My Lintons took ages to break in. We use them low volume for every day TV and movies. I took them to the listening room after about a year and gave them a workout, they’ve sounded exponentially better ever since. It’s very real.
Interesting, i’ve had my lintons for a year now and I also listen at lower volumes and everyday tv. Are how long they’ve been used irrelevant when breaking them in or is it down to how loud they are played?
oh just run them for a few days on a 40-50hz sign wave. The materials will relax much more quickly. All the way up to the first crossover point will improve very fast. I haven't tried these, but every other driver I've run into will break-in that way in about 72hrs.
I agree and would be interested to to hear an update. If I understand what is being said, ‘I’m converted’ is based on the assumption that the bass will improve significantly over some time. If it doesn’t, then the supers just have less bass?
You need to do a double-blind test between brand new speakers and “broken-in” speakers. Listen to them in the same sitting so time and your ears getting used to the sound of the speakers over a period of months aren’t a factor.
Could be totally doable with the set that's been on the floor breaking in and then a new pair someone buys that allows you to take them out at the shop and do that very thing ❤ Let me know so I can be there 😉
@@Zimmy_1981 No, some people DO "believe" in it, but have no proof of their belief. A belief, is something you think but have no concrete evidence of, nor can prove, nor can measurements back it up. So those say there is no break in, have no beliefs....
@@kevintomb make sense, kinda expanded on what I typed. Do u "believe" in it? I personally had experience with it, but as u correctly typed: no tangible evidence as proof
Not sure about capacitor break in. I buy the idea that drivers loosen up over 24 hrs or so. Having said that, crossover caps are very important. I just replaced the original caps on a pair of original Linton 3xp. Before they sounded shrill and harsh. After putting in new high quality polycaps they were smooth and sweet. Measuring the old caps their capacitance measured significantly high, which will have affected the frequency response. Now this indicates that the chemical composition of the electrolyte has changed, but over 50 years, not a few months. PS. I also lined the cabinets with high quality acoustic wool, so that will also have helped.
I'll just chime in with this - Crossover saturation is a thing that absolutely occurs with certain speakers with quality crossovers. My speakers, which have very big and robust crossover components how very high quality - they sound dark, muffled and uncontrolled if they have been unplugged for a week or so. It's simply astonishing how much they transform in only 20-30min from 0. My dad couldn't believe his ears, but he had not choice but to, because he could not deny reality as it unfolded in front of him. It goes from sounding near-broken to amazing in 30min, which is at least what they need to open up and start sounding like they should, and it only improves with more time. Capacitors are like batteries storing energy, it makes sense for them to "charge up" for a bit if they have been drained.
@@phetmoz hmm. I'm using a pair of old signet SL280EX right now. I might swap out the crossover components and see what happens. Its known these speakers can't really keep it together over 80db or so. I have to wonder how much of that is a) original capacitor and coil selection b) age of the capacitors. Cheers.
Wharfedale was killing it over a half a century ago, but I don't think a lot of people realized it back then.. I still have a working pair of Rosedale's that have only had crossover cap changes, and are still great speakers that haven't deteriorated.🙏 I'm like you, if the speakers are good, then they're good; doesn't matter if they're old or new..
I love the Linton line, It reminds me of what a modern ADS could be. The Lintons pull off the vintage meets modern look perfectly and will pair great with our vintage receiver / integrated / separates.. Cant wait to hear Lintons in person, Wharfdale is defintely on a role.
I just learned Badfinger's Baby Blue on guitar with the leads. Loved listening to it through my Leak gear and my Wharfdale Lintons. I also have a pair of '65 Wharfedale W60s that I restored, rebuilt the crossovers, put new cream linen grill cloth to replace the old stained plasticized original. That was a lot of work to do. Great review.
I have a pair of Linton W20s hooked to my Harman Kardon 430 twin They’re tiny but when people come over and listen to em they think I’m hiding a different set of speakers mostly due to the bass!
I have the Import Album of Badfinger with Baby Blue on it. Maybe Kevin from Skylabs is listening to an American pressing? My Album is a wonderful recording and the music sounds great through my Advent Loudspeakers. But then everything sounds great through my Advents. 😊 I also have a pair of vintage Wharfedale's in solid walnut cabinets. Like fine furniture. 14" inch Woofers with (2) tweeters. One of the tweeters lights up purple in the center when powered up. I've never seen any other speakers do that. Being vintage, they still sound great and can actually handle the power of my 400 watt Phase Linear Amplifier.
Peter Comeau has been a top UK designer for decades. His pioneering work on loudspeaker cabinets is well documented. Right now, I'd put him in the very top echelon of global loudspeaker designers. The benefits of a 3 way are well known, especially if you can have 1 unit to cover the midrange. The difficulties of the crossover design are also well known, but if anyone can design a well integrated 3 way, he can.
So the crossover design is sort of the make or break difficult part of the process? Makes sense to me to have a speaker for each range, with the no replacement for displacement etc
I bid on a pair of vintage floor model Wharfedale speakers (early 1970's speakers?) at a home auction about 20 years ago and won. I had no idea of their history. They're solid walnut cabinets, 24" inches in height, 21" inches across and 13" inches deep, with walnut engraved molding all around the cloth speaker covers. They look like high end furniture. 14" Woofers with (2) tweeters, of which one of the tweeters lights up purple in the center while powered up. Beautiful in looks with exquisite sound and can handle my 400 Watt Phase Linear Amp. Priceless.
Love Wharfedale! 2 things, with the first calling the bluff, and the second getting real: 1) That thing about breaking in "capacitors" is indeed questionable, and most likely horse-hockey! As far as I know, the only kind of capacitor that "breaks in" are old-style oil caps, that gradually become leaky and thus change their values, and eventually fail. 2) HOWEVER, having had several new speakers over many years, and also re-rimming several pairs for a friend, the actual speaker chassis definitely need a break-in period to loosen up the new rims/surrounds outside (new and re-rimmed) and initially also the spider membranes inside. The sound becomes more mellow, gains impact, loses any sort of metallic harshness, opens up, and needs a bit less power. The sound becomes more voluminous, de-compresses, and the spectrum widens for a fuller, richer sound.
From what I have learned, break-in for speakers is way more mechanical than electrical involving the crossovers. The spiders and even the surrounds need to be worked to break-in and will become less stiff allowing faster movement. Also the voice coils go through heating and cooling and will slightly change in size and slightly change their relationship to the magnet structure. All of which will change how a speaker sounds over time. Sadly, depending on the use and quality of the parts, these changes can keep happening over the life of the speaker, for the worse or better. Any changes in capacitors by comparison I think are much much more slight.
I was going to add a comment about this but you've already covered it. Fresh from manufacture all the parts of a speaker have mechanical stresses due to the molding and assembly processes which need to be 'relaxed'. The majority of this happens within a few weeks of use, but speakers will keep on getting better over the first six months of use. Also note that, straight out of the box, temperature changes will upset the performance until all the parts have equalised to room temperature which takes about 24 hours.
This comment needs more love. But it would appear the consumer only values their merchant if they treat then like a bloody t*mp*n. At least that's what it would appear from the actions of 85% of companies operating post-corona.
@@donalddougherty5016 I've never heard the SX-1010, but others have said that it was a great receiver. I have owned a SX-780 , Marantz 2238B, Realistic STA 2000, and a QX-949 and have kept the SX-828, as I like it the best.
Hit them hard with some power right out of the box. Being new, how they are initially used, without abusing them, determines their lifespan. As a test track, Im usually a hard rock guy, I put Hidden places by Karunesh on to check detail and separation. I stumbled upon that track by accident and was blown away. It has great hieght, width and depth with separation that is unreal. Enjoy the new kit. Its always fun to see the capabilities of new gear.
I love my Lintons. I stopped watching the video once he said they sound better than the Super Lintons, I don't want to give myself any excuse to upgrade.
@@davidmmontgomery I don't consider this video as a good review. No break in time. Also, the Super Linton is designed to be placed near(er) to a wall, which will emphasize the lower end. Check Erin's Audio Corner for a more thorough review of the 'regular' Linton 85 and the new Super Linton loudspeakers.
lol i bought the linton heritage mostly due to this channel. I stopped the video there as well. I imagine it's marginally different, I'm not trying to get FOMO right now because I love mine
I just my Wharfdale w30 from years ago, so lovely to see Wharfedale are still around ,incredible ,hopefully one pay visit to store sometime ,might be tempted buy Cambridge evo one speaker,love the channel ,Chris DFW TX🇬🇧
I never really thought that "break in" was something I would hear. About six years ago I picked up some Wharfedale Diamonds (model ?)... I didn't like them much, moved them to the bedroom. Some months later I was listening to them, and noticed they sounded really quite good. I don't even have good hearing, but the change over time was very noticeable.
I bought a pair of brand new JBL 4312Gs a couple of years ago. They sounded thin and lifeless for a good while. I got home from work one day and gave them a workout. They opened up and begged for more . I love my JBLs.🎉
you're more or less right with not breaking-in the speakers - it's more a getting used to the sound over a period of time. i saw measurements of the new super lintons and they have less pronounces bass in the lower octaves. what you are hearing is right and by design to put the speaker closer to a wall and gain some room bass. you could set the speakers up in a room and place them 1 feet from the front wall to see how the bass is different on the two models. cheers
Love the Wharfedales. I would like to hear some Lintons. I don't know a lot about the different models but on a whim I bought a gently used set of diamond 225's and they sound really nice on a vintage Nikko nr815 receiver as a bedroom dresser system. Those two really have the synergy going on. I just use it when gettiing ready to go to work or folding laundry but it really is pleasing to the ears. I'l love to get a larger set someday for one of the other systems.
I saw in a video somewhere, don't recall where that the spiders in speakers when new are very rigid and need to develop micro-fractures in them to achieve full flexibility and thus the sound will open up and generally get better when "broken in'. For the last set of new speakers I bought, I placed the speakers face to face, wired one out of phase, and let them play for about 48 hours straight at a low-medium volume, occasionally raising and lowering the volume and it made a HUGE difference in their sound as compared to new out of the box sound. As always YMMV
I've used Black Cow by Steely Dan. To me, it has a nice range that helps me while making my decision to purchase. Great video as always... keep them coming!
I believe you being impressed with the Diamond 12.2’s bass. I got a new pair of Diamond 225’s and was pleasantly surprised by the bass of these stand mount speakers. I’ve been running them for about six months and still haven’t hooked up my subwoofers yet. I plan to, but I could be happy listening to these without subs. I listen to Blues, Classic Rock, Jazz, Soul, and Outlaw Country. Every genre sounds wonderful on these Wharfedale Diamond 225’s. Plenty of bass and no noticeable effects at crossover. Powering them with a Cambridge Audio CXA-61 Integrated Amp. Great combo, plenty of power and dynamic range. 👍🏼🎶😎
@WilliamSmart-g3s hello. I've been very pleased with them. I pulled the trigger before they jumped in price by $500. The stands are part of the package too. I missed the 3 way bass reflex design, that is what attracted them to me.
I heard them at a local dealer today. They are very good indeed, more depth & weight. Im factoring in that they need more break in but they are very good already. I own Linton 85 & Imf tsl50 & thats my reference, I fairly certain they would outperform both. Serious consideration with these
I've had my pair of Linton 85s for just over a year now and can confirm that these speakers require not only time but also some power to break in. For a while I had them fed by a 45 wpc KT88 tube amp, and frankly I thought they didn't quite live up to the hype. There was muddiness in the bass, graininess in the mids and haziness in the highs. I was so unimpressed initially as wanting to return them during the first month, only to be dissuaded from doing so by a friend who said they would need at least 100 hours to break in. The sound improved after a couple of months of sparing use since I didn't get to listen to them for more than 4 hours a week. But the improvement was really marginal. The revelation came only recently when I bought a 138 wpc Class AB solid state amp. Only after a week of hooking up the Lintons' sound underwent an Incredible Hulk-like transformation. The sound stage expanded immensely, and gone were the muddiness, graininess and haziness. Sonic lines became more sharply focused and defined. Finally the overwhelming dynamism astounded me. Conclusion: don't be misled by the Linton's claimed sensitivity of 90dB. These speakers need some real amp power to help them metamophosize.
One of the best channels for audio on TH-cam.. Your laid-back approach and emphasis on not having to spend ridiculous amounts of money in order to get great hi-fi sound makes you and your channel I stand out and an oasis in a sea of shilling and slimy sales marketeers, Only interested in misleading newbies. I also have vintage and new speakers. What I love about vintage speakers it’s just how well they were made and they just keep playing Sounding great 50 years later. I wish you shipped, As I would like to support your business.
I bought a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 12.3 about a year and a half ago. Their sound is fantastic, and truly there is a break in period. One of the requirements by my wife for the living room was a taller thinner pair of speakers to “fit the room.” She got her wish and so did I!
In the DIY community it is well known that a woofer’s Thiele Small parameters change after break in. When a manufacturer lists the TS parameters, they use a broken in woofer to derive them.
Hey Kevin. I hope you can have Peter Comeau on the show one day. He's been with Wharfedale going way way back. I'd love to hear his take on vintage units vs the stuff of today's world.
Break-in (of the cones, probably not of the capacitors) might be a factor but most of what you're hearing in the bass is that they're voiced completely differently in the bass than the OG Lintons. They're designed to be able to be placed against the wall. See Erin's Audio Corner review where he compares the frequency responses--it's completely different. They basically redesigned them to be less boomy and work in more average sized living rooms.
For sure, more with some speakers than others. When I first plugged my new DALIs in they sounded like they had a blanket hung in front of 'em. OK, wait and see... about six months in I actually had my back turned but, hold on... turned it up a tad and I could definitely hear the magic starting. A couple/three years in now and they're an entirely different pair of speakers than what they were outta the box, and in every way better. My own opinion is it's mostly the driver surrounds loosening up, but like... that's just my opinion, man... 😎 Thanks as always and cheers to the crew... gotta get your Dad on again! Regards,
It’s the same with guitar amps. Upgrade speaker swaps take time to break in. It depends on the type of music you’re playing and how they are being powered. Celestion Golds for example, they really need to be opened up. A few months, they sound in the pocket.
Dad bought a system with wharfedale sand suspension speakers back in the late 60’s. Man, I thought the family was royalty living in sunset park Brooklyn 👍
Thanks for sharing. Yes those smaller Wharfedales sound good. Old Guy HiFi borrowed my Wharfedale 225 for a review he did. Wonderful for the size and investment.
Kevin, as you show the Linton speakers here. I came across a receiver from the 70s named "Wharfedale Linton". But I could not find any information about its model number or specific model name. Kevin, do you know any concrete model names and model numbers from "wharfedale linton receivers" from the 70s?
Electronics, Cables, Power cords... no break in. Moving parts ... speakers, phono cartridges, etc. do require break in. Woofers and Mids do need some time to loosen up as the suspension parts soften and become more flexible with use. For a woofer this can take a few hours. For the mids, generally an hour will do it. What I do before delivering to a client is to run the speaker on a 10hz 5 watt sine wave for a couple of hours. If you don't want to rattle your entire home, hook the speakers up out of phase and place them facing each other about 6 inches apart... the parts are moving as they need to but the sound is cancelled.
@@skylabsaudioThe only Wharfedales I saw were in a dealer room and not everything was connected. I am try to get with Mofi to see if I can get a review sample. I am not holding my brerath.
Low frequency drivers are really the main drivers which have a suspension break in. It is measurable in Fs on isolated driver measurements, but not really sure how much that impacts other drivers or components. It may be much harder to measure.
There's also the new 3 way super Denton. Peter Comeau is a legendary designer for a reason. He really knows what he's doing. The new Mission 770 is also universally praised by one and all.
in July 2024 I got a pair of Buchardt S400 MK 2, brand new. Buchardt suggests between 50-300 hours of break-in time. I don't know if I've hit 50 hours yet but I love the sound so far. If they get better I'll be ecstatic. Congrats on getting the Wharfedale Super Lintons. Enjoy !!
Yes, caps break in, but that's like the last couple % (maybe). The spider and surround/suspension on a woofer are made of heavier fibres, have large bonds to break up and relax before they come into their own. This is accounted for by manufacturers. No designer evaluates a woofer they order straight off the production line.
You know what , lees dampened cabinets can add a nice resonance. Over dampened cabinets can loose the “body” that actually feels and sounds pleasing and less “ driver “ sounding .
I changed the Celestion Greenback in my Vox AC15 with a Celestion Creamback. It took a fair while to burn it in. Sounded ordinary at first, but now it's a different thing from what I had before.
That's really interesting. I demoed a pair of Lintons in my listening room a few years ago and returned them because I thought they sounded "small." Wonder if they just needed to break in....
Peter Comeau, the designer, says the Super Linton are designed to be put 12" from the rear wall to get an in-room response similar to the Linton. He intentionally did this after getting many complaints from people saying the Linton were too boomy. I guess not everyone has the space to pull speakers 3' or more from the rear walls. Maybe they should have simply supplied the Linton with port bungs. Do you think these (or the "regular" Linton) could adequately fill a 13' x 25' living room with full sound (if a subwoofer was added for the bottom octave)?
Diy speaker builders know about driver break in. Place the speakers in a basement or garage facing eachother closely. Play a reasonably bass heavy playlist on infinite repeat. Then turn of the amp, reverse the polarity on one speaker (+wire on - terminal, - wire on +terminal.....this is totally safe) and turn the amp back on. Because they are wired out of phase the sound isn't very loud now....same principle as noise cancelling headphones. Let it play like this for 2 or 3 days and your speakers are 95% broken in. The change due to break in can be small or rather large depending on driver materials. Some very high end drivers are already broken in at the factory.
I had a pair of Wharfdale W-60E back in the 70s and, for the size, the weight was unreal(sand!?). I moved up market to Klipsch La Scalas, with my McIntosh power and the still sound amazing
My father spent some time in Singapore in the late 60s and an associate he worked with had an upscale HIFI system with Warfdale speakers, and thats all he spoke about when we would talk stereo. I was 14 at the time and said when I get older, its game on for HiFi. I haven't looked back, good music sound is key. Like Wakeman said in an interview with Rick Beato, music is tactile and we need to go back to the basics to enjoy it. More record and audio dens.
I used to sell audio back in 79 to 82 and I can say for sure there have been huge improvements in speaker design. In fact, some of the speakers that people loved were crap. One that I hate is how reviewers talk about speakers and how orgasmic they are. I wish there was some sort of standard measurement for each of the drivers and the systems as a whole. I own some amazing speakers that are very expensive, but to hear some of these reviews it almost makes me think I'm missing something with my speakers. (which I'm not) Newer speakers have all kinds of advantages over the old ones. New materials and designs can be amazing. When I heard my speakers I immediately heard an improvement in the midrange and the speakers I upgraded from were terrific.
I know everyone has heard of Jensen, but has anyone heard of Janszen Z-300 Vintage 1959 Electrostatic Stereo Speakers? I sold a pair about 25 years ago. There is a pair for sale on Ebay right now.
Speakers do have break-in. My family owned a speaker component manufacturing plant that made stuff for JBL, Eminence, Celestion, Cerwin-Vega, etc. The spider and surround absolutely break in and it's accounted for when samples are tested before finalizing those parts. Some of the newer materials using pure butyl rubber have less break-in.
The Wharfedale Lintons were in serious consideration when looking for a new set of my 'forever' speakers. They lost out to my choice of the Vandersteen 1Ci+ speakers which are a 2-way unit. What sold me on them were a more punch with the bass and a brighter tweeter response. I think I attribute it to my 70 y/o ears. If I had the budget the Wharfedale Dovedale's would have been my choice.
Im looking forward to hearing the Wharfedale Super Linton. I already own the Lintons and for the best speaker for long term listening . They could do with a few more thrills so Im hoping this is where the Super Linton comes in. 😊 . Im not in a serious rush to get these . I await decent reviews and oppertunity to hear them 👍
i didn't hold much stock in the break in "thing" either. Until..... I got a set of elac dbr 62 bookshelf speakers. i kinda starved them for about 7 mths and then hooked them up with an amp with 100 W more headroom. Bazzinga! 6 mths later, I witnessed an actual sitting down hearing the improvement. I'm a Believer
I never heard of break in for speakers, but if you say it's a thing then it is. I'm curious about the crossover boards. Many electronic circuit products used to have a "burn in" at the factory. It was done since electronics tend to fail early if there are issues and better to do the "burn in" in the factory rather than after you bought the product they are in. It makes sense to me that speakers would sound a bit different as they are exercised if the cone material or surrounds can get a little less stiff with a few hundred thousand cycles. I don't have to worry about it much with my cheapie bookshelf speakers!
Most vintage crossovers used electrolytic caps. They have a definite lifespan. Changes in the electrolyte over time changes capacitance, series resistance and voltage leakage. Changes in capacitance in turn alters the crossover frequencies, and thus the frequency response of the speakers. When I buy a vintage pair of speakers I replace the caps with new polycaps and line the cabinets with quality acoustic wool. Around $30-40 investment and an hour or two of your time and you have a transformed sound. Likely the quality of components you have put in exceeds that of most modern speakers crossovers. I just purchased a pair of Linton 3XP from a junk shop for £40 in the UK. About an hour's work on the internals, some sanding and preparation of the cabinets with a cheap rotary sander and wire wool, a couple of coats of Teak Oil and I have a beautiful pair of speakers which rival the sound of many mid budget modern speakers and look much better. Total cost £70. Skill level minimal. You don't even need to solder if you don't want to. You can use crimp connections instead. I advise anyone with a bit of time to give it a go.
@@jimfarrell4635 Thanks for the info. I wish I knew what I know now about vintage speakers (still just a little) because the Dynaco A25's I gave to my son stopped working and they were sold on to someone who took the challenge. I could possibly have saved them. After all they were only 50+ years old! I only have just so much space for "stuff".
Hey Kevin. Always looking for new content of your videos. I know there are tons of vintage speakers but I want to know if you have ever heard EV-Fours, if yes what are your thoughts of them thanks.
I can't speak for speakers, since my current set of speakers belonged to my late best friend, and he used them a lot. However, headphones need to be broken in. I used to dislike the Sennheiser HD650s. They always sounded awful at high end shows, and that's because reps always bring, as they should, new phones for display. Then I bought a pair, and regretted it (the price was right), but after three weeks they became awesome. I had the same experience back in the 90s with a pair of Stax electret phones.
I noticed this with my Lintons as well. I bought them 2021, and at first was only semi-impressed. Three years on, and the bass has just expanded greatly. Overall, the speakers just sound better. At the time (2021) the "break-in" theory wasn't yet a thing. I'm glad to see this confirmed by an objective listener, one who at first didn't believe that they sound better with use.
You know Kevin it would be interesting if someone would record with an SPL and video the first listening and every few days update till that change occurs and shows this progression if it happens in steps or if it's just an immediate occurrence. I would also be interested in seeing if there is any upgrade to the crossover components.
Every speaker should have a 50hr break in period, I've learned that for playing guitar in a band, same situation with guitar amps, the speakers need time to bloom.
Yup. Same experience for me with any bass cab I have ever owned. At time I bought two Aguilar DB 112 ( tweed ) and stacked them. For about a week and half the sounded a bit compressed. But then, out of nowhere ( exact same settings and volume): they exploded with bloom and dynamics. My bass was huge, fat and dynamically punchy. I had to make some adjustments, because my band mates instruments and vocals were getting overwhelmed, LoL
So Erin has just confirmed that the Super Linton have a slightly steeper roll off on the Low Frequencies (compared with the regular Linton) which goes right in line with Kevin's impression that normal Linton have more bass... interesting.
Yeah an F3 of 77hz vs 52hz on the original Lentons. An F3 of 77hz is unacceptable for a speaker this size. What’s wharfedale thinking, possibly that this speaker must be used extensively against a wall.
@@Carl-bd1rfindeed! I've checked a few other frequency curves from Erin's channel and failed to find any with such an high F3 value. Peter Comeau stated there (that's great of him) that they tried to adress all complaints about the regular Linton (including"cant place them close to the wall " as if foam plugs into the backports wouldnt basically solve that) but I guess that they overdone that LFscoop to adress that "problem"
@@m.moreira3969 I believe you’re correct. I was hoping the Super would live up to its name. But that F3 just doesn’t lend itself to $2500 imho. Glad I saw Erin’s review prior to making a purchase.
Some friends of mine performed in your town a couple of weeks ago, they were impressed by the Hoyt Sherman Place, they also enjoyed some ales at The Royal Mile 🙂
The new cross-over and modern construction used by Wharfedale should deliver awesome sounds... that being said, I guess the value of vintage ADS speakers (yours & mine) just increased. I would like to hear a comparison of L780/2 ADS and Wharfedale Super Linton loudspeakers
Break-in for some speakers is real. KLH model 5 need about 10-20 hrs. I have about 30 days on a pair of Tannoy Eaton and the first 2 weeks I thought the drivers were broken in shipping. They are just now beginning to come in and sound beautiful. But bass is still wooly. I wonder if that’s just their character.
Is that the modern or vintage Eatons? I rebuilt a vintage (early 80s) pair earlier this year. To be fair we built new 18mm ply cabinets as the originals were rotted, but the drivers and crossovers remained original as everything measured fine. I any case, the tight, well rounded bass is one of the best things about them, so I wonder if there is indeed an issue with yours. Have you tried different amplification just to see? Of course bass response is highly room dependant.
I'm presently going thru the break-in of some speakers from a very highly regarded 'boutique' manufacturer and I actually hated them at first. Still don't know if I'm gonna keep them after the recommended 100 hours as that's when I'll A/B them with my older, far cheap speakers. If they're only a bit better than my originals then they are going back.
I was very glad to get my CV SL-15s Herb Alperts music as well as Chopin n Beethoven is SO Awsome. Picked up a pair of Magnavox 3 ways ported 60 lbs 38 inches high very good sound.
Great review,what is your music source?are you talking tidal hi res or quobuzz,these speakers look great and im wondering what would they sound like with a good quality turntable and some vinyl
Great channel….question, I noticed your Alesis monitors in the background (I have a set sitting around) what’s your thoughts and what do you use them for. Also, can they be incorporated into a home theater at any point?
Ummm, a couple of days of 24hr pink noise should speed break in. Especially if you work, leave them on while you're gone. Being retired I am always around but the garage system can break them in in no time.
I had some Wharfedale studio monitors from the late 1960s that were some of the best speakers I ever had. I gave them to my girlfriend at the time who was a well known musician. Her home system was junk and need a decent system when working on her record. The only time I have ever seen them is in a photo of the Abbey Road Studio and photos of David Gilmores house in the 70's. . Is there any historical info on the brand.
I've never had a speaker that needed braking in though I can get why they might do so. But till I hear one that does improve over time I'll file that thought as a possibly maybe.
Kevin, I totally enjoy your videos. I recently purchased your acrylic plater. Very nice. My question is, does the shiny side point up, or does the flat side point up, or does it simply not matter? 🤔
Wow those SL look great. I’m thinking break in is for real, too. Besides some dialing-in, my RP-600M II took some time to come alive. Now I’m blown away each time I listen to them. Especially for their size and reasonable price. Wharfedale is definitely on the list for the future. I love the Elysian 2 in piano walnut- gorgeous. These would be a stretch, but a boy can dream. That is, unless Kevin ever decides to put the XRT-20 w/the XR top hat up for sale 😮 No rush…Got to save up. Let us know if you hear any Wharfedale’s with AMT tweeters at the upcoming audio show…🍻
More robust cabinetry (bracing?), higher quality crossover hardware, and better absorbent material inside? Sounds like Wharfedale is reacting to the G-R research review. Maybe.
@@DrumsTillDeath74 What are you banging on about? I never suggested that the Chinese weren't interested in western culture, and IAG employ some of the best Western engineers to design their gear. But if you believe that they give a toss what GR and others say about their products, which sell like hot cakes without their interventions then you're deluded. The Linton is a cheap speaker and is very well liked and designed by Peter Comeau. To mass produce it with all the cobblers that GR claims improves it would add so much cost to the design that it would not be profitable. If people want to 'upgrade' their speakers with fancy parts then good for them as it's all knowledge but I doubt that many actually understand what they are doing or can ever solder a joint properly. The whole process is based on the say of one man who in my experience has no time for any opinion but his own.
Here’s my opinion. I never really believed in break-in period. Maybe some speakers need them more than others for whatever reason. However, when I bought my Lintons the tweeter sounded like CRAP and was SUPER grainy and distorted. Literally only after 10-20yrs of listening it all went away and even my girlfriend noticed. This was the first time ever I truly believed there is a break in period, some more than others.
Not gonna lie, I was a bit surprised to learn that the "break-in" concept in the context of speaker performance, had just recently become widely embraced within audio circles!?!? Any thing that is taking up space in this material realm, as we understand it to be, will encounter some type of entropy. In other words, like a favorite pair of jeans, why wouldn't they take some time to form to you comfortably?? Audiophiles know way more than me, but somehow this escaped a portion of their ranks?? .
My Lintons took ages to break in. We use them low volume for every day TV and movies. I took them to the listening room after about a year and gave them a workout, they’ve sounded exponentially better ever since. It’s very real.
Interesting, i’ve had my lintons for a year now and I also listen at lower volumes and everyday tv. Are how long they’ve been used irrelevant when breaking them in or is it down to how loud they are played?
you need to Take them to speaker trainer place where they get brake in , they are all over the US.
I can give you the address if you like
@@jamesjames5715 thanks but from the uk haha
oh just run them for a few days on a 40-50hz sign wave. The materials will relax much more quickly. All the way up to the first crossover point will improve very fast. I haven't tried these, but every other driver I've run into will break-in that way in about 72hrs.
You will have to update us in a later video in terms of the Super Lintons breaking in
I agree and would be interested to to hear an update. If I understand what is being said, ‘I’m converted’ is based on the assumption that the bass will improve significantly over some time. If it doesn’t, then the supers just have less bass?
You need to do a double-blind test between brand new speakers and “broken-in” speakers. Listen to them in the same sitting so time and your ears getting used to the sound of the speakers over a period of months aren’t a factor.
Could be totally doable with the set that's been on the floor breaking in and then a new pair someone buys that allows you to take them out at the shop and do that very thing ❤
Let me know so I can be there 😉
That's a great idea! I honestly never thought of that. Some consumers don't believe in break-in. I guess it's a YMMV situation?
@@Zimmy_1981 No, some people DO "believe" in it, but have no proof of their belief. A belief, is something you think but have no concrete evidence of, nor can prove, nor can measurements back it up. So those say there is no break in, have no beliefs....
@@kevintomb make sense, kinda expanded on what I typed. Do u "believe" in it? I personally had experience with it, but as u correctly typed: no tangible evidence as proof
100% agree. Why do people claim that speakers always sound better after being broken in? Why don't they ever sound worse?
Not sure about capacitor break in. I buy the idea that drivers loosen up over 24 hrs or so.
Having said that, crossover caps are very important. I just replaced the original caps on a pair of original Linton 3xp. Before they sounded shrill and harsh. After putting in new high quality polycaps they were smooth and sweet. Measuring the old caps their capacitance measured significantly high, which will have affected the frequency response. Now this indicates that the chemical composition of the electrolyte has changed, but over 50 years, not a few months.
PS. I also lined the cabinets with high quality acoustic wool, so that will also have helped.
I'll just chime in with this - Crossover saturation is a thing that absolutely occurs with certain speakers with quality crossovers. My speakers, which have very big and robust crossover components how very high quality - they sound dark, muffled and uncontrolled if they have been unplugged for a week or so. It's simply astonishing how much they transform in only 20-30min from 0. My dad couldn't believe his ears, but he had not choice but to, because he could not deny reality as it unfolded in front of him.
It goes from sounding near-broken to amazing in 30min, which is at least what they need to open up and start sounding like they should, and it only improves with more time. Capacitors are like batteries storing energy, it makes sense for them to "charge up" for a bit if they have been drained.
@@phetmoz hmm. I'm using a pair of old signet SL280EX right now. I might swap out the crossover components and see what happens. Its known these speakers can't really keep it together over 80db or so. I have to wonder how much of that is a) original capacitor and coil selection b) age of the capacitors. Cheers.
Wharfedale was killing it over a half a century ago, but I don't think a lot of people realized it back then.. I still have a working pair of Rosedale's that have only had crossover cap changes,
and are still great speakers that haven't deteriorated.🙏
I'm like you, if
the speakers
are good, then they're good; doesn't matter
if they're old or new..
I love the Linton line, It reminds me of what a modern ADS could be. The Lintons pull off the vintage meets modern look perfectly and will pair great with our vintage receiver / integrated / separates.. Cant wait to hear Lintons in person, Wharfdale is defintely on a role.
I just learned Badfinger's Baby Blue on guitar with the leads. Loved listening to it through my Leak gear and my Wharfdale Lintons. I also have a pair of '65 Wharfedale W60s that I restored, rebuilt the crossovers, put new cream linen grill cloth to replace the old stained plasticized original. That was a lot of work to do. Great review.
I have a pair of Linton W20s hooked to my Harman Kardon 430 twin
They’re tiny but when people come over and listen to em they think I’m hiding a different set of speakers mostly due to the bass!
I have the Import Album of Badfinger with Baby Blue on it. Maybe Kevin from Skylabs is listening to an American pressing? My Album is a wonderful recording and the music sounds great through my Advent Loudspeakers. But then everything sounds great through my Advents. 😊 I also have a pair of vintage Wharfedale's in solid walnut cabinets. Like fine furniture. 14" inch Woofers with (2) tweeters. One of the tweeters lights up purple in the center when powered up. I've never seen any other speakers do that. Being vintage, they still sound great and can actually handle the power of my 400 watt Phase Linear Amplifier.
Peter Comeau has been a top UK designer for decades.
His pioneering work on loudspeaker cabinets is well documented.
Right now, I'd put him in the very top echelon of global loudspeaker designers.
The benefits of a 3 way are well known, especially if you can have 1 unit to cover the midrange.
The difficulties of the crossover design are also well known, but if anyone can design a well integrated 3 way, he can.
So the crossover design is sort of the make or break difficult part of the process? Makes sense to me to have a speaker for each range, with the no replacement for displacement etc
I bid on a pair of vintage floor model Wharfedale speakers (early 1970's speakers?) at a home auction about 20 years ago and won. I had no idea of their history. They're solid walnut cabinets, 24" inches in height, 21" inches across and 13" inches deep, with walnut engraved molding all around the cloth speaker covers. They look like high end furniture. 14" Woofers with (2) tweeters, of which one of the tweeters lights up purple in the center while powered up. Beautiful in looks with exquisite sound and can handle my 400 Watt Phase Linear Amp. Priceless.
Love Wharfedale!
2 things, with the first calling the bluff, and the second getting real:
1) That thing about breaking in "capacitors" is indeed questionable, and most likely horse-hockey! As far as I know, the only kind of capacitor that "breaks in" are old-style oil caps, that gradually become leaky and thus change their values, and eventually fail.
2) HOWEVER, having had several new speakers over many years, and also re-rimming several pairs for a friend, the actual speaker chassis definitely need a break-in period to loosen up the new rims/surrounds outside (new and re-rimmed) and initially also the spider membranes inside. The sound becomes more mellow, gains impact, loses any sort of metallic harshness, opens up, and needs a bit less power. The sound becomes more voluminous, de-compresses, and the spectrum widens for a fuller, richer sound.
From what I have learned, break-in for speakers is way more mechanical than electrical involving the crossovers. The spiders and even the surrounds need to be worked to break-in and will become less stiff allowing faster movement. Also the voice coils go through heating and cooling and will slightly change in size and slightly change their relationship to the magnet structure. All of which will change how a speaker sounds over time. Sadly, depending on the use and quality of the parts, these changes can keep happening over the life of the speaker, for the worse or better.
Any changes in capacitors by comparison I think are much much more slight.
I was going to add a comment about this but you've already covered it. Fresh from manufacture all the parts of a speaker have mechanical stresses due to the molding and assembly processes which need to be 'relaxed'. The majority of this happens within a few weeks of use, but speakers will keep on getting better over the first six months of use. Also note that, straight out of the box, temperature changes will upset the performance until all the parts have equalised to room temperature which takes about 24 hours.
This comment needs more love. But it would appear the consumer only values their merchant if they treat then like a bloody t*mp*n. At least that's what it would appear from the actions of 85% of companies operating post-corona.
I have the Wharfedale Diamond 225's and they are great. I have them hooked to my SX-828 and it sounds great. They have excellent base for their size.
Wow well love ads❤ how funny
Bass...lol
I have my Lintons hooked up to an SX-828. Pure listening heaven! IMHO, the SX-828 is the next best Pioneer receiver to the SX-1010...
@@donalddougherty5016 I've never heard the SX-1010, but others have said that it was a great receiver. I have owned a SX-780 , Marantz 2238B, Realistic STA 2000, and a QX-949 and have kept the SX-828, as I like it the best.
Hit them hard with some power right out of the box. Being new, how they are initially used, without abusing them, determines their lifespan. As a test track, Im usually a hard rock guy, I put Hidden places by Karunesh on to check detail and separation. I stumbled upon that track by accident and was blown away. It has great hieght, width and depth with separation that is unreal. Enjoy the new kit. Its always fun to see the capabilities of new gear.
I love my Lintons. I stopped watching the video once he said they sound better than the Super Lintons, I don't want to give myself any excuse to upgrade.
@@davidmmontgomery I been there before when it concerned power amps. 100 watt SAE 2922 to a 200 watt Carver M-400.
He says they're bassier. That's a world away from sounding better, unless bass is the most important thing to you.
@@davidmmontgomery
I don't consider this video as a good review.
No break in time. Also, the Super Linton is designed to be placed near(er) to a wall, which will emphasize the lower end.
Check Erin's Audio Corner for a more thorough review of the 'regular' Linton 85 and the new Super Linton loudspeakers.
lol i bought the linton heritage mostly due to this channel. I stopped the video there as well. I imagine it's marginally different, I'm not trying to get FOMO right now because I love mine
I just my Wharfdale w30 from years ago, so lovely to see Wharfedale are still around ,incredible ,hopefully one pay visit to store sometime ,might be tempted buy Cambridge evo one speaker,love the channel ,Chris DFW TX🇬🇧
I never really thought that "break in" was something I would hear. About six years ago I picked up some Wharfedale Diamonds (model ?)... I didn't like them much, moved them to the bedroom. Some months later I was listening to them, and noticed they sounded really quite good. I don't even have good hearing, but the change over time was very noticeable.
I bought a pair of brand new JBL 4312Gs a couple of years ago. They sounded thin and lifeless for a good while. I got home from work one day and gave them a workout. They opened up and begged for more . I love my JBLs.🎉
you're more or less right with not breaking-in the speakers - it's more a getting used to the sound over a period of time. i saw measurements of the new super lintons and they have less pronounces bass in the lower octaves. what you are hearing is right and by design to put the speaker closer to a wall and gain some room bass. you could set the speakers up in a room and place them 1 feet from the front wall to see how the bass is different on the two models. cheers
Love the Wharfedales. I would like to hear some Lintons. I don't know a lot about the different models but on a whim I bought a gently used set of diamond 225's and they sound really nice on a vintage Nikko nr815 receiver as a bedroom dresser system. Those two really have the synergy going on. I just use it when gettiing ready to go to work or folding laundry but it really is pleasing to the ears. I'l love to get a larger set someday for one of the other systems.
I saw in a video somewhere, don't recall where that the spiders in speakers when new are very rigid and need to develop micro-fractures in them to achieve full flexibility and thus the sound will open up and generally get better when "broken in'. For the last set of new speakers I bought, I placed the speakers face to face, wired one out of phase, and let them play for about 48 hours straight at a low-medium volume, occasionally raising and lowering the volume and it made a HUGE difference in their sound as compared to new out of the box sound. As always YMMV
I've used Black Cow by Steely Dan. To me, it has a nice range that helps me while making my decision to purchase. Great video as always... keep them coming!
Yuck
I believe you being impressed with the Diamond 12.2’s bass. I got a new pair of Diamond 225’s and was pleasantly surprised by the bass of these stand mount speakers. I’ve been running them for about six months and still haven’t hooked up my subwoofers yet. I plan to, but I could be happy listening to these without subs. I listen to Blues, Classic Rock, Jazz, Soul, and Outlaw Country. Every genre sounds wonderful on these Wharfedale Diamond 225’s. Plenty of bass and no noticeable effects at crossover. Powering them with a Cambridge Audio CXA-61 Integrated Amp. Great combo, plenty of power and dynamic range. 👍🏼🎶😎
I bet they sound great, but out of my budget. I will keep the vintage speakers I bought 20 years ago and be happy. Love watching your vids.
Of u don't mind, what speakers are u using?
Great time to enjoy the music. Of course I bought the KLH M5s last year but they're broken in and sweet. Happy listening 🎶 Greg
What you think of the model 5? They are on my wish list. No stock available right now.
@WilliamSmart-g3s hello. I've been very pleased with them. I pulled the trigger before they jumped in price by $500. The stands are part of the package too. I missed the 3 way bass reflex design, that is what attracted them to me.
@ . Thanks. Now we’ll see when they come back in stock.
I heard them at a local dealer today. They are very good indeed, more depth & weight. Im factoring in that they need more break in but they are very good already. I own Linton 85 & Imf tsl50 & thats my reference, I fairly certain they would outperform both. Serious consideration with these
I've had my pair of Linton 85s for just over a year now and can confirm that these speakers require not only time but also some power to break in. For a while I had them fed by a 45 wpc KT88 tube amp, and frankly I thought they didn't quite live up to the hype. There was muddiness in the bass, graininess in the mids and haziness in the highs. I was so unimpressed initially as wanting to return them during the first month, only to be dissuaded from doing so by a friend who said they would need at least 100 hours to break in. The sound improved after a couple of months of sparing use since I didn't get to listen to them for more than 4 hours a week. But the improvement was really marginal. The revelation came only recently when I bought a 138 wpc Class AB solid state amp. Only after a week of hooking up the Lintons' sound underwent an Incredible Hulk-like transformation. The sound stage expanded immensely, and gone were the muddiness, graininess and haziness. Sonic lines became more sharply focused and defined. Finally the overwhelming dynamism astounded me. Conclusion: don't be misled by the Linton's claimed sensitivity of 90dB. These speakers need some real amp power to help them metamophosize.
One of the best channels for audio on TH-cam.. Your laid-back approach and emphasis on not having to spend ridiculous amounts of money in order to get great hi-fi sound makes you and your channel I stand out and an oasis in a sea of shilling and slimy sales marketeers, Only interested in misleading newbies. I also have vintage and new speakers. What I love about vintage speakers it’s just how well they were made and they just keep playing Sounding great 50 years later. I wish you shipped, As I would like to support your business.
What do you have pushing these super Lintons vs the regular Lintons?
I am waiting for the Lenton Super Deluxe model.
I bought a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 12.3 about a year and a half ago. Their sound is fantastic, and truly there is a break in period. One of the requirements by my wife for the living room was a taller thinner pair of speakers to “fit the room.” She got her wish and so did I!
Likewise, the good lady was very happy. Great sound, very good at low volume. I couldn't think of an upgrade that that isn't out of my budget.
I just impulsively bought a pair of 12.2’s last week. Waiting on a new amp before I try them out
Nice!
I left my wife for speaker's well worth it
@ lol
In the DIY community it is well known that a woofer’s Thiele Small parameters change after break in. When a manufacturer lists the TS parameters, they use a broken in woofer to derive them.
Hey Kevin. I hope you can have Peter Comeau on the show one day.
He's been with Wharfedale going way way back. I'd love to hear his take on vintage units vs the stuff of today's world.
Ohh that would be cool!
Break-in (of the cones, probably not of the capacitors) might be a factor but most of what you're hearing in the bass is that they're voiced completely differently in the bass than the OG Lintons. They're designed to be able to be placed against the wall. See Erin's Audio Corner review where he compares the frequency responses--it's completely different. They basically redesigned them to be less boomy and work in more average sized living rooms.
I might need to pick up a pair of those one day. I've been a fan of my w60s for many years. They sound fantastic paired with my Sherwood tube gear.
Kevlar, laminated with mylar does break in. It can also over break in with the mylar being weak link.
For sure, more with some speakers than others. When I first plugged my new DALIs in they sounded like they had a blanket hung in front of 'em. OK, wait and see... about six months in I actually had my back turned but, hold on... turned it up a tad and I could definitely hear the magic starting. A couple/three years in now and they're an entirely different pair of speakers than what they were outta the box, and in every way better. My own opinion is it's mostly the driver surrounds loosening up, but like... that's just my opinion, man... 😎
Thanks as always and cheers to the crew... gotta get your Dad on again!
Regards,
Last year I bought a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.1 speakers and it took a few months before they really started performing well. Now they are excellent.
It’s the same with guitar amps. Upgrade speaker swaps take time to break in. It depends on the type of music you’re playing and how they are being powered. Celestion Golds for example, they really need to be opened up. A few months, they sound in the pocket.
I have a pair of bookshelf Evo 4.1 and I totally heard a difference after a few months of play.
Dad bought a system with wharfedale sand suspension speakers back in the late 60’s. Man, I thought the family was royalty living in sunset park Brooklyn 👍
Thanks for sharing. Yes those smaller Wharfedales sound good. Old Guy HiFi borrowed my Wharfedale 225 for a review he did. Wonderful for the size and investment.
Kevin, as you show the Linton speakers here. I came across a receiver from the 70s named "Wharfedale Linton". But I could not find any information about its model number or specific model name.
Kevin, do you know any concrete model names and model numbers from "wharfedale linton receivers" from the 70s?
Electronics, Cables, Power cords... no break in.
Moving parts ... speakers, phono cartridges, etc. do require break in.
Woofers and Mids do need some time to loosen up as the suspension parts soften and become more flexible with use. For a woofer this can take a few hours. For the mids, generally an hour will do it.
What I do before delivering to a client is to run the speaker on a 10hz 5 watt sine wave for a couple of hours. If you don't want to rattle your entire home, hook the speakers up out of phase and place them facing each other about 6 inches apart... the parts are moving as they need to but the sound is cancelled.
I would love to hear those. Great video my friend.
Thank you, Ed! Did they not have them set up at CAF?
@@skylabsaudioThe only Wharfedales I saw were in a dealer room and not everything was connected. I am try to get with Mofi to see if I can get a review sample. I am not holding my brerath.
Low frequency drivers are really the main drivers which have a suspension break in. It is measurable in Fs on isolated driver measurements, but not really sure how much that impacts other drivers or components. It may be much harder to measure.
There's also the new 3 way super Denton. Peter Comeau is a legendary designer for a reason. He really knows what he's doing. The new Mission 770 is also universally praised by one and all.
in July 2024 I got a pair of Buchardt S400 MK 2, brand new. Buchardt suggests between 50-300 hours of break-in time. I don't know if I've hit 50 hours yet but I love the sound so far. If they get better I'll be ecstatic. Congrats on getting the Wharfedale Super Lintons. Enjoy !!
Yes, caps break in, but that's like the last couple % (maybe). The spider and surround/suspension on a woofer are made of heavier fibres, have large bonds to break up and relax before they come into their own. This is accounted for by manufacturers. No designer evaluates a woofer they order straight off the production line.
Thanks!
Thank you!
That's why I like Paper vs exotic materials, Less Break In!
But no recone later.
I was thinking the same thing. Paper is also easier to drive, great for tube amps.
Is there a bookshelf similar to the Linton with paper drivers?
I ❤️Paper
You know what , lees dampened cabinets can add a nice resonance. Over dampened cabinets can loose the “body” that actually feels and sounds pleasing and less “ driver “ sounding .
I changed the Celestion Greenback in my Vox AC15 with a Celestion Creamback. It took a fair while to burn it in. Sounded ordinary at first, but now it's a different thing from what I had before.
That's really interesting. I demoed a pair of Lintons in my listening room a few years ago and returned them because I thought they sounded "small." Wonder if they just needed to break in....
Peter Comeau, the designer, says the Super Linton are designed to be put 12" from the rear wall to get an in-room response similar to the Linton. He intentionally did this after getting many complaints from people saying the Linton were too boomy. I guess not everyone has the space to pull speakers 3' or more from the rear walls. Maybe they should have simply supplied the Linton with port bungs.
Do you think these (or the "regular" Linton) could adequately fill a 13' x 25' living room with full sound (if a subwoofer was added for the bottom octave)?
Diy speaker builders know about driver break in. Place the speakers in a basement or garage facing eachother closely. Play a reasonably bass heavy playlist on infinite repeat. Then turn of the amp, reverse the polarity on one speaker (+wire on - terminal, - wire on +terminal.....this is totally safe) and turn the amp back on. Because they are wired out of phase the sound isn't very loud now....same principle as noise cancelling headphones. Let it play like this for 2 or 3 days and your speakers are 95% broken in. The change due to break in can be small or rather large depending on driver materials. Some very high end drivers are already broken in at the factory.
Pardon my ignorance but will this do anything for the mid and high range drivers? Or are just the low range drivers affected?
I had a pair of Wharfdale W-60E back in the 70s and, for the size, the weight was unreal(sand!?). I moved up market to Klipsch La Scalas, with my McIntosh power and the still sound amazing
My father spent some time in Singapore in the late 60s and an associate he worked with had an upscale HIFI system with Warfdale speakers, and thats all he spoke about when we would talk stereo. I was 14 at the time and said when I get older, its game on for HiFi. I haven't looked back, good music sound is key. Like Wakeman said in an interview with Rick Beato, music is tactile and we need to go back to the basics to enjoy it. More record and audio dens.
I used to sell audio back in 79 to 82 and I can say for sure there have been huge improvements in speaker design. In fact, some of the speakers that people loved were crap. One that I hate is how reviewers talk about speakers and how orgasmic they are. I wish there was some sort of standard measurement for each of the drivers and the systems as a whole. I own some amazing speakers that are very expensive, but to hear some of these reviews it almost makes me think I'm missing something with my speakers. (which I'm not) Newer speakers have all kinds of advantages over the old ones. New materials and designs can be amazing. When I heard my speakers I immediately heard an improvement in the midrange and the speakers I upgraded from were terrific.
I know everyone has heard of Jensen, but has anyone heard of Janszen Z-300 Vintage 1959 Electrostatic Stereo Speakers? I sold a pair about 25 years ago. There is a pair for sale on Ebay right now.
Speakers do have break-in. My family owned a speaker component manufacturing plant that made stuff for JBL, Eminence, Celestion, Cerwin-Vega, etc. The spider and surround absolutely break in and it's accounted for when samples are tested before finalizing those parts. Some of the newer materials using pure butyl rubber have less break-in.
The Wharfedale Lintons were in serious consideration when looking for a new set of my 'forever' speakers. They lost out to my choice of the Vandersteen 1Ci+ speakers which are a 2-way unit. What sold me on them were a more punch with the bass and a brighter tweeter response. I think I attribute it to my 70 y/o ears. If I had the budget the Wharfedale Dovedale's would have been my choice.
Im looking forward to hearing the Wharfedale Super Linton. I already own the Lintons and for the best speaker for long term listening . They could do with a few more thrills so Im hoping this is where the Super Linton comes in. 😊 . Im not in a serious rush to get these . I await decent reviews and oppertunity to hear them 👍
i didn't hold much stock in the break in "thing" either. Until.....
I got a set of elac dbr 62 bookshelf speakers. i kinda starved them for about 7 mths and then hooked them up with an amp with 100 W more headroom. Bazzinga! 6 mths later, I witnessed an actual sitting down hearing the improvement. I'm a Believer
I never heard of break in for speakers, but if you say it's a thing then it is. I'm curious about the crossover boards. Many electronic circuit products used to have a "burn in" at the factory. It was done since electronics tend to fail early if there are issues and better to do the "burn in" in the factory rather than after you bought the product they are in. It makes sense to me that speakers would sound a bit different as they are exercised if the cone material or surrounds can get a little less stiff with a few hundred thousand cycles. I don't have to worry about it much with my cheapie bookshelf speakers!
Most vintage crossovers used electrolytic caps. They have a definite lifespan. Changes in the electrolyte over time changes capacitance, series resistance and voltage leakage. Changes in capacitance in turn alters the crossover frequencies, and thus the frequency response of the speakers. When I buy a vintage pair of speakers I replace the caps with new polycaps and line the cabinets with quality acoustic wool.
Around $30-40 investment and an hour or two of your time and you have a transformed sound. Likely the quality of components you have put in exceeds that of most modern speakers crossovers.
I just purchased a pair of Linton 3XP from a junk shop for £40 in the UK. About an hour's work on the internals, some sanding and preparation of the cabinets with a cheap rotary sander and wire wool, a couple of coats of Teak Oil and I have a beautiful pair of speakers which rival the sound of many mid budget modern speakers and look much better.
Total cost £70. Skill level minimal. You don't even need to solder if you don't want to. You can use crimp connections instead.
I advise anyone with a bit of time to give it a go.
@@jimfarrell4635 Thanks for the info. I wish I knew what I know now about vintage speakers (still just a little) because the Dynaco A25's I gave to my son stopped working and they were sold on to someone who took the challenge. I could possibly have saved them. After all they were only 50+ years old! I only have just so much space for "stuff".
Compared to the KLH Model 5(modern), which would you prefer...???
I own a pair of KLF Model 5, but these are still on my list...
Hey Kevin. Always looking for new content of your videos. I know there are tons of vintage speakers but I want to know if you have ever heard EV-Fours, if yes what are your thoughts of them thanks.
I can't speak for speakers, since my current set of speakers belonged to my late best friend, and he used them a lot. However, headphones need to be broken in. I used to dislike the Sennheiser HD650s. They always sounded awful at high end shows, and that's because reps always bring, as they should, new phones for display. Then I bought a pair, and regretted it (the price was right), but after three weeks they became awesome. I had the same experience back in the 90s with a pair of Stax electret phones.
I noticed this with my Lintons as well. I bought them 2021, and at first was only semi-impressed. Three years on, and the bass has just expanded greatly. Overall, the speakers just sound better. At the time (2021) the "break-in" theory wasn't yet a thing. I'm glad to see this confirmed by an objective listener, one who at first didn't believe that they sound better with use.
There was no break-in theory in 2021?
That's a good-looking speaker.
You know Kevin it would be interesting if someone would record with an SPL and video the first listening and every few days update till that change occurs and shows this progression if it happens in steps or if it's just an immediate occurrence. I would also be interested in seeing if there is any upgrade to the crossover components.
Every speaker should have a 50hr break in period, I've learned that for playing guitar in a band, same situation with guitar amps, the speakers need time to bloom.
Yup. Same experience for me with any bass cab I have ever owned.
At time I bought two Aguilar DB 112 ( tweed ) and stacked them.
For about a week and half the sounded a bit compressed.
But then, out of nowhere ( exact same settings and volume): they exploded with bloom and dynamics.
My bass was huge, fat and dynamically punchy.
I had to make some adjustments, because my band mates instruments and vocals were getting overwhelmed, LoL
And 50 hrs is still on the shorter side.
So Erin has just confirmed that the Super Linton have a slightly steeper roll off on the Low Frequencies (compared with the regular Linton) which goes right in line with Kevin's impression that normal Linton have more bass... interesting.
Curious to see what the Supers will be like after a bunch of break-in.
Yeah an F3 of 77hz vs 52hz on the original Lentons.
An F3 of 77hz is unacceptable for a speaker this size. What’s wharfedale thinking, possibly that this speaker must be used extensively against a wall.
@@Carl-bd1rfindeed! I've checked a few other frequency curves from Erin's channel and failed to find any with such an high F3 value. Peter Comeau stated there (that's great of him) that they tried to adress all complaints about the regular Linton (including"cant place them close to the wall " as if foam plugs into the backports wouldnt basically solve that) but I guess that they overdone that LFscoop to adress that "problem"
@@Carl-bd1rfor in sort: they created a Linton for those who didn't like the Linton... it seems:)
@@m.moreira3969
I believe you’re correct.
I was hoping the Super would live up to its name. But that F3 just doesn’t lend itself to $2500 imho. Glad I saw Erin’s review prior to making a purchase.
It would be interesting to compare a brand new set of each right out of the box. Nice video as always.
Some friends of mine performed in your town a couple of weeks ago, they were impressed by the Hoyt Sherman Place, they also enjoyed some ales at The Royal Mile 🙂
The new cross-over and modern construction used by Wharfedale should deliver awesome sounds... that being said, I guess the value of vintage ADS speakers (yours & mine) just increased.
I would like to hear a comparison of L780/2 ADS and Wharfedale Super Linton loudspeakers
Break-in for some speakers is real. KLH model 5 need about 10-20 hrs. I have about 30 days on a pair of Tannoy Eaton and the first 2 weeks I thought the drivers were broken in shipping. They are just now beginning to come in and sound beautiful. But bass is still wooly. I wonder if that’s just their character.
Is that the modern or vintage Eatons? I rebuilt a vintage (early 80s) pair earlier this year. To be fair we built new 18mm ply cabinets as the originals were rotted, but the drivers and crossovers remained original as everything measured fine.
I any case, the tight, well rounded bass is one of the best things about them, so I wonder if there is indeed an issue with yours. Have you tried different amplification just to see?
Of course bass response is highly room dependant.
I'm presently going thru the break-in of some speakers from a very highly regarded 'boutique' manufacturer and I actually hated them at first. Still don't know if I'm gonna keep them after the recommended 100 hours as that's when I'll A/B them with my older, far cheap speakers. If they're only a bit better than my originals then they are going back.
I was very glad to get my CV SL-15s Herb Alperts music as well as Chopin n Beethoven is SO Awsome. Picked up a pair of Magnavox 3 ways ported 60 lbs 38 inches high very good sound.
I had Linton 2's.
Odd cone tweeter.
First stereo in the 1970's.
Great review,what is your music source?are you talking tidal hi res or quobuzz,these speakers look great and im wondering what would they sound like with a good quality turntable and some vinyl
Great channel….question, I noticed your Alesis monitors in the background (I have a set sitting around) what’s your thoughts and what do you use them for. Also, can they be incorporated into a home theater at any point?
Would like to purchase some of them..
Ummm, a couple of days of 24hr pink noise should speed break in. Especially if you work, leave them on while you're gone. Being retired I am always around but the garage system can break them in in no time.
How do these compare to the KLH Model 5's?
how loud do you need the play to break in. Like moderate or low volume over a period? Many thanks.
I had some Wharfedale studio monitors from the late 1960s that were some of the best speakers I ever had. I gave them to my girlfriend at the time who was a well known musician. Her home system was junk and need a decent system when working on her record. The only time I have ever seen them is in a photo of the Abbey Road Studio and photos of David Gilmores house in the 70's. . Is there any historical info on the brand.
The Super Lintons indeed have less bass than the Lintons. Shelved down for near wall placement. And we need a review of those Diamond 12.2s. :)
Where I am the Diamonds sell for about the same as to the Evo4’s and was wondering how they would compare.
I've never had a speaker that needed braking in though I can get why they might do so. But till I hear one that does improve over time I'll file that thought as a possibly maybe.
Kevin, I totally enjoy your videos. I recently purchased your acrylic plater. Very nice. My question is, does the shiny side point up, or does the flat side point up, or does it simply not matter? 🤔
Shiny side up =)
Wow those SL look great. I’m thinking break in is for real, too. Besides some dialing-in, my RP-600M II took some time to come alive. Now I’m blown away each time I listen to them. Especially for their size and reasonable price. Wharfedale is definitely on the list for the future. I love the Elysian 2 in piano walnut- gorgeous. These would be a stretch, but a boy can dream. That is, unless Kevin ever decides to put the XRT-20 w/the XR top hat up for sale 😮 No rush…Got to save up. Let us know if you hear any Wharfedale’s with AMT tweeters at the upcoming audio show…🍻
I'm can't decide on purchasing either the Diamond 12.0 or the Diamond 12.2. Any suggestions?
Did you review the Dovedale? Dovedale vs Cornwall IV? What do you think.
What is the physics associated with "opening up?"
I have the Diamond 12.2 and really like them
More robust cabinetry (bracing?), higher quality crossover hardware, and better absorbent material inside? Sounds like Wharfedale is reacting to the G-R research review. Maybe.
I doubt IAG/ Wharfedale give a toss what GR thinks.
@@DrumsTillDeath74 What are you banging on about? I never suggested that the Chinese weren't interested in western culture, and IAG employ some of the best Western engineers to design their gear. But if you believe that they give a toss what GR and others say about their products, which sell like hot cakes without their interventions then you're deluded. The Linton is a cheap speaker and is very well liked and designed by Peter Comeau. To mass produce it with all the cobblers that GR claims improves it would add so much cost to the design that it would not be profitable. If people want to 'upgrade' their speakers with fancy parts then good for them as it's all knowledge but I doubt that many actually understand what they are doing or can ever solder a joint properly. The whole process is based on the say of one man who in my experience has no time for any opinion but his own.
Here’s my opinion. I never really believed in break-in period. Maybe some speakers need them more than others for whatever reason.
However, when I bought my Lintons the tweeter sounded like CRAP and was SUPER grainy and distorted. Literally only after 10-20yrs of listening it all went away and even my girlfriend noticed.
This was the first time ever I truly believed there is a break in period, some more than others.
Are you quite serious with the "after 10-20 YEARS of listening..." or did you mean hours?
Would the super Linton’s pair well with the Yamaha CR 800?
Not gonna lie, I was a bit surprised to learn that the "break-in" concept in the context of speaker performance, had just recently become widely embraced within audio circles!?!?
Any thing that is taking up space in this material realm, as we understand it to be, will encounter some type of entropy. In other words, like a favorite pair of jeans, why wouldn't they take some time to form to you comfortably?? Audiophiles know way more than me, but somehow this escaped a portion of their ranks?? .
Turn it loud......11 please...now on with the program!
Thanks Kevin...