He didn't claim it was a coherent response. He's specifically saying that he believes the question to be so poor that it isn't worth honoring with a response.
@@theveganjoker7858 I agree. He's choosing to deliberately not answer the question. There comes a point where you receive so many troll questions from the same individual that there comes a point where it would be irrational to continue interacting with that individual. Arguing with someone who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
@@theveganjoker7858 Hopefully, you're not assuming that just because he's choosing to not interact with the question that it therefore can't be answered.
Oh dear god in heaven. When enlightened kept saying "i don't owe you an explanation" and laughing that uncomfortable forced laugh, I had to work so hard not to pull my hair out.
Jack views lying as just another tool to be used in debate to attempt to create the illusion of victory, he doesn't humiliate dishonest people. He avoids the truth with endless and deliberate fallacies
@@lightbeforethetunnel as Jack asked "has Darth ever given a valid argument for the existence of God"? As I assume you are an honest person you'd agree that's a simple & reasonable question.
Phillip seems terrified just in general for having a conversation in a room with other people. Whining that it's not a 1 on 1 is so weird. Why go to public rooms then?
No wonder these people can't think properly about their beliefs, they're too busy moralizing and high-grounding each other to actually engage with the ideas.
Imagine joint a debate room, claiming the subject makes good arguments, and replying “I don’t owe you an explanation!” When someone asks you you back your claims
Jack insulted Enlighten pretty much right away, and that killed any chance of having a productive conversation about the arguments. But the reality is that Enlighten was never going to engage with Jack on the arguments because we’ve seen in the past that he’s unable and unwilling to substantively refute anything Jack throws at him. It’s plainly obvious that no presup wants anything to do with Jack because he makes them look foolish. I personally don’t understand how these presuppers can listen to Jack dismantle their worldview time and time again and retain the belief. It just shows that Jack is right when he says the goal of most presuppers is to be a thug. They don’t care about being intellectually honest if they can get their jollies by pwning philosophical white belts online. The second they meet someone like Jack who is not just more knowledgeable but also a better debater, they fall apart. So the only way to retain their self image and lie to themselves is to avoid black belts altogether. The key difference between Jack and Darth is that Jack gets angry when his opponent refuses to address the argument and/or the questions he’s asking, and Darth gets upset when you try to deviate from his script by laying out your argument or saying anything more than yes or no. Also Jack is more than happy to be quiet and listen as long as his opponent shows him the same courtesy. He only gets upset when they REPEATEDLY dodge questions or ramble on about things that Jack isn’t talking about. I’ve only seen Darth allow his opponent to speak without interruption if he’s talking to someone widely respected like Oppy, Law, Malpass, or Ozy. Even then Darth can only bite his tongue for so long. The reason is because Darth doesn’t really care what they are saying. His only goal is to trap them in his word maze so that he can crow and grandstand. In other words, to be a thug.
Jack can't engage in debate with his worldview in the first place. 1. In order to qualify to engage in debate, both sides must presuppose knowledge & rational thought are possible. 2. Münchhausen's Trilemma covers why all non-Theist worldviews entail knowledge & rational thought are *not* possible. 3. Therefore, any non-Theist doesn't qualify to engage in debate to begin with. If they do engage in debate, they're immediately engaging in contradiction in multiple ways by presupposing X is possible and not possible at the same time. X = knowledge, rational thought, etc.
@@Yahweh_or_noway1 Explain why an internal critique of the Christian worldview is valid if it’s written on a napkin and read silently by the Christian, but it’s invalid if it’s written on a napkin and read out loud by an atheist or Muslim or Hindu.
@@_Stargazer_. I learned that from one of the commenters on these videos, Light Before The Tunnel. Darth isn't intelligent enough to know about Münchhausen's Trilemma or to use it in his argumentation correctly.
I'm all for asking and answering. But one guy was right with how disgusting Jack was acting much like Darth. Let's say I like Christopher Hitchens, and I liked his debates. I think he was really good at debating. Now is it my responsibility to recall any of his debates to confirm to you that he was good at debates? No, it's just a personal opinion and I don't have to explain my own opinions. It was rather rude of Jack to scream and shout curses and ad hom like he was trying to prove some point by acting just like Darth Dawkins. He could have made his statement and simply be done there, but instead he lashes out at anyone who even remotely joins in the conversation to criticise what he's doing, ignores the statement and continues attacking other people.
Darth Dawkins incorrectly applies dichotomies and the law of excluded middle to epistemology(peoples opinions). He conflates two different usages of contingent/non contingent and he uses modus ponnens at weird inappropriate times. He's does not make valid arguments at all. He makes arguments that are flatly incorrect. Also the attributes that he assigns to God are constantly contradicted in the bible.
As you listen to the so called Enlighten One he is getting more and more angry and irrational, Darth has never given a rational reasonable position/ this guy defending EO is an ass. EO made a claoim and can not justify his claim.
Jacob is a tool. If you don't have to support anything you say with evidence or an argument, then what's the point of these forums in the first place? To preach, to troll, to lie???
That guy parachuting in at 23:00 to say he's so tired of Christians being dishonest, because he's saying the presupper dodged Jack's question is objectively wrong. He directly refused to engage with Jack's question because he said he determined it isn't worth addressing. You can't dodge with something you refused to engage with to begin with. He was completely honest about his determination that it's not worthy of being addressed, and I agree with him. Jack made the universal claim that every single time Darth has argued anything, it has been formally invalid. That's absurd. Notice Jack did not specify syllogisms, he said any time Darth had ever disagreed or objected to anything anyone has ever said in his entire life... it had been formally invalid. First of all, Jack's worldview can't justify universal claims at all. Second of all, there is a limit to what people are going to address. When your claim is beyond a certain point of ridiculousness, it's perfectly reasonable to not honor it with a response. He doesn't owe Jack a response and he's not "dodging" (which presupposes they already were engaged in debate). He refused to engage with Jack. And rightfully so. All non-Theist worldviews cannot justify engaging in debate in the first place.
Enlightened and the mod wasted the time! They could’ve just said “No, I can’t provide a good argument from Darth” and it would’ve been over, but these dumbasses bent over backward to avoid and deflect for the whole video.
Nah. DD prevents the arguments being made, Jack tries to extract an argument. Both use insults and 'nasty words', but they have different aims in the conversation. The interlocutors trying to divert from their lack of argument by objecting to Jack's insults are the problem here.
@@derkylos eh to an extent but both let their short tempers derail conversations. DD gets stuck on having some question answered and refuses to move on unless it’s answered. Jack does the same. An honest person would prefer actual conversations
Lol, no, Jack slapped you around and the only thing you can do is troll on stage. The best you have is to comment on the video pretending to be someone else, again. Not the first time you have been caught pretending to be someone else. Strange how No Light in the Tunnel and Slithers both show up in the same comment sections and argue exactly the same. Now I'm wondering if all those "different" people is just one troll with absolutely nothing better than do, than to lie to random people on the internet. Enlightened One is a massively narcissistic troll, a manipulative liar that doesn't support his arguments. The best Un-Enlightened One can do is play victim and run away, which is exactly what happened in the video, again.
@@13shadowwolf wrong, I wasn't there, but that's funny shit you have stuck in your head. Just checking out the latest atheist antics used to get attention. It's always entertaining! You just have to love the atheist sense of humor. It's amazing! 👏 Not sure what that nasty shit jackals is spewing out his ass is used for besides attracting flies, and maybe fertilizer for the next crop of atheist. Good job Jack. Everyone loves those shit heads!
I don't think I've come across a more toxic & philosophically illiterate comment section than what is seen under Jack Angstreich videos. This is quite well known in the debate community too.
Jack is laughably delusional if he genuinely believes Darth has NEVER given a valid argument. I don't think there could possibly be a more overt display of dogmatic zealotry. He even made the positive assertion that EVERY time Darth argues anything, it's formally invalid. How can anyone take someone like this seriously... it's absurd. I genuinely don't understand why anyone listens to him for more than 10 seconds. This right here proves his pre-existing subjective bias is so severe it warps his interpretation of logical coherence that severely.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
I forget how dishonest and childish Enlighten One is until I hear him speak, and then it all comes rushing back.
“I don’t owe you anything” in no way constitutes an actual response to the question(s) being posed by Jack
He didn't claim it was a coherent response. He's specifically saying that he believes the question to be so poor that it isn't worth honoring with a response.
@@lightbeforethetunnel still not an answer.
@@theveganjoker7858 I agree. He's choosing to deliberately not answer the question.
There comes a point where you receive so many troll questions from the same individual that there comes a point where it would be irrational to continue interacting with that individual.
Arguing with someone who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
@@theveganjoker7858 Hopefully, you're not assuming that just because he's choosing to not interact with the question that it therefore can't be answered.
@@lightbeforethetunnel you think Jack has “renounced reason”?
Jack: "right ?"
Darth: "m'kay ?"
Darth eating
Jack panting
@Jacob B not saying they're the same, but those interjections are equally annoying.
@Jacob B It's in their approach. Both are equally obnoxious.
@@richardmoore6137 But only one doesn't claim warrant via imaginary horseshit.
@@quantize True. But that wasn't what I was talking about. Darth is definitely obnoxious, *and* dishonest.
Man, it’s nice to watch presups get their tactics thrown back in their faces.
"Shut up while I'm talking, right "
Jack Angry nicely uses same metehods that Darth Dawkings uses. Well played :)
How do people not get that Jack is demonstrating Darth’s idiotic technique?
Oh dear god in heaven. When enlightened kept saying "i don't owe you an explanation" and laughing that uncomfortable forced laugh, I had to work so hard not to pull my hair out.
👏🙂
I love how Jack is utterly ruthlessly truth seeking and humiliates dishonest/disingenuous people
Yup.😃
It's just sad how backwards you've got this. Jack is a deliberate sophist (and even he knows this)...
Jack views lying as just another tool to be used in debate to attempt to create the illusion of victory, he doesn't humiliate dishonest people. He avoids the truth with endless and deliberate fallacies
@@lightbeforethetunnel as Jack asked "has Darth ever given a valid argument for the existence of God"?
As I assume you are an honest person you'd agree that's a simple & reasonable question.
@@lightbeforethetunnel Let me guess. Presup, got mad that someone doesn't follow their leaps in logic. Do I have that right?
I've always wondered why Christians on this platform are so scared of arguments. They are so attached to the meta.
Phillip seems terrified just in general for having a conversation in a room with other people. Whining that it's not a 1 on 1 is so weird. Why go to public rooms then?
Jack's screams enlighten me
Me too
No wonder these people can't think properly about their beliefs, they're too busy moralizing and high-grounding each other to actually engage with the ideas.
Imagine joint a debate room, claiming the subject makes good arguments, and replying “I don’t owe you an explanation!” When someone asks you you back your claims
Boy, it gets ugly once you force presups to defend any claim. If meet one in real life and ask them to defend a claim, they would just fake a seizure.
Is Enlightened One the guy who slapped himself and looks like he's cosplaying as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Yeh that’s him
Enlightened One did indeed slap himself, and then call Satan Daddy. It was hilarious and he disappeared for a good long while after that dropped.
He is like the littlest guy in the gang, always having to do something bizarre to get attention bc of his insecurities. Sick puppy.
@@michaeldeatonHe literally slapped himself and said the words "Satan you are Daddy"? WTF? I've never seen/heard that one.
@Troy Garrett he said "Satan" then slapped himself then said "daddy" lmfao
Redefined and Enlightened, and Phillip---- lol --- hacks. Funny! Andrew is so serious.
Jack insulted Enlighten pretty much right away, and that killed any chance of having a productive conversation about the arguments. But the reality is that Enlighten was never going to engage with Jack on the arguments because we’ve seen in the past that he’s unable and unwilling to substantively refute anything Jack throws at him. It’s plainly obvious that no presup wants anything to do with Jack because he makes them look foolish. I personally don’t understand how these presuppers can listen to Jack dismantle their worldview time and time again and retain the belief.
It just shows that Jack is right when he says the goal of most presuppers is to be a thug. They don’t care about being intellectually honest if they can get their jollies by pwning philosophical white belts online. The second they meet someone like Jack who is not just more knowledgeable but also a better debater, they fall apart. So the only way to retain their self image and lie to themselves is to avoid black belts altogether.
The key difference between Jack and Darth is that Jack gets angry when his opponent refuses to address the argument and/or the questions he’s asking, and Darth gets upset when you try to deviate from his script by laying out your argument or saying anything more than yes or no. Also Jack is more than happy to be quiet and listen as long as his opponent shows him the same courtesy. He only gets upset when they REPEATEDLY dodge questions or ramble on about things that Jack isn’t talking about.
I’ve only seen Darth allow his opponent to speak without interruption if he’s talking to someone widely respected like Oppy, Law, Malpass, or Ozy. Even then Darth can only bite his tongue for so long. The reason is because Darth doesn’t really care what they are saying. His only goal is to trap them in his word maze so that he can crow and grandstand. In other words, to be a thug.
Jack can't engage in debate with his worldview in the first place.
1. In order to qualify to engage in debate, both sides must presuppose knowledge & rational thought are possible.
2. Münchhausen's Trilemma covers why all non-Theist worldviews entail knowledge & rational thought are *not* possible.
3. Therefore, any non-Theist doesn't qualify to engage in debate to begin with.
If they do engage in debate, they're immediately engaging in contradiction in multiple ways by presupposing X is possible and not possible at the same time.
X = knowledge, rational thought, etc.
@@Yahweh_or_noway1 Explain why an internal critique of the Christian worldview is valid if it’s written on a napkin and read silently by the Christian, but it’s invalid if it’s written on a napkin and read out loud by an atheist or Muslim or Hindu.
@@Yahweh_or_noway1 Just another one of Darth's stupid arguments which holds zero value. Fallacious thinking at its best.
@@_Stargazer_. That's not one of Darth's arguments. He never includes Münchhausen's Trilemma in his argumentation
@@_Stargazer_. I learned that from one of the commenters on these videos, Light Before The Tunnel. Darth isn't intelligent enough to know about Münchhausen's Trilemma or to use it in his argumentation correctly.
I'm all for asking and answering. But one guy was right with how disgusting Jack was acting much like Darth. Let's say I like Christopher Hitchens, and I liked his debates. I think he was really good at debating. Now is it my responsibility to recall any of his debates to confirm to you that he was good at debates? No, it's just a personal opinion and I don't have to explain my own opinions. It was rather rude of Jack to scream and shout curses and ad hom like he was trying to prove some point by acting just like Darth Dawkins. He could have made his statement and simply be done there, but instead he lashes out at anyone who even remotely joins in the conversation to criticise what he's doing, ignores the statement and continues attacking other people.
Jack is every bit as entertaining as Darth.
Yes, Darth is a great A POLY JIZZ
Darth Dawkins incorrectly applies dichotomies and the law of excluded middle to epistemology(peoples opinions). He conflates two different usages of contingent/non contingent and he uses modus ponnens at weird inappropriate times. He's does not make valid arguments at all. He makes arguments that are flatly incorrect.
Also the attributes that he assigns to God are constantly contradicted in the bible.
36th to be a big, bad and spooky guy.
what a shitshow, mostly meta. but yeah, Darth sucks.
Good grief.
As you listen to the so called Enlighten One he is getting more and more angry and irrational, Darth has never given a rational reasonable position/
this guy defending EO is an ass. EO made a claoim and can not justify his claim.
Jacob is a tool. If you don't have to support anything you say with evidence or an argument, then what's the point of these forums in the first place? To preach, to troll, to lie???
That guy parachuting in at 23:00 to say he's so tired of Christians being dishonest, because he's saying the presupper dodged Jack's question is objectively wrong. He directly refused to engage with Jack's question because he said he determined it isn't worth addressing. You can't dodge with something you refused to engage with to begin with. He was completely honest about his determination that it's not worthy of being addressed, and I agree with him.
Jack made the universal claim that every single time Darth has argued anything, it has been formally invalid. That's absurd. Notice Jack did not specify syllogisms, he said any time Darth had ever disagreed or objected to anything anyone has ever said in his entire life... it had been formally invalid.
First of all, Jack's worldview can't justify universal claims at all. Second of all, there is a limit to what people are going to address. When your claim is beyond a certain point of ridiculousness, it's perfectly reasonable to not honor it with a response.
He doesn't owe Jack a response and he's not "dodging" (which presupposes they already were engaged in debate). He refused to engage with Jack. And rightfully so. All non-Theist worldviews cannot justify engaging in debate in the first place.
Are you on clubhouse
Enlightened and the mod wasted the time! They could’ve just said “No, I can’t provide a good argument from Darth” and it would’ve been over, but these dumbasses bent over backward to avoid and deflect for the whole video.
Jack acts the same as Darth, they're worth each other...
except Jack doesnt believe in horseshit.
Jack is absolutely as bad as Darth. Other side of the same coin
Hmm. Darth is racist, trasphobic, slurs people. Jack just shouts at thugs and says they’re dishonest pieces of garbage.
I’m not sure they’re the same
Nah. DD prevents the arguments being made, Jack tries to extract an argument. Both use insults and 'nasty words', but they have different aims in the conversation.
The interlocutors trying to divert from their lack of argument by objecting to Jack's insults are the problem here.
@@AtheistDiscussions ok, so Jack is just as impatient, immature, and insufferable. But sure..he’s not bigoted as best as I can tell. Def slurs people
@@derkylos eh to an extent but both let their short tempers derail conversations. DD gets stuck on having some question answered and refuses to move on unless it’s answered. Jack does the same. An honest person would prefer actual conversations
derwood is absolutely as bad as Jack. other side of the blurble babble.
KEvron
Jack debased himself with a series of bald assertions, insults, and brain farts! What a little crying baby. 😢 😭
Keep coping enlighten one 😉
Can’t say I blame him because Un-enlightened dare not set foot in the octagon.
@@gustercc being a punk doesn't qualify him for the octagon!
Lol, no, Jack slapped you around and the only thing you can do is troll on stage. The best you have is to comment on the video pretending to be someone else, again.
Not the first time you have been caught pretending to be someone else. Strange how No Light in the Tunnel and Slithers both show up in the same comment sections and argue exactly the same. Now I'm wondering if all those "different" people is just one troll with absolutely nothing better than do, than to lie to random people on the internet.
Enlightened One is a massively narcissistic troll, a manipulative liar that doesn't support his arguments. The best Un-Enlightened One can do is play victim and run away, which is exactly what happened in the video, again.
@@13shadowwolf wrong, I wasn't there, but that's funny shit you have stuck in your head. Just checking out the latest atheist antics used to get attention. It's always entertaining! You just have to love the atheist sense of humor. It's amazing! 👏
Not sure what that nasty shit jackals is spewing out his ass is used for besides attracting flies, and maybe fertilizer for the next crop of atheist. Good job Jack. Everyone loves those shit heads!
I don't think I've come across a more toxic & philosophically illiterate comment section than what is seen under Jack Angstreich videos. This is quite well known in the debate community too.
Jack is laughably delusional if he genuinely believes Darth has NEVER given a valid argument. I don't think there could possibly be a more overt display of dogmatic zealotry. He even made the positive assertion that EVERY time Darth argues anything, it's formally invalid. How can anyone take someone like this seriously... it's absurd. I genuinely don't understand why anyone listens to him for more than 10 seconds. This right here proves his pre-existing subjective bias is so severe it warps his interpretation of logical coherence that severely.
Darth has never given a valid argument for the necessity of god. Ever.
Then give the argument
then why did you listen to him for more than 10 seconds?
What's the argument?
Darth is omniscient because?......
Jack gets destroyed with his own words! Right! Right! Right!
Which words were those that supposedly ‘destroyed’ Jack?
@@AsixA6 really! Wow, right!
@@constructivecritique5191 Was my question not clear?
@@AsixA6 right, so you didn't get it so I'll need to call you an idiot now!
@@constructivecritique5191 Stated the idiot that thinks “right, really wow”, ‘DESTROYED’ Jack. Lol 😂 You idiots crack me up.
On some real shit. I’d jack continues this way I’m out…I’d rather listen to and old darth than whatever he thinks this is
11:51 lol