Batman Returns: What's It Really About?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- The Holiday season is not just a time for family gatherings and ugly Christmas sweaters. Sure, we love to sit around a warm fire with our loved ones and sip on Aunt Judy’s famous spiked eggnog- But the winter months are also a time of reflection, anticipation, and in some cases- the death of one thing, and the rebirth of something else. After all, winter signifies the death of leaves, grass, and the calendar year before everything is born again in the spring. So, naturally, it’s the best time for one to cozy up on the couch and revisit those comforting movies that put us in a nostalgic headspace while we reflect on the year behind us.
Such is the case for Tim Burton’s second outing as the director who brought audiences into our “Dark Batman Era” with 1992’s Batman Returns.
This is a movie that, like any piece of Batman media, gets talked about online exhaustively. Whether it’s being praised for its boundary-pushing visuals and incredible casting, or it’s being criticized for its shortcomings when being compared to the original- There is no doubt A LOT to talk about when it comes to this caped Christmas-time classic. But, for me, this movie has always stood out, especially in the lineup of movies that take place around Christmas, because it typically gets overshadowed by Tim Burton and Henry Selick’s “A Nightmare Before Christmas,” which, of course, is an absolute banger, from Halloween to Christmas every single year. But the truth is, there are a lot of topics left on the table when it comes to Batman Returns. You’ve heard about Danny DeVito’s iconic performance as the Penguin, and you’ve of course, seen the beautifully designed shiny black leather of Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman...
But today, I want to get deeper than that and revisit this iconic sequel with one goal in mind. Figure out what Burton was trying to say with what ended up being his final run at the big screen Batman, and see what we can learn from analyzing the film, its creators, and the themes that have stood the test of time for the last 30-ish years. Basically, I just want to know- What is Batman Returns REALLY About?
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#BatmanReturns #TimBurton #MichaelKeaton - บันเทิง
Batman Returns is a simple story of an orphan, a businessman, and a vigilante taking on an orphan, a businessman and a vigilante.
Who's the second businessman?
@@thevaccinator666they’re taking on Batman who is all 3
@@rubicon4life Ahhh I see. That's clever. Thanks (:
Still my favorite Batman movie. A dark, gothic masterpiece.
Besides T2 and Jurassic Park, this was the most influantal Movie, that I've seen as a Kid in the Cinema. Big Batman-Fan since. It has nothing to do with the Comics, but still Burtons Style matches so good with Gotham and the Acting is just amazing. Danny deVito and Michelle Pfeiffer have delivered two of the most outstanding Performances ever. The Score, Directing, Art Direction, Cinematography, Acting ... everything is a 10/10
Way ahead of its time. Also the ONLY TIME Catwoman was interesting.
I like to think this movie is the character study where the three leads (Batman, Penguin, and Catwoman) go through the same arch (feel like they’re missing something, get it, then lose it, then reaction to it) and how each one reacts differently shows you who they are.
The penguin wants to be loved, he does when he’s running for mayor, loses it when his villainy is exposed, then turns homicidal
Cat woman wants to feel powerful, she does, when she Don’s the Cowell, feels like she still week when the penguin defeats her, turns suicidal Deathwish
Batman feels lonely, he feel the connection to Selina, loses her when she suicide kiss Shrek, but he doesn’t let it define him and keeps going… a very Batman thing to do, and shows how he’s different from his villains
As a filmmaker, I love the way Burton taps the pure mythic/archetypal qualities of the characters. Here Catwoman is a perfect mirror for Batman, as death awakens her Jungian shadow, paralleling Batman's shadow anima being awakened. The Penguin similarly makes a great mirror for Batman due to their affluent heritage and beastly qualities. I see the true value of the movie as a primeval explication, though the circus aesthetic also greatly appeals to me.
This is my fave Batman movie for a lot of the reasons you talked about. I also love how every main character has two sides to them and the side they show to the public is not their real side as they hide their own personal truths.
I will say, I think the parents, for me don't come off as cold blooded as you emphasize here, only because I think they freaked out when they saw their baby destroy the housecat. It's still cold blooded but I think that moment is to also signify that Penguin is murderous by nature and that was the last straw for those parents.
Really great video.
It is a quintessential Tim Burton's movie that just happens to feature his vision of Batman's iconic characters. Which it is not necessarily a bad thing. Personally, I really like it.
It's about Christmas. And that's what's so powerful about it.
Warnet Bros: "Think about the children"
Tim Burton: "Fuq them"
STILL my favorite Batman movie
Hands down, my favorite Christmas movie and my favorite Batman movie 🖤🎄🦇🐈🐧
Still one of my favorite Batman films ever.❤
I absolutely adore this movie 😊❤😊❤
Man! This is one of those flicks I have LOVED since it came out….
I'm grateful I was born in a time where I was able to appreciate it not only now but when 1 and 2 were in theaters 🤩🤩 thanks Dad lol
It's about the stress you deal with during Christmas.
🤣😂🎯💯👏
Batman returns was awesome 😎
Finally a Batman Returns review that actually says something new. Great video
The original script for the film was pretty good, but Penguin and Catwoman needed more fleshing out. It was about Penguin and Catwoman looking for treasure. Penguin wasn’t deformed and was called Mr. Boniface, Vicki Vale and Robin were in it, Commissioner Gordon had a bigger role, and the final battle took place at Wayne Manor and in the Batcave
Penguin has NEVER been more fleshed out than here. He is a mere mobster with a New York accent in every other iteration. Here he truly has depth. He has an existential crisis, combined with his homicidal tendencies. But because he was casted out of society you feel for him a little bit. Best on screen penguin by far.
@@atzmanos thank you beautiful said💯 I don't know what that moron was talking about
You know what’s crazy? 30 years later we are still talking about the movie…. I don’t remember people talking about movies in the 90s about movies made in the 60s
Great video. It's a shame WB wanted to sell toys and wouldn't let Tim Burton come back for a third film. Could you imagine how great his Two-Face would've been.
A classic
The last great Batman film pre- Nolan..
One nuance is that the Penguin is always homicidal in this film, with his plan being to punish the elite from the start. Notice that when he's meant to be finding his parents, he's actually making a list of all the first born sons in Gotham. There's a few other references to this throughout but it's not really put front and centre until he fails in his mayoral attempt.
Yeah, like when Batman tells Alfred that he thinks Penguin already knows who his parents were. In fact, if I remember correctly, in the novelization it’s implied he was the one who had killed them. Now he wants revenge on all the elites. The whole thing with being the mayor was just a sidequest for him, something he thought he could use towards his ultimate goal.
That nuance to Penguin’s character _kinda_ makes it tough to feel 💯% sympathy for him because you then realize he’s an attempted child murderer.
I came here for this comment. The penguin's original plan is to kidnap the firstborn children of the elite. It's Max's idea to get him elected, and he convinces penguin to go for that. Then, when the election campaign fails, penguin reverts to his original plan to kill the children and destroy Gotham.
Exceptional video! Batman Returns is an underrated Christmas film, and one of the best Batman films ever made.
I always believed that Batman Returns was all about Wounded souls clashing with one another. Batman/Bruce Wayne was hurt by the death of his parents, but chooses to fight for Gotham. Selina/Catwoman was hurt by her murderous Boss Shreck and becomes Catwoman out of uninhibited revenge. Penguin/Oswald was hurt by the rejection from his Parents and chooses to exact revenge on all of Gotham as a result.
Three points, though:
The whole 'mayor' thing is not Penguin's idea, nor his main focus; it's something Max tempts him with. He just wanted to carry out his 'kill the firstborn' scheme; when the mayoral campaign falls through, that's immediately what he gets back to, and when it's disrupted, he kicks things up a notch by just trying to blow up a big chunk of Gotham. Sure, he likes the idea of wealth and power and influence, but it's something he lets himself get talked into - his real focus is not the desire for acceptance, it's vicious revenge.
It's Selina that Bruce tries and fails to redeem, not Oswald. Sure, he's sympathetic towards him initially, but from the moment he does the research on him and realizes how truly dangerous he is, he pretty much views him solely as an enemy, and focuses on taking him down.
From what I've heard, Burton didn't really get much pushback on 'Batman Returns' until AFTER it was made, when it started becoming controversial. The whole reason the film is the way it is was that after the huge success of 'Batman', they pretty much told him 'do whatever you want; we'll fund you.' It's a little weird to view him as harassed by the studio and making a movie about it when they were being massively indulgent towards him.
I always thought this was about parenthood/childhood
Batman: Orphan (obviously)
Penguin: An abandoned child
Catwoman: Has a dominating mother
And of course then we have the 1st born children aspect
It's about family.
Excellent analysis!! I love your take on the film. Several layers to analyze.
I do think you are overlooking and stretching Penguin a bit. His goal to be Mayor was at most an UNDERLYING goal and not his primary one to validate his parents love (surface level at best). That was more of a manipulation from Max Shreck than something that came from Penguin himself. He was first and foremost looking to murder innocent children for revenge against his parents. We know this because he makes his list of children’s names BEFORE he begins running for mayor. It was his plan from the beginning to punish Gotham.
In a way, he’s a twisted mirror of Batman in that sense. Where Batman wanted to protect people for the tragedy of his parents death, Penguin wanted to murder thousands of children, and later countless civilians when that plot fails because of his parents’ cruelty towards him.
Penguin knew from the beginning his parents hated him. He was never driven for his need for validation from his parents the way Batman is. It was all a ploy to get Max Shreck to help him, and later to trick Gotham into loving him in order to make it easier to commit a massive slaughter. None of this is to say how much of a pervert he was throughout the movie either.
I imagine if he won as Mayor, he would use it as a vehicle to just spread more chaos and mayhem (not unlike his comicbook counterpart). His psychology is very simple, he is a creature of pure hatred.
I can see by the end of the story, Bruce learns what a life driven strictly from vengeance leads to. He sees it firsthand with Penguin’s death. I suspect that is part of what is on his mind in the last scene. Deep contemplation about his motivations and future. This is in addition to the obvious (and similar) sorrow he feels from Selina Kyle’s “death”.
Penguin is a charismatic and theatrical villain, but ultimately a pitiful monster by the end who dies in a morbid fashion. A cautionary tale for Bruce Wayne.
Other than that, I agree and support your analysis!! Awesome job 🔥
Stil love it when catwoman walks around in high heels that would cause nose bleeds, but at 3:45 does cartwheels in socks!
Basically a lot of identity crises. As exemplified by Bruce and Selena attending a masked ball without masks since, you know, their everyday faces ARE the cover identities.
Too dark and a bit depressing but a fine turn by Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman and the non-CGI aided use of the whip on the mannequins.
This is completely random and doesn't really have anything to do with your comment . But the part where batman slides down the roof and she pins him down they totally messed up the editing with the scene. the side shots show his arms under her legs but when the camera goes above you can see she is just laying on top of him . Whoever edited that scene really messed it up. I can understand Michelle maybe didn't like being in that position for too long so maybe asked for the position to be changed but why not get a body double in or something. Sandra Bullock ends up in a similar position in Ms Congeniality and she seemed perfectly comfortable straddling the guy lol .. I don't know its always bugged me that scene
The best underrated xmas movie ever made
I made an audio play based on the original Batman 89 Sequel script using Sam Hamms script
Damn!! My favourite Batman movie. Tim Burton's Catwoman movie with Michelle is STILL my dream !!
Batman Returns is about loving your ugly baby because if you don't it will become a villain.
There’s a video on TH-cam where the controversy about its “violence” and marketing are the topic on Faith Daniels’ show
It's funny that Chip Shrek was played by the Leatherface/ Zangief. And he did a Christopher Walken impression in front of the man himself.
"Fada, it's taim tu bring joy to da massas"
Still One Of My Favorite Batman Films Ever
Masterpiece
The first time I saw this film was around Christmas time when my parents rented on VHS and it became one of my favorite "Christmas" films ever since. It's also my favorite Batman film until I saw Batman Begins.
DC has always had better villains , Marvel has always had better heroes.
Tim Burton: I'm all about the villains!
Bruno Heller: Hold my beer!!!
One of my favorite Batman movies ever 👌🏆👍💐🏅🎖💖🥇great video Congratulations to everyone
Best edit ever❤
You can overcome your pain or let your pain overcome you.
There’s a lot about this movie that I love, I think Michael Keaton is at his best, Michelle Pfeiffer is awesome, Danny DeVito is really, just tremendous! I have a hard time going back and watching it though. I just feel so terrible for the penguin and I can’t watch him die at the end.
Small correction. Her costume is latex not leather. But still ultra sexy.Also she is dark version of Melenie Griffith Working Girl of 4 years earlier
Penguin didn't want to be mayor. Max wanted him to be mayor so he could get the new power plant that the current mayor was against.
Great Job.. Thank you
i make me realise that br was more anti rich than the batman
Excellent essay. I saw this in a theater the week before last and it's still one of my favorites, Christmas or not. It's actually far superior to the '89 Batman. The style of '89 is rather annoying with the 40s gangster aesthetic but this has more soul. It's also the most Burton-esque film ever made as it's the one-time he had complete control with any amount of money to back him, hence this is unbridled Burton. It's a film about trauma and how we react and respond to it. Bruce was wronged and he chose to save; Oswald was wronged and chose to lash out at everyone; Selina was wronged and acts in her own self-interests while trying to find her place in life. I have several Christmas films that celebrate the joy and common themes of Christmas, but RETURNS is unique as it reflects that Christmas can also be a very sad and lonely time of the year for the rest of us.
This itself - Is an excellent essay!
Doesn't compare to 89 batman but its still a good film better than forever and Clooney film
Thank you
The reason that everyone either thinks Batman is overshadowed by his Rogues Gallery, or is less interesting than his villains, is because they HAVE TO BE his REASON to be Batman. After Batman became a crime fighter, he only stayed in the vigilante game because he wanted to prevent more people like him, victims. But that soon became a situation that was not enough for him, when these other criminals who became something MORE than the garden variety thieves, and killers. Batman had developed himself to the peak of physical and mental prowess. He studied at physicist and psychologist levels, in order to quote/unquote, catch the badguys. But at some point at a subconscious level, he needed more than the average badguy. That's when people like Scarecrow, Joker, Riddler, The Penguin and Poison Ivy stepped up the badguy game, and Batman was all too willing to rise to their challenge. He NEEDS his Rogues Gallery as much as they need him. It's in our human nature to oppose a challenge. The ego, super-ego, and the Id ALL CRAVE THAT. That's why Tim Burton's Batman movies are the best, because when they developed psychological profiles for all the characters, they weren't just sitting around trying to reason out why "piggies gonna pig", they figured it out. So when Bruce/Batman remembers that Jack Napier is the crim who killed his parents, when he quickly glances at the screen, it's not just that he realized that Jack Napier killed his parents, and is the Joker, he just came to life in a different way. He had a REAL challenge to rise against on HIS level . . . and the revenge aspect was there too. But the same thing happens in Batman Returns when he is sitting in the dark, brooding and comes to life when the Bat signal beams into his study. And when he is watching thw Penguin gather names in the library, he's "latching onto" the idea that this guy is more dangerous than he seems. He OBSESSIVELY needs the Penguin to be a villain, even when his instincts are correct. Alfred called it when he asked Bruce "mist you be the ONLY loathsome creature in Gotham".
I'll never forget going to the theater to watch this when it came out. A packed theater since it was within the first week or two that this came out, and then whole place just erupting with applause when the parents for Oswald were reviled. This after Paul's headlines about the theater of his own. We were all so happy and excited to see him back in the movies.
It's about Batman realising that he has to stop fighting shadows of himself.
Just Gangsta, love your break down of the movie
Burton did produce the third one, Batman Forever.
@@tonykennedy8483 That's incorrect, they asked him to do the third one and he didn't want to, but they convinced him to produce. That's the only reason why it didn't turn into a complete catastrophe like Batman & Robin did.
Pfeiffer did that whip scene in one take... Look up thr video. Its amazing.
Great video!
it's about broken and lonely creatures during Christmas, easy.
I didn't have a problem with Batman Returns when I saw it at the theater thirty-two years ago, and I don't have a problem with it now. I find it to be a worthy sequel to its successful predecessor, Batman. The problem I do have is the fact that Tim Burton was prevented from returning to do a third Batman film. Instead, what we got were Joel Schumacher's (ridiculous) version of the Caped Crusader in the form of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.
Imagine how much deeper your review would be if you credited Pfeiffer’s performance instead of her costume. 😢
This movie deserves more credit. The toy thing with McDonald’s was a bad idea. Catwoman was so good in this movie, and the themes youpoint out or spot on!
Absolutely incredible sequel, if misunderstood
As I recall, Michelle did trained to use the whip for the movie.
❤❤❤ gonna re watching and love the end credits
Michelle could come out today in 2023 and still rock that catwoman outfit!!! That is the best one, just a cat's hair behind Julie Newmar.
I remember playing the video game on my Super Nintendo as a kid.
Winter _does not signify end of year in the _*_southern hemisphere_* ~
One could make the case that 'Returns' paved the way for the so-called Nolan Batman Trilogy and The Batman (2022) ~
My 1st Batman movie. Still like it although the 1st is iconic. At the same time ValKilmer's Batman came out. My ONLY complain its really the fact Batman had less screen time and there wasnt a great fighting scene
12:40 'see Batman represents VENGEANCE... his whole purpose is to be a symbol of FEAR...'
Funny thing is....
Batman nor Bruce Wayne never met the real Selina Kyle. She had yet to be shoved out a window by Max Shrek when Batman rescued her from that crazed clown.
Hmmmm, Bats saves Blonde from Clown... sounds familiar!😂
batman returns is all burton visuals that happens to have batman in it. the first born son plot going no where, the lack luster final boss ending with the penguin. this is tim burtons gotham, not anton furst's gotham from the original and it shows. batman 89 is the better burton batman film, but batman returns is definetly a go to christmas movie to watch during the holidays.
Gotta love Michelle Pfeiffer as catwoman.
Maybe it's because I grew up watching Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman the longest, but she'll always be my favourite Selina Kyle, rivaled only by Zoe Kravitz.
... From The Lego Batman Movie or The Batman?
All I want for Christmas is TH-cam videos to stop having commercials interrupt them 😡
In the movie Batman Returns, the character of Penguin retells the Biblical story of Moses, but with the roles reversed. While Moses was born into a poor family and adopted by Pharoah’s wife, Penguin was born into a wealthy family but was then abandoned and adopted by sewage misfits. From there, Moses worked his way into the upper echelons of society and had to prove his noble bloodline to be accepted as a member of high society. Moses spoke with God, but Penguin's sins led to his death and possibly eternal damnation in Hell.
Well, if Die Hard is a real Christmas movie, then Batman Returns is also too. This is a very dark and also a little bit sad Christmas story. Actually, Danny De Vito's The Penguin is a perfect villain and monster character for a dark Christmas tale.
My Batman VHS has been stolen. Great days ahead.
I have a complex relationship with Batman Returns. As a kid, I liked it and would watch it constantly on VHS. When I saw the Nolan films, I started to dislike it because it didn’t seem realistic or gritty enough. It was too much like a Tim Burton film. However, I’ve grown to appreciate Tim Burton’s aesthetic over the years. When I saw the film again recently, I loved it because it was like a Tim Burton movie, while at the same time capturing the spirit of the comics.
Michelle Pfeiffer 🖤🖤🖤
You forgot the part where Batman straight up blows a clown up.
I liked this one more than the first one.
About going to the movies and have some fun? Why would you need more than that?
I always wanted to do a Fan Edit combining the two films. Trying to overlap them as much as possible. The exteriors in Returns aren't that great though, and they are in X-mas.
This is no T2 ...but a million times better...than Jurassic Park 2...the lost film😢
❤
I thought the movie was a little bit ham fisted in the use of cat symbols leading up to Selena Kyle's resurrection as Cat Woman. Broke my immersion so to speak. Also, if Jack Nicholson had played the Joker more sinister and a little less campy, no one would fawn over Heath Ledger's Joker in my opinion. Other than that I loved both Tim Burton Batman movies.
They were major cultural touchstones in those years of my life. I remember getting a cool hat to contribute to all of that merchandise money and I bought Batman on VHS as soon as it was available That logo was stunning.
I also remember getting the Batman Returns video game for the Sega CD as a wedding gift.
I did not love the gross penguin but Danny DeVito really brought it with his performance. Michele Pfeiffer! Meow! "'Nuff said!"
BATMAN RETURNS is about the darkness within the human heart. But unlike BATMAN (1989), in which the Joker embodied more or less all of it, BATMAN RETURNS shows Bruce Wayne recognizing it within himself - and, of course, his girlfriend. He is continuing to murder criminals despite already having avenged his parents' deaths. When Selina says, "The law doesn't apply to people like [Max[ or us," and he retorts by saying, "Wrong on both counts," it's a sign that he's finally beginning to understand what Batman has become - no longer a figure of hope, but a figure of terror.
I really want to see a sequel - a 'true," Burton-directed sequel - to this movie. I want to see if Bruce and Selina were finally able to resolve their personal issues.
Fantastic dialogue, and yes its weird
Ahhhhh back in the days when Jim Gordon was white 😂
Correction, Oswald used Max Shrek to get the recourses to get his grubby mittens on all the names of the first born sons of gotham to plot a murder revenge against all the wealthy
Tim Burton like make movie have something bad happen on Christmas
Burton/Keaton TOP
The way he is presented, I never found Penguin sympathetic in this movie. Most, if not all, of his actions that were supposed to engender pathos were done with pretense, e.g., his research in the hall of records - under the guise of identifying his parents (which he already knew), he was actually making a list of all the first born in Gotham for his revenge plot. I can get past his appearance, but the Penguin's grating voice and repugnant actions and personality killed any sympathy I may have felt for him. As much as the film wanted me to feel sorry for him at the end, all I felt was "good riddance."
Unfortunately, I think a lot of the message got lost because Burton was given too much of a long leash.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:05 🦇 *Intro and Winter Reflection*
- Introduction to the theme of winter as a time for reflection.
- Setting the stage for revisiting Batman Returns during the holiday season.
- Exploring the film's significance amid other Christmas-themed movies.
02:41 🎥 *Tim Burton's Approach to Batman Returns*
- Tim Burton's distinctive visual style and storytelling preferences.
- Burton's inclination toward portraying society's outsiders.
- The use of Gothic aesthetics and psychological characters in his films.
05:11 🐧 *Penguin's Tragic Backstory*
- Analyzing the opening scene featuring Penguin's tragic birth and abandonment.
- Highlighting Penguin's desire for acceptance and love despite his physical differences.
- Linking the scene to Burton's intention of revealing the harshness of the upper class.
07:31 🎭 *Max Shrek and Corporate Manipulation*
- Examining Max Shrek as a symbol of corporate manipulation and exploitation.
- Drawing parallels between Max's manipulation of Penguin and Burton's experiences with Warner Bros.
- The scene with Max and Penguin as a reflection of Burton's negotiation struggles with the studio.
09:38 🦸♂️ *Batman as an Outsider and Symbol of Justice*
- Batman's role as a symbol of justice and a defender of the marginalized.
- Bruce Wayne's internal conflict as he navigates his privileged status in Gotham.
- Batman's empathy for Penguin as a fellow orphan seeking love and acceptance.
13:20 🤝 *Connections and Duality*
- The interconnectedness of characters despite their seemingly conflicting goals.
- Batman's revelation of his identity to Catwoman as an attempt to bridge their duality.
- The shared theme of being considered "freaks" and the characters' responses to their tragedies.
15:41 🎄 *Lessons from Batman Returns*
- Lessons learned from Batman Returns: making the right choices despite tragedies.
- Reflection on the film's deeper messages about personal growth and moral choices.
- The theme of saving the city from the flaws within the system it serves.
Made with HARPA AI
The original will always be far superior but Returns has it's merits as well. The scene where reveals his true identity always bothered me since his eye makeup disappears before he tears his mask off.
I love the original Tim Burtons Batman and went to see it the cinema . I remember getting this movie when it was released on video on Christmas Day and being so excited to see it and I was completely let down . I watched it maybe 6 times as a teenager and it just didn't work for me the way the first film did. Perhaps I'll revisit this as an adult and see if a more mature me can appreciate it
i had the opposite effect. i liked returns more than 89 as a kid. now i see returns as ......"huh?" too much focus on the villains (shreck is the main villain and hes not even a real batman villain) this is all burton visuals with no punch.
You can tell this one was more dreamy like cause it’s Tim Burton’s films! He always put a dreamy stamp on his movies like Edward Scissorhands! First time I pay attention to it was not too long ago and I felt like it wasn’t focused on Batman but more on Penguin and Cat Woman. Though Batman played a factor in the movie. It felt like nobody won in the end. Like everyone just learned a lesson 🤷🏾♂️. Which is okay, it was more darker than Batman.