What is a Soul? - Philosophy in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
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Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood...Perhaps one of the most popular and well received anime out today. One of the things that surely factors into the praise FMA gets would be it's incredibly intellectual writing. Here to talk about this week is Kato's very own, Zero. In this episode, Zero compares the issues of Alphonse to the philosopher René Descartes.
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so, i clearly cant choose the wine in front of you
Clearly, you have a dazzling intellect
@@ahmedfalahy9337 inconceivable
Calling John Locke a normie is genuinely funny considering there’s no way he can’t be one
Maybe we are all a genius but we just haven't tried hard enough.
Rip english
The thing he is tho
Interesting thoughts but there’s a bit of a problem with your ideas about Al’s soul. Old man Fu. When first meets Alphonse, he says something like “I can sense chi coming from everyone else, but I can’t sense any from this armor.” So isn’t not so much that Al’s soul is inside the suit of armor, but it’s being anchored to it. Like it’s floating around while being nailed down to a pile of metal.
The word Qi (chi) comes from the two kanji symbols meaning Air and Rice. Qi is a biological energy when broken down scientifically. So because Alphonse isn't a living thing, he can't have that biological energy.
See my comment on top (?).
@@xilverknight155
So it's metabolic energy?
Alkahestry uses the energy of human life (metabolic/bioelectric, referred to in Xing as chi) to perform transmutations, while alchemy uses the energy of tectonic movement.
"Cause he's a normie." That line delivered in such a way, made me stop the video to laugh.
Well, he is.
@@KatoBeyond I think when I was younger I believed that everyone was lying about everything, I don’t anymore.
In the second SpongeBob movie plankton kind of has The same philosophy that I do.
Does any of this kind of relate to what you’re saying?
@@gabeheartz13saravia97 I'll have to watch the second Spongebob movie again and get back to you.
@@KatoBeyond did you watch the spongebob movie
@@vinjingainer Of course
Awesome video, like a an anime flavored reminder of my philosophy course.
Keep it up!
Y'know, that's exactly what this was going for.
Rene concluded that God exists. You lack an understanding of his resolve.
There might be something supernatural as to how Al's soul was bonded to the armor, it was suggested that, the iron in the blood seal connected the soul using the iron in the armor. In folklore ghosts and other undead, which are lost souls, are inherently vulnerable to iron.
Doesn't change the fact that an soul is only worth an arm...
This may be overreaching but I've always thought that the exchange rate of "an arm and a leg"* was a reference to the idiom. Which I thought was kind of a cool and funny way to deal with the question of "how much is a soul worth?".
Austin Clark the thing is, its not like he MADE Als soul, he traded his leg so his soul can stay on earth.
Al said he saw Ed through "the thing" they've created which means that Al's soul wasn't gone but was just replaced in something else. Al only lost his body, not his entire being, and Ed's arm was just the cost to place Al's soul in the armor. That's my vision of it, an arm for a soul is not very equivalent xD
the series jumps back and forth on this but i was under the impression he traded his arm for knowledge of how to put Alphonse's soul into the armor and the exchange cost him nothing as Al's soul hadn't crossed the gate and joined his body that was why ed had to act quickly
But his soul wasn't in the world of the dead. Ed paid a price of one arm (his right arm, which, if he was right handed, increases its cost), in exchange for bringing al's soul from the "door of truth place" to reality.
In short, one arm is not the price of bringing a soul back from the dead, or making one, but the price of bringing an already existing soul to the real world.
“Accept what you see” I needed to hear this. Good bless you man
I've watched 2 videos of yours, and you've somehow become my favourite youtuber when it comes to anime haha.. keep it up fam
Know what you mean, but you should watch Aleczandrx sometime
I just see someone’s soul as a combination of their mind, personality, consciousness, memories, and emotions.
That's certainly the best definition we have now, but almost all of those are subject to unpredictable change unfortunately. None of it solves the hard problem of identity.
I like the video, but two things:
Firstly, the skit where you get up and walk around the room causes you get get too far away from your microphone, which makes a great deal of what you're saying difficult to hear. For something to deal with this, you might want to consider recording yourself saying what's being said in the skit into the mic and overdubbing it over the footage. Or just get a clip-on mic for skits like this.
Also, Latin does not have soft G sounds: all G sounds in it are hard like in the word "great".
We appreciate your feedback. Hoodie tends to handle most of the production stuff, and he seems to agree that he should have made the audio a bit louder for that part.
As for your instruction on the pronunciation of Latin, I pronounced it that way because that's how my professors had pronounced it at school. But I did a quick Google search, and it seems like you're right about that. We're both glad you enjoyed the video.
He did that on purpose dude....lmao. I loved it!!! And im an audio engineer😂😂😂😂
Nobody knows what Latin sounds like
That’s the entire mystery about it...
let alone variances in accents that might’ve occurred while it was still a living language
Please though, what else do you think you know ?
Contradiction: we can at least reconstruct the pronunciation of certain periods by the admonishments of contemporary grammarians. For example, one repudiated dropping H-es from certain words, implying that, since words influence pronunciation and vice versa, they were pronouncing it without the H sound. I would send you over to NativLang’s video on the subject.
Lock didnt watch FMAB cuz he's a normie, ILY MAN!
Going through your entire back catalog right now, just want to say you make amazing content.
I must say @Kato im so glad you delved as deep into the series as i. The philosophical concepts in this series i swear are so broad sweeping it gives me chills
I just noticed The way ed is sitting on the floor @ :16 seconds, is the same form turth took on when he first appeared to him!
You just got me interested in diving into philosophy. TBH, I've had these moments myself, but had no interest pursuing the philosophical aspects as I've felt they would be to time consuming until now.
Philosophy is deeply engaging. You won't regret your choice.
Emerson Schindel 😮
I love the fact that this show is so damn deep and also we did talk about exactly this topic in school :D
Dude- I just stumbled upon this gem here. Fantastic. Got yourself a new follower.
Great video!, you tricked me into learning a lot, I love it!
That was wild but really good and I love that you apply your knowledge of philosophy to popular culture. Thanks!!
From Arakawa's view, pulling of Ed, the agent (that amour+blood transmutation circle), and Alphonse in whole exits, so if somehow Ed dies, the pulling agent will lose its power and the consciousness (real memory includes OFC) will go all the way back to in front of the Gate. With an limited toll, Ed can only create this agent to maintain Alphonse's consciousness in the real world as he is still exist unlike their passed-away mother.
Therefore, i think it remains arguable what inside that amour is Alphonse real soul or only a blood transmutation circle that portal out his consciousness though it is mentioned that the soul reunion with the body when Alphonse 'trades' Ed's arm back. Alchemy really not works like philosophy at this point i guess. What we exist in this world and that in the world of Arakawa's work is similar but not necessarily be the same lol
So, a more interesting point is that whether the soul-bounding act is human transmutation. I list the example and explanation as below:
Type / What has been done / Result / Consequence or toll paid
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Whole human / Alchemically joining of /incomplete components of human / 100% failure / Depends on the Truth which is probably related to the one they want to transmute
Explanation (Alchemically): As making human is an godly act, layman who is crossing the boundary of being a 'God' will be given a suitable suffer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub human / Transmuting an agent that connects the body and mind that is pulled in front of the Gate (the Truth 'wearing' it) / An agent that connect those / Depends on the Truth
Explanation (Alchemically): in order to success, one must have a strong mind. The consequence of failure is unclear.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Force open the Gate / Transmuting a complete-but-dying human (the Gold-toothed Doctor) in order to force the subject (Mustang) opens his Gate / The Gate is opened and the dying one become a ?. / Depends on the Truth
Explanation: Well, either losing the Doctor and parts of Pride reduce the toll that Mustang needs to pay or they're used to make the ? to show that human transmutation is not possible with dying or passed-away person, and the the only possible human transmutation is to transmute the one who is still exist.
So, we can see that the result is highly depends on the act and the people involve. It has a larger possibility that the soul of Alphonse really drags away from the Truth.
Very great. Nicely well done. Thank you.
woah.... I came out of boredom.. I leave with a life lesson and tears, wtf. whatever you're doing to me, stop.
Hey, thanks for watching.
-Zero
Great, you captured with this video what I love about philosophy.
To ask question, just to have even more question instead of an answer :D
I'm trimming my own hair while watching over my napping son and my brain trying to follow your train of thought then end up running around in circles. But it all makes perfect sense. That was one heck of a mental roller coaster.
Great job. Keeping grinding your videos.
I absolutely love this video!!!
kato. hit this blunt with me and my soul
Love it good work!
Just found you and love your videos man, I’m not very well versed in philosophy but I want to know more, and your videos are helping me gain the interest and will to start looking into these things more. Thank you.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that you are extremely well-versed in philosophical works. You would be an amazing executive leader one day
I really enjoyed this. Fullmetal Alchemist is my favourite manga and Brotherhood is one of my favourite anime of all time and philosophy was one of my favourite subjects in school ^^
Such a beautiful video teaching a valuable lesson. 🙏😉 peace bro
This is the best Anime ever.
Great video!!! :'D
Good video. Subscribed and thumbs up.
you killed me with your last sentence!
haha the scene where you jump up is hilarious. Nice analysis!
Fantastic!! Could you please do a Philosophical video discussing the different designs on each character's Gate of Truth? It would be wonderful to hear your thoughts on it.
Amazing stuff. I want more.
I have no idea what other content you make, but I subscribed partway through this video and then you sealed it at the end, I wanted to hit subscribe again XD cheers, looking forward to going through your backlog and seeing what you have coming for the future
Philosophical debates are like yu-gi-oh games but without cards and with a lot more references to ancient dead guys
This is a good video essay!
First, thank you for bringing ideas from philosophy to the general populace. Too many are deprived of the deeper ideas only found in philosophy. Also, being a fan of FMA, I'm also glad to see someone looking to do a deeper dive on the show/manga.
That stated, I couldn't help myself after listening to your definition of metaphysics in the beginning of the video. You define it as "the study of that which exists, or is real in the world." Classically, metaphysics is known as the science of being as being (i.e., being qua being). Being can certainly be real in the world, as your definition allows for. It can also be imaginary, as with fictional beings like unicorns. It can refer to ideas which are immaterial in nature and have being in the mind. It can also refer to immaterial created beings that are pure spirit with no matter. Aristotle called these beings separated substances. Aquinas calls them angels. And finally, being can refer to the uncaused first cause of every other being that exists, God. Aquinas says of God that he is subsistent being itself and is the only necessary being. All other beings, including human beings, are contingent to the necessary existence of God.
The above is a quick summation of objective metaphysics via an Aristotelian-Aquinas view. The contemporary intellectual current does not see metaphysics as objective nor as a science. The roots of this can be found in the Cartesian Revolution of Rene Descartes which shifted philosophy/science from the conformity of the intellect to thing to the conformity of the thing to the subjective interpretation of the individual mind. This led to Kant's explicit rejection of an objective metaphysics. The intellectual current has been deprived of the holistic benefits of the Aristotelian-Aquinas model ever since, including the etymological roots of science and philosophy which are the same, "knowledge of things by their causes."
Wow...!!! amazing video....!!
Great job
Love This Video :)
This video has it all lol. Subscribed
7:08 brilliant. absolutely brilliant
Wow NICE you got to MY answer to Descartes and I didn't even realize it was in FMA. I concluded that Descartes is beyond ALL question right, nothing in reality is even a LITTLE Verifiable besides your own sentience. But the problem with that thinking, regardless of how true it is, is pragmatism. What can you ACTUALLY DO with the knowledge that what you perceive is false? You can ONLY exist and function in the reality you perceive. Whether it's true or not.
The Geckomancer but how do you know you aren’t just a Chinese room? And if you think all is data like I do, how do you know you aren’t just a pile of stones? xkcd.com/505/
My point Zachary is that it's irrelevant. All that matters is what I perceive right now. There is no objective reality and no way of knowing it if it did exist, you can ONLY exist in your perceptions. What you perceive to be real is real.
The Geckomancer but it DOES matter because philosophical zombies and AI are essentially the same thing, and as we break the mind down to ever more base components, who we are and what we are and what we think become ever more interchangeable. See: all of psychiatry.
I still don't see the relevance. Tell me how you can function in a way outside of all of the perceptions and information you have access to? You can't. That's people who drool in straight jackets because they have no connection to reality. It doesn't matter if this so called "reality" is real or not, it matters that you perceive it. That won't change no matter how deep our understanding of neurology or AI goes.
The Geckomancer but fallowing that same logic, we can point and ask, “does that person have thoughts and feelings?”
We are all essentially predictable programs. Weather Al is organic or not in origin is unknowable, even to Ed if you watched the original. But we can ask ourselves why we think or feel or even see what we do and find consistent answers that explain who we are and who others are.
These are also good questions to consider when asking if an AI can have feelings.
brilliant!
a soul: an eternal guarantee to experience
i find this video very interesting and will informative since it is related to biology more specifically anatomy and philosophy and asking the question about who am i and also coming to terms with your own identity like how Alphonse had to come to terms with his suit of armour since he was wondering if the memories of life are real or if they were created by his older brother Edward and wondering if he was ever human or that the memories of his past life where just his imagination or where controlled and manipulated by Edward
Wholesome ending there 😊 gotta love FMAB
That was deep,kind of loopy but like it.
Damn that was deep
In Psychology our experiences from reality for example, what we see, hear, taste, feel, and touch. Also, our memory is essential to sleep and the reason why we dream. To me personally I think our soul is connected to our consciousness which keeps us alive. If you learn about how the consciousness works I have a powerpoint which is created by my professor.
According to the slides I have downloaded on my laptop as powerpoint, so I can continue to self educate myself. The meaning on consciousness is awareness of sensations, thoughts, feelings we experience at any given moment.Which is the reason why we are alive. An example of consciousness is if you try to hit the back of your head good luck as you try to get your self blind. Dreams are misunderstood yet perceived differently by many people for Psychologists they see dreams as just what we experience in real life is our sensations, thoughts, and feelings. By the way we have more than 5 senses like pain, sense of temperature, and a ton of things we barely do not know about if you are interested to know more about sensations in Psychology.
Here's link to resources for self educating yourself on Psychology
courses.lumenlearning.com/bunkerhill-intropsych/
Kato the Legend
OMG I love this video! Hahahaha... I kind of screamed at one point 😂
What made you scream? Very curious.
@@KatoBeyond well... It's not exactly what you said but the sum of everything that was escalating until that point. But it was when you said that maybe it is us who don't have proof of the existence of our souls who should be questioning whether we are real at all... It was a happy scream though, I don't know how to explain it. It was both thrilled by the continuous conundrum and happily frustrated by the nature of the matter.
I'm an English teacher you see, but I used to be a linguist and particularly into cognitive linguistics and cognitive science in general. I have approached this question before but adopting one of my preferred schools of thought for explaining cognition: emergentism. That, of course, sort of evaporates with Al not having a brain anymore... unless you say the emergency of his "mind", which we could equate to a concept of a soul, happened before and then that "mind" could be transported into the suit of armour even without the brain, becuase his brain in theory still exists so you could create a link between that in the real of truth and the suit.... But... You see? "Ahhhhh!!"
😂
@@KatherinaBathory Ah, we are kindred spirits lol.
@@KatoBeyond lol. I guess you are right!
Deep!!!! ✊🏾💯
Well in mathematics you can't say anything unless there were axioms wich are statements you consider to be truth without any proof and you continue on like that , that tells us that you can't doupt everything , you need to take some facts for granted and keep building from there on
That's a very good point, and I believe some argue on whether or not you can directly apply the logic of mathematics to distinctly-human issues, or if these issues belong to a different realm that we aren't entirely familiar with.
When he spoke of chaining memories together until you reached the desired moment, it brought to mind the concept of mathematical induction. I wonder if such a technique has been applied to any of the questions posed by this video, and if any meaningful results could be taken from it.
Would you say that we tend to accept the axiom of the soul, or the axiom of the fundamental being, and from that we form the basis of our being?
Many accept religion as an axiom, and many say accepting it as such is problematic and that we must still question everything.
I don't think mathematics makes the philosophical argument on whether or not its axioms are objectively true, it merely asserts that accepting them forms the basis of our entire way of understanding and way of doing things, which has proved to be very useful.
A C what I am saying is that no one can doupt everything and then actually make a logical statement , for you to have some actual ideas you need to have axioms , but there is no hint on what these axioms are , they are in the end just like in mathematics , arbitrary . So what we should do is chose the most logical sounding , the most self evident ideas and lay them as our axioms and continue on from there .
Natural Philosophy--that being the hard sciences--are usually the basis for that sort of thing; that and mathematics.
It is also worth noting that the entirety of matematics can be derived from the axioms 'things are equal to themselves; things are not equal to not themselves'.
For philosophy this would be I think therfore I am myself; you think therefor I am not you.
Any further axioms are unnecesseary.
It is also worth adding that it is generally accepted that unfalsifyable theorems hold no predictive value and can be safely ignored.
this is deep bro
You're very awesome. 😁
So are you.
like understanding the human body and creating the form of systemic doubt and coming to terms with your own body and identity and having a question about who am i and wondering about who you really are and coming to terms with it
You should definitely check out Rene Decartes' Meditations
@@KatoBeyondwill do thanks for the recommendation
It is what it is, I am what I am.
*Dubito ergo cogito ergo sum* the doubting is an important element regarding the Descartes thought process.
you a smart one
I think, you will be interesting person sit and have conversation with in a bar regarding philosophy. After the midnight i guess the conversation will still go and questions will be unanswered.. Philosophy is really interesting.
god damn you. After watching a few of your videos you made go watch the show again.
episode 10 minute 16 onward. the pain you put me through. It's a horrible day for rain.
All you need is background music from the show
So ultimately Descartes was wrong. It's not "i think therefore i am", it's really "i am, therefore i think", giving meaning to his existence just by existing and a goal by helping his brother get his body back. So is TRUTH the ultimate lie, a blinder to those who it?
Deductive logic works backwards in causality.
Descartes was correct.
He thinks which means he must exist, since for him to think he must first exist.
I like the way you think
Am i missing something? Isnt the time before last thursday Wednesday? Why thursday specifically?
It was chosen as an arbitrary date, as the real time of the universe’s generation does not matter in the context of the conjecture. Thus, Thursday.
My epistemology and metaphysics are both the same:
All And One, which is to say All, or One, because One Is All and All Is One.
Anything can be known, because everything is as already known as the back of your hand; completely and not at all. ;)
Ok horseshoe centrist
@@akio4753 Do you know why you hate?
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606 I hate because it is human nature to do so, to hate is just as human as to eat.
Aswell as
Hate is born from fear. Fear is born from the unknown. The unknown is the lack of anything within the skulls of centrists and political moderates.
@@akio4753 The unknown does not _necessarily_ cause fear, and I am not so apathetic or ignorant to be 'centrist' as you call it.
Quite the opposite, in fact.
I personally believe that any government is flawed, as would be normally associated with Anarchists. Although, I also believe that if the vast majority of a population decides to make a government, it would be immoral to deny that group the capability of doing so, on the condition that anyone who chooses not to be part of that government is allowed such. This opinion suggests that I would be extremely pro-choice on EVERY issue, even if not entirely Anarchist.
HOWEVER.
I understand that working as a unified Civilization _can_ be beneficial to the entire population, if handled properly. And in my opinion, a civilization handled properly is one where total democracy meets total, communal equality: Every citizen votes on every issue, with all available information described in equal detail and manner to every citizen.
Should this person be penalized for not doing work, despite being fed working rations? Let all knowledge of the situation be shown simultaneously to the entire population, and let democracy decide. While this might seem to suggest me being extremely Democratic, even if not entirely pro-choice, I assure you that it means the opposite. I believe that no one should be punished for making their OWN decision, despite what a population might think.
The above opinions are based on my own experiences and knowledge, and how I believe people should be treated.
NOW do you think me so apathetic or ignorant?
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606 Yes, because i refuse to read the entirety of your comment that takes up the entire space of my screen, and therefore know not what it says, and that angers me.
I thought he confirmed an instance of his past that only was known by Winry and him since they were separate from Al at that time. I may be wrong, or it is different for one of the iterations
3:35 , this is similar to the ship of thesus thought experiment
So what you're saying is that if I'm wearing a suit of armor, then my memories are my soul.
Your soul is your consciousness
In my real life philosophy I say that the self is just a mask god wears for one of infinite stories with a fully fleshed out life and even, probably infinite possible alternative paths.
u had ur shirt on backwards
the blur covers it well tho
Kato I know your not going read this but can you explain to me why the gate of truth is in the opening of eva
There is a thing later, that Winry knows something that only she and Allphonse knows, but not Edward. Then this proves that he is indeed a soul, 'cause you can't 'create' a memory you don't know.
Personal Identity
Using the idea that the soul is quantum in nature. One's attachment to it's soul is only as strong as one's belief in the attachment(the one being John Locke's consciousness *cough* prima materia *cough*). Therefore our identity consists of the attachments we bond to our soul. Edward bound Al's identity to the suit of armor which is why Al questions the bond. Said questioning would continue until no it is longer sustainable which if I remember was addressed in the series. Finally this proves Descartes premise being that I think therefore I am as in Al does not think he is himself but a projection of Ed therefore he is slowly ceasing to be.
Edward didn't know why winry rejected alphonse and hence edward couldn't have fabricated that memory. But winry remembers it so it must have happened. Isn't that proof that alphonses memories aren't fabricated
Thank you
HxH hit on this you guys Should do HxH analysis
Marcus Henry when did HxH address the origins of knowledge/epistemology?
Hey Vsauce,Kato here!
7:09 Can you add subtitles for this part? The automatic subtitles aren't accurate so all I'm hearing is "....assumption.... armor.... ........ ....."
In arabic the word for human being is "insan" which means "to forget"... The human being is the one who forgets...
Watch Inspiring Philosophy's playlist "The Irreducible Mind". The video titles are:
Neuroscientific Evidence
Hard Problem of Consciousness
Physicalist Arguments Debunked
Quantum Biology
Near Death Experiences
Well.. that was pretty deep
I think therefore I exist, even if I work it StarBucks Carl.
in alfonz's situation, barry the butcher was a soul taken from a real human and put into a suit of armor and al had the same process done to him. so that means that al was a soul taken out of a person and put into armor too
Unless it wasn't the same process. You're basically just taking Ed's word that it was. I mean, as the viewer we know it was, but Alphonse didn't.
What is Real?
We can Touch, Smell, overall Feel..
What is that..?
My dream is Real.
We are all the Ship of Theseus.
For what could equal the value of a human soul ?
I have concluded that gods are very much like souls.
- Lezard Valeth
Valkyrie Profile of Square Enix
What I will never understand about people like Al or the religious is why does it matter from where or how we came to be? For Al, it's extremely important that he had an original body and for the religious, it's important that the universe came from some god and that this god(s) had a purpose in mind. Why does any of that matter? I'm an optimistic nihilist, so I guess you can sum up my confusion with that label. I think all that matters is that we're here now and we can continue for the time being. Whether we're in a simulation, were created last Tuesday, or are clones of who we thought we were doesn't matter. What matters is the present more than anything else.
Last Thursdayism
Reality is realitive. It does not matter if reality was created last Thursday as what is ancient would still maintain the same relation to last Thursday. If one were to time travel back two Thursdays ago they may only physically return to last Thursday(given that's the earliest time possible) but would still be able to "experience" two Thursdays ago relatively.
Here's a trip if Ed used "Ed's memories" of Al to bond Al's consciousness to the armor would Truth be able to generate the rest of "Al's memories" by reflecting "Ed's memories" off of last Thursday becoming "Al's memories" onto the suit of armor? (This will be important in a future comment)
I also disagree with Descartes's conclusion on how to build the world back up from his doubt. I mean I agree with the fact that even if everything else is a lie, that nothing could trick you into thinking to such a degree that you could question yourself without you actually existing. It's just that Descartes was a religious man, so he reconstructed the world through the Divine Light of Reason, which was given to him by God, and he knows God exists thanks to the Divine Light of Reason.
Precisely. I think; therefore I am makes sense to me, but I think the remainder of his Meditations showed a bit too much faith, which betrays the methodology he was going for.
-Zero
A soul needs a vessel like our body.
Like the little One in the flask needs a vessel.
Rather than i think therefore i am. it could be I am therefore i think. Or maybe its simply if i think then i am, if i am then i think. if we use a method which strips us of all physicality what remains is our sense of self or our image of ourself. As long as we have a preconceived notion of self. If a person started off as a brain in a vat then that preconceived notion of self would simply be thought in that the brain could think. the brain thoughts would be the totality of itself since its consciousness in its purest form. however if the brain were within a body with senses when it first creates a sense of self, it would automatically attribute self in terms of both its thoughts and its senses through its body. It seems like its a question what state yourself is when you first become aware. No body and you are simply pure thought. If you have a body with senses then your a culmination of both thoughts and experiences. If you feel that your sense of self has been manipulated in terms of your thoughts then you'd most likely go mad.