As another overseas buyer (in Australia), I can add that Rails packaging is excellent for long trips, although their postage is significantly more expensive than Hattons was. I also really miss Hattons' trunk service and wish other retailers did the same. Interesting and fair comparisons in this video Sam!
Yeah I can imagine their packaging style working great for long distance - though I have heard it's pricey! Thanks for sharing, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
USA/Cape Cod , Massachusetts here, - Very much agreed 👍 Trunk , their auction operation , and especially the shipping charges . Greatly missed . Actually got to talk to them at the Amherst show over here , Good Folks as we say, high compliment . . .
Hi Sam, robust packaging is crucial for Canada shipments. Roads break up after 6 months of our winters and pounding by all our big rig trucks ( we collect potholes) so parcels really do get bounced around as do passengers! Rails packaging has been consistently excellent over last few years (they weren’t to begin with) - I need product here that works first time out of the box and gets here in one piece. It costs a fortune to return and 2 to 3 weeks for a one way trip. On shipping costs have to be careful, on odd occasion use DHL, but one UK supplier wanted to add a premium charge on DHL for anywhere in Canada - something which RoS or Hattons never have done. Also have to watch VAT being deducted, correctly described (else customs apply wrong tariffs/ duty) and it’s all correctly calculated. Being a UK modeller abroad can be a minefield, you are so lucky with free shipping in UK, next day delivery and the extremely low costs at that! Very informative, thanks. Stephen
Honestly, I think this outcome is really positive. Sure you couldn't point out "Retailer A is better than all the rest", but the fact that every retailer ended up being roughly close to each other is a really good sign. No absolute clangers or catastrophes means buyers can simply pick whichever retailer they like and/or has the stuff they want.
Sam would not have been able to point out retailer “A” better than the others because his sample was so small. That would’ve been ridiculously unfair to come to that sort of conclusion - with just one or two transactions as a test. After just a few minutes into the video I was wondering whether Sam was going to go on a soapbox “name and shame” campaign - that wouldn’t have surprised me - given how he seems to be “wired” - based on loads of past videos of his that I’ve watched. As a North Yorkshireman (albeit living down south) I’m all for frank, open and transparent discussion and comments, however, it’s important to be humble and show grace when needed.
Didn't expect to see you here! Hi! I unfortunately missed the era of Beatties, but I've heard good things about them. I ordered a few things from Rocket Railways a couple years ago, to finally get my hands on some British models, and recently learned that they ended up closing as well. It's always sad seeing a retailer close.
One of the big cautions buying from UK, being here in the US, is the cost of returns, and a real tangle of return policies. If you must return an item, it can cost as much as $100 for a small wagon - I know, I tried, and decided to keep the item instead of losing even more money.
@@chugwaterjack4458 Yep same here in Australia. If I get something broken or faulty I contact the seller to see if they're willing to give some kind of discount as return cost is so high and then fix it myself.
As an overseas buyer, the packaging is critical. Even cardboard boxes are jot necessarily defence against the rough and tumble of post/courier. The post bag is definitely a poor option, but Kernow have never used that option for me in Australia, even for small wagons or figures. Hattons originally were actually poor in packaging about a decade ago, the cardboard boxes were thin and soft, the internal wrapping sparse and they rarely put packaging under the model. However, they were brilliant at replacement and my interaction with them to allow them to see the predations of their delivery options on their packing was really positive. However, from all vendors, I have had several parcels where the there were severely crushed sides and puncture holes. The worst outcome was when only the internal clam shell saved the model from damage. The (Hornby) box was quite crushed and torn, as was the outer cardboard box. So, don’t underestimate packaging!
Brief comment Sam, just to say that had the order tipped past £20 Derails offer free postage. Excellent service! In this you could have added a bit of scenic grass or something similar for a few quid to tip you over the price point.
Nice video Sam it’s nice knowing the next go to when your local retailer doesn’t sell an item or it’s out of stock. Personally I believe that the hattons closer is because after lockdown people started going to smaller local retailers such as in east Anglia you have a large group of model retailers which have all mostly seen a large increase in the quantity of customers, for example the great eastern model railway shop in Norwich which is well none in Norfolk and Suffolk. This is why even though I like a good bargain I still go to local family run retailers.
An Excellent Review and Very Fair Assessment too! Living in Canada have nearly always used Hattons. Before the stopped trading I sent for a Class 35 Hymek in N gauge and it was noisy and a poor runner.....so was returned. The credited me for my postage cost and sent a replacement. Recently purchased a Class 27 from Rails of Sheffield.....as luck would have it ran well in reverse but poor in forward. After emails back and forth sent it back at a cost of about $15 Canadian Airmail (£7) and they sent a video clip of the replacement working and it arrive a week later and worked great. Sadly no refund on my postage!!!
👍👍Great , great upload . Many variables , I live on the East Coast of the USA for one . Hattons set the bar pretty high . I have been a patron of Hattons , Rails , Kernow , Osborn's , even a small Scotland shop - absolutely nothing but pure professionalism from all . Hard to beat the shipping charged by Hattons to Sandwich , Massachusetts . Have a great one all ! ! !
Regarding dispatch times, another factor here is the when the retailer marks you order as dispatched: whether it's as soon as they've packed the order, or when it's been picked up by the chosen courier (assuming they have a collection). If it's the second option, they may well have processed and packed your order first thing, but their collection might not have been to the evening. Collection times obviously vary depending on a lot of factors. Some retailers may even pay extra to have a later collection time to give their customers more time for same day dispatch. In the case of Derails at 2:31pm, that could be a possible collection time albeit an early one (though I suspect probably not), whereas TMC (8:19am) & Model Rails Direct (9:35am) that 's almost certainly when they packed your orders. The problem there is that the actual dispatch time would not have been till later than day. Personally I prefer when retailers (or sellers on a certain auction site) wait to tell you that an order has been dispatched until it has actually left their hands, rather than as soon as they've packed it. I've had orders where it's been packed within hours of being place, and marked as dispatched, but hasn't actually entered any courier system for several days.
Yes ebay sellers have a bad habit or marking as dispatched when they cannot possibly be, i.e. Sunday morning. When I sell, I mark as dispatched when I leave the post office and then I add the tracking when I get home.
The Dispatch alert will have been automatically generated by their Inventory system when it purchases the shipping label. I've had several instances where a parcel has been marked as 'Dispatched', but the tracking doesn't update on the shipper's end to say it's been received for several days. Most notably when it's a service that does alternate day or Twice-Weekly pickup like ECMS Express (primarily available in Asia). The actual pickup time, when it was first scanned by Royal Mail, will likely be shown in Royal Mail's tracking.
This may not matter for much of your audience, but to me one of the most important things in UK model train retailers is whether they ship to the US. Hattons had been my go-to for that in the past, especially since they had the trunk service, and now I buy from Rails; but I wonder if there are other recommendations as well.
Ahh yes of course - might be worth looking into creating a list! Rails is a pretty good shout anyway - they do have the best prices, and they do pack well for overseas! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is a disservice to those of us that choose to model UK rail of any period. Of the five you chose to select, two - Model Railways Direct and Derails - do not ship to the U.S.
@@chugwaterjack4458 yeah but a majority of Sam’s audience is UK based anyways, and it’s so expensive to ship overseas anyways. I live in Canada and there’s a guy who owns a business within the country called British Model Trains. He can get models in from Bachmann, Dapol, Oxford, Rapido, Peco, Heljan, and a few other small companies. He can’t get in Hornby and Accurascale stuff due to the two manufacturers in question not being interested in international sale (or something along those lines). Is there not a retailer in the states like that? I’m just surprised if not since in terms of population the US is much larger than Canada (333.3 Million in the US vs 38.93 Million in Canada)
@@modelrailfan37 Unfortunately, not many American retailers stock British models, and most certainly not any of the online retailers I've dealt with. It's not like the situation is much different across the pond, because I don't think many American retailers do international shipping except to Canada. Therefore, if someone in the US is modeling, say, contemporary British rail operations, acquiring locomotives and rolling stock is going to be tricky. Ditto if anyone in the UK is modeling, say, the Chessie System.
I love DERAILS - have always had great experience with them. I will always go with the cheapest option but, thanks to their shipping prices, Derails can often make that count. Fine experiences with Rails too but Derails communication, as you found, is just awesome. I cannot praise them highly enough.
It is notable for me (as a US customer) that niether Derails or Model Railways Direct ships outside of tge UK. This has been frustrating when shopping for certain models that are out of stock everywhere else
Hi mukka, because I am in Australia one of the most important items I seek when purchasing is the removal of VAT off the price. Kernow, TMC and Rails all deduct the VAT from my purchases which is great. (I have never purchased from the other two retailers so am unsure of their policies.) I also buy direct from Accurascale who have excellent customer service, reasonable postage costs and excellent packaging. The second most important thing for me is the postage which can vary considerably between retailers. I find the DPD courier service the best option when available. Hattons always used to have excellent postal options and reasonable prices. (DPD couriers were the best with them as well.) The retailers I deal with these days are not always so generous or flexible with postal options and costs. Surprisingly, I have found some retailers in the UK do not deduct the VAT which is rather rude... they must think because I'm in Oz that I'm used to being gouged... and they would probably be right! 😂 But, if the VAT is not being deducted then I'll take my business and get less gouged elsewhere. 😂 Maybe if I identify as 'Sams Trains Australian Branch' in my orders I may get preferential treatment! 😂 Thanks for an interesting and informative video. Regards to you and Chloe. Gaz 😊
As I understand it a retailer should always deduct the VAT if they are shipping overseas (it doesn't matter which country is sending or which one is receiving). The ones that didn't deduct the VAT were probably lazy or ignorant (of that fact) or both. And I think that they might have been breaking the law as well.
I don’t want to muddy the waters but I really like Jadlam, they are not exclusively trains but they have a great range and service with generally really good prices. Whoever you use, By the time you add postage to one wagon the price is a bit crazy, shame only a few of us still have local model shops
I'm from Hong Kong and I've used TMC, KMRC, Cheltenham Model Centre and Gooing Loco. I find myself going back to TMC frequently as I looked for pre-owned items very often, they also offer VAT reduction for pre-owned models which is a huge plus compared to some retailers. As for Locos I've purchased a P2 from Cheltenham and an A4 from KMRC, both went quite well and came in one piece; I did asked about the weight on my A4 R30268 as it felt light, they did my an enquiry for me and responded with good info. Shipping price is fair except Rails which has the most shipping option so I basically never ever considered Rails.
Great vid Sam! My personal favourite retailers would be TMC & Bure Valley Models - they both have very good prices and in my opinion, excellent customer service. That said, if i can get it cheaper elsewhere, ill tend to go there.
Interesting video Sam. I've used some of those named with no complaints. But I also use my local shops one of which I get 5% on purchases because they are linked to the model railway club i belong to. This shop is not online, but carries a good stock and I can order anything i need through them, and although it may take a little longer to arrive that has not been an issue for me so far. The staff are also knowledgeable and ready to give advice. Like one other commented it would have been interesting to test the returns policy of these retailers as well.
I purchase my Fleischmann Guage models from a shop called Scograil. They are a lot cheaper than other shops. They get their stock through a supplier called Guagemaster who are the main supplier for Fleischmann. I purchased Fleischmann 881916 N Gauge DB AG FEX Double Deck Coach Pack (4) £239.95 althoughit they had ordered this from Guagemaster they were selling this well below the Guagemaster price of £340.00. Also if you phone them up they are always willing to spend time talking to you about the hobby and are very friendly.
Great review as usual Sam! Appreciate everything. Im in the States, and love British steam. Have just received my first parcel from Gaugemaster. Found their prices very good, and it was dispatched and delivered in a bit over a week. Ive yet to dive in to the bundle as i just got back from a trip, but ordered the Scotsman TT 120 set, tracking, and a couple buildings. I will say they answered my emails quickly, and I had to call them, overseas of course, and were very helpful. Cheers! Fred
Really good video Sam! Perspective from overseas modeller: Living all the way over in New Zealand severely limits who will ship and who will also deduct VAT off 2nd hand. I buy mostly second-hand as even without the VAT the price hikes by Hornby/Bachmann are far too prohibitive. I use TMC because they will do both of these (so they are the most like Hattons were in this regard) the have the added bonus of their suberb weathering service and on occasion sell pre-weathered models with a significant discount. They pack pretty decently and are reasonably quick to ship and respond to any emails. Rail of Sheffield flat-out refused to deduct VAT from 2nd hand, pushing overseas customers to buy New.(Presumably more margin on new?) They also only list a small percentage directly on their website, the majority(and most of the good stuff) is listed on ebay UK only. Derails, Model Railways Direct refuse to ship outside the UK so I have no experience with them. Kernow do ship internationally however do not sell 2nd hand items so I haven't had any experience with them. Cheers and keep the videos coming!
This was another fun and informative video sam. Thanks I haven't been able to see many of your videos but now my collage course has finished I can finally enjoy your videos again
The instant a retailer opens up a service similar to Hattons' truck service, they're getting all my money. I live in the US so shipping costs are by far the worst thing for me
I agree Hattons were great for the overseas buyers I use Rails now bought you have to wait for them to work out the shipping price I have just bought some track and the shipping cost was half the item price so I asked if I bought another pack what the price would be and it was only a slightly more so I bought two packs
@@GelatoTaco Yep for real. I'm UK but just like to add bits and bobs as I go along. received an email from TMC......'NEW! 'ADD TO TRUNK' BY TMC... Small orders costing you postage? Save more with our new ' TMC Trunk' service! Select 'add to trunk' instead of postage on checkout and build the value of your orders up to qualify for FREE POSTAGE! - no connection other than as a customer. Just getting the word out there as hoping it proves popular enough for them to continue!!!
Hi Sam. I generally tend to use Rails of Sheffield as they are often the cheapest. Recently, I have been using TMC. Here's a theory on packaging: Rails are probably the "biggest" of the retailers and it may be that ordering a multitude of different-sized boxes works out more expensive than a "standard"-sized box - hence their cheaper prices. In terms of customer service, your question for the test was a little simple. I would have done my own research using sources provided by Google.
I'll try to remember to edit this on Tuesday ..... UK based, on Friday lunch time, I ordered my IWCR Terrier direct from Hornby, free shipping (it's a web only item). I date from the "Please allow 28 days for delivery", pre interweb era, so an email from Hornby, within 4 hours, informing me my loco was being dispatched to the courier and very shortly afterwards, one from the courier to let me know would be arriving on Monday rather caught me on the hop, as Sod's Law decrees I have a clinic on Monday (of course it does!!). The courier's email included a link which permitted just about every option you might want. Leave parcel with a neighbour, at a collection point, to a different address, or at a different time. My selection was confirmed immediately by email. Can't fault that at all! I'll try to come back on Tuesday and let you know about all t'other variables ST mentioned, but thus far ... I'm a happy camper.
The major thing I really miss about Hattons was how easy it was to use their system when pre-ordering. You had full control to adjust quantities, to remove items, to change payment card, to change delivery method (before the trunk service made that basically redundant) or to cancel the order entirely. Because of that when new model ranges were announced, I would immediately pre-order anything I thought I might like with Hattons safe in the knowledge that I could easily cancel said orders whenever I wanted. With other retailers you have to at the very least email them, which means interacting with a human, something that because of my autism is less than ideal, although thankfully most of time I haven't had to actually ring them. That said, I did get burned a couple of times by Hattons system towards the end, when system errors meant that two pre-orders didn't get processed. The first one they were able to process a replacement order since it was for a Hornby wagon that was still in stock. The second one however was for an Accurascale Class 37 and there was no additional stock to place a replacement order against, leaving no place to get one apart from eBay at far too high a price. Rails of Sheffield's system is probably the best system I've used so far, at least where retailers are concerned. Accurascale's system however is almost as good as Hattons was, though it does lack the option to adjust quantities, but you can cancel orders yourself, and you can choose to pay early if you wish, something Hattons never did. Personally these days I used Rails of Sheffield as my main retailer, followed by The Model Centre. I only really buy the exclusive items from Kernow/Model Rail, there's something about their system I find off-putting, clunky almost.
Great video Sam,really interesting.Since Hattons closed I haven’t purchased anything new for my layout.They were always my go to place,I didn’t shop around either.Their website was so easy to use,and their postage times were awesome.Regarding the video they all did a pretty good job tbh.Thanks Sam 👍
Regarding box sizes, as one who used to work for Australia Post and who now sends model trains in the mail, when I have a good number of items to post, I might have 50 empty boxes to choose from and none of them are the perfect size for the items being sent. If I have the time, I'll cut down the nearest size box to make it a more economical size. But if I have to do that for everything, it takes too much time and I won't get them posted that day. So it goes in a larger box and I just have to pay the extra it costs to post. The other thing with very small packages is that they're more prone to getting 'lost' in the post. Many years ago I sent a very tiny N scale loco in a small package overseas - it never arrived. :(
2:59 small error in the price you say here, that actually makes TMC sit differently in the ranking as it’s £27.16 rather than the £26.17 your narration mentions 👍🏼
Can I know which kernow model shop you used as I recently visited their Guildford store and found them to be extremely friendly,welcoming knowledgeable and helpful
A very useful comparison. I live in Sri Lanka so model costs, as well as postage costs, packaging and customer service are all critical to me. I've gotten five orders from Hattons before they closed down and was wondering who would be best thereafter. Your video has helped me make a shortlist for future purchases. Thanks!
I recently bought a model online from a retailer (so not including private sales on eBay, etc.) for the first time a couple of weeks ago, which was a secondhand Bachmann O4 from TMC. Like your review, the packaging was spot-on for size and padding and their dispatch was very prompt.
I've had very good service from Kent garden railways, and Gardens Railways Specialist. Both went out of their way to give great service. I live in Australia.
My local shop is Roxley Models in Surrey, they are absolutely incredible, prices are generally lower than most other retailers, except maybe Rails, but the customer service is impeccable,they are incredibly quick at responding to queries abd they do do online orders, if you do this again the future I’d highly recommend them
Sam, from my experience in managing high volume direct mail and online businesses I would estimate just from the packaging that Rails of Sheffield is the highest volume retailer of all those you tested. They appear to have standardised on outer carton size which they would be buying in high volumes and therefore at lower coast. The standard carton helps their packing line go faster albeit using up more bubble wrap but at lower labour cost. Perhaps one of reasons Rails offers the lowest prices. I am in Australia and have only ever purchased from Kernow and I was very happy with their delivery and packing. I think modellers should be very satisfied with the performance of all the retailers tested.
Interesting video, as a US customer I'm used to fairly long shipping times. My worst experiences have actually been with Ebay's shipping program which has lost several items after their arrival in the US. I've used Rails multiple times. I find their times to ship tend to be a bit long, the packaging is top notch, and the items arrive in pristine condition.
I am a foreign buyer and often order online if I am looking for OO scale. I have only ordered from Rails and I would say they're not the fastest in repone or dispatch time. Thanks for doing these tests for us and I would give the other online retailers a try after seeing this video. Please do this at least once a year if not twice, for giving them a reason to keep up their good work. I would suggest if you can evaluate their stock variety because I often looking for some not so recent stocks (i.e.. old stocks or pre-owned). And please do a pre-order test as well as I heard there are different dispatch time from different retailer. Good job and keep up the good work. Cheers.
An interesting exercise Sam but totally valid in 2024 as local model shops become harder to find. Have bought from Rails in the past without issue but these days mostly buy new bits in person from Trains4U in Peterborough and have been a customer since their early days (a few weeks short of 20 years as I type this) Had great customer service when I bought a Dapol O Gauge 14xx that had some screws missing on the chassis; rapid email reply from T4U and liaison with Dapol ensured spares sent out promptly but also offered a return/exchange if I'd preferred. Stopped using Hattons nearly 20 years ago following bad customer service which was a shame as they were always great up to that point even sending models next day when as a teenager I'd get my Dad to write a cheque for payment and give him the money. For 2nd hand can't beat Elaine's Trains for honest descriptions, fair pricing, prompt dispatch and decent packaging.
I'm in the US, so this doesn't apply to me, but I found the video very interesting and well done. My choice is Trainworld and Amazon. I can get almost anything from Amazon without shipping cost, and Trainworld charges shipping. With that in mind Trainworld has beat Amazon in price on several occasions and has a wider range to select from. I've looked into others, and haven't found any to out do these two. Amazon has a great return policy. I know this because I have gotten defective trains from them, but have not gotten any defected merchandise from Trainworld. Amazon's shipping is all over the place, but Trainworld normally ships the next day. I've checked out many retailers for HO scale trains, and the thing that irritates me a the most up front is listing stock that is out of stock, which is often almost half of their listings. The only thing I can think is it makes them look like they have twice as much as they have. Even used stock still listed as out of stock.
Thank you for this video Sam. I must admit I'm going to miss Hattons. They seemed to really set the bar high. I find that Rails are okay but they seem to send an awful lot of emails compared to others. One retailer I use a lot JADLAM. I use them for aircraft model kits primarily but they also stock rail. I think you could give them a try in the future? Another good model shop worthy of mentioning is Hannants (kits though, not much in railways) and Wonderland Models.
Really interesting and informative video. I am in the US, and that is probably why customer service is so important to me. Hatton's was the hands-down best, in a class way above the rest. I loved their trunk service and their wish list system that would email me when something (especially preowned) came into stock. I haven't found any other store willing to do either. I feel like they don't care. Thanks to the trunk and wish list, I spent a lot more money than I do now. In the past, the only reason I would buy from anyone else was if it was for something that Hatton's just didn't have. As for answering questions I found them to be fast and thorough. I sure do miss Hatton's!
Yeah, you get 1p for every £1 you spend. You have to apply for the loyalty account though. AFAIK it isn't done automatically when you set up your account on the website.
G'day Sam, I have found TMC to be the best for price & customer service. I've emailed & had responses within the hour. Shipping to Australia is never cheap but TMC have always been reasonable. They have also been great at having hard to find models still in stock. Great video mate. Looking forward to the next one. Cheers, Paul.
Hi Sam, robust packaging is crucial for Canada shipments. Roads break up after 6 months of winter and pounding by our big rig trucks (we collect potholes) so parcels really get bounced around! Rails packaging has been consistently excellent over last few years (they weren’t to begin with). I need product here that works first time out of the box and arrives in one piece undamaged. It costs a fortune to return and 2 to 3 weeks for a one way trip, I can assure you the extra packing Rails adds saves us all the damage and an unnecessary return! Had the same issues with one of my modeler magazines - getting and applying the right packaging is crucial. On shipping costs have to be careful, on odd occasion where had to use DHL, one UK supplier wanted to add a premium charge on DHL for anywhere in Canada - something which Rails or Hattons never have done. Have to watch VAT being deducted, correctly described/ coded (else customs apply wrong tariffs/ duty) and it’s all correctly calculated - e.g. shipping costs not added in. Being a UK modeler abroad can be a minefield, you are so lucky with all the choice, free shipping in UK, next day delivery and the extremely low costs at that! Very informative, thanks. Stephen
An excellent - and timely - video. In my opinion, cost is almost a neutral issue, as a little research will always unearth the retailer offering the lowest price. For example, I have purchased a few models recently, and Kernow has been the cheapest (eg, Hornby MGR hoppers @ £14.99ea). As for your other criteria, it was fascinating and revealing. We should also not neglect our local model shops. For example, Great Eastern Models (my local) will often price match the major online retailers.
I do like the way you approached this test, and the results were very diplomatic so good job. You had 5 retailors so why not use a 5-point system? You don't have to answer that but, because I am from the states, we love winners as you know. lol, great video, Jersey Bill
Gladly use all of these! For me a big thing is being to pay upfront so Accurascale direct and collets often do well on this front. Derails low £20 threshold for free delivery is superb. I’ll often order from them as the lowest cost + P&P is them. The only one I’ve had a minor issue with was Kernow on a return that seemed to imply that a faulty model was to be sent back at my own expense. Nevertheless this was quickly resolved and I have ordered from them since and been impressed.
Ordering from Australia I've had mixed experiences with Kernow TMC Rails and Hatton's. Kernow wins hands down for me. To the point I've ordered from them the same day as an ebay item in Aus... Kernow parcel arrived first. TMC can be quicker but very pricey. Kernow also have tracking from drop off through Heathrow and standard AusPost tracking here which is reassuring! Kernow has also always been best with customer service. Rails response was almost generic. TMC were very helpful and lovely. Kernow were just easier and quicker to respond. Oddly enough the name Chris seems to be very common in model rail sales personnel. Or are they all the same person 😮
I recently made my first ever purchase from Rails, and had the same experiences as you. Dispatch time was terrible - placed the order Wednesday afternoon expecting “tracked 48” would mean it arrived by the weekend. It got dispatched Friday evening. It actually got delivered (thrown under my car) on Sunday morning, so thanks Royal Mail. An equally oversized box, the same sort of bubble wrap. If this is a bit of their business that’s important to Rails they need to sharpen up their act.
Thanks for video, Sam, and the many comments it sparked off. I live in Australia and echo the comments that Hattons trunk system was great and one of the retailers should emulate it. They would quickly have an overseas following. Over the years I’ve used several of the retailers and can report satisfaction with all of them. I tended to use Hattons (my first order was in the 1970’s) who were excellent on service, postage and the trunk system, but used a variety of others for availability or significant price advantages on particular items. And for overseas customers postage is important for the total cost. And I can report satisfaction with both Hattons and Rails on dealing with items that arrived damaged.
Interesting comparison Sam. To be quite frank, we've been ordering online of course but there is a good old shop nearby with excellent staff, and which has become our go to in many cases. Nothing compares to face to face contact, and prices are not our main driver tbh. Quality, reliability, helpful staff, excellent advice and delivery as is to be normally expected are key. Total quality if you will. Some stuff can better be found online, and of course the Märklin shop is the place to go for preordering. Where to buy just remains a combination of intuition and ratio. It's always a little journey and interesting. Cheerio.
Hi Sam, shopping around does pay off, sometimes the small shop does work out cheaper and they may have “leftover” stock that the big boys have sold out of. There are a couple of big ones not mentioned; Gaugemaster and Osborns. Unfortunately, unless they have rare stock they are at the top end. Kernow is a strange one as from my experience they are around the middle price. Royal Mail, is a funny one, recently I have had two orders with an email time in the morning but they have arrived after tea! My findings are no one stands out you must shop around and pray you are in at the time stated for your delivery. Thanks for your time and hardworking it is appreciated. Derails are a good company, shout for Saul although the stock availability is lacking at times (British N Gauge) if they could get near RoS then they would be excellent. One other question to answer for all of us - what happened to our “local” model shop sob, sob….
Hi Sam, very interesting video. TMC is my go to store now, can't fault them ever. Kernow have a done a lot of good for the hobby but I recently fell out with them. I try to buy locally if possible so Gaugemaster sees me every so often
Hiya Sam. I nearly always go for the cheapest price and take into account postage costs when ordering on line. Sadly for the environment I was not bothered about the size of the box. As only really noticed this when opening it up. My kids love bubble wrap, the more the better! I also use the boxes to send stuff out too, so recycling. As for customer service, Hattons (no longer with us) on the phone were poor tbh. You had to ask for Hornby R….. or Bachmann’s 32-…. They turned out to be similar to ordering from Argos. But I guess just because you work in a model train shop, no reason why you should be interested in them. Delivery time can be important if (I want it now). But I always allow a week. I always try to support my local shops, so if the price is not favourable ask them to match (Rails) or at least a little discount. It works for me! interesting video. Keep them coming!
Very nice and detailed comparison. In my opinion, as long as models are sold at a reasonable price, I’m okay with it. As an aside… …was the rhyming in the title intentional?
I would agree with your points on Rails of Sheffield. They have been great for a number of models and preorders I've made. However, trying to find information on what is happening with my order of Genesis coaches they inherited, they gave me the same response months apart when I enquired. My P class loco that was inherited by Accurascale is currently in production and they have been great at giving me information about the order.
Great idea for a review. On the size of boxes, I have found with other non-rail products that sometimes a bigger box can be better. It makes it harder for the carrier to lose it down the back of the van, & can give extra padding. This can help if stuff marked fragile is still thrown around.
Hmmm, I would say if it’s sent tracked or signed for the size of the box doesn’t matter - I use small boxes for my stuff and I’ve never had a tracked one go missing! The extra padding is definitely better, but none of the items in smaller boxes were damaged!
Great thanks. Agree - Hattons’s fall seems to have overloaded Rails. You might also review the quality of preowned - some retailers “as new” preowned locos appear strangely duff - possibly customer returns of shop-damaged?
I'll give my local shop a shout out- Alton Model Centre in Alton, Hampshire- even though they don't have an online shop. I haven't been in there for a while and their window display is looking a bit tired but they do seem to be surviving (being close to our local preserved steam railway- the Watercress Line- probably helps) and I think they have always been pretty well regarded.
Hi Sam I’m a keen follower of your channel. I used to own two UK model shops in the late 1980s. I remember it sickening me when Beatties started to open up branches in the UK - and as a result of their bulk purchasing, they were able to discount things and still make a reasonable profit. Of course they were not a “proper” model shop - and knew hardly anything technical. Whereas I did - especially regarding radio controlled planes, boats, cars, model engines, etc. Some people used to come and try and pick my brains and technical know-how - and then buy from Beatties or another discounter! I soon got wise to this and did my best to try and stop that from happening - but not by having to give discount from what were quite low profit margins anyway. I would say something like “if you expect to be able to come back and ask for my help, then I expect you to have purchased from me”. I suppose a summary could’ve been “pay a bit more money and buy from me and know that you’ve got an incredible resource of help and advice available from a practising and very experienced modeller (not just a shopkeeper); but if you want to save yourself a few pounds by buying from a discounter, don’t expect me to help out. So as you might expect I was very sensitive about discounting(!!) - and quite frankly if I had to start giving away discount on products I was selling, I would have rather closed the door on the business. So wind forward to 2024 and the whole model railways scene - it does beg the question what do modellers want now. If there is sufficient help and advice available online for free, then one can 100% understand why people often shop around for the lowest price although good customer service is still worth paying extra for.
Race to the bottom stuff these days, cheapskates rather save a pound or two that shop local or simply wait to buy something. Complain their local shop has low stock while supporting the warehouse stores that Hoover up all the stock to shift it on at a discounted price because their way of doing things permits a discount. Lotta bankrupt modellers out there selling the retailers they claim to be behind down the river in exchange for what? Getting models in the mail they then moan about having a bit missing when they could have shopped local, checked their items for themselves. Complaining about quality while willingly taking a knife to a safety net that used to ensure quality is just naked hypocrisy and greed. Get what you pay for as they say, be cheap, expect some fall out.
@@Samanthasrailadventures cheapskates - yes I tend to agree with you. I suppose ultimately it comes down to this - if people want a local (or relatively local) model shop in their area to remain there and survive (IF you even have one at the moment!) then support them instead of whingeing that they might be a little bit more expensive. Be prepared to pay a bit extra for the privilege of having them there. The same goes for all other types of local shops too - otherwise you’re going to see even more coffee shops, eating places and charity shops; and a big drop in pedestrian footfall. However, I do wonder if it’s not already too late - with so much business now being done online; people perhaps having less time to wander around shops; and most people feeling the pinch due to the cost of living situation. I support my local model shop whenever I can; plus as it is a 2 mile walk each way, this puts another 10,000 steps on my step counter! Unfortunately as I model in ON30 narrow gauge, most of what I want I have to buy online, including eBay. When I do have to buy online, I don’t penny pinch - and try and compare small differences in postage!! I try to buy from suppliers who give me the best overall customer service and prompt dispatch.
@@madeinyorkshire52 yes there are those exceptions of scale or manufacturer that can cause a pain in the neck if shopping in person but British OO... Nah you only have to examine Google maps or the lists of stockists on the manufacturers websites to realise no one in the UK is actually an unreasonable distance from a physical retailer. Even in the highlands of Scotland you're never *that* far from one
Interesting video Sam, enjoyed that one.. For me TMC are the best. As far as I can find they offer genuine bargains occasionally, which cannot be beaten. Currently Bachmann LNER B1 and LMS 4P tender locos for £99. Hornby LNER A3 (new version with diecast plate and flickering firebox) for £126. These are discounts that I've struggled to find elsewhere. So kudos to TMC for offering genuine SALE items.... Occasionally.. 😂
Interesting experiment. I have used three of these five online, and another at a recent show. I think the price comparison is obviously very important, but I always bear in mind that Rails (and formally Hattons) are true “box shifters”. Their buying power with the manufacture is considerable and so yes, they are able to offer low prices and often undercut the smaller retailers. I know for a fact that at least one of these are much smaller scale (two person operation I believe). Still a worthwhile exercise, so thanks for that, and great to see more N gauge on your channel.
I just came back from the U.K. and I actually visited DeRails in person. Not an easy store to find in person, they have literally NO signage for it, you have to go around the back of a building and go up some stairs to an unmarked door. But despite that, really nice chaps there, just model railway stuff crammed into every nook and cranny. I think the reason they don’t really advertise their location is because they focus on online orders. They don’t ship to my country, regrettably, but they also told me why. Sounds like selling goods overseas is a right pain in the backside, and might have contributed to hattons calling time
In America, it's Tony's Trains, Nicholas Smith Trains, and Walthers, though there are many others. I buy a lot of my trains from Amazon and eBay as well.
Derails are my local shop. Every item I've bought from them has been very competitively priced, as low as any other internet price, and their customer service has been fantastic, and of course it's great that I can go to the shop in person to discuss any issues. I highly recommend them.
I came from Hattons and went to Rails because they said they took over the Hattons brand and the subsequent directory. I think their prices are pretty good for their second hand locos. Though I do miss the Hattons trunk a lot. It made me spend little amounts of money to secure an item, but hold onto it to bundle it in a large shipment to save postage and not to buy a large amount of models I fear may sell out and spend hundreds in one day. I did also try TMC which was decent. I do buy a lot of second hand models, so retailers who offer them in immediately interested in. Though none get as close as Hattons I think. You could ask about the product directly at the product listing and if you do it in the morning the question gets answered by afternoon which is amazing. Luckily I didn’t have to go through the ordeal of a breakage yet from both retailers I tried. As an overseas customer the shipping and delivery takes ages unfortunately and not all retailers offer international postage, so these two, but more Rails, is the retailer or choice for me here
You should always support your local model shop. Friendly supportive and helpful. Once they are gone the big players have no competition and prices will rise.
Having been buying model railways since the late 60's i have enough experience to know which retailers give the best service and which to avoid. Before ordering via the internet was an option you relied on the adverts in the magazines and then either calling them to check availability and then sending off your cheque or postal order, today that has all changed and so have the retailers. Hattons were the no 1 choice for most of us, but they are no more so that leaves us with Rails as the nearest equivalent sadly their dispatch times have never been great, but they are mostly competative with their prices. I started to use TMC when they first opened in the Trafford centre and have found them to be excellent. The others i have not used. One point regarding the packing, sending a wagon in a jiffy bag is not acceptable to me, it could have arrived very crushed despite the bubble wrap, a box is a must with plenty of packing but not shredded paper that is vile stuff and covers the contents in dust. I live close to Chester Model Center but rarely buy from them, the prices are way above the average even including postage.
Blimey sounds like a very different time! Yeah I use Rails for many orders and they are absolutely fine - TMC are great as well, I use them a fair bit also! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It was all hard work until the internet took over, cheques had to be cleared before the model was posted, there were no next day couriers and Royal Mail were slow.
I have used Hattons and Rails of Sheffield for many years - both gave excellent service until Hattons closed so Rails is still my 'to go to' shop. Very interesting review and clearly not a 'bad' experience anywhere.
Please make a video about overseas retailers since it is a lot harder now that the uk left the eu and due to the fact that Hattons used to be the best for this. Postage can be extortionate sometimes and import duties plus VAT are pretty bad when outside the U.K.
Please also consider Malc's Models of Ilkeston. A brilliant team including Malc himself and his Son Brett. A very well stocked shop for all gauges and essential paraphernalia too. A visit to the shop is a must if you're in the area. If not, give them a call and order online. Great advice always freely given and never be afraid to ask "silly questions" either. They'll tell you there's no such thing. Supportive, professional and a lovely family business too.
Building British Railways here in Arizona can be a challenge. Since Hatton's closed I have almost always used Rails. I have had zero problems with them and as you point out their prices are usually the best. If I was going to be picky I would say their dispatch times can be several days but everything always arrives well packed and in good shape. Like others have said I really miss Hatton's trunk service and there choice of shipping options. I used to use DHL and things would be on my doorstep 5 or 6 days after ordering. Because of Rails the closure of Hatton's has not proved to be the disaster I thought it was going to be.
Having been using Hatton's in Liverpool since the 1960s before online shopping or even telephone credit card shopping I found them to be price competitive and even with having to mail the order and payment for your item it usually came within a week and a half, it's shame that they've gone. I've had no complaint about rails of Sheffield particularly with their returns policy on second hand goods, I can purchase models with confidence knowing if you're unsatisfied you have a no quibble guarantee. Derails customer service response was incredibly good. Excellent and fair test.
An interesting experiment, I'm not too surprised by the result and do use the top three the most in fact I haven't yet ordered from Derails or Model Railways Direct as yet. On the price front I have noticed TMC pre-owned to be rather expensive often near the new price whilst showing the new price as a usual price trying to make it look as though they are giving good reductions in sales.
Simply speaking, online works when there isn't a local, if there is a local do your best to get a good relationship with them and they will always help you.
Could you please Put Up Derails options ,I'm getting it and want to see what there thinking, from oversea Person rails of Sheffield is about 20 pounds for Loco and about 10 to 20 pounds Rolling stock, Kernow is about 20 pounds for 2 Kg airmail From Britain to Australia width 2 weeks for shipping to my door but depends on Border and other things. Hatton my last one was (over the limit for tax and Cost me 235 Dollars approx to get my last trunk out) but before them, it was about 40 pounds via DHL. so local model shop is about $10-20 AUD and about a week.
In Germany a lot of rolling stock has to be preordered and it comes months, sometimes years later. Some retailers allow customers to enter their holiday times to avoid shipments just when they are on holiday or for other reasons not prepared to receive packets. Most postal services in Germany keep a packet for five to seven days until they return it to its sender. For me personally more important (as I buy almost only used material) is the ability of the mail service chosen by the retailer, to control the day of delivery and delay it to my home office days. I do not mind if a seller (he may be a professional dealer or a private seller) asks for some time because model railroading is not about urgent organ or blood donations.
Yeah that's pretty much the same here - and that's a cool feature - I'm not aware of British retailers offering that feature... except Hatton's used to do something along those lines! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam. I have to say that TMC have been fantastic with their customer service. I purchased a dapol n gauge mallard from them at Warley last year. Only to have to return it multiple times through no fault of their own. They gave me a credit and I have now ordered a suitable Graham Farish 5MT. They have been excellent.
Good in depth report but what is wrong with a larger box ? Less likely to get mislaid or dropped and trodden upon, cardboard can be recycled anyway. Bubble wrap can be reused..
What usually turns me off of a retailer is their website; how easy can i find something specific, navigation, product details (in my country a lot of retailers can't be bothered to enter a nice description of a product). As for uk based retailers my experience currently is limited to Hattons and Rails of Sheffield (as they apparently tool over Hattons customer database) And the website of Rails can't hold a candle to Hattons. Hattons was a joy to navigate through, search, etc. The website of rails in my experience seems more of an afterthought. Which has turned me off.
@@SamsTrains perhaps you could do a review of websites? I've found with one large retailer that not only is their website poor (fairly obvious...) but that the information on my pre orders is even worse. My fault for going for the cheapest / free postage! Hattons was my favourite but, of course, they were making a loss...
I bought a helmand 00 gauge turntable from Rails, it went wrong after 6 months. I rang them and they couldn't have been more helpful in a quick replacement. You can only speak as you find! Regards Terry 😊
I currently purchase model railway items from all manner of manufacturers and retailers, both big and small. Purchase price, postage, quality of packaging, and customer service have all been acceptable to me - except for a couple of items purchased off Ebay. My last loco was direct from the manufacturer 'Accurascale' and before that a couple of limited edition wagons from 'The 2874 Trust' (they were manufactured for them by Dapol and state 'Made in the UK' on the box which is great considering most model railway items seem to be manufactured abroad now). I do however want to support my local retailers more and so have made a point to visit about the only local model railway retailer left in my county. I guess if you don't use them you will lose them.
I noticed that Derail's box for the N-gauge was branded "TP-Link" and had some suspicious stains. A bit of cost savings going on there, reusing old packaging.
Interesting . I’ve used them all except Kernow . It used to be their advert in Railway Modeller had such small print that I couldn’t read it ! Frankly of the other 4 I think they are all very good . Usually delivered with days and always well packed . Rails I probably use most , but TMC is rapidly becoming a favourite mainly because they have lots of sales where you can pick up some really good bargain. I think TMC are probably fastest off the mark
I live in New Zealand and desperately needed some O gauge pieces for my layout and ended up ordering from Rails of Sheffield. The postage was extorsionately expensive so I decided to make it worth it by buying a few wagons too (at £50 each). The day my order was shipped those wagons were put on sale for 50% off!
I'm also from New Zealand (Hamilton) and do british rail scene. I use to use Hattons. Pretty dissapointing to hear that Rails shipping is so expensive!
@michaelgrey7854 Hattons was my go to for anything. Rails did say in an email they were looking to sort a better international postage provider to bring costs down, so may only be a temporary thing.
As an update on overseas postage: I managed to be early enough to buy some of Sam’s latest offerings - and they are great. On prompt postage Sam was with the best. On packaging, the box had had a real workout in the post. It is of very stout cardboard. Clearly a heavy parcel had fallen edge first onto it, with part of the edge beyond Sam’s box. This depressed the shortest side Y axis by about an inch (of about 4) with the depression running on the X and Y axes. The deepest part was about half an inch from the X side of the box - i.e. closest to its strongest (crush) point. In the longest X axis the indentation ran from side to almost the other side, getting shallower as it went. On the shortest Y axis the depression sloped up to about 3-4 inches to about an inch from the other side. Sam’s packaging was brilliant. There was sufficient packaging on both the X and Y axes for the indentation to do no more than squash the filler and whilst the Z axis was not involved, it would have been sufficient to avoid damage too had the most severe depression occurred at exactly the site of the models. So top marks Sam!
As another overseas buyer (in Australia), I can add that Rails packaging is excellent for long trips, although their postage is significantly more expensive than Hattons was. I also really miss Hattons' trunk service and wish other retailers did the same. Interesting and fair comparisons in this video Sam!
I’m in Canada, what retailer offers the best prices for international shipping in your opinion?
Yeah I can imagine their packaging style working great for long distance - though I have heard it's pricey! Thanks for sharing,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
USA/Cape Cod , Massachusetts here, - Very much agreed 👍 Trunk , their auction operation , and especially the shipping charges . Greatly missed . Actually got to talk to them at the Amherst show over here , Good Folks as we say, high compliment . . .
@@Cape_Cod_Steve what retailer do you use? Rails?
Hi Sam, robust packaging is crucial for Canada shipments. Roads break up after 6 months of our winters and pounding by all our big rig trucks ( we collect potholes) so parcels really do get bounced around as do passengers! Rails packaging has been consistently excellent over last few years (they weren’t to begin with) - I need product here that works first time out of the box and gets here in one piece. It costs a fortune to return and 2 to 3 weeks for a one way trip. On shipping costs have to be careful, on odd occasion use DHL, but one UK supplier wanted to add a premium charge on DHL for anywhere in Canada - something which RoS or Hattons never have done. Also have to watch VAT being deducted, correctly described (else customs apply wrong tariffs/ duty) and it’s all correctly calculated. Being a UK modeller abroad can be a minefield, you are so lucky with free shipping in UK, next day delivery and the extremely low costs at that! Very informative, thanks. Stephen
Honestly, I think this outcome is really positive. Sure you couldn't point out "Retailer A is better than all the rest", but the fact that every retailer ended up being roughly close to each other is a really good sign. No absolute clangers or catastrophes means buyers can simply pick whichever retailer they like and/or has the stuff they want.
Sam would not have been able to point out retailer “A” better than the others because his sample was so small. That would’ve been ridiculously unfair to come to that sort of conclusion - with just one or two transactions as a test. After just a few minutes into the video I was wondering whether Sam was going to go on a soapbox “name and shame” campaign - that wouldn’t have surprised me - given how he seems to be “wired” - based on loads of past videos of his that I’ve watched. As a North Yorkshireman (albeit living down south) I’m all for frank, open and transparent discussion and comments, however, it’s important to be humble and show grace when needed.
I used to love buying models from Beatties back in the day, really miss them :(
Oh yes I remember them, There used to be 1 in Hemel Hempstead - I used to buy Scalextric bit (Cars & Track) from them!!! 😊🚂🚂🚂
Didn't expect to see you here! Hi!
I unfortunately missed the era of Beatties, but I've heard good things about them. I ordered a few things from Rocket Railways a couple years ago, to finally get my hands on some British models, and recently learned that they ended up closing as well. It's always sad seeing a retailer close.
Yes used Leeds a lot then latterly Portsmouth, happy days!
You always show up in the most unexpected places Larry, but it’s always good to see you.
There was one in Liverpool, but a great model centre on bold street too
I think you should have ordered 5 Black 5s so you could have tested the returns policy.
hahaha!! If I wanted a guaranteed fauly that would have been the way to go haha!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Came here to say the same of course sods law determines that they would all be perfect.
@@andrewjames1190 Wouldn't matter if they were, as you can return anything for any reason under the distance selling regulation
One of the big cautions buying from UK, being here in the US, is the cost of returns, and a real tangle of return policies. If you must return an item, it can cost as much as $100 for a small wagon - I know, I tried, and decided to keep the item instead of losing even more money.
@@chugwaterjack4458 Yep same here in Australia.
If I get something broken or faulty I contact the seller to see if they're willing to give some kind of discount as return cost is so high and then fix it myself.
As an overseas buyer, the packaging is critical.
Even cardboard boxes are jot necessarily defence against the rough and tumble of post/courier.
The post bag is definitely a poor option, but Kernow have never used that option for me in Australia, even for small wagons or figures.
Hattons originally were actually poor in packaging about a decade ago, the cardboard boxes were thin and soft, the internal wrapping sparse and they rarely put packaging under the model. However, they were brilliant at replacement and my interaction with them to allow them to see the predations of their delivery options on their packing was really positive.
However, from all vendors, I have had several parcels where the there were severely crushed sides and puncture holes. The worst outcome was when only the internal clam shell saved the model from damage. The (Hornby) box was quite crushed and torn, as was the outer cardboard box.
So, don’t underestimate packaging!
Brief comment Sam, just to say that had the order tipped past £20 Derails offer free postage. Excellent service! In this you could have added a bit of scenic grass or something similar for a few quid to tip you over the price point.
Same on the Hornby Black 5 - Rails would be £4.00 more expensive due to DeRails free shipping.
Nice video Sam it’s nice knowing the next go to when your local retailer doesn’t sell an item or it’s out of stock. Personally I believe that the hattons closer is because after lockdown people started going to smaller local retailers such as in east Anglia you have a large group of model retailers which have all mostly seen a large increase in the quantity of customers, for example the great eastern model railway shop in Norwich which is well none in Norfolk and Suffolk. This is why even though I like a good bargain I still go to local family run retailers.
An Excellent Review and Very Fair Assessment too! Living in Canada have nearly always used Hattons. Before the stopped trading I sent for a Class 35 Hymek in N gauge and it was noisy and a poor runner.....so was returned. The credited me for my postage cost and sent a replacement. Recently purchased a Class 27 from Rails of Sheffield.....as luck would have it ran well in reverse but poor in forward. After emails back and forth sent it back at a cost of about $15 Canadian Airmail (£7) and they sent a video clip of the replacement working and it arrive a week later and worked great. Sadly no refund on my postage!!!
👍👍Great , great upload . Many variables , I live on the East Coast of the USA for one . Hattons set the bar pretty high . I have been a patron of Hattons , Rails , Kernow , Osborn's , even a small Scotland shop - absolutely nothing but pure professionalism from all . Hard to beat the shipping charged by Hattons to Sandwich , Massachusetts . Have a great one all ! ! !
Regarding dispatch times, another factor here is the when the retailer marks you order as dispatched: whether it's as soon as they've packed the order, or when it's been picked up by the chosen courier (assuming they have a collection). If it's the second option, they may well have processed and packed your order first thing, but their collection might not have been to the evening. Collection times obviously vary depending on a lot of factors. Some retailers may even pay extra to have a later collection time to give their customers more time for same day dispatch.
In the case of Derails at 2:31pm, that could be a possible collection time albeit an early one (though I suspect probably not), whereas TMC (8:19am) & Model Rails Direct (9:35am) that 's almost certainly when they packed your orders. The problem there is that the actual dispatch time would not have been till later than day.
Personally I prefer when retailers (or sellers on a certain auction site) wait to tell you that an order has been dispatched until it has actually left their hands, rather than as soon as they've packed it. I've had orders where it's been packed within hours of being place, and marked as dispatched, but hasn't actually entered any courier system for several days.
Yes ebay sellers have a bad habit or marking as dispatched when they cannot possibly be, i.e. Sunday morning. When I sell, I mark as dispatched when I leave the post office and then I add the tracking when I get home.
The Dispatch alert will have been automatically generated by their Inventory system when it purchases the shipping label. I've had several instances where a parcel has been marked as 'Dispatched', but the tracking doesn't update on the shipper's end to say it's been received for several days. Most notably when it's a service that does alternate day or Twice-Weekly pickup like ECMS Express (primarily available in Asia).
The actual pickup time, when it was first scanned by Royal Mail, will likely be shown in Royal Mail's tracking.
This may not matter for much of your audience, but to me one of the most important things in UK model train retailers is whether they ship to the US. Hattons had been my go-to for that in the past, especially since they had the trunk service, and now I buy from Rails; but I wonder if there are other recommendations as well.
Ahh yes of course - might be worth looking into creating a list! Rails is a pretty good shout anyway - they do have the best prices, and they do pack well for overseas!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Rails, Kernow, and TMC all offer international shipping! Not sure what others do…
This is a disservice to those of us that choose to model UK rail of any period. Of the five you chose to select, two - Model Railways Direct and Derails - do not ship to the U.S.
@@chugwaterjack4458 yeah but a majority of Sam’s audience is UK based anyways, and it’s so expensive to ship overseas anyways. I live in Canada and there’s a guy who owns a business within the country called British Model Trains. He can get models in from Bachmann, Dapol, Oxford, Rapido, Peco, Heljan, and a few other small companies. He can’t get in Hornby and Accurascale stuff due to the two manufacturers in question not being interested in international sale (or something along those lines). Is there not a retailer in the states like that? I’m just surprised if not since in terms of population the US is much larger than Canada (333.3 Million in the US vs 38.93 Million in Canada)
@@modelrailfan37 Unfortunately, not many American retailers stock British models, and most certainly not any of the online retailers I've dealt with. It's not like the situation is much different across the pond, because I don't think many American retailers do international shipping except to Canada. Therefore, if someone in the US is modeling, say, contemporary British rail operations, acquiring locomotives and rolling stock is going to be tricky. Ditto if anyone in the UK is modeling, say, the Chessie System.
I love DERAILS - have always had great experience with them. I will always go with the cheapest option but, thanks to their shipping prices, Derails can often make that count. Fine experiences with Rails too but Derails communication, as you found, is just awesome. I cannot praise them highly enough.
They dont ship overseas I would love to buy from them but can not
Gotta love the biscuits as well
It is notable for me (as a US customer) that niether Derails or Model Railways Direct ships outside of tge UK. This has been frustrating when shopping for certain models that are out of stock everywhere else
Ahh right - a bit of a dealbreaker then yeah!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi mukka, because I am in Australia one of the most important items I seek when purchasing is the removal of VAT off the price. Kernow, TMC and Rails all deduct the VAT from my purchases which is great. (I have never purchased from the other two retailers so am unsure of their policies.) I also buy direct from Accurascale who have excellent customer service, reasonable postage costs and excellent packaging.
The second most important thing for me is the postage which can vary considerably between retailers. I find the DPD courier service the best option when available. Hattons always used to have excellent postal options and reasonable prices. (DPD couriers were the best with them as well.) The retailers I deal with these days are not always so generous or flexible with postal options and costs.
Surprisingly, I have found some retailers in the UK do not deduct the VAT which is rather rude... they must think because I'm in Oz that I'm used to being gouged... and they would probably be right! 😂 But, if the VAT is not being deducted then I'll take my business and get less gouged elsewhere. 😂
Maybe if I identify as 'Sams Trains Australian Branch' in my orders I may get preferential treatment! 😂
Thanks for an interesting and informative video. Regards to you and Chloe.
Gaz 😊
As I understand it a retailer should always deduct the VAT if they are shipping overseas (it doesn't matter which country is sending or which one is receiving). The ones that didn't deduct the VAT were probably lazy or ignorant (of that fact) or both. And I think that they might have been breaking the law as well.
I don’t want to muddy the waters but I really like Jadlam, they are not exclusively trains but they have a great range and service with generally really good prices. Whoever you use, By the time you add postage to one wagon the price is a bit crazy, shame only a few of us still have local model shops
After that excellent response from DeRails, I would have felt obliged to purchase one of the sets they suggested after the time they took!
I'm from Hong Kong and I've used TMC, KMRC, Cheltenham Model Centre and Gooing Loco. I find myself going back to TMC frequently as I looked for pre-owned items very often, they also offer VAT reduction for pre-owned models which is a huge plus compared to some retailers. As for Locos I've purchased a P2 from Cheltenham and an A4 from KMRC, both went quite well and came in one piece; I did asked about the weight on my A4 R30268 as it felt light, they did my an enquiry for me and responded with good info. Shipping price is fair except Rails which has the most shipping option so I basically never ever considered Rails.
Great vid Sam! My personal favourite retailers would be TMC & Bure Valley Models - they both have very good prices and in my opinion, excellent customer service. That said, if i can get it cheaper elsewhere, ill tend to go there.
Have to agree Bure Valley do have a lot of bargains. Just got a corker from them and it arrived very quickly.
@@modelrailwaynoob Same here, very good service from them.
Have had good prices and excellent service from Bure Valley, definitely recommended
Interesting video Sam. I've used some of those named with no complaints. But I also use my local shops one of which I get 5% on purchases because they are linked to the model railway club i belong to. This shop is not online, but carries a good stock and I can order anything i need through them, and although it may take a little longer to arrive that has not been an issue for me so far. The staff are also knowledgeable and ready to give advice.
Like one other commented it would have been interesting to test the returns policy of these retailers as well.
I purchase my Fleischmann Guage models from a shop called Scograil. They are a lot cheaper than other shops. They get their stock through a supplier called Guagemaster who are the main supplier for Fleischmann. I purchased Fleischmann 881916 N Gauge DB AG FEX Double Deck Coach Pack (4)
£239.95 althoughit they had ordered this from Guagemaster they were selling this well below the Guagemaster price of £340.00. Also if you phone them up they are always willing to spend time talking to you about the hobby and are very friendly.
They all seem pretty good, no absolute shockers.
Yeah that's right - they all did the job!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review as usual Sam! Appreciate everything. Im in the States, and love British steam. Have just received my first parcel from Gaugemaster. Found their prices very good, and it was dispatched and delivered in a bit over a week. Ive yet to dive in to the bundle as i just got back from a trip, but ordered the Scotsman TT 120 set, tracking, and a couple buildings. I will say they answered my emails quickly, and I had to call them, overseas of course, and were very helpful. Cheers! Fred
Really good video Sam!
Perspective from overseas modeller:
Living all the way over in New Zealand severely limits who will ship and who will also deduct VAT off 2nd hand.
I buy mostly second-hand as even without the VAT the price hikes by Hornby/Bachmann are far too prohibitive.
I use TMC because they will do both of these (so they are the most like Hattons were in this regard) the have the added bonus of their suberb weathering service and on occasion sell pre-weathered models with a significant discount. They pack pretty decently and are reasonably quick to ship and respond to any emails.
Rail of Sheffield flat-out refused to deduct VAT from 2nd hand, pushing overseas customers to buy New.(Presumably more margin on new?)
They also only list a small percentage directly on their website, the majority(and most of the good stuff) is listed on ebay UK only.
Derails, Model Railways Direct refuse to ship outside the UK so I have no experience with them.
Kernow do ship internationally however do not sell 2nd hand items so I haven't had any experience with them.
Cheers and keep the videos coming!
This was another fun and informative video sam. Thanks
I haven't been able to see many of your videos but now my collage course has finished I can finally enjoy your videos again
The instant a retailer opens up a service similar to Hattons' truck service, they're getting all my money. I live in the US so shipping costs are by far the worst thing for me
Yeah that's true - we lost a lot of great services when Hatton' went!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I agree Hattons were great for the overseas buyers
I use Rails now bought you have to wait for them to work out the shipping price
I have just bought some track and the shipping cost was half the item price so I asked if I bought another pack what the price would be and it was only a slightly more so I bought two packs
The Model Centre now has a trunk service!
@@pjben WAIT, FOR REAL?
@@GelatoTaco Yep for real. I'm UK but just like to add bits and bobs as I go along. received an email from TMC......'NEW! 'ADD TO TRUNK' BY TMC...
Small orders costing you postage? Save more with our new ' TMC Trunk' service! Select 'add to trunk' instead of postage on checkout and build the value of your orders up to qualify for FREE POSTAGE! - no connection other than as a customer. Just getting the word out there as hoping it proves popular enough for them to continue!!!
Hi Sam. I generally tend to use Rails of Sheffield as they are often the cheapest. Recently, I have been using TMC. Here's a theory on packaging: Rails are probably the "biggest" of the retailers and it may be that ordering a multitude of different-sized boxes works out more expensive than a "standard"-sized box - hence their cheaper prices. In terms of customer service, your question for the test was a little simple. I would have done my own research using sources provided by Google.
I'll try to remember to edit this on Tuesday .....
UK based, on Friday lunch time, I ordered my IWCR Terrier direct from Hornby, free shipping (it's a web only item). I date from the "Please allow 28 days for delivery", pre interweb era, so an email from Hornby, within 4 hours, informing me my loco was being dispatched to the courier and very shortly afterwards, one from the courier to let me know would be arriving on Monday rather caught me on the hop, as Sod's Law decrees I have a clinic on Monday (of course it does!!).
The courier's email included a link which permitted just about every option you might want. Leave parcel with a neighbour, at a collection point, to a different address, or at a different time. My selection was confirmed immediately by email. Can't fault that at all!
I'll try to come back on Tuesday and let you know about all t'other variables ST mentioned, but thus far ... I'm a happy camper.
The major thing I really miss about Hattons was how easy it was to use their system when pre-ordering. You had full control to adjust quantities, to remove items, to change payment card, to change delivery method (before the trunk service made that basically redundant) or to cancel the order entirely.
Because of that when new model ranges were announced, I would immediately pre-order anything I thought I might like with Hattons safe in the knowledge that I could easily cancel said orders whenever I wanted. With other retailers you have to at the very least email them, which means interacting with a human, something that because of my autism is less than ideal, although thankfully most of time I haven't had to actually ring them.
That said, I did get burned a couple of times by Hattons system towards the end, when system errors meant that two pre-orders didn't get processed. The first one they were able to process a replacement order since it was for a Hornby wagon that was still in stock. The second one however was for an Accurascale Class 37 and there was no additional stock to place a replacement order against, leaving no place to get one apart from eBay at far too high a price.
Rails of Sheffield's system is probably the best system I've used so far, at least where retailers are concerned. Accurascale's system however is almost as good as Hattons was, though it does lack the option to adjust quantities, but you can cancel orders yourself, and you can choose to pay early if you wish, something Hattons never did.
Personally these days I used Rails of Sheffield as my main retailer, followed by The Model Centre. I only really buy the exclusive items from Kernow/Model Rail, there's something about their system I find off-putting, clunky almost.
Great video Sam,really interesting.Since Hattons closed I haven’t purchased anything new for my layout.They were always my go to place,I didn’t shop around either.Their website was so easy to use,and their postage times were awesome.Regarding the video they all did a pretty good job tbh.Thanks Sam 👍
Regarding box sizes, as one who used to work for Australia Post and who now sends model trains in the mail, when I have a good number of items to post, I might have 50 empty boxes to choose from and none of them are the perfect size for the items being sent. If I have the time, I'll cut down the nearest size box to make it a more economical size. But if I have to do that for everything, it takes too much time and I won't get them posted that day. So it goes in a larger box and I just have to pay the extra it costs to post.
The other thing with very small packages is that they're more prone to getting 'lost' in the post. Many years ago I sent a very tiny N scale loco in a small package overseas - it never arrived. :(
2:59 small error in the price you say here, that actually makes TMC sit differently in the ranking as it’s £27.16 rather than the £26.17 your narration mentions 👍🏼
Can I know which kernow model shop you used as I recently visited their Guildford store and found them to be extremely friendly,welcoming knowledgeable and helpful
Fantastic video Sam and they will be missed for being the best model making place out there 26:45
A very useful comparison. I live in Sri Lanka so model costs, as well as postage costs, packaging and customer service are all critical to me. I've gotten five orders from Hattons before they closed down and was wondering who would be best thereafter. Your video has helped me make a shortlist for future purchases. Thanks!
I recently bought a model online from a retailer (so not including private sales on eBay, etc.) for the first time a couple of weeks ago, which was a secondhand Bachmann O4 from TMC. Like your review, the packaging was spot-on for size and padding and their dispatch was very prompt.
I've had very good service from Kent garden railways, and Gardens Railways Specialist. Both went out of their way to give great service. I live in Australia.
My local shop is Roxley Models in Surrey, they are absolutely incredible, prices are generally lower than most other retailers, except maybe Rails, but the customer service is impeccable,they are incredibly quick at responding to queries abd they do do online orders, if you do this again the future I’d highly recommend them
Sam, from my experience in managing high volume direct mail and online businesses I would estimate just from the packaging that Rails of Sheffield is the highest volume retailer of all those you tested. They appear to have standardised on outer carton size which they would be buying in high volumes and therefore at lower coast. The standard carton helps their packing line go faster albeit using up more bubble wrap but at lower labour cost. Perhaps one of reasons Rails offers the lowest prices. I am in Australia and have only ever purchased from Kernow and I was very happy with their delivery and packing. I think modellers should be very satisfied with the performance of all the retailers tested.
Interesting video, as a US customer I'm used to fairly long shipping times. My worst experiences have actually been with Ebay's shipping program which has lost several items after their arrival in the US. I've used Rails multiple times. I find their times to ship tend to be a bit long, the packaging is top notch, and the items arrive in pristine condition.
I am a foreign buyer and often order online if I am looking for OO scale. I have only ordered from Rails and I would say they're not the fastest in repone or dispatch time. Thanks for doing these tests for us and I would give the other online retailers a try after seeing this video. Please do this at least once a year if not twice, for giving them a reason to keep up their good work. I would suggest if you can evaluate their stock variety because I often looking for some not so recent stocks (i.e.. old stocks or pre-owned). And please do a pre-order test as well as I heard there are different dispatch time from different retailer. Good job and keep up the good work. Cheers.
An interesting exercise Sam but totally valid in 2024 as local model shops become harder to find.
Have bought from Rails in the past without issue but these days mostly buy new bits in person from Trains4U in Peterborough and have been a customer since their early days (a few weeks short of 20 years as I type this)
Had great customer service when I bought a Dapol O Gauge 14xx that had some screws missing on the chassis; rapid email reply from T4U and liaison with Dapol ensured spares sent out promptly but also offered a return/exchange if I'd preferred.
Stopped using Hattons nearly 20 years ago following bad customer service which was a shame as they were always great up to that point even sending models next day when as a teenager I'd get my Dad to write a cheque for payment and give him the money.
For 2nd hand can't beat Elaine's Trains for honest descriptions, fair pricing, prompt dispatch and decent packaging.
I'm in the US, so this doesn't apply to me, but I found the video very interesting and well done. My choice is Trainworld and Amazon. I can get almost anything from Amazon without shipping cost, and Trainworld charges shipping. With that in mind Trainworld has beat Amazon in price on several occasions and has a wider range to select from. I've looked into others, and haven't found any to out do these two. Amazon has a great return policy. I know this because I have gotten defective trains from them, but have not gotten any defected merchandise from Trainworld. Amazon's shipping is all over the place, but Trainworld normally ships the next day.
I've checked out many retailers for HO scale trains, and the thing that irritates me a the most up front is listing stock that is out of stock, which is often almost half of their listings. The only thing I can think is it makes them look like they have twice as much as they have. Even used stock still listed as out of stock.
Thank you for this video Sam. I must admit I'm going to miss Hattons. They seemed to really set the bar high. I find that Rails are okay but they seem to send an awful lot of emails compared to others.
One retailer I use a lot JADLAM. I use them for aircraft model kits primarily but they also stock rail. I think you could give them a try in the future?
Another good model shop worthy of mentioning is Hannants (kits though, not much in railways) and Wonderland Models.
Great test, we need this sort of thing for the prices we pay. I would love to see more of this. Many thanks
Derails, good prices, excellent packaging, quick deliveries, used over 5 times so far, everytime no issue,
Really interesting and informative video. I am in the US, and that is probably why customer service is so important to me. Hatton's was the hands-down best, in a class way above the rest. I loved their trunk service and their wish list system that would email me when something (especially preowned) came into stock. I haven't found any other store willing to do either. I feel like they don't care. Thanks to the trunk and wish list, I spent a lot more money than I do now. In the past, the only reason I would buy from anyone else was if it was for something that Hatton's just didn't have. As for answering questions I found them to be fast and thorough. I sure do miss Hatton's!
Kernow do have a customer loyalty scheme. Keep up the good work.
Ahh do they? I'll have to look into that... I must have a fair few points by now if so!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Yeah, you get 1p for every £1 you spend. You have to apply for the loyalty account though. AFAIK it isn't done automatically when you set up your account on the website.
G'day Sam, I have found TMC to be the best for price & customer service. I've emailed & had responses within the hour. Shipping to Australia is never cheap but TMC have always been reasonable. They have also been great at having hard to find models still in stock. Great video mate. Looking forward to the next one.
Cheers, Paul.
Hi Sam, robust packaging is crucial for Canada shipments. Roads break up after 6 months of winter and pounding by our big rig trucks (we collect potholes) so parcels really get bounced around! Rails packaging has been consistently excellent over last few years (they weren’t to begin with). I need product here that works first time out of the box and arrives in one piece undamaged. It costs a fortune to return and 2 to 3 weeks for a one way trip, I can assure you the extra packing Rails adds saves us all the damage and an unnecessary return! Had the same issues with one of my modeler magazines - getting and applying the right packaging is crucial. On shipping costs have to be careful, on odd occasion where had to use DHL, one UK supplier wanted to add a premium charge on DHL for anywhere in Canada - something which Rails or Hattons never have done. Have to watch VAT being deducted, correctly described/ coded (else customs apply wrong tariffs/ duty) and it’s all correctly calculated - e.g. shipping costs not added in. Being a UK modeler abroad can be a minefield, you are so lucky with all the choice, free shipping in UK, next day delivery and the extremely low costs at that! Very informative, thanks. Stephen
An excellent - and timely - video.
In my opinion, cost is almost a neutral issue, as a little research will always unearth the retailer offering the lowest price. For example, I have purchased a few models recently, and Kernow has been the cheapest (eg, Hornby MGR hoppers @ £14.99ea).
As for your other criteria, it was fascinating and revealing.
We should also not neglect our local model shops. For example, Great Eastern Models (my local) will often price match the major online retailers.
I do like the way you approached this test, and the results were very diplomatic so good job. You had 5 retailors so why not use a 5-point system? You don't have to answer that but, because I am from the states, we love winners as you know. lol, great video, Jersey Bill
Gladly use all of these! For me a big thing is being to pay upfront so Accurascale direct and collets often do well on this front.
Derails low £20 threshold for free delivery is superb. I’ll often order from them as the lowest cost + P&P is them.
The only one I’ve had a minor issue with was Kernow on a return that seemed to imply that a faulty model was to be sent back at my own expense. Nevertheless this was quickly resolved and I have ordered from them since and been impressed.
Ordering from Australia I've had mixed experiences with Kernow TMC Rails and Hatton's.
Kernow wins hands down for me. To the point I've ordered from them the same day as an ebay item in Aus... Kernow parcel arrived first. TMC can be quicker but very pricey. Kernow also have tracking from drop off through Heathrow and standard AusPost tracking here which is reassuring!
Kernow has also always been best with customer service. Rails response was almost generic. TMC were very helpful and lovely. Kernow were just easier and quicker to respond.
Oddly enough the name Chris seems to be very common in model rail sales personnel. Or are they all the same person 😮
I recently made my first ever purchase from Rails, and had the same experiences as you. Dispatch time was terrible - placed the order Wednesday afternoon expecting “tracked 48” would mean it arrived by the weekend. It got dispatched Friday evening. It actually got delivered (thrown under my car) on Sunday morning, so thanks Royal Mail. An equally oversized box, the same sort of bubble wrap.
If this is a bit of their business that’s important to Rails they need to sharpen up their act.
Thanks for video, Sam, and the many comments it sparked off. I live in Australia and echo the comments that Hattons trunk system was great and one of the retailers should emulate it. They would quickly have an overseas following.
Over the years I’ve used several of the retailers and can report satisfaction with all of them. I tended to use Hattons (my first order was in the 1970’s) who were excellent on service, postage and the trunk system, but used a variety of others for availability or significant price advantages on particular items. And for overseas customers postage is important for the total cost.
And I can report satisfaction with both Hattons and Rails on dealing with items that arrived damaged.
Interesting comparison Sam. To be quite frank, we've been ordering online of course but there is a good old shop nearby with excellent staff, and which has become our go to in many cases. Nothing compares to face to face contact, and prices are not our main driver tbh. Quality, reliability, helpful staff, excellent advice and delivery as is to be normally expected are key. Total quality if you will. Some stuff can better be found online, and of course the Märklin shop is the place to go for preordering. Where to buy just remains a combination of intuition and ratio. It's always a little journey and interesting. Cheerio.
Hi Sam, shopping around does pay off, sometimes the small shop does work out cheaper and they may have “leftover” stock that the big boys have sold out of. There are a couple of big ones not mentioned; Gaugemaster and Osborns. Unfortunately, unless they have rare stock they are at the top end. Kernow is a strange one as from my experience they are around the middle price. Royal Mail, is a funny one, recently I have had two orders with an email time in the morning but they have arrived after tea! My findings are no one stands out you must shop around and pray you are in at the time stated for your delivery. Thanks for your time and hardworking it is appreciated. Derails are a good company, shout for Saul although the stock availability is lacking at times (British N Gauge) if they could get near RoS then they would be excellent. One other question to answer for all of us - what happened to our “local” model shop sob, sob….
Hi Sam, very interesting video. TMC is my go to store now, can't fault them ever. Kernow have a done a lot of good for the hobby but I recently fell out with them. I try to buy locally if possible so Gaugemaster sees me every so often
Hiya Sam. I nearly always go for the cheapest price and take into account postage costs when ordering on line. Sadly for the environment I was not bothered about the size of the box. As only really noticed this when opening it up. My kids love bubble wrap, the more the better! I also use the boxes to send stuff out too, so recycling. As for customer service, Hattons (no longer with us) on the phone were poor tbh. You had to ask for Hornby R….. or Bachmann’s 32-…. They turned out to be similar to ordering from Argos. But I guess just because you work in a model train shop, no reason why you should be interested in them. Delivery time can be important if (I want it now). But I always allow a week. I always try to support my local shops, so if the price is not favourable ask them to match (Rails) or at least a little discount. It works for me! interesting video. Keep them coming!
Very nice and detailed comparison. In my opinion, as long as models are sold at a reasonable price, I’m okay with it. As an aside… …was the rhyming in the title intentional?
I would agree with your points on Rails of Sheffield. They have been great for a number of models and preorders I've made. However, trying to find information on what is happening with my order of Genesis coaches they inherited, they gave me the same response months apart when I enquired. My P class loco that was inherited by Accurascale is currently in production and they have been great at giving me information about the order.
Great idea for a review. On the size of boxes, I have found with other non-rail products that sometimes a bigger box can be better. It makes it harder for the carrier to lose it down the back of the van, & can give extra padding. This can help if stuff marked fragile is still thrown around.
Hmmm, I would say if it’s sent tracked or signed for the size of the box doesn’t matter - I use small boxes for my stuff and I’ve never had a tracked one go missing! The extra padding is definitely better, but none of the items in smaller boxes were damaged!
SAM = Great retailer review. You covered a lot of ground. THANK YOU, super video as always !
Great thanks. Agree - Hattons’s fall seems to have overloaded Rails. You might also review the quality of preowned - some retailers “as new” preowned locos appear strangely duff - possibly customer returns of shop-damaged?
I have always used Kernow & found them very helpful with competitive prices .I have used others such as Rails but Kernow is my preference
Shout out for Kernow - from order to delivery in New Zealand - 6 days. Amazing
I'll give my local shop a shout out- Alton Model Centre in Alton, Hampshire- even though they don't have an online shop. I haven't been in there for a while and their window display is looking a bit tired but they do seem to be surviving (being close to our local preserved steam railway- the Watercress Line- probably helps) and I think they have always been pretty well regarded.
Hi Sam I’m a keen follower of your channel. I used to own two UK model shops in the late 1980s. I remember it sickening me when Beatties started to open up branches in the UK - and as a result of their bulk purchasing, they were able to discount things and still make a reasonable profit. Of course they were not a “proper” model shop - and knew hardly anything technical. Whereas I did - especially regarding radio controlled planes, boats, cars, model engines, etc. Some people used to come and try and pick my brains and technical know-how - and then buy from Beatties or another discounter! I soon got wise to this and did my best to try and stop that from happening - but not by having to give discount from what were quite low profit margins anyway. I would say something like “if you expect to be able to come back and ask for my help, then I expect you to have purchased from me”. I suppose a summary could’ve been “pay a bit more money and buy from me and know that you’ve got an incredible resource of help and advice available from a practising and very experienced modeller (not just a shopkeeper); but if you want to save yourself a few pounds by buying from a discounter, don’t expect me to help out. So as you might expect I was very sensitive about discounting(!!) - and quite frankly if I had to start giving away discount on products I was selling, I would have rather closed the door on the business.
So wind forward to 2024 and the whole model railways scene - it does beg the question what do modellers want now. If there is sufficient help and advice available online for free, then one can 100% understand why people often shop around for the lowest price although good customer service is still worth paying extra for.
Race to the bottom stuff these days, cheapskates rather save a pound or two that shop local or simply wait to buy something. Complain their local shop has low stock while supporting the warehouse stores that Hoover up all the stock to shift it on at a discounted price because their way of doing things permits a discount.
Lotta bankrupt modellers out there selling the retailers they claim to be behind down the river in exchange for what? Getting models in the mail they then moan about having a bit missing when they could have shopped local, checked their items for themselves. Complaining about quality while willingly taking a knife to a safety net that used to ensure quality is just naked hypocrisy and greed.
Get what you pay for as they say, be cheap, expect some fall out.
@@Samanthasrailadventures cheapskates - yes I tend to agree with you. I suppose ultimately it comes down to this - if people want a local (or relatively local) model shop in their area to remain there and survive (IF you even have one at the moment!) then support them instead of whingeing that they might be a little bit more expensive. Be prepared to pay a bit extra for the privilege of having them there. The same goes for all other types of local shops too - otherwise you’re going to see even more coffee shops, eating places and charity shops; and a big drop in pedestrian footfall.
However, I do wonder if it’s not already too late - with so much business now being done online; people perhaps having less time to wander around shops; and most people feeling the pinch due to the cost of living situation. I support my local model shop whenever I can; plus as it is a 2 mile walk each way, this puts another 10,000 steps on my step counter! Unfortunately as I model in ON30 narrow gauge, most of what I want I have to buy online, including eBay. When I do have to buy online, I don’t penny pinch - and try and compare small differences in postage!! I try to buy from suppliers who give me the best overall customer service and prompt dispatch.
@@madeinyorkshire52 yes there are those exceptions of scale or manufacturer that can cause a pain in the neck if shopping in person but British OO... Nah you only have to examine Google maps or the lists of stockists on the manufacturers websites to realise no one in the UK is actually an unreasonable distance from a physical retailer. Even in the highlands of Scotland you're never *that* far from one
Not all Beatties shops were the same. The Holborn shop staff were extremely knowledgeable and helpful.
Frizinghall Model Railways in Bradford do a really good job. 👍
They do! Well worth a visit, good all round stock and they have a very nice N Gauge layout in the shop
Interesting video Sam, enjoyed that one.. For me TMC are the best. As far as I can find they offer genuine bargains occasionally, which cannot be beaten. Currently Bachmann LNER B1 and LMS 4P tender locos for £99. Hornby LNER A3 (new version with diecast plate and flickering firebox) for £126. These are discounts that I've struggled to find elsewhere. So kudos to TMC for offering genuine SALE items.... Occasionally.. 😂
Interesting experiment.
I have used three of these five online, and another at a recent show.
I think the price comparison is obviously very important, but I always bear in mind that Rails (and formally Hattons) are true “box shifters”.
Their buying power with the manufacture is considerable and so yes, they are able to offer low prices and often undercut the smaller retailers.
I know for a fact that at least one of these are much smaller scale (two person operation I believe).
Still a worthwhile exercise, so thanks for that, and great to see more N gauge on your channel.
I just came back from the U.K. and I actually visited DeRails in person. Not an easy store to find in person, they have literally NO signage for it, you have to go around the back of a building and go up some stairs to an unmarked door. But despite that, really nice chaps there, just model railway stuff crammed into every nook and cranny. I think the reason they don’t really advertise their location is because they focus on online orders.
They don’t ship to my country, regrettably, but they also told me why. Sounds like selling goods overseas is a right pain in the backside, and might have contributed to hattons calling time
In America, it's Tony's Trains, Nicholas Smith Trains, and Walthers, though there are many others. I buy a lot of my trains from Amazon and eBay as well.
Try model train classics in Eau Claire, wi. It is my local hornby shop, no website, but friendly staff
@@jeffheins6624 Nice to know 🙂 But I live in New York, so if they don't have a web site, I have no way to buy from them.
This is a very interesting topic Sam, great job.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Derails are my local shop. Every item I've bought from them has been very competitively priced, as low as any other internet price, and their customer service has been fantastic, and of course it's great that I can go to the shop in person to discuss any issues. I highly recommend them.
I came from Hattons and went to Rails because they said they took over the Hattons brand and the subsequent directory. I think their prices are pretty good for their second hand locos. Though I do miss the Hattons trunk a lot. It made me spend little amounts of money to secure an item, but hold onto it to bundle it in a large shipment to save postage and not to buy a large amount of models I fear may sell out and spend hundreds in one day. I did also try TMC which was decent. I do buy a lot of second hand models, so retailers who offer them in immediately interested in. Though none get as close as Hattons I think. You could ask about the product directly at the product listing and if you do it in the morning the question gets answered by afternoon which is amazing. Luckily I didn’t have to go through the ordeal of a breakage yet from both retailers I tried. As an overseas customer the shipping and delivery takes ages unfortunately and not all retailers offer international postage, so these two, but more Rails, is the retailer or choice for me here
You should always support your local model shop. Friendly supportive and helpful. Once they are gone the big players have no competition and prices will rise.
My local shops don't stock TT120 items yet, so I have bought scenic stuff, but everything else is online, until they catch up.
Very good video. I like to shop at my local store Tony’s Trains of Rugby and support them. Always nice to see a model in the flesh
There was a train I was looking at from kernow would the loco be packed in the bag?
Having been buying model railways since the late 60's i have enough experience to know which retailers give
the best service and which to avoid.
Before ordering via the internet was an option you relied on the adverts in the magazines and then either calling them
to check availability and then sending off your cheque or postal order, today that has all changed and so have the retailers.
Hattons were the no 1 choice for most of us, but they are no more so that leaves us with Rails as the nearest equivalent
sadly their dispatch times have never been great, but they are mostly competative with their prices.
I started to use TMC when they first opened in the Trafford centre and have found them to be excellent.
The others i have not used.
One point regarding the packing, sending a wagon in a jiffy bag is not acceptable to me, it could have arrived very crushed
despite the bubble wrap, a box is a must with plenty of packing but not shredded paper that is vile stuff and covers the contents in dust.
I live close to Chester Model Center but rarely buy from them, the prices are way above the average even including postage.
Blimey sounds like a very different time! Yeah I use Rails for many orders and they are absolutely fine - TMC are great as well, I use them a fair bit also!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It was all hard work until the internet took over, cheques had to be cleared
before the model was posted, there were no next day couriers and Royal Mail were slow.
I have used Hattons and Rails of Sheffield for many years - both gave excellent service until Hattons closed so Rails is still my 'to go to' shop. Very interesting review and clearly not a 'bad' experience anywhere.
Please make a video about overseas retailers since it is a lot harder now that the uk left the eu and due to the fact that Hattons used to be the best for this. Postage can be extortionate sometimes and import duties plus VAT are pretty bad when outside the U.K.
Yeah I've had a few comments like that - thanks a lot for the suggestion!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains come on Sam there are a lot of us out there
Great video sam 👍 very interesting 👍 and informative 😊
Please also consider Malc's Models of Ilkeston. A brilliant team including Malc himself and his Son Brett. A very well stocked shop for all gauges and essential paraphernalia too. A visit to the shop is a must if you're in the area. If not, give them a call and order online. Great advice always freely given and never be afraid to ask "silly questions" either. They'll tell you there's no such thing. Supportive, professional and a lovely family business too.
Building British Railways here in Arizona can be a challenge. Since Hatton's closed I have almost always used Rails. I have had zero problems with them and as you point out their prices are usually the best. If I was going to be picky I would say their dispatch times can be several days but everything always arrives well packed and in good shape. Like others have said I really miss Hatton's trunk service and there choice of shipping options. I used to use DHL and things would be on my doorstep 5 or 6 days after ordering. Because of Rails the closure of Hatton's has not proved to be the disaster I thought it was going to be.
Having been using Hatton's in Liverpool since the 1960s before online shopping or even telephone credit card shopping I found them to be price competitive and even with having to mail the order and payment for your item it usually came within a week and a half, it's shame that they've gone. I've had no complaint about rails of Sheffield particularly with their returns policy on second hand goods, I can purchase models with confidence knowing if you're unsatisfied you have a no quibble guarantee. Derails customer service response was incredibly good. Excellent and fair test.
An interesting experiment, I'm not too surprised by the result and do use the top three the most in fact I haven't yet ordered from Derails or Model Railways Direct as yet. On the price front I have noticed TMC pre-owned to be rather expensive often near the new price whilst showing the new price as a usual price trying to make it look as though they are giving good reductions in sales.
Thanks a lot Rob - Derails do go above and beyond, worth a try! Plus they have a rewards scheme which not many do!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Simply speaking, online works when there isn't a local, if there is a local do your best to get a good relationship with them and they will always help you.
Yeah that can be true - sadly my local sells most things at the full RRP, so I just can't afford to support them!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I was the same to start with my local only advertising MSRP, but once I got to know them, they started matching prices.
@@SamsTrains you absolutely can afford to support them you just make a sacrificial choice of volume of models you can get over supporting them.
Could you please Put Up Derails options ,I'm getting it and want to see what there thinking, from oversea Person rails of Sheffield is about 20 pounds for Loco and about 10 to 20 pounds Rolling stock, Kernow is about 20 pounds for 2 Kg airmail From Britain to Australia width 2 weeks for shipping to my door but depends on Border and other things. Hatton my last one was (over the limit for tax and Cost me 235 Dollars approx to get my last trunk out) but before them, it was about 40 pounds via DHL. so local model shop is about $10-20 AUD and about a week.
In Germany a lot of rolling stock has to be preordered and it comes months, sometimes years later. Some retailers allow customers to enter their holiday times to avoid shipments just when they are on holiday or for other reasons not prepared to receive packets. Most postal services in Germany keep a packet for five to seven days until they return it to its sender.
For me personally more important (as I buy almost only used material) is the ability of the mail service chosen by the retailer, to control the day of delivery and delay it to my home office days.
I do not mind if a seller (he may be a professional dealer or a private seller) asks for some time because model railroading is not about urgent organ or blood donations.
Yeah that's pretty much the same here - and that's a cool feature - I'm not aware of British retailers offering that feature... except Hatton's used to do something along those lines!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam.
I have to say that TMC have been fantastic with their customer service. I purchased a dapol n gauge mallard from them at Warley last year. Only to have to return it multiple times through no fault of their own. They gave me a credit and I have now ordered a suitable Graham Farish 5MT.
They have been excellent.
Good in depth report but what is wrong with a larger box ? Less likely to get mislaid or dropped and trodden upon, cardboard can be recycled anyway. Bubble wrap can be reused..
What usually turns me off of a retailer is their website; how easy can i find something specific, navigation, product details (in my country a lot of retailers can't be bothered to enter a nice description of a product).
As for uk based retailers my experience currently is limited to Hattons and Rails of Sheffield (as they apparently tool over Hattons customer database)
And the website of Rails can't hold a candle to Hattons. Hattons was a joy to navigate through, search, etc.
The website of rails in my experience seems more of an afterthought. Which has turned me off.
Yea that’s very true actually - a bad website can make shopping extremely irritating… and there are some bad ones!
@@SamsTrains perhaps you could do a review of websites? I've found with one large retailer that not only is their website poor (fairly obvious...) but that the information on my pre orders is even worse. My fault for going for the cheapest / free postage! Hattons was my favourite but, of course, they were making a loss...
I bought a helmand 00 gauge turntable from Rails, it went wrong after 6 months. I rang them and they couldn't have been more helpful in a quick replacement. You can only speak as you find! Regards Terry 😊
one of my go to's is Great Eastern Railway Models although they have more instore than what is available online. also great customer service
I currently purchase model railway items from all manner of manufacturers and retailers, both big and small. Purchase price, postage, quality of packaging, and customer service have all been acceptable to me - except for a couple of items purchased off Ebay. My last loco was direct from the manufacturer 'Accurascale' and before that a couple of limited edition wagons from 'The 2874 Trust' (they were manufactured for them by Dapol and state 'Made in the UK' on the box which is great considering most model railway items seem to be manufactured abroad now). I do however want to support my local retailers more and so have made a point to visit about the only local model railway retailer left in my county. I guess if you don't use them you will lose them.
I noticed that Derail's box for the N-gauge was branded "TP-Link" and had some suspicious stains. A bit of cost savings going on there, reusing old packaging.
Interesting . I’ve used them all except Kernow . It used to be their advert in Railway Modeller had such small print that I couldn’t read it ! Frankly of the other 4 I think they are all very good . Usually delivered with days and always well packed . Rails I probably use most , but TMC is rapidly becoming a favourite mainly because they have lots of sales where you can pick up some really good bargain. I think TMC are probably fastest off the mark
I live in New Zealand and desperately needed some O gauge pieces for my layout and ended up ordering from Rails of Sheffield. The postage was extorsionately expensive so I decided to make it worth it by buying a few wagons too (at £50 each). The day my order was shipped those wagons were put on sale for 50% off!
I'm also from New Zealand (Hamilton) and do british rail scene. I use to use Hattons. Pretty dissapointing to hear that Rails shipping is so expensive!
@michaelgrey7854 Hattons was my go to for anything. Rails did say in an email they were looking to sort a better international postage provider to bring costs down, so may only be a temporary thing.
As an update on overseas postage:
I managed to be early enough to buy some of Sam’s latest offerings - and they are great.
On prompt postage Sam was with the best.
On packaging, the box had had a real workout in the post. It is of very stout cardboard. Clearly a heavy parcel had fallen edge first onto it, with part of the edge beyond Sam’s box. This depressed the shortest side Y axis by about an inch (of about 4) with the depression running on the X and Y axes. The deepest part was about half an inch from the X side of the box - i.e. closest to its strongest (crush) point.
In the longest X axis the indentation ran from side to almost the other side, getting shallower as it went. On the shortest Y axis the depression sloped up to about 3-4 inches to about an inch from the other side.
Sam’s packaging was brilliant. There was sufficient packaging on both the X and Y axes for the indentation to do no more than squash the filler and whilst the Z axis was not involved, it would have been sufficient to avoid damage too had the most severe depression occurred at exactly the site of the models.
So top marks Sam!