I can't believe that it took TH-cam this long to finally recommend this video for me but I'm really glad you took the time and effort to do this video!
I'm successfully working with the Demo, and I think I go to get it, so great is the work I was able to do with this plugin. Although I noticed (and informed the developer, so I hope to get hints/solutions) that even disabling the optimizations, some crackle still present in the exported audio. Of course I'm very active to find/try all the solution. BTW I also opened a feature request in Cokcos forum, to be able to insert a post-fader FX. At the end we are in 2023 and many needs are severely different than the ones we had in 2009. So I hope Justin will give this opportunity in the future, and we will save time. I hope many can join that topic so everyone can describe needs and importance. Important thing to notice is that this plugin can also downmix Dolby Pro Logic II.
Thanks to you I have been using in Reaper since the Fiedler Composer came out and it is working perfect. I give thanks for you channel. No one else is really talking about Composer. This has saved me so much time and money. I thought I was going to have to go MADI into another computer dedicated for the Atmos Renderer. Game changer.
09:09 the same way in which you need to work in a full ambisonics project using plugins like DearVR and also IEM (i've made several productions in this technology and in that way) because the mixer must be ignored. Positioning the object into the space first then the controls are directly into the plugin. Another way to mix when the audio source is "objectized". The "WOW" signal 😉 12:35 THAT's why I'm asking to Cockos to implement it natively ... it's the best way, although with this plugin: chapeau!! 16:05 Objects are the way to go when you want to position the instruments into the audio scene recreating a kind of Stage. And those are scalable. Viceversa the BED is used more for compatibility with the classical systems 5.1, 7.1 etc. and it's not scalable (it's just mixed-down, which it's not the same thing). 17:37 as Dolby Licensee, when i discussed with Dolby (at the time of 5.1 and 7.1) they clearly told me: in Music the loudspeakers should be full bandwidth excluding the LFE. So that in Music it was turned into 5.0 and 7.0. Of course as you said: it's not mandatory, BUT it's a clear indication. That's why the loudspeakers in Amtos Music are required to be full bandwidth 34:00 WOW! Very nice!
@@michaelgwagner 14:24 Back to re-watch this video :-) Not necessary to create folders etc. When using Atmos: use atmos :-) indeed you have the "volume" up there into the Beam Window. that' one is the control one should use :-) 15:38 in music LFE is normally dropped and Full bandwidth loudspeakers are used. I see you have excellently specified it at 17:36
@Reaper-Tutorials Yes, thanks. I added the folder trick because that is the one thing most people trip over. They start playing with the faders and then wonder why nothing happens. I also always work with the controls in the Beam plugin.
UPDATE: Good News Michael. Soon a new version of Fiedler will be released and he solved the crackles. i mean: not necessary to change anything in the Reaper's settings. I did test the Beta 4 yesterday night and it was astonishingly good. That guy is working excellently!
wow! Michael, you are a lifesaver! We've been transitioning our facility over from Mac computers using ProTools to Windows and Reaper. Then, when the whole Atmos thing blew up this past year, I thought "oh no!...what have I done?"...thinking that I had to revert everything back...but this is absolutely wonderful news for me! I also had toyed with the idea of trying to use the "ASIO link protool" to route things, but that just looked absolutely confusing to me...this completely made my day! So clear and understandable. Thanks!
Thanks! Glad that I could be helpful. Yes, that ASIO link pro hack is a bit of a hack. :) Plus it is no longer supported by anybody so there is always the risk that it will stop working.
Thank you for these priceless videos! I think it's great that you focus a lot on Dolby Atmos. I mean, sure no single technology is around forever, but Dolby seems to be THE main player on surround formats. If I'm not mistaken, Dolby Digital 5.1 was introduced in 1992, and it is still being used today!
Thank you very much for this well explained tutorial. Just one question: Channel 4 (LFE) of Dolby Atmos composer ESSENTIAL cannot be activated. Creating an LFE channel in Reaper is no problem, but can't send to channel 4. Any solution?
The essential version does not provide manual lfe support. You would have to upgrade. But the lfe is generally not used in music production so you could just work without it.
@@michaelgwagner ok teacher Yes, I understand that it can work perfectly for music production, but it is not suitable for audio post-production of a film, because channel 4 is completely inactive in rendering, among other non-minor details. Anyway, today I installed the full trial version for 14 days and I'm seeing the differences compared to the essential one. I recognize that it is a very good tool and that for the cost of €249 it gives spectacular results and offers a wider workflow and more independence on an audiovisual or audio project for games. I thank him from the bottom of my heart for his attention and I want to congratulate him for his pedagogical and understandable way of explaining in his tutorials. You are an oasis in the desert! Many, many thanks from Barcelona
For anyone missing the fader or ability to solo tracks: if you're just upmixing stereo stems, use the item volume as a fader. Can set a mouse modifier to make this quicker. For soloing, add a custom action with a keyboard shortcut that will unmute all tracks, select all items in selected tracks, invert selection and mute selected items. To unsolo, just use the Unmute all items action. Muting tracks still seems to work so you won't lose much flexibility this way
Thanks a lot for the overview! Looking forward to dip into working with Atmos in Reaper. Is this still the way or have there been any significant updates? The foldering or bussing when getting into composer while still using faders seems unnecesary clumsy TBH.
@@michaelgwagner Ok, thanks for the reply. I think what I'l start with is to make a Reaper project template with 128 bus tracks with the Beam sends and hide them in the Track Manager. Easy to send to but no ghost faders visible. When needing to adjust, pop up the channels with the Track Manager or custom actions.
Thank you very much for the interesting videos! I was wondering: what do you think are the best use-cases for ambisonics and Dolby Atmos in interactive game audio? When is which one is preferred? In addition, I also wondered: as a professor teaching ambisonics to your students, besides clarifying ambisonics and making everything work in the DAW, what is the next, more advanced step? Creating immersive soundscapes? Mixing for 360° videos?
I’m actually not teaching pure audio classes (with the exception of game audio). In games, the format question is not that relevant since all game audio technically is object based. Dolby Atmos is handled by the game engine, so you generally don’t touch that at all during game development. And Ambisonics could be used for ambient sounds, but in reality this is rarely done. It’s just much easier to work with sound objects.
It is on my list. But the EAR ADM production profile is different to the Dolby one. You can’t really do Atmos with EAR. It is similar but not the same.
Commercial Atmos AC-3 encodes seem to work in surround sound without an Atmos decoder. Do they include a 7.1 downmix for compatibility, or does a normal video player pan "object channels" to the intended positions on the fly, or leaves them in the center?
Guten Tag Vielen Dank für das interessante Video. Ich habe soweit alles richtig gemacht und verstanden. Wenn ich einen binauralen mix mit Objekten direkt aus dem fidler composer rendere, funktioniert alles wunderbar. Wenn ich aber aus dem Atmos Masterfile mittels dolby renderer ein mp4 erstelle bewegen sich die Objekte nicht. Ist das Problem bekannt? Ich würde gerne ein mp4 erstellen um es auf der Soundbar zu testen. Vielen Dank für Ihre Hilfe.
@@michaelgwagner Do you mean in the dolby atmos renderer or in the fidler plugin? Just for clarity I use the windows dolby atmos renderer trial to convert the atmos masterfile to mp4. Do I have to do some setup in the dolby atmos renderer to see these object automations?
@danielecorciulo8779 You should see the objects move when you play the masterfile in the Dolby Atmos Renderer before converting to mp4. If there is no movement there is a issue with the masterfile.
@@michaelgwagner Yeah, you´re right! Then the need to feed another bus/Aux previous to send to the Atmos Composer. Thanks for the reply and for your great videos!
Not quite sure if I understand the question. On Windows you would have to use Fiedler Audio’s Dolby Atmos Composer. The Dolby Atmos Renderer workflow cannot be used on Windows because some core components only exist for the Mac.
@@michaelgwagner hi, on mac, because of the renderer, you can technically mix in atmos WITHOUT lots of equipment, literally just with headphones, you can't do that with windows, however this composer product you mentioned maybe it will make it possible on Windows with just headphones?
The Question me is puzzling the most what is the best setting for recording. 8-Channel (like ORTF-3D by Schoeps), 9-Channel (Florian Camerer), 3-Channel Double MS-Stereo (2 Cardioids + 1-eight; Schoeps) or is it just enough to go first order with something like the Sennheiser Ambeo or the Rhode NT-SF1… What files sell the best? Or is it still OK just going with a boom mic for Mono or MS-Stereo?
The idea of Atmos is that you primarily work with mono or stereo sources and then pan them during production. Sources that have been recorded in 3d go into the Atmos bed. And since that is limited to 7.1.2 (you can increase that to 9.1.6 with the Fiedler Atmos Composer), an actual spatial recording does not translate that well (there are no speakers below the listener, for example). The exact way you record in 3d might therefore have less relevance than you think. This is a bit different to what you would have to consider when working with Ambisonics, for example.
@@michaelgwagner Thank your for your answer, I'm just started to get into your educational video series and you really hit my "ORTF-3D" button. So for Atmos the source has just to be good noise free mono files. Need really to get behind all this, would love considering working on sound libraries while working on my house in Greece :-)
FINALLY in Reaper ... after all the problems with Dolby. I will share your video in the Community
Thanks!
I can't believe that it took TH-cam this long to finally recommend this video for me but I'm really glad you took the time and effort to do this video!
Thanks! Glad I could be helpful!
dude I love you. I've been going crazy about finding the right tools for rendering/working with Atmos and especially reaper. Vielen herzlichen Dank :)
You’re very welcome. ☺️
I'm successfully working with the Demo, and I think I go to get it, so great is the work I was able to do with this plugin. Although I noticed (and informed the developer, so I hope to get hints/solutions) that even disabling the optimizations, some crackle still present in the exported audio. Of course I'm very active to find/try all the solution.
BTW I also opened a feature request in Cokcos forum, to be able to insert a post-fader FX. At the end we are in 2023 and many needs are severely different than the ones we had in 2009.
So I hope Justin will give this opportunity in the future, and we will save time. I hope many can join that topic so everyone can describe needs and importance.
Important thing to notice is that this plugin can also downmix Dolby Pro Logic II.
Thanks to you I have been using in Reaper since the Fiedler Composer came out and it is working perfect. I give thanks for you channel. No one else is really talking about Composer. This has saved me so much time and money. I thought I was going to have to go MADI into another computer dedicated for the Atmos Renderer. Game changer.
Thanks! Nobody should have to go MADi. ;)
Finally a well explained & executed Demonstration.
Much appreciated 😁🤟
Thanks!
Thanks so much. I have been waiting for this.
You’re very welcome! 👍
09:09 the same way in which you need to work in a full ambisonics project using plugins like DearVR and also IEM (i've made several productions in this technology and in that way) because the mixer must be ignored. Positioning the object into the space first then the controls are directly into the plugin. Another way to mix when the audio source is "objectized".
The "WOW" signal 😉
12:35 THAT's why I'm asking to Cockos to implement it natively ... it's the best way, although with this plugin: chapeau!!
16:05 Objects are the way to go when you want to position the instruments into the audio scene recreating a kind of Stage. And those are scalable. Viceversa the BED is used more for compatibility with the classical systems 5.1, 7.1 etc. and it's not scalable (it's just mixed-down, which it's not the same thing).
17:37 as Dolby Licensee, when i discussed with Dolby (at the time of 5.1 and 7.1) they clearly told me: in Music the loudspeakers should be full bandwidth excluding the LFE. So that in Music it was turned into 5.0 and 7.0. Of course as you said: it's not mandatory, BUT it's a clear indication. That's why the loudspeakers in Amtos Music are required to be full bandwidth
34:00 WOW! Very nice!
Thanks for the feedback!!
@@michaelgwagner 14:24 Back to re-watch this video :-) Not necessary to create folders etc. When using Atmos: use atmos :-) indeed you have the "volume" up there into the Beam Window. that' one is the control one should use :-)
15:38 in music LFE is normally dropped and Full bandwidth loudspeakers are used. I see you have excellently specified it at 17:36
@Reaper-Tutorials Yes, thanks. I added the folder trick because that is the one thing most people trip over. They start playing with the faders and then wonder why nothing happens. I also always work with the controls in the Beam plugin.
UPDATE: Good News Michael. Soon a new version of Fiedler will be released and he solved the crackles. i mean: not necessary to change anything in the Reaper's settings. I did test the Beta 4 yesterday night and it was astonishingly good. That guy is working excellently!
Sorry, just saw that. Yes, I have been using this version for a couple of days and it takes care of most crackling problems.
wow! Michael, you are a lifesaver! We've been transitioning our facility over from Mac computers using ProTools to Windows and Reaper. Then, when the whole Atmos thing blew up this past year, I thought "oh no!...what have I done?"...thinking that I had to revert everything back...but this is absolutely wonderful news for me! I also had toyed with the idea of trying to use the "ASIO link protool" to route things, but that just looked absolutely confusing to me...this completely made my day! So clear and understandable. Thanks!
Thanks! Glad that I could be helpful. Yes, that ASIO link pro hack is a bit of a hack. :) Plus it is no longer supported by anybody so there is always the risk that it will stop working.
Wonderful video. Thanks!
Thank you!
Thank you for these priceless videos! I think it's great that you focus a lot on Dolby Atmos. I mean, sure no single technology is around forever, but Dolby seems to be THE main player on surround formats. If I'm not mistaken, Dolby Digital 5.1 was introduced in 1992, and it is still being used today!
Thanks for your note! Much appreciated! 😊
Thank you very much for this well explained tutorial.
Just one question: Channel 4 (LFE) of Dolby Atmos composer ESSENTIAL cannot be activated. Creating an LFE channel in Reaper is no problem, but can't send to channel 4. Any solution?
The essential version does not provide manual lfe support. You would have to upgrade. But the lfe is generally not used in music production so you could just work without it.
@@michaelgwagner ok teacher
Yes, I understand that it can work perfectly for music production, but it is not suitable for audio post-production of a film, because channel 4 is completely inactive in rendering, among other non-minor details.
Anyway, today I installed the full trial version for 14 days and I'm seeing the differences compared to the essential one.
I recognize that it is a very good tool and that for the cost of €249 it gives spectacular results and offers a wider workflow and more independence on an audiovisual or audio project for games.
I thank him from the bottom of my heart for his attention and I want to congratulate him for his pedagogical and understandable way of explaining in his tutorials.
You are an oasis in the desert!
Many, many thanks from Barcelona
If you are doing post production for film/tv then the Studio version of DaVinci Resolve is the much better option.
For anyone missing the fader or ability to solo tracks: if you're just upmixing stereo stems, use the item volume as a fader. Can set a mouse modifier to make this quicker. For soloing, add a custom action with a keyboard shortcut that will unmute all tracks, select all items in selected tracks, invert selection and mute selected items. To unsolo, just use the Unmute all items action. Muting tracks still seems to work so you won't lose much flexibility this way
Great tips!
Thanks a lot for the overview! Looking forward to dip into working with Atmos in Reaper. Is this still the way or have there been any significant updates? The foldering or bussing when getting into composer while still using faders seems unnecesary clumsy TBH.
This is still the general workflow. No substantial updates in that respect.
@@michaelgwagner Ok, thanks for the reply. I think what I'l start with is to make a Reaper project template with 128 bus tracks with the Beam sends and hide them in the Track Manager. Easy to send to but no ghost faders visible. When needing to adjust, pop up the channels with the Track Manager or custom actions.
Great! Did you try Atmos in Studio One 6.5? Thanks a lot!
Yes, I did a couple of videos about it. ;)
Michael: Duendsounds produce a lot of different packs. Which one did you use in this video?
One of the Moods volumes. 🙂
sweet!
Thank you very much for the interesting videos! I was wondering: what do you think are the best use-cases for ambisonics and Dolby Atmos in interactive game audio? When is which one is preferred? In addition, I also wondered: as a professor teaching ambisonics to your students, besides clarifying ambisonics and making everything work in the DAW, what is the next, more advanced step? Creating immersive soundscapes? Mixing for 360° videos?
I’m actually not teaching pure audio classes (with the exception of game audio). In games, the format question is not that relevant since all game audio technically is object based. Dolby Atmos is handled by the game engine, so you generally don’t touch that at all during game development. And Ambisonics could be used for ambient sounds, but in reality this is rarely done. It’s just much easier to work with sound objects.
Hi Michael, is it impossible to send signal to the LFE channel if using the essential version?
I don’t think so. The LFE is not rendered in binaural though.
Thanks for the video. Do you have any experience with EAR Production Suite EBU? It is another way to mix Dolby Atmos with Reaper (for free)
It is on my list. But the EAR ADM production profile is different to the Dolby one. You can’t really do Atmos with EAR. It is similar but not the same.
@@michaelgwagner It has 64 objects but I did not found any Bed.
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
😎
Commercial Atmos AC-3 encodes seem to work in surround sound without an Atmos decoder. Do they include a 7.1 downmix for compatibility, or does a normal video player pan "object channels" to the intended positions on the fly, or leaves them in the center?
Great observation! It’s a 5.1 downmix that builds the basis for the AC-3 encode.
Guten Tag Vielen Dank für das interessante Video. Ich habe soweit alles richtig gemacht und verstanden. Wenn ich einen binauralen mix mit Objekten direkt aus dem fidler composer rendere, funktioniert alles wunderbar. Wenn ich aber aus dem Atmos Masterfile mittels dolby renderer ein mp4 erstelle bewegen sich die Objekte nicht. Ist das Problem bekannt? Ich würde gerne ein mp4 erstellen um es auf der Soundbar zu testen. Vielen Dank für Ihre Hilfe.
Does the renderer show the object automation when you play the masterfile?
@@michaelgwagner Do you mean in the dolby atmos renderer or in the fidler plugin? Just for clarity I use the windows dolby atmos renderer trial to convert the atmos masterfile to mp4. Do I have to do some setup in the dolby atmos renderer to see these object automations?
@danielecorciulo8779 You should see the objects move when you play the masterfile in the Dolby Atmos Renderer before converting to mp4. If there is no movement there is a issue with the masterfile.
Why Fiedler Audio doesn´t make the Beam plugin post fader really puzzles me....
That’s a DAW thing. If the DAW supports post-fader inserts, you can put it post fader.
@@michaelgwagner Yeah, you´re right! Then the need to feed another bus/Aux previous to send to the Atmos Composer. Thanks for the reply and for your great videos!
Reaper users have been asking for post fader inserts for years. If it had post fader inserts this setup would be dynamite.
on windows, just like how you can mix with headphones ONLY on Macs, Can you do this with reaper for atmos?
Not quite sure if I understand the question. On Windows you would have to use Fiedler Audio’s Dolby Atmos Composer. The Dolby Atmos Renderer workflow cannot be used on Windows because some core components only exist for the Mac.
@@michaelgwagner hi, on mac, because of the renderer, you can technically mix in atmos WITHOUT lots of equipment, literally just with headphones, you can't do that with windows, however this composer product you mentioned maybe it will make it possible on Windows with just headphones?
Yes, that is correct.
@@michaelgwagner hallelujah
The Question me is puzzling the most what is the best setting for recording. 8-Channel (like ORTF-3D by Schoeps), 9-Channel (Florian Camerer), 3-Channel Double MS-Stereo (2 Cardioids + 1-eight; Schoeps) or is it just enough to go first order with something like the Sennheiser Ambeo or the Rhode NT-SF1… What files sell the best? Or is it still OK just going with a boom mic for Mono or MS-Stereo?
The idea of Atmos is that you primarily work with mono or stereo sources and then pan them during production. Sources that have been recorded in 3d go into the Atmos bed. And since that is limited to 7.1.2 (you can increase that to 9.1.6 with the Fiedler Atmos Composer), an actual spatial recording does not translate that well (there are no speakers below the listener, for example). The exact way you record in 3d might therefore have less relevance than you think. This is a bit different to what you would have to consider when working with Ambisonics, for example.
@@michaelgwagner Thank your for your answer, I'm just started to get into your educational video series and you really hit my "ORTF-3D" button. So for Atmos the source has just to be good noise free mono files. Need really to get behind all this, would love considering working on sound libraries while working on my house in Greece :-)
We Reaper users are eating well tonight!
👍😂