Did you guess correctly who would win? Let me know what your results were in the comments below, I'll give them a read! 🙂 For anyone looking for timecodes of each fight, you can find them below. Just FYI, spoilers! 🔹 *Imperial-I vs Nebula 🔹 **2:55* 🔹 *Endurance vs Venator 🔹 **7:18* 🔹 *Endurance vs Ascendancy 🔹 **9:53* 🔹 *Victory-I vs Enforcer 🔹 **14:02* 🔹 *Imperial-II vs Tector 🔹 **18:32* 🔹 *EX-F fleet vs Allegiance Fleet 🔹 **22:23* 🔹 *EX-F vs Praetor-II 🔹 **32:10* 🔹 *?!?!?! 🔹 **38:13*
@EcksToo Hey Charlie amazing video my man, at the end you said that the Republic Star Destroyer can go 1v1 with an ISD-2 and win then the Nebula. How about an 1v1 match with the Nebula against the RSD (Republic Star Destroyer) to see if your right?
The irony about the Tector versus Imperial II argument is that because the Tector takes up fewer unit slots in a fleet, you actually have enough space to throw a Ton-Falk escort carrier in and make up the difference in fighter support. It's more credits expensive and requires two ships instead of one, but I think it's a worth while trade.
its even more interesting isd 2 has ions few but they help a lot since the tector doesn't have them, but the tector medium guns shoot faster than the octoples so it can cripple the isd faster
@@kR-qj7rw It's a combination of greater durability and superior fire saturation. The ISD IIs octuples fire slowly and have the "all or nothing" problem where either all the shots from a gun will hit or miss in a group. The Tector doesn't have that problem because it has more guns, all of them fire faster, and it has greater durability to compensate for the lack of ion weapons. It's a tank, meant to draw fire and soak damage while spreading its own firepower around to hit multiple targets and keep them pinned for more direct damage focused ships to finish them off.
In Legends the Nebula was the cream of the crop. This is a game that balances things out because if it was like in Legends just a small fleet of these ships would be able to wipe out a fleet twice its size. Though in games they need to make thing balanced so one faction isn't too powerful. Though from what I have seen the Nebula would have won at long range fire, rather than close range fire, in game.
It's unfortunate the ISD I refit model isn't buildable in game. It would be the best of both when it comes to ISD armament, combining the I's ion cannon power with the II's overwhelming octuple turbolasers. The only examples of that we get are two hero units, Tanda Pryl for the EA and Malcor Brashin for the Empire, and both are only available in Era 1.
Just started checking out this channel, so I don't know if this has already been done: It would be interesting to see different fleets of ships go against one another after equating cost. E.g., a number of nebulas vs a number of ISDs when credits are approximately equal.
I'm not sure if I disagree with Corey making the nebula weaker by comparison, or if the issue is that charlies not throwing fighters into the mix-because thats arguably part of what makes these ships deadly.
In some battles, just small maneuvers could completely change the result. When it comes to Star Destroyers you’ll want it to face its enemy head on so all its weapons can fire, not just a broadside where it’ll only fire half of its weapons like around 28:14 Nice video nonetheless Charlie!
just had a thought of a video that would take a while to make but would be a nice idea: do a tournament where worst seed is lowest pop cap and vice versa, but in the actual battles make the pop cap of the lower pop ships equal to their opponents by just adding the same kind of ship to each fleet until it is equal. (i might be english but my english is terrible, so sorry about that)
None of them are really the MOST powerful. They all have different roles which they play in a fleet. Pitting them 1v1 isn't the best way to show off each ships strengths and weaknesses.
I've done a lot of tests like this while trying to create my own perfect fleet build. The Imperial I is actually the most powerful of the ISD frames for one-on-one combat because of its ion cannons. The Imperial II is actually the worst. The Tector beats out the Imp II because of its stronger shields and overall greater number of fast firing guns. Against larger numbers of smaller ships, the Tector takes the win, again because of its fast guns, but the ISD I takes last because its ion cannons become overkill against small vessels. The ISD II was middle of the pack this time and only lost out to the Tector because most of its firepower is tied up in the slow firing, burst damage octuple turbolasers. Granted, this was just testing the ships themselves, not their fighter compliments. It isn't a fair fight when fighters are around because the star destroyers keep dedicating some of their main guns to shooting down the fighters, meaning it was impossible to get an accurate shot for shot calculation between the ships.
I mean I'm pretty sure the original WEG system didn't specify "Assault concussion missiles" I would have to ask a WEG expert if they had a penalty to hit fighters and compare their damage with fighter launched conc missiles.b I always thought they were SUPPOSED to macross missile massacre their way through fighters.
I could be wrong, but I’ve only seen the Nebula vs ISD1 fights so far, but the first thing I notice in that in game the Nebula has very weak armor & shields, as well as weapons, compared to it’s listed stats in universe. I mean the whole idea is that it was suppose to be able to, by itself, take on any ship short of a SSD or full fleets, but it seems the mod gutted the specs, likely for game balance issue. While this is understandable from a gameplay point of view, I wish the fleet mode you are using, had an option to have ships spec’ed out in universe, so for example you could look at a fleet makeup in a cannon battle and run various “what if” scenarios.
I've thought for a while the Nebula has been a little bit underpowered for a while now. It dishes out good damage but is itself so flimsy that it really struggles to keep dishing out that damage. Id say they need to up it to a 32 cap cost and then give it a relatively significant buff so it can beat an ISD 1.
If Nebula seems weak to you, you are using it incorrectly. While you can call it a fragile ship, it has great firepower (mostly in hull damaging weapons) and solid range. Best thing you can do as NR is putting it to the second line, behind some tough, ion-heavy ships like Home One type or MC90.
@@zbynekkowalski2202 I said it can dish out good damage, I don't think that needs changing. But it got annhilated here by an ISD-1 which is only 1 cost cap larger than the nebula. The ISD has almost the same damage output while having basically double the total shield and hull. I just think bring it up to 32 cap and then give it the ability to withstand a little bit of punishment too. Then it could go toe to toe with ISD's which, because after all it was designed to fight ISD 2 and here it comfortably lost to an ISD 1.
@@AytonGang Well, there's reason why Corey doesn't consider 1v1 as good tests of ship abilities. ISD1 is (at least according to me) the strongest ship in it's class due to it's ion-heavy weaponry which allows it to deal easily with other ships and can be easily used as a part of fleet as well as on it's own. Nebula on the other hand profits strongly from supporting fleet and it's definitely skill-heavier than ISD1, but when used properly, it can easily deal damage worth two or three times of it's popcap
Much like many of the Mon-Cala line & it's shield recharging ability. New Republic ships are designed to excel more in a fleet composition, rather than direct 1v1 damage. The Nebula has a LOT of firepower (note the ultra-heavy turbolaser), but needs to be surrounded by a fleet beside it to offset taking direct damage. TL;DR - Empire will always excel in 1v1 fights, because their ship designs take that into consideration. - Charlie
The thing with the Nebula that a lot of ppl don’t get is that it’s strengths lie at range. A Nebula (and also the Majestic class cruiser) can land as many shots at long range as an ISD can at medium. In short, one could say that they outrange the ISD. Having the Nebula and ISD start at medium range from each other, it’s obvious that the ISD would most likely come out on top
Right, they are similar to the CIS Munificet frigates and Recusanys destroyers or the Chiss Peltasr SD: they excel at range and get weaker as they close tge distance. 1vs1 like these are useless as they don't consider fleet copositions and tactics at all.
9:00 everyone seems to forget the Venator was only 3 years old at the beginning of the Empire. It should still be VERY combat effective especially in the early GCW years and give any other larger ship a run for its money, especially in terms of fighters and bombers, all these mods only give Venators a paltry amount of fighters and bombers. Remember ISDs were produced at the end of the Clone Wars and still remained very combat relevant 20 years later. Even the other factions like the New Republic and EotH start making things like the Nebula and Ascendancy which are just Venator analogues.
I think the acendecy is supposed to have chiss fighters, rather than the bad tie loadout. Not sure if it would have mattered vs endurance but I think that the loadout was changed by the faction spawn.
It's definitely a stunning ship. I do think the Ascendancy Star Destroyer is overlooked too! I think it's better than the Venator in every way! - Charlie
I don’t think the hands ships are Op by themselves, but their fleets and playstyle of just jumping in, sniping everything with peltasts and then emergency jumping out before the ascendancy’s and other frontlines take too much damage, very good against both small ship factions like maldrood because of high output from the peltasts able to 1-2 shot most no hard point ships and good against large ships because can destroy important Hpoints in one shot I love the peltasts, I wouldn’t say EotH is OP but definitely very good At what it does
I'm finding The Secutor Star Destroyer seems to have received a nice buff in power and fire power. It may not be the most powerful but it seems to be the most buffed. I like using them they are ship to bring in when you want a good amount of fighter/bomber squadrons and great firepower. The Endurance vs a Venator. That would be like the latest Aircraft Carrier in the world today going against a WWII Aircraft Carrier. The Endurance should decimate the Venator with ease. In TR missiles and any solid projectiles aren't nearly as damaging as they are in AOTR. Which is nice at times when going up against Victory 1's and thinking oh shit my ships are screwed. 22:45 minutes seconds in and I am liking this vid a lot. I like how you tell the differences in each and if one is older, newer, etc. Seems The Empire finally realized with the Rak Ehell that "Wow Ion Cannons are pretty damned amazing" The Battle of The SSD's reminded me of The Yoden Mod. LOL I'm not sure how many people will agree but a super laser on a SSD or any ship seems lame and over powered. Like an easy quick way to being unimaginative. If a ship is going to have a "Super Laser" the perfect example of balance would be The Chiss/Empire of The Hand's Peltast. Yeah its giant cannon is nuts but it as a ship isn't the toughest. Yet The Eclipse and Sovereign with that much hull, shields, and other weapons is kind of that Dumb OP take a big hammer approach to a super weapon. I watched the whole vid while working out in my room. You did a great job. My criticism of The Eclipse and Sovereign has nothing to do with you at all just letting you know. You did a great thorough review of comparing and contrasting the strengths and weaknesses of each ship. I did like how you put the Rak ehell against 2 Allegiances when you saw that in a one on one battle the Allegiance was decimated. It gave a great perspective on just how tough both 1 Rak ehell is against 1 Allegiance and then 2 Allegiances. The Rak ehell vs The Praetor II made a great point. Yeah you can have a ton of shields and ion cannons to take down your enemy's shields, but if you don't have the turbo lasers to back that up similarly equal hulled ship with more turbo lasers will probably win such as in The Praetor II vs The Rak ehell. Good one brother.
17:43 Yeah, switching the Victory 1 from antistarfighter concussion Missiles to purely anticapitalship Assault Concussion Missiles seems like it strips them of any unique identity.
ABSO-FRAKING-LUTELY loved and TRULY enjoyed watching this INCREDIBLY EPIC Space Battle right here!!!!!!!!!! Another one of my MOST ABSOLUTE favorites that I have watched SO fraking FAR......
Actually, I find that victory 1s are incredible shield strippers. Send a couple in ahead of an ISD 1 at say, a Golan 3 with *ridiculous* amounts of shielding, and they’ll have the shields stripped in a couple of volleys, in time for your ISD to come in and start annihilating hard points
Much like many of the Mon-Cala line & it's shield recharging ability. New Republic ships are designed to excel more in a fleet composition, rather than direct 1v1 damage. The Nebula has a LOT of firepower (note the ultra-heavy turbolaser), but needs to be surrounded by a fleet beside it to offset taking direct damage. TL;DR - Empire will always excel in 1v1 fights, because their ship designs take that into consideration. - Charlie
@@EcksToo sure but this gap is way too big to be a good representation of what the nebulas are capable in the actual books. Even if the ISD-s normally have higher 1v1 damage output in comparison, the Nebula should still be able to atleast put up a better fight as their shields and weaponry were designed to be complete upgrades over the star destroyer modules
The devs have a hard on for ISDs. They are simply more powerful than they reasonably should be. It´s not the Nebula it´s simply ISDs being stronger than they should be. Which is funny because for the Mon Cal ships they make the argument that they are outdated and should be weak. Nevermind the ISD I is as old.
@EcksToo I have an Idea: What about you vs Eck. Era-based 7vs7 match. So for example Era 1: 7 Carracks vs 7 Carracks Era 2: 7 Dreadnoughts vs 7 Dreadnoughts and so on So its just about who is the better tactician
I mean the Venator is like 60-70 years old by the time the endurance class is being used of course the endurance deletes it but I guess that would depend on the fighter/bomber complement the venator has if it’s the stranded ties then it’s over before it starts
It'd give a better account of itself if it had modern starfighters in it's hangers. Having older TIE variants makes it a bit of a shit-sandwich. Found that a fleet of Venators supported by a battlecruiser makes for a pretty good fleet however. I did a "Republic vessels only" campaign and it wasn't as hard as I thought it'd be.
The thing I don`'t understand with the Nebula is not how strong or weak it is comparison, there are probably good arguments for both sides and I don't have the lore knowledge. The thing I don't understand is, why does it cost more to build a worse ship, the Nebula, than building any of the ISDs.
Executors are either as heroes or built (Actually I think you may have to pay for and build even the hero versions now.) Eclipse is only as a Hero during the Emperor's reign (Used to be tied to Palpatine himself but the AI kept putting him on the ground and squandering the ship so they were considering changing that, but that was years ago since I last played, not sure if they pulled the trigger on that) Bellator is built by a few warlord factions who don't have the Executor, or as a hero for some others.
I like Nebulas being a bit weaker than ISDs. They're so much smaller - in terms of volume, theyre maybe one third the size. Even with many fewer consumables for extended service, and even with technological innovation, that's still a huge difference.
Question, In later updates, will the Star Destroyer get upgraded to get better Squadrons? Like era 1 starts with Tie fighters but later on they use Tie interceptors/tie defenders and so on
It's a good premise, but ultimately devalues advanced-era ships like the Majestic. Which are built to spawn better generation of fighters like the K-Wing and E-Wing. Why spend money to get a Majestic when a cheaper Venator can spawn the same fighters if built in the new era? etc. - Charlie
Seriously! It's supposed to be powerful enough to handily beat an ISD 1, and at least close to equal an ISD 2, enough that 2 nebulas should destroy an ISD 2. It's shields are pathetic when they're supposed to be phenomenal! WHYYYYYYYY?!
Fans *greatly* overstate how strong it's supposed to be, usually based on individual statements that they'd ignore for any other ship, especially considering they're given in some of the same places as other ships. When designing ships for the mod, we take into account given RPG stats, flavour text, and usage in-universe, but we also try to have some consistency there and find palces that are appropriate for it. The only indication that it should be "tanky" would be RPG stats that also put ships like the Battledragon above it in SotG from what I remember (I could be off on the specifics there), and put the Viscount as an easily cracked egg, but nobody ever argues we should use *those* stats as given. The Nebula is more fragile than other ships, but it has very high damage for its pop cap, *plus* power to weapons, and it outranges almost everything that doesn't belong to the Empire of the Hand. They're at their best when put with something tanky and obliterating stuff from the back line, which makes them easily able to take out even ISDIIs. But, you have to use them properly and use their strengths rather than just throw them directly into a brawling match with a much bigger ship. Charlie, here, is doing what basically everyone does wrong with the Nebula in the mod. He's basically ignoring all of their strengths to put them into a situation that highlights what they're *not* good at.
@@CoreyLoses I get that theory on paper, but in practice what I've found is that enemies tend to ignore beefier ships I put closer to them and will put all possible attention on my Nebulas because it's just so easy to kill them. It also becomes a problem, in my own opinion, where you need two NR capital ships at a higher pop cap cost to equate the overall performance of a single ISD - despite these ostensibly being objective improvements over the ISD's design or at least the technology put into its construction. Like, I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing, but I think the Nebula could really use a LITTLE more beefiness, even something as small as 1,000 more shield points, because as it is right now it's fragile enough that there's pretty much zero reason to build it when you could have another MC90 - which sucks, because a wide variety of ships is what I love about the NR.
Just watching this now and wow, it is so clear that not all of these ships got the same love from illustrators and designers. XD The Allegiance has that nice and classic ISD design, and then the EX-F looks cool and intriguing and "modern", and then the Praetor looks like someone spent five minutes with some crayons making cardboard origami. XD
Indeed, the whole selling point of the Nebula in the OEU was that it could engage a ImpStar Deuce and win in a much more compact package compared to the MC-80s and MC-90s.
im running a Empire of the Hand on Admiral difficulty play through of Essence of War Galactic Conquest. I see that huge ship on here that the Chis can build but in game i do not see the option. It is still Era one for me (im not sure how to progress) and I have a dreadnought level ship yard; do I just need to progress the Era system in order to unlock that ship and how would I move forward as Empire of the Hand?
era progressions happen every 10 weeks, you can also try researching new tech on some planets, but not sure if that applies to the empire of the hand, just the new rep. and empire i think.
@@tomasgonzalezl2872 with the planets I currently control there are no new buildings I can build that I dont already have at least a few built. I don't even see it as a grayed out option, there is just no ship of that size in the Era I am in. And really the era progresses every 10 weeks? So by week 50 the New Republic has access to its new class capital ships?
I don't what the best ship is, but I'll tell ya this: Peltasts & Chafs are BEASTS. Most of the EotH ships are pretty good, but those ships just take it a step further.
Nebulas lost to Star Destroyers because they're a specialized ship while the ISD is a ship of the line. Nebulas have way better range, when you put them that close to an ISD, that bonus is voided.
@@stopaskingforrealnames3853 that may be true, but sometimes things need to be done for gameplay reasons. This way there's actual strategy instead of just throwing ships at the enemy.
@@attilathehun5067 What's so bad about putting ships that are supposed to be one a 1:1 on a 1:1? That doesn't imply one creams the other, it just means its a grind where they should be killing each other at roughly the same rate. Besides, you can't throw a nebula of that scale at everything, anyway.
@@stopaskingforrealnames3853 Because the new Republic already has tanky new class ships, the Mon Cala ships. It's more fun to have different ships that do different roles instead of them all having the same.
I honestly think the Republic class star destroyer is the best cause it's more like a carrier, and we know how star fighter combat players an important role
The Nebula SD is better than the ISD in the a fleet composition. The ISD is supposed to shine in 1v1s and the Nebula also outrages the ISD. The Nebula does more damage but is just not very tanky
The bellator would have won the fight at the end if it had been able to use its natural strategy. The other ships are for battles of endurance, but the bellator's strength is its speed. If it had been able to retreat and stage sweeping broadsides with its enemies, it would have won.
Also the Venator seems more suitable for broadside engagements due to main guns firing arc. See how it was wasting its turbolaser shots on starfighters.
If that is what the nebula is supposed to be tahts entirely the doing of the mod authors, because nowhere in lore is it said that it isnt a good all around combatant, and in fact its more or less explicitly described as doing everything better than an ISD.
Edit: They should add no fighter mode. I think honestly nebula is not more powerful than isd 2. Better shields, and optimized crews but lack guns compared to imperial. Sometimes intentions / on paper design do not match reality.
Secutor is under Empire. Not familiar with how you can build it in Galactic Conquest, but the ship is in a weird class of it's own, that it didn't fit well in VS. It's the strongest fleet carrier of the lot, but by too much imo. And yet, despite it's size. It's never meant to go against battlecrusiers. So I didn't include it in the video. - Charlie
while these videos are great fun they are not really reliable in terms of the actual combat capability, because we're basically ignoring the fact that they are supposed to be used in a fleet. it literally says in the ship description that they are to be used behind tankier ships or to flank. still a great video though ^^
Wheres the Venator? I know its a Battle Carrier that has the Star Destroyer name, but still Nvm there was a Venator, i was tired when I made this comment lol
In the movies you see big battleships fall out of favor for ships that can carry tons of fighters. Even in the base Empire at War the rebellion ships carried much more and better fighters than the empire did. In thrawns revenge, and legends in general, and even in the new movies, everybody just builds giant ships. You're seeing that even SSD's are vulnerable to fighters. Really every normal sized ship should never have exceeded the size of an ISD. Allegience didn't fix any of it's problems which was lack of fighters and lack of good fighters. When you think about it, a Venator should easily be able to destroy an ISD due to it's fighter compliment.
@@themediocrebattlefrontplay3438 the viscount beats anything on on one, only thing that kills it is the eclipse with the super laser, but just sluging it out the viscount wins
Even in 3.1, Nebula stinks. Both it and the Republic SD need a boost and/or have their pop requirements adjusted. Nebula should’ve be a heavy frigate/heavy Cruiser with around 20-22 unit cost and the Republic SD should be around 26 as it’s comparable to a MC80B. Never understood the reasoning behind the current configs for both ships RN
Did you guess correctly who would win? Let me know what your results were in the comments below, I'll give them a read! 🙂
For anyone looking for timecodes of each fight, you can find them below. Just FYI, spoilers!
🔹 *Imperial-I vs Nebula 🔹 **2:55*
🔹 *Endurance vs Venator 🔹 **7:18*
🔹 *Endurance vs Ascendancy 🔹 **9:53*
🔹 *Victory-I vs Enforcer 🔹 **14:02*
🔹 *Imperial-II vs Tector 🔹 **18:32*
🔹 *EX-F fleet vs Allegiance Fleet 🔹 **22:23*
🔹 *EX-F vs Praetor-II 🔹 **32:10*
🔹 *?!?!?! 🔹 **38:13*
Wheres tour ecktoo merch charlie?
@EcksToo Hey Charlie amazing video my man, at the end you said that the Republic Star Destroyer can go 1v1 with an ISD-2 and win then the Nebula. How about an 1v1 match with the Nebula against the RSD (Republic Star Destroyer) to see if your right?
@@loganwhitney8471 the nebula wouldn't stand a chance
Can you send where I can download the mods?
The irony about the Tector versus Imperial II argument is that because the Tector takes up fewer unit slots in a fleet, you actually have enough space to throw a Ton-Falk escort carrier in and make up the difference in fighter support. It's more credits expensive and requires two ships instead of one, but I think it's a worth while trade.
its even more interesting isd 2 has ions few but they help a lot since the tector doesn't have them, but the tector medium guns shoot faster than the octoples so it can cripple the isd faster
@@kR-qj7rw It's a combination of greater durability and superior fire saturation. The ISD IIs octuples fire slowly and have the "all or nothing" problem where either all the shots from a gun will hit or miss in a group. The Tector doesn't have that problem because it has more guns, all of them fire faster, and it has greater durability to compensate for the lack of ion weapons. It's a tank, meant to draw fire and soak damage while spreading its own firepower around to hit multiple targets and keep them pinned for more direct damage focused ships to finish them off.
Tector is very underrated
I love grouping ships together like this to make up for weaknesses. the best fleets feel like commanding a single ship
In Legends the Nebula was the cream of the crop. This is a game that balances things out because if it was like in Legends just a small fleet of these ships would be able to wipe out a fleet twice its size. Though in games they need to make thing balanced so one faction isn't too powerful. Though from what I have seen the Nebula would have won at long range fire, rather than close range fire, in game.
It's unfortunate the ISD I refit model isn't buildable in game. It would be the best of both when it comes to ISD armament, combining the I's ion cannon power with the II's overwhelming octuple turbolasers. The only examples of that we get are two hero units, Tanda Pryl for the EA and Malcor Brashin for the Empire, and both are only available in Era 1.
Just started checking out this channel, so I don't know if this has already been done: It would be interesting to see different fleets of ships go against one another after equating cost. E.g., a number of nebulas vs a number of ISDs when credits are approximately equal.
I'm not sure if I disagree with Corey making the nebula weaker by comparison, or if the issue is that charlies not throwing fighters into the mix-because thats arguably part of what makes these ships deadly.
In some battles, just small maneuvers could completely change the result. When it comes to Star Destroyers you’ll want it to face its enemy head on so all its weapons can fire, not just a broadside where it’ll only fire half of its weapons like around 28:14
Nice video nonetheless Charlie!
I imagine Corey head desked this whole video. Fun to watch though!
just had a thought of a video that would take a while to make but would be a nice idea: do a tournament where worst seed is lowest pop cap and vice versa, but in the actual battles make the pop cap of the lower pop ships equal to their opponents by just adding the same kind of ship to each fleet until it is equal. (i might be english but my english is terrible, so sorry about that)
None of them are really the MOST powerful. They all have different roles which they play in a fleet. Pitting them 1v1 isn't the best way to show off each ships strengths and weaknesses.
using you're logic then nothing is the MOST.
I've done a lot of tests like this while trying to create my own perfect fleet build. The Imperial I is actually the most powerful of the ISD frames for one-on-one combat because of its ion cannons. The Imperial II is actually the worst. The Tector beats out the Imp II because of its stronger shields and overall greater number of fast firing guns. Against larger numbers of smaller ships, the Tector takes the win, again because of its fast guns, but the ISD I takes last because its ion cannons become overkill against small vessels. The ISD II was middle of the pack this time and only lost out to the Tector because most of its firepower is tied up in the slow firing, burst damage octuple turbolasers. Granted, this was just testing the ships themselves, not their fighter compliments. It isn't a fair fight when fighters are around because the star destroyers keep dedicating some of their main guns to shooting down the fighters, meaning it was impossible to get an accurate shot for shot calculation between the ships.
48 minutes of eckstoo, very delicious
Agreed
Indeed
Wow 2 mods replied to me? Am I dreaming?
Good to now that for the month i was gone the simp army thrived
@@trufuzeyt1850 yes, I don’t exist
I remember when the VSD 1 was the most atrociously op anti-fighter shop due the missiles being made EaW concussion missiles.
I mean I'm pretty sure the original WEG system didn't specify "Assault concussion missiles" I would have to ask a WEG expert if they had a penalty to hit fighters and compare their damage with fighter launched conc missiles.b I always thought they were SUPPOSED to macross missile massacre their way through fighters.
I could be wrong, but I’ve only seen the Nebula vs ISD1 fights so far, but the first thing I notice in that in game the Nebula has very weak armor & shields, as well as weapons, compared to it’s listed stats in universe. I mean the whole idea is that it was suppose to be able to, by itself, take on any ship short of a SSD or full fleets, but it seems the mod gutted the specs, likely for game balance issue.
While this is understandable from a gameplay point of view, I wish the fleet mode you are using, had an option to have ships spec’ed out in universe, so for example you could look at a fleet makeup in a cannon battle and run various “what if” scenarios.
I've thought for a while the Nebula has been a little bit underpowered for a while now. It dishes out good damage but is itself so flimsy that it really struggles to keep dishing out that damage. Id say they need to up it to a 32 cap cost and then give it a relatively significant buff so it can beat an ISD 1.
If Nebula seems weak to you, you are using it incorrectly. While you can call it a fragile ship, it has great firepower (mostly in hull damaging weapons) and solid range. Best thing you can do as NR is putting it to the second line, behind some tough, ion-heavy ships like Home One type or MC90.
@@zbynekkowalski2202 it's great as a damage dealer when placed behind a home one
@@zbynekkowalski2202 I said it can dish out good damage, I don't think that needs changing. But it got annhilated here by an ISD-1 which is only 1 cost cap larger than the nebula. The ISD has almost the same damage output while having basically double the total shield and hull. I just think bring it up to 32 cap and then give it the ability to withstand a little bit of punishment too. Then it could go toe to toe with ISD's which, because after all it was designed to fight ISD 2 and here it comfortably lost to an ISD 1.
@@AytonGang Well, there's reason why Corey doesn't consider 1v1 as good tests of ship abilities. ISD1 is (at least according to me) the strongest ship in it's class due to it's ion-heavy weaponry which allows it to deal easily with other ships and can be easily used as a part of fleet as well as on it's own. Nebula on the other hand profits strongly from supporting fleet and it's definitely skill-heavier than ISD1, but when used properly, it can easily deal damage worth two or three times of it's popcap
Much like many of the Mon-Cala line & it's shield recharging ability. New Republic ships are designed to excel more in a fleet composition, rather than direct 1v1 damage. The Nebula has a LOT of firepower (note the ultra-heavy turbolaser), but needs to be surrounded by a fleet beside it to offset taking direct damage.
TL;DR - Empire will always excel in 1v1 fights, because their ship designs take that into consideration.
- Charlie
The thing with the Nebula that a lot of ppl don’t get is that it’s strengths lie at range. A Nebula (and also the Majestic class cruiser) can land as many shots at long range as an ISD can at medium. In short, one could say that they outrange the ISD. Having the Nebula and ISD start at medium range from each other, it’s obvious that the ISD would most likely come out on top
Right, they are similar to the CIS Munificet frigates and Recusanys destroyers or the Chiss Peltasr SD: they excel at range and get weaker as they close tge distance. 1vs1 like these are useless as they don't consider fleet copositions and tactics at all.
9:00 everyone seems to forget the Venator was only 3 years old at the beginning of the Empire. It should still be VERY combat effective especially in the early GCW years and give any other larger ship a run for its money, especially in terms of fighters and bombers, all these mods only give Venators a paltry amount of fighters and bombers. Remember ISDs were produced at the end of the Clone Wars and still remained very combat relevant 20 years later. Even the other factions like the New Republic and EotH start making things like the Nebula and Ascendancy which are just Venator analogues.
Venator's are also not that large relative to other star destroyers. ISD's are pretty much a straight upgrade over them.
TR is geting an update in a few weeks-months, so the timing is a bit ... unfortunate, but my guess right now is the Rakhell/Seronan ISD.
I think the acendecy is supposed to have chiss fighters, rather than the bad tie loadout. Not sure if it would have mattered vs endurance but I think that the loadout was changed by the faction spawn.
The rake hell has got to be the one of the best
It's definitely a stunning ship. I do think the Ascendancy Star Destroyer is overlooked too! I think it's better than the Venator in every way!
- Charlie
honestly i think most of the empire of the hand's ships are a bit op imo
@@EcksToo but the empire of the hand ships are all very well designed
I don’t think the hands ships are Op by themselves, but their fleets and playstyle of just jumping in, sniping everything with peltasts and then emergency jumping out before the ascendancy’s and other frontlines take too much damage, very good against both small ship factions like maldrood because of high output from the peltasts able to 1-2 shot most no hard point ships and good against large ships because can destroy important Hpoints in one shot
I love the peltasts, I wouldn’t say EotH is OP but definitely very good At what it does
Charlie do something similar but you do the same pop cap worth of ship for every battle
I'm finding The Secutor Star Destroyer seems to have received a nice buff in power and fire power. It may not be the most powerful but it seems to be the most buffed. I like using them they are ship to bring in when you want a good amount of fighter/bomber squadrons and great firepower. The Endurance vs a Venator. That would be like the latest Aircraft Carrier in the world today going against a WWII Aircraft Carrier. The Endurance should decimate the Venator with ease.
In TR missiles and any solid projectiles aren't nearly as damaging as they are in AOTR. Which is nice at times when going up against Victory 1's and thinking oh shit my ships are screwed.
22:45 minutes seconds in and I am liking this vid a lot. I like how you tell the differences in each and if one is older, newer, etc.
Seems The Empire finally realized with the Rak Ehell that "Wow Ion Cannons are pretty damned amazing"
The Battle of The SSD's reminded me of The Yoden Mod. LOL I'm not sure how many people will agree but a super laser on a SSD or any ship seems lame and over powered. Like an easy quick way to being unimaginative. If a ship is going to have a "Super Laser" the perfect example of balance would be The Chiss/Empire of The Hand's Peltast. Yeah its giant cannon is nuts but it as a ship isn't the toughest. Yet The Eclipse and Sovereign with that much hull, shields, and other weapons is kind of that Dumb OP take a big hammer approach to a super weapon.
I watched the whole vid while working out in my room. You did a great job. My criticism of The Eclipse and Sovereign has nothing to do with you at all just letting you know. You did a great thorough review of comparing and contrasting the strengths and weaknesses of each ship. I did like how you put the Rak ehell against 2 Allegiances when you saw that in a one on one battle the Allegiance was decimated. It gave a great perspective on just how tough both 1 Rak ehell is against 1 Allegiance and then 2 Allegiances. The Rak ehell vs The Praetor II made a great point. Yeah you can have a ton of shields and ion cannons to take down your enemy's shields, but if you don't have the turbo lasers to back that up similarly equal hulled ship with more turbo lasers will probably win such as in The Praetor II vs The Rak ehell. Good one brother.
17:43 Yeah, switching the Victory 1 from antistarfighter concussion Missiles to purely anticapitalship Assault Concussion Missiles seems like it strips them of any unique identity.
ABSO-FRAKING-LUTELY loved and TRULY enjoyed watching this INCREDIBLY EPIC Space Battle right here!!!!!!!!!!
Another one of my MOST ABSOLUTE favorites that I have watched SO fraking FAR......
If I had to bet it would either be the praetor or that one with the insane ammount of ion damage
I love the ISD II, but everyone knows how to target the Octuple batteries immediately when the shields are down, completely gutting its firepower.
19:30 Wait. MEDIUM octuple Turbolasers? Those are classed as heavy in most lore stuff.
VERY epic, Charlie.
Actually, I find that victory 1s are incredible shield strippers. Send a couple in ahead of an ISD 1 at say, a Golan 3 with *ridiculous* amounts of shielding, and they’ll have the shields stripped in a couple of volleys, in time for your ISD to come in and start annihilating hard points
Is that the Nebula Class Star Defender at 0:13?
That's the ascendancy Star Destroyer. Basically a juiced up version of the Venator, with elements of Victory-II firepower!
- Charlie
@@EcksToo cool, thanks
I swear in an older version the nebula was easily able to take on an ISD
A Nebula being bitten by an ISD-II is already sort of a joke, but an ISD-I, seriously?
Much like many of the Mon-Cala line & it's shield recharging ability. New Republic ships are designed to excel more in a fleet composition, rather than direct 1v1 damage. The Nebula has a LOT of firepower (note the ultra-heavy turbolaser), but needs to be surrounded by a fleet beside it to offset taking direct damage.
TL;DR - Empire will always excel in 1v1 fights, because their ship designs take that into consideration.
- Charlie
@@EcksToo sure but this gap is way too big to be a good representation of what the nebulas are capable in the actual books. Even if the ISD-s normally have higher 1v1 damage output in comparison, the Nebula should still be able to atleast put up a better fight as their shields and weaponry were designed to be complete upgrades over the star destroyer modules
@@khalduras784 Yeah, Wookieepedia lore exlpicity states that the Nebula should be able to hand a 1:1 fight versus any ISD
The devs have a hard on for ISDs. They are simply more powerful than they reasonably should be. It´s not the Nebula it´s simply ISDs being stronger than they should be.
Which is funny because for the Mon Cal ships they make the argument that they are outdated and should be weak. Nevermind the ISD I is as old.
@@XMysticHerox Stupid fanboys
@EcksToo I have an Idea: What about you vs Eck. Era-based 7vs7 match. So for example
Era 1: 7 Carracks vs 7 Carracks
Era 2: 7 Dreadnoughts vs 7 Dreadnoughts
and so on
So its just about who is the better tactician
The Victory I is meant for long range bombardment of ISDs and battlecruisers / SSDs
I mean the Venator is like 60-70 years old by the time the endurance class is being used of course the endurance deletes it but I guess that would depend on the fighter/bomber complement the venator has if it’s the stranded ties then it’s over before it starts
It'd give a better account of itself if it had modern starfighters in it's hangers. Having older TIE variants makes it a bit of a shit-sandwich. Found that a fleet of Venators supported by a battlecruiser makes for a pretty good fleet however. I did a "Republic vessels only" campaign and it wasn't as hard as I thought it'd be.
The thing I don`'t understand with the Nebula is not how strong or weak it is comparison, there are probably good arguments for both sides and I don't have the lore knowledge.
The thing I don't understand is, why does it cost more to build a worse ship, the Nebula, than building any of the ISDs.
I am rather new to Thrawn's Revenge, how exactly would you get those last four Super Star Destroyers in your average Galactic Conquest game?
Executors are either as heroes or built (Actually I think you may have to pay for and build even the hero versions now.) Eclipse is only as a Hero during the Emperor's reign (Used to be tied to Palpatine himself but the AI kept putting him on the ground and squandering the ship so they were considering changing that, but that was years ago since I last played, not sure if they pulled the trigger on that) Bellator is built by a few warlord factions who don't have the Executor, or as a hero for some others.
I like Nebulas being a bit weaker than ISDs. They're so much smaller - in terms of volume, theyre maybe one third the size. Even with many fewer consumables for extended service, and even with technological innovation, that's still a huge difference.
14:25 yeah I think the faction swap issue caused trouble for the EotH ships.
I was hoping for Vindicator vs Enforcer since they're siblings.
Question, In later updates, will the Star Destroyer get upgraded to get better Squadrons? Like era 1 starts with Tie fighters but later on they use Tie interceptors/tie defenders and so on
that´s a really good idea
It's a good premise, but ultimately devalues advanced-era ships like the Majestic. Which are built to spawn better generation of fighters like the K-Wing and E-Wing. Why spend money to get a Majestic when a cheaper Venator can spawn the same fighters if built in the new era? etc.
- Charlie
@@EcksToo alright and thanks
I'm pretty sure the new Republic has a research option to upgrade bombers to bwings at a certain point (I think)
The venator and its super laser is obviously the most powerful duh
Look what they've done to my child Nebula
NGL, it actually looks kinda slick in Imperial gray. Definitely that "Imperial Venator effect" as I call it.
You kinda messed up the test between the endurance and venator. Other than that, enjoyable video mate
Day 3,844 of asking Corey to buff the Nebula
Seriously! It's supposed to be powerful enough to handily beat an ISD 1, and at least close to equal an ISD 2, enough that 2 nebulas should destroy an ISD 2.
It's shields are pathetic when they're supposed to be phenomenal! WHYYYYYYYY?!
Fans *greatly* overstate how strong it's supposed to be, usually based on individual statements that they'd ignore for any other ship, especially considering they're given in some of the same places as other ships. When designing ships for the mod, we take into account given RPG stats, flavour text, and usage in-universe, but we also try to have some consistency there and find palces that are appropriate for it. The only indication that it should be "tanky" would be RPG stats that also put ships like the Battledragon above it in SotG from what I remember (I could be off on the specifics there), and put the Viscount as an easily cracked egg, but nobody ever argues we should use *those* stats as given.
The Nebula is more fragile than other ships, but it has very high damage for its pop cap, *plus* power to weapons, and it outranges almost everything that doesn't belong to the Empire of the Hand. They're at their best when put with something tanky and obliterating stuff from the back line, which makes them easily able to take out even ISDIIs. But, you have to use them properly and use their strengths rather than just throw them directly into a brawling match with a much bigger ship.
Charlie, here, is doing what basically everyone does wrong with the Nebula in the mod. He's basically ignoring all of their strengths to put them into a situation that highlights what they're *not* good at.
@@CoreyLoses I get that theory on paper, but in practice what I've found is that enemies tend to ignore beefier ships I put closer to them and will put all possible attention on my Nebulas because it's just so easy to kill them. It also becomes a problem, in my own opinion, where you need two NR capital ships at a higher pop cap cost to equate the overall performance of a single ISD - despite these ostensibly being objective improvements over the ISD's design or at least the technology put into its construction.
Like, I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing, but I think the Nebula could really use a LITTLE more beefiness, even something as small as 1,000 more shield points, because as it is right now it's fragile enough that there's pretty much zero reason to build it when you could have another MC90 - which sucks, because a wide variety of ships is what I love about the NR.
Every star destroyer I wanted to win lost:
Nebula lost to ISD
Ascendancy lost to Endurance
Venator lost to Endurance
Enforcer lost to Victory
Just watching this now and wow, it is so clear that not all of these ships got the same love from illustrators and designers. XD The Allegiance has that nice and classic ISD design, and then the EX-F looks cool and intriguing and "modern", and then the Praetor looks like someone spent five minutes with some crayons making cardboard origami. XD
nebula was really nerfed in thrawn revenge cuz its usually able to take on ISD 2 with ease
Indeed, the whole selling point of the Nebula in the OEU was that it could engage a ImpStar Deuce and win in a much more compact package compared to the MC-80s and MC-90s.
im running a Empire of the Hand on Admiral difficulty play through of Essence of War Galactic Conquest. I see that huge ship on here that the Chis can build but in game i do not see the option. It is still Era one for me (im not sure how to progress) and I have a dreadnought level ship yard; do I just need to progress the Era system in order to unlock that ship and how would I move forward as Empire of the Hand?
era progressions happen every 10 weeks, you can also try researching new tech on some planets, but not sure if that applies to the empire of the hand, just the new rep. and empire i think.
@@tomasgonzalezl2872 with the planets I currently control there are no new buildings I can build that I dont already have at least a few built. I don't even see it as a grayed out option, there is just no ship of that size in the Era I am in. And really the era progresses every 10 weeks? So by week 50 the New Republic has access to its new class capital ships?
The ISD-2 is the best when used properly
Nebula Star Destroyer: NO
I actually installed submode to make nebula more powerful bu at a cost of 50 ponits
I could see the Vindicator going far, but I’m quite partial to the Ascendancy
I guss it depends on the fighter load out but i think the secutor when used right
I don't what the best ship is, but I'll tell ya this: Peltasts & Chafs are BEASTS. Most of the EotH ships are pretty good, but those ships just take it a step further.
Nebulas lost to Star Destroyers because they're a specialized ship while the ISD is a ship of the line. Nebulas have way better range, when you put them that close to an ISD, that bonus is voided.
There doesn't seem to be any lore implications from the Nebula's wiki. Its just purely designed to fight an ISD 1:1
@@stopaskingforrealnames3853 that may be true, but sometimes things need to be done for gameplay reasons. This way there's actual strategy instead of just throwing ships at the enemy.
@@attilathehun5067 What's so bad about putting ships that are supposed to be one a 1:1 on a 1:1? That doesn't imply one creams the other, it just means its a grind where they should be killing each other at roughly the same rate. Besides, you can't throw a nebula of that scale at everything, anyway.
@@attilathehun5067 Second comment incoming due to recent revelation: *especially when a Nebula class costs more*, unless the update changed that.
@@stopaskingforrealnames3853 Because the new Republic already has tanky new class ships, the Mon Cala ships. It's more fun to have different ships that do different roles instead of them all having the same.
I honestly think the Republic class star destroyer is the best cause it's more like a carrier, and we know how star fighter combat players an important role
The Nebula SD is better than the ISD in the a fleet composition. The ISD is supposed to shine in 1v1s and the Nebula also outrages the ISD. The Nebula does more damage but is just not very tanky
The nebula should still do better even in 1v1's because the Nebula is also supposed to shine in 1v1's lorewise.
The bellator would have won the fight at the end if it had been able to use its natural strategy. The other ships are for battles of endurance, but the bellator's strength is its speed. If it had been able to retreat and stage sweeping broadsides with its enemies, it would have won.
Where do I find this fleet battle mode in TR 3.0 ? Haven't played this for a couple of months
Top button on main menu, I think it says galactic battles or something
@@flamerolburns Thank you🙏🏻
I need one with the aggressor now
The Nebula class Star Destroyer should be able to beat down the ISD MK1 and MK2
They were even able to hold their own against Dreadnaughts.
13:00 ...Are you sure the Ascendancy's launching the correct fighters? Just plain imperial fighters (In imperial green) and not Chiss ones?
I think this would be more fair if you wouldn't physically control the fighters and let them both just do whatever they want.
The AI were not micromanaged. Simply instructed to copy whatever the enemy AI fighters were doing! :)
On the contrary neither side is really achieving full effectiveness due to the AI in this game mode being a bit crap.
the sovereign is 15km the eclipse is 17.5km and the executor is 19km
why has your ascendancy got tie fighters and bomber instead of the chiss fighters and bombers
HI GUYS new here where do i down load THRAWNS Revenge please is it on stream
i like a classic and i find the red victory star destroyer very classy indeed
yeah crimson command victories are just perfect imo
Nebulae is much smaller than the ISD and is supposed to used as part of a rebel fleet rather than a all around combatant that is good at most things.
Also the Venator seems more suitable for broadside engagements due to main guns firing arc. See how it was wasting its turbolaser shots on starfighters.
Victory I's missile batteries can track smaller targets easier tho.
If that is what the nebula is supposed to be tahts entirely the doing of the mod authors, because nowhere in lore is it said that it isnt a good all around combatant, and in fact its more or less explicitly described as doing everything better than an ISD.
The people who disliked are the people with PCs so bad they can’t play thrawn’s revenge/EAW
I’m Partial to the Bellator but I don’t really think it’s gonna be the best.
RSD vs ISD and RSD vs NSD would be nice
I think the nebula would have a much better chance if its fighters would kill the bombers instead of attacking the ISD
Edit: They should add no fighter mode.
I think honestly nebula is not more powerful than isd 2. Better shields, and optimized crews but lack guns compared to imperial. Sometimes intentions / on paper design do not match reality.
Was that eclipse 1 or 2 ?
Knowing Imperial doctrine, I'm going to guess 'the biggest one'
What is the ship under the Secutor and how is it gained?
Secutor is under Empire. Not familiar with how you can build it in Galactic Conquest, but the ship is in a weird class of it's own, that it didn't fit well in VS. It's the strongest fleet carrier of the lot, but by too much imo. And yet, despite it's size. It's never meant to go against battlecrusiers. So I didn't include it in the video.
- Charlie
@@EcksToo what faction is that unknown carrier?
you can build the Secutor class with the pentastar alignement.
@@tomasgonzalezl2872 No, the one under it
forgot the exact name, but you can build it with the Eriadu authority
18:51: What fighters?
awesome video
Except the venator ignored his commands for the first 7 or seconds.
while these videos are great fun they are not really reliable in terms of the actual combat capability, because we're basically ignoring the fact that they are supposed to be used in a fleet. it literally says in the ship description that they are to be used behind tankier ships or to flank. still a great video though ^^
my favorite is the crimson victs
Wheres the Venator? I know its a Battle Carrier that has the Star Destroyer name, but still
Nvm there was a Venator, i was tired when I made this comment lol
the mon mothma star destroyer vs dominator
Can you please add the links for the game and mods please?
WHAT ABOUT CIS VS THRAWN SPACE SHUTTLE?
In the movies you see big battleships fall out of favor for ships that can carry tons of fighters. Even in the base Empire at War the rebellion ships carried much more and better fighters than the empire did.
In thrawns revenge, and legends in general, and even in the new movies, everybody just builds giant ships. You're seeing that even SSD's are vulnerable to fighters.
Really every normal sized ship should never have exceeded the size of an ISD. Allegience didn't fix any of it's problems which was lack of fighters and lack of good fighters. When you think about it, a Venator should easily be able to destroy an ISD due to it's fighter compliment.
what about the new republic super star destroyer? (forgot the name)
They had two Guardian and Lusankya
@@pooppoop6546 i mean the mon cali one
@@themediocrebattlefrontplay3438 the viscount beats anything on on one, only thing that kills it is the eclipse with the super laser, but just sluging it out the viscount wins
Even in 3.1, Nebula stinks. Both it and the Republic SD need a boost and/or have their pop requirements adjusted. Nebula should’ve be a heavy frigate/heavy Cruiser with around 20-22 unit cost and the Republic SD should be around 26 as it’s comparable to a MC80B. Never understood the reasoning behind the current configs for both ships RN
So who else spawns venators as the rebellion and then pretends that it's crewed by good happy clone-bois who defied O66 instead of random rebels🥺👉👈
ISD mark 2
Eclipse. End of video.
Space Doritos
Where were the Assertor?
you forgot the vengeance
That's bullshyt the venator is better than the endurance. Corey is crazy😤🤬
The Nebula has a lot more range, so it can easily kill a ISD1 if it can make use of it's range. That's where the Nebula shines in TR.
No Nashada Star Destroyer! Sad~_~
Pardon me but I thought the SSD are powerful
Hello there
general kenobi
You are a bold one
Thawn revenge is best by far