction as a start.
I agree what I learned is it’s quite easy to deal with certain frequencies but this then leaves you with a massively unbalanced room.
@@TheCrowHillCo I hope you'll enjoy the “new” room.
Also looking forward to hearing Allison's upcoming songs.
My first effort of a space sounds like the description given of a rubbishy dead sound that achieved 'honk' more than anything. My second venture had more treatment and less absorption, due to the whole room in a room idea. The 'shed' I have is my favourite space, I find very encouraging. It now records instruments and vocals quite well. I send stuff off to be mastered cos I know I cannot hear things the way real engineers do. When I win the lottery I'll hire these guys to deck me out properly :0
Christian, have you also been considering a @Dolby Atmos set-up?
Christian, this was a really interesting session. We really underestimate the importance of our lugs. Food for thought. PS - Slightly off topic, but that's a rather posh garden shed made from decent timber. If you treat it with Linseed oil from time to time it will last forever. The natural ways are the best ways.
My Golden Shred sounds just fine, thanks.
Thanks for this Christian, though I'm totally paranoid about my room sound now 😄 When I moved my studio I found the best listening position was in the centre of the room as it happens, it sounds pretty good and now I know why. I also made some DIY acoustic absorption to stand on my window board to stop cancellation from the glass behind my speakers. I've got room to do the same on the ceiling to I may have to try that too
Fantastic, fascinating video. Great stuff, thank you.
A question that would perhaps be silly to reply to, but I've been wondering: How do you protect your shed against burglars? With the amount of treasure in there, it should at least be surrounded by a moat containing hungry British alligators (which, I assume, are corgis).
two insanely friendly Cocker Spaniels
@@pianobook Noted. Adding a flavored squeaky toy to my heist squad.
@@pedterson Two! Complete Johnny English style.
I seem to remember the absorbers with the holes in them are called Helmholtz absorbers and can be designed/tuned to tame specific frequency ranges. Rt60 times are another area of research and I was always told an acoustic room that’s dead might be good for speech/narration but for music it’s not and you should aim for a flat frequency response and an RT60 time similar to a typical lounge at home, though I think listening habits have changed somewhat since then. Another point of research (more so if your building from scratch) is room “golden ratios” , there are some more favourable room dimension relations ships of width and length etc.
Thanks so much for this video. Super informative; I'm in the middle of a shed conversion here in LA. I also was coincidentally lucky enough to discover the Trinnov recently. I was also super cynical; after one listening I thought : "There's no way this is going back, unless I'm dead." Anyway, really loved this video in particular. Thanks again.
Who in the world dislikes a video like this?! This is just a bunch of advice regarding acoustics, what's not to like?!
Very interesting and helpful indeed.
Another favourite nerdy video. Thank you. Thoroughly enjoyed it :) An hats off to Ben and to all of those magicians who ever even thought to make something like Trinnov etc. Impressive!
Quite a "Garden Shed," lol. But pumped to soak up the points you share... Onward!
No subwoofer req'd? I guess because your room is long enough to throw the waveform to hear lows (and now youo've tamed the buildup). Nice! My space is small, but high angled ceilings help... and I've treated a bit (ceiling & sides, only at listening poition)... and have loads of books and "things" surrounding me, which naturally diffuses and/or absorbs, I guess? Doesn't monitoring very quietly help remove the room somewhat? Pull it a bit out of the equation? Perhaps stoopidly, but partly due to my layout, I have the equilateral triangle happening, of course, but my speakers are very close to me... which also removes some of the room, but makes stereo imaging details (panning positions) a bit tricky. Anyways, that @yellowtechnology fellar is bladdy brill!! Arigatou!
Brilliant and very useful! Thanks for constantly spreading the knowledge! xxxxx
Fascinating stuff this. Thanks very much. Cheers!
23:00 just an FYI, I'm doing a Masters in Acoustics on an accredited course by the Institute of Acoustics. So know a thing or two on this. No bedroom DIY knowledge here :). It is of course half of the wavelength of which is the primary mode (first mode) that can be present in a space. This is because by definition, the first mode is when half the wavelength is equal to a single dimension of a space. This is too say that the 'first mode' shown here of which is the typical sinusoidal type sound wave, is actually representative of the second order mode.
Loved this video. i'm in a dilemma at the moment where i have a garden 'studio' which isn't treated at all and a treated studio at the Tileyard (around the corner from Christian). I've hardly been to the London studio in the past year so might spend the money to make my garden shed acoustically treated. such great insights in this video. thanks Christian.
24:53 Izotope RX De-reverb can be magic, but yess, impossible to remove totally without modifying the original sound, if it's loud...
Great video, always informative and engaging.
How do you provide stems in stereo vs 5.1? also, with the uptick in atmos what are your thoughts? & what would deliverables look like?
Sono built my “shed” in 2017.Acoustician designed it. Clipso Acoustic fabric “hides” the diffusers, absorbers and bass traps etc. They told me in advance that the room would have a 1dB hump at 70hz. Fixed it with GIK bass traps in the corners. But it’s an incredible room for mixing (both stereo and surround).
So - yes - a shed can sound great if you start out thinking about how to make it sound great! 😊
1 1dB hump is almost nothing. Can you tell me the inside dimensions of the shed?
Very very informative! Thanks for documenting your shed acoustic improvement.
Massively informative again! If I may ask - and I'm really dying to learn! - what operating system (I take it macOS as I see an iMac sitting on that desk)? Care to do an episode about that, i.e. your current "gear box" and vital things to consider? If so, I think I wouldn't be the only one interested, me thinks...? Thank you, always a pleasure seeing and hearing you present the essentials of this business in such an informative whilst also well entertaining way! Kudos!
24:15 Christian watching a Bill Burr video. Good man.
Very timely! Thank you so much! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great vid thanks! And Bill Burr on Rogan. Solid.
Eon ...?? Hmmm. Eon Productions ...? John Barry styled library? I can dream.
Great informative vlog. Enjoyed that!
It’s like this video was made exactly for me. My garden shed has been done up and turned into a studio and sounds pretty crap right now 😂
0:03 Hmm. No mention of the acoustical properties of boxwood hedgerows.
I'm about to have a 'shed' built in my garden, so I found this video absolute gold dust. Christian can I ask what flooring you went for?
Wood with a rug.
Ooh, finally, we get to visit the room we see from different angles in Christians' Videos! Loving it!
I kinda consider myself lucky that although I don't have any proper acoustic treatment in my room, I have so much stuff in it (including a big bed and curtains, and a closet and what not) that at the end of the day it doesn't sound that bad at all! It's of course not ideal, but believe me it could be way worse. The drawback being that I don't have a lot of space which prevents me from even fitting my keyboard into my setup...
But yeah, just put stuff in the room, carpets, curtains on the windows, furniture... they make a huge difference!
Really enjoyed this Christian! Curious to know the dimensions of your shed?? I’m in a room in my house now but am planning a shed at some stage in the coming years!
your "shed" is damn close to as big as my apartment, and with greater window space (although you always seem to have the curtains drawn... :P )
No "after" measurements?
What about choice of the speakers? I really wonder how would measurements turn out if he had Focal Twin Shape in the room, those active radiators on sides of focal interact with reflections of the room....crazy stuff....not to mention Kii monitors....thoughts?
So can you now put on a test oscillator in Logic, slowly sweep thru 400-80hz and have no nulls?
This whole video describes very well why most studio engineers think subwoofers are evil: you NEED to do basically all the work that has been done in the video to properly integrate subwoofers into your system or they will sound horrific, because the room will completely destroy the initially flat response.
Just a small example: in my studio, a subwoofer with a flat anechoic frequency response will measure 20db (yup 20 decibles) louder at 30Hz than at 50Hz, because 30Hz is a room resonance, which amplifies that frequency just so much.
Another very interesting approach is the so called Double Bass Array, where you set up subwoofers on your frontwalls, symmetrically to subwoofers on your back wall (just talking about subwoofers here, as room modes mostly affect bass unless it's a really really tiny room), delaying the audio signal sent to the subwoofers at your back wall (by the distance between front and rear wall) and reversing their phase.
This will effectively cancel out the sound coming from the front subwoofers, once it reaches the rear wall, leaving you (almost) solely with direct sound at your listening location, greatly cleaning up room modes and ringing.
Surprisingly, the home theatre crowd is much more involved in the whole topic of room correction and bass as the studio crowd or Hifi enthusiasts. There are a lot of great forum topics about this on forums like AVSforums, AudioScienceReview or data-bass (I'm moderately active on the three mentioned).
I personally find it literally impossible to mix bass in an uncalibrated room, so my advice is, if you don't have the time/money to get this done is to use headphones for that.
If some of you might find the "Trinnov" device a bit abstract and think it's a magical black box, just think of it as a similar device to modern AVRs, which also come with room correction softwares like Audyssey, DIRAC or YAPO. In fact, Trinnov also makes AVRs, which come, probably like the device in this video, with a 5 digit price tag.
Thanks for the educational video, as always, Christian, and heads off to Ben, he is for sure the man you need if you want to take your studio's sound to the next level!
I love your Vlogs, be they educational or just for entertainment, they're always interesting!
A studio is like a mix: never finished ;)
I've researched low-end options for EQing out the room. The cheapest option by far (200$) is ECM8000 mic + DSP8024. Level higher is DEQ2496. Any opinion on these low end pieces and on EQing the output overall?
The best thing about Ben is just how reasonable and practical all his points are: "it'd be great to have more over your head, but then you wouldn't be able to walk... "
My studio is built in a weird attic space, and I literally cannot walk standing up in it. I have received all sorts of abuse from internet "experts" about why it's wrong - and they're mostly right. But if it's a choice between having a bad room and not having one at all, we'll that's an easy decision. Then it's just do the best you can with what you've got.
My dissertation is coming true!
For anyone who can't afford the Trinnov, which is as near as makes no difference a $5000 piece of kit, I'd highly recommend the Sonorworks Reference which is maybe $350.
Especially in small rooms, it'll get you a large portion of the way there to that of the Trinnov.
Some very good tips for places like bedrooms. Mine is the smallest spare bedroom and it's a horrible space but it's my only space so at least i know how i can make it sound better now.
On an off topic question, i noticed you have a Icon Platform M+ on your desk and i have seen Guy Michelmore with one too. Would you say it's worth getting one concidering the cc controler i use now only has 45mm sliders?
Keith if you're talking about the NanoKontol (I have one) I'm looking at the Novation Launch Control XL Mk2 as I like the idea of the pads at the bottom for key switches and the top knobs for soft synth control. Anyone using the Launch? Good/Bad?
@@Sesaon3 No not the nano, the one i'm thinking of getting is the Icon Platform M+ as it has motorised faders and they look like they are 100mm. The Novation XL mk2 are only 60mm faders
@@keiththeodosiou "the cc controler i use now only has 45mm sliders?" That's what I thought might be the nanokontrol :-)
@@Sesaon3 At the moment i'm using the Nektar Panorama P1 which i like appart from the faders are too short. That's why i want 100mm for smoother control
What about planning permission/change of use Christian? Also, what’s involved in applying for permission for business use as many house deeds don’t allow it? I’ve got a detached double garage which, as is the case with many people, not used to keep cars in! I know it’s more cost effective to convert this than building an extension but it appears to be a nightmare in terms of legalities.
Briliant stuff!
Interesting stuff, I hope to at some point own a room that I can soundtreat. Sadly they housing market in Dutchland is complelty f*ed at the moment :(
That Trinnov unit alone is more expensive than the Shed itself isn't it 😅?
Omg this is a total rabbit hole. I’ve got a bonkers shaped room with windows synths chairs cups and all sorts. Don’t think I could get my head around all this. Then throw in speaker isolation and I’m 53 carnt hear over 9 kHz and I’ve got tinnitus - every one who hears my music says it sounds great. - but I keep thinking am I missing something
Now you work in a beautiful oven, in summer it must be difficult lol... but the weather is less warm in your place than in mine....
Even if I lived in Norway I'd still very much rely on my air-con!!! These sheds are almost hermetically sealed so there is no way of the heat escaping.
You're back to the iMac! What happened to your Mac Pro?
Question for Ben - I track in the same room I mix in. How is treating a room for recording different from treating a room for mixing?
Hey Anthony! As we touch on here, it's about compromise for sure... You probably don't want to be kitting out the room up for Led Zep drum acoustics if you're hoping for any accurate mixing on speakers to happen in the same space! However, some of the things that Christian and I chatted about that you can do to improve mixing spaces which won't typically be negative from a recording point of view: Positioning the speakers symmetrically in the room left-to-right; putting speakers on good solid stands; looking to treat parallel surfaces (particularly around the listening position) with either absorption or diffusion (at its most basic could be some well populated shelves!). If your one-room is large enough then you COULD look at some levels of variable acoustic treatment... panels with hard surfaces for reflections/diffusions on one side, and absorption on the other that can be flipped depending on what you're doing. Hope this helps!
@@bensavage141 Yeah that does answer it a bit. Seems to be a lot of info on how to treat a room for mixing, but not so much for tracking rooms.
That is because tracking is all about the various ingredients that you want to put in the recordings and how you want the environment to feel for those who are tracking. Mixing is about being able to hear properly, tracking is about capturing a performance in a space. It took Abbey Road about fifty years of acoustic correction to get from the anecdotally horrid sound of their studio ONE to what it is today which is arguably one of the most revered recording spaces in the world. They basically just tried stuff until it clicked. When recording stuff like drums it is always worth going with a house engineer who has worked for some years in that studio because they will know the sweet spot. Mixing is a more definable set of principals whereas tracking are an almost infinite amount of choices from “well what do you want to record, how do you want to record it, what type of sound are you looking for a d what are the recordings for?” Already give you a totally nuanced set of solutions that are wholly based on the space you’re working with.
@@TheCrowHillCo Fair. I suppose trial and error is the best way to go.
'Garden Shed', which is bigger and worth more than my flat.
No way is conte the founder of patreon!! I remember his daft punk remix with robotics and stuff from some ten years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that having speakers that are front ported also helps when you're closer to a wall than you should
It helps because you can place them closer to the wall. SBIR is tricky. Best is to have speakers built into the wall. Second best (but mostly not achievable) is to have them far from walls (and, that's far, like, 2+ meters). Third best is probably to have them right up against the wall. In that position you get bass buildup, but no quarter wavelength cancellations (since they happen at frequencies where the speakers are directive in that case) and the bass buildup is treatable with filters/eq, which comb filter cancellations in the bass due to SBIR isn't.
@@therealrydan thanks for that super detailed answer! The space limitation was what made me choose front ported speakers
I built my own acoustic treatment, 8 panels and 4 bass traps with rockwool, total cost 350 €, I have it on my website if anyone's interested :) And of course room modes are the bane of every home studio owner, that's where the membrane traps come in like Ben explains, but those are trickier to make.
The sneaky Albion note made me laugh.
There is disturbingly little reverb in the room for your voice, making it sound like you underneath a thick woolen plaid - but that can be fixed by adding a little reverb with a plugin....
I have the same make 'shed' and yes, it sounded like St Pauls when first plastered. First thing I bought for it was a GIK room pack - 4 corner bass traps, wall mounted bass trap & several wall panels. Spectacular difference. Works a treat for my Dynaudio LYD 48s' and S9 sub.
I really thought after that intro we were going straight into the Grand Designs theme
Really interesting film. Personally I’m not really ready to buy that music production is becoming democratised though. If anything, I think in many ways the opposite is happening. In the past, fewer people had the opportunity to share their music and find an audience, but for those with real talent it didn’t matter what sort of background they were from, or how much money they have - they would be found and be able to record their music in decent studios. With the emphasis now moving towards the ability to produce professional quality music at home, in conjunction with a declining studio scene (not to mention the whole of the rest of the machinery to discover talent) it is now the resources available to individuals that is becoming much more important, especially if the general public expectations about production quality remain where they are. Working class kids (but probably a lot of middle class too) simply aren’t going to have the resources to be able to do that - even in relation to acoustic treatment, let alone with computers, software, instruments, microphones, interfaces etc etc. Mainstream music has become much more ‘posh’ over the last 20 years or so anyway (the number of household name bands who have all been to private schools is quite surprising) and I worry that the way things are going that could become even more extreme, outside of some specific genres. It could be that (and wouldn’t surprise me) I’ve completely misunderstood what the meaning of ‘democratisation’ of music means, and I probably haven’t articulated this very well, but it’s been bubbling away in my head for a few weeks.
Henson has more green than just his lawn .. Garden shed lol ;)
This gentleman resembles Gary Oldman working undercover as an acoustic technician.
'Node' was also a wonderful analogue synthesis group in the 90's...
The rivalry between Christian and Guy is obviously getting nasty. . . 😂
how so? Did I miss something?
Oh wait, I guess you are referring to Guy and his shed? :D
@@CalvinBacon Yes, Guy and his bloody shed on his bloody estate. What a life. 😂
@@LongshanMusic Haha, although I much prefer watching Christians videos, Guy is quite the lovely fella and definitely knows his stuff!
@@LongshanMusic Well Christian has quite a nice Mansion to go with the shed as well...
My studio is in my unfinished basement, eliminating hard flat surfaces is the main issue.
Your guest looks like Garry Oldman but sounds like Christian Bale. What a combination!
So does the shed also double off as a man cave? Or is that a separate chapter.. ;-)
Albion Eon Christian?