Imagine if logia actually limited your speed to the corresponding element. Akainu moving at magma speed just sliding around marineford and whitebeard casually walking away.
That's a really funny image, now imagine Aokiji with the speed of a glacier moving. Not an avalanche, a glacier. The man would have woken up, and before he stood up fully, the Marineford War would've been done 50 years ago.
@@Deode-d4h Except his fruit isn't the ice fruit but the chilly-chilly fruit and the speed of cold or rather heat is essentially light speed so he'd be as fast as kizaru, but yes it would be funny if users of the fruit just turned into ice statues.
@@henryboussamba6058 you can look at it from two angles, either you say given the lack of contradictory evidence you assume it's the same as ours or you can point out that several charachters move faster than the speed of light based of distance traveled over a span of time and that those charachter can still see each other and say it's faster.
light speed travel is fine but FTL combat speed is stupid. kizaru light speed travel is because he turns himself into light when travelling. variables liek Observation Haki, Battle experience, also matter, the problem with you anime fans is you never played any sports and dont udnerstand well enough.
@@wdadwdwdwadw8604 Light Speed travel speed being plausible as he can use his light form to travel a considerable distance. Him being FTL+-MFTL in combat is because of the literal context of the anime where there are no signs showing that a person can have Limitations. Logia Devil Fruit users doesn't have a limit on their speed, so does Zoan and Paramecia Devil Fruit users. So why do we suddenly cap people like Kizaru and Enel to their respective element speed when the show explicitly shows that There's no such thing as a Limitation when it comes to both Power and Speed? See?._. It's annoying.
The only physical limit I'm annoyed by is the fact that people, when hit by an object with Infinite Energy (Kizaru's leg having an infinite mass when moving at light speed, and therefore infinite energy because KE = mv^2) aren't deatomized in a nuclear explosion. Kizaru is by far the strongest character in One Piece if you include real world physics.
Well, I really hate to be that guy, but technically if moving AT light speed is super dangerous, then getting hit by opponents by Ichiji who can clearly move *faster* than light would mean they're equally devastating if not more, no? Bc throwing punches at FtL is definitely a minimum for Admiral/Yonko status yeah?
@@biggimmicke I mean maybe but I was limiting the discussion to Kizaru. I feel like he should be the only one able to operate at those speeds but clearly that's not the case unless Ichiji's beams are slower than the speed of light.
@@legoman7041 I 100% get where you were coming from and if I'm being transparent I'm just trying to stem conversation and I didn't want anyone to say it before i did lmao, good point tho my b
@@legoman7041 oda has made a point that hella characters definitely move over light speeds. This is just a thing in anime/manga period it’s literally in basically most forms of fiction they don’t follow irl rules
@@Reallyjoyboyfr I guess so but I feel like if he gave someone the Pika Pika no Mi then no one else should be able to achieve that. Kinda like how nobody can grab Shadows like Moria can. Because of his Devil Fruit.
I started this video with the expectation that you would throughly debunk the bad arguments against kizaru and ftl one piece and was not dissapointed, this video is amazing it adresses every argument I have heard against the light speed meta in one piece and throughly destroyed the narative that one piece is capped at light speed.
One thing that kept me thinking that Luffy was lightspeed when I first got into One Piece was him being repeatedly tagged by Kizaru at Marineford, especially since he was tagged in his fastest gear at the time. Having gone back through Marineford and recalling the events of Impel Down, there is an in story reason for Luffy being hit by lightspeed attacks despite having several laser dodging feats up to that point. From the numerous high tier enemies repeatedly attacking Luffy, and the fact that he was still recovering from his fights in Impel Down, and the fact that his body was crashing from Ivankov’s hormone injection, the Marineford Luffy that Kizaru was tagging was nerfed compared to his regular strength and speed.
I think you still have a slight misconception going on as well though. Kizaru is an Admiral, literally one of the highest tiered characters in the series. His attacks are not limited to only light speed my friend. Luffy being tagged by Kizaru makes complete sense even in the context of the story now, just like how Steinixos said, he's a human AND a light man, light speed is just his BASE for his abilities, but we know DF users can push their abilities further, again as Steinixos pointed out. I agree Luffy was overwhlemed, but don't do this to yourself to undersell both Kizaru and Luffy.
There are 3 things about Kizaru and Luffy. The times that Kizaru hit Luffy were when Luffy was either mid air or off guard/busy with another fight. Kizaru has also been confirmed to have Observation Haki which allow him to predict Luffys movements as well. Lastly, Luffy in the pre timeskip is in the Relativistic tiers of speed. So Kizaru hitting him still would make sense.
“ Kizaru is an Admiral, literally one of the highest tiered characters in the series. His attacks are not limited to only light speed my friend.” I don’t disagree, I certainly think scaling from Rayleigh and Wano Luffy that Kizaru’s combat speed would be massively faster than light. In the case of Marineford though it primarily seems like Kizaru was tagging Luffy with his light based speed. At least 3 times Kizaru kicks Luffy, all of them using his light based kick like he used with Hawkins, and at least 2 times Kizaru uses his laser, once to pierce a tired Luffy on the ground and later on to destroy the key to Ace’s cuffs in Luffy’s hand.
It's mainly because Luffy was only LS in terms of reactions. You can see in Chapter 566 when Kizaru blitzes Luffy, Luffy is still clearly able to react but he's not fast enough to dodge. The immense exhaustion also plays a role but this discrepancy is mostly due to a different in speed types. Luffy didn't have LS combat speed pre timeskip. He only had LS reactions. Thats what people keep getting confused.
Damn I just realized how much big of a feat hajurdin showed, 10,000 metric tons to pounds is roughly 22,000,000 which is absolutely insane and this is even mare of a feat considering mach vise also had gravity on his side. Don’t know how to calculate how much more force that would be, but I assume a considerable amount.
You gotta be one of the smartest powerscalers. I consider myself really well versed in one piece powerscaling yet ive still learned a couple things from watching your videos that are crucial towards powerscaling.
@@Steinixos Yeah, I forgot that some people try to use 3d2y to attack FTL One Piece. I’m glad that you also addressed that part, since now I know for a fact that they completely took it out of context.
Thank you so much. It feels very obvious to me who has and has not actually read the entirety of the story when people start debating Speed in OP. We all know it doesn't make any sense for him to be able to kick someone with infinite mass, but that doesn't stop Oda from doing any of the many, many other impossible things in this story. Also, who would want to read a boring, predictable story like that? Oda's random, weird, real-world breaking powers is what makes this series so awesome. The manga makes it explicitly clear where the light speed barrier is. Plenty of PreTS *reaction* feats, but very few actual instances of FtL. Kaido and Luffy's combat speed are FtL, if not Massively Faster than light based on downplayed scaling alone. Kizaru is an admiral on a similar level to the Yonko. Why would he be CAPPED at light speed and not his minimum? Powerscalers out here really accepting Goku and Vegeta can break dimensions by shouting a little hard yet start wetting the bed about One Piece speeds not being accurate to the real world.
"Powerscalers out here really accepting Goku and Vegeta can break dimensions by shouting a little hard yet start wetting the bed about One Piece speeds not being accurate to the real world." FACTS. The double standards are insane. Hell theres Faster than Light FISH in Toriko but you don't see anybody going "Oh but in the real world..." It's BS. Cope arguments used to downplay.
Especially naruto power scalers dude, there was this one guy, who said Kizaru doesn't fire beams at the speed of light JUST because attack speed is lower than movement speed. The fuck?
@@emperorluffy6001 I know, Naruto fans are the most annoying in power scaling,Cause at least DBZ fans don't say,"WELL ITS NOT REALISTIC So ITS NOT TRUE"
It's because Kizaru is a boring clown who hardly does anything. Do you really think the dude who got threatened by a gun is realistically lightspeed? Even if he is legit, his feats make Kizaru look like a jobber and you need other character's feats to even make Kizaru relevant.
@@Steinixos Tbh it's just convenient to have a quick video to reference, and thanks to your handy editing I can clearly pull up their exact counterarguments. Keep doing the good work my man!
Those Last Two Arguments Are The Ones I Mainly Deal With When Debating; “Kizaru Capping At LS” And “One Piece Characters Can’t Move At LS Because Of That Rayleigh Statement” Nothing Urks My Nerves More Than That Because The People Arguing That Are Obviously Just Doing Whatever They Can To Downplay The Speed Of One Piece Characters. Calling Kizaru And The Pacifista’s Lasers Not LS Is Another Argument I Hear A Lot Too🤦🏾♂️ Keep Pumping Out These Great Videos And Spread The Gospel Of The True Strength Of One Piece Characters 🙏🏾❤️
Tbh I just tell them they are taking things out of context because Rayleigh literally blind folds luffy so he's not even talking about looking at the light he telling you to sense it before it comes
What end up with these discussion is you end up disappointing with how Oda underuse him. Kizaru is just a roadblock, not narrative. faster you accept that faster kizaru can stop carry your autis expectation.
if you think about it, since kizaru's leg is simply made of light, and therefore has no mass, him kicking someone wouldn't have like, infinite power or something. it would either just be the energy imparted on them via the light hitting them, or just kizaru's haki
Yep,kizaru is light speed in movement speed,and FTL in both combat speed and reaction speed For the madara's light fang not being light speed,it is light speed cuz it is stated to be light speed,the same is with laser circus etc that are specifically stated to move at light speed. Same is with raikage being light speed as stated 3 whole times. And the same is with black clover attacks cuz they are stated to be light speed,licht is light speed.
I honestly don't disagree that Light Fang and Raikage are light speed. I do concede that point to Naruto fans during these types of arguments. However, I dislike it when they say that "Kizaru is light so his MAX should be lightspeed."
I am pretty sure an average human from One Piece wouldn't be classified as a ''Homo Sapiens Sapiens'' if they isekai'd to our world. They have Fishmen, Giant, and who knows what genome is in their DNA. The same goes for any verse where humans commonly (or used to, like Pokemon) bang with non-human races.
Great video as always steinixos Are you going to do more verse with admiral against other anime universe like black clover, dragon ball, bleach and etc. Are you excited for last saga of one piece lol ?
Ok ignoring my last comment I think the video is perfect as is. I initially thought that some people were right when they mentioned stuff about the anime but after re-examining the video not only is there nothing at conflict with the manga but you even explicitly use the manga regarding Chopper dodging the laser while exhausted to further prove your point that there was no aim dodging involved. I should have listened to your words more carefully. I don't think there are any points in this video that are refutable if you're actually listening closely. A lot of people who respond have a bad habit of selective listening where they hear what they want to or reinterpret something you've said in the own heads. This has happened to me too so I want people to be aware of that when they're responding. Steinixos is a meticulous guy who likes to break down every possible argument and chances are he has already addressed whatever point you want to bring up. That being said I thought everything was pretty well handled. I know you already shut it down utterly and completely but the fact that people even USE the ordinary human limits argument to this day still blows my mind. The Kizaru needing the Yata Mirror arguments is crap I've debunked constantly but I still hear it all the time. It's a cope argument. Not to mention it blatantly ignores all the moments we clearly see Kizaru moving around as light while NOT using it. Like him appearing in front of Whitebeard during the war(Chapter 553) and when he casually blitzed Luffy as Light(Chapter 566) etc. A couple points I'd like to add in regards to Fiction & Physics. Seththeprogrammer has a great video that goes over this, in his How Strong is Kratos video. Basically fans of God of War always ask why can Kratos has the strength to fight all this gods but still struggle with opening a chest in the game. And the author makes it clear that there are concessions you have to make when writing a story. If Kratos did everything at that sort of strength then you couldn't play the game. Basically what the author is saying here is that Kratos is that strong but they can't always show that level of strength because it interferes with the gameplay. It's the same thing in storytelling. If a character is faster than light or can punch a planet to dust you're not gonna see them cause that kind of destruction all the time because it interferes with the author's ability to tell the story. A good example of this was in the TV show Smallville Documentary where they were explaining how they created the effects for Superman's speed(if anyone remembers this Documentary please link me because I can't seem to find it anywhere) when they were explaining the effects of him being supersonic they explained that if Clark actually moved that fast the sonic booms they created would cause shockwaves and destroy whatever room he was in. But they wanted him to zip in and out of rooms without a trace. So you know what they did? They just ignored it. If theres an aspect of physics that interferes with how an author wants to tell the story, they're just going to ignore it. Clark is still clearly supersonic in the show. It's just that all aspects of physics that aren't need to tell the story aren't going to be taken into consideration. Thats how it is with lightspeed. In the Manga Medaka Box the Main character Medaka plays the drums at Lightspeed to create a unique sound. Things like infinite mass aren't taken into consideration for stuff like that because the author thinks that playing music at lightpseed is cool. And thats all there is to it. It doesn't mean that the character isn't Lightspeed. Which is why it's silly to hear people bring up stuff like time dilation, and infinite mass when that stuff would just interfere with the author's ability to tell the story how he wants to. Thats all I really have to say about this. There are other small inconsequential arguments you hear from time to time like arguments pertaining to lasers in fiction and how they're often used carelessly but thats moot since Kizaru is clearly conveyed by the story to be lightspeed and isn't just a cheap trope that exists for cool effects. Other than that this video is Golden. Solid breakdown of the all the ridiculous claims against Kizaru.
@Emperor Luffy Just that Kizaru is "fast" for One Piece standards, when in reality any competent fighter should be able to react to him. He legit got blitzed by Shanks, so the whole "Admirals=Yonko" theory is bust, but people still act like Kizaru could do literally anything to Kaido or Big Mom lmao. I mean, this is the dude that backed down from getting a gun pointed at his head. Unless you wanna argue that flintlocks>lightspeed. Kizaru is fodder, he's only impressive because of his association with characters who have actual feats to back up these asinine, long winded powerscaling tangents. Kizaru himself is overrated, wouldn't be surprised if he lost to Green Bull lmao.
@@unfortunatecircumstances8870 Right any competent fighter should be able to react to him meaning they would be lightspeed and above. This isn't complicated. I never agreed with Admirals = Yonkou. The Yonkou were always portrayed as stronger. Why are you using troll arguments? You do realize that the speed and power of weaponry can be enhanced with Haki right? The maker of this video already did a video on the topic. Yes. Because you don't need feats to determine how strong someone is. The same way we knew that Shanks was powerful long before he had any feats. You can determine how strong a character is from the context of the story. If Kizaru wasn't powerful he wouldn't be an Admiral. If you want to troll please go somewhere else. I'm not interested in entertaining it.
@Emperor Luffy Lmao, what are you even arguing? The only lucid point you made was "haki can be infused into projectiles" everything else was just you whining about my opinion and calling me a troll. "Right, any competent fighter should be able to react to him, meaning they would be lightspeed and above." Exactly. Making Kizaru useless. "If Kizaru wasn't powerful, then he wouldn't be an Admiral" Yeah, just like how Buggy wouldn't be a Yonko if he didn't have the power for it. Lmao. Kizaru is featless fodder. Shanks has feats. He stopped the marineford war by turning up. He clashed with WB and split the sky. In RED, Shanks straight up blitzes Kizaru and holds him at swordpoint. He one-shots Kidd. What does Kizaru do? He.....gets kicked by Marco. He ties with a decrepit Silvers Rayleigh, who implies he could easily beat Kizaru and go help the strawhats with Kuma if he were in his Prime. He gets intimidated by Ben Beckmann lmao. His most impressive feat was him literally just suggesting that he go stop Kaido and Big Mom's duel, which is absolutely hilarious lol. Kizaru is fodder. Sorry if you just personally can't handle my opinion, but I don't really care. Just because he's lightspeed doesn't make him any less of a jobber.
I feel like anybody that downplays One Piece just hasn’t watched or read it. People try to say that One Piece characters are closer to My Hero tier rather than Naruto/Bleach tier. Mind blowing
I always thought "oh damn..if this man had Akainu's drive or like maybe even Smoker's drive, Kizaru would be scary....really really scary." Cause yer cool Magma and ice are sick but light? Kizaru is a Yellow Mellow Fellow ya know? Unclear what his role is still doe. Also the anime makes all this stuff look slow.
The problem with the Rayleigh statement is obviously that its most clearly translated incorrectly and contradicted by other characters statements and actions
I think logically, kizaru in light form is only speed of light, while normal kizaru can move faster due to no restrictions (no this doesn't mean his fruit holds him back, lasers are still a thing and will burn lots)
Kizaru in his Light form can still move Faster than Light speed even without the "Acceleration is Power" Statement, we see his Light attacks being able to dodged by Luffy, Kidd (Even Brook at one point), yet we also see them getting blitzed by his attacks way later on, this means from Saboady/Marineford we already had confirmation Kizaru's speed in Light Form wasn't stagnant
I agree with mostly everything, but there’s some things people should be aware of. 1. In the real world it doesn’t actually require infinite energy to move at light speed. There’s several reasons, but I’ll keep it short. The increase to mass comes from the speed, which is finite. So there’s no infinite factor in such an equation. Light itself has mass. “Light Speed” can be slightly slower or much faster than light. We have no real way to measure how fast light truly is as of yet. If we can somehow safely move at 99% there would be nothing stopping us from going faster. 99% being finite, while 1% is infinite makes no sense. Physics have many Theories, but there are many more things in are universe that can go against them and we have yet to understand why. 2. Replicated Elements in fiction are equal or greater than normal elements. Why, because they’re not bound by physics. They’re formed by meta physical forces and have unique characteristics. A light beam made by meta physical energy is equivalent to natural light in speed/properties, unless stated to be only light in name. Example would be Holy Beam stated being a pure energy beam that purifies instead of a light beam. But more often than not things are stated to have the same properties as actual elements. 3. Authors ALWAYS write with the intention of creating a world similar to ours, yet slightly different. This way we can relate to the characters. Thus the other common argument, “author making a similar yet different world to ours is wrong because it’s stupid”, is also incredibly incorrect. Many people online for some reason use actual legitimate story structures to make things sound plausible to manipulate people’s emotions/thoughts. Example would be Shonen or MC Plot Armor. Yes MCs win due to plot on their side. But only lose due to opponents having Plot Armor. Any character that wins or loses is solely due to Plot Armor. It doesn’t just apply to MCs. But this is just common sense for storytelling. Yet people break things down that far just to say MC wins are solely BS for plot, but anyone who beat MCs aren’t using Plot Armor themselves. People literally choose to ignore all other variables in order to downplay or make fun of series.
I specifically stated we have no true way to accurately measure the speed of light. Which isn’t the same as “Light Speed”. Since “Light Speed” has changed throughout history. Some believed it 313,000,000 m/s, others 300,000,000 m/s or 299,999,999 m/s. Even 299,792,458 m/s has been accepted. See how the relative observer’s calculations makes “Light Speed” slower or faster than light. As we still use older calculations today for different things. But even then all stated assumptions about how fast light is are still not accurate. As how we measure speed is distance/time. Since we can’t measure the exact time (even with the fastest cameras still) people use round trip to measure “Light Speed”. When light reflects off a reflective surface the photons become excited (proved by said beams cutting through objects). Meaning light could’ve been traveling faster in the return trip than the initial trip. As we have no way of knowing for certain. Thus light can be traveling faster than supposed “Light Speed”. Light being a constant isn’t “Fact”, it’s a “Convention”. Called the “Einstein Synchronization Convention”.
To say that kizuru is capped at light speed you would have to prove he doesn't have haki and his effort in his fight with Hawkins was the same amount of effort he put in his fight with Rayleigh, Marco, and Whitebeard which is obviously cap Btw I made a mistake in my last comment, I said that the raikage was able to see through sauske's genjutsu but in actuality sauske saw through the genjutsu they tried to put on him in his partner, I misinterpreted the chapter, sorry about that, however one thing I will say is that deidara was able to train his left eye to see through sauske's genjutsu in chapter 360, and if he can resist sauske's genjutsu with just his left eye (without any dojutsus btw) then I see no reason as to why character such as gojo, luffy, and hiei shouldn't be able to resist it as well, in fact this also means the Byakugan can see through genjutsu as well since it's way more efficient at perceiving things way better than even the sharingan as stated by Kakashi in chapter 78, so that pretty much puts an end to the whole rock lee with Byakugan vs shikamaru with sharingan debate as well, also I don't know if anyone knows this or if I'm just late to the party but the infinite tsukuyomi won't work on kizaru because it requires your body getting hit with the ray of light shining from the moon and since light does not have an electric charge one photon cannot interact with another photon this means that infinite tsukuyomi won't work on kizaru, also also people say that genjutsu would work on other verses because kaguya was able to put the world in an infinite tsukuyomi before they even had chakra but that was in a filler episode and I don't recall that ever happening in the manga so take that as you will I'm 99 percent confident in my research this time around, however, if anyone disagrees feel free to lay out your arguments down and we'll have a respectful debate
Luffy and Ivankov dodge a Pacifista laser at Marineford, and we explicitly see in one panel the beam middair halfway to Luffy and Ivankov before either bothered to dodge. So the argument for dodging before the laser fired doesn’t work, as both dodged long after the laser fired.
wait how do tons and real world weights and forces apply? the equation for f is f=ma but using the actual speed of light times the mass of any character would breed inf force meaning that the equation for force doesn't work. so mass and weights compared to real life dont even apply right?
27:15 you can make the argument Luffy stood up into the hit range. [all 3 beams were headshots level ] you see him standing implying he got into hit range [headshot level] the slipped all 3 shots. making him casually speed of light.
In that, he is even faster than light. If he can stand up, see the lasers, and move his head, all while the laser is already super close to Luffy, makes post-ts saobaody base luffy lightspeed+. and now a base luffy reacting to a lightspeed+ kaido in hybrid form makes luffy even more insanely fast, like lightspeed++, let alone Luffy's gear forms which could boost him to lightspeed+++++++
4:05 ain't no way people made an argument using real world physics vs anime logic, of course some real world logic to can applied to anime, but to use real world physics to debunk speed is ridiculous.
so does that mean kizaru's attacks(his ranged ones) are limited to light speed and that kizaru can only move at light speed when fight the similarly to how he was fighting Rayleigh
This is what I dont understand about powerscalers. It's so wildly inconsistent and no one bats an eye. Like you address that its fiction but then attempt to still apply real world math and logic with the calculations then once again ignore the consequences of applying that type of movement speed. Now i understand that the consequences differ with each author however if that's the case how do people compare? It just seems like a wild waste of time
Its crazy how people downplay Kizaru when he was ready to go to Onigashima and fight Kaido, big mom, and Luffy without any help. The admirals have that title for a reason, in no world does Luffy make light work of Kizaru nor would big mom or Kaido. The disrespect and downplaying of some top tiers is honestly astounding.
Hey remember when I said Luffy would obviously be outsped by Kizaru when they fought and everyone in here said this would clearly never happen and then they fought and Kizaru literally moves like 10 km before Luffy can dodge once? Craziest and most unforeseen outcome?
You’re points are completely valid except for one thing. The only thing I disagree with is the exemption of physics consequences. People moving at light speed should break the sound barrier instantly. If luffy can attack at light speed his attacks should cause a sonic boom on the spot. The reason why it should is the inclusion of moon walking or geppo in rokushiki m. If it is acknowledged in the show that moving fast enough you can push off of air if you move fast enough because you compress the air to the point it being a solid. This means you move at least sub speed of sound in a split second. If this applies to rokushiki then it applies to other movements at light speed or high speed. Just because some laws are broken such as zoro being so strong despite not being enormous and the fact that the setting is a fantasy should not allow an author to pick and choose what laws of physics they obey like a buffet. One piece is phenomenal but ftl characters not breaking the sound barrier is a contrivance plain and simple.
Well to that I say this, just simply watching kizaru would u think that he is light speed? It is clearly obvious that the authors intent is to make it known that his characters are at the very very least light speed. And honestly that’s all that really matters. I feel like people get so caught up in realistic aspects that they forget about wat the author himself is trying to say and wat they are literally putting in your face. I highly doubt that oda just sat down and thought about the laws of physics when writing kizaru or one piece in general. He wanted kizaru to be the literal element of light so that’s wat it is. I doubt he even graduated college having a science degree 🤷🏽♂️. For all we know the only reason why he made geppo have that effect is because it looked cool but since people with no devil fruits could use it, it might have been pretty confusing to regular viewers that think, “why is he flying in the air, he doesn’t even have a devil fruit” so in response to this, they needed a real world explanation that would somewhat make since. 👍🏽
There is a character that can teleport which is Blueno the guy that use door fruit. I forgor the name so i might be idiot or totally dumbass. Edit: oh yeah he said character that are reference in literally the intro im totally dumbass.
ok but that means they aren't travelling light speed. If they are travelling LS then they would about the force of travelling at LS in other words since they dont that means that smt as basic as f=ma doesn't even apply in their world and people who scale attacks using it are useless.
The reason why people think like this because of tik tok and false information from google. And rumors actually. Since I was a kid I view luffy as the weakest character in all anime. Because I thought that he is just rubber and that's all in him. Specially that my first anime that I watched is Dragon ball. Even my friend who watched anime before me don't know how strong one piece characters really is because of this false information going on around this world.
Is Kizaru just a better Enel? Sure Enel has a very destructive devil fruit capable of destroying entire islands at full power and the ability to move at the speed of lightning. But Kizaru has a devil fruit just as if not more destructive (Aokiji and Akainu straight up terraformed an entire island) not to mention that Kizaru's attacks move at the speed of light and Kizaru can move at the speed of light, which is faster faster lightning. So is the Lightning Devil Fruit outclassed by the Light Fruit?? And maybe the light fruit is better than every other DF? Also you should make a video talking about what you think are truly the best logias in OP.
I love Enel so much my man, but even his best destructive feat is unfortunately toothless due to Oda's apprehension of death. BUT if you want to do what I do and wank Enel, we can say he theoretically could move at Light Speed by travelling along radio waves, which we know he can tap into due to his fruit and observation haki. In my personal opinion the Light Logia does indeed outclass Enel's, in speed. There is an argument that Enel's fruit has the one of the highest Destructive Capacities, but I personally find Kizaru's more concentrated beams to be higher Attack Potency, which is more relevant in a serious fight in the OP world as it is.
@@biggimmicke Interesting take with Enels fruit. I remember hearing someone say that Enels fruit also gives him the power of electromagnetism because of the time he manipulated his gold staff and the gold on his ship and that because of it, he can essentially do anything. I sort of forgot the details but yeah, maybe in terms of speed and attack speed Kizaru wins but in terms of AP or just the power of the fruit in general, Enel edges out.
I don't know why people use statements from 3D2Y, that wasn't Oda's work, Strong World is a written by Oda himself and even that movie isn't considered canon, why people think 3D2Y is canon is beyond me
@@thelonecyborg3555 3d2y was written by Tatsuya Hamazaka the same guy who wrote the canon Ace light novel and aswell as the canon ace vivre cards. Toei asked oda if he would approve of the additions they were making for luffys character during the 3d2y time period and he agreed to it. if your super skeptical I’ll even go and find the link for u to show you the whole thing
@@NukeNuke1 again just because something is approved by Oda doesn't mean it's canon, their has been tons of movies and light novels that was approved by other anime authors and guess what, they're still non canon, 3d2y wasn't written by oda there for it's non canon, plain and simple
To be honest I’ve never been a big fan of anime power scaling. Characters are simply as fast as they need to be and as strong as they need to be to fit the narrative of the story, and nothing more. Now not every anime follows this trope, some take power scaling more seriously than others but I’ve found this to be the logic more often than not. It’s why comparing two verses is silly, and also a double edged sword because in order for “power” in anime to be “scaled”a slight sense of realism is necessary to be incorporated into the story. You actually said it yourself in the video “even if you knew absolutely nothing about fiction at all, by just watching or reading One Piece itself you realize that trying to actually use normal real world human limits to the fictional characters of the One Piece world makes no sense” and you are correct. But that’s the problem you see, by the exact same logic the opposite is also true, trying to scale fictional characters by using real world physics just doesn’t work because the speed of light in one universe can be completely different than the speed of light in a different universe. Not to mention authors will be inconsistent within their own works sometimes. I can’t think of any really good examples off the top of my head but if for example Luffy and Kaidp are throwing attacks that are faster than “light” and let’s say Mihawk is comparable to a Yonko in terms of speed and power, does this mean that a marineford Luffy is already faster than “light” because he’s dodging Mihawks sword swings? Or does this mean that Mihawk was just holding back? Or does it mean that Luffy was “as fast as he needed to be in that moment because writing” (which is the argument I always go with). This is the reason I don’t usually get into power scaling and just try to enjoy anime for what it is, good story and character progressions with nice action scenes and fights to compliment them. Yes characters are clearly getting stronger but I don’t tend to worry about “how strong is X character exactly in terms of raw numbers” it’s mostly about how they’ve grown as a character and how they play out against other characters within their own universe. I like to enjoy it for what it is without thinking about the messy details of scaling, if you get where I’m coming from :)
yes one piece characters are light speed, they can react and move at that speed, that being said the force generated from the light speed is not the same as real life light speed. if it was than drake would be dead. this attack would be 2.4*10^7 MJ if his leg is 7kg, that is 1/4 the power of the fat man nuke being 8.8 2.4*10^7 MJ. sabaody would be gone
Not just them, Hordy jones, Vergo, Dillinger, Hakuba, Cracker, Nijii (uses stealth without raid suit) Sanji with his raid suit, King, Marco (even in the anime rn is stalling King 1v1) Zoro (dodging an attack he says was “like a beam”) Honestly anyone stronger than not only post ts luffy but Final transformation Hordy. That’s how far back real speed feats go
@@user-li3tt8dh2j Basically, Hordy ended up becoming strong and fast enough to make luffy who previously called light slow, say that he’s “so fast” and could barely keep up
@@reesesxp6335 so... does that answer my question, im kinda bad at english. does that mean everyone who is faster than steroid hordy can move at lightspeed?
Actually the fact that the power system is this convoluted and innecesarily silly without any consistancy with logic or itself makes the manga so much worse (and I actually love it, but thanks to this i've lost a little of respect for the manga)
@@mohammad3904 yes bro but what i mean in other verses when there aren't any df blackbeard wouldn't absorb devil fruits powers and his boddy would be made of darkness
@@orioman7535 in one piece blackbeard with his logia can get attacked by physical attacks because he absorbs devil fruits abillitys in other verses he would still absorb people because he said back at banaro island darkness is gravity and in other verses his boddy would've been made of pure darkness nobody would beat him except zeno
@@Habesh778 yes but how can you improve literal "light" sure your movement speed may be faster but how do you improve something that has reached its limit
so Kizaru can move at speed of light but still only with the activation of the fruit everytime we see him being crazy ass fast he transformed into light when he was far away from XDrake we literally saw him transforming to light and materialize right before him when he kicked Hawkins his foot was like transformed into light against Rayleigh we didnt saw such things and in that fight he wasnt faster at all therefore my conclusion is, that he actually has to activate the fruit to move at this speed or what do you want also where we see something like above lightspeed in OnePiece (I only want a single feat, but I dont see it) based on feats we saw I cant believe he can move faster than light also we didnt see any feats of characters really being faster than light every such feat is a reaction time feat and no moving speed feat also likely at most of these feats there was future sight haki what makes these feats simply less impressive
Ichiji and Marco both have moving lightspeed feats. For marco you might say it was cause of future sight (even though its unconfirmed that he has it), ichiji outsped his own light bullets which he wouldnt use FS for
“every such feat is a reaction time feat and no moving speed feat ” Luffy dodging a Pacifista laser in chapter 508 was as much a movement speed feat as it was a reaction feat, since he jumped a distance comparable or greater than how far the laser traveled.
This guy debunk himself he said chakra doesn't move at light speed, It's like saying their Magma release is not hot because it's chakra that turned into magma but that's not true and if chakra can aquire property of magma then it can also aquire property of Light. Databook state the same statement that gale style or storm release whatever you call it is light speed and that's not average gale style it's itself is light and furthermore enhance by SO6P's chakra. If SO6P's chakra multiply their power and speed prime example is Sasuke, he gets blitz by Madara then blitzing Madara. If you are going to say Light pure light travel faster than Light even in anime you are stupid, Kizaru maybe physically faster than light but not in his light form. The aim dodging is still true for Luffy he know where attack is going to land and moved himself but I am not saying he is not light speed, Chopper also predicted the path of his attack. Sanji blitz queen who fought against Marco the same Marco who was clashing with Kizaru furthermore he travelled faster than light and saved someone.
ok seriously no, this need to put every anime character under the sun into lightspeed category every time there is a freaking beam dodged on the screen need to stop for fuck sake I have seen people trying to argue that link from the legend of zelda is lightspeed ! even though to be fair kizaru seems to really fit into it at first glance but here's the thing if kizaru is lighspeed, and since lightspeed is just insanely, I repeat INSANELY broken speed, why isn't he the strongest in the verse bare none ? the answer would be, well because other character can counter his lighspeed they are at this tier themselve ! then another question, the most important one why.would.they.need.boats ? in an anime about travelling the world why the top tiers character of the verse would'nt travel CONSTANTLY at lightspeed to do whatever the fuck they want to do at the instant ? you would have pirates and admirals doing fights like the one from DB GT where super c17 and goku SSJ 4 fight between continents constantly, since it would take them practically no time, the world of one piece would be a constant war zone with insane fight moving from distant isles to distant isles and no the silly excuse " huh travel time is different actually it doesn't count " is just plain stupid a character can react to lighspeed, DODGE lighspeed but suddendly can't travel at the same lightspeed ? how conveniant but that's not how basic logics work it would be like showing frieza first form easily destroying a planet then having him not try to destroy namek against goku SSJ without reason even though he can do it, if you give a character cosmic power you stick to it kizaru can't be lighspeed because either he become just too strong for this kind of story or the characters are just as strong but loose all coherence with how they would and should use their insanely broken power, because that's what lighspeed is lighspeed is like time travel, it sound impressive and badass to have a character with that power but if the setting and character action, stakes and motivations doesn't keep up then it just fuck up everything coherent about the story also is it just me or does kizaru always become physical again just before attacking ? that would make far more sense as to why he would be lightspeed ( in travel ) but still dodgeable by other characters
the camera bulma makes which is claims is “hypersonic” and the flying nimbus doesn’t run on a persons power it flies itself depending on how good of a person the person on it is. You’re trying to limit all types of speed to travel when even that doesn’t matter cause doflamingo has an attack that can move from two different islands in seconds and luffy easily dodges that same attack. You Dbz fans are honestly weird cause if someone is stronger than raditz they’re ftl, Krillin especially after getting his potential unlocked was stronger than him but when flying on a “tiny planet” all excited at his new found powers he still says it would take him HOURS to get back to gohan. Where’s your suspension of disbelief for those moments genius? Hell I could talk about how some of you will say “iF tHey WeRe LigHtsPeEd tHey’d fLy AroUnd ThE WorLd 7 tImeS iN a SeCond” but a SCARED of beerus vegeta was tasked with flying around (with a radar) to find the dragon balls and wasn’t back…..Let’s say a minute even tho that’s me being generous, he should’ve got to them instantly from each spot (since he can fly around the world 7 times in a second) and be back within 30-45 seconds at least….
"in an anime about travelling the world why the top tiers character of the verse would'nt travel CONSTANTLY at lightspeed to do whatever the fuck they want to do at the instant ?" as i see, there are two plausible possibilities: first one, all insane speed feats are due to scaling, so if i were you, i'd not take everything so seriously, since most of these calculations do not correspond to Oda's perception of things in One Piece (he had already stated that Sanji is supersonic, which does not make sense, basically he is bad at writing power levels) ; second possibility, the boats serve as a narrative device only, which might sounds ridiculous, but overral not impossible, since One Piece is heavily inspired by "Dragon Ball" and other classics shonen series, which all are commonly known for using similliar narrative devices. Of course, there may be other reasons, out of my point of view.
Of course it's silly to scale one piece characters as FTL or equal to LS. Imagine Marineford if any character could propel himself at light speed to get to ace under a second... It does not work. It's a silly world where people can grab lightnings and make them rubber as they touch it. A world where magma is consider as one of the hottest thing when blue fire is supposed to be hotter. Where rubber don't burn to a 200,000,000 volts thunderbolt... You say we shouldn't limit the charachters to the human limits, it's the same for physics. The story needs to put a limit to those things so it keeps being interesting. Same for lightbeams, if chopper does not avoid it, he dies. It's written so he doesn't die. If someone get really kicked at light speed, he explodes, if not then why does the guns even deal damage to the characters ? I mean, you're not wrong to say they should but they don't because the world makes no sens whatsoever if they do. They would not travel with boats because they can run at LS in the air at some point, they would not try to avoid meteores or bullet cause they can whistand FTL kicks, they would just punch their way through the redline instead of going under, etc... Oda is no mathematician, he's a good writer who likes to mix well prepared events and fresh ideas. He's not doing calculation about the physics of his manga.
How do we know that light speed in One Piece is the same as light speed in real life? Pretimeskip Luffy already surpasses One Piece lightspeed by dodging attacks from Foxy, Kizaru has to be much faster to be remotely relevant.
I don't think you have a good grasp on aimdodging, nor do you really address it. Haki isn't necessary for aimdodging at all. It helps, of course, it's precognition. But you don't need it to dodge things. I have played laser tag without getting hit, but this doesn't make me lightspeed. Secondly, you're abandoning one conclusion for being too ridiculous to then jump to a massively more extreme conclusion. Chopper is "too tired" and "too distracted" to notice someone getting ready to fire, so therefore he's moving thousands of times faster and exerting tens of thousands of times more effort to do so? If I saw a cowboy duck behind cover to avoid gunshots, I wouldn't conclude that he's bullet timing because he's tired and injured. Thirdly, you jump between kinds of speed without realizing it. You say that Kaido must be lightspeed because Luffy can use Haki to avoid lasers, but not Kaido. I think the obvious difference between these two is that Kaido is a person who's capable of Haki and non-linear movement, and a laser isn't. Similarly, if you had perfect precognition, you could probably avoid gunshots pretty reliably, but you couldn't avoid Mike Tyson. Fourthly, you simultaneously flip back and forth between saying that the anime has non-literal timing for dramatic effect, but also that it's literal and can be analyzed frame-by-frame to see that Luffy is light-timing. Then, on top of that, you also go ahead and say the anime is non-canon anyways? Or its dialogue is, at least. I don't know what the difference is. They're both produced by Toei. Fifthly, you can't simultaneously hold that "real physics don't apply" while also deriving your value for the speed of light from "real physics". Well, you can, but this isn't a very strong or consistent position. Informally fallacious more than anything, I'd guess. Sixthly, and this is more minor, but can't Kizaru's "lightspeed kick" just be... the lightspeed kicking lasers that he has? Why did you mention that he can shoot blasts of light from his feet and then just assume that his charged up sole can only possibly represent a literal "kick"? Why not go even further, and assume he just turned his leg into light? Seventh, what exactly is the purpose of Kizaru having a lightspeed fruit if he's just faster than it anyways? Eighth, what is the narrative purpose of Kizaru and his fruit if he's just surpassed in the only gimmick it has? The reason "light" is brought up as a measuring stick in the first place is because it's "the fastest thing possible". I'm not saying it's impossible for them to become faster, or that it'll never happen, but having it happen unceremoniously and with no comment would be extremely bizarre, to say the least. Is One Piece usually known for having bad writing?
"Thirdly, you jump between kinds of speed without realizing it. You say that Kaido must be lightspeed because Luffy can use Haki to avoid lasers, but not Kaido." Thats not what he said at all. Luffy proved himself to be faster than lasers but Kaido proved to be even faster than that when he blitzed Luffy. Theres no contradiction here. "Fifthly, you can't simultaneously hold that "real physics don't apply" while also deriving your value for the speed of light from "real physics". " -Thats not his argument. He's not saying that real physics don't apply he said the consequences of physics are gonna different depending on the author's preferences. Which is correct. Most authors who have characters move at LS are not going to have the planet be destroyed when they do so. "Seventh, what exactly is the purpose of Kizaru having a lightspeed fruit if he's just faster than it anyways?" -Thats not really the point of the pika pika no mi. It's a Light Logia. Not merely a lightspeed fruit. The problem with this thinking is that it assumes the Lightspeed feature is the only one that matters. It's not. The Nature of the Logia and everything he can do with Light are what makes him dangerous. Not merely his speed. Edit: Small correction. After reviewing the video your claims about the anime are also erroneous. Even if you didn't accept the evidence from the anime he clearly provided the manga instead showing that there wasn't anything inconsistent.
I don't think any of this assessment is accurate. I think you should watch the video again and listen carefully. He already clearly addressed all of this.
@@emperorluffy6001 "Thats not what he said at all." I mean, it kinda is? The main reason he brings up Kaido as a talking point is to say that even if Luffy used Haki to avoid the Pacifista beam, Kaido would still have to be faster than the beam to blitz him (and from there, Luffy is faster than Kaido). If he was just saying "Light < Luffy < Kaido < Luffy" it'd convey the same end result but it'd also be a redundant and unnecessary argument. My issue with that reasoning is that it doesn't follow. Precognition against a linear attack being fired by a presumed peer in speed does not translate into precognition working against a skilled opponent who is also your physical better. This is why I made the analogy about bullets and Mike Tyson. "He's not saying that real physics don't apply" There isn't an actual difference between "physics don't apply" and "the consequences of an action don't apply". Physics is defined by its consequences. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to determine what they are in the first place. This is basically tantamount to saying "he's not saying that f=ma doesn't apply, just that if you multiply mass and acceleration it doesn't equal force". "The Nature of the Logia and everything he can do with Light are what makes him dangerous. Not merely his speed." This is obviously ridiculous. Logia is dangerous on its own, yes, but the characters have plenty of counters to Logia users. Kizaru is not the only Logia user to exist, nor is he the first one they'll ever (presumably) beat. The obvious main advantage of the light fruit is that it lets Kizaru move at lightspeed. This is why he literally constantly mentions the fact that he can move at the speed of light. If his actual power was "intangible to non-Haki users" the fruit would be no more useful than any other random Logia fruit. You can say that the real advantage is that it has projectiles (which, again, so do other Logia fruits), but then these projectiles are again only deadly because they can move at the speed of light. If they could be easily avoided it wouldn't matter.
@@joshuaraymer1705 "If he was just saying "Light < Luffy < Kaido < Luffy" " -That is what he was saying. Theres no contradiction. Kaido in their first meeting was faster than Luffy but then Luffy grew to be fast enough to keep up with Kaido's strongest form. This is canon. "Precognition against a linear attack being fired by a presumed peer in speed does not translate into precognition working against a skilled opponent who is also your physical better." -Except in One Piece thats never been shown to be the case? So it's a redundant analogy. Observation is effective regardless of whether the attack is linear or not. This is moot. "There isn't an actual difference between "physics don't apply" and "the consequences of an action don't apply". " -There is, you're just playing a word game here. He even provided examples proving his point. "The obvious main advantage of the light fruit is that it lets Kizaru move at lightspeed." -No it isn't. Again, thats just one of many advantages. "This is why he literally constantly mentions the fact that he can move at the speed of light." -Except this is false because Kizaru only mentions it once.
Holy shit is this real? someone FINALLY debunks all the downplay about Kizaru? Bro we needed this back in 2009 where were you? lol.
Let me ask you something, what is the speed value of light in One Piece verse.
@@henryboussamba6058 movement speed ends at light speed, reaction and combat speed high FTL to low FTL+.
@@somanchipranav1964 Fax
@@henryboussamba6058 Thats about as dumb as asking how wet is the water in the One Piece verse. Or how hot is fire in One Piece.
@@jonnjones8263 Isn't One Piece a fictional universe
Imagine if logia actually limited your speed to the corresponding element. Akainu moving at magma speed just sliding around marineford and whitebeard casually walking away.
Let me ask you something, what is the speed value of light in One Piece verse.
@@henryboussamba6058 same as speed of normal light in vacum
That's a really funny image, now imagine Aokiji with the speed of a glacier moving. Not an avalanche, a glacier. The man would have woken up, and before he stood up fully, the Marineford War would've been done 50 years ago.
@@Deode-d4h Except his fruit isn't the ice fruit but the chilly-chilly fruit and the speed of cold or rather heat is essentially light speed so he'd be as fast as kizaru, but yes it would be funny if users of the fruit just turned into ice statues.
@@henryboussamba6058 you can look at it from two angles, either you say given the lack of contradictory evidence you assume it's the same as ours or you can point out that several charachters move faster than the speed of light based of distance traveled over a span of time and that those charachter can still see each other and say it's faster.
I am not sure why it is so difficult for people to believe that Kizaru has light speed travel speed and FTL combat speed. They are not the same.
light speed travel is fine but FTL combat speed is stupid.
kizaru light speed travel is because he turns himself into light when travelling.
variables liek Observation Haki, Battle experience, also matter, the problem with you anime fans is you never played any sports and dont udnerstand well enough.
@@wdadwdwdwadw8604 What the fuck does sports have to do with a fantasy series?
@@wdadwdwdwadw8604 Light Speed travel speed being plausible as he can use his light form to travel a considerable distance.
Him being FTL+-MFTL in combat is because of the literal context of the anime where there are no signs showing that a person can have Limitations.
Logia Devil Fruit users doesn't have a limit on their speed, so does Zoan and Paramecia Devil Fruit users. So why do we suddenly cap people like Kizaru and Enel to their respective element speed when the show explicitly shows that There's no such thing as a Limitation when it comes to both Power and Speed?
See?._. It's annoying.
Especially narutotard fans they say he is not light speed lol
@@islamardjoune1042 bruh they don't say he isn't light speed they say he isn't ftl
30:30 i love how you curb stomp people with your evidence and good points
The only physical limit I'm annoyed by is the fact that people, when hit by an object with Infinite Energy (Kizaru's leg having an infinite mass when moving at light speed, and therefore infinite energy because KE = mv^2) aren't deatomized in a nuclear explosion. Kizaru is by far the strongest character in One Piece if you include real world physics.
Well, I really hate to be that guy, but technically if moving AT light speed is super dangerous, then getting hit by opponents by Ichiji who can clearly move *faster* than light would mean they're equally devastating if not more, no? Bc throwing punches at FtL is definitely a minimum for Admiral/Yonko status yeah?
@@biggimmicke I mean maybe but I was limiting the discussion to Kizaru. I feel like he should be the only one able to operate at those speeds but clearly that's not the case unless Ichiji's beams are slower than the speed of light.
@@legoman7041 I 100% get where you were coming from and if I'm being transparent I'm just trying to stem conversation and I didn't want anyone to say it before i did lmao, good point tho my b
@@legoman7041 oda has made a point that hella characters definitely move over light speeds. This is just a thing in anime/manga period it’s literally in basically most forms of fiction they don’t follow irl rules
@@Reallyjoyboyfr I guess so but I feel like if he gave someone the Pika Pika no Mi then no one else should be able to achieve that. Kinda like how nobody can grab Shadows like Moria can. Because of his Devil Fruit.
maah boy out here spitting facts
Nearly had a stroke lol
The legend is back
Ayyye
I started this video with the expectation that you would throughly debunk the bad arguments against kizaru and ftl one piece and was not dissapointed, this video is amazing it adresses every argument I have heard against the light speed meta in one piece and throughly destroyed the narative that one piece is capped at light speed.
One thing that kept me thinking that Luffy was lightspeed when I first got into One Piece was him being repeatedly tagged by Kizaru at Marineford, especially since he was tagged in his fastest gear at the time.
Having gone back through Marineford and recalling the events of Impel Down, there is an in story reason for Luffy being hit by lightspeed attacks despite having several laser dodging feats up to that point. From the numerous high tier enemies repeatedly attacking Luffy, and the fact that he was still recovering from his fights in Impel Down, and the fact that his body was crashing from Ivankov’s hormone injection, the Marineford Luffy that Kizaru was tagging was nerfed compared to his regular strength and speed.
I think you still have a slight misconception going on as well though. Kizaru is an Admiral, literally one of the highest tiered characters in the series. His attacks are not limited to only light speed my friend. Luffy being tagged by Kizaru makes complete sense even in the context of the story now, just like how Steinixos said, he's a human AND a light man, light speed is just his BASE for his abilities, but we know DF users can push their abilities further, again as Steinixos pointed out. I agree Luffy was overwhlemed, but don't do this to yourself to undersell both Kizaru and Luffy.
There are 3 things about Kizaru and Luffy.
The times that Kizaru hit Luffy were when Luffy was either mid air or off guard/busy with another fight.
Kizaru has also been confirmed to have Observation Haki which allow him to predict Luffys movements as well.
Lastly, Luffy in the pre timeskip is in the Relativistic tiers of speed. So Kizaru hitting him still would make sense.
“ Kizaru is an Admiral, literally one of the highest tiered characters in the series. His attacks are not limited to only light speed my friend.”
I don’t disagree, I certainly think scaling from Rayleigh and Wano Luffy that Kizaru’s combat speed would be massively faster than light.
In the case of Marineford though it primarily seems like Kizaru was tagging Luffy with his light based speed. At least 3 times Kizaru kicks Luffy, all of them using his light based kick like he used with Hawkins, and at least 2 times Kizaru uses his laser, once to pierce a tired Luffy on the ground and later on to destroy the key to Ace’s cuffs in Luffy’s hand.
It's mainly because Luffy was only LS in terms of reactions. You can see in Chapter 566 when Kizaru blitzes Luffy, Luffy is still clearly able to react but he's not fast enough to dodge. The immense exhaustion also plays a role but this discrepancy is mostly due to a different in speed types. Luffy didn't have LS combat speed pre timeskip. He only had LS reactions. Thats what people keep getting confused.
@@emperorluffy6001 yeah it is calced to couple of cc,12% or so light speed or low relativistic.
Its weird how they want to limit one characters but never want to limit their verses
Let me ask you something, what is the speed value of light in One Piece verse.
@@henryboussamba6058 186,000 miles/sec
@Hendrixx YT what?
@Hendrixx YT "the speed of light isn't faster than the speed of light"
Damn I just realized how much big of a feat hajurdin showed, 10,000 metric tons to pounds is roughly 22,000,000 which is absolutely insane and this is even mare of a feat considering mach vise also had gravity on his side. Don’t know how to calculate how much more force that would be, but I assume a considerable amount.
it is 3911780426.4j, and that is literally a the force of one ton of tnt!
You gotta be one of the smartest powerscalers. I consider myself really well versed in one piece powerscaling yet ive still learned a couple things from watching your videos that are crucial towards powerscaling.
He is the smartest…ONE PIECE scaler, but his knowledge of outside anime seems limited.
@E r i c Thompson You are slow 🤷
Glad you reposted this!
Yeah. I saw an exceedingly silly comment that I needed to address. thats why I needed to re-upload
@@Steinixos Yeah, I forgot that some people try to use 3d2y to attack FTL One Piece. I’m glad that you also addressed that part, since now I know for a fact that they completely took it out of context.
Thank you so much. It feels very obvious to me who has and has not actually read the entirety of the story when people start debating Speed in OP. We all know it doesn't make any sense for him to be able to kick someone with infinite mass, but that doesn't stop Oda from doing any of the many, many other impossible things in this story. Also, who would want to read a boring, predictable story like that? Oda's random, weird, real-world breaking powers is what makes this series so awesome.
The manga makes it explicitly clear where the light speed barrier is. Plenty of PreTS *reaction* feats, but very few actual instances of FtL. Kaido and Luffy's combat speed are FtL, if not Massively Faster than light based on downplayed scaling alone. Kizaru is an admiral on a similar level to the Yonko. Why would he be CAPPED at light speed and not his minimum? Powerscalers out here really accepting Goku and Vegeta can break dimensions by shouting a little hard yet start wetting the bed about One Piece speeds not being accurate to the real world.
"Powerscalers out here really accepting Goku and Vegeta can break dimensions by shouting a little hard yet start wetting the bed about One Piece speeds not being accurate to the real world."
FACTS. The double standards are insane. Hell theres Faster than Light FISH in Toriko but you don't see anybody going "Oh but in the real world..." It's BS. Cope arguments used to downplay.
Especially naruto power scalers dude, there was this one guy, who said Kizaru doesn't fire beams at the speed of light JUST because attack speed is lower than movement speed. The fuck?
@@emperorluffy6001 I know, Naruto fans are the most annoying in power scaling,Cause at least DBZ fans don't say,"WELL ITS NOT REALISTIC So ITS NOT TRUE"
@@AndryR2022 Facts. They deny Kizaru while trying to push Naruto as FTL. is nonsense.
It's because Kizaru is a boring clown who hardly does anything. Do you really think the dude who got threatened by a gun is realistically lightspeed? Even if he is legit, his feats make Kizaru look like a jobber and you need other character's feats to even make Kizaru relevant.
Can't wait to watch this since you seem to have everything in order.
btw love your channel my man, going to do my part to try and boost engagement and show my homies the gospel you spreading over here!
Thanks a lot man
@@Steinixos Tbh it's just convenient to have a quick video to reference, and thanks to your handy editing I can clearly pull up their exact counterarguments. Keep doing the good work my man!
Those Last Two Arguments Are The Ones I Mainly Deal With When Debating; “Kizaru Capping At LS” And “One Piece Characters Can’t Move At LS Because Of That Rayleigh Statement”
Nothing Urks My Nerves More Than That Because The People Arguing That Are Obviously Just Doing Whatever They Can To Downplay The Speed Of One Piece Characters. Calling Kizaru And The Pacifista’s Lasers Not LS Is Another Argument I Hear A Lot Too🤦🏾♂️
Keep Pumping Out These Great Videos And Spread The Gospel Of The True Strength Of One Piece Characters 🙏🏾❤️
Tbh I just tell them they are taking things out of context because Rayleigh literally blind folds luffy so he's not even talking about looking at the light he telling you to sense it before it comes
@@wyzeinfinity7243 the fight btw rayleigh and kizaru back at sabaody was just opening
What end up with these discussion is you end up disappointing with how Oda underuse him. Kizaru is just a roadblock, not narrative. faster you accept that faster kizaru can stop carry your autis expectation.
the fuck with how you type
Lol kizaru looks high 24/7
I have to say:
I Just Love it when you say "now, for the Sake of Argument"😂🤣😂🤣
Let me ask you something, what is the speed value of light in One Piece verse.
@@henryboussamba6058 ratio
to addition to rayleight statement debunk, in orginal japanise he says that normal humans can't percive invisible things and thats all
The goat with the facts
if you think about it, since kizaru's leg is simply made of light, and therefore has no mass, him kicking someone wouldn't have like, infinite power or something. it would either just be the energy imparted on them via the light hitting them, or just kizaru's haki
Yep,kizaru is light speed in movement speed,and FTL in both combat speed and reaction speed
For the madara's light fang not being light speed,it is light speed cuz it is stated to be light speed,the same is with laser circus etc that are specifically stated to move at light speed.
Same is with raikage being light speed as stated 3 whole times.
And the same is with black clover attacks cuz they are stated to be light speed,licht is light speed.
I simply agree with this comment. If it’s stated to be light-speed. It’s light speed. Regardless of calcs pixel scans or rhetoric
I honestly don't disagree that Light Fang and Raikage are light speed. I do concede that point to Naruto fans during these types of arguments. However, I dislike it when they say that "Kizaru is light so his MAX should be lightspeed."
I am pretty sure an average human from One Piece wouldn't be classified as a ''Homo Sapiens Sapiens'' if they isekai'd to our world. They have Fishmen, Giant, and who knows what genome is in their DNA.
The same goes for any verse where humans commonly (or used to, like Pokemon) bang with non-human races.
Great video as always steinixos
Are you going to do more verse with admiral against other anime universe like black clover, dragon ball, bleach and etc.
Are you excited for last saga of one piece lol ?
Ummm yeah. I gotta do a re-read of bleach before I start putting them in battles
And yup very excited for the last saga of one piece
Ok ignoring my last comment I think the video is perfect as is. I initially thought that some people were right when they mentioned stuff about the anime but after re-examining the video not only is there nothing at conflict with the manga but you even explicitly use the manga regarding Chopper dodging the laser while exhausted to further prove your point that there was no aim dodging involved. I should have listened to your words more carefully. I don't think there are any points in this video that are refutable if you're actually listening closely. A lot of people who respond have a bad habit of selective listening where they hear what they want to or reinterpret something you've said in the own heads. This has happened to me too so I want people to be aware of that when they're responding. Steinixos is a meticulous guy who likes to break down every possible argument and chances are he has already addressed whatever point you want to bring up.
That being said I thought everything was pretty well handled. I know you already shut it down utterly and completely but the fact that people even USE the ordinary human limits argument to this day still blows my mind.
The Kizaru needing the Yata Mirror arguments is crap I've debunked constantly but I still hear it all the time. It's a cope argument. Not to mention it blatantly ignores all the moments we clearly see Kizaru moving around as light while NOT using it. Like him appearing in front of Whitebeard during the war(Chapter 553) and when he casually blitzed Luffy as Light(Chapter 566) etc.
A couple points I'd like to add in regards to Fiction & Physics.
Seththeprogrammer has a great video that goes over this, in his How Strong is Kratos video. Basically fans of God of War always ask why can Kratos has the strength to fight all this gods but still struggle with opening a chest in the game. And the author makes it clear that there are concessions you have to make when writing a story. If Kratos did everything at that sort of strength then you couldn't play the game. Basically what the author is saying here is that Kratos is that strong but they can't always show that level of strength because it interferes with the gameplay.
It's the same thing in storytelling. If a character is faster than light or can punch a planet to dust you're not gonna see them cause that kind of destruction all the time because it interferes with the author's ability to tell the story. A good example of this was in the TV show Smallville Documentary where they were explaining how they created the effects for Superman's speed(if anyone remembers this Documentary please link me because I can't seem to find it anywhere) when they were explaining the effects of him being supersonic they explained that if Clark actually moved that fast the sonic booms they created would cause shockwaves and destroy whatever room he was in. But they wanted him to zip in and out of rooms without a trace. So you know what they did? They just ignored it. If theres an aspect of physics that interferes with how an author wants to tell the story, they're just going to ignore it. Clark is still clearly supersonic in the show. It's just that all aspects of physics that aren't need to tell the story aren't going to be taken into consideration.
Thats how it is with lightspeed. In the Manga Medaka Box the Main character Medaka plays the drums at Lightspeed to create a unique sound. Things like infinite mass aren't taken into consideration for stuff like that because the author thinks that playing music at lightpseed is cool. And thats all there is to it. It doesn't mean that the character isn't Lightspeed. Which is why it's silly to hear people bring up stuff like time dilation, and infinite mass when that stuff would just interfere with the author's ability to tell the story how he wants to.
Thats all I really have to say about this. There are other small inconsequential arguments you hear from time to time like arguments pertaining to lasers in fiction and how they're often used carelessly but thats moot since Kizaru is clearly conveyed by the story to be lightspeed and isn't just a cheap trope that exists for cool effects. Other than that this video is Golden. Solid breakdown of the all the ridiculous claims against Kizaru.
Scale all you want, Kizaru still hardly has any feats whatsoever.
@@unfortunatecircumstances8870 Which changes nothing...but ok. lol.
@Emperor Luffy Just that Kizaru is "fast" for One Piece standards, when in reality any competent fighter should be able to react to him. He legit got blitzed by Shanks, so the whole "Admirals=Yonko" theory is bust, but people still act like Kizaru could do literally anything to Kaido or Big Mom lmao.
I mean, this is the dude that backed down from getting a gun pointed at his head. Unless you wanna argue that flintlocks>lightspeed. Kizaru is fodder, he's only impressive because of his association with characters who have actual feats to back up these asinine, long winded powerscaling tangents. Kizaru himself is overrated, wouldn't be surprised if he lost to Green Bull lmao.
@@unfortunatecircumstances8870 Right any competent fighter should be able to react to him meaning they would be lightspeed and above. This isn't complicated. I never agreed with Admirals = Yonkou. The Yonkou were always portrayed as stronger.
Why are you using troll arguments? You do realize that the speed and power of weaponry can be enhanced with Haki right? The maker of this video already did a video on the topic.
Yes. Because you don't need feats to determine how strong someone is. The same way we knew that Shanks was powerful long before he had any feats. You can determine how strong a character is from the context of the story. If Kizaru wasn't powerful he wouldn't be an Admiral. If you want to troll please go somewhere else. I'm not interested in entertaining it.
@Emperor Luffy Lmao, what are you even arguing? The only lucid point you made was "haki can be infused into projectiles" everything else was just you whining about my opinion and calling me a troll.
"Right, any competent fighter should be able to react to him, meaning they would be lightspeed and above." Exactly. Making Kizaru useless.
"If Kizaru wasn't powerful, then he wouldn't be an Admiral" Yeah, just like how Buggy wouldn't be a Yonko if he didn't have the power for it. Lmao.
Kizaru is featless fodder. Shanks has feats. He stopped the marineford war by turning up. He clashed with WB and split the sky. In RED, Shanks straight up blitzes Kizaru and holds him at swordpoint. He one-shots Kidd.
What does Kizaru do? He.....gets kicked by Marco. He ties with a decrepit Silvers Rayleigh, who implies he could easily beat Kizaru and go help the strawhats with Kuma if he were in his Prime. He gets intimidated by Ben Beckmann lmao. His most impressive feat was him literally just suggesting that he go stop Kaido and Big Mom's duel, which is absolutely hilarious lol.
Kizaru is fodder. Sorry if you just personally can't handle my opinion, but I don't really care. Just because he's lightspeed doesn't make him any less of a jobber.
Already know this gon be peak
I feel like anybody that downplays One Piece just hasn’t watched or read it. People try to say that One Piece characters are closer to My Hero tier rather than Naruto/Bleach tier. Mind blowing
I always thought "oh damn..if this man had Akainu's drive or like maybe even Smoker's drive, Kizaru would be scary....really really scary." Cause yer cool Magma and ice are sick but light? Kizaru is a Yellow Mellow Fellow ya know?
Unclear what his role is still doe.
Also the anime makes all this stuff look slow.
Thank you for going as far as debunking a lot of nitpicks that most people wouldn't even bother.
The problem with the Rayleigh statement is obviously that its most clearly translated incorrectly and contradicted by other characters statements and actions
I think logically, kizaru in light form is only speed of light, while normal kizaru can move faster due to no restrictions (no this doesn't mean his fruit holds him back, lasers are still a thing and will burn lots)
Sounds like a pretty shit DF ability then
Kizaru in his Light form can still move Faster than Light speed even without the "Acceleration is Power" Statement, we see his Light attacks being able to dodged by Luffy, Kidd (Even Brook at one point), yet we also see them getting blitzed by his attacks way later on, this means from Saboady/Marineford we already had confirmation Kizaru's speed in Light Form wasn't stagnant
Damn you even made recontexualize luffy amongst the big 3. Hes not as weak as I thought compared to them
I agree with mostly everything, but there’s some things people should be aware of.
1. In the real world it doesn’t actually require infinite energy to move at light speed. There’s several reasons, but I’ll keep it short. The increase to mass comes from the speed, which is finite. So there’s no infinite factor in such an equation. Light itself has mass. “Light Speed” can be slightly slower or much faster than light. We have no real way to measure how fast light truly is as of yet. If we can somehow safely move at 99% there would be nothing stopping us from going faster. 99% being finite, while 1% is infinite makes no sense. Physics have many Theories, but there are many more things in are universe that can go against them and we have yet to understand why.
2. Replicated Elements in fiction are equal or greater than normal elements. Why, because they’re not bound by physics. They’re formed by meta physical forces and have unique characteristics. A light beam made by meta physical energy is equivalent to natural light in speed/properties, unless stated to be only light in name. Example would be Holy Beam stated being a pure energy beam that purifies instead of a light beam. But more often than not things are stated to have the same properties as actual elements.
3. Authors ALWAYS write with the intention of creating a world similar to ours, yet slightly different. This way we can relate to the characters. Thus the other common argument, “author making a similar yet different world to ours is wrong because it’s stupid”, is also incredibly incorrect. Many people online for some reason use actual legitimate story structures to make things sound plausible to manipulate people’s emotions/thoughts.
Example would be Shonen or MC Plot Armor. Yes MCs win due to plot on their side. But only lose due to opponents having Plot Armor. Any character that wins or loses is solely due to Plot Armor. It doesn’t just apply to MCs. But this is just common sense for storytelling. Yet people break things down that far just to say MC wins are solely BS for plot, but anyone who beat MCs aren’t using Plot Armor themselves. People literally choose to ignore all other variables in order to downplay or make fun of series.
you cant make light go faster than light speed
i want the study that says this lol
I specifically stated we have no true way to accurately measure the speed of light. Which isn’t the same as “Light Speed”. Since “Light Speed” has changed throughout history. Some believed it 313,000,000 m/s, others 300,000,000 m/s or 299,999,999 m/s. Even 299,792,458 m/s has been accepted. See how the relative observer’s calculations makes “Light Speed” slower or faster than light. As we still use older calculations today for different things.
But even then all stated assumptions about how fast light is are still not accurate. As how we measure speed is distance/time. Since we can’t measure the exact time (even with the fastest cameras still) people use round trip to measure “Light Speed”. When light reflects off a reflective surface the photons become excited (proved by said beams cutting through objects).
Meaning light could’ve been traveling faster in the return trip than the initial trip. As we have no way of knowing for certain. Thus light can be traveling faster than supposed “Light Speed”. Light being a constant isn’t “Fact”, it’s a “Convention”. Called the “Einstein Synchronization Convention”.
@@Jotarosson “On The Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies” by Albert Einstein. This is the study explaining why it’s a convention and not fact.
To say that kizuru is capped at light speed you would have to prove he doesn't have haki and his effort in his fight with Hawkins was the same amount of effort he put in his fight with Rayleigh, Marco, and Whitebeard which is obviously cap
Btw I made a mistake in my last comment, I said that the raikage was able to see through sauske's genjutsu but in actuality sauske saw through the genjutsu they tried to put on him in his partner, I misinterpreted the chapter, sorry about that, however one thing I will say is that deidara was able to train his left eye to see through sauske's genjutsu in chapter 360, and if he can resist sauske's genjutsu with just his left eye (without any dojutsus btw) then I see no reason as to why character such as gojo, luffy, and hiei shouldn't be able to resist it as well, in fact this also means the Byakugan can see through genjutsu as well since it's way more efficient at perceiving things way better than even the sharingan as stated by Kakashi in chapter 78, so that pretty much puts an end to the whole rock lee with Byakugan vs shikamaru with sharingan debate as well, also I don't know if anyone knows this or if I'm just late to the party but the infinite tsukuyomi won't work on kizaru because it requires your body getting hit with the ray of light shining from the moon and since light does not have an electric charge one photon cannot interact with another photon this means that infinite tsukuyomi won't work on kizaru, also also people say that genjutsu would work on other verses because kaguya was able to put the world in an infinite tsukuyomi before they even had chakra but that was in a filler episode and I don't recall that ever happening in the manga so take that as you will
I'm 99 percent confident in my research this time around, however, if anyone disagrees feel free to lay out your arguments down and we'll have a respectful debate
You re-typed your previous post. Did you really have it ready to be copy and pasted?
@@mistercontroversial Any arguments I have for any vs battle gets saved in case someone wants to debate me
@@thelonecyborg3555 Wow that’s efficient.
Thanks for this information man I needed it.
Thanks for this information man I needed it.
Excellent video, can you explain how Black beard Yami Yami fruit is tangible? I mean by logia standards he is darkness but he can be hit correct?
Rayleigh was saying without haki you could track light
Chapter 560 should be sufficient evidence against the aim dodging arguments.
What happens in 560?
Luffy and Ivankov dodge a Pacifista laser at Marineford, and we explicitly see in one panel the beam middair halfway to Luffy and Ivankov before either bothered to dodge. So the argument for dodging before the laser fired doesn’t work, as both dodged long after the laser fired.
@@Steinixos can you do a top 50 strongest op characters
Bro just show Marco moving through the light speed attack and catching Kizaru off guard to knock him back showing he's ftl
wait how do tons and real world weights and forces apply? the equation for f is f=ma but using the actual speed of light times the mass of any character would breed inf force meaning that the equation for force doesn't work. so mass and weights compared to real life dont even apply right?
27:15 you can make the argument Luffy stood up into the hit range. [all 3 beams were headshots level ] you see him standing implying he got into hit range [headshot level] the slipped all 3 shots. making him casually speed of light.
In that, he is even faster than light. If he can stand up, see the lasers, and move his head, all while the laser is already super close to Luffy, makes post-ts saobaody base luffy lightspeed+. and now a base luffy reacting to a lightspeed+ kaido in hybrid form makes luffy even more insanely fast, like lightspeed++, let alone Luffy's gear forms which could boost him to lightspeed+++++++
@@Boxsteam
Ya definitely now. Light speed then causally. Easy FTL now
another reason why cross verse battles dont matter because the basic physics in diff verses are completely diff
I think it multiplies your speed according to the corresponding element
4:05 ain't no way people made an argument using real world physics vs anime logic, of course some real world logic to can applied to anime, but to use real world physics to debunk speed is ridiculous.
so does that mean kizaru's attacks(his ranged ones) are limited to light speed and that kizaru can only move at light speed when fight the similarly to how he was fighting Rayleigh
You got discord? cause the link don't work
I’ve updated the link. It should be working now
This is what I dont understand about powerscalers. It's so wildly inconsistent and no one bats an eye. Like you address that its fiction but then attempt to still apply real world math and logic with the calculations then once again ignore the consequences of applying that type of movement speed. Now i understand that the consequences differ with each author however if that's the case how do people compare? It just seems like a wild waste of time
Wait a minute why did u remove this video anyway good video
I added something because there was a claim about Rayleigh I saw going around
Its crazy how people downplay Kizaru when he was ready to go to Onigashima and fight Kaido, big mom, and Luffy without any help. The admirals have that title for a reason, in no world does Luffy make light work of Kizaru nor would big mom or Kaido. The disrespect and downplaying of some top tiers is honestly astounding.
Make a video on how strong naruto and the naruto verse is and why Naruto is Not Universal or multiversal
He already did that in luffy vs naruto
Hey remember when I said Luffy would obviously be outsped by Kizaru when they fought and everyone in here said this would clearly never happen and then they fought and Kizaru literally moves like 10 km before Luffy can dodge once? Craziest and most unforeseen outcome?
1. Luffy got flashed
2. He's not using ACoC
3. Kizaru is above Light speed
Hey I want to ask you something is Naruto Solar system
You’re points are completely valid except for one thing. The only thing I disagree with is the exemption of physics consequences. People moving at light speed should break the sound barrier instantly. If luffy can attack at light speed his attacks should cause a sonic boom on the spot. The reason why it should is the inclusion of moon walking or geppo in rokushiki m. If it is acknowledged in the show that moving fast enough you can push off of air if you move fast enough because you compress the air to the point it being a solid. This means you move at least sub speed of sound in a split second. If this applies to rokushiki then it applies to other movements at light speed or high speed. Just because some laws are broken such as zoro being so strong despite not being enormous and the fact that the setting is a fantasy should not allow an author to pick and choose what laws of physics they obey like a buffet. One piece is phenomenal but ftl characters not breaking the sound barrier is a contrivance plain and simple.
Well to that I say this, just simply watching kizaru would u think that he is light speed? It is clearly obvious that the authors intent is to make it known that his characters are at the very very least light speed. And honestly that’s all that really matters. I feel like people get so caught up in realistic aspects that they forget about wat the author himself is trying to say and wat they are literally putting in your face. I highly doubt that oda just sat down and thought about the laws of physics when writing kizaru or one piece in general. He wanted kizaru to be the literal element of light so that’s wat it is. I doubt he even graduated college having a science degree 🤷🏽♂️. For all we know the only reason why he made geppo have that effect is because it looked cool but since people with no devil fruits could use it, it might have been pretty confusing to regular viewers that think, “why is he flying in the air, he doesn’t even have a devil fruit” so in response to this, they needed a real world explanation that would somewhat make since. 👍🏽
I hate when people try to downplay One Piece Characters
Let me ask you something, what is the speed value of light in One Piece verse.
@@henryboussamba6058 186,000 miles/sec
@@r.a.s6410 (*_*) OK
Why has the Discord link already expired?
I’ve updated the link. It should be working now
Character is as strong)fast as the narrative needs them to be. Not going to waste my time with scalers
Re-upload?
Yup had to add something important
@@Steinixos I'm definitely gonna watch it through again.
There is a character that can teleport which is Blueno the guy that use door fruit. I forgor the name so i might be idiot or totally dumbass.
Edit: oh yeah he said character that are reference in literally the intro im totally dumbass.
Blackbeard's Darkness is Darkness, but it's actually bright
ok but that means they aren't travelling light speed. If they are travelling LS then they would about the force of travelling at LS in other words since they dont that means that smt as basic as f=ma doesn't even apply in their world and people who scale attacks using it are useless.
STEINXIOS can you please do a mont d or books explanation and how they aren't illusions.
what?
Some of his techniques are illusion based, but his prison books are real.
@@michaeldorsey9231 He can make it to where they are but they aren't illusions
The reason why people think like this because of tik tok and false information from google. And rumors actually.
Since I was a kid I view luffy as the weakest character in all anime. Because I thought that he is just rubber and that's all in him. Specially that my first anime that I watched is Dragon ball. Even my friend who watched anime before me don't know how strong one piece characters really is because of this false information going on around this world.
Is Kizaru just a better Enel? Sure Enel has a very destructive devil fruit capable of destroying entire islands at full power and the ability to move at the speed of lightning. But Kizaru has a devil fruit just as if not more destructive (Aokiji and Akainu straight up terraformed an entire island) not to mention that Kizaru's attacks move at the speed of light and Kizaru can move at the speed of light, which is faster faster lightning. So is the Lightning Devil Fruit outclassed by the Light Fruit?? And maybe the light fruit is better than every other DF?
Also you should make a video talking about what you think are truly the best logias in OP.
I love Enel so much my man, but even his best destructive feat is unfortunately toothless due to Oda's apprehension of death. BUT if you want to do what I do and wank Enel, we can say he theoretically could move at Light Speed by travelling along radio waves, which we know he can tap into due to his fruit and observation haki. In my personal opinion the Light Logia does indeed outclass Enel's, in speed. There is an argument that Enel's fruit has the one of the highest Destructive Capacities, but I personally find Kizaru's more concentrated beams to be higher Attack Potency, which is more relevant in a serious fight in the OP world as it is.
@@biggimmicke Interesting take with Enels fruit. I remember hearing someone say that Enels fruit also gives him the power of electromagnetism because of the time he manipulated his gold staff and the gold on his ship and that because of it, he can essentially do anything. I sort of forgot the details but yeah, maybe in terms of speed and attack speed Kizaru wins but in terms of AP or just the power of the fruit in general, Enel edges out.
@@quarterpounderwithcheesebacon Absolutely, Enel has incredible utility and with enough training could easily be an Admiral tier character
17:38 haha that was funny
I don't know why people use statements from 3D2Y, that wasn't Oda's work, Strong World is a written by Oda himself and even that movie isn't considered canon, why people think 3D2Y is canon is beyond me
It’s a Ln and it doesn’t contradict source material
@@NukeNuke1 still doesn't change the fact that Oda didn't write it
@@thelonecyborg3555 3d2y was written by Tatsuya Hamazaka the same guy who wrote the canon Ace light novel and aswell as the canon ace vivre cards. Toei asked oda if he would approve of the additions they were making for luffys character during the 3d2y time period and he agreed to it. if your super skeptical I’ll even go and find the link for u to show you the whole thing
@@NukeNuke1 again just because something is approved by Oda doesn't mean it's canon, their has been tons of movies and light novels that was approved by other anime authors and guess what, they're still non canon, 3d2y wasn't written by oda there for it's non canon, plain and simple
@@thelonecyborg3555 I’m not gonna keep going back and forth with u but there’s just way too much information that’s pointing towards canon
To be honest I’ve never been a big fan of anime power scaling. Characters are simply as fast as they need to be and as strong as they need to be to fit the narrative of the story, and nothing more.
Now not every anime follows this trope, some take power scaling more seriously than others but I’ve found this to be the logic more often than not.
It’s why comparing two verses is silly, and also a double edged sword because in order for “power” in anime to be “scaled”a slight sense of realism is necessary to be incorporated into the story. You actually said it yourself in the video “even if you knew absolutely nothing about fiction at all, by just watching or reading One Piece itself you realize that trying to actually use normal real world human limits to the fictional characters of the One Piece world makes no sense” and you are correct. But that’s the problem you see, by the exact same logic the opposite is also true, trying to scale fictional characters by using real world physics just doesn’t work because the speed of light in one universe can be completely different than the speed of light in a different universe. Not to mention authors will be inconsistent within their own works sometimes. I can’t think of any really good examples off the top of my head but if for example Luffy and Kaidp are throwing attacks that are faster than “light” and let’s say Mihawk is comparable to a Yonko in terms of speed and power, does this mean that a marineford Luffy is already faster than “light” because he’s dodging Mihawks sword swings? Or does this mean that Mihawk was just holding back? Or does it mean that Luffy was “as fast as he needed to be in that moment because writing” (which is the argument I always go with). This is the reason I don’t usually get into power scaling and just try to enjoy anime for what it is, good story and character progressions with nice action scenes and fights to compliment them. Yes characters are clearly getting stronger but I don’t tend to worry about “how strong is X character exactly in terms of raw numbers” it’s mostly about how they’ve grown as a character and how they play out against other characters within their own universe. I like to enjoy it for what it is without thinking about the messy details of scaling, if you get where I’m coming from :)
yes one piece characters are light speed, they can react and move at that speed, that being said the force generated from the light speed is not the same as real life light speed. if it was than drake would be dead. this attack would be 2.4*10^7 MJ if his leg is 7kg, that is 1/4 the power of the fat man nuke being 8.8 2.4*10^7 MJ. sabaody would be gone
Does that mean doffy katakuri and kaido can move faster than the speed of light? @Steinixos
Not just them, Hordy jones, Vergo, Dillinger, Hakuba, Cracker, Nijii (uses stealth without raid suit) Sanji with his raid suit, King, Marco (even in the anime rn is stalling King 1v1) Zoro (dodging an attack he says was “like a beam”) Honestly anyone stronger than not only post ts luffy but Final transformation Hordy. That’s how far back real speed feats go
@@reesesxp6335 so everyone above steroid hordy is light speed?
@@user-li3tt8dh2j Basically, Hordy ended up becoming strong and fast enough to make luffy who previously called light slow, say that he’s “so fast” and could barely keep up
@@reesesxp6335 so... does that answer my question, im kinda bad at english. does that mean everyone who is faster than steroid hordy can move at lightspeed?
@@user-li3tt8dh2j Yes, anyone stronger than him can move that fast
Well iirc Madagascar light fang is natural light cus it’s sage jutsu so nature chakra
Whilst in black clover most magic is the way u describe it the ture magic the mages got in the heart kingdom is actually the real element itself
ichiji doesnt fire lasers tho, the rest is solid
Man. I hate when people get weird and bring up real world physics to downplay Kizaru lol.
Let me ask you something, what is the speed value of light in One Piece verse.
@@henryboussamba6058 the same as naruto and bleach
Kizaru solos dbz verse🥱🥱
@@Ord2004 Fax, Goku isn't laser proof
@@henryboussamba6058 he kinds is unless he lowers his ki barrier/gaurd(like in the rof saga)
Literal
Praise God, some good TH-cam scaling
big mom is a giant
Bro what about sealing. I can debunk it but some ppl dead brain cell wouldn't accept
Ahhh yesss
Kuma teleports
Kizaru >>> Kaido
Damn, I'm late.
Realistically kizaru has a bad match up vs Blackbeard because black hole.
Argument could be said that he could move faster than light this avoiding it
Actually the fact that the power system is this convoluted and innecesarily silly without any consistancy with logic or itself makes the manga so much worse (and I actually love it, but thanks to this i've lost a little of respect for the manga)
What about darkness is counter to light though? Lol
only blackbeard possese darkness
bb basically is anti devil fruit any atack well get absorbed by him
Lmao he explained this already in his Logia problem vid
@@mohammad3904 yes bro but what i mean in other verses when there aren't any df blackbeard wouldn't absorb devil fruits powers and his boddy would be made of darkness
@@orioman7535 in one piece blackbeard with his logia can get attacked by physical attacks because he absorbs devil fruits abillitys in other verses he would still absorb people because he said back at banaro island darkness is gravity and in other verses his boddy would've been made of pure darkness nobody would beat him except zeno
But if base Luffy is Light speed how is kizaru any challenge at all?
Kizaru isnt capped at lightspeed
@@karma2130 how is light faster than light?
@@Bell_Cat639 its faster cause this is fiction
@bengtskoog4023 you can improve your devil fruit abilities, look at luffy in chapter 1 verses gear 4 luffy
@@Habesh778 yes but how can you improve literal "light" sure your movement speed may be faster but how do you improve something that has reached its limit
so Kizaru can move at speed of light
but still only with the activation of the fruit
everytime we see him being crazy ass fast he transformed into light
when he was far away from XDrake we literally saw him transforming to light and materialize right before him
when he kicked Hawkins his foot was like transformed into light
against Rayleigh we didnt saw such things and in that fight he wasnt faster at all
therefore my conclusion is, that he actually has to activate the fruit to move at this speed
or what do you want
also where we see something like above lightspeed in OnePiece (I only want a single feat, but I dont see it)
based on feats we saw I cant believe he can move faster than light
also we didnt see any feats of characters really being faster than light
every such feat is a reaction time feat and no moving speed feat also likely at most of these feats there was future sight haki what makes these feats simply less impressive
Ichiji and Marco both have moving lightspeed feats. For marco you might say it was cause of future sight (even though its unconfirmed that he has it), ichiji outsped his own light bullets which he wouldnt use FS for
“every such feat is a reaction time feat and no moving speed feat ”
Luffy dodging a Pacifista laser in chapter 508 was as much a movement speed feat as it was a reaction feat, since he jumped a distance comparable or greater than how far the laser traveled.
This guy debunk himself he said chakra doesn't move at light speed, It's like saying their Magma release is not hot because it's chakra that turned into magma but that's not true and if chakra can aquire property of magma then it can also aquire property of Light. Databook state the same statement that gale style or storm release whatever you call it is light speed and that's not average gale style it's itself is light and furthermore enhance by SO6P's chakra. If SO6P's chakra multiply their power and speed prime example is Sasuke, he gets blitz by Madara then blitzing Madara.
If you are going to say Light pure light travel faster than Light even in anime you are stupid, Kizaru maybe physically faster than light but not in his light form.
The aim dodging is still true for Luffy he know where attack is going to land and moved himself but I am not saying he is not light speed, Chopper also predicted the path of his attack.
Sanji blitz queen who fought against Marco the same Marco who was clashing with Kizaru furthermore he travelled faster than light and saved someone.
He never said charkra doesnt move light speed, he showing a example of a jutsu that was replacting light said nothing about speed.
Naruto verse is like magic kingdom
ok seriously no, this need to put every anime character under the sun into lightspeed category every time there is a freaking beam dodged on the screen need to stop for fuck sake I have seen people trying to argue that link from the legend of zelda is lightspeed !
even though to be fair kizaru seems to really fit into it at first glance
but here's the thing
if kizaru is lighspeed, and since lightspeed is just insanely, I repeat INSANELY broken speed, why isn't he the strongest in the verse bare none ?
the answer would be, well because other character can counter his lighspeed they are at this tier themselve !
then another question, the most important one
why.would.they.need.boats ?
in an anime about travelling the world why the top tiers character of the verse would'nt travel CONSTANTLY at lightspeed to do whatever the fuck they want to do at the instant ?
you would have pirates and admirals doing fights like the one from DB GT where super c17 and goku SSJ 4 fight between continents constantly, since it would take them practically no time, the world of one piece would be a constant war zone with insane fight moving from distant isles to distant isles
and no the silly excuse " huh travel time is different actually it doesn't count " is just plain stupid
a character can react to lighspeed, DODGE lighspeed but suddendly can't travel at the same lightspeed ? how conveniant but that's not how basic logics work
it would be like showing frieza first form easily destroying a planet then having him not try to destroy namek against goku SSJ without reason even though he can do it, if you give a character cosmic power you stick to it
kizaru can't be lighspeed because either he become just too strong for this kind of story or the characters are just as strong but loose all coherence with how they would and should use their insanely broken power, because that's what lighspeed is
lighspeed is like time travel, it sound impressive and badass to have a character with that power but if the setting and character action, stakes and motivations doesn't keep up then it just fuck up everything coherent about the story
also is it just me or does kizaru always become physical again just before attacking ? that would make far more sense as to why he would be lightspeed ( in travel ) but still dodgeable by other characters
the camera bulma makes which is claims is “hypersonic” and the flying nimbus doesn’t run on a persons power it flies itself depending on how good of a person the person on it is.
You’re trying to limit all types of speed to travel when even that doesn’t matter cause doflamingo has an attack that can move from two different islands in seconds and luffy easily dodges that same attack. You Dbz fans are honestly weird cause if someone is stronger than raditz they’re ftl, Krillin especially after getting his potential unlocked was stronger than him but when flying on a “tiny planet” all excited at his new found powers he still says it would take him HOURS to get back to gohan. Where’s your suspension of disbelief for those moments genius?
Hell I could talk about how some of you will say “iF tHey WeRe LigHtsPeEd tHey’d fLy AroUnd ThE WorLd 7 tImeS iN a SeCond” but a SCARED of beerus vegeta was tasked with flying around (with a radar) to find the dragon balls and wasn’t back…..Let’s say a minute even tho that’s me being generous, he should’ve got to them instantly from each spot (since he can fly around the world 7 times in a second) and be back within 30-45 seconds at least….
You didn't watch the full argument kizaru still solos 🥱
"in an anime about travelling the world why the top tiers character of the verse would'nt travel CONSTANTLY at lightspeed to do whatever the fuck they want to do at the instant ?" as i see, there are two plausible possibilities: first one, all insane speed feats are due to scaling, so if i were you, i'd not take everything so seriously, since most of these calculations do not correspond to Oda's perception of things in One Piece (he had already stated that Sanji is supersonic, which does not make sense, basically he is bad at writing power levels) ; second possibility, the boats serve as a narrative device only, which might sounds ridiculous, but overral not impossible, since One Piece is heavily inspired by "Dragon Ball" and other classics shonen series, which all are commonly known for using similliar narrative devices. Of course, there may be other reasons, out of my point of view.
Or Kizaru simply can't move much time at the speed of light.
Surely they'd just go at light speed and wouldn't run face first into a wall
Gazelle man runs at 200 kilometers per hour and Luffy couldn't catch him. Lmao nah man wank speed.
Of course it's silly to scale one piece characters as FTL or equal to LS.
Imagine Marineford if any character could propel himself at light speed to get to ace under a second... It does not work.
It's a silly world where people can grab lightnings and make them rubber as they touch it. A world where magma is consider as one of the hottest thing when blue fire is supposed to be hotter. Where rubber don't burn to a 200,000,000 volts thunderbolt... You say we shouldn't limit the charachters to the human limits, it's the same for physics.
The story needs to put a limit to those things so it keeps being interesting. Same for lightbeams, if chopper does not avoid it, he dies. It's written so he doesn't die. If someone get really kicked at light speed, he explodes, if not then why does the guns even deal damage to the characters ?
I mean, you're not wrong to say they should but they don't because the world makes no sens whatsoever if they do. They would not travel with boats because they can run at LS in the air at some point, they would not try to avoid meteores or bullet cause they can whistand FTL kicks, they would just punch their way through the redline instead of going under, etc...
Oda is no mathematician, he's a good writer who likes to mix well prepared events and fresh ideas. He's not doing calculation about the physics of his manga.
I think the same way, but it's not possible to deny facts just because Oda didn't think about it.
Steinicsauce
How do we know that light speed in One Piece is the same as light speed in real life? Pretimeskip Luffy already surpasses One Piece lightspeed by dodging attacks from Foxy, Kizaru has to be much faster to be remotely relevant.
I think you overhyped one piece because you a fan
Kizaru isn’t light speed this is cap
bruh he's literally the light fruit are u stupid
I don't think you have a good grasp on aimdodging, nor do you really address it.
Haki isn't necessary for aimdodging at all. It helps, of course, it's precognition. But you don't need it to dodge things. I have played laser tag without getting hit, but this doesn't make me lightspeed.
Secondly, you're abandoning one conclusion for being too ridiculous to then jump to a massively more extreme conclusion. Chopper is "too tired" and "too distracted" to notice someone getting ready to fire, so therefore he's moving thousands of times faster and exerting tens of thousands of times more effort to do so? If I saw a cowboy duck behind cover to avoid gunshots, I wouldn't conclude that he's bullet timing because he's tired and injured.
Thirdly, you jump between kinds of speed without realizing it. You say that Kaido must be lightspeed because Luffy can use Haki to avoid lasers, but not Kaido. I think the obvious difference between these two is that Kaido is a person who's capable of Haki and non-linear movement, and a laser isn't.
Similarly, if you had perfect precognition, you could probably avoid gunshots pretty reliably, but you couldn't avoid Mike Tyson.
Fourthly, you simultaneously flip back and forth between saying that the anime has non-literal timing for dramatic effect, but also that it's literal and can be analyzed frame-by-frame to see that Luffy is light-timing. Then, on top of that, you also go ahead and say the anime is non-canon anyways? Or its dialogue is, at least. I don't know what the difference is. They're both produced by Toei.
Fifthly, you can't simultaneously hold that "real physics don't apply" while also deriving your value for the speed of light from "real physics". Well, you can, but this isn't a very strong or consistent position. Informally fallacious more than anything, I'd guess.
Sixthly, and this is more minor, but can't Kizaru's "lightspeed kick" just be... the lightspeed kicking lasers that he has? Why did you mention that he can shoot blasts of light from his feet and then just assume that his charged up sole can only possibly represent a literal "kick"? Why not go even further, and assume he just turned his leg into light?
Seventh, what exactly is the purpose of Kizaru having a lightspeed fruit if he's just faster than it anyways?
Eighth, what is the narrative purpose of Kizaru and his fruit if he's just surpassed in the only gimmick it has? The reason "light" is brought up as a measuring stick in the first place is because it's "the fastest thing possible". I'm not saying it's impossible for them to become faster, or that it'll never happen, but having it happen unceremoniously and with no comment would be extremely bizarre, to say the least. Is One Piece usually known for having bad writing?
"Thirdly, you jump between kinds of speed without realizing it. You say that Kaido must be lightspeed because Luffy can use Haki to avoid lasers, but not Kaido."
Thats not what he said at all. Luffy proved himself to be faster than lasers but Kaido proved to be even faster than that when he blitzed Luffy. Theres no contradiction here.
"Fifthly, you can't simultaneously hold that "real physics don't apply" while also deriving your value for the speed of light from "real physics". "
-Thats not his argument. He's not saying that real physics don't apply he said the consequences of physics are gonna different depending on the author's preferences. Which is correct. Most authors who have characters move at LS are not going to have the planet be destroyed when they do so.
"Seventh, what exactly is the purpose of Kizaru having a lightspeed fruit if he's just faster than it anyways?"
-Thats not really the point of the pika pika no mi. It's a Light Logia. Not merely a lightspeed fruit. The problem with this thinking is that it assumes the Lightspeed feature is the only one that matters. It's not. The Nature of the Logia and everything he can do with Light are what makes him dangerous. Not merely his speed.
Edit: Small correction. After reviewing the video your claims about the anime are also erroneous. Even if you didn't accept the evidence from the anime he clearly provided the manga instead showing that there wasn't anything inconsistent.
I don't think any of this assessment is accurate. I think you should watch the video again and listen carefully. He already clearly addressed all of this.
@@emperorluffy6001
"Thats not what he said at all."
I mean, it kinda is? The main reason he brings up Kaido as a talking point is to say that even if Luffy used Haki to avoid the Pacifista beam, Kaido would still have to be faster than the beam to blitz him (and from there, Luffy is faster than Kaido).
If he was just saying "Light < Luffy < Kaido < Luffy" it'd convey the same end result but it'd also be a redundant and unnecessary argument.
My issue with that reasoning is that it doesn't follow. Precognition against a linear attack being fired by a presumed peer in speed does not translate into precognition working against a skilled opponent who is also your physical better. This is why I made the analogy about bullets and Mike Tyson.
"He's not saying that real physics don't apply"
There isn't an actual difference between "physics don't apply" and "the consequences of an action don't apply". Physics is defined by its consequences. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to determine what they are in the first place.
This is basically tantamount to saying "he's not saying that f=ma doesn't apply, just that if you multiply mass and acceleration it doesn't equal force".
"The Nature of the Logia and everything he can do with Light are what makes him dangerous. Not merely his speed."
This is obviously ridiculous. Logia is dangerous on its own, yes, but the characters have plenty of counters to Logia users. Kizaru is not the only Logia user to exist, nor is he the first one they'll ever (presumably) beat.
The obvious main advantage of the light fruit is that it lets Kizaru move at lightspeed. This is why he literally constantly mentions the fact that he can move at the speed of light. If his actual power was "intangible to non-Haki users" the fruit would be no more useful than any other random Logia fruit.
You can say that the real advantage is that it has projectiles (which, again, so do other Logia fruits), but then these projectiles are again only deadly because they can move at the speed of light. If they could be easily avoided it wouldn't matter.
@@joshuaraymer1705 "If he was just saying "Light < Luffy < Kaido < Luffy" "
-That is what he was saying. Theres no contradiction. Kaido in their first meeting was faster than Luffy but then Luffy grew to be fast enough to keep up with Kaido's strongest form. This is canon.
"Precognition against a linear attack being fired by a presumed peer in speed does not translate into precognition working against a skilled opponent who is also your physical better."
-Except in One Piece thats never been shown to be the case? So it's a redundant analogy. Observation is effective regardless of whether the attack is linear or not. This is moot.
"There isn't an actual difference between "physics don't apply" and "the consequences of an action don't apply". "
-There is, you're just playing a word game here. He even provided examples proving his point.
"The obvious main advantage of the light fruit is that it lets Kizaru move at lightspeed."
-No it isn't. Again, thats just one of many advantages.
"This is why he literally constantly mentions the fact that he can move at the speed of light."
-Except this is false because Kizaru only mentions it once.
I did not read the whole fucking thing but having a light fruit is known as bad writing?
Pika kkk
"kaido and luffy hit each other at light speed" huh ? Where? When ? Are you reading Two Piece?
No are you reading two piece?
As a wise man once said
One piece tards wildin
Huh?
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