@@DaddyGotCoffee I feel that. I have this manual grinder / manual lever machine flow when my son is sleeping and electric grinder / vibration pump when he's awake.
I love how the cafelat robot has a shower screen with a little rubber piece in the middle that allows you to take it out a lot easier after pulling a shot. Flair made a very compelling update here. I can see why people would choose this over a cafelat robot after this update at the price point its at. The mirror+preheat funnel is very cool.
It’s sad. I bought the cafélat robot like two years ago and sometimes I get the “upgrade espresso itch-itus” but every time I look at the specifics, it never makes sense. The robot is all metal, no preheat for medium/dark (which I prefer), simple workflow, pressure gauge…. What else do you need!?! They figured it out! Between the robot and the pico for the office/travel I’m espresso happy. Great video!
Honestly, I love it and all my friends who I make shots for love it. Zero maintenance. If you like light roasts you’ll need a preheat but it’s easy enough to do. But if you do medium or dark roasts you’ll be even happier.
Got the flair pro 2 about 6 months ago, I'm primarily a pour over enthusiast, and thought that this would be a great way to get into espresso. I do enjoy the process, however, after learning the process, I dont think, all things considered, that's it's much more laborious over a manual electric machine, being that you don't have to deal with any of the maintenance etc, and once you get the hang of it, it's real easy to make great espresso, for this price, it's really amazing. Additionally, according to lance hedrick that deeper pucks make better espresso, the size can be a feature, not a bug. Albeit, i find it completely impractical to use it as a portable machine.
Same. It is really no more work, just our brain interprets it is maybe. But i agree ive never felt like its more or less work to pull a shot on either.
Considering to get one now with the offers, overall how much time do you calculate each shot may take u? Only possible drawback for me is not being able to work 2-3 cups on a few mins..... Let's say for gatherings and such..
@@javierpenarandach.1756 I have clocked from grind, boil, fill, and pull, AND then clean takes about 12ish minutes. This is with my hand grinder. I'll pull 3-5 shots in about 20-30 minutes at the start of the week and then chill them because I like iced drinks. If you had an electric grinder you can easily pull 3-4 shots in 20 minutes, including clean up. And you always will continue to just get faster with your workflow as you practice. Hope this helps
Little tip for all the flair owners. It you own a medium sized moka pot, the brew chamber fits perfectly on that. If you manual grind, my workflow is: put the moka base on the stove, place the chamber on top, and the silcion cap on top of that. Grind my coffee, then set a kettle to boi. Coffee and boiling water are ready after around 5min. Then the chamber boils, and reaches temp quite fast. Before pulling the shot, ill put the portafilter on top for 5 seconds until its warm to the touch, wipe it dry, prep my puck and put it into the flair. Then wait til my kettle is at rolling boil again, take the chamber off the moka base, pour boiling water in and pull the shot. Sounds a bit finicy, but works smoothly and everything times quite well. Also you can stack up brew chambers for multiple back to back shots. In this case i dont preheat the portafilters, but just prep all three that i have. Then just take the hot brew chambers and pull shots back to back
@@DaddyGotCoffee dont want to plug anything, as im not intending to taking my chanel anywhere, but if anyone reads the info, ill have one video up where i show the setup (and general realtime workflow, including C40 grinding^^) for the pro 2 :)
@DaddyGotCoffee sure thing :) th-cam.com/video/Sbpm1T-24mk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7XKeD9xUCYolV3nx would also love a video comparing the upgrade from the 58+ to the 58+2. This would be my next final upgrade, as you rightly mentioned in the video. Once on Lever, its tough to go to a fully fledged machine
If you want to get into manual espresso I'd say go cheap or go all out. Flair neo Flex for cheapest option and Cafelat Robot or Flair 58 for all out. IMO everything in between is just not worth it. I started with the Flair Signature and it was just too messy and and annoying to deal with so I ended up selling it very soon after to buy a Cafelat Robot. The Robot just made everything soo much smoother and enjoyable to work with. But to be honest I mostly do pour over now.
I initially bought a Flair Signature because it's effectively a silent espresso machine. However the flair workflow is horrific; handling hot (boiling) preheated chunks of metal is trickly at the best of times, but then to have to squeeze it into a ring, align a plunger and try to quasi-temperature surf at the same time means a lot of burns. My Flair signature sat mostly unused while I made pour-overs until I sourced a used La Pavoni which really streamlines the process, is similarly a manual lever, similarly quiet and much easier to manage (even if the boiler will burn too).
I should really review a La Pavoni. Thanks for dropping your experience. They have gotten better over the years, but still more tedious than other methods or manual espresso makers
I cant believe you don't have 5 times as many followers! Thanks for another great video! Have the Flair Go coming, very excited to see if that one will be good or bad
Another beautifully made video as usual! @12:31 Why did you not do a 1:1 test of the new Pro 3 vs. the old one with a boiling water pre-heat, as opposed to just steaming with the new Pro 3? It would have been interesting to see how much the temp dropped on new Pro 3 with a boiling water pre-heat.
Owned both a Flair Signature and Wacaco Picopresso. In terms of preheating and workflow, the Flairs are hard to use. Touching hot metal when preheating on top of a kettle is a pain which made me buy cooking gloves. Accessories such as levellers were also hard to come by (tho Crema sells one). Then cleaning up also means touching that hot cylinder as you also need to remove the portafilter then eject the pressure gauge steel plunger. Then I got myself a Picopresso which is easier to preheat and cleanup (and also retains heat better). You get accessories too as it uses a 51mm basket and it got even better when they started selling the pressure gauge attachment and the stand. But ngl, the flair still makes better shots and is more forgiving on grind quality.
I also started my espresso journey with a ROK Espresso maxhine and ROK grinder. It us a great way tobreally learn about the Espresso Variables. On the other side, it is a much more difficult and complicated road than a Breville. The 51mm Portafilter is a plus( see Lance H). Maybe that is why I love my Lucca X58 HX with flow control. I love the hands on manual control. With the PID, heat stability is a quick flush.
The drip machine comment made me chuckle. I've not met another non coffee nerd (or another expat), in my 13 years of living in Spain, that owns one. Though to be fair, not many of my friends have espresso machines either. Moka pot, nespresso machines and instant. Though having espresso out seems more the norm here as it is an excuse to be social or simply not at home. But I digress. Anyway, my first espresso machine was a Flair Classic, and I slogged through that for 9 months before getting my Bambino Plus. I'd never go back. The workflow just isn't for me. Now, I love my Flair 58! In fact, I normally pull my shots with that and steam with the Bambino Plus. As always, nicely put together video, thank you for sharing it.
coming from a Signature (Classic+pressure gauge) to a Pro2 and then buying 58 - i don't see much of an upgrade here. if it drops so much heat just like you tested, it's a Pro2 "plus" to my opinion. there's nothing new here. and the funnel..? comeon..i used to put the Pro2 brewhead inside the kettle, using the outer Aeropress cylinder to hold it. there are so many ways to do it. it's a nice addition - but again, nothing special
I have a Flair Neo at home. It came with V2 basket (removable bottom part). Than I bought black basket (non - pressurized). Than I bought off-company tamper and distributor combo. Than pressure kit. Than red pressurised basket broke. After few months of not using it because of time I noticed that even that newer black is totally broken, whole side is leaking water.
I think the 58 solves most of the downsides, turn it on, grind and add hot water. It is also pretty easy shot to shot. Compared to a regular expresso, you need to get all the water out of the group before you can go to the next which is an extra step.
Because I love manual Lever Espresso Machines, if someone wants to make a few shots in a row, I'd recommend a used La Pavoni Europiccola or Pro. and with a very cheap upgrade you can steam milk pretty well (for the Latte-Lovers).
I am using a flair neo for a while now the most basic of all these flair machine i also use manual coffee grinder.. its really time consuming but men the espresso i pulled everytime was worth all the work instead of buying in coffee shops....
I don't mind fiddly coffee processes, and I don't have the counter space for a full espresso machine anyway right now. I also don't have the budget for a Flair Pro 3 at the moment, but when I'm a bit more solvent I might pick up a NEO Flex, and figure out if manual espresso is compatible with my permanently injured wrist that makes manual grinders a non-starter for me. I've been curious about these machines since I first saw James Hoffmann talking about them, and I appreciate another perspective.
Look into the unitera nomad with a history of wrist injury! I adore mine and it gives all the functionality (plus the ability to do sprovers) of the flair pro line in a smaller more ergonomic footprint.
I feel like Cafelat Robot is the perfect balance of enough control without too much hassle. I get that Flair was founded on using regular portafilter with Flair 58 but this doesn't so... I don't see why they didn't go with integrated thin walled basket. Maybe for identity's sake and potential copycat callout? who knows
I think the 58 has all your pros and almost none of your cons, other than the milk part but it's not that bad. My workflow with Flair 58+. Start preheating the flair. Eat breakfast. Begin preheat kettle and bellman at the same time. Grind, wdt, tamp. Pull shot then steam milk
@driftadvocate1839 Biggest thing is it has electric preheating so you don't have to faff about with preheating. But also it uses a standard portafilter that just locks in the same as it would in a more traditional espresso machine. Other than physically having to pull a lever it's not really all that different to use from a traditional espresso machine. Prep your puck, tamp, put the puck screen on top, lock in, pour some water in the top of the Flair, pull your shot.
1,30 minutes in the video and first thought: with the robot I would already have my ready. No assembly/disassembly fuss. Basket=brewchamber. And for most of my needs not even a need to preheat (like medium to medium dark) 2 minutes from zero to shot. Just love.
I find the 58 very forgiving as well, but more sensitive to grind. I find the narrow bed opens the sweet spot a little more and can make grinders that may not be top tier more forgiving. The 58 is fantastic but absolutely nothing wrong with the lower diameter models
Somebody help me understand, Flair claims no preheat required but temp drops 15 degrees, which means you would brew with 85 degrees which would result in sour coffee.....why would they advocate for no preheat in this case?
🤖🤖🤖 I’ve never used a flair but it looks fun. I love manual espresso. I have a robot and have pulled about 2000 shots through it. I love it and it seems a bit more streamlined to me. Anyone have both and have a comparison?
"Is that actually worth it?" Legitimately something my spouse has said to me. I look over at her hunched backed like some sort of coffee goblin.... yes, yes it is hah
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
As fast pace the world is, it's good to spend 5-10 minutes on just one thing, prepping your espresso. It's the most therapeutic thing.
Agreed. It is therapeutic. I just prefer it before my kids are awake 🤣
@@DaddyGotCoffee I feel that. I have this manual grinder / manual lever machine flow when my son is sleeping and electric grinder / vibration pump when he's awake.
@@DaddyGotCoffee i got 5-month-old and you just gave me a flash of horrors for the upcoming months. 👻
I love how the cafelat robot has a shower screen with a little rubber piece in the middle that allows you to take it out a lot easier after pulling a shot.
Flair made a very compelling update here. I can see why people would choose this over a cafelat robot after this update at the price point its at. The mirror+preheat funnel is very cool.
It’s sad. I bought the cafélat robot like two years ago and sometimes I get the “upgrade espresso itch-itus” but every time I look at the specifics, it never makes sense. The robot is all metal, no preheat for medium/dark (which I prefer), simple workflow, pressure gauge…. What else do you need!?! They figured it out!
Between the robot and the pico for the office/travel I’m espresso happy.
Great video!
I have an e61 dual boiler machine and I’m looking to downsize to the robot. Tired of all the maintenance!
Honestly, I love it and all my friends who I make shots for love it. Zero maintenance.
If you like light roasts you’ll need a preheat but it’s easy enough to do. But if you do medium or dark roasts you’ll be even happier.
Got the flair pro 2 about 6 months ago, I'm primarily a pour over enthusiast, and thought that this would be a great way to get into espresso.
I do enjoy the process, however, after learning the process, I dont think, all things considered, that's it's much more laborious over a manual electric machine, being that you don't have to deal with any of the maintenance etc, and once you get the hang of it, it's real easy to make great espresso, for this price, it's really amazing. Additionally, according to lance hedrick that deeper pucks make better espresso, the size can be a feature, not a bug.
Albeit, i find it completely impractical to use it as a portable machine.
Same. It is really no more work, just our brain interprets it is maybe. But i agree ive never felt like its more or less work to pull a shot on either.
Considering to get one now with the offers, overall how much time do you calculate each shot may take u? Only possible drawback for me is not being able to work 2-3 cups on a few mins..... Let's say for gatherings and such..
@@javierpenarandach.1756 I have clocked from grind, boil, fill, and pull, AND then clean takes about 12ish minutes. This is with my hand grinder. I'll pull 3-5 shots in about 20-30 minutes at the start of the week and then chill them because I like iced drinks. If you had an electric grinder you can easily pull 3-4 shots in 20 minutes, including clean up. And you always will continue to just get faster with your workflow as you practice. Hope this helps
Little tip for all the flair owners. It you own a medium sized moka pot, the brew chamber fits perfectly on that. If you manual grind, my workflow is: put the moka base on the stove, place the chamber on top, and the silcion cap on top of that. Grind my coffee, then set a kettle to boi. Coffee and boiling water are ready after around 5min. Then the chamber boils, and reaches temp quite fast. Before pulling the shot, ill put the portafilter on top for 5 seconds until its warm to the touch, wipe it dry, prep my puck and put it into the flair. Then wait til my kettle is at rolling boil again, take the chamber off the moka base, pour boiling water in and pull the shot. Sounds a bit finicy, but works smoothly and everything times quite well. Also you can stack up brew chambers for multiple back to back shots. In this case i dont preheat the portafilters, but just prep all three that i have. Then just take the hot brew chambers and pull shots back to back
Thank you for dropping this! I almost included the moka pot warming method in this video!
@@DaddyGotCoffee dont want to plug anything, as im not intending to taking my chanel anywhere, but if anyone reads the info, ill have one video up where i show the setup (and general realtime workflow, including C40 grinding^^) for the pro 2 :)
@@Caffeine.And.Carvingsthis is great! Feel free to reply here with the link once it’s up so people can find that more easily! 😊☕️
@DaddyGotCoffee sure thing :) th-cam.com/video/Sbpm1T-24mk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7XKeD9xUCYolV3nx would also love a video comparing the upgrade from the 58+ to the 58+2. This would be my next final upgrade, as you rightly mentioned in the video. Once on Lever, its tough to go to a fully fledged machine
If you want to get into manual espresso I'd say go cheap or go all out.
Flair neo Flex for cheapest option and Cafelat Robot or Flair 58 for all out. IMO everything in between is just not worth it. I started with the Flair Signature and it was just too messy and and annoying to deal with so I ended up selling it very soon after to buy a Cafelat Robot.
The Robot just made everything soo much smoother and enjoyable to work with. But to be honest I mostly do pour over now.
You forgot one thing, it's maintenance free than the electrical machine. It's the main reason I bought the manual machine, it will last decades.
This is a great point! Also, I’m the event anything does break, it’s super easy to get parts direct from flair
We will see in 50 years if Flair will last decades, meanwhile I will enjoy my electrical La Pavoni from 1976
La pavoni europiccola is the best, for me. @@DuBstep115
In terms of workflow and “fiddling around” with many parts, I find that the flair is much simpler and more straightforward than any electric.
Love my pro 2 all the way.
I initially bought a Flair Signature because it's effectively a silent espresso machine. However the flair workflow is horrific; handling hot (boiling) preheated chunks of metal is trickly at the best of times, but then to have to squeeze it into a ring, align a plunger and try to quasi-temperature surf at the same time means a lot of burns. My Flair signature sat mostly unused while I made pour-overs until I sourced a used La Pavoni which really streamlines the process, is similarly a manual lever, similarly quiet and much easier to manage (even if the boiler will burn too).
I should really review a La Pavoni. Thanks for dropping your experience. They have gotten better over the years, but still more tedious than other methods or manual espresso makers
I cant believe you don't have 5 times as many followers! Thanks for another great video!
Have the Flair Go coming, very excited to see if that one will be good or bad
Another beautifully made video as usual!
@12:31 Why did you not do a 1:1 test of the new Pro 3 vs. the old one with a boiling water pre-heat, as opposed to just steaming with the new Pro 3? It would have been interesting to see how much the temp dropped on new Pro 3 with a boiling water pre-heat.
Owned both a Flair Signature and Wacaco Picopresso. In terms of preheating and workflow, the Flairs are hard to use. Touching hot metal when preheating on top of a kettle is a pain which made me buy cooking gloves. Accessories such as levellers were also hard to come by (tho Crema sells one). Then cleaning up also means touching that hot cylinder as you also need to remove the portafilter then eject the pressure gauge steel plunger. Then I got myself a Picopresso which is easier to preheat and cleanup (and also retains heat better). You get accessories too as it uses a 51mm basket and it got even better when they started selling the pressure gauge attachment and the stand. But ngl, the flair still makes better shots and is more forgiving on grind quality.
Agreed all around on this.
Wait what? I ordered a Flair Pro 2 on a warehouse clearance. I got the funnel, the mirror etc. I think they sent me a Pro 3!!!! Let’s go!
I also started my espresso journey with a ROK Espresso maxhine and ROK grinder. It us a great way tobreally learn about the Espresso Variables. On the other side, it is a much more difficult and complicated road than a Breville. The 51mm Portafilter is a plus( see Lance H). Maybe that is why I love my Lucca X58 HX with flow control. I love the hands on manual control. With the PID, heat stability is a quick flush.
The drip machine comment made me chuckle. I've not met another non coffee nerd (or another expat), in my 13 years of living in Spain, that owns one. Though to be fair, not many of my friends have espresso machines either. Moka pot, nespresso machines and instant. Though having espresso out seems more the norm here as it is an excuse to be social or simply not at home. But I digress.
Anyway, my first espresso machine was a Flair Classic, and I slogged through that for 9 months before getting my Bambino Plus. I'd never go back. The workflow just isn't for me. Now, I love my Flair 58! In fact, I normally pull my shots with that and steam with the Bambino Plus.
As always, nicely put together video, thank you for sharing it.
Super thorough review. Very informative and great tutorial
coming from a Signature (Classic+pressure gauge) to a Pro2 and then buying 58 - i don't see much of an upgrade here. if it drops so much heat just like you tested, it's a Pro2 "plus" to my opinion. there's nothing new here. and the funnel..? comeon..i used to put the Pro2 brewhead inside the kettle, using the outer Aeropress cylinder to hold it. there are so many ways to do it. it's a nice addition - but again, nothing special
I have a Flair Neo at home. It came with V2 basket (removable bottom part). Than I bought black basket (non - pressurized). Than I bought off-company tamper and distributor combo. Than pressure kit. Than red pressurised basket broke. After few months of not using it because of time I noticed that even that newer black is totally broken, whole side is leaking water.
Excellent review, thanks. Just one though on the Second shot assembly; it was made for the Pro and Pro 2, does it work for the Pro 3?
The pro 3 version of the second shot is not yet available but apparently it will be at some point!
I think the 58 solves most of the downsides, turn it on, grind and add hot water. It is also pretty easy shot to shot. Compared to a regular expresso, you need to get all the water out of the group before you can go to the next which is an extra step.
Does the Pro 3 Brewing head fit in the Pro 2?
Because I love manual Lever Espresso Machines, if someone wants to make a few shots in a row, I'd recommend a used La Pavoni Europiccola or Pro. and with a very cheap upgrade you can steam milk pretty well (for the Latte-Lovers).
I am using a flair neo for a while now the most basic of all these flair machine i also use manual coffee grinder.. its really time consuming but men the espresso i pulled everytime was worth all the work instead of buying in coffee shops....
Love the tamping stand at 06:23. Any links for it?
Nice review. Thank you
I have no interest in espresso, but I watch because your videos are incredible. Cheers!
Is it possible to use the new Brew Cylinder (from Pro 3) with the old Flair espresso Pro 2 stand?
Yes
I think the Dreo Baristamaker could be a great pair with this
Yup totally!
What’s the best 49 or 54mm lever machine?
I don't mind fiddly coffee processes, and I don't have the counter space for a full espresso machine anyway right now. I also don't have the budget for a Flair Pro 3 at the moment, but when I'm a bit more solvent I might pick up a NEO Flex, and figure out if manual espresso is compatible with my permanently injured wrist that makes manual grinders a non-starter for me. I've been curious about these machines since I first saw James Hoffmann talking about them, and I appreciate another perspective.
Look into the unitera nomad with a history of wrist injury! I adore mine and it gives all the functionality (plus the ability to do sprovers) of the flair pro line in a smaller more ergonomic footprint.
Hard to go wrong with the Neo Flex. I should review the Nomad too!
I feel like Cafelat Robot is the perfect balance of enough control without too much hassle. I get that Flair was founded on using regular portafilter with Flair 58 but this doesn't so... I don't see why they didn't go with integrated thin walled basket.
Maybe for identity's sake and potential copycat callout? who knows
It is pretty good but you just can't compare the number of steps with the Robot.
I think the 58 has all your pros and almost none of your cons, other than the milk part but it's not that bad. My workflow with Flair 58+. Start preheating the flair. Eat breakfast. Begin preheat kettle and bellman at the same time. Grind, wdt, tamp. Pull shot then steam milk
Is it common to get to 9 bar pressures in the flair pro family? As he was pulling mid shot he was still only around 6.
Workflow on the 58 is dramatically better. Honestly just go for that.
why?
@driftadvocate1839 Biggest thing is it has electric preheating so you don't have to faff about with preheating. But also it uses a standard portafilter that just locks in the same as it would in a more traditional espresso machine. Other than physically having to pull a lever it's not really all that different to use from a traditional espresso machine. Prep your puck, tamp, put the puck screen on top, lock in, pour some water in the top of the Flair, pull your shot.
@@kevadu thank you for explaining that!
Yeah no, Robot still reigns as king. All hail the robot
I really need to get an official review of the robot up. It’s more expensive but great 🤖
1,30 minutes in the video and first thought: with the robot I would already have my ready.
No assembly/disassembly fuss.
Basket=brewchamber. And for most of my needs not even a need to preheat (like medium to medium dark)
2 minutes from zero to shot.
Just love.
With the renewed focus on bed depth, do you find it easier or more consistent to pull a very tasty shot on the 3 vs the 58?
I find the 58 very forgiving as well, but more sensitive to grind. I find the narrow bed opens the sweet spot a little more and can make grinders that may not be top tier more forgiving. The 58 is fantastic but absolutely nothing wrong with the lower diameter models
I wish they would update the frame to accommodate a bigger scale
huh ive had a flair pro 2 for yrs now and i think ive been putting the screen upside down
the lady at the flair booth at SCA said the Pro 2 was her favorite based on the style of espresso she likes FWIW
Somebody help me understand, Flair claims no preheat required but temp drops 15 degrees, which means you would brew with 85 degrees which would result in sour coffee.....why would they advocate for no preheat in this case?
🤖🤖🤖 I’ve never used a flair but it looks fun. I love manual espresso. I have a robot and have pulled about 2000 shots through it. I love it and it seems a bit more streamlined to me. Anyone have both and have a comparison?
I need to get my hands on a Robot!
@ well, *when* you do, I look forward to watching your comparison video.
I just boil the whole chamber. Stick it in the kettle while I boil the water. Have to move it with tongs.
2:52 חסד? הסבר דחוף אחייי
"Is that actually worth it?" Legitimately something my spouse has said to me. I look over at her hunched backed like some sort of coffee goblin.... yes, yes it is hah
🤣🤣💯💯
If i was home.more i.would.get one I barely have time to roast my own coffee
Light roast coffee lol does not look anything like a light roast
it must be flair pro 2+
Take my 9barista any day ☕️
I really like the 9barista
As a robot owner, the workflow for the flair feels incredibly clunky.
I’ve got a robot review in queue 👀
why the red valve and copper holder. So ugly
why do you constantly say "this thing"? It's not professional. You are a terrible brand ambassador.
I’m not a brand ambassador 😎