I played my first three games yesterday and today. Your house rules really helped. It will take a while before I figure out exactly what I want, but you've pointed me in the right direction. Game doesn't seem to need a lot of tweaking.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you found the video useful. It's a really fun game; it's really just about finding the right balance for spawning. I found it far too slow, but a few people have said they were very happy with the rules out of the box.
The movement rule as written in the book where heroes can sort of float over other heroes who might be adjacent to enemies is how I have house ruled HeroQuest, Silver Tower and BSF. Glad to hear that I wasn't alone in thinking that way. How I justify it is that our ally is sort of keeping the enemy busy already in that particular space and allows the active hero to sneak through.
Thanks for watching. Cursed City has consumed my thoughts for a few weeks now; so I might just have a short break from it unless anything major turns up that I need to report on.
The smallest corrections are always the best. Good job. Im glad that Ive waited until I have my whole set painted to play it, it gives the community a chance to fix what the publishers did not. Rule tweaks are a pretty consistent thing in the WHQ games anyway.
I don't mind so much a few minor adjustments. I'm actually thinking of trying an alternative house rule set which does even less to change up the system - just playing against enemy groups that are one level higher and which spawn on random gates. That might be enough to create a challenging experience that's still fun and just a touch on the lighter side of gaming for people who don't want to feel like they are constantly bombarded with new threats. It also would completely bypass the level 0 spawn groups, which aren't very exciting (for example, Halgrim without his Ulfenwatch isn't really any kind of threat).
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring That would be a quick and dirty fix. Would you keep the final level of spawn the same, and chalk the hero's finally catching up with the enemy strength as a reward for getting characters to the final level? Or would you just sus out a few extra baddies of each type and make a final enemy tier? GW is going to release this new vamp army eventually, Im sure it wouldn't be hard to pick up 2 or 3 extra skeletons, bats, ect.
@@DustyLamp Well, I don't want to say too much about the end of the game, but if you look at the required level to defeat Radukar (and therefore win the campaign) it's level 4, not level 5. Probably the best way to play at level 5 would be to add level 5 and level 0 spawns together (although that's off the top of my head - I haven't checked if the numbers work out).
Your version of Driven Off seems like a solid house rule. I might incorporate it right away once I get this on the table. I don't mind house rules in my boardgames. As a teen I was into PC modding scene so the idea of tailoring a game to be more fitting for my personal preferences has always been a given. Looking forward to your non-CC content in the coming weeks.
I grew up playing things like HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest, where you were basically just playing in the sand, doing whatever the heck you wanted. I think that's why I don't really think about tweaking GW games too much. It's burned into my personality!
I have taken to nixing the driven off rule entirely for more challenging play but am pre-level 4. Instead, I move the card to what would be 0 on the tracker ensuring they go first putting a bit of pressure on as I can't fathom undead things fleeing for survival in the spirit of the game. I've also disallowed inspiration points for those kills in the 0 space. Thus far, I've never had more than a single card sink that low on the tracker. Thoughts at later levels?
I can see the bats and rats running away (maybe to tell Torgillius there are powerful heroes here), and I assume you've weakened the zombies and skeletons in some way so they just collapse rather than running off. Someone else in the comments is doing something similar to you, with an overflow group to catch all enemies that are driven off. You may find it becomes very tough later on, but it depends on what other house rules you're using (if any). When I was testing the rules explained in this vide, games at level 3 and 4 were incredibly tough, and I was happy for the slightest break from something being driven off. But the only thing you can do is try it. I wouldn't deny heroes inspiration points, thouhgh. Once they are inspired and the card flips, they no longer get the bonus inspiration from their Path to Glory, so it becomes much harder to get the points anyway.
It's fun to tinker with the balance if you're finding it too easy or too hard. I'm always wary of rules that keep too many models on the board though, as the later spawn groups can be quite large and it might turn the game into a bit of a dice-flinging slog as you wade through endless hordes. I hope you manage to find a balance of rules you're happy with!
I think thematically the movement rule makes sense - an enemy isn't going to just let you run past them, however, if one of your team mates is already occupying their attention, you can run past.
Yes, I think it's a thematic rule - although it could be argued the other way that you shouldn't be able to just wander through the middle of a group of characters that are fighting. The official rule opens up movement a bit more; playing the other way is a bit more restrictive and I think adds some extra pressure so might be something people might want to consider if they find the game too easy.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring It could pave the way for some amusing character role playing: "thanks for leaving me fight these rats by myself!" "You look like you can handle it!" With regards to the enemy spawning rule, does that only apply to the hunting/scavenge missions?
Not sure whey I'll be able to get a copy of this but I'm really enjoying the creative ideas and content for the game, must watch channel here! Cheers and looking forward to the next episode.
I like your quick advancement rules. I dislike playing campaign mode and this way makes me play whatever level I want while having appropriate treasure
Glad you found it helpful. The campaign can drag a little bit in Cursed City, as I think it makes you play some levels a bit too often just to keep the threat down, so it's nice to have a workaround sometimes.
I'm thinking that elite units like Kosargi and Vrykos vampires get the driven off attack as they leave while basic units don't. I've also house ruled something else for it that makes night more punishing. at night when a group is driven off the remaining models on the board aren't removed, they just get added to a 5th group comprised of all leftover models (as groups can't be driven off while a unique enemy is on the board this 5th group can never contain unique enemies). this 5th group activates at the end of every turn after every other hero and group has taken their turns. also I've formed a bit of a comprimise on the movement thing, I make it so that if you pass through a space containing another hero that is ajacent to a hostile then the moving hero can only move one more space and that move must leave it ajacent to the same hostile, that way the hostile is still able to hold up the whole group but the group's individual members are much less likely to get trapped in a room. using the example that you showed if Van Alten wanted to move through Jelsen's spot then he'd only be able to finish that move one square away from Jelsen *and* ajacent to the rat swarm
Interesting ideas. At the high levels, I think a fifth group would be a real challenge. I get my ass handed to my enough as it is! There are so many little tweaks back and forth that can be made. The core system makes it very easy.
I was trying to find any place in the rules where they consider a scenario in which an entire enemy group category is killed during a turn. Their driven off rules are nice for groups partially defeated but it almost feels like they forgot that it would be possible to kill three rats in a turn. Of course " a third or less" includes 0, but it seems a major oversight. Probably stuck between a rock and hard place with reinforcement rules.
In my first game I went backwards and forwards through the rules looking for anything to suggest you treat it differently, but it can only fall into the same rules as handling partial groups. Checking for driven off at the end of the turn has resolved it for me.
I have not played the game yet, but watching your video i was wondering: would it be more more challenging if you reveal the card replacing the one that has been driven off, at the end of the turn instead of the next group activation? (so Gorslav would appear at the end of the turn in wich the rats are driven off, and do his mouvment at this point) Did you mention that Gorslav can bury you alive?
It's an interesting idea, but there are a few issues. I think it would actually be challenging to a severe degree. If you kill all four groups at once, you would suddenly get four back-to-back adversary activations at the end of the turn. That's quite a disruption to the standard flow of play, and is also a lot of extra enemy activations to deal with without having the chance to play gambits and reconfigure the flow of play to your advantage. The heroes are basically having to deal with eight adversary groups in one turn. Furthermore, you're giving each adversary group an extra free activation, which is going to be incredibly tough to deal with as they will close the distance rapidly and heroes will find they get bogged down, constantly just rolling dice against a never-ending onslaught. You really need small breaks in the waves to allow for movement and repositioning of the team. Also, in later levels, when you have bosses running around the board as standard things are already tough. I think this would tip the balance too far. But of course, it's a balancing act. Give it a try and see what you think.
I'm currently playing with your random enemy spawning household rule and it works really well. Just one thing. You say when an enemy activates for the first time its action must be a advance action. I can''t seem to find it anywere in the rulebook. Where did you read that rule?
Not when an enemy activates for the first time, but when an enemy is deployed as a reinforcement. It's point 5 under Deploying Reinforcements on page 31 of the rules.
I purchased Cursed City a week ago. I’ve played many many hours of Blackstone Fortress and really enjoyed it (especially the Escalation expansion that brought some more narrative in). I’m considering purchasing the first two Quest games (Silver Tower and Shadows over Hammerhal). Since they’re quite expensive I’d like to know if it’s worth it or will it be kind of „going back“ in rules and quality, since I’ve played the two newer ones? Will I „gain“ something besides making the collection whole (for many euros I can spend elsewhere)?
I've talked about Silver Tower and Shadows Over Hammerhall extensively on the channel. I would recommend checking out my full reviews of them as they all do different things and they all have shortcomings. Shadows Over Hammerhall requires a dungeon master and is one single highly narrative adventure in a sprawling dungeon, while Silver Tower feels like a group storytelling game with a unique setting and lots of unusual events. As they are both out of print and expensive, I definitely wouldn't suggest anyone buy them without making sure they are going to enjoy them, which is why you might want to look at some of the other videos I have made about them (as well as checking out the views from other content creators).
Finally got my hands on CC. My wife and I need to finish Ascension, so I have started painting and hope I can get all those glorious models painted up before we try to rescue Ulfrnkarn.
RAW, you must stop when entering into an enemy´s adjacent square only when you perform a WALK (1+) action. If you RUN (3+) you are not affected by that rule, the handbook specifically refers to WALK and does not mention RUN. Am i right?
No. The rules specifically state "Run: When a hero makes this action, they make a MOVE action following the rules above, but can move a number of spaces equal to the second number of the Move value on their character card." So, regardless of whether you Move or Run, it's still a Move action and you still have to stop when you move adjacent to an enemy.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thank you !! I had skipped that one. I am starting with this game now, i will of course try your little tweaks which seem to improve the game a lot. Thanks !!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Just one last question: If a decimated enemy unit is going to be activated anyway... why waiting until the event phase to check if it´s driven off, and not doing it just right after the activation? It would be something between the RAW (weapon action and removed) and yours (behaviour activation and stays until events phase).
I've seen an interesting thread on BGG from Peter Cooper that I would love your thoughts on. He has even created modified hostile cards as well as already come up with an expansion using the underworld beastgrave grymwatch. I don't know how well his "fixes" scale, but it definitely looks like it is worth a look.
I haven't checked them out yet, and I don't personally enjoy modifying a game to the point where you're rewriting that level of content. I don't give my impressions of other people's house rules; he's going to have put a lot of effort into that which is awesome. Best thing to do is give them a whirl and see what you think of them.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I can definitely understand that. Thank you for the reply. I'll probably start with the most minimal house rule similar to yours and see how it goes from there.
@@bartonalfredstone No worries. House rules are all about making a game into the game you want it to be, so there's no right or wrong way to do it. It's all about being happy with the game you've bought. Peter's an incredibly creative person, with a very strong idea of what he wants out of his Quest games.
It plays much better that way, and considering they use that approach in the boss fights, I have no idea why they felt the need for it to be different in the other game modes.
I have always said that you're a brilliant tutor and it's my brain thats slow when I don't understand something within how a game is played. So young man, side tracking slightly, can you give me an example please of what would make me decide which of the 3 journeys I would need to take to be of benefit to me as I head up through the levels. I understand that there is obviously 3 to choose from and what each ones benefits are, but I can't get my head around which one would be best to pick to help me keep the fear and intelligence in my favour. Surely it can't just be me that's scratching my brain on tis one, or is it. Many thanks and much appreciated,
So, at the start of the game Fear (F) is at 5 and Influence (I) is at 6. This is to encourage you to start the game with a Hunt, which will leave you at (assuming you win) F6, I4. The idea being, you then play a Deliverance mission to decrease Fear, at the cost of a little Influence increase, leaving you at F4, I5. However, I would recommend starting the campaign with a Scavenge. It's the best way to build characters, gives you loads of items and realmstones (hint: take the Karadron Overlord as he can carry more items, and remember that realmstones aren't items and you can carry as much as you want), and it gives you a quick boost early in the game to make subsequent missions easier, the downside is you gain one Fear and one Influence, but you'll be much stronger when you go on journeys to bring those values back down. After your Scavenge mission, do a Hunt, and then a Deliverance mission. At that point, your team is at Level 1, you've boosted them with items and upgrades, and controlled Fear and Influence. You can then do that cycle again, or you can tackle the first boss - it's better to tackle the boss because you can't progress beyond Level 1 until you do. Also, note that if you win a Boss fight, neither Fear nor Influence increases. After the first boss, make sure you Scavenge again - you might find you can do it a few times before you feel the need to do a Hunt or a Deliverance mission. The more you scavenge, the better positioned you will be. After three missions you will be at Level 2 and ready to take on the next two bosses (note they are the same level - you can face them back to back, and as long as you win you suffer no penalty). And so on. Usually, it ends up being one of each mission to level up, then one or two boss fights. Repeat. Sometimes a crisis can cause problems and increase one of the values, forcing you to do a different type of mission, but you'll know when that happens. As long as you don't let any one level get to high (you lose if either reaches 10) it's not too hard to figure out what's going to be the best move for your team at any one point. Oh, and remember that at some point, you can probably stop scavenging. Each hero can only have one item and two upgrades, so there's no point scavenging unless there's something really powerful you are trying to get.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring OMG this brilliant reply is incredibly appreciated, I really am very grateful for your time that it's taken. I'm going to have a couple of reads through this to let it all sink in and start putting it into practice tomorrow, or should I say later today, Once again, many thanks for your time, I'm extremely grateful,
@@Bassmunchkin1 You're welcome. I'm by no means a strategy expert or anything, but I hope it helps. I feel you can't go wrong with some early game boosts on your characters. Just remember that a permanent character death can throw a spanner in the works, but you can fast-track their XP gain by sending them on missions with stronger heroes.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yep thanks for the reminder and I've now got all your brilliant help ready, as I'm going to start all over again (I only reached level 1 and 3 models were out of action), so I'll be following your valued advice, especially using the Karadron Overlord. Once again much appreciated
I have played driven off wrong, i guess... I took it as "if all enemies are defeated, they are driven off instantly and replaced by face down card". It was faster and harder, now im not sure i want to play it by the book.
Is anyone able to answer this on the reaction rule: Can a hero make a reaction attack triggered by the movement of a hostile which was not visible to the hero when it began its move, but became visible at the end of its move? And can a single hostile trigger multiple reaction attacks by a single hero in the same turn? ie. one reaction attack when the hostile deploys, then another when the hostile has moved, and one more once the hostile has attacked? l'm trying to read the rule as mechanically as I can but still come up with more than one interpretation >_
Of course. The point of a reaction is to be able to attack those enemies that you couldn't attack during your activation, and that's commonly because you couldn't see them. As per the rules - "make a weapon action when a hostile that is visible to the hero finishes a move action..." Whether a hostile is visible or not may change during its activation, but if it's visible when it finishes the move, you can attack it. If it was visible, but then moved so it's not visible when it finishes the move, then you can't attack it. Also, the rules clearly state you can make reaction attacks when an enemy is deployed, so of course those enemies wouldn't have been visible before because they weren't on the board! Finally, the rules state each hero can make one reaction per trigger, so it's fine to make multiple reactions against the same enemy, one after each triggering event.
One thing, the move over a hero when adjacent to a enemy it is allowed because the space is occupied by a hero but you still must spend a extra move to move away from the enemy I do not think you were clear on that. So while you can move around encounters by blocking it with other hero's, you still have to spend a extra movement which does slow you down. As far as your special rule I do not see the need, the game at higher levels really is challenging enough, and spawning and driven off should be left alone. Playtesting we all decided it was best to leave it this way. I would suggest playing this game for 3 or so campaigns all the way through before making judgements of the game or adjustments to the rules. Cheers!
Why would you have to spend an extra dice? You only have to stop your movement if you enter an empty space next to an enemy, so if you step on an friend, and then move diagonally away from the enemy you have never entered an empty space next to them and therefore don't need to pay an extra dice. Also, I've played up through the higher levels and found it a nice challenge with the house rules. The game does get tougher without them, but I find it much better with them. If you have found it fine without them, then that's great.
It's not trivial. First of all, without house rules the game is already easy, so you would proabably have to chuck in a lot more house rules to make it harder for the heroes. Then you have component issues - for example there aren't enough tokens or dice to track five heroes, and the entry and exit tiles aren't big enough for five heroes. Also, your order in each turn is determined by shuffling initiative cards, so you would have to make another initiative card, and unless you could make it so it looks exactly like all the others, you would have to make a completely new set of cards to avoid knowing when your fifth hero was going to activate.
It's been on my radar in the past, but it usually drops off again before I can make a concerted effort to find out more about it. It looks beautiful. I think it might be a bit fiddlier than I would normally go for, but that's not always a deal breaker for me as I love Mage Knight The Board Game.
Thank you for the explanation of your house rules, I’ll use these as well once I start playing. :-) I sent you a message via Facebook Messenger a day or two ago. You may not need the content I offered; if so no worries. I’m enjoying your Cursed City videos; that one about the 1/1 photos of all the minis in the rule book: very perceptive! There’s an article in the next issue of WD on Cursed City, but I’m sure you spotted that already on Warhammer Community.
Sorry, I did see the message, but I was run off my feet yesterday and completely forgot to respond. It's very kind of you, but it's not something I need. I did see that there are some notes from the developer regarding the heroes in the game in the next White Dwarf. I will be taking a look at it on the channel when my copy arrives.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I'll look forward to the next one; you're one of my favorite TH-camrs. No worries re: yesterday, hopefully you have a peaceful moment or two this weekend! :-)
@Dan Roberts Thanks. I do generally respond to emails (sometimes it takes a while, my head is like a sieve at the best of times, but I have sent you a response now!). Enjoy your weekend.
I think they should have noticed that in the beginning there is no pressure of any kind in the game. Perhaps they wanted that. It seems that GW dislike killing their darlings, and they generally want their heroes to be awesome, super powerful warriors.
First and foremost, good job dude. Obviously, the game itself needs some improvements, but I dislike the idea of changing a lot. Instead, like your quite neat and basic rule (which, by the way I,m going to implement for sure), I,ve been thinking about another simple way to increase the difficulty of the game, which is basically reducing the number of rounds to reach night time. This means hostiles will become stronger in a shorter period of time. What do you think?
Thanks. I'm not keen on major changes to the rules. I like to stick to a few minor tweaks at most. Reducing the number of day phases will up the pressure a little bit. It's worth noting, it's already possible for missions to start in the night phase, so you are facing empowered enemies from the very first turn.
I think the concern there will be the later levels. You may find it eventually becomes to much to deal with. It might be tough to spend gambit dice to get ahead of a vargskyr on the track only to kill it and immediately spawn Radukar at the same point in the track!
i would say the enemies spawn far away from you for their own protection, not yours. Imagine each player holding one dice as a reaction dice and then the moment the enemy spawns he gets massacred!
Not in my experience. It’s much easier to deal with enemies that are going to take several turns to get to you, and if you randomise the spawns you risk wasting dice by holding them back as reactions. My playthrough shows how much deadlier it is when they can potentially arrive on top of you.
Having played by the book, as well as with these house rules. I can confidently say that enemies spawning closer to you are, by far, more dangerous. Thing is, enemies that spawn far from you, you know they are coming and thus you prepare reaction dice for when they arrive. Meanwhile, like what OP said, with his houserule you can save up reaction dice ( And I have done this) in case they arrive in the lychgate close to you, only to have those reaction dice wasted and the enemies ended up ganking someone else. Your argument I think holds true if enemies always appear in the closest gate. But this randomizer effect makes you uncertain.
Great video. This game is sounding like more and more of a mess rules wise. Well and release wise too. 🤷🏼♂️. What are the chances of a reprint with a revised rulebook GW does it all the time w Necromunda. I'll stick with Blackstone Fortress for now.
Thanks. It's really not a mess. I hope I'm not making it seem that way. It's this one system for respawning enemies that, while working, just doesn't keep the pressure on and needs a tweak for difficulty. Despite a few other minor complaints (like the levelling up being a bit simple), I think the rest of the game is wonderful. The combat is improved over Blackstone Fortress, and it maintains the initiative and activation systems that worked so well. The new Deliverance missions are tense and exciting, the boss fights are fun, and you don't get the power creep that was evident in later Blackstone Fortress games. GW doesn't do revised reprints for games like this. Necromunda is one of their tabletop skirmish / war games so is treated a bit differently. They might publish an errata or FAQ; they have done that for previous Quest games. Silver Tower shipped with a broken rule that they quickly corrected in a rules patch.
You will always be against more than one set of bad guys. I've obviously simplified the example in the video for the purposes of illustrating the problem. When it can take three turns for a new spawn group to turn up, and then they spawn as far away as possible, the game doesn't put you under any pressure.
I agree with Christopher. It’s never that simple. Your simplified example is the problem. You assume too many things. Not everyone rolls perfectly. I find those breaks helpful to heal And sometimes I don’t succeed at healing
Great vid. Enjoying the way you explained everything
Thanks so much. Glad you liked the video.
I played my first three games yesterday and today.
Your house rules really helped.
It will take a while before I figure out exactly what I want, but you've pointed me in the right direction. Game doesn't seem to need a lot of tweaking.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you found the video useful. It's a really fun game; it's really just about finding the right balance for spawning. I found it far too slow, but a few people have said they were very happy with the rules out of the box.
The movement rule as written in the book where heroes can sort of float over other heroes who might be adjacent to enemies is how I have house ruled HeroQuest, Silver Tower and BSF. Glad to hear that I wasn't alone in thinking that way. How I justify it is that our ally is sort of keeping the enemy busy already in that particular space and allows the active hero to sneak through.
Love the CC videos! Keep 'em coming! I actually had this rule wrong as well at the beginning of BSF
Thanks for watching. Cursed City has consumed my thoughts for a few weeks now; so I might just have a short break from it unless anything major turns up that I need to report on.
The smallest corrections are always the best. Good job.
Im glad that Ive waited until I have my whole set painted to play it, it gives the community a chance to fix what the publishers did not. Rule tweaks are a pretty consistent thing in the WHQ games anyway.
I don't mind so much a few minor adjustments. I'm actually thinking of trying an alternative house rule set which does even less to change up the system - just playing against enemy groups that are one level higher and which spawn on random gates. That might be enough to create a challenging experience that's still fun and just a touch on the lighter side of gaming for people who don't want to feel like they are constantly bombarded with new threats. It also would completely bypass the level 0 spawn groups, which aren't very exciting (for example, Halgrim without his Ulfenwatch isn't really any kind of threat).
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring That would be a quick and dirty fix. Would you keep the final level of spawn the same, and chalk the hero's finally catching up with the enemy strength as a reward for getting characters to the final level? Or would you just sus out a few extra baddies of each type and make a final enemy tier? GW is going to release this new vamp army eventually, Im sure it wouldn't be hard to pick up 2 or 3 extra skeletons, bats, ect.
@@DustyLamp Well, I don't want to say too much about the end of the game, but if you look at the required level to defeat Radukar (and therefore win the campaign) it's level 4, not level 5. Probably the best way to play at level 5 would be to add level 5 and level 0 spawns together (although that's off the top of my head - I haven't checked if the numbers work out).
Thank you very much! I will implement the house rule when my copy of the game arrives!
Your version of Driven Off seems like a solid house rule. I might incorporate it right away once I get this on the table.
I don't mind house rules in my boardgames. As a teen I was into PC modding scene so the idea of tailoring a game to be more fitting for my personal preferences has always been a given.
Looking forward to your non-CC content in the coming weeks.
I grew up playing things like HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest, where you were basically just playing in the sand, doing whatever the heck you wanted. I think that's why I don't really think about tweaking GW games too much. It's burned into my personality!
Perfect timing! I'm about to play my second game tonight
I have taken to nixing the driven off rule entirely for more challenging play but am pre-level 4. Instead, I move the card to what would be 0 on the tracker ensuring they go first putting a bit of pressure on as I can't fathom undead things fleeing for survival in the spirit of the game. I've also disallowed inspiration points for those kills in the 0 space. Thus far, I've never had more than a single card sink that low on the tracker. Thoughts at later levels?
I can see the bats and rats running away (maybe to tell Torgillius there are powerful heroes here), and I assume you've weakened the zombies and skeletons in some way so they just collapse rather than running off. Someone else in the comments is doing something similar to you, with an overflow group to catch all enemies that are driven off. You may find it becomes very tough later on, but it depends on what other house rules you're using (if any). When I was testing the rules explained in this vide, games at level 3 and 4 were incredibly tough, and I was happy for the slightest break from something being driven off. But the only thing you can do is try it. I wouldn't deny heroes inspiration points, thouhgh. Once they are inspired and the card flips, they no longer get the bonus inspiration from their Path to Glory, so it becomes much harder to get the points anyway.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Refreshing to hear it becomes a much more difficult game. I look forward to the upcoming games. Cheers!
It's fun to tinker with the balance if you're finding it too easy or too hard. I'm always wary of rules that keep too many models on the board though, as the later spawn groups can be quite large and it might turn the game into a bit of a dice-flinging slog as you wade through endless hordes. I hope you manage to find a balance of rules you're happy with!
I think thematically the movement rule makes sense - an enemy isn't going to just let you run past them, however, if one of your team mates is already occupying their attention, you can run past.
Yes, I think it's a thematic rule - although it could be argued the other way that you shouldn't be able to just wander through the middle of a group of characters that are fighting. The official rule opens up movement a bit more; playing the other way is a bit more restrictive and I think adds some extra pressure so might be something people might want to consider if they find the game too easy.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring It could pave the way for some amusing character role playing:
"thanks for leaving me fight these rats by myself!"
"You look like you can handle it!"
With regards to the enemy spawning rule, does that only apply to the hunting/scavenge missions?
Not sure whey I'll be able to get a copy of this but I'm really enjoying the creative ideas and content for the game, must watch channel here! Cheers and looking forward to the next episode.
Thanks. I hope you have fun with the game when it arrives.
I like your quick advancement rules. I dislike playing campaign mode and this way makes me play whatever level I want while having appropriate treasure
Glad you found it helpful. The campaign can drag a little bit in Cursed City, as I think it makes you play some levels a bit too often just to keep the threat down, so it's nice to have a workaround sometimes.
I'm thinking that elite units like Kosargi and Vrykos vampires get the driven off attack as they leave while basic units don't.
I've also house ruled something else for it that makes night more punishing. at night when a group is driven off the remaining models on the board aren't removed, they just get added to a 5th group comprised of all leftover models (as groups can't be driven off while a unique enemy is on the board this 5th group can never contain unique enemies). this 5th group activates at the end of every turn after every other hero and group has taken their turns.
also I've formed a bit of a comprimise on the movement thing, I make it so that if you pass through a space containing another hero that is ajacent to a hostile then the moving hero can only move one more space and that move must leave it ajacent to the same hostile, that way the hostile is still able to hold up the whole group but the group's individual members are much less likely to get trapped in a room. using the example that you showed if Van Alten wanted to move through Jelsen's spot then he'd only be able to finish that move one square away from Jelsen *and* ajacent to the rat swarm
Interesting ideas. At the high levels, I think a fifth group would be a real challenge. I get my ass handed to my enough as it is! There are so many little tweaks back and forth that can be made. The core system makes it very easy.
I was trying to find any place in the rules where they consider a scenario in which an entire enemy group category is killed during a turn. Their driven off rules are nice for groups partially defeated but it almost feels like they forgot that it would be possible to kill three rats in a turn. Of course " a third or less" includes 0, but it seems a major oversight. Probably stuck between a rock and hard place with reinforcement rules.
In my first game I went backwards and forwards through the rules looking for anything to suggest you treat it differently, but it can only fall into the same rules as handling partial groups. Checking for driven off at the end of the turn has resolved it for me.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring had the same. Wouldve been great if it was just added.
I have not played the game yet, but watching your video i was wondering: would it be more more challenging if you reveal the card replacing the one that has been driven off, at the end of the turn instead of the next group activation? (so Gorslav would appear at the end of the turn in wich the rats are driven off, and do his mouvment at this point)
Did you mention that Gorslav can bury you alive?
It's an interesting idea, but there are a few issues. I think it would actually be challenging to a severe degree. If you kill all four groups at once, you would suddenly get four back-to-back adversary activations at the end of the turn. That's quite a disruption to the standard flow of play, and is also a lot of extra enemy activations to deal with without having the chance to play gambits and reconfigure the flow of play to your advantage. The heroes are basically having to deal with eight adversary groups in one turn. Furthermore, you're giving each adversary group an extra free activation, which is going to be incredibly tough to deal with as they will close the distance rapidly and heroes will find they get bogged down, constantly just rolling dice against a never-ending onslaught. You really need small breaks in the waves to allow for movement and repositioning of the team. Also, in later levels, when you have bosses running around the board as standard things are already tough. I think this would tip the balance too far. But of course, it's a balancing act. Give it a try and see what you think.
I'm currently playing with your random enemy spawning household rule and it works really well. Just one thing. You say when an enemy activates for the first time its action must be a advance action. I can''t seem to find it anywere in the rulebook. Where did you read that rule?
Not when an enemy activates for the first time, but when an enemy is deployed as a reinforcement. It's point 5 under Deploying Reinforcements on page 31 of the rules.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Understood, thank you for your quick response!
I purchased Cursed City a week ago. I’ve played many many hours of Blackstone Fortress and really enjoyed it (especially the Escalation expansion that brought some more narrative in).
I’m considering purchasing the first two Quest games (Silver Tower and Shadows over Hammerhal). Since they’re quite expensive I’d like to know if it’s worth it or will it be kind of „going back“ in rules and quality, since I’ve played the two newer ones? Will I „gain“ something besides making the collection whole (for many euros I can spend elsewhere)?
I've talked about Silver Tower and Shadows Over Hammerhall extensively on the channel. I would recommend checking out my full reviews of them as they all do different things and they all have shortcomings. Shadows Over Hammerhall requires a dungeon master and is one single highly narrative adventure in a sprawling dungeon, while Silver Tower feels like a group storytelling game with a unique setting and lots of unusual events. As they are both out of print and expensive, I definitely wouldn't suggest anyone buy them without making sure they are going to enjoy them, which is why you might want to look at some of the other videos I have made about them (as well as checking out the views from other content creators).
Finally got my hands on CC. My wife and I need to finish Ascension, so I have started painting and hope I can get all those glorious models painted up before we try to rescue Ulfrnkarn.
That’s good to hear. I hope you have fun with it.
RAW, you must stop when entering into an enemy´s adjacent square only when you perform a WALK (1+) action. If you RUN (3+) you are not affected by that rule, the handbook specifically refers to WALK and does not mention RUN. Am i right?
No. The rules specifically state "Run: When a hero makes this action, they make a MOVE action following the rules above, but can move a number of spaces equal to the second number of the Move value on their character card." So, regardless of whether you Move or Run, it's still a Move action and you still have to stop when you move adjacent to an enemy.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thank you !! I had skipped that one. I am starting with this game now, i will of course try your little tweaks which seem to improve the game a lot. Thanks !!
No worries. I hope you have a lot of fun with the game.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Just one last question: If a decimated enemy unit is going to be activated anyway... why waiting until the event phase to check if it´s driven off, and not doing it just right after the activation? It would be something between the RAW (weapon action and removed) and yours (behaviour activation and stays until events phase).
ther is some new content on BBG from Peter Cooper
Isn’t it fewer than a third to see if a hostile group is driven off?
"A third or fewer."
I've seen an interesting thread on BGG from Peter Cooper that I would love your thoughts on. He has even created modified hostile cards as well as already come up with an expansion using the underworld beastgrave grymwatch. I don't know how well his "fixes" scale, but it definitely looks like it is worth a look.
I haven't checked them out yet, and I don't personally enjoy modifying a game to the point where you're rewriting that level of content. I don't give my impressions of other people's house rules; he's going to have put a lot of effort into that which is awesome. Best thing to do is give them a whirl and see what you think of them.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I can definitely understand that. Thank you for the reply. I'll probably start with the most minimal house rule similar to yours and see how it goes from there.
@@bartonalfredstone No worries. House rules are all about making a game into the game you want it to be, so there's no right or wrong way to do it. It's all about being happy with the game you've bought. Peter's an incredibly creative person, with a very strong idea of what he wants out of his Quest games.
1st game. FIRST spawn, wife says: can we not roll for which gate they spawn out of instead?
It plays much better that way, and considering they use that approach in the boss fights, I have no idea why they felt the need for it to be different in the other game modes.
I have always said that you're a brilliant tutor and it's my brain thats slow when I don't understand something within how a game is played. So young man, side tracking slightly, can you give me an example please of what would make me decide which of the 3 journeys I would need to take to be of benefit to me as I head up through the levels. I understand that there is obviously 3 to choose from and what each ones benefits are, but I can't get my head around which one would be best to pick to help me keep the fear and intelligence in my favour.
Surely it can't just be me that's scratching my brain on tis one, or is it.
Many thanks and much appreciated,
So, at the start of the game Fear (F) is at 5 and Influence (I) is at 6. This is to encourage you to start the game with a Hunt, which will leave you at (assuming you win) F6, I4. The idea being, you then play a Deliverance mission to decrease Fear, at the cost of a little Influence increase, leaving you at F4, I5. However, I would recommend starting the campaign with a Scavenge. It's the best way to build characters, gives you loads of items and realmstones (hint: take the Karadron Overlord as he can carry more items, and remember that realmstones aren't items and you can carry as much as you want), and it gives you a quick boost early in the game to make subsequent missions easier, the downside is you gain one Fear and one Influence, but you'll be much stronger when you go on journeys to bring those values back down.
After your Scavenge mission, do a Hunt, and then a Deliverance mission. At that point, your team is at Level 1, you've boosted them with items and upgrades, and controlled Fear and Influence. You can then do that cycle again, or you can tackle the first boss - it's better to tackle the boss because you can't progress beyond Level 1 until you do. Also, note that if you win a Boss fight, neither Fear nor Influence increases.
After the first boss, make sure you Scavenge again - you might find you can do it a few times before you feel the need to do a Hunt or a Deliverance mission. The more you scavenge, the better positioned you will be. After three missions you will be at Level 2 and ready to take on the next two bosses (note they are the same level - you can face them back to back, and as long as you win you suffer no penalty). And so on.
Usually, it ends up being one of each mission to level up, then one or two boss fights. Repeat. Sometimes a crisis can cause problems and increase one of the values, forcing you to do a different type of mission, but you'll know when that happens. As long as you don't let any one level get to high (you lose if either reaches 10) it's not too hard to figure out what's going to be the best move for your team at any one point.
Oh, and remember that at some point, you can probably stop scavenging. Each hero can only have one item and two upgrades, so there's no point scavenging unless there's something really powerful you are trying to get.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring OMG this brilliant reply is incredibly appreciated, I really am very grateful for your time that it's taken.
I'm going to have a couple of reads through this to let it all sink in and start putting it into practice tomorrow, or should I say later today,
Once again, many thanks for your time, I'm extremely grateful,
@@Bassmunchkin1 You're welcome. I'm by no means a strategy expert or anything, but I hope it helps. I feel you can't go wrong with some early game boosts on your characters. Just remember that a permanent character death can throw a spanner in the works, but you can fast-track their XP gain by sending them on missions with stronger heroes.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yep thanks for the reminder and I've now got all your brilliant help ready, as I'm going to start all over again (I only reached level 1 and 3 models were out of action), so I'll be following your valued advice, especially using the Karadron Overlord.
Once again much appreciated
I have played driven off wrong, i guess... I took it as "if all enemies are defeated, they are driven off instantly and replaced by face down card". It was faster and harder, now im not sure i want to play it by the book.
Is anyone able to answer this on the reaction rule:
Can a hero make a reaction attack triggered by the movement of a hostile which was not visible to the hero when it began its move, but became visible at the end of its move?
And can a single hostile trigger multiple reaction attacks by a single hero in the same turn? ie. one reaction attack when the hostile deploys, then another when the hostile has moved, and one more once the hostile has attacked?
l'm trying to read the rule as mechanically as I can but still come up with more than one interpretation >_
Of course. The point of a reaction is to be able to attack those enemies that you couldn't attack during your activation, and that's commonly because you couldn't see them. As per the rules - "make a weapon action when a hostile that is visible to the hero finishes a move action..." Whether a hostile is visible or not may change during its activation, but if it's visible when it finishes the move, you can attack it. If it was visible, but then moved so it's not visible when it finishes the move, then you can't attack it.
Also, the rules clearly state you can make reaction attacks when an enemy is deployed, so of course those enemies wouldn't have been visible before because they weren't on the board!
Finally, the rules state each hero can make one reaction per trigger, so it's fine to make multiple reactions against the same enemy, one after each triggering event.
One thing, the move over a hero when adjacent to a enemy it is allowed because the space is occupied by a hero but you still must spend a extra move to move away from the enemy I do not think you were clear on that. So while you can move around encounters by blocking it with other hero's, you still have to spend a extra movement which does slow you down. As far as your special rule I do not see the need, the game at higher levels really is challenging enough, and spawning and driven off should be left alone. Playtesting we all decided it was best to leave it this way. I would suggest playing this game for 3 or so campaigns all the way through before making judgements of the game or adjustments to the rules. Cheers!
Why would you have to spend an extra dice? You only have to stop your movement if you enter an empty space next to an enemy, so if you step on an friend, and then move diagonally away from the enemy you have never entered an empty space next to them and therefore don't need to pay an extra dice. Also, I've played up through the higher levels and found it a nice challenge with the house rules. The game does get tougher without them, but I find it much better with them. If you have found it fine without them, then that's great.
Do you think it would be hard to modify to run with 5 players? I don't want one player just running the enemies
It's not trivial. First of all, without house rules the game is already easy, so you would proabably have to chuck in a lot more house rules to make it harder for the heroes. Then you have component issues - for example there aren't enough tokens or dice to track five heroes, and the entry and exit tiles aren't big enough for five heroes. Also, your order in each turn is determined by shuffling initiative cards, so you would have to make another initiative card, and unless you could make it so it looks exactly like all the others, you would have to make a completely new set of cards to avoid knowing when your fifth hero was going to activate.
Cloudspire is (imo), the best solo game. Have you played it?
It's been on my radar in the past, but it usually drops off again before I can make a concerted effort to find out more about it. It looks beautiful. I think it might be a bit fiddlier than I would normally go for, but that's not always a deal breaker for me as I love Mage Knight The Board Game.
As I have played both, I far prefer Cloudspire over Mage Knight.
Thank you for the explanation of your house rules, I’ll use these as well once I start playing. :-) I sent you a message via Facebook Messenger a day or two ago. You may not need the content I offered; if so no worries. I’m enjoying your Cursed City videos; that one about the 1/1 photos of all the minis in the rule book: very perceptive! There’s an article in the next issue of WD on Cursed City, but I’m sure you spotted that already on Warhammer Community.
Sorry, I did see the message, but I was run off my feet yesterday and completely forgot to respond. It's very kind of you, but it's not something I need. I did see that there are some notes from the developer regarding the heroes in the game in the next White Dwarf. I will be taking a look at it on the channel when my copy arrives.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I'll look forward to the next one; you're one of my favorite TH-camrs. No worries re: yesterday, hopefully you have a peaceful moment or two this weekend! :-)
@Dan Roberts Thanks. I do generally respond to emails (sometimes it takes a while, my head is like a sieve at the best of times, but I have sent you a response now!). Enjoy your weekend.
Schrödingers Game - does it even exist when released.
Good straightforward house rules that add a lot of options ... one wonders about GW's play testing.
I think they should have noticed that in the beginning there is no pressure of any kind in the game. Perhaps they wanted that. It seems that GW dislike killing their darlings, and they generally want their heroes to be awesome, super powerful warriors.
First and foremost, good job dude.
Obviously, the game itself needs some improvements, but I dislike the idea of changing a lot. Instead, like your quite neat and basic rule (which, by the way I,m going to implement for sure), I,ve been thinking about another simple way to increase the difficulty of the game, which is basically reducing the number of rounds to reach night time. This means hostiles will become stronger in a shorter period of time. What do you think?
Thanks. I'm not keen on major changes to the rules. I like to stick to a few minor tweaks at most. Reducing the number of day phases will up the pressure a little bit. It's worth noting, it's already possible for missions to start in the night phase, so you are facing empowered enemies from the very first turn.
I just put a new encounter face down when the last bad guy dies, regardless of play order
I think the concern there will be the later levels. You may find it eventually becomes to much to deal with. It might be tough to spend gambit dice to get ahead of a vargskyr on the track only to kill it and immediately spawn Radukar at the same point in the track!
i would say the enemies spawn far away from you for their own protection, not yours. Imagine each player holding one dice as a reaction dice and then the moment the enemy spawns he gets massacred!
Not in my experience. It’s much easier to deal with enemies that are going to take several turns to get to you, and if you randomise the spawns you risk wasting dice by holding them back as reactions. My playthrough shows how much deadlier it is when they can potentially arrive on top of you.
Having played by the book, as well as with these house rules. I can confidently say that enemies spawning closer to you are, by far, more dangerous. Thing is, enemies that spawn far from you, you know they are coming and thus you prepare reaction dice for when they arrive. Meanwhile, like what OP said, with his houserule you can save up reaction dice ( And I have done this) in case they arrive in the lychgate close to you, only to have those reaction dice wasted and the enemies ended up ganking someone else.
Your argument I think holds true if enemies always appear in the closest gate. But this randomizer effect makes you uncertain.
Great video. This game is sounding like more and more of a mess rules wise. Well and release wise too. 🤷🏼♂️. What are the chances of a reprint with a revised rulebook GW does it all the time w Necromunda. I'll stick with Blackstone Fortress for now.
Thanks. It's really not a mess. I hope I'm not making it seem that way. It's this one system for respawning enemies that, while working, just doesn't keep the pressure on and needs a tweak for difficulty. Despite a few other minor complaints (like the levelling up being a bit simple), I think the rest of the game is wonderful. The combat is improved over Blackstone Fortress, and it maintains the initiative and activation systems that worked so well. The new Deliverance missions are tense and exciting, the boss fights are fun, and you don't get the power creep that was evident in later Blackstone Fortress games.
GW doesn't do revised reprints for games like this. Necromunda is one of their tabletop skirmish / war games so is treated a bit differently. They might publish an errata or FAQ; they have done that for previous Quest games. Silver Tower shipped with a broken rule that they quickly corrected in a rules patch.
It isn't that simple though. When are you ever just against one set of bad guys?
You will always be against more than one set of bad guys. I've obviously simplified the example in the video for the purposes of illustrating the problem. When it can take three turns for a new spawn group to turn up, and then they spawn as far away as possible, the game doesn't put you under any pressure.
I agree with Christopher. It’s never that simple. Your simplified example is the problem.
You assume too many things. Not everyone rolls perfectly. I find those breaks helpful to heal And sometimes I don’t succeed at healing
Lmaoooo I’ve been play the game
On hard mode
thats not really challenging though