Sorry you're way off base with this one, it's been mathmatically proven and shown many times over many races that you DO not put a guy on freestyle because the fastest females are closer to the fastest males in freestyle than any other stroke. The most difference between male and female is in breastroke so you always should go with male for breastroke unless you have a terrible breastroker. Anyway if they had gone with their best combo which is Regan back, michael Andrew breast, Dressel fly, and a woman freestyler, the best they could have gotten was second. They way they did it, the best they could have gotten was the 5th they got. You won't see any male freestylers in this Olympics for that reason.
@@SkillsNT the big difference is they would have gotten second if FMMF, your times are off. you'll see inparis, noteam will swim a male on freestyle bc that would be slower
On paper, what matters is the time difference between the male swimmer and the female swimmer you're actually choosing from in each stroke, and I didn't try to do the calculations, but it's perfectly possible that in the case of say Romania, that their fastest relay includes David Popovici swimming the freestyle leg. But the main reason it's generally not smart to put a guy last, and the thing @SkillsNT is failing to take into account is that you swim relays in a pool, not on paper...and if you put a male last, and the relays on either side of you have already used their 2 male swimmers, it means your butterflier and freestyler going to be fighting against the wake of the swimmers ahead of them, which will make it difficult to match their best performances. So you might have several different combos with male and female swimmers in different slots that are within about .3 on paper, but the fastest option on paper isn't necessarily going to be the one that gets you the best result because having clean vs. choppy water during your swim can easily make more of a difference than that, and so you also have to take into account what the teams on either side of you are likely to do, and give your team the best chance of having clean water, which generally means front-loading the mixed medley with guys, or at least using them in 2 of the first 3 legs.
@@nothingbutstatic I was thinking that there would have to be tactics and strategy that come into it as well as conditions. Paris has a shallower pool, so it's going to be slower, that's possibly another thing to take into account. Like you said, paper is one thing, pool is another.
@@SilentHotdog28 that at least is the same for everyone, but I doubt the pool is shallow enough that the problem with the chop would be increased by refracting off the bottom.
Mathematically you should let females swim the 2 techniques with the lowest difference between males and females. Those are backstroke and freestyle with both under 6 seconds in the example while the other two are over 6 seconds
@@OthraerirYeah, i do agree. Mathematically speaking, if we just focus in one team (you could argue that some match ups with other teams could affect the performance or induce a psychological effect on your team, but that would be too much speculation), you just need to optimize theoretical time combinations (the combination that minimizes the sum of each time given by your athletes). Assuming 4 time numbers for each swimmer that sumarize their typical performance in each style, you just need to find which combination gives the best possible output (in this case, you could do it by brute force since there are a total of 4*3*2*1= 24 combinations; but there are plenty of algorithms to do that). I repeat, this point of view is assuming that there are no other variables that you should have in mind (maybe in some iterations, the last swimmer has more pressure to perform correctly and that could backfire, even if it is the combination that should give the best possible outcome).
nope, you should never have a male swim freestyle, females are closer to male times. WR in fly diffrence in male and female is almost 6 seconds, whereas world record difference in free is only 4 and a half seconds. Simple math.
Another person made a comment on this, but the science shows that the two slowest strokes should be swam by male and the two fastest strokes should be swam by female everything else being equal, and I’d like to update with the most current event which was that the World Record got broken by USA with MMFF. Since backstroke and breaststroke are the slowest strokes, 2024 USA put men on first and second leg, and women on fly and free.
@@SkillsNT WR difference in free between guys and girls is 4 and a half seconds, so it's much closer than any other stroke, you should never have a man swim the freestyle leg, it was a huge mistake for USA, you'll see in Paris, no one will swim a man on the final leg, this has been proven in the swimming community since Tokyo, they made a huge misake same one you just made in this video sadly. You should alway have the male do breastroke because there is the widest gap there and you should always have the female swim freestyle bc there is the littlest gap between fastest females and males.
@@sethaldrich6902 not everyone has world record people on the relay. And Dressel was in no position of swimming a world record on his third event of the night. Like I said putting Apple would've made more sense.
@@SkillsNTyour analysis is good. Of course on the basis of WR it is FMMF which GB did because they had the best breastroker and James Guy is an excellent relay swimmer (he feels as if he has to do something for the team). However the breastroke between male and female makes the key difference so it all depends on what you have available. One important thing is to give the first leg backstroke to a man ( if a good one is available) as it does provide clear water and a psychological boost to the team. So now I prefer MMFF which is more popular and what US did this year. What’s important is that it is a very complicated interesting event. This year we also got a nice 4 x 400 m mix race in athletics where the Dutch girl was 5th and 50 m behind and came first. Amazing and fun.
Mathematically, if we didn't know about the best times of each swimmer, wouldn't it make sense to put men in the slowest strokes? Men have a certain percentage advantage over women. It's about 11% in running, but less (close to 7%) in swimming. By putting men in the slowest strokes, you shave off the most seconds.
At 0:55 you give the options for 2 men and 2 female teams. But option 2 has 3 men. The bottom man should be a female, since the other changes would be either options 1 or 5. One complicating factor which you only hinted at is the fact that top male swimmers will always be faster than top female swimmers. The slower a stroke is the more time a female will lose on that stroke. So in general it will be better to have a man do the breaststroke. But a full analysis of the times and the delta between female and male times per stroke is necessary. You kind off looked at this but it was not really clear. A second factor that you did not look at is the position the swimmer will have relative to the other swimmers. Choppy water will be more difficult to make up time/distance, but being in a draft of somebody will make it easier to keep up and thus lose less time. Looking at it that way in general it is probably best to start with a FMMF team. But it all depends on the swimmers available.
Doesn't it only matter which aggregate times are profuced by the theoretical individual times of the 4 athletes. Yes i understand that choppy water affects the performance if you're trailing at certain stages, but not THAT much.
Its simple.. ALWAYS PUT a MANfor breastroke . Thats the most Slowest stroke and Men swim that much faster than female compared to ANY OTHER STROKE!!! It all comes down to BREASTROKE All the medalist had MEN on breatstroke
Actually it does matter because the difference between men and women in certain strokes is far greater. Men swim far faster than women on the breastroke than the other 3 strokes. The breastroke should always be men.
Logically, it would be better to put a male on the "slower" strokes: breastroke and backstroke. Thats why most teams chose to go MMFF. The freestyle is a terrible choice to put a male on because of how fast it goes, its difficult to catch up.
Uk does better at relays as we are about the we and usa is about the I. Check out the famous 4 x 400m track race were chris A a hurdler run down and beat the 400m champion. For the team win.
I’m pretty sure the men who placed 7th or 8th in the 100 m breaststroke was still faster than Jacoby who is the women’s Olympic champion. It’s mathematically proven that even a mediocre male breaststroke swimmer (in Olympic standards) would still be faster than the fastest female
USA got some delay when one of their athelete's goggle slipped off that happened to my kid in one of his swim meet. it ruins your race. the wonder which james guy did for GB , imo anyday dressel should have go for fly leg.
Yeah, this calc is way off. You need to see what the differences are between male and female performers in the same style. The biggest difference is in breaststroke, as it’s the slower of the 4. That’s why you always use a male breaststroker, even if you have the best female breaststroker in the world
There are much more permutations than 4x4x6. Dressel did not have to swim the freestyle or butterfly. Suppose he has a 2 sec advantage in FS or BF, and a 1 sec disadvantage in breast or back strokes, another teammate has a 1 sec advantage in FS or BF, but a 3 sec disadvantage in the BSs. Dressel doing FS or BF and the other doing a BS would produce a net of 1 sec disadvantage. Dressel doing a BS and the other doing FS or BF would produce no net advantage or disadvantage, a better result.
They wouldn't put him in any other strokes because there are two people faster than him in those strokes. They have 2 swimmers of each stroke of 100 meters. In the case of freestyle, butterfly men they only had 3.
If Dressel isn't doing fly or free, the relay would be Ryan Murphy (back), Nic Fink (breast), Gretchen Walsh (fly), Kate Douglass (free). It's probably not the fastest on paper, but having the guys swim the first two legs does have its advantages. The one that may be fastest on paper and probably makes the most sense is Smith, Fink, Dressel, Douglass.
And I was just proven right, this is the worst way to swim the race, that is why none of the teams in the Paris olympics swam it this way and it is the reason why the US broke the world record b/c they went mmff this time.
Men are, more or less, equally faster than women in any style. So, the slower the style is, the bigger the gap. Men should be assigned to the slowest two styles.
Most people who do not fall for woke ideology knows that males dominate in every swim event, in every swimming distance These are the results for just the 100m event. The results are not even close. Stroke..............Male World Record Time.............Female World Record Time...........Fastest Overall Freestyle.........46.86 (David Popovici, 2022).......51.71 (Sarah Sjöström, 2017).......Male Breaststroke...56.88 (Adam Peaty, 2019)...........1:04.31 (Ruta Meilutyte, 2023)......Male Backstroke.....51.60 (Thomas Ceccon, 2022)....57.45 (Kaylee McKeown, 2023).....Male Butterfly.........49.45 (Caeleb Dressel, 2019).......55.48 (Sarah Sjöström, 2016)........Male *sorry about the lousy formatting
You are over-analyzing. They made bad choices, in retrospect, where everything is 20/15. They must have had unmet expectations for the splits each swimmer would produce in their assigned events, because if they didn't, they suck at math and decisions.
It’s a mixed relay…. they have 2 men and 2 women! It’s the same for athletics. 100 / 200 / 400 meters. This was completely even playing field. They mistakenly chose to put women against men. They could have chosen Men, Women, Men, Women. But they chose to put their man last.
the way the lanes interact is important as well with drafting being a positive and choppy water a negative
Sorry you're way off base with this one, it's been mathmatically proven and shown many times over many races that you DO not put a guy on freestyle because the fastest females are closer to the fastest males in freestyle than any other stroke. The most difference between male and female is in breastroke so you always should go with male for breastroke unless you have a terrible breastroker. Anyway if they had gone with their best combo which is Regan back, michael Andrew breast, Dressel fly, and a woman freestyler, the best they could have gotten was second. They way they did it, the best they could have gotten was the 5th they got. You won't see any male freestylers in this Olympics for that reason.
The mixed medley was after all the 100s. I used those times. Not a big difference.
@@SkillsNT the big difference is they would have gotten second if FMMF, your times are off. you'll see inparis, noteam will swim a male on freestyle bc that would be slower
On paper, what matters is the time difference between the male swimmer and the female swimmer you're actually choosing from in each stroke, and I didn't try to do the calculations, but it's perfectly possible that in the case of say Romania, that their fastest relay includes David Popovici swimming the freestyle leg.
But the main reason it's generally not smart to put a guy last, and the thing @SkillsNT is failing to take into account is that you swim relays in a pool, not on paper...and if you put a male last, and the relays on either side of you have already used their 2 male swimmers, it means your butterflier and freestyler going to be fighting against the wake of the swimmers ahead of them, which will make it difficult to match their best performances. So you might have several different combos with male and female swimmers in different slots that are within about .3 on paper, but the fastest option on paper isn't necessarily going to be the one that gets you the best result because having clean vs. choppy water during your swim can easily make more of a difference than that, and so you also have to take into account what the teams on either side of you are likely to do, and give your team the best chance of having clean water, which generally means front-loading the mixed medley with guys, or at least using them in 2 of the first 3 legs.
@@nothingbutstatic I was thinking that there would have to be tactics and strategy that come into it as well as conditions. Paris has a shallower pool, so it's going to be slower, that's possibly another thing to take into account. Like you said, paper is one thing, pool is another.
@@SilentHotdog28 that at least is the same for everyone, but I doubt the pool is shallow enough that the problem with the chop would be increased by refracting off the bottom.
0:53 damn #2 looks so obviously optimal.
Yea, I noticed that mistake too :)
Great analysis
Mathematically, you should let the men handle the 2 slowest techniques, and women the 2 quickest techniques.
Mathematically you should let females swim the 2 techniques with the lowest difference between males and females. Those are backstroke and freestyle with both under 6 seconds in the example while the other two are over 6 seconds
it all depends what swimmers you have.
@@OthraerirYeah, i do agree. Mathematically speaking, if we just focus in one team (you could argue that some match ups with other teams could affect the performance or induce a psychological effect on your team, but that would be too much speculation), you just need to optimize theoretical time combinations (the combination that minimizes the sum of each time given by your athletes). Assuming 4 time numbers for each swimmer that sumarize their typical performance in each style, you just need to find which combination gives the best possible output (in this case, you could do it by brute force since there are a total of 4*3*2*1= 24 combinations; but there are plenty of algorithms to do that).
I repeat, this point of view is assuming that there are no other variables that you should have in mind (maybe in some iterations, the last swimmer has more pressure to perform correctly and that could backfire, even if it is the combination that should give the best possible outcome).
Then the coach would be accused of misogyny.
bro knew what he was doing with the thumbnail😭
Rage baiting the anti woke is always good for clicks
I thought this was going to be a video about the dude swimming on the UPenn women’s team
Really interesting. I didn’t even know they did this. Good job, Great Britain.
When I saw the thumbnail, I thought it has something to do with the Olympics again. Thank goodness it was uploaded a month ago 😅
This year the obvious answer is to go FMFM with Reagan Smith and Gretchen Walsh swimming Back and Fly.
nope, you should never have a male swim freestyle, females are closer to male times. WR in fly diffrence in male and female is almost 6 seconds, whereas world record difference in free is only 4 and a half seconds. Simple math.
I think you're going to see Dressel on the fly leg, and Kate Douglass in free. Front end almost definitely Smith and Fink.
You should have male breaststroke, female freestyle. Back and fly are tossups.
The US won this year’s olympics at Parks. MMFF :)
It doesn't MATTER what combos you swim, it's collective and if your team is the fastest you win !
Are we forgetting that Jacoby‘s goggles fell off?
she still swam close to her best time, but that doesn't matter, it's always better to swim a male breastroker.
@@sethaldrich6902 r u good
I love how everyone forgets this. It was huge. That said, man on breaststroke proved to be correct again
This
curious if you ever taught at a coaches clinic in Mystic CT in the 90s ??
I was born in the 90s 😅 I don't know what that clinic is
Another person made a comment on this, but the science shows that the two slowest strokes should be swam by male and the two fastest strokes should be swam by female everything else being equal, and I’d like to update with the most current event which was that the World Record got broken by USA with MMFF. Since backstroke and breaststroke are the slowest strokes, 2024 USA put men on first and second leg, and women on fly and free.
So point being... don't use swimmers that participate in too many events at once.
Oh, wow, more swimming medals. There's a shock.
The title led me to believe this was coverage of a typical Katie Ladecky race.
Brest and Fly for men, the gap is bigger as in free and back
On paper and for wr. It's not the case for every country.
@@SkillsNT WR difference in free between guys and girls is 4 and a half seconds, so it's much closer than any other stroke, you should never have a man swim the freestyle leg, it was a huge mistake for USA, you'll see in Paris, no one will swim a man on the final leg, this has been proven in the swimming community since Tokyo, they made a huge misake same one you just made in this video sadly. You should alway have the male do breastroke because there is the widest gap there and you should always have the female swim freestyle bc there is the littlest gap between fastest females and males.
@@sethaldrich6902 not everyone has world record people on the relay. And Dressel was in no position of swimming a world record on his third event of the night. Like I said putting Apple would've made more sense.
@@SkillsNTyour analysis is good. Of course on the basis of WR it is FMMF which GB did because they had the best breastroker and James Guy is an excellent relay swimmer (he feels as if he has to do something for the team). However the breastroke between male and female makes the key difference so it all depends on what you have available. One important thing is to give the first leg backstroke to a man ( if a good one is available) as it does provide clear water and a psychological boost to the team. So now I prefer MMFF which is more popular and what US did this year. What’s important is that it is a very complicated interesting event. This year we also got a nice 4 x 400 m mix race in athletics where the Dutch girl was 5th and 50 m behind and came first. Amazing and fun.
Well the second combination you have is MMFM.
Edit: I think it's meant to read MMFF.
Mathematically, if we didn't know about the best times of each swimmer, wouldn't it make sense to put men in the slowest strokes? Men have a certain percentage advantage over women. It's about 11% in running, but less (close to 7%) in swimming. By putting men in the slowest strokes, you shave off the most seconds.
MMFF seemed to work well for US in Paris.
Combination 2 MMFM?
Forget the analysis, the team who doped the most won, including the USA.
At 0:55 you give the options for 2 men and 2 female teams. But option 2 has 3 men. The bottom man should be a female, since the other changes would be either options 1 or 5.
One complicating factor which you only hinted at is the fact that top male swimmers will always be faster than top female swimmers. The slower a stroke is the more time a female will lose on that stroke. So in general it will be better to have a man do the breaststroke. But a full analysis of the times and the delta between female and male times per stroke is necessary. You kind off looked at this but it was not really clear.
A second factor that you did not look at is the position the swimmer will have relative to the other swimmers. Choppy water will be more difficult to make up time/distance, but being in a draft of somebody will make it easier to keep up and thus lose less time. Looking at it that way in general it is probably best to start with a FMMF team. But it all depends on the swimmers available.
Doesn't it only matter which aggregate times are profuced by the theoretical individual times of the 4 athletes. Yes i understand that choppy water affects the performance if you're trailing at certain stages, but not THAT much.
at 0:53 I’ll go with #2
Lydia Jacoby's goggles were a bigger problem, but putting men on breast and back is the way to go. It bore out again this year
I’m so confused so I farted and went to sleep 🛌 😴
Its simple..
ALWAYS PUT a MANfor breastroke .
Thats the most Slowest stroke and Men swim that much faster than female compared to ANY OTHER STROKE!!!
It all comes down to BREASTROKE
All the medalist had MEN on breatstroke
yes. your tactic is sound. should man swim the butterfly leg as well?
It doesn't matter what order you put a relay team in, the team was slower than other teams.
Actually it does matter because the difference between men and women in certain strokes is far greater. Men swim far faster than women on the breastroke than the other 3 strokes. The breastroke should always be men.
why am I watching this ? :D
Logically, it would be better to put a male on the "slower" strokes: breastroke and backstroke. Thats why most teams chose to go MMFF. The freestyle is a terrible choice to put a male on because of how fast it goes, its difficult to catch up.
左から2番目、最強！
It's all about matchup. If a fast swimmer swims with slower ones, it can slow him down. If fast swimmer swam with fast swimmers, he could go faster.
Uk does better at relays as we are about the we and usa is about the I. Check out the famous 4 x 400m track race were chris A a hurdler run down and beat the 400m champion. For the team win.
I’m pretty sure the men who placed 7th or 8th in the 100 m breaststroke was still faster than Jacoby who is the women’s Olympic champion. It’s mathematically proven that even a mediocre male breaststroke swimmer (in Olympic standards) would still be faster than the fastest female
Another thing that isn't calculated is wake force... If you aren't in yhe right part of the wake, that messes up your swimming style
you should put the slowest always last
combination #2 is MMFM, should be MMFF
It also didn’t help that Lydia Jacoby swam her breast stroke leg with her googles over her mouth.
USA got some delay when one of their athelete's goggle slipped off that happened to my kid in one of his swim meet. it ruins your race. the wonder which james guy did for GB , imo anyday dressel should have go for fly leg.
Yeah, this calc is way off. You need to see what the differences are between male and female performers in the same style. The biggest difference is in breaststroke, as it’s the slower of the 4. That’s why you always use a male breaststroker, even if you have the best female breaststroker in the world
There are much more permutations than 4x4x6. Dressel did not have to swim the freestyle or butterfly.
Suppose he has a 2 sec advantage in FS or BF, and a 1 sec disadvantage in breast or back strokes, another teammate has a 1 sec advantage in FS or BF, but a 3 sec disadvantage in the BSs. Dressel doing FS or BF and the other doing a BS would produce a net of 1 sec disadvantage. Dressel doing a BS and the other doing FS or BF would produce no net advantage or disadvantage, a better result.
They wouldn't put him in any other strokes because there are two people faster than him in those strokes. They have 2 swimmers of each stroke of 100 meters. In the case of freestyle, butterfly men they only had 3.
If Dressel isn't doing fly or free, the relay would be Ryan Murphy (back), Nic Fink (breast), Gretchen Walsh (fly), Kate Douglass (free). It's probably not the fastest on paper, but having the guys swim the first two legs does have its advantages. The one that may be fastest on paper and probably makes the most sense is Smith, Fink, Dressel, Douglass.
And I was just proven right, this is the worst way to swim the race, that is why none of the teams in the Paris olympics swam it this way and it is the reason why the US broke the world record b/c they went mmff this time.
Change title, absolutely misleading
wsg skills an talents
That was disappointing. I was expecting video of the man swimming against the women.
I thought putting 2 trans in Paris will be the best combination
This guy don't know how to explain his idea... It was very confufing hearing him...
i hope you're not trying to prove anything other than strategy
When i saw the video title i though at first this would be about transgender athletes ruining womens sports - ngl...
Same lol
I thought it was some transgender getting beaten by 7 females!
Men are, more or less, equally faster than women in any style. So, the slower the style is, the bigger the gap. Men should be assigned to the slowest two styles.
But aren't women equal in sports? I thought saying otherwise was misogynistic!
Most people who do not fall for woke ideology knows that males dominate in every swim event, in every swimming distance
These are the results for just the 100m event. The results are not even close.
Stroke..............Male World Record Time.............Female World Record Time...........Fastest Overall
Freestyle.........46.86 (David Popovici, 2022).......51.71 (Sarah Sjöström, 2017).......Male
Breaststroke...56.88 (Adam Peaty, 2019)...........1:04.31 (Ruta Meilutyte, 2023)......Male
Backstroke.....51.60 (Thomas Ceccon, 2022)....57.45 (Kaylee McKeown, 2023).....Male
Butterfly.........49.45 (Caeleb Dressel, 2019).......55.48 (Sarah Sjöström, 2016)........Male
*sorry about the lousy formatting
Behold! Gender equality.
You are over-analyzing. They made bad choices, in retrospect, where everything is 20/15. They must have had unmet expectations for the splits each swimmer would produce in their assigned events, because if they didn't, they suck at math and decisions.
Hands down always put a man on the breaststroke, and always put a wo.an on the freestyle.
Get that doggie outta the pool
Just leave it all male team or female team. Stop complicating things.
They really really need to stop adding more swimming events this is getting ridiculous
Who the hell cares about mixed up swimming events…?
Missleeding title. It’s not what it implies😮
They should separate the race for different sexes. Give me a they/them, I/and
There are 2 men and 2 women
Just show the video and shut up
The US won this year’s olympics at Paris. MMFF :)
THIS WHATEVER IT IS, NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM WOMEN'S SPORTS FOREVER!! HE HAS A DANGLER!!!!
It’s a mixed relay…. they have 2 men and 2 women! It’s the same for athletics. 100 / 200 / 400 meters. This was completely even playing field. They mistakenly chose to put women against men. They could have chosen Men, Women, Men, Women. But they chose to put their man last.