@E.L. Crisler the thing with the 5900X and 5950X is that the "extra" cache is only directly connected to the extra cores so it doesn't help and can actually hurt if a thread gets moved and loses all it's cached data. A lot of MMOs and "sim" games have 1 or a couple threads that absolutely hammer the memory system so you need all the cache accessible to 1 core. This is probably why AMD didn't release a 5900X3D or 5950X3D. Anytime a thread would move between the CCDs the cache would basically have to get "reloaded".
@@ItsKunkey Interesting, BUT, i expect this to change once games can take advantage of more than 8 cores. Many games now do take advantage of 8 cores. And some, like Cyberpunk take advantage of more than that. Also with Raytracing becoming major, i expect that games will start to run faster on CPU's with more cores, and that the 5800x3D will slowly fall behind the machines that have 12 or more cores.
A lot of MMOs chug when you go to social areas with dozens to hundreds of players around, as the game has to load everybody's custom costume and individual stats... though I cap the max fps for games like these at 144, the X3D raised the minimum fps significantly, though I can't in good conscience recommend a $450 CPU upgrade for Final Fantasy XIV
@Actually Hardcore Overclocking I look forward to see how much Direct Storage will help CPU bottlenecks in games. Giving games access to data so much faster thanks to leveraging an NVME SSD and a modern API that helps the CPU and GPU access a lot more data at once should give the same kind of gains that giving more cache to a CPU doess or even better.
MMOs love the 5800X3D as well. Final Fantasy XIV, Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft, PlanetSide 2, etc., all see big gains from 3D V-Cache. Good stuff - just wish they were included in the "mainstream" reviews.
@@TheSpiritof76 github they done heaps of compared to the Intel i9 and ryzen the 5950x (or 5900x) I genuinely can't remember which one it is called lol
Exactly! Who gives a damn about games like Cyberpunk when it comes to CPU performance? Test games that are actually CPU heavy. Everytime a new CPU releases all I'm asking myself is: "okay, but how much better are Paradox games with it?" :D
@@Dsingisyeach abd buying a pc for paradox games specificly is damm near immposible beacuse no one benchmarks them. alghtough recently at least stellaris and factorio are being taken into consideration
I have 10,000 hours in rimworld and there is precisely ONE video (in german) about the 5800X3D's performance in it. It's such a demanding, (mostly) single core game.... i can't tell you how often i'm stuck at about 14fps with an R72700. It's a no-brainer test for me.
The Dota community actually noticed this CPU because it performs incredibly well with the game compared to other CPUs on the market. Like 20% higher average frame rates. Well done AMD.
We should tell Louis Rossmann that, since DOTA is the only game he plays. And if he ever finds his DaVinci dongle, I'm sure the 5800X3D is an excellent video editor too.
I have the 5800 X3D and that processor is literally a POS when it comes to 4K. The regular 5800 X doesn't choke as bad with a 3090. My comment is referring to 4K usage as I don't waste my time with anything at a lower resolution.
@@jamesm568 I don't get it. Isn't 4k gaming more GPU bound than CPU. Shouldn't you be seeing negligible differences with the use of either 5800X or 5800X3D. Both have same cores and same threads. Or is it because 5800X3D can't overclock and as a result has lower boost clock than 5800X?
I'm already envisioning some memes with people making cachedrives for some older games that are small enough to fit inside cache, whether it improves performance or not.
@@michelvanbriemen3459 Practically impossible because you can't directly address the CPU cache. Remember the CPU cache was always designed to accelerate memory, and from an addressing standpoint is invisible to the programmer. Sure, the programmer can use certain data structures or algorithms over others that make better use of the cache vs other structures/algorithms when mindful that there is a large cache to work with, but ultimately you don't have direct control of the CPU cache's contents as a programmer.
@@michelvanbriemen3459 People already cram virtual disks into GPU VRAM. It's high-latency and random i/o is abysmal, but 5-8 gigs of 16-lanes backed storage is sure fast.
I am super excited to finally see a review of a CPU that includes games that actually stress a CPU! If I may recommend other things to try, late stage Rimworld and heavy technical/redstone Minecraft worlds also cache thrash badly. Those would be great to see.
Hey finally some good benchmark on most CPU demanding titles, is so hard to find this kind of information on TH-cam... You also have The Riftbreaker at end-game if you set zoom out option On (set camera_enable_zoom "1" on config files). There is also Supreme Commander or Stacraft II multiplayer on huge maps like 4v4 and probably most real time strategy games if complex enough. Any of this games could put most CPUs into their knees under the right scenarios. The only hard part is to find those scenarios, end-game with pre-build maps ain't easy to setup for benchmarks.
In age of empires 2 définitive edition there is a benchmark to check if you can play rank. And you can press F11 to show fps. The score of 5800x vs 5800x3d would be amazing to see.
I wonder if you could test Rimworld on the 5800X3D? Late game it can slow down to a crawl when you have massive raids and lots of loot and corpses on the map. I bet it would help.
I know this was posted 5 months ago, but I saw a review where someone tested it and it performed really well. It kept itself above 25 fps iirc, while the 3800x (yes, 3800x) struggled with 17 fps. There was about 100 pawns on the map. Of course 5000 ryzen is already an upgrade, but I would guess its somewhere between these two
Wanted to just add, RimWorld doesn't seem too dependent on the cache. In my late game I modded I upgraded from a Ryzen 5 3600 to both the 13900k and 7800x3D (which is even more recent). 13900k led to a 80%+ increase in performance compared to the 7800X3D which barely doubled (44%) my FPS. Also ran the 1000 colonist benchmark on 1.4 with them that someone posted earlier on a thread For those interested in RimWorld specifically, it seems to lean much more on single core clock speeds than cache. Either option will definitely improve your experience if you upgrade from a 4+ year old CPU like me though
THIS, this honestly solidified my decision since I have a massive catalogue of of games dating back 15 years that I shuffle through, some modded old games like STALKER anomaly uses 1 single core to 100% so I suspect going for 7800x3d is a better choice than intel 13th gen.
Wendell had Stellaris running in the background in several videos. Very nice! We all know how endgame Stellaris really kills the fun with the slowdown. Glad more cache helps here, can't wait for Zen4+3D Vcache
Thank you for this Wendell - if there's something that drives me nuts about the testing of new hardware by the tech media, it's the ridiculous picks for gaming benchmarks. I don't play much of any triple As and don't really know many that do, me and the people I game with always end up on games like some of those in here, a lot of simulations, indies, etc. While the list of games chosen for benchmarking shouldn't necessarily represent me because I'm pretty sure I don't represent most gamers in my choices, the chosen games should be more than just "big PR triple A titles of the last 3-4 years". The market/consumer base is obviously SIGNIFICANTLY more diverse than that, but we NEVER see that play out in the choices made for actual testing and it drives me nuts because, frankly, the vast majority of game testing for hardware benchmarking is just unrelatable for me, and it's frustrating because it would only take a few different games to add a greater scope of context for the results. Also, REALLY have the urge to play Stellaris now...
Agreed, hence I started doing my own testing playing modded indi/AAA games and posting it to my YT channel. 99% of my games does not get tested by the tech press and I saw massive gains with more indi RTS/RPGs + MMORPG's like SWTOR and Kenshi. Horizon Zero Dawn and Shadow of the tomb raider also REALLY loves the 5800X3D for some reason. Heavily modded Kenshi is one of my best examples where now the game is actually playable compared to before where I stopped playing the game, because of constant crashing and unplayable framerates.
There's a phoronix article that found it wasn't so great for the greater suite. Not any worse than normal but not the 20%+ gains you see in a lot of gaming.
I'm just like you when it comes to gaming and can say that this 5800x3D is a blast for all of my indi/poorly optimized games. I'm generally more of a indi/older game type of guy so I'm glad I picked up this CPU to pair with my RTX3080Ti. I especially mod many games and Kenchi for example runs really well on my 5800x3D.
Man, I'm really having a hard time deciding between 13600k/13700k and 7800x3d. Have you come across AMD specific bugs? I also play a lot of indie/emulated/old windows games. I worry that AMD will have compatibility/support issues... I know that there have been issues in the past, like with Max Payne or Mass Effect.
@@AR-ey1ur Hi man I fully understand and they are all honestly very good options that you will be very happy with. If you can wait and only play games then I would personally recommend the 7800x3D. If you are on a budget but want an easy plug and play experience with very competitive performance then the 5800X3D will be the best balanced option between max performance, ease of use and budget. You literally only need a cheap air cooler, some DDR4 memory and most AM4 boards will support it, but I personally recommend a B550. The B550 Strix options are all pretty great and I'm currently rocking a B550 Strix A gaming board. All of the intel options you mentioned in your comment are also great options especially if you are willing to spend a day or 2 tuning your system and getting a expensive cpu cooler with expensive RAM. If you play with a ton of emulators that is especially AVX512 heavy then give intel and the Ryzen 7000 series a hard look. Lastly this goes without saying but watch benchmarks on what you do the most. Also to clarify, I've never had any bugs or issues with AMD CPU's and in general not with intel CPUs either so that shouldn't be a factor in your decision making at all.
@@AR-ey1ur On a side note, you may have problems with the 13600k/13700k regarding compatibility with older games, especially those that still uses some form of denuvo. This is personally a big reason why I don't even consider the intel CPUs with E-Cores and would only buy something like the 13400, but this is entirely only me and shouldn't be a problem in general.
@@dawienel1142 Thanks for your comment. Before I was pissed about ecores, which I considered to be trash cores, but now I think of them as bonus cores (perhaps for some background tasks). I have indeed heard about issues with ecores and denovo, but that can probably be very easily fixed by disabling ecores for the problematic game (if it hasn't been patched). The issue with AMD, on the other hand, for example in the case of Max Payne is that new AMD processors don't support 3dnow. There is also the fact that, according to steam, still twice as many people use Intel than AMD cpus. So, I'm not sure if devs of niche/indie software/games will pay the same amount of attention to AMD.
@@AR-ey1ur Please confirm which Max Payne game/version? I have played tons of Max Payne in the past with no issues so will quickly give it a test. Does it simply not work on new AMD CPU's?
I upgraded to a 5800X 3D this week. Stray is WAY smoother on this CPU than on a 5800X. No more stuttering or frame drops. The framerate consistency on this CPU is incredible.
This is the sort of thing i want to know about. FPS isn't everything. Frametime, simulation time, the FEEL of the game can be completely different with the same framerate, depending on so many different things. RAM (speed, timings and quantity), CPU frequency and cache size, storage speed, other stuff running on your computer, mods you have installled... even computer uptime. It all plays a role in the feel of the game. You all know what i'm talking about. A fresh windows install, on a computer that just booted up, with no bloat... there's no comparison.
When I saw "Odd games" I immediately thought Dwarf Fortress one of my favorites. Not knowing you'd actually mention it but you did! Even my 8086k can get bogged down with a large embark area and I've always wondered, outside of single core speed what would help it run even better?
That CPU absolutely SPANKS in assetto corsa competizione. Very impressive. Only ever seen them here in UK as a pre-order, to date. Number of chips available i imagine is silly low. Listings on ebay at £700+ though.
It looks like the CPU makers have been slacking on gaming CPUs to add more cache so it can handle large blocks of data faster. They added so many transistors that it bottle necks the cache size, 100MB L3 cache will give so much more performance. And we needed this for gaming, cause you can see that 4K performance is dropping super hard in some game titles when you go from 1440p to 4K. Now we will have GPUs with dual triple quadruple dies, and for sure that all will come with faster and bigger cache. 4K gaming is finally becoming true main stream!
The extra cache is absolutely bonkers for a lot of games. I'm still waiting on mine to get in but it's going into a nearly 5 year old x470 Crosshair VII hero (that you and buildzoid recommended btw) and it's replacing my old 2700x paired with a 6900xt. Can't wait to tinker with it undervolting and testing a bunch of games
@@Devilaxes pretty simple really, just make sure you have a prepped USB. As always, back up everything before you do anything major like flashing a bios. I'm already on 4703 for the Crosshair VII hero
Loved seeing this alternative lineup of games. While I don't play all of these specifically, I play more games like them than the usual AAA lineup of benchmarks that sometimes includes Civ as the closest comparable.
I debated between the 5800X3D and the 5950X. In the end, the 5950X won for me, but more due to the fact that I got the 5950X for almost the same as the 5900X's MSRP, and I really needed the extra cores more than more cache. If I was just gaming, I would have grabbed the 5800X3D, but for video editing, the 5950X was too tempting.
I even managed to get mine working without any issues on my B350 Tomahawk using the latest bios. Absolutely insane levels of backwards compatibility. I even got MSI's Kombo Strike to help me stay at higher boost clocks more often and it's still as stable as a newly built house. Love it.
Does Stellaris let you set an all AI match? If you can, it might be easiest to test by setting one up letting it run to late late game like you have yours and then you can use the time from the save to a certain date to benchmark. One correction, Factorio is probably super optimized. From what I understand they've done A LOT of work at optimization since building giant factories is a popular pasttime in the community.
Love the 5800x3d - grab PBO2 Tuner and set a -20 curve and then set power levels to 120/85/130 - runs beautifully and temps never get above 60c during some heavy load gaming, no FPS loss at all. AMD needs to release a new BIOS and let more boards use AMD Overclocking and PBO on the Mobo.
Thanks so much! I was looking for a review on how well this performs on grand strategy games, but all benchmarks are only on FPS, which is not the main issue for grand strategy.
i had to choose between 5900x and 5800x3d . thank god i went with the x3d ... its so mutch better i paly planetside 2 and other cpu heavy games and man .... is stupid fast ... i went from a 3600 to this and fuck its good .. like holy fuck its fast ...
I saw that in productivity programs the 12900K beat the 5800X3D most of the time. But I would like to see how much all that L3 cache helps with multitasking. I rarely play games but my system runs 24/7(because I am on a private BT tracker so of course the more you seed the more points you have to download). It's also nice to just have everything there all the time whenever I want it w/o having to wait to boot up my PC. So I wonder if all that L3 cache would help when repairing a rar archive with multipar while downloading from usenet while watching something in MPC-HC or on YT for example... I probably won't spring for a 5800X3D though, especially when it's selling for over MSRP. Yesterday newegg was selling the 5900X for $390. Yes, it "only" has 64MB of L3 instead of 96MB, but it has 12 cores for when you are doing something where it can be broken up easily and worked on. And if I was working on something that only needed less cores, I could turn off SMT and park some cores so that all the 64MB could be used by the remaining enabled cores. So IMHO the 5900X CURRENTLY seems like best value, both for use NOW as well as years from now.
It's an interesting question. Basically nobody does proper multitasking tests with modern CPU's, which is kind of scandalous, in my opinion. It's difficult to say how much the larger L3 would do for that. If you have a handful of tasks which are light enough on memory access that they don't individually benefit from a larger cache, it's definitely possible that running them together with the larger cache would preserve performance that would otherwise be lost due to increased cache misses followed by DRAM access. On the other end of the scale, if you have a number of applications which individually benefit from the extra cache, running them together would sacrifice some of that benefit - they'll run slower together than they would in sequence - but there would still be a lot fewer cache misses, so that mix of applications will still run notably faster on the 5800X3D than they would on the 5800X, due to having fewer DRAM accesses.
Unless you have a heavy hitter in the bunch, you'd need some very unusual task collection to see some benefit. I suspect most multitasking tests/benches will see no improvements. If you have an application that you have reason to believe will have 10s times more memory references than a typical process, then you might see benefit with parallel tasks as they are less likely to get overcrowded. I can't think of a day-to-day process that would fill this niche other than like if you had 100k < 10MB torrents or something.
@@QuantumConundrum That's why I wish at least one of the tech sites would do this kind of testing - because we don't know how much difference it would make. All the sites test the same way; on a clean windows install with only the games and programs they test installed, and they test only one at a time with reboots in between.
I MAY upgrade to a 5800 X3D some time this year but only if I can use it with my motherboard (pretty sure it can work with it) and upgrade my graphics cards. Fingers crossed we get new reasonably priced cards this year.
cool, Imma eventually upgrade my 2700x to the 3D. Does this mean that it will also perform better for game servers such as minecraft or factorio servers?
I've heard (Phoronix) - but haven't tested it my self (at this time) - that on Linux the extra cache doesn't benefit games very much (little to no improvement). However, I've also heard that other productivity (esp server) workloads in Linux are supposed to see a good jump.
Thank you, it’s so annoying seeing people do a cpu benchmark on Call of duty, battlefield, crysis, etc. Run cup tests ON GAMES THAT USE IT! Subscribed 😃
Hmm this makes me feel tempted to upgrade from my 8700k, as I can be pretty safe to assume gains in stellaris translate to Hearts of Iron 4 quite well.
I haven't been able to find anywhere that actually sells the MAX version of that case (with a power supply and cooler). Has it actually being seen out in the wild for sale?
the fun thing about this video is actually. I am playing stellaris right now after the patch and its so anoying how slow it is on year 2369 in a 400 star galaxy and therefore, I am looking for a new CPU. I8700k
For people who talked about MMO, I am also in the same spot. However, the problem is, of course, MMO and other multiplayer games do not have a "benchmark" set up for testers. If every runs are under different condition, the data would not be reliable. Multiplayer games should build a benchmark tools for us.
You know what. Somehow when Techspot benchmarked Cities Skylines, they inexplicably chose to benchmark the framerate rather than the fast-forward simulation throughput? Maybe that would be something to catch up on.
this caught my eye because it had the x3d and stellaris and I'd read civ 6 benefits greatly from the x3d. I thought the benefit of the 3d cache was supposed to be frames/second, so why is it helping so much for turn based games? would a 5800x3d be better than say a 7950x? also what's your intel setup. I play on a decade old i7-970 and mine is way faster than your intel chip, but not as fast as the x3d
so many neat games with this issue come to mind supreme commander, beamng drive, kerbal space program, escape from tarkov, gta IV . im tempted to replace my r5 3600
If only the case could be found in stock I had to go with the regular non-max version way back in Jan. for my wife's build because the MAX is never in stock.
well... Factorio runs perfectly fine on my over-10 year old 6core Phenom II X1100T. did not know it had a benchmark.. gonna test it right now Interesting would be heavily unoptimized old games, and voodoo games running with a wrapper or in CPU (software) mode But for that, the video title would be "5800 X3D Cache Loves O *L* d Games Too" :D
I wish I could buy a NR200p MAX... since first batch...months ago, none have been around and it's $469+ for a $89 case, with $135 PSU, and $110 AIO... so $335 value...
Dayum. I almost feel bad going with 12700kf last year. These kinds of games are high up on my list of importance, I know 5800X3D is amazing for games, but I'm surprised it does _this_ well in purely CPU games.
My future processor, getting it as soon as AMD has the decency to make me one. 1800X was getting a bit old. Also popular reviewers are the most clueless bunch of people I've ever ran into. 1. They test games I rarely play. 2. They have no clue what they are doing. Their results are always significantly off of mine. Thanks for testing other games than the newest 3D blastermaster on super ultra settings.
A lot of "single core/CPU" bottlenecks are actually just the CPU being stalled out on memory access. A lot of MMOs also love the 5800X3D.
@E.L. Crisler the thing with the 5900X and 5950X is that the "extra" cache is only directly connected to the extra cores so it doesn't help and can actually hurt if a thread gets moved and loses all it's cached data. A lot of MMOs and "sim" games have 1 or a couple threads that absolutely hammer the memory system so you need all the cache accessible to 1 core. This is probably why AMD didn't release a 5900X3D or 5950X3D. Anytime a thread would move between the CCDs the cache would basically have to get "reloaded".
@@ItsKunkey Interesting, BUT, i expect this to change once games can take advantage of more than 8 cores.
Many games now do take advantage of 8 cores.
And some, like Cyberpunk take advantage of more than that.
Also with Raytracing becoming major, i expect that games will start to run faster on CPU's with more cores, and that the 5800x3D will slowly fall behind the machines that have 12 or more cores.
You're my fave tech twink
A lot of MMOs chug when you go to social areas with dozens to hundreds of players around, as the game has to load everybody's custom costume and individual stats... though I cap the max fps for games like these at 144, the X3D raised the minimum fps significantly, though I can't in good conscience recommend a $450 CPU upgrade for Final Fantasy XIV
@Actually Hardcore Overclocking I look forward to see how much Direct Storage will help CPU bottlenecks in games. Giving games access to data so much faster thanks to leveraging an NVME SSD and a modern API that helps the CPU and GPU access a lot more data at once should give the same kind of gains that giving more cache to a CPU doess or even better.
MMOs love the 5800X3D as well. Final Fantasy XIV, Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft, PlanetSide 2, etc., all see big gains from 3D V-Cache. Good stuff - just wish they were included in the "mainstream" reviews.
Is there any data on this or some video? I mostly play MMOs and would really love to know.
@@TheSpiritof76 github they done heaps of compared to the Intel i9 and ryzen the 5950x (or 5900x) I genuinely can't remember which one it is called lol
I can’t wait for Intel to respond with ‘4D’ cache that works by going back in time to retrieve the data the CPU needs.
And we could play 4D chess with infinite framerate!
@@TheExard3k
Probably at lightspeed frame rate
and it only requires twice as much power
I don't think Intel for any cache advantages on their next CPU over cache and memory king AMD. It will be more like Arc GPU competing with 7900xt.
Ahahahaha
These are the types of games I wish more benchmarkers actually took the time to test because all of them are limited by the CPU.
Exactly! Who gives a damn about games like Cyberpunk when it comes to CPU performance? Test games that are actually CPU heavy. Everytime a new CPU releases all I'm asking myself is: "okay, but how much better are Paradox games with it?" :D
@@Dsingis Paradox games and Factorio are the true CPU benchmark. Everything else is child's play.
@@Dsingisyeach abd buying a pc for paradox games specificly is damm near immposible beacuse no one benchmarks them. alghtough recently at least stellaris and factorio are being taken into consideration
@@Dsingis "But how well can it run Dwarf Fortress" is a constant question I ask each generation.
I have 10,000 hours in rimworld and there is precisely ONE video (in german) about the 5800X3D's performance in it.
It's such a demanding, (mostly) single core game.... i can't tell you how often i'm stuck at about 14fps with an R72700. It's a no-brainer test for me.
The Dota community actually noticed this CPU because it performs incredibly well with the game compared to other CPUs on the market. Like 20% higher average frame rates. Well done AMD.
We should tell Louis Rossmann that, since DOTA is the only game he plays. And if he ever finds his DaVinci dongle, I'm sure the 5800X3D is an excellent video editor too.
@@SirReptitious No, Amd 5900 is a lot better even 5800x is better.
went from 5600x (190ish fps) to 5800x3d and glued at 240 fps no stutters even in late game madness
I have the 5800 X3D and that processor is literally a POS when it comes to 4K. The regular 5800 X doesn't choke as bad with a 3090. My comment is referring to 4K usage as I don't waste my time with anything at a lower resolution.
@@jamesm568 I don't get it. Isn't 4k gaming more GPU bound than CPU. Shouldn't you be seeing negligible differences with the use of either 5800X or 5800X3D. Both have same cores and same threads. Or is it because 5800X3D can't overclock and as a result has lower boost clock than 5800X?
Seems like the X3D is a real good fit for simulation games where the core game data is in the ballpark of the cache size.
Not sarcasm: I am glad to see someone do Dwarf Fortress in benchmarks
I just susbcribed on floatplane because I requested DF and got it
Finally the important gaming benchmarks.
exactly. And not stupid 200 above fps
Finally found a review that tested actually CPU limited games. I have no idea why every other review tests stuff like cyberpunk.
i love playing CPU bound games, and I feel this video only validates my recent purchase of a 7800X3D. Feels great!
In an age where you can run a game out of your cache, memory access feels more like a modern day swap. SRAM ftw!
I'm already envisioning some memes with people making cachedrives for some older games that are small enough to fit inside cache, whether it improves performance or not.
Hey 3k...
"We build better Worlds"
@@michelvanbriemen3459 Practically impossible because you can't directly address the CPU cache. Remember the CPU cache was always designed to accelerate memory, and from an addressing standpoint is invisible to the programmer. Sure, the programmer can use certain data structures or algorithms over others that make better use of the cache vs other structures/algorithms when mindful that there is a large cache to work with, but ultimately you don't have direct control of the CPU cache's contents as a programmer.
@@davidbuddy not even if you write in x86?
@@michelvanbriemen3459 People already cram virtual disks into GPU VRAM. It's high-latency and random i/o is abysmal, but 5-8 gigs of 16-lanes backed storage is sure fast.
I am super excited to finally see a review of a CPU that includes games that actually stress a CPU! If I may recommend other things to try, late stage Rimworld and heavy technical/redstone Minecraft worlds also cache thrash badly. Those would be great to see.
I've been looking for a video that shows late stage Rimworld on this CPU since it's the game I play the most and it crushes CPU like ants
Hey finally some good benchmark on most CPU demanding titles, is so hard to find this kind of information on TH-cam...
You also have The Riftbreaker at end-game if you set zoom out option On (set camera_enable_zoom "1" on config files).
There is also Supreme Commander or Stacraft II multiplayer on huge maps like 4v4 and probably most real time strategy games if complex enough.
Any of this games could put most CPUs into their knees under the right scenarios.
The only hard part is to find those scenarios, end-game with pre-build maps ain't easy to setup for benchmarks.
In age of empires 2 définitive edition there is a benchmark to check if you can play rank. And you can press F11 to show fps. The score of 5800x vs 5800x3d would be amazing to see.
I wonder if you could test Rimworld on the 5800X3D?
Late game it can slow down to a crawl when you have massive raids and lots of loot and corpses on the map.
I bet it would help.
I know this was posted 5 months ago, but I saw a review where someone tested it and it performed really well. It kept itself above 25 fps iirc, while the 3800x (yes, 3800x) struggled with 17 fps. There was about 100 pawns on the map.
Of course 5000 ryzen is already an upgrade, but I would guess its somewhere between these two
Wanted to just add, RimWorld doesn't seem too dependent on the cache. In my late game I modded I upgraded from a Ryzen 5 3600 to both the 13900k and 7800x3D (which is even more recent).
13900k led to a 80%+ increase in performance compared to the 7800X3D which barely doubled (44%) my FPS. Also ran the 1000 colonist benchmark on 1.4 with them that someone posted earlier on a thread
For those interested in RimWorld specifically, it seems to lean much more on single core clock speeds than cache. Either option will definitely improve your experience if you upgrade from a 4+ year old CPU like me though
THIS, this honestly solidified my decision since I have a massive catalogue of of games dating back 15 years that I shuffle through, some modded old games like STALKER anomaly uses 1 single core to 100% so I suspect going for 7800x3d is a better choice than intel 13th gen.
What a coincidence! I was googling '5800X3D Stellaris performance' just the other day.
They are watching you....
Wendell had Stellaris running in the background in several videos. Very nice! We all know how endgame Stellaris really kills the fun with the slowdown. Glad more cache helps here, can't wait for Zen4+3D Vcache
@@jzilla1234
Yep, Big Brother AND is watching him.
Thank you for this Wendell - if there's something that drives me nuts about the testing of new hardware by the tech media, it's the ridiculous picks for gaming benchmarks. I don't play much of any triple As and don't really know many that do, me and the people I game with always end up on games like some of those in here, a lot of simulations, indies, etc. While the list of games chosen for benchmarking shouldn't necessarily represent me because I'm pretty sure I don't represent most gamers in my choices, the chosen games should be more than just "big PR triple A titles of the last 3-4 years". The market/consumer base is obviously SIGNIFICANTLY more diverse than that, but we NEVER see that play out in the choices made for actual testing and it drives me nuts because, frankly, the vast majority of game testing for hardware benchmarking is just unrelatable for me, and it's frustrating because it would only take a few different games to add a greater scope of context for the results.
Also, REALLY have the urge to play Stellaris now...
This! Couldn't agree more.
Same bwuh. Imagine buying AAA games..
Agreed, hence I started doing my own testing playing modded indi/AAA games and posting it to my YT channel.
99% of my games does not get tested by the tech press and I saw massive gains with more indi RTS/RPGs + MMORPG's like SWTOR and Kenshi.
Horizon Zero Dawn and Shadow of the tomb raider also REALLY loves the 5800X3D for some reason.
Heavily modded Kenshi is one of my best examples where now the game is actually playable compared to before where I stopped playing the game, because of constant crashing and unplayable framerates.
If you're a sim racer, the 5800X3D does wonders, especially if you have a decent gpu.
Would you be able to take a look at the 5800X3d performance with linux/proton? I think you're the only one who might do that.
There's a phoronix article that found it wasn't so great for the greater suite. Not any worse than normal but not the 20%+ gains you see in a lot of gaming.
I'm just like you when it comes to gaming and can say that this 5800x3D is a blast for all of my indi/poorly optimized games.
I'm generally more of a indi/older game type of guy so I'm glad I picked up this CPU to pair with my RTX3080Ti.
I especially mod many games and Kenchi for example runs really well on my 5800x3D.
Man, I'm really having a hard time deciding between 13600k/13700k and 7800x3d. Have you come across AMD specific bugs?
I also play a lot of indie/emulated/old windows games. I worry that AMD will have compatibility/support issues...
I know that there have been issues in the past, like with Max Payne or Mass Effect.
@@AR-ey1ur Hi man I fully understand and they are all honestly very good options that you will be very happy with.
If you can wait and only play games then I would personally recommend the 7800x3D.
If you are on a budget but want an easy plug and play experience with very competitive performance then the 5800X3D will be the best balanced option between max performance, ease of use and budget.
You literally only need a cheap air cooler, some DDR4 memory and most AM4 boards will support it, but I personally recommend a B550.
The B550 Strix options are all pretty great and I'm currently rocking a B550 Strix A gaming board.
All of the intel options you mentioned in your comment are also great options especially if you are willing to spend a day or 2 tuning your system and getting a expensive cpu cooler with expensive RAM.
If you play with a ton of emulators that is especially AVX512 heavy then give intel and the Ryzen 7000 series a hard look.
Lastly this goes without saying but watch benchmarks on what you do the most.
Also to clarify, I've never had any bugs or issues with AMD CPU's and in general not with intel CPUs either so that shouldn't be a factor in your decision making at all.
@@AR-ey1ur On a side note, you may have problems with the 13600k/13700k regarding compatibility with older games, especially those that still uses some form of denuvo.
This is personally a big reason why I don't even consider the intel CPUs with E-Cores and would only buy something like the 13400, but this is entirely only me and shouldn't be a problem in general.
@@dawienel1142 Thanks for your comment.
Before I was pissed about ecores, which I considered to be trash cores, but now I think of them as bonus cores (perhaps for some background tasks).
I have indeed heard about issues with ecores and denovo, but that can probably be very easily fixed by disabling ecores for the problematic game (if it hasn't been patched).
The issue with AMD, on the other hand, for example in the case of Max Payne is that new AMD processors don't support 3dnow.
There is also the fact that, according to steam, still twice as many people use Intel than AMD cpus. So, I'm not sure if devs of niche/indie software/games will pay the same amount of attention to AMD.
@@AR-ey1ur Please confirm which Max Payne game/version?
I have played tons of Max Payne in the past with no issues so will quickly give it a test.
Does it simply not work on new AMD CPU's?
I upgraded to a 5800X 3D this week. Stray is WAY smoother on this CPU than on a 5800X. No more stuttering or frame drops. The framerate consistency on this CPU is incredible.
What games do you play and in what resolution? I’m considering getting 5800X3D and moving my 5800X to B350 motherboard.
This is the sort of thing i want to know about.
FPS isn't everything. Frametime, simulation time, the FEEL of the game can be completely different with the same framerate, depending on so many different things.
RAM (speed, timings and quantity), CPU frequency and cache size, storage speed, other stuff running on your computer, mods you have installled... even computer uptime.
It all plays a role in the feel of the game. You all know what i'm talking about. A fresh windows install, on a computer that just booted up, with no bloat... there's no comparison.
Very happy to see an in depth look at the differences that 3D cache makes.
When I saw "Odd games" I immediately thought Dwarf Fortress one of my favorites. Not knowing you'd actually mention it but you did! Even my 8086k can get bogged down with a large embark area and I've always wondered, outside of single core speed what would help it run even better?
These are the only 5800x3D benchmarks I care about. Thank you.
"in aspie games?" Love it
It will be interesting to see you compare these results with Zen 4 when it comes out.
That CPU absolutely SPANKS in assetto corsa competizione. Very impressive.
Only ever seen them here in UK as a pre-order, to date. Number of chips available i imagine is silly low. Listings on ebay at £700+ though.
I got one today from a reputable supplier and being delivered tomorrow for £450. Can't wait!
We had them in stock in Norway since release day, 5000nok = 415£
Maybe its time to upgrade from my 3700x
I think I saw Intel Thread Director is now in Linux kernel 5.18. Any plans on an Alder Lake on Linux update video on Level1Linux?
Second this, I was debating between vcache and alder lake for a game server, but if alder lake and linuix still don't mix....
Star Citizen also shows great performance gains with the 5800X3D
....the game that's never gonna be finished lol...
@@bmxriderforlife1234 No MMO is ever finished 🤷♂️
It looks like the CPU makers have been slacking on gaming CPUs to add more cache so it can handle large blocks of data faster.
They added so many transistors that it bottle necks the cache size, 100MB L3 cache will give so much more performance.
And we needed this for gaming, cause you can see that 4K performance is dropping super hard in some game titles when you go from 1440p to 4K.
Now we will have GPUs with dual triple quadruple dies, and for sure that all will come with faster and bigger cache.
4K gaming is finally becoming true main stream!
Thank you
please continue benchmarking games like these you will become my hero
I'd love to know how much difference it makes in Dyson Sphere Project!
I didn't notice any difference tbh. That games slams the GPU
@@laserak9887 the fans don't even spin up on my 6700xt in dsp, it's pretty cpu bound late game
@@Angmar3 I usually get pretty bored after the first dyson sphere, but I didn't notice any difference going from 5800x to 5800x3d (With a 6900xt)
@@laserak9887 i have a 3700x so maybe that's the difference :p
The extra cache is absolutely bonkers for a lot of games. I'm still waiting on mine to get in but it's going into a nearly 5 year old x470 Crosshair VII hero (that you and buildzoid recommended btw) and it's replacing my old 2700x paired with a 6900xt. Can't wait to tinker with it undervolting and testing a bunch of games
same here, 2700x but with a 6800xt now... planning to get this cpu... bit afraid to bios update never done it
@@Devilaxes pretty simple really, just make sure you have a prepped USB. As always, back up everything before you do anything major like flashing a bios. I'm already on 4703 for the Crosshair VII hero
I was thinking about replacing my 2700x with the 5800x3D on an Asus X470-F motherboard
@@post-leftluddite update, I made the swap and the improvement is insane.
Loved seeing this alternative lineup of games. While I don't play all of these specifically, I play more games like them than the usual AAA lineup of benchmarks that sometimes includes Civ as the closest comparable.
Going to drop one of these in my x470 to replace my 2600x. Excited.
I debated between the 5800X3D and the 5950X. In the end, the 5950X won for me, but more due to the fact that I got the 5950X for almost the same as the 5900X's MSRP, and I really needed the extra cores more than more cache. If I was just gaming, I would have grabbed the 5800X3D, but for video editing, the 5950X was too tempting.
I even managed to get mine working without any issues on my B350 Tomahawk using the latest bios. Absolutely insane levels of backwards compatibility. I even got MSI's Kombo Strike to help me stay at higher boost clocks more often and it's still as stable as a newly built house. Love it.
Surprised nobody does benchmarks with Minecraft world generation or something like that.
It's gonna be really interesting to see how well the 58/7800X3D perform in StarField, on the updated "Creation Engine"
Does Stellaris let you set an all AI match? If you can, it might be easiest to test by setting one up letting it run to late late game like you have yours and then you can use the time from the save to a certain date to benchmark.
One correction, Factorio is probably super optimized. From what I understand they've done A LOT of work at optimization since building giant factories is a popular pasttime in the community.
Love the 5800x3d - grab PBO2 Tuner and set a -20 curve and then set power levels to 120/85/130 - runs beautifully and temps never get above 60c during some heavy load gaming, no FPS loss at all. AMD needs to release a new BIOS and let more boards use AMD Overclocking and PBO on the Mobo.
I was looking for Stellaris + new CPUs with cache. Thank you!!!
Thanks so much! I was looking for a review on how well this performs on grand strategy games, but all benchmarks are only on FPS, which is not the main issue for grand strategy.
I love how Wendell says "Alder... Lake" every single time.
Would be nice if they were in stock
i had to choose between 5900x and 5800x3d . thank god i went with the x3d ... its so mutch better i paly planetside 2 and other cpu heavy games and man .... is stupid fast ... i went from a 3600 to this and fuck its good .. like holy fuck its fast ...
I also want to go from a 3600 to this but I need to be able to undervolt because of my ITX case. Run my 3600 at 3.9ghz 1.0875v
@@PHOBIAx57x dude go for it . Find a nice low price get some good thermal paste and you are set for the next 7 years
I saw that in productivity programs the 12900K beat the 5800X3D most of the time. But I would like to see how much all that L3 cache helps with multitasking. I rarely play games but my system runs 24/7(because I am on a private BT tracker so of course the more you seed the more points you have to download). It's also nice to just have everything there all the time whenever I want it w/o having to wait to boot up my PC. So I wonder if all that L3 cache would help when repairing a rar archive with multipar while downloading from usenet while watching something in MPC-HC or on YT for example...
I probably won't spring for a 5800X3D though, especially when it's selling for over MSRP. Yesterday newegg was selling the 5900X for $390. Yes, it "only" has 64MB of L3 instead of 96MB, but it has 12 cores for when you are doing something where it can be broken up easily and worked on. And if I was working on something that only needed less cores, I could turn off SMT and park some cores so that all the 64MB could be used by the remaining enabled cores. So IMHO the 5900X CURRENTLY seems like best value, both for use NOW as well as years from now.
It's an interesting question. Basically nobody does proper multitasking tests with modern CPU's, which is kind of scandalous, in my opinion.
It's difficult to say how much the larger L3 would do for that. If you have a handful of tasks which are light enough on memory access that they don't individually benefit from a larger cache, it's definitely possible that running them together with the larger cache would preserve performance that would otherwise be lost due to increased cache misses followed by DRAM access.
On the other end of the scale, if you have a number of applications which individually benefit from the extra cache, running them together would sacrifice some of that benefit - they'll run slower together than they would in sequence - but there would still be a lot fewer cache misses, so that mix of applications will still run notably faster on the 5800X3D than they would on the 5800X, due to having fewer DRAM accesses.
Unless you have a heavy hitter in the bunch, you'd need some very unusual task collection to see some benefit. I suspect most multitasking tests/benches will see no improvements. If you have an application that you have reason to believe will have 10s times more memory references than a typical process, then you might see benefit with parallel tasks as they are less likely to get overcrowded.
I can't think of a day-to-day process that would fill this niche other than like if you had 100k < 10MB torrents or something.
@@QuantumConundrum That's why I wish at least one of the tech sites would do this kind of testing - because we don't know how much difference it would make. All the sites test the same way; on a clean windows install with only the games and programs they test installed, and they test only one at a time with reboots in between.
I MAY upgrade to a 5800 X3D some time this year but only if I can use it with my motherboard (pretty sure it can work with it) and upgrade my graphics cards. Fingers crossed we get new reasonably priced cards this year.
"get" "new" "reasonably priced" - choose 2.
Isn't the 6800 XT reference 2.5 slots? The 6800 is a solid 2.
What will be the 5800 x3D cpu option for the AM5 platform (when that comes out)?
Any chance you could test 5800x3d with VM machines?
That was definitely eye opening.
cool, Imma eventually upgrade my 2700x to the 3D. Does this mean that it will also perform better for game servers such as minecraft or factorio servers?
Minecraft isn't cache sensitive, so it may perform worse than the standard 5800x since the clock speeds are also lower.
Factorio servers, absolutely. Minecraft didn't care about CPU cache but the jump from 2700x to 5800x3d will be massive
@@cluelessklutz527 Minecraft the client maybe not, but he asked about the servers. I could see them being better with larger cache.
@@morosis82 Yeah the servers aren't, in the 6ish years I've been running them
6:20 and now with a 14900K?
Please benchmark more of these types of games you would be the king for us!
Still waiting for mine...
I've heard (Phoronix) - but haven't tested it my self (at this time) - that on Linux the extra cache doesn't benefit games very much (little to no improvement). However, I've also heard that other productivity (esp server) workloads in Linux are supposed to see a good jump.
Thank you, it’s so annoying seeing people do a cpu benchmark on Call of duty, battlefield, crysis, etc.
Run cup tests ON GAMES THAT USE IT!
Subscribed 😃
It’s been an amazing improvement in Euro Truck Sim 2. My 3080 now sees almost 100% utilization compared to 40-60% with a 3600x
Hmm this makes me feel tempted to upgrade from my 8700k, as I can be pretty safe to assume gains in stellaris translate to Hearts of Iron 4 quite well.
I haven't been able to find anywhere that actually sells the MAX version of that case (with a power supply and cooler).
Has it actually being seen out in the wild for sale?
how'd you get the b450 tomahawk to work? the bios update for 5800x3d isint out for it yet > .
the fun thing about this video is actually.
I am playing stellaris right now after the patch and its so anoying how slow it is on year 2369 in a 400 star galaxy and therefore, I am looking for a new CPU. I8700k
I wonder how this cache would perform in PlanetSide 2
It destroys, google it
The under a rock talk again!
Thanks for including Stellaris it's one of the main games I play, and I was curious to see how it handled endgame
I had a feeling dwarf fortress would benefit from the extra cache, now how much faster would this be than my 3800x which sits close to idle most days.
can you make a benchmark for the 7800x3d or 9700 with dwarf fortress
6:33 that made my day.
Would it be possible to benchmark DCS?
I wonder how it can handle the insane number of physics objects when blowing stuff up in Enemy
I've been really enjoying using the x3d chip. No regrets at all!
curve optimization did wonders for my 5900x and Stellaris
Why is there 3 dislikes on this video, this guy always delivers excellent quality 🙏
Haters who hate the truth. Plain and simple
I just bought a regular 5800x because the 3DX has driven its price down.
Good choice.
Massive Plus for using DF for Benchmarking!
For people who talked about MMO, I am also in the same spot. However, the problem is, of course, MMO and other multiplayer games do not have a "benchmark" set up for testers. If every runs are under different condition, the data would not be reliable. Multiplayer games should build a benchmark tools for us.
It also does some wonderful +80-100% in VRchat
5800x3d is good for dwarf or world box?
Testing Stellaris is greatly appreciated, thank you!
What is the Intel CPU? A 12900K?
So what is the Intel cpu in stellaris?
and im here with b350 and this cpu now
same
didnt know you were doing shorts now.
You know what. Somehow when Techspot benchmarked Cities Skylines, they inexplicably chose to benchmark the framerate rather than the fast-forward simulation throughput? Maybe that would be something to catch up on.
The Masterbox NR200P reminds me of a military ammo case, just a little more broad...
Yaaaaaas this will be lovely
this caught my eye because it had the x3d and stellaris and I'd read civ 6 benefits greatly from the x3d. I thought the benefit of the 3d cache was supposed to be frames/second, so why is it helping so much for turn based games? would a 5800x3d be better than say a 7950x? also what's your intel setup. I play on a decade old i7-970 and mine is way faster than your intel chip, but not as fast as the x3d
so many neat games with this issue come to mind
supreme commander, beamng drive, kerbal space program, escape from tarkov, gta IV . im tempted to replace my r5 3600
Currently it's the best CPU for EFT
man i love the gray nr200, wish that had that when i got mine without aio
If only the case could be found in stock I had to go with the regular non-max version way back in Jan. for my wife's build because the MAX is never in stock.
This CPU perform incredibly well in Escape From Tarkov
I'd be interested in seeing the difference between the intel and 5800x3d with the game X4
well... Factorio runs perfectly fine on my over-10 year old 6core Phenom II X1100T.
did not know it had a benchmark.. gonna test it right now
Interesting would be heavily unoptimized old games, and voodoo games running with a wrapper or in CPU (software) mode
But for that, the video title would be "5800 X3D Cache Loves O *L* d Games Too" :D
What's the result so we can compare it here? xp
In 2020 the only good Available cpu was 5800x, so I bought it...OMG 800% faster than my 2500k.
When I upgraded my trusty ol' Phenom II X6 to a Ryzen 5 3600 the performance on average went up to 3x-5x. Amazing!
🤣🤣🤣
I wish I could buy a NR200p MAX... since first batch...months ago, none have been around and it's $469+ for a $89 case, with $135 PSU, and $110 AIO... so $335 value...
Dayum. I almost feel bad going with 12700kf last year. These kinds of games are high up on my list of importance, I know 5800X3D is amazing for games, but I'm surprised it does _this_ well in purely CPU games.
My future processor, getting it as soon as AMD has the decency to make me one. 1800X was getting a bit old.
Also popular reviewers are the most clueless bunch of people I've ever ran into.
1. They test games I rarely play.
2. They have no clue what they are doing. Their results are always significantly off of mine.
Thanks for testing other games than the newest 3D blastermaster on super ultra settings.
can you test cities skylines 1 and kerbal space program?
RTS/TurnBased based?