At this point in my life I have gotten to see vengeance not as a cure to pain but as a way to avoid feeling even WORSE. Destroying someone who hurt you will not make everything better, but seeing your enemy skipping through life happily WILL hurt you.
Televised on my 48th birthday....& though this episode was in the virtual infancy of its 2nd year, it nonetheless verified that it was destined for no less than 12 spectacular years of unsurpassed greatness!
Watched years ago forerunner... Hill Street Blue's,then this, amazing writers, amazing cast, amazing story lines,..raw, powerful, humorous, in your face, still wonderful today, 67 me Welsh saw them all..then the Wire, but these 2 shows were the start.
The most frustrating thing for any cop: you KNOW the guy is guilty, you KNOW how he pulled off the crime, you KNOW he used beards to cover his ass, and you KNOW you can never prove any of it legally and you KNOW he's going to get away with it.
I don’t know why but If they made an alternate ending of the movie prisoners I would love to see the same discussion the two guys have at the end of the movie like this
I've always found this scene to be a conflict. I understand the father's rage and need for vengeance. I would want the same. This man lost his daughter (script-wise). The murderer loses nothing, really. I've no sympathy or empathy for criminals. So, while in principal I agree with Bobby's philosophy, I don't think I agree with it. I'm sick of good people dying and being maimed at the hands of bad.
Did Bobby ever have his philosophy put to the test? I would think one's views on the afterlife would have a great deal of influence on perspective here.
Kyle Rittenhouse? Same as Zimmerman and OJ! Blood on his hands head and heart! Kid will be used until some nut guns him down! You have to be insane to kill in civilian life! Think about how your mind is working and the loss of self control you would have gone thru to get there! Then think of the insane political parties we have that lead some to hate enough to go insane and kill!
When a killer kills someone you love, they've taken a part of you you can never get back. But if you let that turn you into a killer too, they've taken even more.
Then, you missed the point of Bobby's speech. Losing one's child is a tragedy but nothing one ever does will ever change that... so nothing is gained by the actions portrayed by the father, here. He's only further descended into a spiral that includes numerous crimes and he's himself performed the actions that have caused him so much grief when they were done to his daughter. Crossing that line will carry some consequences and only much later will someone like that realize it. Once time has gone by, he'll start to wonder why he not only doesn't feel any better but feels worse. Guilt from what he has become will inevitably begin to gnaw at him more and more and the void left by his daughter's death that was temporarily seemingly filled with plans of vengeance will only be exponentially more exposed later on. I can't begin to understand that level of grief but to compound it significantly by forfeiting his humanity only to temporarily cater to one's rage is being shortsighted at best. It'd be the same as building a happy life with a wonderful woman for 2 decades and sacrificing it by having an out-of-the-blue one night stand. That need might feel overpowering by being weak and falling prey to it now just leaves you a husk of a man. The end of the episode is not a triumph for the father - whereas he starts with cockiness and even arrogance, going as far as challenging Detective Simone, he knows the words he was sermonized with rang true and leaves completely deflated, knowing there's no going back. The hired gunman very well could turn him in so his livelihood and life as he knows it are likely over... and what has he gained?
Simone shot people with guns...who were about to shoot him this guy hired a hitman to murder someone, with police officers in the line of fire. the man he killed was probably going to get put away for a long time. then he let the triggerman take the fall for the crime.
Mr. Rudman didn't lose his daughter. His daughter was stolen from him. I understand this man's pain and desire for vengeance. Great scene.
Justice and vengeance are subjective.
He lost his daughter no matter what the circumstances.
At this point in my life I have gotten to see vengeance not as a cure to pain but as a way to avoid feeling even WORSE. Destroying someone who hurt you will not make everything better, but seeing your enemy skipping through life happily WILL hurt you.
@@MikeDixieWrecked In fact, they can be the same.
Lennie Briscoe came *real* close to making the same mistake Rudman did.
Televised on my 48th birthday....& though this episode was in the virtual infancy of its 2nd year, it nonetheless verified that it was destined for no less than 12 spectacular years of unsurpassed greatness!
Watched years ago forerunner... Hill Street Blue's,then this, amazing writers, amazing cast, amazing story lines,..raw, powerful, humorous, in your face, still wonderful today, 67 me Welsh saw them all..then the Wire, but these 2 shows were the start.
Good point Bobby. Gotta love him
A Great Bobby Scene !
No tears for the skell. Man did a community service.
When you set your heart to vengeance, make sure to dig two graves...
You tell ‘‘em Bobby !!!!
No winners, only losers.
The most frustrating thing for any cop: you KNOW the guy is guilty, you KNOW how he pulled off the crime, you KNOW he used beards to cover his ass, and you KNOW you can never prove any of it legally and you KNOW he's going to get away with it.
And sometimes getting away with it, like in this case, is fine with a lot of people.
That depends on your belief in Hell. Personally, I believe we don’t actually “get away” with anything.
If he wasn’t so smug and wanted to show off to the cop who caught his daughter’s killer, he would walk out of there fine.
He did walk out of there fine.
I don’t know why but If they made an alternate ending of the movie prisoners I would love to see the same discussion the two guys have at the end of the movie like this
Powerful!
Nothing wrong with taking care of the problem the old fashioned way
Yeah, there is.
Morals and ethics count.
I've always found this scene to be a conflict. I understand the father's rage and need for vengeance. I would want the same. This man lost his daughter (script-wise). The murderer loses nothing, really. I've no sympathy or empathy for criminals. So, while in principal I agree with Bobby's philosophy, I don't think I agree with it. I'm sick of good people dying and being maimed at the hands of bad.
Did Bobby ever have his philosophy put to the test? I would think one's views on the afterlife would have a great deal of influence on perspective here.
Kyle Rittenhouse? Same as Zimmerman and OJ! Blood on his hands head and heart! Kid will be used until some nut guns him down! You have to be insane to kill in civilian life! Think about how your mind is working and the loss of self control you would have gone thru to get there! Then think of the insane political parties we have that lead some to hate enough to go insane and kill!
When a killer kills someone you love, they've taken a part of you you can never get back. But if you let that turn you into a killer too, they've taken even more.
@@danieldickson8591 and by his act of vengeance, he became the same as the man he had killed. He sank to that killer's level.
Then, you missed the point of Bobby's speech. Losing one's child is a tragedy but nothing one ever does will ever change that... so nothing is gained by the actions portrayed by the father, here. He's only further descended into a spiral that includes numerous crimes and he's himself performed the actions that have caused him so much grief when they were done to his daughter. Crossing that line will carry some consequences and only much later will someone like that realize it. Once time has gone by, he'll start to wonder why he not only doesn't feel any better but feels worse. Guilt from what he has become will inevitably begin to gnaw at him more and more and the void left by his daughter's death that was temporarily seemingly filled with plans of vengeance will only be exponentially more exposed later on.
I can't begin to understand that level of grief but to compound it significantly by forfeiting his humanity only to temporarily cater to one's rage is being shortsighted at best. It'd be the same as building a happy life with a wonderful woman for 2 decades and sacrificing it by having an out-of-the-blue one night stand. That need might feel overpowering by being weak and falling prey to it now just leaves you a husk of a man. The end of the episode is not a triumph for the father - whereas he starts with cockiness and even arrogance, going as far as challenging Detective Simone, he knows the words he was sermonized with rang true and leaves completely deflated, knowing there's no going back. The hired gunman very well could turn him in so his livelihood and life as he knows it are likely over... and what has he gained?
Wish Bobby didn't die.
That was deep.
But Simone kept his humanity when he gunned down Andy's son's killers.
Simone shot people with guns...who were about to shoot him
this guy hired a hitman to murder someone, with police officers in the line of fire. the man he killed was probably going to get put away for a long time. then he let the triggerman take the fall for the crime.
As I remember, they drew on him?
@@ZOOTSUITBEATNICK1they did. Bobby knew they would
They drew their guns on him; clear case of self-defense.
Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
very well put a secret one.
Blue bloods has been the best show since.