Star Trek: The Next Generation/Doctor Who #1-8 - Atop the Fourth Wall
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara looks at a crossover between Star Trek and Doctor Who!
atopthefourthwa...
Originally uploaded May 11th, 2015.
ORIGINAL INFO: These are the voyages of the TARDIS…
RUMINATIONS: This is one of those times when I probably should have said no to the Patreon-sponsored episode, but not for the reasons you might think. I like doing good comics like this and honestly I probably would have gotten around to reviewing it anyway, but rather just that it was asking me to look at the entire miniseries at once, something that others have asked me to do after this point. The thing is that the longer the material, the more I have to summarize. I make exceptions to this for big milestone episodes like the 400th (wherein I don’t have to worry about keeping it short, just go nuts and write up as many jokes as I can make). But stuff like this? Yeah, I have to skip out on a lot of dialogue that probably had joke potential because I’m in the mindset of “can’t waste time, got to do more.”
I warn people nowadays about that possibility, but they don’t seem to mind, since I still manage to cover a lot and get plenty of zingers out there. And I’m quite happy with the end results, regardless. I thought the crossover was pretty damn good and as I said in the episode, it’s still a wonder there hasn’t been a Star Trek and Star Wars crossover.
I actually find Wolf 359/Bad Wolf to be a wonderful coincidence that deserved to be taken advantage of.
I propose a Superman/Doctor Who crossover.
The last Gallifreyan meets the last Kryptonian? Both seeing themselves as Earth's protector? Amy and Rory teaming up with Lois and Jimmy? Cybermen teaming up with Brainiac? Or Lex Luthor and Missy?
DC. IDW. Get on that.
Well, DC and Titan, now... But yes!
Batman would be better.
Even better, it'd be a crossover between the UK's most famous alien hero and the US's.
Actually there was a comic when dc held the rights to doctor who comics where superman came aboard the 4th doctors Tardis
@@jordanreed3675 Can I get the title of that story? I'd love to look it up.
You know what would've been a much more interesting crossover? Doctor Who and Voyager.
Just imagine Janeway taking him to sickbay and saying, _"This is our Emergency Medical Hologram... Doctor, meet the Doctor; Doctor, the Doctor."_
There is a reference to this in New Frontier because Tribune Soleta actually met both the 4th Doctor and Voyager's Doctor in the canon continuity.
Also fun fact, Colin Baker was on the shortlist for the role of the EMH and Nicola Bryant was auditioned for Janeway. How awesome would it have been to see that legendary bitchfest with an inverted power dynamic?
@@DarthAzabrushthey couldn’t let Colin be Voyager’s Doctor, mainly cause he’d throttle Seska the moment she had a scene with him
@@mrcritical6751 I'm a Doctor not a serial killer :D
I just realised something funny about the Cybermen and Daleks. Both are voiced by Nicholas Briggs. So, during the finale of series 2, it was technically Nicholas Briggs arguing with Nicholas Briggs.
Not that uncommon, coincidently my favorite "2 guys voiced by same actor arguing" pair are ratrap and dinobot from beast wars, the only transformers show linkara actually watched as a kid😅
@@chheinrich8486 That's a good one. Mine is Batman arguing with his Justice Lord variant on "Justice League: The Animated Series".
@@louisduarte8763 I would also add the brothers in the show Boondocks
11:40 That's just ridiculous. The holodeck _never_ malfunctions!
*as Moriarty comes walking in* well hello there
"Where he no doubt bumps into Salamander before being eaten by a Vortisaur."
Well played.
I agree.
I want a Star Trek TOS + 4th Doctor crossover comic. That would be freaking hysterical.
I agree. Could you imagine the 4th Doctor interacting with Spock. That could be brilliant and absolutely hysterical given the 4th Doctor's knack for sarcasm on an epic scale!
Dunno if this ever came up for you since this comment but that literally happens in a flashback in this comic.
But now I'm sad that there aren't Star Trek/Bill and Ted crossovers. This egregious oversight is most totally untriumphant or something. My Tedspeak is a little heinous.
Amaranth especially as there IS a Bill and Ted comic now, and it's actually pretty good
What about Dr Who and Bill and Ted.
"If we reverse the polarity of the neutron flow, we could save Death and stop the Daleks evil zombie plan!"
"EXCELLENT!" *Air guitar*
"If I give you a jelly baby, will you shut up?"
@@CozmicEmbyrs I would love for the Dr to go Rufus my good man havent seen you in ages
someone needs take make dang it
Guinan's "special awareness" is tied to time (being something akin to a Trek-verse Timelord) so the presence of a TARDIS (with time itself, including alternate timelines, being an integral part of it) would explain her suddenly having expanded awareness and knowledge.
Trying to assimilate the Tardis... Yeah, that should work out fine.
NOT!
Just ask House.
Yeah, that totally won't result in another Bad Wolf entity.
House tock out the coenues of The Tardis so he could replace her
Depending on when this takes place for DW, either this is either pre-House or post-House, and if it is post-House, weeeeeeell... sucks to be the Conduit trying to break thru the Doctor's firewalls.
Ah ha, finally, they confirm Guinan is a timelord or timelady.
an older version of the black female incarnation of the General or the incranation succeeding that
Guinan is an El-Aurian.
Johnny Delgado why you gotta be such an ass?
Obviously El-Aurians are just an offshoot species of the Time Lords. They're simply too similar for that not to be the case.
mattwo7 alternately its that universe’s name for them
I like to think that the two factions of Cybermen met and unified into the versions with the circle emblem on their chest. Thus, giving the Cybermen an interest in other dimensions.
Imagine if they made an episode that was kinda like the Magician's Apprentice in terms of cameos. Have a ton of different Cyberman designs come together and show this merging that I've theorized as happening.
Even without "The Doctor Lies" the Doctor is a wanted criminal who's rap sheet includes everything from operating a universe warping Time Machine without a licence to multiple counts of genocide.
TARDISes look really cool when they're fully uncloaked, by the way. Sadly the uncloaked appearance only exists in concept art - as far as I know, anyway - but it's something to behold.
Feel free to look it up, if you're ever curious.
@@Shadethewolfy Basically it looks like the Justice Station from Trial of a Time Lord which is deliberate because the Valeyard was supposed to be the last Doctor and the station his TARDIS.
@@DarthAzabrush Oh nice! I didn't actually know they had an in-show model for it. I'll need to find Trial of a Time Lord.
I've only ever seen design sketches of it lol
@@Shadethewolfy Colin Baker famously said that they spent 1/6th of the series budget on the opening 30 second model shot and he's not far wrong. Also there was a door in Mindwarp that cost the BBC more than Nicola Bryant's entire 3 year contract.
@@DarthAzabrush Damn, old series Who has some really cool trivia. Makes me wanna track down old tapes of it, really. Er... you know what I mean. XD I wanna watch it. But I'd have to find a good site for it lol
I don't care how popular he was, but Matt Smith's Doctor was my favorite. I really identify with over-the-top cheerfulness to hide the inner demons. I have some bad inner demons.
If you like the doctor for those reasons Silvester McCoy does this way better, especially in the Big Finish audios.
Speaking of the connection between Star Trek and Doctor Who, a planet named Vulcan was actually introduced in 1966's The Power of the Daleks in Doctor Who, one year before Amok Time, Vulcan's first appearance in Star Trek. That's probably the earliest connection anyone can make between the two, even though the makers were probably inspired by the Roman god called Vulcan. Haha.
Plus in the first episode of Eccleston, I'm certain Rose Tyler compares the Doctor to Spock. I'd have to rewatch Eccleston to be sure though, but... ugh. Not a big Eccleston fan here.
+Hadras She even goes so far as to use it as a pseudonym for him. I would recommend researching it though. It's from the Empty Child and Doctor Dances two-part, probably my favorite two-part from the new series. Although I concede that those and Dalek are the only ones with much re-watch value for me, I prefer it to season 2, 5, or 8, and I think people were just getting their feet under them.
+Nick Bottom IMO series 1>series 2. I love David and Chris, but I felt Chris and Billy had better chemistry
Another thing i want to mention is that in a pilot for star trek, the planet they go to is called "talos" (which is also the name of the planet the doctor finds another group of cybermen.)
@@keelanbarron928 No wonder it was forbidden for the Federation to go there. 😉😷
I belive I heard somewhere that The Borg were suuposed to have a more insect like appearence when first conceptualized,where as The Cybermen were always cybernetic.
9:32 Nah, the doctor must have found one of the master emerald shards before Knuckles did. I mean, he even uses it to seal a monster inside, just like how Tikal used it in SA1, and my Holy Lord, I am nerd!
Also, I can just imagine Matt Smith saying "the servers are the seven chaos, chaos is power, power enriched by the heart, the controller is the one that unifies the chaos. Expelliarmus!" I guess that's more David Tennant.
yeah that last bit is more David
I actually wouldn't mind seeing a Doctor Who/Star Trek/Star Wars crossover. It'd be tricky to do right, but it's certainly possible.
I could picture Rey, Finn, The Doctor & his companion, under attack by First Order troops. They're about to be overwhelmed, when someone says "EXTERMINATE". Its Rusty the Dalek, saving the day.
ah Rusty the best dalek, I hope he comes back at one point
EXTERMINATE THE JEDI ON THE ENTERPRISE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!
I really wanna see a crossover between Star Trek TOS and TNG.
@@samuelbarber4154 umm, doesn't the first next generation movie count?
Well, i can see a Doctor Who and star wars crossover working but i can only see it work if it's set during the clone wars.
Despite being a massive Doctor Who fan I've never read this comic, but I find it somewhat funny that (according to your account of the story of the comic) there's no reference of/poke at Star Trek being considered fictional in the DW universe (e.g when Rose was making a fuss about the 9th Doctor not scanning for alien tech and calling him "Mr Spock" in the 2005 series, which apparently counts as the first direct reference of Star Trek in the show).
Recall that Doctor Who has poked at its own fictional existence. Remembrance of the Daleks has a scene where at the tail end, the camera pans to a television showing the first airing of Doctor Who.
*****
I do remember that ("Remembrance" is one of my favourite classic stories, that scene being just one of the many reasons) XD
See the TvTropes page "Mutually Fictional" for more weird, simlar examples. My favorite is how in The Simpsons Futurama is a fictional show, yet in Futurama The Simpsons is a fictional show.
+Thomas Hart Definitely a favorite of mine too (second to City of Death. Hard to beat out the writing and Baker's energy in that one) if only for the Special Weapons Dalek. The mere concept of it is just adorable (there's a lot to like about Remembrance aside from that. One of McCoy's best performances too).
*****
"UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ETC ETC!!!" XD
That and Ace (one of my favourite classic companions next to Sarah Jane) taking on a Dalek with a baseball bat solidified it for me :D
The 359 in "The Battle of Wolf 359" is a whole other Doctor Who reference outside of Bad Wolf. The series was fully revived in March of 2005 debuting the 9th Doctor. 3-5-9
Brett Hanna. what a coincidence that there is a star near earth with the right name to make such a connection possible.
Huh. It seems Fate has a sense of humor.
what if 359 means "BAD"?
Then it would be Wolf Bad, change the words and then....well, i dont need to explain it
Nneeeerrrrrdddd!!!!
@@KonElKent CRITIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!
The TNG / Eleventh Doctor eras were both chosen because, at the time this was published, both were featured on BBC America.
As for the Doctor's weird memory issue, I have a theory: we know the Doctor's memories work wonky when he overlaps his own timeline. Later Doctors find themselves remembering things they've forgotten because of the overlapping timelines of his future and younger selves, that sort of thing.
Given that the Cybermen here in this story -- differing appearances be damned! -- exist in both the Fourth and Eleventh Doctor's timelines, that might mean that the same kind of timeline overlapping that caused the Doctor to remember events he'd "forgotten" due to overlapping timelines before (such as when #10 met #5, or when #11 met #10 and the War Doctor) is happening here as well.
I mean by the 11th Doctor's era the Cybermen had started assimilating themselves the parallel universe the mondas and Etc all merge together
Man I wish this comic was the classic Star Trek with the 4th Doctor.
Did you read it? This literally happens
@@Xerophlume He means fully
For like 3 panels. I get the OP. It should have been ALL 4th Doctor and TOS. Both were horror in space science fiction which would make them mash up much better.
I'm starting to think the Wars-Trek crossover never happening is more because of the Star Wars side of things, considering the sheer number of out-there crossovers Star Trek had done vs the all of zero to come from Star Wars. And on that note, I finally know what I'll do if I ever get a Patreon slot: "Star Trek vs The Transformers."
So are the hybrid Cybermen/Borg Cyborgs?
yup.
Dammit! How did I never see that before! That's hilarious!
So they turn into Jean Claude Van Dammes?
Cyberborgs
Cyberborg
30:10 Ah yes, goldshirts, the 24th century's redshirts.
There is... Logic, in what he says.
I like the Eleventh Doctor. He was the first Doctor I saw, granted, but I like him.
Linkara's statement about the quality of both franchises is a good one:
Awesome Classic Doctor Who stories: The Dalek Invasion of Earth, The Tomb of the Cybermen, The War Games, Spearhead from Space, Inferno, The Time Warrior, Genesis of the Daleks, Terror of the Zygons, Pyramids of Mars, City of Death, Earthshock, The Caves of Androzani, Vengeance on Varos, Remebrance of the Daleks, The Greatest Show in the Galaxy, Battlefield, The Curse of Fenric
Terrible Classic Doctor Who stories: The Web Planet, The Dominators, The Krotons, The Time Monster, The Leisure Hive, Warriors of the Deep, Timelash, Time and the Rani
Awesome Star Trek episodes: Space Seed, Amok Time, A Piece of the Action, The Doomsday Machine, The Measure of a Man, Q Who, The Best of Both Worlds, In a Mirror Darkly, Yesterdays Enterprise
Terrible Star Trek episodes: 90% of Voyager and Enterprise, The Animated Series
These selections are just my opinion.
you really should have worn a bow tie and that Star Trek uniform for this video lol
In response to the Doctor's outburst, I think I have a reason for why he was against committing genocide against the Cybermen - because he has hope. In the Puffin short story "Nothing O'Clock" the Doctor makes a speech about he believes that anything is possible for any race. As such, while it is a slim chance, he believes that even in some of universe's greatest threats - like the Daleks and the Cybermen - may have goodness in them, and that maybe one day, at least one Cyberman or Dalek may suddenly realize that they're monsters and turn good. As such, committing genocide is eliminating that chance completely and the Doctor doesn't want that. I may be wrong, and I will admit that this is just my theory, but I believe it makes sense in the context of the Doctor's character.
Derek Night I think they kind of did do that in The Human Dalek two parter from Season 3 of the Modern Series, although I think the Dalek sect human emperor thing was overruled.
You also see he was right in the series four finale with the “insane” Dalek. He saw how bad they were and declared no more.
I think they went for TNG rather than Kelvinverse for one simple reason - history. TNG's setting has a nice deep history to draw on, the same as Doctor Who, allowing the enormously fun sequence where Kirk et al met Four. If they'd gone with the Kelvinverse, they wouldn't have been able to do that.
That and the whole cyberman/borg thing.
@33:11-33:22
Continuity Alarm: AHHN! AHHN! AHHN! AHHN!
Linkara: Huh. Didn't realize you were still around; although maybe at this point maybe I should name it nerd alarm.
Loved the 7th doctor costume. I have a similar costume and it is one of my favorites. My other costumes are the 11th Doctor and I recently have added the 4th Doctor to my collection.
Hopefully, Linkara will one day review the Star Trek & Planet of the Apes crossover!
I LOVE the pannel of a cyberman wielding a Bat'leth
Why are they merging? Obviously Koopa got the rock.
We shoulda trusted the fungus.
I'm still wating for a Star Trek/MLP crossover.
Not as much hope for a MLP/Doctor Who crossover seeing as IDW doesn't have the rights anymore... It's only a matter of time before Star Trek switches hands again too...
I would totally be behind Trek/MLP
@@AlexSeverinski Shocked it took them so long to make a Star Trek joke in series when Big Mac and Sugar Belle got hitched. XD
I read Coto actually wanted to do a Doctor WHO/Star Trek crossover, if Enterprise got another season.
I absolutely loved this series when it came out! I wish I'd picked up the Vol 2 trade when I had the chance, it's obscenely expensive on the secondary market these days. I've got most of it loose, at least.
Anyone else happy crossover comics are back?
And getting more insane each year
Definitely depends on the characters and the plot line.
Shame that IDW no longer holds DW, the possibilities would've been endless with the many Doctors and the various Trek shows.
And the doctor could have bumped into the Transformers again
@@plantainsame2049did he actually bump into the transformers, he only bumped into deaths head who just came from the transformers universe, as far as i know
@@plantainsame2049 happy, idw doesnt has transformers anymore Either, their second continuity from 2019 to 2022 Was so boring compared to the excellent 2005 to 2018 continuity
@@chheinrich8486 Well I don't think he met them directly
But still optimus prime and the doctor existed in the same universe
But we've also seen Transformers toys
So maybe that section of the universe. Is is in temporal fluxs like dracula
Aww, why didn't you include David Banks "EXCELLENT" line Linkara-senpai?
Kind of wonder what STAR TREK character(s) they would have pulled out as a counterpart to the Daleks that they gone with the old pepper shakers instead of the Cybermen.
Tough no one matches up quite as well as Borg and Cyberman but perhaps in as Daleks see themselves as Superior you could use the superior man KHAN. He just wants to see the world /universe burn
@@jfdracWell that team up would last about a day
@@plantainsame2049 But it would be glorious while it lasted
Speaking of IDW Publishing, have you ever considered reviewing the Samurai Jack comics? Especially with them now making a new SJ series of comics called Quantum Jack this fall.
Counting Picard, the Borg Queen apparently has an awareness of other timelines (based upon what I have read about that series)! Still the comic was obviously made before that little tidbit of information was added to the Star Trek canon!
Still this comic could explain her having that ability in the first place given this crossover seemingly takes place before First Contact (I said seemingly cause both involve time travel)!
An allegiance between the Cybermen and the Borg... truly such a thing could only be orchestrated by Set, the Goa'uld system lord hiding out on Earth!
Reverse the polarity of the Neutron flow was his catch phrase though.
The problem with a Star Wars Crossover is that usually the SW universe is at war. Prime Directive and all that the Federation techniqly shouldn't interfere. I mean you'd have to set it like after the battle of endor or something where the new republic comes back. Then I could see the Federation making an alliance with the New Republic against the Imperial Remnant.
Getting a picture in my head.... Picard in the executor class starship from First Contact vs Grand Admiral Thrawn in an ISD II (Imperial Star destroyer mark 2) *geekgasm*
The only problem is Palpatine was secretly running things anyway. If The Enterprise and her crew started to help he might try and accelerate his plans. Also they are pretty useless when it comes to ground combat. Phasers are great, but when you have zero protection a mass of laser fire will immolate someone. They could probably lend the Republic phaser tech but again Palpatine controls the clones so...
The Prime Directive is more about non-warp capable species, right? I'd say hyperdrive is close enough.
My problem is the technological gap-Wars is older, so propulsion is faster, ships are bigger and more numerous, and the Republic and Empire dwarfs the Federation. It would have to be about the contributions of the Trek Characters-which I would love to see. The Enterprise helping the Rebel Alliance in of itself isn't going to change much-no match for a Star Destroyer, like most Rebel ships before ROTJ, but I'd love to see how the characters would contribute and interact. Imagine how Kirk or Picard would try to analyze the situation and try to find the best way they could help, or Spock's analysis of the Force and the Jedi, Data meeting the inner-conflict free, subservient, all-business droids. I can imagine Scotty or Geordi become R2-D2's best friend etc etc.
Tareltonlives Older doesn't mean more advanced.
Comparing ships of different series is difficult. The size of the vehicles isn't even 100% certain.
Bad Beard Bill also Star Wars also takes place “a long time ago in a Galaxy far far away” which means the past but somewhere else
King Kong on the Planet of the Apes
Godzilla vs the Avengers
This actually happened
I would love to see another crossover with Classic Doctor Who crossing over with Star Trek TOS. Maybe the enemies can be the Sontarans crossing over with the Klingons
I read this one just last night. The interaction between Guinan and the Doctor was my favorite, though the art style was fairly distracting in general. I suppose crossovers with Star Trek just seem easier to do since that sort of thing happened fairly often in the shows, so there's crossovers with Green Lantern and stuff now. (Which I see you did review so I'll get to that eventually. XD)
Return of the continuity alarm!
You just had to make that Yu-gi-oh reference in Ancient Egypt with the children's card game, didn't you?
Fun fact: Before IDW lost the license to Titan, Tony Lee pitched a sequel to this which would’ve seen the Doctor and Clara team up with the Deep Space Nine cast to face an alliance between the Sontarans and the Dominion.
1:23 As Movie Bob says occasionally, "COMICS! ARE! WEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRD!"
2:28 Series 8, was the the 1st one with the 12th Doctor and Clara?
17:29 Destroyed Borg ships? You won't hear me complain.
23:18 Hell, now I want the show to do that: Cyber-convert OTHER non-humanoid species! Cyber-Judoons, Cyber-Silurians, Cyber-Sontarans, the possibilities are endless! And the 13th Doctor's run squandered them!
24:06 "We still haven't assimilated understanding of 'feelings' or 'awkwardness'."
2:36 Examples Love & Monsters, Fear Her, Daleks In Manhatten/Evolution of The Daleks, Sleep No More, Arachnids In UK.
Hey I thought that Dalek two parter was actually quite good, Sec hybrid that looks likes a penis notwithstanding.
12:15 or more like a hitchhikers guide to the galaxy fan as The Doctor has encountered Arthur dent and has an oolong colluphid book in the tardis
Borg... corpses... Borpses!
"This isn't too different from the regular stuff the Doctor deals with"
Or The Enterprise for that matter.
Cyber Leader: "More Power!"
Oh, Cyber Leader, if only you'd landed up in this decade - you could have got your hands on an AMD Threadripper chip for reasonable (ish) money...
But I bet the Cybermen are die-hard Intel fanboys :)
I imagine the doctor reading the federation rule book in a waiting room, and then throwing it in the trash; calling it “a rubbish read”.
You mentioned Star Trek and Star Wars crossing over. But now there's a chance that Warner and Paramount could merge. I think this Cybermen quote you often use sums up my thoughts on that idea "Is this the human condition of madness leader? It is"
21:27 There's more than two versions of the Cybermen. There's the main faction, the Cyber Neomorphs, the Cybusmen, Missy's Cybermen, and even Cybermen from another universe that use VR to invade the multiverse.
I'm a fan of both two so I love this comic concepts. Though which bad guy from Star Trek can the Daleks crossover with?
The Dominion possibly?
The Cardassians?
I think Khan...they both find themsleves Superior and towards teh end Khan just wants to see the world and the Universe BURN
Matt Smith is my favorite of the new doctors, though, I've liked all of them fairly well. I am a bit behind though and haven't seen anything really post-capaldi. Also never watched any of the original series. Also, also if linkara sees this, thank you for getting me into Dr. Who and sf debris who also got me into Dr. Who.
I loved this episode and really liked this comic, and despite some others complaining I also really like that Patreon allows Likara to look at different things.
Also looking at the scene I feel that Worf was aiming at the power source for the tractor-beam emitter rather than the emitter itself, but that's just my impression.
A children's card game in Encient Egypt you say, hmm.
I'm guessing the Cyber Controller is the John Lumic version, hence why he has personality (specifically cuckoo for coco puffs). And, yes, I know, he was supposedly killed in 'The Age of Steel', but I like to think he stuck to Cyber tradition and survived, ventured forth into space with the Cybermen seen in 'The Pandorica Opens', bumped into the Mondasian Cybermen so they could swap technology and become the Cybermen seen in 'A Good Man Goes to War', 'Closing Time' and 'Nightmare in Silver'.
Wouldn't the Seventh Doctor make more sense to cross over with TNG? His run began and ended around the same time TNG got started.
I'd say that pointless first contact was a "old habits die hard" moment. Probably the cyberman was as surprised by reflex of hailing targeted vessel as the vessel crew themselves.
I just watched the latest Doctor Who episodes and I'm pretty sure that this comic has just became canon
This has to be my favorite video that you've done on this channel.
Bow ties are ALWAYS cool.
You know, with that getup in a green color scheme and a gold question mark cane, you'd be an excellent Riddler cosplay.
Love the tricorder toy in the background.
Linkara, on your webpage this review is missing Star Trek tag. I am just watching through your StarTrek reviews so I noticed. Btw.. that Christmas review done in rhymes, pure god :D.
I always feel weird calling The Doctor "the hero" given that he's often made decisions that would be considered ethically questionable. Especially during the Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant years. This is a guy who *spoiler alert* had a perfect chance to save someone's life but just straight up let them die, yet ironically will still refuse to use a gun on another living creature. This is also the guy who at one point might as well have gone "screw the space/time continuum" as he tried to selfishly save a bunch of lives despite their deaths being a fixed event in time (ok, so it's not 100% selfish, but at the same time he tried to save 8 people at the risk of potentially destroying reality). To be clear, I have no problem with the Doctor being like this, especially since he's nearly always called out on it fairly and squarely, but it does make it hard to refer to him as "the hero" in light of this fact.
That's the thing about the Doctor's different incarnations: their sense of morality and methods will vary with each one. Compare the 5th Doctor through the 7th:
- A jolly good fellow who cares deeply for his companions, but struggles to keep them alive in a universe becoming too dangerous for these kind of journeys
- An abrasive jerk who's had it with the Timelord's corruption but whom given times, became one of the most empathic Doctor ever (thanks to Big Finish)
- A spoon-playing buffoon who's goofy appearance hides a cold-blooded chessmaster ready to juggle with his companion's survival if it means reaching his goals
I actually really like the way the Cyber Controller is obsessed with vengeance on the Doctor. It feels appropriate given how often the Doctor has beaten the Cybermen in the past. I would have liked if Data had gotten the chance to tell the Cybermen off for being idiots, but I do like that Guinan calls the Cybermen out on their hypocrisy. I'm annoyed that so much time travel is used when in Season 1, the 9th Doctor explained he couldn't leave an event he had become a part of (or something), but filling the air with vaporized gold and the 4th Doctor meets Kirk is pretty awesome. So, some bad stuff, but mostly good stuff.
And yeah! Bring on the Star Wars/Star Trek crossover!
Luke: “may the force be with you”
Kirk: “uhm, thanks…?”
I heard that there is going to be a crossover with Star Trek & Aliens. If I had a choice between putting my safety with a Starfleet security team or a squad of Space Marines, I would definitely choose the Space Marines.
Well yeah Marines have armor and better weapons even if they arent as clever....IDW is just cranking outcrossovers like crazy...Kong vs Planet of the Apes and Mars Attacks ...well everyone lol
You could put MACO units (from Star Trek:Enterprise) against Xenomorphs
Hey Lewis,
Since 'Doctor Who' is one of your favourite franchises, I was wondering if you would do a review of the Special Comic 'Supremacy of the Cybermen'. It's basically a Comic that celebrates 50 years of the Cybermen. I'd like to hear your opinion on it.
You have the Star Trek gameboy game, nice. I could never beat the Borg on that. Boosted shields, weapons, in orbit, I tried them all. I could never get their shields down
14:47 I just realized that for some reason the blue on the science officers is now purple.
Ah, so even in the comics it's all about "LOOK AT HIM, HE'S THE DOCTOR!!! HE'S SUPER MYSTERIOUS AND BADASS AND EVERYTHING HE DOES IS LIKE THAT OF JESUS AND YOU SHOULD BUILD GIANT STATUES OF GOLD TO HIM!!"
What ? Are you talking about "the wisdom and sadness" bit ? After more than a millenium (depending on when exactly this is for 11) of experience including the death of his own people at his own hands, it would be surprising if he had NOT either of those.
When you effectively genocide two of the most powerful species in the universe and have almost a thousand years worth of helping people out... its hard to avoid getting that kind of reaction.
Big finish reference YAY!
I really hope Linkara reviews the Orville comics when they come out
I love the other species Cyberman designs.
damn kids and their expensive iphones and what have you.....I STILL HAVE A FLIP PHONE! it only costs me 20 bucks every couple of months! hahaha!
Honestly they shouldn’t have had any universe merging. They didn’t even need the Cybermen (not that I’m complaining). This could have totally worked as “Star Trek: but The Doctor shows up”! I think Doctor Who and Star Trek are both very suited for that type of crossover.
The odds of a Star Trek & Star Wars crossover isn't very likely due to the rights issues & how they would even crossover! I mean both series have different eras (original series, original trilogy, Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, Picard, Enterprise, Discovery, prequel trilogy, sequel trilogy, Kelvin timeline, etc)! Unless Disney somehow gets ahold of the rights to Star Trek (probably by purchasing Paramount though I believe that would give them way too big a monopoly on media) I doubt we'd ever see anything official, as such a project would have issues that could lead it either to fall into development Hell or would have to appear in a particular medium like a comic book (most likely penned by Marvel cause of Disney), video game, or animated series/film, as a live action crossover would be way too ambitious in my opinion!
I get some people would probably love it regardless, but given Disney's track record, it might be better not to have anything official, as such a crossover sounds like an endeavor that could result in disaster or something mediocre! However would they even work, what role would The Force play in the story & who would be the antagonists!
Sure the Borg might be the obvious go to & you could have Darth Sidious be assimilated taking over the Collective with the power of the Dark Side to make everyone a servant of his will (seeing the Borg's goal of perfection as a potential method of immortality), but with Vader turning against his master possibly seeing the Borg as threat as while Darth Vader maybe more machine than man, there is still good within him & maybe you could have him experience a force vision which warns him of the danger, maybe allowing the good of Anakin to resurface! Heck, maybe you could have it set in an alternate universe version of the original trilogy thus allowing for the introduction of characters like Thrawn & Ahsoka into the mix with classic characters like Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, & Lando! Maybe have Vader & Thrawn team up to stop Borg Emperor Palpatine's plan to strip everyone in the Star Wars galaxy of their free will! Heck the Federation & Starfleet could help convince the Thrawn & Vader imperial faction to work alongside the Rebels against a common foe! With Ahsoka around she would definitely recognize Luke by the Skywalker name & the fact he was trained by Kenobi telling & personally I wouldn't put it past her to figure out Leia is Padme's daughter based upon their similar personalities! With the knowledge that Vader is Anakin, the three of them could help pull Anakin back to the light side! Still these ideas sound a bit fanficiky & the problem is the two series have very different themes, one being a space opera with sci-fi fantasy elements (Sith Alchemy & Nightsister magik which while force based which has a scientific explanation via the midicolrians), while Star Trek is mostly is science fiction! Also comparatively, the Federation would likely be woefully outgunned by the Empire, who have Star Destroyers that could easily dwarf most starships used by the Federation! Sure it is likely they'd be working alongside the Rebels who have large captial ships of their own & maybe they could introduce hyperdrive technology to the Federation (unless the Prime Directive mucks things up, though I doubt that would be a problem for Rebels like Chewie & Han)! Personally I think the big problem is that the Star Wars stuff might end up overshadowing the Star Trek, given its more action packed nature & POWER of the FORCE! Sure you could just cut out the force sensitives, but that would ruin all the fun of a crossover between the two! Sure if you establish that the crossover takes place in a universe where both Star Trek & Star Wars co-exist (by taking advantage of Star Wars taking place in a galaxy far, far away from the Milky Way galaxy, thus allowing Earth of the Federation to exist outside the Star Wars Galaxy! However if they go that route, that may mean The Force could potentially exist within the crossover's Star Trek galaxy which while allowing for some Trek characters to be Force sensitive, could rub some Trek fans the wrong way! Still some franchises can make it work as shown by Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (haven't read the original comic, so all I have to go off of is the animated film which provided a mostly balanced portrayal of both franchises, even if Batman comes off as a little OP defeating the TMNT after being defeated by the film's lethal interpretation (killing a Foot Clan Soldier to keep him from talking before making his grand entrance) of Shredder using the Foot Clan's ultimate technique, but I let it side cause he's Batman & the Turtles have a history of getting owned by a solo Shredder in various iterations, such as the first live-action film, which also had a lethal Shredder who killed Tang Shen & Hamato Yoshi! Also the Turles are in Gotham on Batman's home turf with the Batmobile nearby, so yeah I still give it a pass as Batman is pretty much disciplined ninja master level compared to the more undisciplined Turtles who are simply out of their depth against Bats until they find the Batcave thanks to Donatello! Ultimately it works & has respect for both properties, with my favorite scene being when Batman let's Michaelangelo go nuts on the controls of the Batmobile, causing the Damian Wayne Robin to admit he always dreamed of doing that himself)!
8:25 those look like the alternate cyber men because of the C on their chest circle
Can't WAIT for the Star Trek/Aliens Crossover!!!!
There is a reason that Cybermen can't Time Travel explained first in Attack of the Cybermen. As beings who value logic and inhibit emotion the Cybermen don't have the intuitive intelligence to work their way around weird shit like paradoxes, eddies and QVEs. Later they get around this by using a reject who's inhibitor never worked properly but the point still stands.
Holy shit, a comic I actually read!
Idk if I left this comment before, because YT has comment issues at present. But, when I read this comment, I very much felt like Picard was just another military commander when the story was told from the Doctor’s perspective. And when told from Picard’s perspective, it seemed like the Doctor was just another weird alien frenemy a la Q. Honestly, in the Picard story you could have replaced the Doctor with a Q and the story wouldn’t have felt any different. Though these are memories of reading the story as a teen.
I just wish the two had more interactions as characters instead of while the universe explodes around them. But, Doctor Who is a show that has a terminal fear of slowing down and examining character.
With him going off on the weird crssovers I was sure he was going to mention Planet of the Apes and KING KONG lol
Hmmm. Doctor Who/Quantum Leap crossover?
For me, the biggest issue with this crossover was the lack of ambition.
This was the first ever meeting of the two biggest Sci Fi franchises in history. (Star Wars is more Space Opera)
This should have been an epic tale but instead it's scope was quite small, something which makes no sense since it was a comic and not a show or a movie that would have been confined by a budget.
The story is ok but it leaves just so many basic questions like:-
Why have just the Borg when you could have had Klingons, Romulans and even Q in it together?
Why have Cybermen when you could have had Daleks, Sontarans and the Master in it together?
Why have one Enterprise and its crew when you could have had a story encompassing all of them?
Why have one Doctor when you could have had the added interaction of 12 of them?
I don't dislike this story but when you consider the first meeting of these two franchises it just underwhelms. If only a Grant Morrison or a Alan Moore could have written the story. That would have been special.
in response to just one doctor and not 22 of them, the comic was written before the 50th anniversary special so neither John Hurt nor Peter Capaldi were the Doctor
I suppose it would have been difficult to pull so much together. Multi-Doctor stories are very difficult to write. The Borg and Cybermen work well together.
Paul King How is Space Opera different from Star trek?Also like if you want a Lord of the rings/Game of Thrones Crossover to be made by Grant Morrison & Stan Lee
....The assimilated Betrand is from ship named...Potemkin. Named after Battleship Potemkin, one of the best soviet movies which is basically soviet propaganda. And he is..assimilated, forced to lose his individuality, cotninuing the collectivistic nightmare of the Borg...and soviet union.
SOMEONE was being cute.
Just want to point out that Starfleet might not want a crew full of people who are all playing, "words with friends."
Maybe the communicator is minimalistic, rather than simply primitive.
...Rewatching this now, isn't this just the plot of Marvel VS Capcom Infinite?