Has Leffen Had a Better Year Than Mew2king?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- We look into Leffen's placings for the year to see if the data shows who has had a better overall 2017.
Sponsored by Smash Crate:smashcrate.com/
Use code "UNTITLED" for 10% your order!
Follow me on Twitter - / saveasuntitled
Like me on Facebook - / saveasuntitled
In retrospect and with all of the comments, I've feel like I have made a bit of a mistake with this video. Instead of looking for conclusions from the data, I made the mistake of looking for data that fit my conclusions.
I apologize for this shoddy mindset and will be more weary of making mistakes like these in the future. Again, thanks to you all for calling me out on my BS.
"Weary" means tired. "Wary" is the word you're looking for. Just a heads-up.
kudo''s for adressing critique in such an open way :)
Take down the video.
I won't because I still do stand by my opinion in the video. I just feel like I should have represented in a more unbiased way and gave more time to Mew2King's side of the story and dealt with some of the other issues in the video.
Yeah it's called confirmation bias. Everyone makes that mistake eventually, it's good that you acknowledge it.
Seems kinda nitpicky that you fail to mention Saints Gaming and I don't see why Leffen has had a better year then Mew2king statistically. Mew2king is more consistent and the argument that Leffen has better peaks over Mew2king is literally one tournament that Mew2king didn't attend. And the argument that Leffen is more likely to win a supermajor just seems biased. Good video though.
Superpokemaster He just uses statistics to seem unique and probably doesn't have much of a video without them
YoungMain and chooses which ones at that. This is why statistics can become flawed. dh summer counted but stronger tournaments like sc 69 and sgl aren't (they weren't locals or all local talent pool either)
Yeah, those SCs can easily have 3 top 10 players since M2K, Plup, & HBox all live close. Attendees are more important than size, and Florida has 3 of the top 6 right there.
I know Armada is clutch and all. But I'm pretty mad that it's constantly brought up how Mew2King hasn't beaten Armada this year. The two sets they played were one hit away from 3-1 and 2-1 Mew2King. Also, those two sets were played at supermajors and in both supermajors, Mew2King gave Armada the most trouble and Armada destroyed in Grand Finals. Whereas the only HBOX and Leffen wins over Armada were in the same tournament where according to Mango, Armada was playing awful and even Shroomed could have beaten him.
I absolutely love your videos! Thanks for uploading, you're quickly becoming one of my favorite TH-camrs :)
You need to fact check your videos, Armada 3-0d Leffen at Summit Spring, it was
not a 5 game set, Leffen was eliminated by M2k at Dreamhack Austin,
while Mang0 beat Leffen in Winner's Quarters. Also discounting Saints
Gaming Live and Smash Conference 69 is very stupid. Dreamhack Summer had 90 entrants and LanETS had 116 entrants, SGL had 81 entrants but was arguably more stacked than those 2 tournies and was in Canada just like LanETS. Smash Conference 69 had 103 entrants and was arguably more stacked than the 2 tournaments as well. Lastly you never mention that m2k has a better record against the top 6 than Leffen.
this video summed up "im going to disregard m2k's good placements, then decide that m2k cant win a super major, then ill make leffens losses seem not as bad as they are and finally, because i ignored m2k's good placements, its clear leffen is better"
Did you say that you can't see M2K winning a super major in the near future? You're out of your mind. To look at how well he could do at a super major, I think that individual wins are extremely important. M2K would have select few opponents that could give him legit trouble. He has a decent win rate over Hbox this year with a 5 to 7 record. He nearly beat Armada at EVO which is huge considering how much effort a player like Armada would put into a tournament as big as EVO (Though still has a 0 to 2 record this year). M2K is 1 to 1 with Mang0 this year which is really impressive considering how much trouble Mang0 has given him in the past. M2K is also ahead of the Big Leff this year with a 2 to 1 record while beating him at EVO and once again, EVO is a big deal and most players give it their all making this slightly more important than other sets imo. There are no other players that have winning records on M2K (except maybe ChuDat but I'm not sure). It is definitely possible for M2K to win a super major in the near future considering his placings this year and his records against other top players.
Beyond Fables Uh, Ka-Master.
You are incredibly good at analytical style videos, and looking at the view count they have been a blessing to your channel. Please continue doing them, and keep up the good work!
Love to see a video about AXE. I think he's had a pretty good year. With wins over two gods, and very close sets with Armada. I'd like to see where you think he ranks.
Regarding what you said about Leffen being tied with Shroomed at Royal Flush, Shroomed played out of his mind during that tournament, having an extremely close set with Mang0, who ended up winning the tournament, so you can probably weigh that tourney higher for Leffen.
i really enjoy your analytic melee contend
Lol, I like how you in depth analyze Leffen's year and justify all his bad losses while pretty much diminishing MK2's placings.
The REAL problem is that the smash community needs a formal way of keeping "score" like how formula 1 racing does it.
I love these analyses on the players themselves. Keep it going 👌
Would love an Axe video!
i wonder if it's possible to incorporate videos with in-game analysis, like a video dedicated to hbox's basic rest set ups, or armada's turnip placement on edge guards, average damage of m2k's chaingrabs on FD, chances the sfat taunt works, how often mango goes to the ledge, chance mango gets punished for the double laser... actually these seem particularly difficult, because some entails watching multiple sets searching for a few moments to make the data... that's mad time-consuming.
maybe, i'd also enjoy new long video or many short vods, for people just getting into the scene on explaining the basic terminology past knowing the names of the button attacks, like sakurai combo, scar jump, sweetspot, phantom hit, power shield. the explanation for some of these are like 15 years old.
I just got to say I love the editing in each of these videos good work
I'm not convinced that Leffen has had a better year than M2K. YES, M2K probably has the least chance of winning a supermajor, but other than that, your logic is flawed. It's strange that you left out win rates against the top 6 for 2017, so let's compare. M2K: 4-1 Plup, 1-1 Mango, 5-7 Hbox, 0-2 Armada, and 2-1 Leffen. Leffen: 1-1 Plup, 1-2 Mango, 3-4 Hbox, 1-5 Armada, and 1-2 M2K. It's no contest. M2K has better win rates against top 6 members. Also, let's look at many tournaments. M2K: 1st at Smash Conference 69, 3rd at Genesis, 4th at Summit, 2nd at FPS 2, 9th at Smash Rivalries, 1st at CEO Dreamland, 3rd at Dreamhack Austin 2017, 2nd at Battle of BC 2, 1st at Saint Gaming Live, 4th at EVO 2017, 3rd at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017. Leffen: 5th at Genesis, 1st at LAN, 2nd at BEAST, 3rd at Summit, 9th at Full Bloom, 7th at Dreamhack Austin 2017, 5th at Royal Flush, 2nd at Smash N Splash, 2nd at Dreamhack Summer 2017, 9th at EVO, and first at GOML 2017. Averaging out these tournaments, M2K has an average of 3rd, while Leffen has an average of around 4th. That already disproves your point, but I'm going to go even further. Remember when you said that you would be unfairly punishing Leffen for counting American tourneys? Well, we should not count the European tourneys to not unfairly punish M2K. And what about the fact that Leffen gets washed by Armada while M2K doesn't? I proved that M2K has had a better year using your strongest thing; Statistics.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with this conclusion. If there was any debate on who was the better player, it would have to settled on tournaments in which both were in attendance, and M2K simply annihilated Leffen at EVO (in addition to outperforming him in Genesis). Those are already the two biggest/most important tournaments of the year, and 3rd place at either is not equivalent to 2nd or even 1st at a lesser event (impressive as they may most certainly are). You have taken care not to make all low placings equivalent (due to being pitted against more difficult players), you have not taken the same care for higher placings. Not all data points are equal.
YESSS ANOTHER VIDEOOO
I was going to disagree with the conclusion and data, but it seems like everyone else already has. Good job everyone.
m2k has been far more consistent and his wins are just as if not more impressive then leffen's, the only argument for leffen being more likely to win a super major over m2k is that he has a set over armada
Would you consider making videos on characters rather than the players, for instance it would be cool to know how viable is a character like luigi, or if fox being the best character in the game makes him actually dominate the meta by using stats. Thanks, and great video
Yeah I would totally be down to do something like that! It'd probably take a tad more time to collect all the data but I feel like it would produce a really interesting video. Thanks for the suggestion.
how does he show fox dominates the meta by using win-loss comparisons?
Keep up the work dude! Really enjoying your stuff :D
Leffen is closer to Plup than M2K
You should do a video on Marth and pikachus record on FD and really see if it's as dominating of a counterpick as people say
I in general value consistency over peaks. That's why I actually think m2k is actually 3rd in the world then mango then leffen. You didn't mention all saints as you already know. Lol also you forgot to mention that m2k has had a very close set with ARMADA, since you are mentioning how close leffen was. He also has a better head to head with hbox and mango. He was also almost beat ARMADA while ARMADA was playing out of his mind at genesis and evo so it's still in m2k's favor in my opinion.
great analysis, aside from leaving out saint's gaming. i have m2k over leffen because of that, but you've convinced me it is closer than i thought. would like to hear your thoughts on axe's year; 3 god wins (including 2-0 over mang0) and took armada and hbox both to the rubber match in the one set they each played.
If goml counts so does sgl. Thus making a tourney in which m2k has also double eliminated HBOX. Also, leffen's worst loss is zain. Ranked 41. M2k's is n0ne at 18th
"its hard to imagine mew2king win a super major in the near future..."
:(
Levi Kleinwort Oh No... The curse... The irony... M2K wins the next one. And, no, I'm not counting Smash Con because it didn't have at least 18 of the top 20 and all of the top 10, so screw that. Though, it was close to one and it was still bigger than what M2K has won in his career. Then Seinfeld theme plays.
I'm also not counting Smash N Splash, Royal Flush, Dreamhack Austin, and even Shine.
I'm also not counting GTX, since Mang0 is not going.
I'm also counting Big House 7, since it has 19 of the top 20, and that one is the worst one.
Finally, even Summit is just a high caliber major.
Do Westballz next
this channel is so cool :o
he fucks up leffen head to head
in 2019 it's "has m2k had a better year than leffen?" lol
The question of who's 3rd? Mango M2K is 55-45 with Mango having only a small edge over him acording to most people, and if you put a worse version of Mango (Leffen) of course M2K is better or if you are streching it the would be tied at most, Leffen wouldn't be better in any case.
summer rankings show mang0 3rd & m2k 4th, and with evo recently passing it still stands as that because of m2k's 4th place & mang0's 2nd
you have a weird fetish for downplaying mew2king's achievements.
Yeah I feel plup should be here as well
Why do you have so few subs???
That was so biased, but cool video though.
Wow so take out smash conference and sgl, you take away 3 wins over hbox and other top players
MortalJason considering non locals also weren't there yeah it's p dumb lol. Also kinda forgets the top4 at evo.
TL:DW: No
Who is ranking Mang0 higher than M2K?
Chromosomes smash.gg for one
They have him higher for 2016, not 2017
leffen lost 3-0 to armada at summit, not 3-2
sure, tournament wise you can always look for results, but when it comes to players head on... there is just no way to say leffen is better than m2k...
last I checked leffen has a losing record against m2k. and I love it. only in 2015 leffen had the upper hand but it was still very close set count
Badhbh Cath m2ks arguably worst year (he was dealing with hand pain and was on the verge of being called not a god) and leffens best year of his career was 4-5 leffens favor for the year. He has taken 2 sets total since I believe. m2ks best h2h is by far leffen
Leffen isn't remotely close to M2k this year.
Ima huge Leffen fan, and even I think this is garbage. If you're gonna make DATA videos, at least TRY to hide your bias when coming to conclusions.
u da best and u sound super handsome
You didn't even breakdown m2k win and loser the way you did laffen and him beat Armada should be that big of deal in ranks do to the fact that they play all the time m2k doesn't get to play him as much so I would disregard that win due to that fact that like pulp beat m2k a big deal when it should be
Being a Leffen fan right now LUL.
13ffen
Gamecubed 72 That's the new meme. He needs to get first at Big House 7 if he wants to be top 5.
Well he might of had a good performance, he's still 6th.
Being an M2K fan now LUL
Wrong.
m2k also has beaten many harder plays then leffen cause hes in the usa so leffen has a better match ups
I've usually enjoyed your stuff, but this was one of the worst argued videos i've seen in a while homie.
dude you are late m2k is in top 3
Mr_Lg Na, Mango is in top 3. I will say this though; M2K is just two big tournament wins away from being potentially top 2.
Another fantastic analysis, Agree with everything you said. I was actually thinking recently about how M2K is starting to fall behind Leffen and *Recent* Mango. M2K's weakness lies a lot in mentality and confidence breaks against Armada/HBox. Evo is a keen example of that. Leffen's "smug aura" as i've heard it referred to, is actually just stern confidence and an 'I Can' mindset. Exactly why he was able to take a set off Armada while M2K has not. Great video.
CiiViL in what way? Leffen has had one good tournament lately against his best h2hs for a grand finals win. The only tournament he has won this year is against historically his best h2h lol. m2ks last two tournaments were evo (4th place - leffen got 9th) and dh atl (3rd). There's more of an argument of plup being over leffen then leffen being over m2k imo.
LUL his "I can" mindset has taken a set off armada. You do realize Leffen has played against armada more than mew2king has this year right? the two sets that m2k and armada played were both to game 5. As it stands M2k is 2-0 vs Armada, sure but they were last stock matchs. Leffen, however is 5-1 in Armadas favor. I love Leffen almost as much as I love M2k but M2k is still ahead of Leffen
By ranking leffen over m2k you are saying leffen wins vs m2k on average, witch is not true.
Myth Melee that is not how rankings work, by your logic chudat should be above mang0 which is clearly ridiculous.
Tor Ormseth I would understand if they are lower on the pr or they had one or more people between them, but they are neck to neck and fighting for 4th. By switching them all you are saying is m2k is worse then leffen. Swapping chudat and mang0 is huge because of the amount of space between them. But if chu and mang0 was close, if give it to chu.
I won't disagree with you on that, I think the head to head is valuable in rankings that can be disputed, but I think it should only be used if other factors are already taken into account (the head to head itself also being part of another factor) as a tie-breaker or a slight influence. I definitely agree that m2k should still be above Leffen, though.
please don't say GOML again. hi
Ive never seen a more biased video in the community please take this down.
For the LEFF v M2K coversation. I think it's a no-brainer that LEFF has done better this year. The real question is how does LEFF stack up against players like Plup and HBOX.
M2K is my idol but I agree.