I would like to see a teardown of a peice of test gear while sat next to one of the designers. It would be interesting to get clarification on some of the things dave cant answer.
They also have a 100MHz version @ $500, would be interesting to see what the actual bandwidth difference is between the two. I doubt there is any difference in the frontend design.
There appears to be a short between pin 6 and 7 on U32, it's on about time 10:15. Some of the solder work seems to be How Do You Do, thumbs left right on this one Dave.
+Gaurav Chaudhary It's a short between Pin 6 - 1B4 buffer input and Pin 7 - Vccb Power on B side of chip, if that's true then that's gotta hurt something.
8:37 The Blackfin are used for two reasons, low cost and the abundance of skills in china for that platform (They trade IP between companies as well), the BlackFin (in today's standards) is the cheapest high efficiency fixed point 32bit DSP. I own a BF533 board and SHARC really amazing stuff. Your`e right assuming its the processor used for the Display UI and Management. The processor architecture was a collaboration between INTEL and Analogue Devices.
Another osciloscope teardown. Cool. Now I can apply to service osciloscopes. "What are your qualifications for the role?" "Well, I've seen all 800 EEVblog videos, some of them repeatedly." ;-)
+EEVblog Looks like not all caps on the secondary side are Rubycons. the 35V ones are definetely NOT rubys, but I can't see what else they could be. Seems that some of them are also Lelon... PS: nothing wrong with saving a penny on the primary cap. They are most likely the last things to fail. Well at least when your electrical grid is decent and they don't get many surges...
CowLunch it "glues" the screw to the thread. This makes the screw immune to vibrations, so it can't loosen. Consider a CD Drive. The laser and the screws will be glued to the frame, because the laser (etc) will vibrate, which could loosen screws. Or quadcopters. The motors will be screwed on with threadlocker, so it doesn't fall apart after 2 hours of flight^^
That video FPGA might be simply overlaying the menus and text from the CPU over the video coming from the acquisition chip, as for the fast SRAM memory on that one it might be used to build up an intensity gradated image in there.
Maybe they use Rubycon on the secondary side because the capacitors at the secondary side are onder more stress, or maybe the price difference is not that much.
Siglent is pretty neat! I have one and it does a fairly good job. The only issue is when adjusting the level (not the scale on how large) the values tend to shift and idk why.
I often find myself craving a cough to clear my throat when I hear you speak in the lower tones. Maybe it's just me. But otherwise you are a saint for this channel. 10/10. Would subscribe again. Would recommend at parties.
+the real illuminati Can't be a bomb, it's counting the correct way!!!!! Wait a minute, I wonder why the teacher in the original scenario didn't work that out...... ;)
Well atleast they didn't use capxon. I honestly don't see why they would use that one lelon brand input cap unless only a specific attribute(like longevity) was important, and having low ESR didn't matter. Surely that one cap wouldn't make a lot of difference on the manufacturing costs. That was an awfully pretty power supply to be tainted by a single cap for seemingly no reason.
Dave, could you please publish the home-made clock schematics? As it was odd 30 years ago, I wonder what you had used inside... From the milliseconds part, I assume it was not a popular asic job. And remember not to put it into Sagan's school's bag...
Between Siglent 1000X & Rigol DS1054Z, I think built quality (inside & outside) is better in Rigol DS1054Z. Like to know what other viewers think on this aspect.
aw, I'm incredibly sad with that amazing lab of yours you didn't spend 5 or 10 minutes hooking up a spectrum analyzer to that rf test port. even if you didn't have that specific connector I've seen you rig up way worse :) maybe in another video?
+EEVblog I can understand that! I'm just happy you're doing these videos in general! Any guesses as to what it is after checking out the driver chip area? Maybe a way to check the scopes reference at the factory?
you use to see the exact same style of gold QC stickers on old Japanese products from the 80's. I'm guessing that the Chinese think that they're good because the Japanese used them but they're about 3 decades late.
+cralx2k When you upload the video on TH-cam, it processes it and while it does, only 360p version is available. I'm watching it 720p60 right now. Also your HTML5 player may cause the problem.
You can see where they spaced out the top V dies in the press brake too much to bend the last sides of the shield up. That's pretty sloppy but I guess nobody is supposed to see it. Except us :)
+DjResR Status LEDs to show the firmware is running in certain state. a.k.a heartbeat LED. Usually for development, and often left off the BOM for production to save cost.
+Maximilian “Interprete” Mustermann Looks like a bomb to me! Run! (jk - this is a reference to the home-made clock bomb scare, but then I thought I'd better add this note for those not up on the news)
I've noticed that many of these new scopes have USB ports in the front. Can they be used to load games on like DOOM. I saw a video on here where someone was playing Ultimate Doom on a scope but this scope ran a stripped down version of windows. Windows CE I believe. Would it be possible to display HD video on the screen?
With the prices they charge, why can't they just load these scopes with like 4-8GB of RAM? With 4GB+ of RAM, wouldn't it help make it more useful (more samples stored, etc.)
+Razor2048 You really need very, very fast memory and that doesn't come cheap. That's the reason modern CPU don't have GBs of cache, fast memory is expensive.
+Gordon Freeman they can probably stuff some dual or triple channel DDR4 RAM in there. then have it save as much as it can within its processing time (make it so RAM is not a bottleneck), then for what is remaining, use that for more memory hard processing tasks, or give it support for m.2 SSDs, and then have it use a file system like ZFS. For an oscilloscope, this will allow for more functionality, e.g., long term data logging in the scope, and probably running a few extra applications. If possible, they can also have the scope do more while on standby, e.g., function as a backup SQL server.
Razor2048 Memory is not everything for an oscilloscope. Pretty much everything has to be made specifically for an oscilloscope, you can't use your average memory and be done with it.
This is an old conversation, but for whatever it's worth, I think he may have been misreading the RAM sizes in this video. I think they're bigger than what he said (but they're certainly not in the GB range). I'm definitely not an EE, but I've looked at a lot of RAM IC datasheets, mainly when working with PCs and video cards and such. The 25ns SRAM he looked at appears to be marked as 512K addresses storing 18 bits each, making it a bit over 1MB in size using the convention of 8bits=1byte. Not 128KB. At 10:00, there's a 64MB (32Mx16-bit) Micron PC133 CL3 SDRAM chip. Those same chips can be used in rows of 4 on a late 128MB (single sided) or 256MB (double sided) SDRAM module for PCs. At 13:00, that appears to be a 128MB (64M locations of 16-bits) DDR3 IC. According to the datasheet, the "-15" suffix means it's speed is rated 1333 CL10. That datasheet's usage of the term "Meg" is confusing, but I don't think they meant "megabit" there. The 64Mx16 = 128MB interpretation is confirmed by the top line of the datasheet, which gives the capacity as 1Gb. So it looks like there's ~1MB of fast 18-bit SRAM, 128MB of 16-bit DDR3-1333, and 64MB of 16-bit PC133. There could be another DDR3 on the other side of the PCB in which case the size and bus width would double, but I suspect it's just the one. I don't know about that weird 18-bit SRAM, but both of the DRAM components look like commodity tech. I guess the PC133 is for less demanding functions performed in that other area of the board. I think the advertised sample memory refers to the number of samples it can store and keep indexed, not the literal size of the RAM.
The finnish ives me the impression that this is a pre-release unit that there sales force have pushed to get sent out to the distributors to wet peoples appetites, and get the pre-orders on the books.
Look @17:37: Capacitor C742. How the hell could they not look for crap like that?! Edit: Doh. He even captioned it later in the video. Should've watched the whole video before commenting lol.
Whats wrong with the choice of Lelon capacitors. It's a Chinese Oscilloscope producer using Chinese capacitors. Lelon Electronics Corp, producers only capacitors since 1976. Surely they are experts in the field.
How to get free electronics componets: buy something with warrenty void if removed, remove the sticker carfuly, desolder stuff and replace high quality stuff with cheap ass chiense stuff, short something and return it and do it again till your are in jail
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You could always hook up to the FPGA JTAG connector and do a device scan to see what FPGA it is
I would like to see a teardown of a peice of test gear while sat next to one of the designers. It would be interesting to get clarification on some of the things dave cant answer.
Cool clock, Dave.
+MrPolymath0 He may have showed that to his teachers in the 80s. Apparently you shouldn't do that in today's world.
+MrPolymath0 It is not a clock. It is a bomb :)
+MrPolymath0 Where's my invite?
+MrPolymath0 I wan`t a teardown of it!
+Patryk Darasz I think he did that in one of his live shows.
Thanks for the quick tour of the inside.
It looks good, maybe time for one more scope.
They also have a 100MHz version @ $500, would be interesting to see what the actual bandwidth difference is between the two. I doubt there is any difference in the frontend design.
There appears to be a short between pin 6 and 7 on U32, it's on about time 10:15. Some of the solder work seems to be How Do You Do, thumbs left right on this one Dave.
+T Komoski a solder ball is sitting with C742 at 17:45. they haven't cleaned the board properly
Gaurav Chaudhary No look at time 10:15 and see a possible short on U32 pins 6 & 7
+T Komoski yes there is solder bridge U32 pins 6 & 7
+Gaurav Chaudhary It's a short between Pin 6 - 1B4 buffer input and Pin 7 - Vccb Power on B side of chip, if that's true then that's gotta hurt something.
+T Komoski interesting catch!
8:37 The Blackfin are used for two reasons, low cost and the abundance of skills in china for that platform (They trade IP between companies as well), the BlackFin (in today's standards) is the cheapest high efficiency fixed point 32bit DSP. I own a BF533 board and SHARC really amazing stuff. Your`e right assuming its the processor used for the Display UI and Management.
The processor architecture was a collaboration between INTEL and Analogue Devices.
+Yaghiyah Brenner The skills things makes sense.
Another osciloscope teardown. Cool. Now I can apply to service osciloscopes. "What are your qualifications for the role?" "Well, I've seen all 800 EEVblog videos, some of them repeatedly." ;-)
Congratulations for the #800!
Should've written your name inside. I kinda like this scope, might have to get one. I mostly do audio so it's plenty good for that.
Thanks for the schematics when discuss parts eg. Micron RAM. Always too lazy to check datasheets myself...
+EEVblog
Looks like not all caps on the secondary side are Rubycons.
the 35V ones are definetely NOT rubys, but I can't see what else they could be.
Seems that some of them are also Lelon...
PS: nothing wrong with saving a penny on the primary cap. They are most likely the last things to fail. Well at least when your electrical grid is decent and they don't get many surges...
Your sure thats a clock and not a bomb?
I'm pretty sure that state diagram at 13:20 can be used for human transmutation.
+Infinite Zero some guy got carried away drawing circles
A Haiku
Silly engineer
Why do you disassemble
that oscilloscope
+Jarrod P
Yolo
Yolo
yolo.
I think it is because you can have idea about its built-quality by opening the device.
You get a Thumbs Up for the Proper Reference to Muntz! With a photo yet! Dave, you surprised me with that one; I cannot believe you knew of him!
Threadlocker practically guarantees metal inserts because it uses a metal-ion reaction, binding two metals together
+TheTrueM3ga What is that stuff? I have seen it on many screws but it doesn't seem to do anything? Dispense with the facts! :P
CowLunch it "glues" the screw to the thread. This makes the screw immune to vibrations, so it can't loosen. Consider a CD Drive. The laser and the screws will be glued to the frame, because the laser (etc) will vibrate, which could loosen screws.
Or quadcopters. The motors will be screwed on with threadlocker, so it doesn't fall apart after 2 hours of flight^^
Thanks Dave, you sly old fox, was looking forward to this!
Also, Happy 800th Episode!
Very neat unit dave :-)
Im supprised how minimal it is, considering all it does.
That video FPGA might be simply overlaying the menus and text from the CPU over the video coming from the acquisition chip, as for the fast SRAM memory on that one it might be used to build up an intensity gradated image in there.
@15:28 and @18:56, there is a bunch of NEC UD2-4-5NU relays
I love how you peeled off the tamper sticker on a video Siglent will see. Classic Dave :D
Maybe they use Rubycon on the secondary side because the capacitors at the secondary side are onder more stress, or maybe the price difference is not that much.
Seems like Siglent has potential!
Siglent is pretty neat!
I have one and it does a fairly good job.
The only issue is when adjusting the level (not the scale on how large) the values tend to shift and idk why.
I often find myself craving a cough to clear my throat when I hear you speak in the lower tones. Maybe it's just me. But otherwise you are a saint for this channel. 10/10. Would subscribe again. Would recommend at parties.
6:24 I guess it is not the completely finished and polished version.
Lovely work Dave
btw be carful you got a bomb near the scope
+the real illuminati judging by Dave's skin color I can reassure you that it's a knife or a dingo.
+svampebob007 That's quite dark humour you got there...
+the real illuminati Can't be a bomb, it's counting the correct way!!!!! Wait a minute, I wonder why the teacher in the original scenario didn't work that out...... ;)
For a Siglent, its not half bad. The Rigol is still the better built cheap scope.
18:34 - look at the solder blob near/under C742 capacitor, looks like some disaster is waiting just behind the corner :)
+Piotr Szarański Ouch, 10 seconds later Dave just saw it in his video :(
Thanks and Recommended for all
There should be a Wave Gen on bottom side, shouldn't it? One reason to remove the flat flex cables and check if it is populated ;)
Oups, at 18:11 there is a nice soldering problem on the bottom of C742, look at that nice ball of solder :)
Well atleast they didn't use capxon. I honestly don't see why they would use that one lelon brand input cap unless only a specific attribute(like longevity) was important, and having low ESR didn't matter. Surely that one cap wouldn't make a lot of difference on the manufacturing costs.
That was an awfully pretty power supply to be tainted by a single cap for seemingly no reason.
Dave,
could you please publish the home-made clock schematics? As it was odd 30 years ago, I wonder what you had used inside... From the milliseconds part, I assume it was not a popular asic job.
And remember not to put it into Sagan's school's bag...
Between Siglent 1000X & Rigol DS1054Z, I think built quality (inside & outside) is better in Rigol DS1054Z. Like to know what other viewers think on this aspect.
i wouldn't be so quick to diss that lelon brand cap, i haven't seen one that's failed yet, and i've seen some failed caps
Love the Schramart stuff
aw, I'm incredibly sad with that amazing lab of yours you didn't spend 5 or 10 minutes hooking up a spectrum analyzer to that rf test port. even if you didn't have that specific connector I've seen you rig up way worse :) maybe in another video?
+Jon Sands I'm a lazy sod
+EEVblog Yes I see that, you can't even check if there is a short on U32.
+T Komoski
What's your problem? (see my last comment to you) If you don't like Daves' approach why are you here?
+EEVblog I can understand that! I'm just happy you're doing these videos in general! Any guesses as to what it is after checking out the driver chip area? Maybe a way to check the scopes reference at the factory?
you use to see the exact same style of gold QC stickers on old Japanese products from the 80's. I'm guessing that the Chinese think that they're good because the Japanese used them but they're about 3 decades late.
+cralx2k When you upload the video on TH-cam, it processes it and while it does, only 360p version is available. I'm watching it 720p60 right now. Also your HTML5 player may cause the problem.
Doubt the fan is controlled. Doesn't look like it, at least.
Excelent vid. Thanks.
You can see where they spaced out the top V dies in the press brake too much to bend the last sides of the shield up. That's pretty sloppy but I guess nobody is supposed to see it. Except us :)
Hi mate.Spoke too soon, you did burst that bubble open. I thought that since it was at a high premium, you would not dear to open it up. Well done.
Threaded brass inserts on a cheap scope yet a $600 Fluke 289 DMM has to use cheap plastic self-tapping threads.
+spikester proof shit happens
factory testing / calibration maybe? J16
Congrats for 800th video. One question, what are the SMD LED's on the PCB for?
+DjResR Status LEDs to show the firmware is running in certain state. a.k.a heartbeat LED.
Usually for development, and often left off the BOM for production to save cost.
+1000 Dave for the Errol Flynn reference.
Nice homemade clock! ;)
+Maximilian “Interprete” Mustermann Looks like a bomb to me! Run! (jk - this is a reference to the home-made clock bomb scare, but then I thought I'd better add this note for those not up on the news)
@ 17:21 above the text C742 there is a solder ball
+Adverse Effects Look at time 10:15 and see a possible short on U32 pins 6 & 7.
Really wondering what is the output on that mini connector on the board. Any chance of probing it???? :D
can you give us a tear down at the clock
I noticed that some of that gunk was covering the vent holes on the caps. Could that have an effect on long term safety if they ever started to fail?
I've noticed that many of these new scopes have USB ports in the front. Can they be used to load games on like DOOM. I saw a video on here where someone was playing Ultimate Doom on a scope but this scope ran a stripped down version of windows. Windows CE I believe. Would it be possible to display HD video on the screen?
Although the security sticker is intact, but the serial number is exposed. unless Dave had spoofed it ;)
With the prices they charge, why can't they just load these scopes with like 4-8GB of RAM? With 4GB+ of RAM, wouldn't it help make it more useful (more samples stored, etc.)
+Razor2048
You really need very, very fast memory and that doesn't come cheap.
That's the reason modern CPU don't have GBs of cache, fast memory is expensive.
+Gordon Freeman they can probably stuff some dual or triple channel DDR4 RAM in there. then have it save as much as it can within its processing time (make it so RAM is not a bottleneck), then for what is remaining, use that for more memory hard processing tasks, or give it support for m.2 SSDs, and then have it use a file system like ZFS. For an oscilloscope, this will allow for more functionality, e.g., long term data logging in the scope, and probably running a few extra applications.
If possible, they can also have the scope do more while on standby, e.g., function as a backup SQL server.
Filling and addressing more memory would take more cycles probably. Fine balance.
Razor2048
Memory is not everything for an oscilloscope.
Pretty much everything has to be made specifically for an oscilloscope, you can't use your average memory and be done with it.
This is an old conversation, but for whatever it's worth, I think he may have been misreading the RAM sizes in this video. I think they're bigger than what he said (but they're certainly not in the GB range). I'm definitely not an EE, but I've looked at a lot of RAM IC datasheets, mainly when working with PCs and video cards and such.
The 25ns SRAM he looked at appears to be marked as 512K addresses storing 18 bits each, making it a bit over 1MB in size using the convention of 8bits=1byte. Not 128KB.
At 10:00, there's a 64MB (32Mx16-bit) Micron PC133 CL3 SDRAM chip. Those same chips can be used in rows of 4 on a late 128MB (single sided) or 256MB (double sided) SDRAM module for PCs.
At 13:00, that appears to be a 128MB (64M locations of 16-bits) DDR3 IC. According to the datasheet, the "-15" suffix means it's speed is rated 1333 CL10. That datasheet's usage of the term "Meg" is confusing, but I don't think they meant "megabit" there. The 64Mx16 = 128MB interpretation is confirmed by the top line of the datasheet, which gives the capacity as 1Gb.
So it looks like there's ~1MB of fast 18-bit SRAM, 128MB of 16-bit DDR3-1333, and 64MB of 16-bit PC133. There could be another DDR3 on the other side of the PCB in which case the size and bus width would double, but I suspect it's just the one. I don't know about that weird 18-bit SRAM, but both of the DRAM components look like commodity tech.
I guess the PC133 is for less demanding functions performed in that other area of the board.
I think the advertised sample memory refers to the number of samples it can store and keep indexed, not the literal size of the RAM.
There's a ticking bomb at the end!!! Be careful!
Almost shit my pants when the weird sounds started at 26:04... believed i had e pigeon in the room..
lol
What is that black stylus or something that Dave uses for pointing at things?
+Korytnackaseven English Does it have a specific name or is it just a stylus?
David, why video quality is only 360P?
The finnish ives me the impression that this is a pre-release unit that there sales force have pushed to get sent out to the distributors to wet peoples appetites, and get the pre-orders on the books.
shit man... have the game industry pre order cancer infected us already...
With the RF antenna connector, could this unit do some I/Q deciding?
decoding
I'm your first you were on this video
Is there any good hobby grade waveform generators under $400?
XR2206 sample circuit inside the XR2206 IC data sheet. Warning it is self assemble. Costs about $50.
What is the best oscilloscope in the world?
Look @17:37: Capacitor C742. How the hell could they not look for crap like that?!
Edit: Doh. He even captioned it later in the video. Should've watched the whole video before commenting lol.
the pcb layout is pretty close to the DG2xxx series, now somebody hack it like the DS1,2,4k ;-) /cybernet
The real question on many people's minds though is, can it play super mario? :P
+twocvbloke With the right firmware, possibly.
Im a teacher with very low common sense and I can tell you have a bomb on your desk, im calling the army
+Veikra Don't be silly, in Australia we have a proper terrorist hotline number to call!
you should call them on me, cause im terrorizing the whole school when I say bomb for nothing !
Whats wrong with the choice of Lelon capacitors.
It's a Chinese Oscilloscope producer using Chinese capacitors.
Lelon Electronics Corp, producers only capacitors since 1976.
Surely they are experts in the field.
Does anyone ever play along at home?
8bit ADC??? Am I missing something here?
does anyone play along at home?
the board looks hand solder to me.
Tear down of the bomb... I mean clock...
How to get free electronics componets:
buy something with warrenty void if removed, remove the sticker carfuly, desolder stuff and replace high quality stuff with cheap ass chiense stuff, short something and return it and do it again till your are in jail
No.
800th video!
Why would you need permission to disassemble a device you own (I assume you don't care about warranties).
He doesn't own this device, its on loan.
Every one please be advised, Im in the under 301 club
Same I was first tho
+Julian Suse You should get an award!
+Julian Suse Please be advised, I'm one of the billions of people on the planet that gives no fucks about that fact. LOL :)
SeanFromPVD What!? really, you don't care? You're probably just jealous that you're not in the >301 club xD
Kevin Topete Good job m8
hi dave
21:24 funny voice :D
That's not a clock ...............
Hmm, I would have betted that they used Rui Feng ADC...
And for all ya Texans, that is a clock not a bomb :)
Who disliked already?
+Kevin Topete The serial hater bots.
+EEVblog F*cking idiots with no electronic skills disliked.
+Kevin Topete My video dedicated to the majesty of science has the most dislike of all my videos. Who knows...
+Kevin Topete Rigol fanboys probably
+Kevin Topete Maybe it was Tony Abbott's disgruntled supporters. Right +EEVblog? j/k LOL :)
Woah woah woah FIRST!
+Kevin Topete Indeed. *gg*
+DerAlbi gg
+markybyeah well these replies are going to get deleted because I don't have time for you