I find this a fair assessment of the Fantom if you've mainly used it like you did on the video, i.e. mostly playing preset sounds. I also own a Fantom, and find that many presets don't sound too fresh on their own and need some work. Luckily the workflow for this work is great; it's only when you get to editing/creating/layering synth sounds when the power of the engines and the UI starts to shine. Once you delve there, you also get a better understanding on what eats polyphony, and can easily avoid most of the polyphony-hogging that's happening with some presets. I've understood that it's a bit of the opposite with some other boards; their presets are great and instantly more useable than Fantom's, but once you want to get under the hood, you'll have a harder time with editing. So choosing the right tool really depends on what you need to do!
Perfectamente explicado...es así completamente, no obstante ahora hay una expansión (la -Ex) que es muy a tener en cuenta, pues ofrece un buen piano de preset (al fin) y unas potentes herramientas de edición para crear sonidos sintéticos increíbles, muy difíciles de crear con otros sintetizadores (y lo dice alguien que tiene 2 kurzweils...;) Yo creo que voy a comprar la expansión -EX para mi Fantom...
Very nice & honest review. I was getting a very good price for Roland RD2000 & Fantom. I have tried both but like you said Fantom sounds are not so impressive very very old and an ordinary, especially acoustic instruments voices. Actually they don’t inspire like Kronos2 & Montage. What I like about the Fantom is a built quality and especially key action, PHA50 is amazing action, Love the look and layout and design of Fantom. Synth section is good but it still sounds digital all this experience made me confused so finally I bought the RD2000 because the price difference was huge. I played a Roland Jupiter80 that was a mind blowing sounding keyboard.Now days vst is very much ahead and affordable so considering that company like Roland they have to keep this things in my mind if they wants to sell such expensive workstation. I think Roland is going down is synth & workstation section. Frankly speaking I don’t much prefer to buy flagship workstation of any brands. I prefer VSTI and I don’t think so these companies will touch to vst. Yamaha & Korg is also offering also almost same sounds. Montage is also new bottle and old wine because I have played Yamaha EX5R that has everything and Korg Trinity to Oyasis still the sounds are same nothing new. I think future for workstation Is dyeing. Main thing is sounds which connects immediately and generate the musical idea. Fantom8 I was getting for $2,800 but still I choose the RD2000. Thanks!
i always say alot of times roland PCM sounds like a 90s anime soundtrack . I own a fantom 7 also and its no exception , but i still love it . I love the cheese factor
That might be because they've carried over all the JV-1080 tones and patches (from 1994) into those Fantom keyboards. The sounds that are not purely based on PCM tones (in particular the Zen-Core synths and the V-Piano engine) are probably as current as anything else.
@@JeremyRobberechts i actually sold my fantom . They are lightyears behind nord and yamaha in terms of pianos and electric pianos ( the organ on the fantom i liked alot). For the 90s vibe i held on to my roland sound canvas and my yamaha mu128 :)
I'm curious if anyone is using the Fantom (I just picked up an 07) alongside a master controller keyboard? There doesn't appear to much about it online but I'm finding that the Scenes don't operate the way they are programmed over MIDI. Keyboard splits, layers and mutes etc aren't recognised. If you setup a split/layer it plays fine on the Fantom but over MIDI it plays ALL the sounds ALL over the keyboard. Similarly the onboard transpose isn't reflected if played from a MIDI controller! So you have to transpose both the Fantom and the Controller, or dive into the System settings to transpose globally which of course affects every program. I mean, how long have Roland been making keyboards for now??
Exact reason I ditched mine Leigh. I use mine live and have expectations and the polyphony was crap. Inexcusable. I also get tired of everybody chiming in do this do that and it helps some etc.... . I freaking shouldn't have to. I paid a ton for an instrument that should work. Kronos is still king for me. I was also very disappointed that I couldn't get good dedicated sound libraries for the Fantom that were not based on the 100 year old SRX stuff. Done with Roland for good.
The polyphony is important to me beginning I use the fantom in my church. If you use a single tone mode and play strings, you still loose polyphony. That’s the only drawback for this board
@@LeighWilbraham it’s important because you want to hear every note that you play or trigger.. limited polyphony will cut out notes that you play and jerk the song
Some of the decisions on this keyboard are indefensible. Roland fanboys are out in force in this comment section. U have drop outs with a drum track, a bass model and a model poly synth with conservative voicing. Even playing the rhythm patterns can drop out and restart. It can get pretty ridiculous. One of my gripes is that you quickly run out of effects options. The MPC platform must be of similar power under the hood and is so more refined and always evolving not just going for the big bucks. This synth mainly sells to users on Facebook with dogs as their profile pictures.
No one hardware instrument does it all for all genres of music whether live or studio. Sort of the endless search for the holy grail. That's why the computer will never be replaced. I have almost every vst instrument and effects processor that does anything cool, but the cost is crazy. I pity the violinist wanting their violin to sound like a french horn.
Sadly, I have to agree with your review. I recently purchased one of these at a local music store, and I returned it within the week. It's not that I wouldn't have been able to get a lot out of it by working with the presets, but it seems like the sound sets keep getting recycled from decades ago. In my opinion, a workstation that costs this much should give you sounds that are competitive with what you get for a laptop, a MIDI controller, and some VSTs (which would cost less overall than the Fantom), but that's not at all what I was hearing through my headphones. It's sad to see, especially since I loved my Fantom X back in the day.
It looks and sounds fantastic, but if it's not performing as you need it, then it's time to let go. I firmly believe these instruments aren't really meant to be used alone in large 'multitimbral' performances, despite being marketed as an 'all in one' workstation. Perhaps some of the patches used in these performances have limited polyphony by design, in keeping with their analog or early digital counterparts. Perhaps they intend users to print to audio, instead of staying in the MIDI domain? Whatever the reasons, if it's not doing what you need ... Time to let someone else enjoy it. ;)
For me, the polyphony is not an issue. But the sounds strike me as amazing…and there’s so much you can do to change your sounds. I am a gear geek, and also own the Kronos 2 and the Montage…all are stellar pieces (with amazing sounds). One thing I will say about the build quality…it’s incredible (as is the Montage). A great tool in the right hands.
I watched this video with much trepidation, as I spent the weekend deciding to get a Fantom 8. Your argument is interesting, and I understand polyphony frustrations. I'm not sure I'm persuaded tho. I already own an FA-08, and I've yet to bump into polyphony issues. That doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means that for the way I approach sound and music making, it hasn't been an issue - and if it popped up as an issue, it would be infrequent enough that I could work around it. I love both Yamaha and Roland for the rich musical legacy they represent, as well as the quality of their products, in different ways. The great thing about keyboards now is that you can choose from several incredible manufacturers, all with amazing products that have both strengths and weaknesses of their own. For me, I went from owning two Yamaha MOXF keyboards to having four Roland boards in the course of 10 years. But that's the way my instincts and my research have taken me over time, and in another 10 years my studio (If I last that long!) could be filled with Yamaha again, or Moog, (if THEY last that long) or some other unknown manufacturer. The choices we have are amazing, and our journeys are our own.
I like what you are saying. I find the Fantom easier to navigate in comparison to my Montage. I can live with the Fantom as I have had a couple of them. I have always enjoyed the Roland products and I think it just comes down to personal choice.
Personal Choice... I think not this Time.. This thing sounds so bad.... That personal Choice is out of discussion here.... Maybe The Fantom G vs The Montage is a good one for this principle Foe every 30 sounds there is only 1 good one on the FANTOM O or FANTOM
I own the Fantom 8 and this "polyphony" issue has been there since day one and you really have to be doing some ABSURD layering to run into it. The synth does just fine with up to 6 layers which is still kinda absurd for a tone. But you are right, the Roland Fantom is darn there unrivaled when it comes to the sheer beauty of its tones.
and keep in mind Montage uses the sampling methods for their tones like their famous Piano sound and Fantom uses the Physical Modeling for their pianos....2 different things
It's strange, I heard many complaints about this problem and that prevented me from buying this keyboard, but I found a great deal on it and I pulled the trigger. So far I have not had any issues with polyphony and I have tried up to 8 layers which is much more than I think it's necessary for a single patch. I really love the new V-piano and JD800 extension. This is so far the best synth I have bought in the last 5 years. In sequencer mode I have yet to come across the polyphony problem, so far it's been a flawless machine. I got the 61 version, I'm saving to buy the 88...it's that good.
@@LeighWilbraham Thank you…. my answer is not to defend Roland in any way, it’s just that, for instance, I’ve heard people running out of polyphony using piano and strings, I I guess how can that be… because if you use any V-piano (unlimited polyphony) plus two strings sounds of up to 4 partials each (most strings are only two partials) it means that you have to play 32 keys simultaneously tu run out of polyphony, and we have ten fingers… if you press ten keys of these sounds and hold them on, you still have ten more keys using up to 8 partial each to run out of one note. What I do sometimes no to save polyphony, but to simplify my workflow is that I create a very complex patch of up to 5 or 6 zones and then I sample it internally (you can sample your own patch very easily) and those 6 zones (the patch created) uses only one partial (one voice) and a single zone. So that a complex sound that was using up to 20-24 voices at any given key press, now it’s down to only one.
@@borispradel1037 you guys only focusing on the polyphony claims That's only one aspect of the whole drama. Have you really listen to the brasses and saxes and Guitars??? That's NOT Roland.... I can tell you I have had Only Roland coming from the Juno 106 till the Fantom G and the INTEGRA Power USER here.... And I can tell you ( side by side / bit by bit comparison) This FANTOM is NOT Roland..,.. If you never had a keyboard before Or if you had a Casio form 1990 And you Jump right into the Fantom It will be a great Key Untill you make a step back 10 years earlier with The Roland FA or even the Fantom X. It's NOT the technic which is briljant... It's the sound of this thing.... For your information At this moment I bought 2 Roland GO Keys 5 These are really lovely ... And yes THIS IS ROLAND ( character) But the Fantom??? 🤔
I’ve got the baby Fantom (F-06), and I read a lot of posts and saw YT vids about the polyphony issue. There’s a huge difference between the flagship and O series too. I’ve been creating multi-layered scenes on my 06, and I’m not running out of poly. I will say that Roland’s tones, especially their PCM tones have IMO always been poly heavy. A Roland PCM tone using just 3 of the four partials can eat up 9 notes of poly with a single 3 note chord because often each partial is using 2 notes. Throw a sustain pedal on that and poly takes another big hit. Roland has been taking heat for their poly allocation for several decades now. It was worse when the standard poly for a workstation was 64 notes.
@@valuemastery It’s actually 18 notes poly per 3 note chord. If the tone is actively using 3 of the four partials, and each partial uses 2 notes.., that would mean each key press is using 6 notes of poly. Play a 3 note chord with that tone and you’re using 18 notes. 6x3=18 notes. Start stacking those types of tones in a custom scene, throw in the sustain pedal, and that poly limit drops pretty fast. It would be 9 notes per key press if each partial used 3 notes.
I had similar thoughts, but not because of polyphonie running out, but the sound at all. But i guess i‘ll keep it. Bought second hand for 2,3 k€. Waiting for the Montage 6M to meet the Genos 2 then. So 3 sets: Genos2/Montage 61M. /. Korg PA5x plus Fantom 7. and the. Ketron Event / Nord stage 4. Lucky me 🥳
Thank you for your informative video.Lack of good polyphony cuz of using not powerfull processor custom built with Roland and second reason sound engine of acoustic instrument is old from 2000 like integra 7. 😂
I own both the montage 7 and fantom 8, I feel Roland could have done more for a flagship, the board is very capable but a few issues let it down IMO, and dnt get me started when it comes to updates, please dnt! 😂
@brendanm.9946 probably the montage, it's not a workstation and doesn't have an organ engine, but it's a well rounded product for my requirements, and it sounds great!!
Hi Leigh. The factory will never build perfect products, because they have to continue to make profit! And the area is still no perfect one even in 21st century. Any brands has own mimeses, Korg, Yamaha and so on. Particularly for Fantom is I would ad external sound module for richness of sounds and number of sines .
Thank you very much for this detailed analysis. All those outdated samples that you showed are not the right benchmark, there are many better examples that you didn't show, and they all sound totally different in the band and on big loudspeakers and stages. They sound present and much more realistic. Unfortunately, Montage is far behind Fantom in terms of sound. Montage cannot break through frequently because of the converters and mostly sound engineers have problems. Converters on Roland have been much better quality than Yamaha's in recent years (All after ES Motif). This is still your subjective attitude of playing in room conditions. Fantom is much more than a simple Multisample Player. For me Roland is currently much more innovative than both Yamaha and Korg. It's not all about PCM samples.😊
@@LeighWilbraham Gladly, as soon as there is an opportunity and a good example. But what I'm talking about is only known to musicians who use Fantom for that purpose. You probably use more in the studio and in that case I absolutely agree with you, because I also come across quite a lot of uninspiring patches without dynamics and which do not follow the current trends in multisampling.
Thanks. This is so important for me, as a person who is on look out for something like this. Ive been looking for the Montage M8x myself. Looking forward to see what you think about the montage m-series. The Genos 2 is also coming about next week. One question, what is the reason you choose the 73-key version?
It’s 76 key, not 73, and I think it’s fair to say that most people who buy that version do so because it’s a good middle ground, offering more octaves-per-buck in a package that’s not too large, not too heavy, and perhaps most importantly, doesn’t have weighted keys. For me, most of the time, 61 keys is plenty, but i never need 88 and certainly don’t like graded hammer actions keys. So, keyboards like this fill that gap without breaking the bank if you’re already in the market for such a device.
I read about polyphony all the time, and in Roland Fa 08, I have almost no problems with it. I record 16 tracks, adding only reverb, sometimes chorus. A different instrument on each track, drums on 2-6 tracks (I often outsource the drums to someone), bass, strings, a few synth sounds, sometimes arp (one) and I almost never ran out of polyphony. Of course, if I made one sound out of 5 rich other sounds, it would probably be missing. For my needs: composing 16 tracks and exporting to a pendrive or computer, will Fantom 8 or 7 be enough?
Im newbiie on Fantom and may sound odd but imo it is an instrument not only restricted to the thousands as aforementioned. The chance to bring in samples and so many other features are supposed to be updated. We are notin the 80s any longer. Just like you I did have ROlands since then but it is time to get going otherwise we would be stucked on a harpishchord. Yeap many sounds are not realistic and they are not supposed to but you are free to create or buy the proper samples to play real All in all, instruments...Ony distubring issue is the voice..but using a lot of ambience with a good gear it is solved out..WIsh Roland could grant me for standing here saying YES ROLAND GO GO! Thanks for your video. NB, Just got my Fantom 7. All in all it is never possible to please everyone. Looking for new sounds I go for the VSTs and some unknown hardaware that bring you really either real or spaced out sounds. Life it is what it is ..nothing will please everyone.
Roland has a quite interesting Tine Electric Piano sound. This sound can be found only with Roland synth. The korg KromeEX has some few Tine EP which are quite close. But Yamaha MODX+ and PSR-SX700 Tine EP are not even close.
Roland has always had polyphony issue!!! I just finally got my Fantom after selling my G6 last year!!! I hope with this new big update that the next update they will listen and fix this!!!
I agree with everything to say Leigh, I have a Fantom 7 and will be PX'ing for a Genos 2 next week, I also have the M8x and its so much better in every way, even my Nautilus has a fresher sound pallet, the real kicker for me is the latest upgrade for the Fantom, £202 and I have already paid £149 for N-ZYME, there is talk of a code for existing users but not really the best way to hold your customers, I will miss it though with its 8000 presets (100+ zencore packs installed)... Great Video...
I must say I miss more velocity layers in the Ep’s and piano section , it’s absolutely not good enough in 2023 and the haven’t developed in this area for ages , when I am used to spectrasonics keyscabe it’s hard to play those old samples with no life when playing hard velocities. But as a midi controller this board is maybe the best out there 😊
I remember when I owned the Kronos and the montage some of the sounds were really impressive but I didn’t like the keybed. Roland has my favorite 88 keybed by far but the sound is lackluster. My biggest complaint for them all is the learning curve. I wish they had editors for a computer so it was set up like a vst. I never stand over the instrument enough to get used to the insane workflows.
Hah hah, you can add MC-101 for another 4 parts and 128 voice polyphony and additional stereo outputs for 450 usd or less (if you buy used) for a truly killer setup.
Just get a good midi controller keyboard and Omnisphere. All hardware synths are outdated and a thing of the past. People hate when you say it, but everything is better in software now. Stop wasting money on ultra expensive synth and workstation keyboards. It's about the sound. All these hardware synths today are way too over the top expensive. Roland needs to make a keyboard controller like this build and call it a day. I'll NEVER buy another hardware synth again.
Here we go again… It might suit you, but it doesn’t suit everyone. For a start you need a computer, controller, and then Omnisphere…not cheap, and then you have to deal with computer stability, and the lack of dedicated physical controls. Some people work at a computer all day and don’t want to sit at one to create music. Besides, what do you think a hardware synth is - basically a controller with software built in. This constant comparison and saying one format is better than the other is pathetic.
@@X22GJP Yeah? It IS CHEAPER than a Fantom. Keep the lies you keep telling yourself bankrupt you because you have a gear addiction. Your the pathetic one.
I actually agree with you. But then I own the Waldorf Quantum, Fantom, Summit, Waldorf M, and a lot of expensive synths came and went. And is there anything an expensive synthesizer can do that my many plugins can´t do? And my HW equalizers? But the thing is, I start creating, twisting knobs, playing, accidents, linkin software synths to hardware, and then I produce, get inspired....
I'm an old guy young boomer I'm a serious composer/jazz pianist I once had a motif es 6 but I was amazed how much work I was able to accomplish by using it to model compositions. But in the actual computer world I'm a monkey flying an airplane trying to integrate midi controller with a myriad of software applications and get it recorded so it's useful.
I find this a fair assessment of the Fantom if you've mainly used it like you did on the video, i.e. mostly playing preset sounds. I also own a Fantom, and find that many presets don't sound too fresh on their own and need some work. Luckily the workflow for this work is great; it's only when you get to editing/creating/layering synth sounds when the power of the engines and the UI starts to shine. Once you delve there, you also get a better understanding on what eats polyphony, and can easily avoid most of the polyphony-hogging that's happening with some presets.
I've understood that it's a bit of the opposite with some other boards; their presets are great and instantly more useable than Fantom's, but once you want to get under the hood, you'll have a harder time with editing. So choosing the right tool really depends on what you need to do!
True
Perfectamente explicado...es así completamente, no obstante ahora hay una expansión (la -Ex) que es muy a tener en cuenta, pues ofrece un buen piano de preset (al fin) y unas potentes herramientas de edición para crear sonidos sintéticos increíbles, muy difíciles de crear con otros sintetizadores (y lo dice alguien que tiene 2 kurzweils...;) Yo creo que voy a comprar la expansión -EX para mi Fantom...
Very nice & honest review. I was getting a very good price for Roland RD2000 & Fantom. I have tried both but like you said Fantom sounds are not so impressive very very old and an ordinary, especially acoustic instruments voices. Actually they don’t inspire like Kronos2 & Montage. What I like about the Fantom is a built quality and especially key action, PHA50 is amazing action, Love the look and layout and design of Fantom. Synth section is good but it still sounds digital all this experience made me confused so finally I bought the RD2000 because the price difference was huge. I played a Roland Jupiter80 that was a mind blowing sounding keyboard.Now days vst is very much ahead and affordable so considering that company like Roland they have to keep this things in my mind if they wants to sell such expensive workstation. I think Roland is going down is synth & workstation section. Frankly speaking I don’t much prefer to buy flagship workstation of any brands. I prefer VSTI and I don’t think so these companies will touch to vst. Yamaha & Korg is also offering also almost same sounds. Montage is also new bottle and old wine because I have played Yamaha EX5R that has everything and Korg Trinity to Oyasis still the sounds are same nothing new. I think future for workstation Is dyeing. Main thing is sounds which connects immediately and generate the musical idea. Fantom8 I was getting for $2,800 but still I choose the RD2000.
Thanks!
Don’t understand this decision. Only because of polyphony? I don’t think I will ever get rid of my F8❤
i always say alot of times roland PCM sounds like a 90s anime soundtrack . I own a fantom 7 also and its no exception , but i still love it . I love the cheese factor
That might be because they've carried over all the JV-1080 tones and patches (from 1994) into those Fantom keyboards. The sounds that are not purely based on PCM tones (in particular the Zen-Core synths and the V-Piano engine) are probably as current as anything else.
@@JeremyRobberechts i actually sold my fantom . They are lightyears behind nord and yamaha in terms of pianos and electric pianos ( the organ on the fantom i liked alot). For the 90s vibe i held on to my roland sound canvas and my yamaha mu128 :)
Exact my thoughts. Roland is stuck in 80’s in terms of sounds and „logic” of the interface.
I'm curious if anyone is using the Fantom (I just picked up an 07) alongside a master controller keyboard? There doesn't appear to much about it online but I'm finding that the Scenes don't operate the way they are programmed over MIDI. Keyboard splits, layers and mutes etc aren't recognised. If you setup a split/layer it plays fine on the Fantom but over MIDI it plays ALL the sounds ALL over the keyboard. Similarly the onboard transpose isn't reflected if played from a MIDI controller! So you have to transpose both the Fantom and the Controller, or dive into the System settings to transpose globally which of course affects every program. I mean, how long have Roland been making keyboards for now??
Exact reason I ditched mine Leigh. I use mine live and have expectations and the polyphony was crap. Inexcusable. I also get tired of everybody chiming in do this do that and it helps some etc.... . I freaking shouldn't have to. I paid a ton for an instrument that should work. Kronos is still king for me. I was also very disappointed that I couldn't get good dedicated sound libraries for the Fantom that were not based on the 100 year old SRX stuff. Done with Roland for good.
Strings are terrible, a shame its a great controler but $3500, for a controller is a bit much.
why polyfony is so inportant for you ,why are used for , i have the 07 ,and for me its awesome what i can do with it.
Why is polyphony important?
@@LeighWilbraham i dunno ,that why i ask
The polyphony is important to me beginning I use the fantom in my church. If you use a single tone mode and play strings, you still loose polyphony. That’s the only drawback for this board
@@LeighWilbraham it’s important because you want to hear every note that you play or trigger.. limited polyphony will cut out notes that you play and jerk the song
Is this a serious question?
Iam doing the same … iam getting the montage!!!!!!
Some of the decisions on this keyboard are indefensible. Roland fanboys are out in force in this comment section. U have drop outs with a drum track, a bass model and a model poly synth with conservative voicing. Even playing the rhythm patterns can drop out and restart. It can get pretty ridiculous. One of my gripes is that you quickly run out of effects options. The MPC platform must be of similar power under the hood and is so more refined and always evolving not just going for the big bucks. This synth mainly sells to users on Facebook with dogs as their profile pictures.
a 100% digital synth should not have polyphony issues in 2023...
Totally agree! This is totally unacceptable, users should demand more from these manufacturers
No one hardware instrument does it all for all genres of music whether live or studio. Sort of the endless search for the holy grail. That's why the computer will never be replaced. I have almost every vst instrument and effects processor that does anything cool, but the cost is crazy. I pity the violinist wanting their violin to sound like a french horn.
Sadly, I have to agree with your review. I recently purchased one of these at a local music store, and I returned it within the week. It's not that I wouldn't have been able to get a lot out of it by working with the presets, but it seems like the sound sets keep getting recycled from decades ago. In my opinion, a workstation that costs this much should give you sounds that are competitive with what you get for a laptop, a MIDI controller, and some VSTs (which would cost less overall than the Fantom), but that's not at all what I was hearing through my headphones. It's sad to see, especially since I loved my Fantom X back in the day.
It looks and sounds fantastic, but if it's not performing as you need it, then it's time to let go. I firmly believe these instruments aren't really meant to be used alone in large 'multitimbral' performances, despite being marketed as an 'all in one' workstation. Perhaps some of the patches used in these performances have limited polyphony by design, in keeping with their analog or early digital counterparts. Perhaps they intend users to print to audio, instead of staying in the MIDI domain? Whatever the reasons, if it's not doing what you need ... Time to let someone else enjoy it. ;)
For me, the polyphony is not an issue. But the sounds strike me as amazing…and there’s so much you can do to change your sounds. I am a gear geek, and also own the Kronos 2 and the Montage…all are stellar pieces (with amazing sounds). One thing I will say about the build quality…it’s incredible (as is the Montage). A great tool in the right hands.
I watched this video with much trepidation, as I spent the weekend deciding to get a Fantom 8. Your argument is interesting, and I understand polyphony frustrations. I'm not sure I'm persuaded tho. I already own an FA-08, and I've yet to bump into polyphony issues. That doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means that for the way I approach sound and music making, it hasn't been an issue - and if it popped up as an issue, it would be infrequent enough that I could work around it.
I love both Yamaha and Roland for the rich musical legacy they represent, as well as the quality of their products, in different ways. The great thing about keyboards now is that you can choose from several incredible manufacturers, all with amazing products that have both strengths and weaknesses of their own. For me, I went from owning two Yamaha MOXF keyboards to having four Roland boards in the course of 10 years. But that's the way my instincts and my research have taken me over time, and in another 10 years my studio (If I last that long!) could be filled with Yamaha again, or Moog, (if THEY last that long) or some other unknown manufacturer. The choices we have are amazing, and our journeys are our own.
I like what you are saying. I find the Fantom easier to navigate in comparison to my Montage. I can live with the Fantom as I have had a couple of them. I have always enjoyed the Roland products and I think it just comes down to personal choice.
Personal Choice...
I think not this Time..
This thing sounds so bad....
That personal Choice is out of discussion here....
Maybe The Fantom G vs The Montage is a good one for this principle
Foe every 30 sounds there is only 1 good one on the FANTOM O or FANTOM
I own the Fantom 8 and this "polyphony" issue has been there since day one and you really have to be doing some ABSURD layering to run into it. The synth does just fine with up to 6 layers which is still kinda absurd for a tone. But you are right, the Roland Fantom is darn there unrivaled when it comes to the sheer beauty of its tones.
Unrivaled except for against the Kronos or the montage m😊
and keep in mind Montage uses the sampling methods for their tones like their famous Piano sound and Fantom uses the Physical Modeling for their pianos....2 different things
It's strange, I heard many complaints about this problem and that prevented me from buying this keyboard, but I found a great deal on it and I pulled the trigger. So far I have not had any issues with polyphony and I have tried up to 8 layers which is much more than I think it's necessary for a single patch. I really love the new V-piano and JD800 extension. This is so far the best synth I have bought in the last 5 years. In sequencer mode I have yet to come across the polyphony problem, so far it's been a flawless machine. I got the 61 version, I'm saving to buy the 88...it's that good.
Glad you like it and it works for you.
@@LeighWilbraham Thank you…. my answer is not to defend Roland in any way, it’s just that, for instance, I’ve heard people running out of polyphony using piano and strings, I I guess how can that be… because if you use any V-piano (unlimited polyphony) plus two strings sounds of up to 4 partials each (most strings are only two partials) it means that you have to play 32 keys simultaneously tu run out of polyphony, and we have ten fingers… if you press ten keys of these sounds and hold them on, you still have ten more keys using up to 8 partial each to run out of one note.
What I do sometimes no to save polyphony, but to simplify my workflow is that I create a very complex patch of up to 5 or 6 zones and then I sample it internally (you can sample your own patch very easily) and those 6 zones (the patch created) uses only one partial (one voice) and a single zone. So that a complex sound that was using up to 20-24 voices at any given key press, now it’s down to only one.
@@borispradel1037 Me ha dado una muy buena idea, gracias desde España, caballero!
@@borispradel1037 you guys only focusing on the polyphony claims
That's only one aspect of the whole drama.
Have you really listen to the brasses and saxes and Guitars???
That's NOT Roland.... I can tell you
I have had Only Roland coming from the Juno 106 till the Fantom G and the INTEGRA
Power USER here....
And I can tell you ( side by side / bit by bit comparison)
This FANTOM is NOT Roland..,..
If you never had a keyboard before
Or if you had a Casio form 1990
And you Jump right into the Fantom
It will be a great Key
Untill you make a step back 10 years earlier with The Roland FA or even the Fantom X.
It's NOT the technic which is briljant...
It's the sound of this thing....
For your information
At this moment I bought 2
Roland GO Keys 5
These are really lovely ...
And yes THIS IS ROLAND ( character)
But the Fantom??? 🤔
I’ve got the baby Fantom (F-06), and I read a lot of posts and saw YT vids about the polyphony issue. There’s a huge difference between the flagship and O series too. I’ve been creating multi-layered scenes on my 06, and I’m not running out of poly. I will say that Roland’s tones, especially their PCM tones have IMO always been poly heavy. A Roland PCM tone using just 3 of the four partials can eat up 9 notes of poly with a single 3 note chord because often each partial is using 2 notes. Throw a sustain pedal on that and poly takes another big hit. Roland has been taking heat for their poly allocation for several decades now. It was worse when the standard poly for a workstation was 64 notes.
Oops just realized I said 9 notes per 3 note chord when that really should be 6 notes.
So you recomond to by the new montage M7 ?
Did you upgreat for the new expantion with the piano classic german
I have it in my rd 2000
Its great
9 was indeed correct. A three-note chord with 3 partials each eats up 3x3=9 partials of the polyphony.
@@valuemastery It’s actually 18 notes poly per 3 note chord. If the tone is actively using 3 of the four partials, and each partial uses 2 notes.., that would mean each key press is using 6 notes of poly. Play a 3 note chord with that tone and you’re using 18 notes. 6x3=18 notes. Start stacking those types of tones in a custom scene, throw in the sustain pedal, and that poly limit drops pretty fast. It would be 9 notes per key press if each partial used 3 notes.
I heard what no one else online tells about that Synth. Thank you.
I had similar thoughts, but not because of polyphonie running out, but the sound at all. But i guess i‘ll keep it. Bought second hand for 2,3 k€. Waiting for the Montage 6M to meet the Genos 2 then. So 3 sets: Genos2/Montage 61M. /. Korg PA5x plus Fantom 7. and the. Ketron Event / Nord stage 4. Lucky me 🥳
Thank you for your informative video.Lack of good polyphony cuz of using not powerfull processor custom built with Roland and second reason sound engine of acoustic instrument is old from 2000 like integra 7. 😂
Sold my because of polyphony as well, after playing a Kronos and now owning a Montage M7 I have definitely made the right move
Thanks for your comment. Glad to hear it’s not just me.
I own both the montage 7 and fantom 8, I feel Roland could have done more for a flagship, the board is very capable but a few issues let it down IMO, and dnt get me started when it comes to updates, please dnt! 😂
Which do you prefer
Fantom or montage m?
@brendanm.9946 probably the montage, it's not a workstation and doesn't have an organ engine, but it's a well rounded product for my requirements, and it sounds great!!
Hi Leigh. The factory will never build perfect products, because they have to continue to make profit! And the area is still no perfect one even in 21st century. Any brands has own mimeses, Korg, Yamaha and so on. Particularly for Fantom is I would ad external sound module for richness of sounds and number of sines .
Thank you very much for this detailed analysis. All those outdated samples that you showed are not the right benchmark, there are many better examples that you didn't show, and they all sound totally different in the band and on big loudspeakers and stages. They sound present and much more realistic. Unfortunately, Montage is far behind Fantom in terms of sound. Montage cannot break through frequently because of the converters and mostly sound engineers have problems. Converters on Roland have been much better quality than Yamaha's in recent years (All after ES Motif). This is still your subjective attitude of playing in room conditions. Fantom is much more than a simple Multisample Player. For me Roland is currently much more innovative than both Yamaha and Korg. It's not all about PCM samples.😊
That’s brilliant and glad you love it. Do you have any videos to show this of you getting that out of your fantom.
@@LeighWilbraham Gladly, as soon as there is an opportunity and a good example. But what I'm talking about is only known to musicians who use Fantom for that purpose. You probably use more in the studio and in that case I absolutely agree with you, because I also come across quite a lot of uninspiring patches without dynamics and which do not follow the current trends in multisampling.
I thought the Fantom has a "Voice Reserve" feature, that helps to decided what part needs more voices, or less?
@@moogy77 if it has let me know where… no mention of this
Interesting observation. Were you new to Roland keyboards when you bought the Fantom, and are you replacing it with anything else?
Thanks. This is so important for me, as a person who is on look out for something like this. Ive been looking for the Montage M8x myself. Looking forward to see what you think about the montage m-series. The Genos 2 is also coming about next week. One question, what is the reason you choose the 73-key version?
It’s 76 key, not 73, and I think it’s fair to say that most people who buy that version do so because it’s a good middle ground, offering more octaves-per-buck in a package that’s not too large, not too heavy, and perhaps most importantly, doesn’t have weighted keys. For me, most of the time, 61 keys is plenty, but i never need 88 and certainly don’t like graded hammer actions keys. So, keyboards like this fill that gap without breaking the bank if you’re already in the market for such a device.
I read about polyphony all the time, and in Roland Fa 08, I have almost no problems with it. I record 16 tracks, adding only reverb, sometimes chorus. A different instrument on each track, drums on 2-6 tracks (I often outsource the drums to someone), bass, strings, a few synth sounds, sometimes arp (one) and I almost never ran out of polyphony. Of course, if I made one sound out of 5 rich other sounds, it would probably be missing. For my needs: composing 16 tracks and exporting to a pendrive or computer, will Fantom 8 or 7 be enough?
Im newbiie on Fantom and may sound odd but imo it is an instrument not only restricted to the thousands as aforementioned. The chance to bring in samples and so many other features are supposed to be updated. We are notin the 80s any longer. Just like you I did have ROlands since then but it is time to get going otherwise we would be stucked on a harpishchord. Yeap many sounds are not realistic and they are not supposed to but you are free to create or buy the proper samples to play real All in all, instruments...Ony distubring issue is the voice..but using a lot of ambience with a good gear it is solved out..WIsh Roland could grant me for standing here saying YES ROLAND GO GO! Thanks for your video. NB, Just got my Fantom 7. All in all it is never possible to please everyone. Looking for new sounds I go for the VSTs and some unknown hardaware that bring you really either real or spaced out sounds. Life it is what it is ..nothing will please everyone.
Roland has a quite interesting Tine Electric Piano sound. This sound can be found only with Roland synth. The korg KromeEX has some few Tine EP which are quite close. But Yamaha MODX+ and PSR-SX700 Tine EP are not even close.
Roland has always had polyphony issue!!! I just finally got my Fantom after selling my G6 last year!!! I hope with this new big update that the next update they will listen and fix this!!!
Hope so
Fix update is out...
Nzyme: new and modern sounds !
What is Nzyme exactly
@@LouisTorres-ut4ksWavetable in Fantom !
@@ursullavandenbord2322 Thank you
Have you experienced polyphony issues? Which patches are problematic? and is it fix able with a software update?
Montage nothing different there…. All that stuff is recycled too….
Hin3stly, if you want the 80s roland sound without the polyphony issues, just get Omnisphere.
Your right
I bought it to regain my JUPITER 8 & other Synth w/ EXP Pks. I hear you!
Júpiter 8 Is my dream synth, awesome 👍
I agree with everything to say Leigh, I have a Fantom 7 and will be PX'ing for a Genos 2 next week, I also have the M8x and its so much better in every way, even my Nautilus has a fresher sound pallet, the real kicker for me is the latest upgrade for the Fantom, £202 and I have already paid £149 for N-ZYME, there is talk of a code for existing users but not really the best way to hold your customers, I will miss it though with its 8000 presets (100+ zencore packs installed)... Great Video...
The upgrade should be free
What do you think about the supernatural sounds with the update?
I must say I miss more velocity layers in the Ep’s and piano section , it’s absolutely not good enough in 2023 and the haven’t developed in this area for ages , when I am used to spectrasonics keyscabe it’s hard to play those old samples with no life when playing hard velocities. But as a midi controller this board is maybe the best out there 😊
They have supernatural sounds now so you get piano and ep modeling instead of samples
I remember when I owned the Kronos and the montage some of the sounds were really impressive but I didn’t like the keybed. Roland has my favorite 88 keybed by far but the sound is lackluster. My biggest complaint for them all is the learning curve. I wish they had editors for a computer so it was set up like a vst. I never stand over the instrument enough to get used to the insane workflows.
Montage m has a vst version.
You know it has organ mode where the faders work as drawbars. You don’t have to use organ presets.
Yup.
I guess my Juno DS doesn't impress at all then.
Hah hah, you can add MC-101 for another 4 parts and 128 voice polyphony and additional stereo outputs for 450 usd or less (if you buy used) for a truly killer setup.
Integra garbage, keys and organ, everything else stale and outdated.
Just get a good midi controller keyboard and Omnisphere. All hardware synths are outdated and a thing of the past. People hate when you say it, but everything is better in software now. Stop wasting money on ultra expensive synth and workstation keyboards. It's about the sound. All these hardware synths today are way too over the top expensive. Roland needs to make a keyboard controller like this build and call it a day. I'll NEVER buy another hardware synth again.
Here we go again… It might suit you, but it doesn’t suit everyone. For a start you need a computer, controller, and then Omnisphere…not cheap, and then you have to deal with computer stability, and the lack of dedicated physical controls. Some people work at a computer all day and don’t want to sit at one to create music. Besides, what do you think a hardware synth is - basically a controller with software built in. This constant comparison and saying one format is better than the other is pathetic.
@@X22GJP Yeah? It IS CHEAPER than a Fantom. Keep the lies you keep telling yourself bankrupt you because you have a gear addiction. Your the pathetic one.
I will stick to hardware on stage.
I actually agree with you. But then I own the Waldorf Quantum, Fantom, Summit, Waldorf M, and a lot of expensive synths came and went. And is there anything an expensive synthesizer can do that my many plugins can´t do? And my HW equalizers? But the thing is, I start creating, twisting knobs, playing, accidents, linkin software synths to hardware, and then I produce, get inspired....
I'm an old guy young boomer I'm a serious composer/jazz pianist I once had a motif es 6 but I was amazed how much work I was able to accomplish by using it to model compositions. But in the actual computer world I'm a monkey flying an airplane trying to integrate midi controller with a myriad of software applications and get it recorded so it's useful.
For next week, Montage M or Montage?
M
Montage M7/M8 is much more for the value, great machine
In what way? I’m looking at both also nord stage 4
The sound is not there!!! Montage had the best sound!!!!