No One is Telling You The Truth About Aluminum Boats So I Have To
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I like riveted in most cases. Only reason I would ever get a welded boat is for serious stump jumping, and the only reason I would go welded is because riveted jons are usually much thinner than welded ones. Need that thicker bottom to go log sliding and jump beaver dams. Other than that, I stick with riveted boats because they are easy to fix.
Wisdom bro. We need to hit up a boat show one of these days!
you need to come up to wa st or oregon,,theres a few of these boats around,,been seeing a few lund boats every once in a while,,its all about welded aluminum boats out here,,hewescraft searunners,,no river,alumaweld ,duckworth etc ,,i would never own a riveted boat , i currently own a new 2023 hewescraft seerunner,,if im out in the ocean hitting some rough chop im not gonna worry the boats going fold etc
Apples to oranges...boats made of thicker aluminium plate like you are listing are better welded, lighter gauge boats are stronger riveted@@andyyarrington6401
@@BADBRAD1959 Both you and Andrew are correct. It's all about the surroundings you'll be in. I, myself would never take a 19 foot (Riveted OR Welded) aluminum to an ocean start with. But I would also like a Hewescraft. They are built nicely, for what I need.
62 yrs old a welder since 16 and a CWI for the last 30....rivets are not stronger than welds...they are cheaper.
Be honest!
Aloha. I'm 64, and raised here in Hawai'i. Back around 1982 my father ordered a 13'9" riveted aluminum hull Sears Gamefisher skiff thru a local Sears Robuck store. I used to take this boat 20 miles offshore into the deep blue Pacific in pursuit of pelagics - tuna, mahimahi, wahoo, just to name a few. Sometimes the seas would pick up, with whitecaps all around, and the hull going airborne half the time while jumping the swells. It really took a pounding way beyond what it was ever designed for, and it took this abuse all in stride. I owned that boat for 20 years after inheriting it from my dad, and the rivets never leaked, or got loose, but stayed watertight. I made sure to wash the hull down with freshwater after each use. She served me well with no complaint. 😁🤙
4:52
Let’s get someone who knows metallurgy involved, specifically the aluminum alloys. Aircraft grade aluminum is not weldable safely, that’s why it’s riveted.
Marine grade 5052
Here in Australia, aluminium boats are hugely popular. Only dingys tend to be riveted, larger boats are all welded.
I hear what he’s saying about cracks potentially cracking but I’ve been using Ali boats for years, mostly offshore and I’ve never seen a crack occur in a hull.
I do aircraft structural repair for a living , I fix aluminum boat hulls on the side …the majority are riveted but, the welded Princecraft and Crestliners I fix are brutal for cracked ribs and low penetration on seams
It's almost as though quality of construction is more important than the method of construction. Crazy.
Are you seeing it on certain hull types because my Crestliner 1650 Fish Hawk has been solid with no cracking whatsoever model year was 2018? Thanks for your feedback.
@@mikerouse6004 2008 Triton VT19, made by Crestliner here. Solid as a rock
Down here in NZ there are no rivets in boats being built nowadays .
All new boats are fully welded.
There are still some older riveted boats around bit they are not popular due to leaks, cracks and fatigue.
same in australia. riveted = garbage
I have a 1964 Strarcraft Chieftain lapstrake riveted boat that has only needed 2 rivets replaced over the years. This boat ran in Puget Sound in big water and is now running on larger lakes so it has seen the test of time. I also have a 2006 welded boat that has had to have 2 repairs already. Your point about a riveted hull distributing the stress is spot on.
There are almost Zero heavy commercial boats or Coast Guard inspected passenger boats that are riveted. Riveting is great for light weight fun boats, but all the heavy aluminum work boats are welded. Each serves it's own purpose accordingly and should not be compared or confused.
The thinner the aluminum is the more difficult it is to weld.
Exactly right. The recreational sheet metal boats are about as thin as can be welded and retain good weld margin strength. Riverted or welded, neary all of those boats have a .060" topside (above waterline) thickness with a .100" floor pan thickness.
Ocean going ships were all riveted once apon a time and I've never heard nor seen evidence of one sinking because it was a riveted construction !
Yes even battleships
@@Hitman-ds1ei Oh yeah just like the Titanic!
IMHO Do what LUND does. Weld where welding works best and double rivet where rivets work best. It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Boat put together with rivets that sales guy will say rivets are best. Welded boat dealer will say welded is best. Have heard of welded boats cracking but have also seen boats leaking at rivets and cracks starting under the rivet area
Well.. Maybe we should ask for reviews of all the WELDED aluminum fighter jets. LMAO
@justis4men211 why don't you fly yourself over to an aviation channel to compare apples to oranges
I have as well. A lot depends on how you treat the boat. I was tough on my welded jon - drove it hard and fast in open chop. Hit some really big boat wakes. The cracking was at the front corner where the forward seat was welded to the side. Just a hairliner about 1/2" long on both sides.
I heard fighter jets don’t do well in water, so, there’s that….
Then why to they charge more for a welded John boat rather than a riveted boat
Jeez.. after owning many riveted boats, I can say I’m very happy to be in a welded boat…
good luck to you, decades down the road.
@@BumpNrun69 My 13 ft welded boat, Duranautic, was purchased in 1974 and has been run hard, and is going strong.
@@BumpNrun69my welded skiff has survived 30 years crawfishing in flooded timber, come try a couple of seasons with your riveted boat...😂😂😂
Amen brother I don't have to bail water any more with my welded hull and it takes a lot more of a beating than my riveted one did. In big water I used to watch the water squirt between the rivets on the bottom in the old junk.
@BumpNrun69 good luck to your leaks
the smaller Starcraft riveted boats held up fine for decades but would leak unless the rivets were re-bucked. the larger ones, 20 ft and over were prone to cracking along the bottom between rivets. we have a 1967 Starcraft 14 foot and it's still doing great.
I have 71 15' Starcraft Runabout all good except where the previous owner let it rub on the rocks , got that repaired , been 30 years no leaks.
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve owned a 20’ Lund Alaskan since 98 with high hp tillers and pounded the hull hard over the years and to this day it doesn’t leak a drop. Aluminum hulls have to flex and welded joints are too rigid and will eventually crack. Ask my different buddies over the years who’ve bought new welded hulls and they had nothing but headaches and they vowed never to own welded again. YMMV
In the interview and following conversation presented here, I can not help but say that the elephant in the room has been ignored. I would never provide any criticism for the structural component of an aluminum boat as they are well proven. Nor would I argue against replacing a rivet or rivets in an aluminum boat. However, out here in the field as a repairer we see a very large number of leaking aluminum boats, some with loose rivets and some not. The issue absolutely is not the rivets it is the bonding agent used on the seam to increase the strength and seal the seam. It becomes delaminated, and then the boat leaks. You can tighten or replace rivets, but you can't replace the bonding agent properly without totally disassembling the seam that is leaking, which would be cost prohibition . You can seal the seam on its edge, but with the bonding agent nullified sealing that edge doesn't seem to last very long.
In bigger water fiberglass is the way to go. You'll stay a lot warmer and the extra weight will help with ride quality. I've been on many different boats in the pnw from lakes, rivers, Puget sound and Pacific Ocean. The worst boat was the 24' Alumaweld. It beat the hell out of everyone with small wind and tidal waves and it was noticably colder outside temp was 65°. The 24' Trophy and Grady White smashed through the same amount of waves and noticeably warmer and the outside temp was 10° cooler. Ocean temperature was the same. Running rivers I'll take an aluminum all day with a pump.
Thicker welded boats are better than thinner riveted boats
But much heavier. In my fresh water shallow lake fishing Lund is king.
No
I haven't had a ton of aluminum boat experience but we rented a fishing boat on lake Mojave 30 years ago and we got caught out in the ubiquitous afternoon wind storm. The resulting waves forced us to run for the shelter of the cliffs. That run to the cliffs took us into the waves for 20 minutes and when we pulled into the cove several seat rivets had popped.
I know that a welded structure in race cars and mountain bikes are very rigid but I've broken several mountain bike frames.
Only thing of merit that I got from your stories is "your experience from a RENTAL, application"
Ever since the Titanic sank I have been sticking with welded boats. I would not take a riveted boat anywhere near an iceberg.
Bad rivets. Lots of people went down for this very reason.
The British can tell you about rivets because they stopped using them on their tanks in WW2 because after an impact they would pop and kill the crews in the tank.
My father bought a Duracraft 1648 DD back in 1996. He put a Go Devil long tail on that boat so we always run it in shallow water. We’ve hit more stumps than I can count and that boat has held up phenomenally well. We have never had a problem with it. I definitely prefer welded aluminum boats over riveted aluminum boats. I don’t think a riveted boat could survive the abuse id put it through.
The stronger aluminum in aircraft are made from Non-Weldable Aluminum Aloys.
The alloys common in aviation are also more susceptible to corrosion. Re-skinning and corrosion repair is common just from condensation or washing with car wash soaps; gotta use corrosion inhibiting soap to avoid problems.
I have owned 15 fishing boats. A long time ago, I.bought an aluminum boat that had been used strickly in salt water fishing the bays in Texas. Every rivet on the boat leaked. I.coated the bottom with polyester fiberglas cloth and resin. Never leaked .a drop after that. I now own a 16' 8" Tracker. I.bought it because it is light, and was inexpensive. I fish small 1000 acre lakes that rarely get any chop on them. If it is windy, I don't go. I hate fishing in the wind. I bought aluminum because they are lighter, require less maintenance, and since I usually fish alone, are much easier for me to manage. When gauging toughness, I look at what they use in Alaska. Their boats are all welded aluminum. All.of them.
Lunds are very popular in Alaska, Canada, and Minnesota on big lakes. They are riveted.
@CaptPeterson Do not forget Polarcraft. My Dad had one for well over 30 years until he passed. The point is you could run that boat up onto the rocks and pound the dents out of the boat, and she was good to go.
Man nice I recently got a older Gregor 12ft all welded aluminum boat with a rebuilt trailer both in excellent condition, and got a new Mercury 15hp EFI motor, boat is rated for a 20hp, can't wait to hit the water !
That's what I have for 43 years so far and no problems at all. Gregor makes the best small aluminum boats by far.
I had a 1980 Monark 1448, riveted hull with Welds on each side of the bow... I don't remember how many times the WELDS Failed and had to have the welds repaired. Riveted portions never failed!
Properly executed welds on material of proper thickness are fine, but not all fabrication is the same.
Thin aluminum is very tricky to weld but can be reliably riveted. Bigger offshore workboats that have to be made of thicker aluminum sheet and plate are always welded, never riveted. Airplanes have to be made in lightest way possible. This puts the structure in a more risky cyclic fatigue regime. Also, various materials and thicknesses have to be connected together in the structure. This all favors riveting ... but demands periodic inspection at designated intervals calculated from fatigue life and corrosion rate calculations.
In aircraft the main factor is the heat treatable alloys that must be used to achieve the necessary strength to weight. These alloys cannot generally be welded, so rivets must be used. If they could make a weldable alloy that would maintain the same strength as current aircraft alloys even after welding, then all aluminum aircraft would be welded.
I think u hit the point good. Difference between thick aluminum plate and the thinner hull boats being produced. Thin aluminum plate likes rivets over welds
In most cases, aircraft are not submerged in water. Completely different application. It was kind of inexplicable why he would compare aircraft and boats.
@@jbj27406 And yet, most aircraft floats for seaplanes are made of riveted structure, for the same reasons as the aircraft they are mounted to (allows use of high strength, non-weldable alloys).
@@netpackrat Agreed. That exception occurred to me also. However, the average aluminum fishing boat is not built to float plane or seaplane standards for the reasons you suggested. The standards of construction and materials is far more advanced and critical in aircraft. And weldability is probably counter to skin/structure strength.
It depends on size of the boat and material thickness
I have a 16' Quachita purchased in about 1970. Had a Corvair airboat setup on it for several years and then switched to 40hp outboard. Most of the boat is riveted to the hull stiffeners and seats. The bow is welded as is the transom. The only crack developed in the bottom where a bottom groove was formed by pressing I think. Some of the rivets started leaking so I got my son to hold a hammer on the outside while I hammered them flatter from the inside. The only welds that broke were the gussets to the transom on the gunwales. Boat has been well used and still has a lot of life left.
Seems to me if I have to replace a rivet, Im out a day of fishing, it's going to cost money, and cracked weld is likely to be repaired from inside not out. so not sure why the rivet has any advantage on that.
Welds don’t flex and welded hulls will crack vs riveted hull will eventually leak from loose rivets but easy to fix and will flex under the stress.
the U.S Navy ships are welded
Welded STEEL!!
What a Maroon.
If they weren't welded they would be on the bottom with the Titanic.
I have a 20 year old Starcraft aluminum v hull that I use primarily in salt water. It doesn't leak a drop and has been perfect for me. It's just a 14'3" but takes two guys fishing in bays and in decent chop with a 25 hp motor and moves right along. I love it after scaling down in steps from longer boats. I'm old now so it's easier to handle alone. 😀
That Aluma Craft looks very light weight compared to the 5mm plate alloy, full stringer sub floor frame construction and fully welded-in alloy floor on my Australian built boat. I've never seen a weld on my type of craft ever crack.
I bought a brand new Valco 13 Ft aluminum boat. Riveted. After about 8 months of bay and close in off shore fishing, t was leaking through a LOT of rivets. Sent it to Valco under warrantee and they WELDED ALL the RIVETS>
If riveted is stronger than welded then why are we using inferior welded submarines?
Airplanes are Riveted because of dissimilar metals. The F14 was specially treated with 6000-grade aluminum with a titanium structure. We Rivet because you can't weld them. Some of the new stuff is heading to composite epoxy laminate.
BS for 500 Alex. Tell me you are not an A&P without actually saying it…
It's not BS. I've seen the whole fuselage on that plane. It's basically the same process boing uses to make all their s***.
How so?
Try and find a welded fuselage on any aircraft, not gonna happen . Standard practices are approved by the FAA …a titanium Hilite is stronger than any weld
My point was you can't weld aluminum to titanium or other dissimilar metals. Also, some of the aluminum used in airliners are in either the 2000 or 7000 series of alloys and they are considered to be non-weldable. There are plenty of world war II, p2s that have fully welded aluminum fuselage. I've seen one fully restored. All welded and polished to a mirror finish, it's really a sight to see.
There is nothing wrong with a well built riveted boat, or a well built welded boat. Both methods have beautiful functional examples.
During the manufacture installing rivets requires less skill than welding. Its a cheaper boat to manufacture if its riveted.
dude thought he was sly saying there was more labor with 2 people bucking rivets. haha. its faster and non-skilled. its cheaper. thinner aluminum is MUCH MUCH cheaper and can be cut, bent in a brake, and riveted. entry level workers with no experience can be trained to rivet in 15 min. application is everything though. if you don't need welded, don't buy welded.
Rivets allow more flexing in the hull as well as more expansion & contraction. Welding is more rigid but the heating process can fatigue the surrounding metal, later on due to metal fatigue, imperfections in the weld/metal prep, wear & tear, a crack will form.
Riveted boats leak from heavy waves over time. Welded boats don’t but are more expensive initially. Welds can crack however if they are not done properly. Not all welded hulls are equal
The reason aircraft use rivets is because they have no need to be water tight and if a panel is damaged, they can remove the rivets and rivet a new panel in place much easier than welding.
If you are welding, you're essentially making two pieces of aluminum into one piece. It's not as easy to repair, but it is stronger and more water tight.
My aircraft floats are Riveted. Sealant is placed between the joint before riveting. Pressurized aircraft are also sealed in the same way. That sealant can become dis-bonded and our floats leak a little during movement. Our aircraft are riveted because the Higher Strength to Weight Al Alloys cannot be welded. Friction stir welding of our alloys has been tried as a manufacturing process but not widely adapted or field repairable.
Most aircraft are air tight.... they use rivets because the UTS is calculable and reliable. Also, because the heat treatment is lost in the HAZ. pretty tricky to heat treat a whole airplane.
I bought a new Crestliner aluminum, all welded, boat in 2001. I ran it through heavy waves without having any problems. I think Alumacraft to too cheap to upgrade their manufacturing to welded boats. They are trying to convince potential customers that the obsolete riveting is superior to an all welded aluminum boat. I'm 66 years old and had many boats (aluminum and fiberglass)and the Crestliner welded aluminum boat is the best boat I ever had. ***I say BS to this video.*** Buy the way I don't work for Crestliner, I never had and I will not make any money or benefit from my comment. I giving my honest opinion.
That's cool... one question. Do you think there aren't any Lund owners out there with the same exact experience?
Marine plywood, 'glass, epoxy. Warm, quiet, durable, easy to repair. Done.
There is absolutely no comparison to the stress loads between a fighter jet and a boat. For one, a jet has riveted panels specifically so they can be removed to access interior repairs.
Jets don't bang their way through the air the way a hull bangs across rough water.
Welded hulls are more rigid and therefore stronger. Riveted hulls flex. Metal that flexes succumbs to metal fatigue sooner.
That said, a riveted boat is fine for small waters not subject to significant chop and waves.
Its real simple logic.....aluminum boats flex.....welds do not flex....rivets do....
Yep, rivets can create elongation within their the holes. Welded joints throughout time create "weakest link" points scenarios; next to the weld itself. I'll take the "rivet" design any day of the week.
Tell us of battleships and aircraft carriers, or even oil tankers that are rivited. Lol.
@@NoneOfYourBeesWax1 Also you tell us the difference of the Steel and Size of the Steel being used on them application. Big (Huge) difference in applications than a sheet of aluminum hull less than 1/8".
ALL metal flexes.
My polar kraft bass boat is riveted and my concern is in future having to possibly remove flooring with new carpet to replace rivets. And welded boats that are painted. Will have to be touched up.
Most game wardens will tell you that all drowning victims thought they had gills like a fish, and that is why they didn’t wear life jackets.
I know absolutely nothing about welding or rivets but I had a riveted boat for decades and I never had any issues. It was an old Mirro Craft. It was great little boat and I ask it to do things I know it was never meant to do.
I always worry about stresses while going down the highway with a load of gear in the boat. I don't beat on it too much fishing lakes.
Comparing the way a fighter plane is rivet constructed to the way fishing boat is rivet constructed is probably not a good comparison.
The first aluminum boat I owned was a leaky pos after a few years. "riveted hull". I sold the piece of junk and bought a welded hull boat. The person up front never had to "Bail Water" all day any more. If you plan on owning the boat for a long time DO NOT buy a riveted hull. You'll be sorry.
The second time I've visited this same video. The debate goes on, and probably always will. Coming from Minnesota the debate is strong there where you have Alumacraft and Lund riveted boats going up against Crestliner welded hullls all made (or were?) in that state for the same choppy waters and granite bottomed lakes.
Some of the things not being mentioned, and I'm sure there are more when you bring in welded boats of the Pacific NW and southern jon & bass boats and the types of waters they run in, are the other things like improved adhesives between riveted panels and the tongue & groove extrusions some welded hulls use.
Suffice to say, buying from a quality manufacturer with good dealer support and it probably boils down to personal preference.
I've never met anyone to take your boat in to the dealer to replace a single river. The truth is they are stronger, but they leak a lot more.
What’s really dumb is the fact this is still a conversation…
With having the Giga Press Elon designed, these small aluminum boats should be getting stamped out.
Even if it was in two halves. Big press, stamp them out, weld or rivet the one seam… done! Strength of the joint is also dependent on the placement of the joint or seam. 👍
Actually bolts/welds are used instead of rivets nowadays on structural steel. Steel is a different beast.
Way back like the building of the Empire State Building they used hot rivets I believe. Probably more expensive but will last forever.
I was teaching shop in Alaska , a guy had a welded aluminum boat . He found out the hard way aluminum welds are weaker than the parent metal. I patched it till he could get back to where he bought it .
To me, the pinnacle of aluminum boats are the Coast Guard 45-foot response boat-medium. By pinnacle , I mean if I could have any aluminum boat, I desired, this is the one I would pick. Obviously I would want more luxury than the .mil version, but the self righting ability, hull design, dual 6 cylinder diesel jet pump powered drive. Joy stick controlled. It is designed to operate in 8 ft seas and survive 12 ft seas and 50 knot winds. Is it riveted or welded? AND we all know the government doesn't always pick the best of the best, but instead often pick the cheapest unless there is a reason for the more expensive option. As far as I know, the RBM45 is welded since you can find the CG requirements for repairing any welds online. I assume there is a reason for picking the more expensive option. AND this has no real context except it is a fact and it was a famous ship that sank. The Titantic was riveted. lol
To compare a welded aluminium boat to an aircraft’s riveted construction is an apples to oranges comparison. The alloy skin of an aircraft is thin to keep weight down and as such would be difficult to weld for starters . Rivet holes are notorious for having cracks migrate from them , but easy to repair with doublers etc . Plus easier to replace damaged parts or gain access ie to inspect inside wings etc .
By comparison most welded alloy boats are 4-5 mm thick and the quality of welds today is impressive . As an example , our 7.4 m alloy boat was built (welded construction ) in 1992 . No welds have ever failed and it’s had a pretty hard life , off the West Coast of NZ . We did have some pitting in the alloy of the hull , but they just cut out that section and welded in a new section and she’s good to go again .
Thank you. I learned alot
My dad had a Quintrex welded boat and yes it developed a tiny leak at the weld
I am on my second riveted aluminum boat. I gave up on the first one after it leaked 2” of water into it overnight. The second has not leaked in 10 years. It is an Alumacraft.
Okay, both are good ways to build sheet metal boats of thin guage. However, I have experienced one thing that happened to a welded boat, which I have not seen on riveted. I will not name the brand because they are excellent boats. That said, Ihad a 16ft jon wit a very shallow V bottom. Driven by a 35 hp tiller control motor, it was fast, I can tell you. Out on Puget Sound, it can get choppy - not the best environment for a jon with 20 inches of freeboard. And, certainly not teh best environment for a flat running lake hull. As I used it over a couple of seasons, I noticed that the margins at the welds in certain spots were cracking. Not weld itself, but the sheet metal just next to the bead edge. Iassume it was material hardening when it was welded. We're talking .060" sheet - easy to get it brittle.
I went on to use the boat, but cut back my bay running and took it to lakes instead. I was probably abusing it, but I'm just sayin'.
Today I have a 2000 Northwood (Smokercraft Voyager), bought used, and have never had an issue in a chop except for soe pounding because it's so light. No rips or cracks at stress points. SO, I think matelfatigue or process hardening may be a thing with welding very thin aluminum.
a Jon in heavy seas is a bad idea no dead rise to handle the heavy seas glad you got in OK Jon boats are good for small lakes rivers and some smaller bays out on a big body of water bad idea... I bet that was a stressful ride especially with a tiller weight distribution is critical to lessen bow slap. 16 foot Aluminum deep V with a 20-25 degree dead rise at the bow would have been a way different ride.
.060 is very thin for a welded boat, but still the welds didn't fail the material did. I wonder which alloy was used....
@@kenneth9874 T-6061, like all quality aluminum boats. It's hardedned and much stiffer than comon sheet alloy. Used in aircraft bodies. Think: Grumman canoes.
The cracking was my fault, I'm sure. A welded jon will last as long as any good alloy sheet boat if used as desdigned - not wave hopping at 25+mph. I'm talking 2ft waves and large boat wakes.
For the record, the brand was Crestliner, a very good manufacturer. The cracking never got any worse, and the boat was completely satifacory. I would recommend it to anyone.
My Northwood 14 is a completely different design, being a re-badged Smokercraft Voyager, made by a Smokercraft subsidiary. It is a wave cutting design for large open lakes and sheltered bays, and handles chop very well because it has more V at the entry - graduating to a semi rounded transom for planing. Both are excellent boats for their intended purpose.
@@OutnBacker sometimes harder and stiffer is more brittle.....
@@kenneth9874 True, but T6061 has always been the Go-To alloy for aluminum boats in this class and works amazingly well, given the overwhelming number of them that are older than their owners. Aircraft made of it have th same fatigue and cracking issues. If you look very close at WW2 Grumman fighters, you'll see all kinds of quick fix patches riveted on over bullet holes and stress cracks. Russian fighters were much more crudely built, and used lots of soft aluminum, which actually ripped. More patches.
Really depends on the quality of work being done to build the boat. A skilled riveter will make a better boat than a poor welder, and vise versa
Something that wasn't discussed is water tightness, Welds don't let water through, but rivetted joins do. How is the water kept out?
Riveting will be water tight if the correct materials and installation techniques are used and the pattern of the rivets is correct.
@@johnbrown6189, which correct materials and installation techniques are involved, please?
Your assuming the weld is leak proof. Unless you're there to see the die pen test or X-ray you'll never know.
@@kylecasetta4091, a good weld is water tight. Regardless, this is not the question I asked.
@@TheErsatzMode you're assuming the whole weld is perfect, very few industries hold their welders and welds to that standard. They do have allowance on impurities per 12 linear inches of weld. To say the welder and or the robot will lay a perfect weld from start to finish every time is living in fantasy land. So as I said unless you personally welded and tested the hull yourself. You can't guarantee the weld is water tight. Aluminum welds are prone to crack especially when MiG welded if not done perfectly. You can easily find stories of boats with broken welds with new ones daily.
All the destroyer and frigate ships i worked on are welded. Lol
Steel not aluminum
Thinner aluminum sheet is difficult to weld effectively. Manufacturers use thinner material to save money therefore really have no choice but to rivet. They don’t rivet because it is superior, just superior for the material thicknesses they use.
Most river boats that are required to run over and survive rocks, sand, and logs, use thicker formed and welded aluminum sheet/plate. The thicker material allows welding without overheating and burn through like you would see on the thinner material used on riveted boats.
The flatter the bottom the more it will flex too. That is why you need the thicker material as well.
I’ve seen many Jon boats that are riveted start to leak because over time they start to fatigue from flexing so much. I’m talking about the thin walled RIVETED ones. This isn’t because they are riveted, it’s because cheap thin boats that don’t hold up must be riveted because welding isn’t an option on boats that thin.
There’s also the fact that rivets on a boat don’t take 2 years of trade school and years of practice to master. I would say on a production line a hard working unskilled person could learn to rivet fairly quickly where as putting out a “stack of dimes” is very difficult therefore a competent welder would cost the manufacturer much more.
Laser welding does fantastic on thin aluminum.
aluminum can be heat treated and it becomes a lot stronger and tougher. when you weld it you ruin the heat treat. this is why airplanes are riveted.
Today both welded and riveted hulls are excellent. I own a Crestliner (welded) and a Lund (riveted) which see a lot of big water on Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. I would give the nod to the welded hulls for the following reasons. Welded hulls are more efficient than riveted do to there being no rivet heads to interrupt water flow over the hull. Also it is easier to repair a welded hull because you can identify where the leak is and repair it without the need to remove decking as you need to do with a riveted hull. Saying that, both boats l own have no leaks but both boats have had to have their transoms repaired do to the transoms wooden construction. The gentleman's information about trucks and planes being riveted is not entirely accurate. The frames of most transport trucks are held together by Huck bolts not rivets in areas that see the highest stress. Most air planes do use some rivets but in high stress areas Huck bolts are used. I make this statement from experience as an air frame mechanic assembling and repairing DC9's wings at McDonnel Douglas. Hull warranty the manufacture offers gives a good indication of how confident they are in their product. Crestliner, life time on the welded hull. Lund, life time on only the double riveted seams. Alumacraft 20 years on the riveted hull. Also both welded and riveted are subject to material and manufacturing defects.
"Also it is easier to repair a welded hull because you can identify where the leak is and repair it without the need to remove decking "
WHAT??? Who ever conned YOU into believing that? Have you ever welded aluminum? That surface needs to be heated tremendously prior to any weld, Do YOU know what's on the other side of that hull? They ARE and WILL gut that portion of the boat out to get to the other side, guaranteed. Please, please, please, never try to fix anyone's boat.
Yes l have welded my aluminum hulled boat, and yes l did know what was on the other side. But l did have to remove one floor panel but did not required to remove the floor to find the leak. Now with my aluminum boat the only way l could find the leaking rivets was to take out all of the flooring, dry the floor and then float the hull to mark which rivets needed replacing. Next l had to drill out the rivets and then install the new rivets, which takes two people. One to buck and the other to rivet. Please please never try to tell anyone anything. @@BumpNrun69
I was in navy but got out and got certified in aluminum tog and mig and D1.1 steel 1992 worked thunderjet riverboat then Renaissance boats , Duckworth , northwest and weldcraft aluminum jet boats they are all great boats but I bought a riveted boat and gave it Hell on the snake river .im in virginia with it right now.
I never weld cold Aluminium. I insist it must be pre-heated before being MIG or better still, TIG welded. Yes this takes time and costs more. That is why some do not bother pre-heating.
What about these new big offshore catamarans that are out there on the market?
I wonder if they can take the stress of big wave over time?
I have a 1987 Alumacraft with a 60 hp hand tiller and it does not leak after being used every week.. That is 37 years of use....
Welded is much less likely to crack then around a rivet. Rivet is actually cheaper to produce than welding due to the time required. But welded is stronger and more watertight. That is why welding is used where strength is required. Trucks use oversize box and riveting for cost and speed of production as they do not need to be watertight.
The weakest part of a weld is the perimeter; NOT the weld itself. In other words the (less than a 1/8") aluminum IS the weakest link.
@@BumpNrun69 And putting hole in it and then filling it with a rivet is even weaker. I did NDT for several decades and know which I would choose every time.
I've had rivets come loose and leak on aluminum boats.
Good one!
I have a 2021 Alumacraft that takes on some water. What can I do?
Partially fill it with water on land to determine where it leaks.
Flex seal is obviously the best !
I see a lot of welded pontoon deck mount brackets broken around the welds.
I have a 2001 sprint marine ocean pro and ive beat that boat up many years still running strong welded boat on the colville river i live in Nuiqsut Alaska
HEY MINISOTA< I GOT A 1958 CRESTLINER . DONT KNOW OF ANY FIBERGLASS BOATS THAT WILL LAST THAT LONG.
Titanic was a riveted boat, my reasoning. 🤔
Thin walled aluminum like alumacraft, lund and crestliner use should be riveted. Welding distorts the shape around the bow. Welding should be reserved for 0.25” and thicker material. 8:00 8:00
When I asked a boat sales guy if rivets were better than welded he asked me if I have ever seen a welded airplane. I have a 2001 StarCraft superfisherman 19 ft and it’s been on the Great Lakes all of its life and it’s a tank.
It's dependent upon the thickness of the material, also there are dissimilar materials used in aircraft
I own a 1966 riveted 16ft Starcraft, its 58 yrs Old.
No leaks, boat is in perfect condition.
You must not take yours out very much I go fishing 30+ times a year my boat gets used a lot. My riveted one lasted a few years also before it started leaking.
How old is your boat? Remember they don't make stuff like they used too, back then things were built to last a long time.
I use my boat once a month but who knows the history of my boat its probably been through he'll and back. I've owned this boat for 6 yrs now, not one problem since I got it.
With anything less than 3/16” i can agree
I have experience in work skiffs with 3/16” sides and 1/4” bottoms
And i do think there is an application for both methods
Bottom bracing and framework layout is critical in both applications
Weight and foam for structural integrity is also part of the equation
hull materials, joinery,design, application, maintenance, hp requirements, cost is very end user specific
Thanks for posting!
This!
A sheet metal welded boat is very different from a plate welded boat.
Crestliner tracker lowe are sheet metal boats when welded changes the temper of material at weld location and if any cracks they will start there and spread. Rather have rivets in sheet metal and welded plate. I have both neither leak and each has its applications.
@@omieyouknowme "when welded changes the temper of material at weld location and if any cracks they will start there and spread"...
Finally, someone who is educated enough to understands the chemistry of a weld. Many people here are so clueless to this fact.
@@BumpNrun69 waiting for epoxied aluminum boats.
@omieyouknowme marine plywood, 'glass and epoxy composite hulls are excellent. They're durable, easy to repair, quiet and warm. Plus, wood floats. Kind of makes sense to make boats out of it, but it's not as profitable to large companies as cranking out aluminum hulls.
Ive got a 25 yr old riveted 14' riveted boat, always used hard and still dont leak a darn drop. Naden. Canadian made. Im the 3rd generation owner of it and will pass it down when the time comes.
Great analogy about commercial trailers on the open interstates, excellent content.
3M VHB can replace rivets on trailer panels.
Ok, seriously? I guy that works for a company that sells riveted boats saying rivets are best....hmmmm?
The only problem with aluminum boats in salt water is that you should avoid city water of any kind. Salt,aluminum, and chlorine will have a reaction where the aluminum develops pin holes that steadily get worse in time.
Because I choose not to afford a new Lund, I fish Mille Lacs, Leech, LOTW, out of a 84 16 ft lund pike D. I've fished out of one like it since 1970. Ít floats just like the new ones and has been repowered with a new Yamaha efi 4 stroke. It isn't fancy it just works.
I have a 1987 Starcraft with a Mercury Classic 50. Boat and engine both look new. 😃
Its fine in fresh water. Wont last a month on gulf coast in the chop
Thin welds dont last. Manufactures trying to avoid rivets for labor cost.
Submarines were riveted construction in the old days. They have been all welded for many years. Don't tell the Navy that they are using inferior construction. LOL
on my second welded boat been in rough seas many times landed hard many times no issues tired of rivet guys saying welded boats crack that's BS I think both are good and its a stupid discussion and air planes have big temp and pressure changes that's why its riveted pretty sure a boat will not see the kind of changes a plane will see.
40 year welder here. Guess which kind of aluminum boat I'd get?
airplanes dont go into the water... as often.
True but most airplanes wings are the fuel tanks and hold liquid fuels. Jet A1, avgas and diesel. On mid to large planes in the areas where the fuel is stored they use huck bolts.
It’s all based on the thickness of the material thin aluminum needs to be riveted, but please understand that mega yachts, which are hundreds of feet long use sticker aluminum and they are welded and weld because the material is thick enough
Eh, I prefer riveted. I tend to keep boats for a loooong time and while rivets will leak every now and again it is about cost free to tighten them up and not much more to replace them.
They just need to use thicker metal. It needs to be at east 2 times as thick as it is. Im happy with either boat as long as its thick