After spending so much time and energy getting her, why do you think Henry abandoned Anne and had her executed? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
Because she wasn't giving him the son he so wanted. Plus, she didn't agree with how the money stolen from the monasteries was managed by Cromwell on her husband's behalf.
The thrill of the chase had dissipated. After 10 years of pursuing Anne and moving heaven and earth to marry her, Henry's ardour cooled once he captured his prey. Anne's failure to produce a male heir, her less than submissive personality (once so attractive to him) and Henry's wandering eye coalesced in him wanting to move onto a more compliant partner. Given the political cost of the marriage, culminating in Wolsey and More's deaths, Cromwell's influence and the break with Rome, Anne probably was a convenient scapegoat to blame. The fact that he went out hunting on the day Anne was executed and his hasty marriage to Jane Seymour almost immediately afterwards makes it all the more plausible that Henry had been "setting up" Anne to be unjustly accused of treason for a while beforehand. By the way, I've only just stumbled upon your channel as one of your videos popped up in my YT feed. Now I'm hooked and avidly catching up with watching the rest. I love the content as you are very specific and methodical in your use of historical evidence to reconstruct what may have happened yet at the same time debunking unreliable sources. Your narration is expressive and crystal clear (with a bit of a lilt), which easily draws your audience into delving into the past with you. I'm looking forward to watching future content.
@Margaret Muns Margaret, I didn't think about the head trauma affecting Henry's behaviour, that makes total sense. Thanks for sharing your medical perspective and expertise. The other thing I like about this channel is the comment section. The viewers of this channel are clearly passionate about history and have so many intriguing insights regarding the subject matter, like yourself.
I have always felt ver sorry for Anne. Unable to avoid his intentions in the beginning and his victim at the end. Imagine having to die leaving your 3 year old child behind knowing her father was such a monster.
Henry’s problem was himself, masked as boredom and desperation for his own line to live on. I think he projected onto Anne all of his displeasures in life, everything that he felt had let him down, including a subconscious awareness of his failing potency and age. He was too narcissistic to accept HE had failings, it was far easier to blame Anne for everything, as he had a narcissist’s tunnel vision that everything in the world should bend to suit him. He finally got the prize, Anne, but now it wasn’t so bright as it didn’t result in a son. Anne was conquered territory gone sour, and his ego insisted he keep looking for the ideal…something he would never have found, because he didn’t want a real wife, just a willing, obedient womb with no mind attached. If it had been able to deliver him a son, Henry would have been happiest with a mirror, because Henry was Henry’s first and only real love. Every one of his wives deserved FAR better! And Anne had the last laugh with Elizabeth’s magnificent reign.
Totally agree. I have watched a narcissist-smart woman relationship follow the Henry-Anne trajectory in the last couple of years. You describe it perfectly.
The way Henry fervently declares his love to Anne sounds rather like an infatuation, the kind that’s quick to burn and quick to die. That explains why it didn’t last long.
The pursuit was what he was enchanted by. Once he won her heart the bloom fell off the rose as they say. Their story is very fascinating to me even today.
This made me see Anne in a different light. She was not the seductress people made her out to be and was in many ways a victim of Henry VIII'S machinations, and showed remarkable fortitude like her predecessor in standing up to him.
I recently did a quest in ESO that reminds me of Anne 'playing hard to get' with Henry. There's a quest giver who's fallen in love with his mother's slave, and they're both in love, but his mother won't sell her to him bc of the scandal. He asks you to help. Well, after successfully gathering the things the mother wants in exchange to free her, the 'so in love' woman reveals that he's a stalker. But she can't outright reject him bc he's the son of her master. That's how i view the early relationship of Henry and Anne. He's a king, and he's been shown to be unstable. Henry stalked her, scared away potential suitors in a time when that was the only way for a woman to advance, and kept writing to her despite her leaving court. That must have been terrifying!!! Wtf do you do when the highest authority in your country is stalking you?
I honestly wish one of poor Catherine’s boys had survived. She put up with a lot to be so unceremoniously discarded…and really Mary might have been a good queen if she hadn’t been so abused and consequently resentful because of her mother’s treatment.
I think if Anne had her son after Elizabeth, England probable would have still had her as Queen, just much later. Keep in mind, that Anne miscarried a boy when she found out Henry had been injured in his jousting match as a time, and had a concussion where he was unconscious for a full two hours before regaining consciousness. I think that the news should have been told to Anne after having this new child.
My take on Henry VIII was he got easily bored. With women, friends, etc. He liked to be entertained. When he wasn't enjoying himself anymore he wanted to move on regardless of who it hurt.
So glad I found your channel…I love history, especially history around the British Isles and Western Europe. My personal opinion (as someone with a medical background) is that Henry may have been a sociopath/psychopath or at very least had a narcissistic personality disorder. It would not be far fetched as many monarchs who came to rule at a younger age display these characteristics. Brain development shows us that the prefrontal cortex is not finished developing until the mid 20’s generally and therefore someone given such absolute power at a very young age accompanied by all of the flattery etc that goes with it could have helped to develop this. He was very charming, handsome, powerful and appears to be without empathy. That being said I do think it is not correct to use modern day values to judge people living hundreds of years ago in an entirely different cultural context. (For example, it would be inappropriate to label a 35 year old man a pedophile for marrying a 12 or 13 year old girl when in that context…there was very little consideration of childhood as a separate thing than adulthood) I do believe Henry was a spoiled brat who never grew up. Whether it was a mental health condition or simply a product of his environment…he obviously never learned to take “no” for an answer and seemed to have very little concern or awareness that the people around him were actually people in their own right. He seemed to view everyone as a plaything. And even with very spoiled princes of the time, it seemed to be viewed as an oddity by most contemporaries.
You should definitely come back for tomorrow and next week's videos please, as I specifically ask some medical questions tomorrow which I couldn't answer myself and next week's will be to do with Henry's personality, so a lot of what you're saying here would be very pertinent. This is a great comment. Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you're enjoying the channel.
I think the reason Henry had Anne killed was to avoid another “messy divorce”. Katherine had fought him over putting her aside and he never got his annulment. What must have gone through his mind when Katherine died,! ? Suddenly he was truly free, in the eyes of Rome to marry again. Rome had never recognized his marriage to Anne anyway. But there she was. I did read Anne was that she was hoping Henry would allow her to withdraw to a convent, like he had wanted Katherine to do. Rome would have accepted Katherine’s decision to withdraw because she could not give him a a son., but Katherine resisted to the last. I think Henry did not want Anne anymore for all the reasons you listed, but he also did not want another ex-wife around to cause trouble in the future.
I agree actually, that another former wife hanging around wouldn't have been to his liking, even if she wasn't ever married to him in the eyes of Rome, or (after he got his own annulment in England) in his own realm.
She was guilty of adultery in the eyes of her contemporaries Only later on she was seen as a victim of circumstances Her own daughter did nothing to give her a better burial or honor her memory She was atrociously unfair to all by taking advantage of the weakness of a man obsessed with an heir She paid with her life her arrogance and disrespect of the royalty
Yes, and if he had had to divorce her/annul the marriage it might have further muddied the succession if her successor had a child. With Anne dead, no one could claim that, for example, Edward was illegitimate because his parents weren't legally married.
If Queen Anne had a son, I think her position would of been secured. I think you mentioned all the reasons that culminated to her condemnation. Henry & Anne had a somewhat long relationship; together for a decade.
I think so too. Even if Henry hadn't been in love with her any more, I don't think he would have risked the line of succession by saying that he wasn't legally married to his son's mother. I always find it interesting to hear what other people think of this situation however, as I find different people tend to put emphasis on different factors. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Here's my theory based on real-life observation: When a narcissist pursues the prize of an intelligent woman, especially an argumentative one, he later tires of her and blames her for his misfortunes. Her intelligence makes her exceptionally attractive, at first, in comparison to more worshipful women, but his narcissism cannot tolerate continued challenges to his belief in his wonderfulness. Oh - I just looked at other comments which basically say the same thing!
if she truly had betrayed him with all those men he would not have sent for a swordsman from France. He had a rare pang of conscience to save her from more horrible death. If he believed her guilty he would have wanted her to suffer
I often wonder if Henry's "mercy" in summoning the French executioner, to kill Anne, was ever a true mercy at all.. I've wondered, if this act of mercy was Henry, actually being spitefully sadistic, and using Anne's "French style" against Her. In the Tudor time period, English people often accused the French ( the French Court, especially) of being "light" and of "loose moral values" (even some sexual acts that were seen as "base" or "vulgar" were referred to being "of the French fashion" or "French persuasion", in Tudor times ). Part of Henry's initial attraction to Anne, was due to Her "being taken as a French Woman born", Her French style of dress, the French customs Anne had picked up, the accent She'd developed etc etc. Was Henry actually trying to destroy, what He perceived to be, Anne's 'sex appeal'? By having Anne killed in the French manner, She thought so highly of?? Was He also sending a message, of sorts, to the English people, perhaps the French too, in a way? By implying that no Man, even a King, could "control" His Wife's wanton unnatural, sexual appetites if She was too "French"? Henry also knew of Anne's love of France..His enemy. I often wonder if He was mocking Anne, even though He had already stripped Her of all dignity (in His eye's, at least). Was the French Executioner, the final twist of Henry's knife into Anne's psyche?? Jane Seymour happened to ban French dresses for Her ladies, at court too. I wonder if Henry told Jane, that French style was "immoral" or some such, as it reminded Him of Anne? Just my thoughts. Great video as always!
You make an interesting point. Whether he meant it as a mercy or not though, I still think it was a better way to go than with the axe, as the latter could be so easily botched (and was in many instances, such as the countess of Salisbury and Mary, Queen of Scots, to name but a couple). He did spare her from burning, so there was some element of mercy. It's interesting that Catherine Howard didn't get a sword, but then there was better evidence of her guilt, so perhaps Henry wanted her to suffer more.
@@HistoryCalling Very true, I agree that murder by axe was barbaric. However, if someone died by axe they could faint, or even be dragged to the block and still be killed. Anne had to stay on Her knees, without moving for the swordsman's swipe to be effective. Anne showed incredible bravery during her execution. Her killing could of just as easily been botched if She moved in any way. A terrible death...
Anne still has the last laugh all the other children died and Anne's daughter, she lived a long life and Anne Boleyn is more popular today hundreds of years later then her enemies were when they were alive!
King Henry was intimidated by warrior Queen Katherine and her powerful Spanish family also in line with Catholics and Rome. He struggled for his own authority and religion and used the love of Queen Anne as an escape from its control over him. When Anne got everything she wanted and couldn't produce a live male heir, she came at to high of a cost and he was losing public respect. Trumped up charges to be rid of it all.
Yes, I think her lack of a son was the clincher as well. If she'd had her boy in 1536, I think Jane Seymour would probably be a footnote in history, at best.
@@HistoryCalling There's a trio of historical fiction books by Laura Anderson that play on the supposition of what if Anne's boy had been born. It was a quick and great read
Henry was a narcissist. His disposal of his faithful queen, his pursuit of someone who obviously didn’t want him and discarding he just as easily…Henry seemed to see people only in the light of himself and not as actual other people to himself
Papal authority had been contested several times in the past most notably by Henry II. But this time, with the nascent reformation movement, alternatives, including a complete split from Rome, were seriously contemplated for the first time. Henry's need for income, provided a strong incentive, as he acquired the wealth of the monasteries both for his own uses and to create a new class of wealthy landowners beholden to him. He also needed substantial wealth if he wanted to compete with Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and King Francis, the big players on the Continent. Obviously, his monomania about a male heir played a central role, but it was not the only factor. Finally, Anne played a dangerous game. She was not well liked, many considered her a w---e for marrying Henry when he had a living spouse, and at the time there was no substantive support in the country for a complete break with Rome. Eventually, in the King's eyes, she may have damaged goods and ill omened, and God's judgement on the marriage was her inability to bring a male heir to full term. With Queen Katherine dead, removing Anne would bring the whole episode to an end. We can't forget that Henry's theology remained essentially Catholic until his death, just shorn of the pope, mettling clerics, and monasteries.
I believe Henry had Anne executed for a number of reasons. First, her strong personality. Then she miscarried a son. I think Henry thought history was repeating itself. Then he fell for Jayne. Jayne’s personality seemed to be the opposite of Anne’s. Thank you for the great video. I love history. New subscriber!
Hi Elaine, welcome to the channel and thank you so much for watching, commenting and subscribing. I think that's a great, succinct little summary of the reasons the Boleyn marriage fell apart :-)
Henry was tired of a superficial tyrant Jane was serious and stern ( just look at her picture ), closer to his first wife in feminine conduct Besides Jane had been loyal to Catherine of Aragon and became close to Mary facilitating a family reunion while at the same time indirectly provoking the fall of Boleyn whom Jane must have despised for her betrayal of the queen
I think Anne brought with her from the French court a certain playful flirtatiousness to the English Court, where it was widely misinterpreted to her peril.
There’s no way Henry believed the charges against Anne. He was not the kind of personality that would act so calmly if he truly thought he’d been cheated on. She had become an inconvenience: she hadn’t given him a son, she didn’t blindly accept his faults, and she was causing trouble for him politically, with the Emperor l
I’ve often wondered why the later Queens would even go near the homicidal maniac of a King; but then I think of all of the narcissists that I’ve known and the power they could wield over more empathic hearts, and it makes better sense.
He was the King of England, you couldnt just refuse him unless you were part of some major royal family who valued your life a little. Anne of Cleves was a diplomatic bride and her family was probably just too eager to turn down the chance to have a Queen in the family. As for the others they were just English noblewomen (and Katherine Howard was a girl at that) so would have trouble refusing him
Haha, thank you. On accents, one of my friends is English (London accent) and his wife teases him about that fact that he says poor/paw/pour the same way.
@@HistoryCalling I‘d never (consciously) hear anyone speak with a Northern Irish accent before, just love it :) Thanks again for your videos, I really appreciated your objective review of the new documentary on the princes in the Tower, as well.
He was an A-1 NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDERED WEAK -MINDED King ...almost a great deal of men are. I've Always admired both Catherine and Ann, BOTH were TOO GOOD for him!!!
@@GradKat Also, the wife murdering psycho, what a catch! I'd argue that all of the poor women who he had any contact with were too good for him, but yeah I feel for Catherine and Ann the most, and although I know Ann was no saint, but she had the potential to be a great queen (Elizabeth in my eyes is very much her mother's daughter) if only sick and twisted bastard didn't murder her with cold blood.
@@HistoryCalling - I have studied this personality disorder for 2 years. He absolutely, no doubt in my mind suffered from NPD. Of course, we can’t diagnose him for the obvious reasons. Most narcissists are unaware. The victims of the narcissist are the one closest to them. They suffer. This is actually part of the reason I’m visiting this channel. Thank you for your work.
I really look forward to watching these videos history has always been a passion of mine. I love how the videos are so well put together and rely the facts well clear and concise . Am loving these Tudor episodes especially as I studied Russian history from Catherine the Great through to the Cold War and the whole of German history from WW1 through to WW2 and the Cold War . So re-learning English history is fabulous. Thank you so much for all the effort and time you’ve spent researching and editing to make these videos for us all to learn and enjoy ☺️ 💕☺️🥰❤️🥰
Fascinating and very well narrated. I believe Henry just wanted to go on to another wife to try for a male child and Anne was in the way , just as Katherine of Aragon was. Therefore, anything that was said or reported back to him, that didn’t look good for Anne, he jumped on it and used it against her to get his way. Very selfish man indeed!!
Love your Tudor Videos👑They are captivating and interesting. Thank you for your effort in bringing us closer to English history in such an exciting way
Anne was educated in her formative years in France where reformed doctrine was abroad. I understand she brought these ideas to the English court. However, I wonder if modern screenwriters would properly understand the spiritual dimension of Anne’s influence.
She was indeed educated abroad, however she was mainly in the very Catholic France, so I think she picked up her reforming ideas once she was back in England. As for how modern screenwriters interpret her, I feel sorry for them sometimes, as I think it can be difficult to get a real grasp on Anne and exactly what her beliefs and influence were. So much of what we know about her comes from the comments of other (often hostile) people, like the Imperial ambassador, Eustace Chapuys. We don't have that much that comes directly from the woman herself, so she's a bit of an enigma. It's probably why screen interpretations of her are so wildly different.
@@HistoryCalling thanks for an informative and considered response to my comment. Nevertheless, was it not the case that at the time Anne was living in the continent, not just France,, she was instructed in the new reformed ideas?. (I’m no historian, if I was a screenwriter I would probably have Anne almost singlehandedly bringing the reformation to England! ) . Many thanks.
@@davidrichard2761 You know, I must confess that I don't know exactly what instruction she received in France and at Margaret of Austria's court. That portion of her life is quite hazy unfortunately. I would say that Martin Luther's 95 theses, which really kickstarted the Reformation, only came out in 1517, about 4 years before Anne went back to England, so she may well have heard of them, but it's hard to know how much of an impact they would have made on her at that point in her life. Whilst in France she could well have been influenced by the (at the time) quite radical thinking of Marguerite de Navarre, who was the French King's sister, but this is conjecture. It's interesting conjecture though and always fun to debate Anne's life, especially the continental years as they often don't get much attention when you see screen portrayals of her, yet they took up quite a large portion of her short life. I hope that helps. I know it was a bit short on solid conclusions, but as I said, it's just so hard to pin down exactly what she was up to at that point in time.
The spiritual dimention of Boleyn was that she learned how to have fun at court and how to play her cards to crush others in the pursuit of absolute power I would not be surprised if she had survived that she would have undermined Henry when he was becoming weaker and sicker
@@angelabender8132 interesting, but however ruthless people are and however much we might despise other’s personalities, surely introducing reformed material in itself seeded independent thinking given that Romanised religion was imposed on society in those days. Did she not have a part in this?
What a great video! I've read all of Henry's letters, what a romantic! He even offered her the chance to report her feelings to him by word, and not in writing. Very few things "undo" that level of affection for another. I believe Henry was bamboozled by his people concerning Anne's fabricated crimes. So I do have a feeling that Cromwell is somewhat responsible. I also feel there's a possible parallel in the big picture. I've read that despite Henry's turn on Rome, and his taking over the Church of England, that long term, to his deathbed, and very deep down inside, privately, he was still a true Catholic. The parallel may be, that despite all that happened with Anne, the politics and drama between her and Henry in Court, and her ultimate execution, that deep down inside, privately, he still loved her. He let his obsession for a male heir, ego, and reputation govern the forging of his actions to be compliant with all the fake advice from advisors, leading to Anne's execution Thinking of it from his point of view, the guilt he may have felt from knowingly breaking Anne's heart, and Katherine's heart, stayed with, and haunted him. And even greater than that, I think he felt overall that God was punishing him long term in many respects, and he was motivated to constantly move forward, with blinders on, attempting to rectify any shortcomings with his creator. But he sadly was perhaps mistaking love for power and duty.
I think there are a couple of things. Anne in some ways out shone Henry, kinda like Princess Di did with Charles. She brought religious texts from France which solidified Henry's thinking into removing the shackles of Rome, but would allow him to marry Anne. As far as NPD, any ruler at this time would have this type of personality, as they were brought up to be so, and women at that time were there for breeding with little say. Anne lifted herself up too high in the way she berated Henry, and the way that she spoke out in public. She tried for equal footing after being crowned instead of one step behind. Henry gave her too much reign and then allowed it to hang her. Also now that he was unfettered of the church and was the head of religion in England, there were no checks and balances, he could do whatever he wanted. Anne was unpopular, it didn't take much to get rid of her. Henry also had the accident and head injury which possibly brought a personality change, but would have also made him feel vulnerable, he had to acknowledge his youth and athleticism were gone and his own mortality. Possible virility in question as well. Therefore, if Anne was not producing he couldn't waste time and needed to find another candidate and was not going to allow a former wife/queen stay around to muck it up, like Catherine. So off with her head!
I truly believe the whole Tudor line was cursed! It would explain why he wasn't able to have healthy sons with healthy women, or if their blood types weren't compatible with each other too. That usually causes miscarriages too from what I read. 🤔🤔 Its fascinating but tragic. 👀🤦🏽♀️ I think Anne was the only wife who stood up to him and proved she wasn't going to let everything go and be bullied. Strong, formidable, but yes, Karma wasn't kind to her was it? 🥺🥺 I wonder if Anne ever thought of taking Elizabeth and escaping to France, raising her on her own, and hiding there for years until hearing Edward and Mary 1st died, and then going back to England for Elizabeth to take her rightful place as the heir to the throne. That would've been the most badass thing ever in history!! 👑👑❤️🔥❤️🔥 Just Subscribed too! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
I have a question: what, in your opinion, had George Boleyn, William Brereton and Sir Francis Weston done to annoy either Cromwell or the King? I understand why Mark Smeaton and Henry Norris were convicted (Mark confessed - possibly/likely under torture. Can't say I blame him, I'd have probably said whatever I had to say to stop being tortured - to sleeping with Anne, even though I don't believe that he ever did. Anne said to Henry Norris that "if aught came to the King but good, you'd look to have me"), but not the others. I'm interested to hear your thoughts. To be clear, I don't think Anne ever cheated on Henry VIII.
I am enjoying your series on Henry VIII wives, especially Anne. I am Canadian but visited London and of course historic sites. While at the Tower of London I was quite taken up with "Traitors Gate" and the well-worn steps leading up to the courtyard. However, there seems to be some confusion if Anne entered through Traitors Gate or the Court Gate. Do you have any thoughts on this?.
The chronicler Charles Wriothesley specifically says it was the court gate, so I would lean towards that myself. She hadn't been found guilty of anything yet, so Traitors' Gate would be a bit premature. Not impossible though.
Yes, i agree with a commenter here that i also wish that Anne Boleyn had given Henry a living son. I think once she had done that her future would have been cemented. Together with Henry & her scintillating intellect they could have been a phenomenal success & been indeed the golden couple She was certainly capable of charming the birds from the trees & would have helped Henry secure great benefits for England. I know Elizabeth 1 was, in my opinion the greatest Queen & Monarch who ever lived, ever! However, how much happier might she have been to have had a happy reigning father & mother in a successful & rich England Never having to fear for her life or betrayals, & surviving against tremendous odds. Elizabeth 1 could have had a carefree life, married & had children, been loved, still a very charismatic woman she would have been a favourite princess & Whomever she married would have gained an incredible woman Its sad to think of what could have been, for Elizabeth but, we cant change history at least not in this dimention! Haha Apart from the greatness of Elizabeth, her mother, Anne Boleyn was another woman who was extraordinary, she had the sharpest intellect & could debate anyone into the mud. Even her enemy Thomas Cromwell had to praise her & admired her cleverness & planning despite himself. Im pleased Anne didnt marry into the Percy family, she would have been wasted, bored rigid & her worth nullified. If only she could have planned a little better, held her tongue around Henry & placated him instead of causing him turmoil ( As was seen in Robert Deverauxs flippancy with Elizabeth 1, thinking he could get away with huge liberties because he knew she had a weak spot for him & he exploited it & caused his demise Theres only so much a monarch can take ! Like father like daughter) Im sure Henry really was besotted with Anne, it just prooves it because even after 500 yrs, we today are besotted with Anne & everything about her, 500 yrs of us mere mortals still being enthralled by this amazing woman, tells us that Henry had never met anyone like her, i never would. I also think it was when Anne lost her " mojo" & became needy to Henry, wheedling for a second chance to give him a son, that was when the cloth dropped from Henrys eyes, she became ordinary, sniveling & i suppose pathetic If only she had played it cool, there were ways she could have secured her future & given Henry A SON, she was clever enough to pull off anything. I dont know why she lost Henrys interest, it wasnt just because she didnt give him a son, she became weak didnt keep his interest & devotion. Maybe becoming a mother to Elizabeth made her fearful because of the love she felt for her child?? PS could you do a video on the maternal family of Elizabeth Woodville & her mother Jaquetta Rivers & their supposed link to the water spirits & the demon river queen of legend. There isnt the coverage of this historical woman that there should be. Ive read all i can about the supposed witchcraft practised by Jaquetta, her noble background, Her spellcasting to lure King Edward 4 to marry her daughter & the supposed curse on the Tudor line & how it would never last & die out. Info is still sketchy on Elizabeth Woodvilles family & its intrigued me for years. Thank you 👧
Your channel is so great, you ask the most interesting questions on these periods of history. Other channels are far too generic and so if you've seen one you've seen them all! I love the level of detail you investigate! George, BSc with Honours in Quantum physics.
Thank you so much :-) As a scientist I expect you can appreciate the need to ask questions and sift through the evidence which is something I think we have in common, despite being from such different fields.
@@HistoryCalling History and Physics are both much about investigating and carefully analyzing then understanding the hidden truths and empowering details of the forces that shape our world to be as it is, so not as different in this way as you might imagine 🙂. I have always loved both, and my favorite period to learn about is medieval England, my ancestors came from there but I am in New Zealand! I so loved your conclusion btw that Richard III should have blamed Buckingham for the murders of the Princes, that he didn't is almost a smoking gun of his guilt!
Henry was never satisfied. Henry was only for Henry. I feel sorry for all his queens but most especially Anne Boleyn who was innocent 😇 of all charges, had no one to stand up for her, including her father, and was cruelly executed.
I would guess that when Henry had the jousting accident, his advisors pressured him about not yet having a son. It is said Henry's father restricted his son's athletic desires because of danger. Once Henry VIII was king, he took up jousting and other dangerous pursuits. I could imagine old emotional hurts rising in Henry if he was pressured in middle age to curtail sports he loved and to protect himself because he did not yet have a son. Then to enforce the marriage, Anne miscarried a son soon after. Add in a few touches of religious beliefs, astrology and other ideas from the age, and Henry may well have felt cursed with his second marriage. There had been years and years of trying to beget a son, the tearing apart the realm to obtain Anne, then only a daughter and the January 1536 miscarriage of a son. I would guess there would have been a lot of frustration, fear and anger and that Henry may have felt threatened in that he could die and leave the kingdom in chaos for lack of a son. (Which is amazing to me since Henry's mother, Elizabeth of York, strengthened Henry Tudor's claim to the throne. And subsequently Henry's [bastardized] daughters would become queens without disaster befalling the country.) What might the outcome have been if Henry would have put all efforts into recognizing and training a daughter as queen?
But they were educated and expected to rule sooner or later which they did otherwise he would not even have considered them in the succession The paradox must have been when he realized that those 2 females were actually superior in character and intelligence to his male heir who was stupid enough to designate an adolescent cousin to the throne thus causing her death and the death of others who supported her He should have known the power that Mary and Elizabeth already had in the hearts of the English people
Going through family arguments that are very heated, myself, it is odd how just one more is the final straw. For me, I am no longer speaking to that family member. For a King (like King Henry), it is very threatening. Add in Cromwell's dislike (probably hatred) of her, and there is a perfect recipe what happened.
The Pope needed to grant an annulment to Henry and Catherine’s marriage. Henry said it was because of his “troubled conscience” at having married his brother’s widow. However, it was clear that this was not the reason. These letters prove that he wanted to end it to marry Anne. Henry had an affair with Anne’s sister Mary, so technically, this marriage would be invalid for the reason he was requesting the annulment. My guess would be that they were sent there by friends of Catherine or her nephew the Emperor in an attempt to stop any chance of an annulment. They could easily have been stolen by a bribed servant or messenger.
I was about to respond and then saw what a fantastic response Carina has already given. I agree with everything she said. I think they were stolen from Anne to prove the real reason Henry was asking for an annulment. I've always thought it would be amazing to have Anne's side of the correspondence, but I'll bet Henry burnt those letters :-(
Hello again I would like to ask you from where did you get the information for Anne's words to Henry about how she waited for so long to marry Henry. The reason why I'm asking you is because those were the exact same words that Anne said to Henry in the mini series of the Tudor's starring Natalie Dormer who played Anne Boleyn?
I found out I’m descended from Henry Norris. I didn’t know much about him until this video, and wow. It’s wild hearing one of my great-grandfathers was tortured and executed
I think Henry the VIII had NPD. All he cared about was his image as the King. He doesn’t seem to have valued nor have treated any of his wives as nothing but one among his subjects who he was only doing a favour by offering a marriage and the privileges that comes with being a royal consort. Anne’s inability to provide the king with a son, a legitimate heir, was taken as a personal insult by Henry. He was so convinced in his own cooked up charges that he had successfully convinced himself to believe his own lies. On some levels he was a victim of his own complicated mind. That jousting accident must have really messed up his thinking. That’s where my sympathies end for him though. Anne if given a few years may have produced him a son but Henry was so desperate and impatient dreading the long and lengthy divorce process like the one that happened for him with Catherine of Aragon.
Hi Brinda, I'm not a medical doctor, so I don't know about the narcissistic personality disorder, but it wouldn't surprise me. Certainly I think that having everyone do what you say from the age of 17 onwards isn't good for a person and leads to bad (in this case VERY bad) behaviour. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Actually Henry foresaw the changing times and despite his obsession with having male heir and queens ( he wanted to be loved and cared for by a mother figure) he took the sides of the enemies of Rome which was becoming a known immoral guide to the pious Catholics Also the elimination of the convents just followed the end of monacheism in all Europe; he took their treasures but that system was doomed already
Historian Joanne Paul said in a video that there is actually no contemporary evidence that suggest Henry and Anne waited until they were away in Calais in 1532 to smoosh. Is that true?
Henry VIII could turn on people in an instant. Right from the beginning, he had Edmund Dudley and Sir Richard Empson executed to demonstrate the difference between his father's regime and his new reign. He must have know both men for years. Sir Richard was knighted when Henry was created Prince of Wales. He had his own cousin, Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham, executed in 1521 and wiped out many of those with Plantagenet blood. Thomas Moor, Bishop Fisher, The Observant Friars -- all were friends who died at Henry's command.
Henry Stafford planned to usurp the throne from the King. Bishop Fisher refused to swear to the oath that Anne was Queen of England. The other courtiers were corrupt. So, there were reasons for being executed. More was executed for the same reason as Bishop Fisher.
My view is that perhaps Anne wasn't a "femme fatale", (and we know to be Henry's wife wasn't necessarily under each woman's complete control), but given her father's ambitions and her behavior before and after their marriage, I think she definitely manipulated Henry for her own ambitions (no tears for him though). She also clearly had long term determination to see her goals through. Anne played with Henry's emotions (if he had any) to provoke him to divorce Catherine instead of keeping her as a mistress and she challenged his ego when telling him she might find someone else while he dragged his feet. It seems from Henry's letters to Anne while courting her, she had provided some encouragement, along with pushing him away. She was staying out of his sight, making herself more attractive to a man who loved the chase, yet was doing a push-pull in their communications. It's the classic trope of a woman withholding and running away (but giving him a tiny bit of positive encouragement and a challenge) so that the man chases her. But Anne's mistake was in believing that Henry would still want her after he caught her. When his lust was quelled, he got bored and his attention moved to other women-as per his usual m.o. I think Anne saw Henry's weaknessnesses and played on them. If she had given him a son, she might’ve lived, although I highly doubt Henry would've given her his loyalty for the rest of his life.
I don't blame Anne for wanting to be a wife rather than a mistress, but the way Katherine was just discard, it was cruel. That cruelness should have been a massive red flag for Anne. She should have run away.
My family tree goes back to Henry via the Stuarts, Drummonds, etc. (ducks lol) but two marriages make him not a blood relation. I think History Calling may find quite a few descendants and branches replying to these videos!!
Henry was all about believing what was convenience for him. He would NEVER break with Rome, if Catherine had a boy. He was mad because he found out his reformist beliefs had him marry Anne of Cleeves, and he had gone down in influence.
Its seems strange to me that Henry abandoned Anne, it must have been so humiliating for him personally after everything they had been through, i try to imagine what motivated this, but I can't.
Henry VIII was a complete and total scam bag. His treatment of people that "failed" him was horrendous, regardless of their years of friendship and service to him. Cardinal Woolsey and Thomas More especially come to mind, not to mention Queen Catherine and both his daughters. He obviously didn't love anyone but himself!
Well if Anne was willing to steal Henry from his wife Katherine, Anne should not have been surprised that as his wife another woman could steal him from her.
Anne didn’t ‘steal’ Henry. He wasn’t a lamp or a necklace. Henry willingly cheated on Anne and if it wasn’t Anne it would have been another woman. You can’t steal a human being. They make their own choices
In one of your videos about digging up Anne's body, it was noted that she had been missing some teeth. Maybe some of her teeth had rotted out and this had been a final straw for the king, as he absolutely had no longer been attracted to her?
There is a thin line between love and hate and it seems to have been exacerbated by his injuries. They say that after a traumatic head injury a person can change drastically. I believe Henry was not capable of doing this had he never suffered that head injury. I believe the injury made him the ruthless monster and wife killer he became.
If she had managed to provide the much wanted son this would have saved her. Such an irony although the reason for his obsession to have a son is,understandable given the problems with Matilda. The fall from his house in 1536 is also cited as a reason for his change of personality as he suffered a significant concussion. Of course he may just have been a capricious and violent tyrant. He certainly put many people to death. A really good podcast.
I think Anne was innocent. If she was cheating she wouldn't care about what Henrry was doing. I think any excuse to get rid of her would do. He's clearly a narcissist he blows hot and cold. He even threatened Jane. It was about what he wanted, a son. So he could look perfect to his subjects.
Why? Often the cheating ones are the most jealous if their power is in danger of ending She knew of Jane Seymour and she feared her after what she had done to her queen Catherine
I wish that Queen Ann had been able to see that he was truly done with her and had asked him to let her into a nunnery or divorce like he did with Ann of Cleves! She never saw it coming that he would kill her in order to get rid of her😔
So Anne didn't wear yellow. Only Henry. At least according to most contemporary accounts. Anne was intelligent enough to see that it wouldn't be an advantage to behave that way.
Hi Audrianna, thanks for watching and commenting. There are different reports on that. Chapuys said that Henry was dressed all in yellow (I don't believe he commented on what Anne wore at all), while Hall's Chronicle specifically said that 'Quene Anne ware yelowe for the mournyng'. Eric Ives and G.W. Bernard both agree that Anne was in yellow. David Starkey says that Henry was and says that 'recusant tradition' (meaning Nicholas Sander's Anglican Schism, which was drawing its information from Hall) states that Anne was too.
@@HistoryCalling ok. I knew that but between Wriothsley and Chapys not commenting when it would have been to both of their benefit says a lot for the validity of the statements its not like these men were shouches and they would be more likely to be present than Hall. As well as human. Chapuys was human and loved The Queen, so when she died he'd be outraged at the audacity. It would at least be mentioned. There's not even much evidence that yellow was even the mourning colour of Spain. Just my logical inference. I imagine it would act as a rallying cry and neither party wanted another Cousins War.
@@a.munroe Let's agree to disagree :-) I find Hall's comment and the idea that Anne would dress to match Henry compelling enough, but I respect your right to a different opinion and appreciate you taking the time to watch and engage with the video, as getting to chat with people about their different takes on history is (I think) one of the nice things about TH-cam.
Not all the princess's of Europe were fooled by the position to be his next queen luckily(I pretty sure it was after Anne). He 'proposed' to 2 royal women of Europe. To one he supposedly wrote he needed a full figured woman as wife. She said, to paraphrase, her body may body may be big but she had a very short neck. From another he proposed to wrote,to paraphrase, she'd marry him if she had 2 necks, one for herself, the other to be chopped off 😆😆😆! He was definitely determined to have a son and he got rid of one Queen via divorce. He needed a darn good excuse to get rid of Anne, so he made up trumped up charges of adultery.
I've read some intriguing and thought provoking medical articles that suggest HVIII had a disorder that caused all the fertility issues he had (given that he only ever had 1 child with each woman that managed to live more than 60 days). I've also read medical articles that indicate historical descriptions of his behavior over time, and how it takes such a dramatic 180 in middle age, point to a mental disorder. It would be interesting to see how this entire story could be different if medical knowledge were then what it is today. Could Henry and Catherine have had help to keep one of those miscarried sons alive into adulthood? Also, what if he decided early on to teach Mary how to rule in a way that gave indication to all in England and Europe that she had his support, and would be a valuable player on the world stage as an ally rather than a brood mare. Would we still have gotten a Bloody Mary? Would her reign be the Golden Age that Elizabeth's was? It's so interesting to contemplate the "what ifs"
Sorry if this is a stupid question. I notice in many of your videos you mention "the continent" you don't say he returned to Spain, France, Italy, etc. You say: "he returned to the continent" May I ask why? Is this the wording used in that time? Does it mean the person went somewhere in Europe?
No, not necessarily used at the time but I'll sometimes use it if the person went to various countries or if the place they went maybe had a different name then compared to now, or sometimes just for the sake of varying my vocab, as an alternative to saying the country name(s).
She didn't give him a Son, and she was too strong for him. He went along with the set up to have an excuse to execute her and go on to the next. Henry was a Tyrant and a bully and probably a little crazy. A selfish self centered King, with little regard for life. Life was short and cheap back then. When you think about it, torture was legal and horrific imprisonments. No TV, medical care m phone calls or lawsuits over being ill treated. Times were brutal.
The reasons he had Anne executed were 1) no male heir (not anna's fault) 2) he got involved with Jane Seymour (not her fault either) 3) he's an ******* It's pretty sad in the end ... 😞
Why did the Tudor warrant book found in 2020 show how much Henry was involved in Anne's death? And from when? What was the date when he decided to have her head removed at the hands of an expert Frenchman in lieu of another manner of execution? I think I missed something.... thanks!
He said the marriage to Katherine was invalid so he can marry Anne then saying Anne and Henry's marriage was valid until he wants her gone now that marriage was never valid ..the King just makes up this as he goes
I believe that she was a very sophisticated woman for her century and had met great and independent powerful women while abroad. She believed she was their equal perhaps . She contradicted, cajoled and irritated her King and made demands that the proceding superior Queen had not. I believe that she 1) didn't bear him a male child 2) was 30 and unlikely to do so after 2 miscarriages 3) was what was once called a shrew , was vindictive in her treatment of her "inferiors" Lady Mary , the previous archbishop , and was evil with regards to Catgerine of Aragon. I in no way blame anyone but the Tyrant her husband, and herself , for once she accepted him , she expected to change him.
Karma came knocking on Ann's door. There is no doubt in my mind . Ann was not the presence of a compassionate queen. What Ann asked to be done with the true queen & wife of king Henry. Queen Aragon. Celebrating and mocking her death Despicable.! Ann instructed the household of princess Elizabeth, I believe the head servant. Instructed her to physically abuse princess Mary. Every time princess Mary referred to herself as the true POW. Which she was . Ann also stated to her confessor . That she (ann) had personally watched many men and women executed. Either quartered or decapitated . Ann thought she was untouchable. I do not feel sorry for Ann.... For what is done to others..... Will be done until you
Hello again what I'm going to say is only my own opinion. From all that I've read and also watched a complete series of the Tudor's. In my opìnio Henry did show his real self about himself because of his actions towards Katherine Of Aragon his wife. Also his actions towards and what he did with the Catholic Church in cutting all ties with the Vatican and the Catholic faith. In my opinion he did this because he wanted to do as he pleased when it came to him being able to have the ability to Anull his marriages and also having his wives heads cut off although I must say that his 5th wife the very young Katherine Howard did a very bad thing with the affair she had with Thomas Coldpepper however I do think that when Henry sent the priest to tell Katherine that if she would openly confess what she did her life would be spared. Henry in my opinion was a very cruel and selfish man that always wanted to get his way when it came to his marriages. Anyway as I've said this is only my opinion. With Kind Regards Amanda.
Anne Boleyn to me was innocent and was railroaded with intrigue and lies from especially Eustace Chapuys and Thomas Cromwell. Henry VIII's obsession of a male heir would have made him feel like an ass if he saw somehow in death that his 2nd girl Elizabeth I outlived and outreigned him and his male heir/son Edward VI. The very same daughter Anne Boleyn bore him.
I feel like God was on poor Queen Catherine’s side for this one, punishing the wicked-stepmother-adulteress with only a daughter (albeit a great one) and forcing her to face the same wrath. And the miscarriage on her burial day, talk about karma.
I honestly think all of the tudors were just horrible. I understand this is likely the result of the wars of the roses because they were in the impossible situation of…if I don’t have power someone will probably kill me…but Just a dynasty where every single monarch committed horrible atrocities to keep power
For a great deal of the charges against her, she was not at the places she was said to be at on those days. Additionally, Anne confided to her sister in law Jane that Henry was suffering with some erectile dysfunction. If he couldn’t sleep with her, it would be nonsensical for her to get pregnant by someone else because he’d know she cheated.
Anne should have tread more carefully. She had before her many examples of longtime friends Henry punished and even executed, his treatment of his own sister, and his treatment of his previous beloved wife and daughter. No one could have thought it safe to insult or upset him in any way, even by this time in his reign. He'd even broken with the Pope and Rome to get his own way. He had already openly declared himself the most powerful save God himself. She should have behaved as if constantly handling a cobra. Is it true that she offered to agree to an annulment and asked to be sent to a nunnery, or is that a fabrication?
After spending so much time and energy getting her, why do you think Henry abandoned Anne and had her executed? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
Easy.. maybe it's witchcraft, maybe it's Maybelline. 😬😹
Because she wasn't giving him the son he so wanted. Plus, she didn't agree with how the money stolen from the monasteries was managed by Cromwell on her husband's behalf.
Cause he had a temper tantrum I also think his mind was going, after his injury, he was never the same.
The thrill of the chase had dissipated. After 10 years of pursuing Anne and moving heaven and earth to marry her, Henry's ardour cooled once he captured his prey. Anne's failure to produce a male heir, her less than submissive personality (once so attractive to him) and Henry's wandering eye coalesced in him wanting to move onto a more compliant partner. Given the political cost of the marriage, culminating in Wolsey and More's deaths, Cromwell's influence and the break with Rome, Anne probably was a convenient scapegoat to blame. The fact that he went out hunting on the day Anne was executed and his hasty marriage to Jane Seymour almost immediately afterwards makes it all the more plausible that Henry had been "setting up" Anne to be unjustly accused of treason for a while beforehand. By the way, I've only just stumbled upon your channel as one of your videos popped up in my YT feed. Now I'm hooked and avidly catching up with watching the rest. I love the content as you are very specific and methodical in your use of historical evidence to reconstruct what may have happened yet at the same time debunking unreliable sources. Your narration is expressive and crystal clear (with a bit of a lilt), which easily draws your audience into delving into the past with you. I'm looking forward to watching future content.
@Margaret Muns Margaret, I didn't think about the head trauma affecting Henry's behaviour, that makes total sense. Thanks for sharing your medical perspective and expertise. The other thing I like about this channel is the comment section. The viewers of this channel are clearly passionate about history and have so many intriguing insights regarding the subject matter, like yourself.
I have always felt ver sorry for Anne. Unable to avoid his intentions in the beginning and his victim at the end. Imagine having to die leaving your 3 year old child behind knowing her father was such a monster.
Henry’s problem was himself, masked as boredom and desperation for his own line to live on. I think he projected onto Anne all of his displeasures in life, everything that he felt had let him down, including a subconscious awareness of his failing potency and age. He was too narcissistic to accept HE had failings, it was far easier to blame Anne for everything, as he had a narcissist’s tunnel vision that everything in the world should bend to suit him. He finally got the prize, Anne, but now it wasn’t so bright as it didn’t result in a son. Anne was conquered territory gone sour, and his ego insisted he keep looking for the ideal…something he would never have found, because he didn’t want a real wife, just a willing, obedient womb with no mind attached. If it had been able to deliver him a son, Henry would have been happiest with a mirror, because Henry was Henry’s first and only real love. Every one of his wives deserved FAR better! And Anne had the last laugh with Elizabeth’s magnificent reign.
Totally agree. I have watched a narcissist-smart woman relationship follow the Henry-Anne trajectory in the last couple of years. You describe it perfectly.
The way Henry fervently declares his love to Anne sounds rather like an infatuation, the kind that’s quick to burn and quick to die. That explains why it didn’t last long.
an AFFAIR for sure
@anonymous 112 because she didn’t let him smash for 7+ years! Lol
@anonymous 112 I didn’t say she wasn’t interested!
The pursuit was what he was enchanted by. Once he won her heart the bloom fell off the rose as they say. Their story is very fascinating to me even today.
This made me see Anne in a different light. She was not the seductress people made her out to be and was in many ways a victim of Henry VIII'S machinations, and showed remarkable fortitude like her predecessor in standing up to him.
I'm so glad you see Anne in this way now. All of those malicious rumours were put out by Henry, all false
I recently did a quest in ESO that reminds me of Anne 'playing hard to get' with Henry.
There's a quest giver who's fallen in love with his mother's slave, and they're both in love, but his mother won't sell her to him bc of the scandal. He asks you to help.
Well, after successfully gathering the things the mother wants in exchange to free her, the 'so in love' woman reveals that he's a stalker. But she can't outright reject him bc he's the son of her master.
That's how i view the early relationship of Henry and Anne. He's a king, and he's been shown to be unstable.
Henry stalked her, scared away potential suitors in a time when that was the only way for a woman to advance, and kept writing to her despite her leaving court. That must have been terrifying!!!
Wtf do you do when the highest authority in your country is stalking you?
There are times I find myself wishing Anne had had a boy but then we wouldn’t have had the golden age of Elizabeth I
Yeah, Elizabeth is hard to beat :-)
I honestly wish one of poor Catherine’s boys had survived. She put up with a lot to be so unceremoniously discarded…and really Mary might have been a good queen if she hadn’t been so abused and consequently resentful because of her mother’s treatment.
We also wouldn't have had colonialism to the extent it went either
I think if Anne had her son after Elizabeth, England probable would have still had her as Queen, just much later. Keep in mind, that Anne miscarried a boy when she found out Henry had been injured in his jousting match as a time, and had a concussion where he was unconscious for a full two hours before regaining consciousness. I think that the news should have been told to Anne after having this new child.
It’s ironic that Henry was so obsessed with having a boy but Elizabeth turned out to be his greatest legacy, by far.
My take on Henry VIII was he got easily bored. With women, friends, etc. He liked to be entertained. When he wasn't enjoying himself anymore he wanted to move on regardless of who it hurt.
So glad I found your channel…I love history, especially history around the British Isles and Western Europe. My personal opinion (as someone with a medical background) is that Henry may have been a sociopath/psychopath or at very least had a narcissistic personality disorder. It would not be far fetched as many monarchs who came to rule at a younger age display these characteristics. Brain development shows us that the prefrontal cortex is not finished developing until the mid 20’s generally and therefore someone given such absolute power at a very young age accompanied by all of the flattery etc that goes with it could have helped to develop this. He was very charming, handsome, powerful and appears to be without empathy. That being said I do think it is not correct to use modern day values to judge people living hundreds of years ago in an entirely different cultural context. (For example, it would be inappropriate to label a 35 year old man a pedophile for marrying a 12 or 13 year old girl when in that context…there was very little consideration of childhood as a separate thing than adulthood) I do believe Henry was a spoiled brat who never grew up. Whether it was a mental health condition or simply a product of his environment…he obviously never learned to take “no” for an answer and seemed to have very little concern or awareness that the people around him were actually people in their own right. He seemed to view everyone as a plaything. And even with very spoiled princes of the time, it seemed to be viewed as an oddity by most contemporaries.
You should definitely come back for tomorrow and next week's videos please, as I specifically ask some medical questions tomorrow which I couldn't answer myself and next week's will be to do with Henry's personality, so a lot of what you're saying here would be very pertinent. This is a great comment. Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you're enjoying the channel.
I think the reason Henry had Anne killed was to avoid another “messy divorce”. Katherine had fought him over putting her aside and he never got his annulment. What must have gone through his mind when Katherine died,! ? Suddenly he was truly free, in the eyes of Rome to marry again. Rome had never recognized his marriage to Anne anyway. But there she was. I did read Anne was that she was hoping Henry would allow her to withdraw to a convent, like he had wanted Katherine to do. Rome would have accepted Katherine’s decision to withdraw because she could not give him a a son., but Katherine resisted to the last. I think Henry did not want Anne anymore for all the reasons you listed, but he also did not want another ex-wife around to cause trouble in the future.
I agree actually, that another former wife hanging around wouldn't have been to his liking, even if she wasn't ever married to him in the eyes of Rome, or (after he got his own annulment in England) in his own realm.
She was guilty of adultery in the eyes of her contemporaries
Only later on she was seen as a victim of circumstances
Her own daughter did nothing to give her a better burial or honor her memory
She was atrociously unfair to all by taking advantage of the weakness of a man obsessed with an heir
She paid with her life her arrogance and disrespect of the royalty
Yes, and if he had had to divorce her/annul the marriage it might have further muddied the succession if her successor had a child. With Anne dead, no one could claim that, for example, Edward was illegitimate because his parents weren't legally married.
If Queen Anne had a son, I think her position would of been secured. I think you mentioned all the reasons that culminated to her condemnation. Henry & Anne had a somewhat long relationship; together for a decade.
I think so too. Even if Henry hadn't been in love with her any more, I don't think he would have risked the line of succession by saying that he wasn't legally married to his son's mother. I always find it interesting to hear what other people think of this situation however, as I find different people tend to put emphasis on different factors. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Poor Queen Katherine. If only she had , had a make child - how different history would’ve been.
Here's my theory based on real-life observation: When a narcissist pursues the prize of an intelligent woman, especially an argumentative one, he later tires of her and blames her for his misfortunes. Her intelligence makes her exceptionally attractive, at first, in comparison to more worshipful women, but his narcissism cannot tolerate continued challenges to his belief in his wonderfulness. Oh - I just looked at other comments which basically say the same thing!
if she truly had betrayed him with all those men he would not have sent for a swordsman from France. He had a rare pang of conscience to save her from more horrible death. If he believed her guilty he would have wanted her to suffer
Naaah, he just wanted to look magnanimous
I often wonder if Henry's "mercy" in summoning the French executioner, to kill Anne, was ever a true mercy at all..
I've wondered, if this act of mercy was Henry, actually being spitefully sadistic, and using Anne's "French style" against Her. In the Tudor time period, English people often accused the French ( the French Court, especially) of being "light" and of "loose moral values" (even some sexual acts that were seen as "base" or "vulgar" were referred to being "of the French fashion" or "French persuasion", in Tudor times ). Part of Henry's initial attraction to Anne, was due to Her "being taken as a French Woman born", Her French style of dress, the French customs Anne had picked up, the accent She'd developed etc etc. Was Henry actually trying to destroy, what He perceived to be, Anne's 'sex appeal'? By having Anne killed in the French manner, She thought so highly of?? Was He also sending a message, of sorts, to the English people, perhaps the French too, in a way? By implying that no Man, even a King, could "control" His Wife's wanton unnatural, sexual appetites if She was too "French"? Henry also knew of Anne's love of France..His enemy. I often wonder if He was mocking Anne, even though He had already stripped Her of all dignity (in His eye's, at least). Was the French Executioner, the final twist of Henry's knife into Anne's psyche??
Jane Seymour happened to ban French dresses for Her ladies, at court too. I wonder if Henry told Jane, that French style was "immoral" or some such, as it reminded Him of Anne? Just my thoughts. Great video as always!
You make an interesting point. Whether he meant it as a mercy or not though, I still think it was a better way to go than with the axe, as the latter could be so easily botched (and was in many instances, such as the countess of Salisbury and Mary, Queen of Scots, to name but a couple). He did spare her from burning, so there was some element of mercy. It's interesting that Catherine Howard didn't get a sword, but then there was better evidence of her guilt, so perhaps Henry wanted her to suffer more.
I’ll take the expert French swordsman over the English axe any day.
@@HistoryCalling Very true, I agree that murder by axe was barbaric. However, if someone died by axe they could faint, or even be dragged to the block and still be killed. Anne had to stay on Her knees, without moving for the swordsman's swipe to be effective. Anne showed incredible bravery during her execution. Her killing could of just as easily been botched if She moved in any way. A terrible death...
agree!!!!
Anne still has the last laugh all the other children died and Anne's daughter, she lived a long life and Anne Boleyn is more popular today hundreds of years later then her enemies were when they were alive!
I’m not sure I’d want to go down in history as a side piece who got murdered, but that’s me
King Henry was intimidated by warrior Queen Katherine and her powerful Spanish family also in line with Catholics and Rome. He struggled for his own authority and religion and used the love of Queen Anne as an escape from its control over him. When Anne got everything she wanted and couldn't produce a live male heir, she came at to high of a cost and he was losing public respect. Trumped up charges to be rid of it all.
Yes, I think her lack of a son was the clincher as well. If she'd had her boy in 1536, I think Jane Seymour would probably be a footnote in history, at best.
@@HistoryCalling There's a trio of historical fiction books by Laura Anderson that play on the supposition of what if Anne's boy had been born. It was a quick and great read
@@HistoryCalling if Catherine's son survived.. Henry the ninth?
Henry was a narcissist. His disposal of his faithful queen, his pursuit of someone who obviously didn’t want him and discarding he just as easily…Henry seemed to see people only in the light of himself and not as actual other people to himself
Papal authority had been contested several times in the past most notably by Henry II. But this time, with the nascent reformation movement, alternatives, including a complete split from Rome, were seriously contemplated for the first time. Henry's need for income, provided a strong incentive, as he acquired the wealth of the monasteries both for his own uses and to create a new class of wealthy landowners beholden to him. He also needed substantial wealth if he wanted to compete with Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and King Francis, the big players on the Continent. Obviously, his monomania about a male heir played a central role, but it was not the only factor. Finally, Anne played a dangerous game. She was not well liked, many considered her a w---e for marrying Henry when he had a living spouse, and at the time there was no substantive support in the country for a complete break with Rome. Eventually, in the King's eyes, she may have damaged goods and ill omened, and God's judgement on the marriage was her inability to bring a male heir to full term. With Queen Katherine dead, removing Anne would bring the whole episode to an end. We can't forget that Henry's theology remained essentially Catholic until his death, just shorn of the pope, mettling clerics, and monasteries.
I believe Henry had Anne executed for a number of reasons. First, her strong personality. Then she miscarried a son. I think Henry thought history was repeating itself. Then he fell for Jayne. Jayne’s personality seemed to be the opposite of Anne’s. Thank you for the great video. I love history. New subscriber!
Hi Elaine, welcome to the channel and thank you so much for watching, commenting and subscribing. I think that's a great, succinct little summary of the reasons the Boleyn marriage fell apart :-)
Henry was tired of a superficial tyrant
Jane was serious and stern ( just look at her picture ), closer to his first wife in feminine conduct
Besides Jane had been loyal to Catherine of Aragon and became close to Mary facilitating a family reunion while at the same time indirectly provoking the fall of Boleyn whom Jane must have despised for her betrayal of the queen
I think Anne brought with her from the French court a certain playful flirtatiousness to the English Court, where it was widely misinterpreted to her peril.
There’s no way Henry believed the charges against Anne. He was not the kind of personality that would act so calmly if he truly thought he’d been cheated on. She had become an inconvenience: she hadn’t given him a son, she didn’t blindly accept his faults, and she was causing trouble for him politically, with the Emperor l
I’ve often wondered why the later Queens would even go near the homicidal maniac of a King; but then I think of all of the narcissists that I’ve known and the power they could wield over more empathic hearts, and it makes better sense.
He was the King of England, you couldnt just refuse him unless you were part of some major royal family who valued your life a little. Anne of Cleves was a diplomatic bride and her family was probably just too eager to turn down the chance to have a Queen in the family. As for the others they were just English noblewomen (and Katherine Howard was a girl at that) so would have trouble refusing him
How is this a love story? He had her decapitated without a thought. He was a sociopath.
a pretty much toxic relationship, the mistress turning wife, turning a dead body.
Just curious, without a thought?
i would say psychopath
This is such great content and I also love the accent, Murr for More, purr for poor, wonderful :)))
Haha, thank you. On accents, one of my friends is English (London accent) and his wife teases him about that fact that he says poor/paw/pour the same way.
@@HistoryCalling I‘d never (consciously) hear anyone speak with a Northern Irish accent before, just love it :)
Thanks again for your videos, I really appreciated your objective review of the new documentary on the princes in the Tower, as well.
You have a huge knack for telling a great story. I have no doubt you'll be a great reader to your kids.
He was an A-1 NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDERED WEAK -MINDED King ...almost a great deal of men are. I've Always admired both Catherine and Ann, BOTH were TOO GOOD for him!!!
I don't know much about narcissistic personality disorder I'm afraid, but yes, I think they were too good for him.
Too good for him - ha! The King of England and one of the most eligible men in the western world?
Exactly! NPD
@@GradKat Also, the wife murdering psycho, what a catch! I'd argue that all of the poor women who he had any contact with were too good for him, but yeah I feel for Catherine and Ann the most, and although I know Ann was no saint, but she had the potential to be a great queen (Elizabeth in my eyes is very much her mother's daughter) if only sick and twisted bastard didn't murder her with cold blood.
@@HistoryCalling - I have studied this personality disorder for 2 years.
He absolutely, no doubt in my mind suffered from NPD. Of course, we can’t diagnose him for the obvious reasons. Most narcissists are unaware.
The victims of the narcissist are the one closest to them. They suffer.
This is actually part of the reason I’m visiting this channel.
Thank you for your work.
I really look forward to watching these videos history has always been a passion of mine. I love how the videos are so well put together and rely the facts well clear and concise . Am loving these Tudor episodes especially as I studied Russian history from Catherine the Great through to the Cold War and the whole of German history from WW1 through to WW2 and the Cold War . So re-learning English history is fabulous. Thank you so much for all the effort and time you’ve spent researching and editing to make these videos for us all to learn and enjoy ☺️ 💕☺️🥰❤️🥰
Fascinating and very well narrated. I believe Henry just wanted to go on to another wife to try for a male child and Anne was in the way , just as Katherine of Aragon was. Therefore, anything that was said or reported back to him, that didn’t look good for Anne, he jumped on it and used it against her to get his way. Very selfish man indeed!!
Thank you. Yes, I think he was after a son as well. Had Anne not miscarried their boy in January 1536, I think history would be very different.
@@HistoryCalling Yes and even more so if Katherine of Aragon would have had a son.
So freaking despicable yet fascinating
Love your Tudor Videos👑They are captivating and interesting. Thank you for your effort in bringing us closer to English history in such an exciting way
Anne was educated in her formative years in France where reformed doctrine was abroad. I understand she brought these ideas to the English court. However, I wonder if modern screenwriters would properly understand the spiritual dimension of Anne’s influence.
She was indeed educated abroad, however she was mainly in the very Catholic France, so I think she picked up her reforming ideas once she was back in England. As for how modern screenwriters interpret her, I feel sorry for them sometimes, as I think it can be difficult to get a real grasp on Anne and exactly what her beliefs and influence were. So much of what we know about her comes from the comments of other (often hostile) people, like the Imperial ambassador, Eustace Chapuys. We don't have that much that comes directly from the woman herself, so she's a bit of an enigma. It's probably why screen interpretations of her are so wildly different.
@@HistoryCalling thanks for an informative and considered response to my comment. Nevertheless, was it not the case that at the time Anne was living in the continent, not just France,, she was instructed in the new reformed ideas?. (I’m no historian, if I was a screenwriter I would probably have Anne almost singlehandedly bringing the reformation to England! ) . Many thanks.
@@davidrichard2761 You know, I must confess that I don't know exactly what instruction she received in France and at Margaret of Austria's court. That portion of her life is quite hazy unfortunately. I would say that Martin Luther's 95 theses, which really kickstarted the Reformation, only came out in 1517, about 4 years before Anne went back to England, so she may well have heard of them, but it's hard to know how much of an impact they would have made on her at that point in her life. Whilst in France she could well have been influenced by the (at the time) quite radical thinking of Marguerite de Navarre, who was the French King's sister, but this is conjecture. It's interesting conjecture though and always fun to debate Anne's life, especially the continental years as they often don't get much attention when you see screen portrayals of her, yet they took up quite a large portion of her short life. I hope that helps. I know it was a bit short on solid conclusions, but as I said, it's just so hard to pin down exactly what she was up to at that point in time.
The spiritual dimention of Boleyn was that she learned how to have fun at court and how to play her cards to crush others in the pursuit of absolute power
I would not be surprised if she had survived that she would have undermined Henry when he was becoming weaker and sicker
@@angelabender8132 interesting, but however ruthless people are and however much we might despise other’s personalities, surely introducing reformed material in itself seeded independent thinking given that Romanised religion was imposed on society in those days. Did she not have a part in this?
Thank you for all your hard work!! I really enjoy history calling.
What a great video! I've read all of Henry's letters, what a romantic! He even offered her the chance to report her feelings to him by word, and not in writing. Very few things "undo" that level of affection for another.
I believe Henry was bamboozled by his people concerning Anne's fabricated crimes. So I do have a feeling that Cromwell is somewhat responsible.
I also feel there's a possible parallel in the big picture. I've read that despite Henry's turn on Rome, and his taking over the Church of England, that long term, to his deathbed, and very deep down inside, privately, he was still a true Catholic.
The parallel may be, that despite all that happened with Anne, the politics and drama between her and Henry in Court, and her ultimate execution, that deep down inside, privately, he still loved her. He let his obsession for a male heir, ego, and reputation govern the forging of his actions to be compliant with all the fake advice from advisors, leading to Anne's execution
Thinking of it from his point of view, the guilt he may have felt from knowingly breaking Anne's heart, and Katherine's heart, stayed with, and haunted him. And even greater than that, I think he felt overall that God was punishing him long term in many respects, and he was motivated to constantly move forward, with blinders on, attempting to rectify any shortcomings with his creator. But he sadly was perhaps mistaking love for power and duty.
I think there are a couple of things. Anne in some ways out shone Henry, kinda like Princess Di did with Charles. She brought religious texts from France which solidified Henry's thinking into removing the shackles of Rome, but would allow him to marry Anne. As far as NPD, any ruler at this time would have this type of personality, as they were brought up to be so, and women at that time were there for breeding with little say. Anne lifted herself up too high in the way she berated Henry, and the way that she spoke out in public. She tried for equal footing after being crowned instead of one step behind. Henry gave her too much reign and then allowed it to hang her. Also now that he was unfettered of the church and was the head of religion in England, there were no checks and balances, he could do whatever he wanted. Anne was unpopular, it didn't take much to get rid of her. Henry also had the accident and head injury which possibly brought a personality change, but would have also made him feel vulnerable, he had to acknowledge his youth and athleticism were gone and his own mortality. Possible virility in question as well. Therefore, if Anne was not producing he couldn't waste time and needed to find another candidate and was not going to allow a former wife/queen stay around to muck it up, like Catherine. So off with her head!
Another great video. I'll be watching Prince Philip's funeral tomorrow. Will you? Alison
Thank you. I will indeed.
I truly believe the whole Tudor line was cursed! It would explain why he wasn't able to have healthy sons with healthy women, or if their blood types weren't compatible with each other too. That usually causes miscarriages too from what I read. 🤔🤔 Its fascinating but tragic. 👀🤦🏽♀️ I think Anne was the only wife who stood up to him and proved she wasn't going to let everything go and be bullied. Strong, formidable, but yes, Karma wasn't kind to her was it? 🥺🥺
I wonder if Anne ever thought of taking Elizabeth and escaping to France, raising her on her own, and hiding there for years until hearing Edward and Mary 1st died, and then going back to England for Elizabeth to take her rightful place as the heir to the throne. That would've been the most badass thing ever in history!! 👑👑❤️🔥❤️🔥 Just Subscribed too! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
Anne was not the only wife who stood up to him. Catherine of Aragon had been equally forthright with Henry.
I have a question: what, in your opinion, had George Boleyn, William Brereton and Sir Francis Weston done to annoy either Cromwell or the King? I understand why Mark Smeaton and Henry Norris were convicted (Mark confessed - possibly/likely under torture. Can't say I blame him, I'd have probably said whatever I had to say to stop being tortured - to sleeping with Anne, even though I don't believe that he ever did. Anne said to Henry Norris that "if aught came to the King but good, you'd look to have me"), but not the others. I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
To be clear, I don't think Anne ever cheated on Henry VIII.
I am enjoying your series on Henry VIII wives, especially Anne. I am Canadian but visited London and of course historic sites. While at the Tower of London I was quite taken up with "Traitors Gate" and the well-worn steps leading up to the courtyard. However, there seems to be some confusion if Anne entered through Traitors Gate or the Court Gate. Do you have any thoughts on this?.
The chronicler Charles Wriothesley specifically says it was the court gate, so I would lean towards that myself. She hadn't been found guilty of anything yet, so Traitors' Gate would be a bit premature. Not impossible though.
Yes, i agree with a commenter here that i also wish that Anne Boleyn had given Henry a living son.
I think once she had done that her future would have been cemented.
Together with Henry & her scintillating intellect they could have been a phenomenal success & been indeed the golden couple
She was certainly capable of charming the birds from the trees & would have helped Henry secure great benefits for England.
I know Elizabeth 1 was, in my opinion the greatest Queen & Monarch who ever lived, ever!
However, how much happier might she have been to have had a happy reigning father & mother in a successful & rich England
Never having to fear for her life or betrayals, & surviving against tremendous odds.
Elizabeth 1 could have had a carefree life, married & had children, been loved, still a very charismatic woman she would have been a favourite princess &
Whomever she married would have gained an incredible woman
Its sad to think of what could have been, for Elizabeth but, we cant change history at least not in this dimention! Haha
Apart from the greatness of Elizabeth, her mother, Anne Boleyn was another woman who was extraordinary, she had the sharpest intellect & could debate anyone into the mud.
Even her enemy Thomas Cromwell had to praise her & admired her cleverness & planning despite himself.
Im pleased Anne didnt marry into the Percy family, she would have been wasted, bored rigid & her worth nullified.
If only she could have planned a little better, held her tongue around Henry & placated him instead of causing him turmoil
( As was seen in Robert Deverauxs flippancy with Elizabeth 1, thinking he could get away with huge liberties because he knew she had a weak spot for him & he exploited it & caused his demise
Theres only so much a monarch can take ! Like father like daughter)
Im sure Henry really was besotted with Anne, it just prooves it because even after 500 yrs, we today are besotted with Anne & everything about her, 500 yrs of us mere mortals still being enthralled by this amazing woman, tells us that Henry had never met anyone like her, i never would.
I also think it was when Anne lost her " mojo" & became needy to Henry, wheedling for a second chance to give him a son, that was when the cloth dropped from Henrys eyes, she became ordinary, sniveling & i suppose pathetic
If only she had played it cool, there were ways she could have secured her future & given Henry A SON, she was clever enough to pull off anything.
I dont know why she lost Henrys interest, it wasnt just because she didnt give him a son, she became weak didnt keep his interest & devotion.
Maybe becoming a mother to Elizabeth made her fearful because of the love she felt for her child??
PS could you do a video on the maternal family of Elizabeth Woodville & her mother Jaquetta
Rivers & their supposed link to the water spirits & the demon river queen of legend.
There isnt the coverage of this historical woman that there should be.
Ive read all i can about the supposed witchcraft practised by Jaquetta, her noble background,
Her spellcasting to lure King Edward 4 to marry her daughter & the supposed curse on the Tudor line & how it would never last & die out.
Info is still sketchy on Elizabeth Woodvilles family & its intrigued me for years.
Thank you 👧
Your channel is so great, you ask the most interesting questions on these periods of history. Other channels are far too generic and so if you've seen one you've seen them all! I love the level of detail you investigate!
George, BSc with Honours in Quantum physics.
Thank you so much :-) As a scientist I expect you can appreciate the need to ask questions and sift through the evidence which is something I think we have in common, despite being from such different fields.
@@HistoryCalling History and Physics are both much about investigating and carefully analyzing then understanding the hidden truths and empowering details of the forces that shape our world to be as it is, so not as different in this way as you might imagine 🙂. I have always loved both, and my favorite period to learn about is medieval England, my ancestors came from there but I am in New Zealand! I so loved your conclusion btw that Richard III should have blamed Buckingham for the murders of the Princes, that he didn't is almost a smoking gun of his guilt!
Henry was never satisfied. Henry was only for Henry. I feel sorry for all his queens but most especially Anne Boleyn who was innocent 😇 of all charges, had no one to stand up for her, including her father, and was cruelly executed.
Six wives clearly the man didn’t know what love really was
I would guess that when Henry had the jousting accident, his advisors pressured him about not yet having a son. It is said Henry's father restricted his son's athletic desires because of danger. Once Henry VIII was king, he took up jousting and other dangerous pursuits. I could imagine old emotional hurts rising in Henry if he was pressured in middle age to curtail sports he loved and to protect himself because he did not yet have a son. Then to enforce the marriage, Anne miscarried a son soon after. Add in a few touches of religious beliefs, astrology and other ideas from the age, and Henry may well have felt cursed with his second marriage.
There had been years and years of trying to beget a son, the tearing apart the realm to obtain Anne, then only a daughter and the January 1536 miscarriage of a son. I would guess there would have been a lot of frustration, fear and anger and that Henry may have felt threatened in that he could die and leave the kingdom in chaos for lack of a son. (Which is amazing to me since Henry's mother, Elizabeth of York, strengthened Henry Tudor's claim to the throne. And subsequently Henry's [bastardized] daughters would become queens without disaster befalling the country.) What might the outcome have been if Henry would have put all efforts into recognizing and training a daughter as queen?
But they were educated and expected to rule sooner or later which they did otherwise he would not even have considered them in the succession
The paradox must have been when he realized that those 2 females were actually superior in character and intelligence to his male heir who was stupid enough to designate an adolescent cousin to the throne thus causing her death and the death of others who supported her
He should have known the power that Mary and Elizabeth already had in the hearts of the English people
Going through family arguments that are very heated, myself, it is odd how just one more is the final straw. For me, I am no longer speaking to that family member. For a King (like King Henry), it is very threatening. Add in Cromwell's dislike (probably hatred) of her, and there is a perfect recipe what happened.
Thanks for all the resources!
You're welcome :-)
Can I ask why the Vatican has Henry's love letters?
The Pope needed to grant an annulment to Henry and Catherine’s marriage. Henry said it was because of his “troubled conscience” at having married his brother’s widow. However, it was clear that this was not the reason. These letters prove that he wanted to end it to marry Anne. Henry had an affair with Anne’s sister Mary, so technically, this marriage would be invalid for the reason he was requesting the annulment. My guess would be that they were sent there by friends of Catherine or her nephew the Emperor in an attempt to stop any chance of an annulment. They could easily have been stolen by a bribed servant or messenger.
I was about to respond and then saw what a fantastic response Carina has already given. I agree with everything she said. I think they were stolen from Anne to prove the real reason Henry was asking for an annulment. I've always thought it would be amazing to have Anne's side of the correspondence, but I'll bet Henry burnt those letters :-(
@@HistoryCalling Brilliant! But crosses out Henry's name and scribbles in Cromwell's (at the fireplace).
Hello again I would like to ask you from where did you get the information for Anne's words to Henry about how she waited for so long to marry Henry. The reason why I'm asking you is because those were the exact same words that Anne said to Henry in the mini series of the Tudor's starring Natalie Dormer who played Anne Boleyn?
I found out I’m descended from Henry Norris. I didn’t know much about him until this video, and wow. It’s wild hearing one of my great-grandfathers was tortured and executed
I think Henry the VIII had NPD. All he cared about was his image as the King. He doesn’t seem to have valued nor have treated any of his wives as nothing but one among his subjects who he was only doing a favour by offering a marriage and the privileges that comes with being a royal consort. Anne’s inability to provide the king with a son, a legitimate heir, was taken as a personal insult by Henry. He was so convinced in his own cooked up charges that he had successfully convinced himself to believe his own lies. On some levels he was a victim of his own complicated mind. That jousting accident must have really messed up his thinking. That’s where my sympathies end for him though. Anne if given a few years may have produced him a son but Henry was so desperate and impatient dreading the long and lengthy divorce process like the one that happened for him with Catherine of Aragon.
Hi Brinda, I'm not a medical doctor, so I don't know about the narcissistic personality disorder, but it wouldn't surprise me. Certainly I think that having everyone do what you say from the age of 17 onwards isn't good for a person and leads to bad (in this case VERY bad) behaviour. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Actually Henry foresaw the changing times and despite his obsession with having male heir and queens ( he wanted to be loved and cared for by a mother figure) he took the sides of the enemies of Rome which was becoming a known immoral guide to the pious Catholics
Also the elimination of the convents just followed the end of monacheism in all Europe; he took their treasures but that system was doomed already
Outstanding ... greatly enjoyed and appreciated.
Thank you so much :-)
Historian Joanne Paul said in a video that there is actually no contemporary evidence that suggest Henry and Anne waited until they were away in Calais in 1532 to smoosh. Is that true?
It was purely because of his lack of a male heir! In those days an heir was EVERYTHING! And as a king it was the one thing he didn’t have!
Yes, I think that was what sealed Anne's fate too, poor thing.
Henry VIII could turn on people in an instant. Right from the beginning, he had Edmund Dudley and Sir Richard Empson executed to demonstrate the difference between his father's regime and his new reign. He must have know both men for years. Sir Richard was knighted when Henry was created Prince of Wales. He had his own cousin, Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham, executed in 1521 and wiped out many of those with Plantagenet blood. Thomas Moor, Bishop Fisher, The Observant Friars -- all were friends who died at Henry's command.
Sorry to disappoint you but in the courts of the time, anybody could potentially be an enemy
Henry Stafford planned to usurp the throne from the King. Bishop Fisher refused to swear to the oath that Anne was Queen of England. The other courtiers were corrupt. So, there were reasons for being executed. More was executed for the same reason as Bishop Fisher.
My view is that perhaps Anne wasn't a "femme fatale", (and we know to be Henry's wife wasn't necessarily under each woman's complete control), but given her father's ambitions and her behavior before and after their marriage, I think she definitely manipulated Henry for her own ambitions (no tears for him though). She also clearly had long term determination to see her goals through.
Anne played with Henry's emotions (if he had any) to provoke him to divorce Catherine instead of keeping her as a mistress and she challenged his ego when telling him she might find someone else while he dragged his feet.
It seems from Henry's letters to Anne while courting her, she had provided some encouragement, along with pushing him away. She was staying out of his sight, making herself more attractive to a man who loved the chase, yet was doing a push-pull in their communications.
It's the classic trope of a woman withholding and running away (but giving him a tiny bit of positive encouragement and a challenge) so that the man chases her. But Anne's mistake was in believing that Henry would still want her after he caught her. When his lust was quelled, he got bored and his attention moved to other women-as per his usual m.o.
I think Anne saw Henry's weaknessnesses and played on them. If she had given him a son, she might’ve lived, although I highly doubt Henry would've given her his loyalty for the rest of his life.
Great video.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it :-)
Thank you.
I don't blame Anne for wanting to be a wife rather than a mistress, but the way Katherine was just discard, it was cruel. That cruelness should have been a massive red flag for Anne. She should have run away.
Thank you so much for the video. My family tree goes back to Ann. Loved to learn so much about her. I was very impressed.
My pleasure :-)
Awesome
My family tree goes back to Henry via the Stuarts, Drummonds, etc. (ducks lol) but two marriages make him not a blood relation. I think History Calling may find quite a few descendants and branches replying to these videos!!
My tree is through the Bowland. My mother’s side. It’s funny how the spelling changes over time.
Henry was all about believing what was convenience for him. He would NEVER break with Rome, if Catherine had a boy. He was mad because he found out his reformist beliefs had him marry Anne of Cleeves, and he had gone down in influence.
Its seems strange to me that Henry abandoned Anne, it must have been so humiliating for him personally after everything they had been through, i try to imagine what motivated this, but I can't.
Henry VIII was a complete and total scam bag. His treatment of people that "failed" him was horrendous, regardless of their years of friendship and service to him. Cardinal Woolsey and Thomas More especially come to mind, not to mention Queen Catherine and both his daughters. He obviously didn't love anyone but himself!
It was no "love story". Henry was a spoiled brat.
Well if Anne was willing to steal Henry from his wife Katherine, Anne should not have been surprised that as his wife another woman could steal him from her.
Yep. And she was pretty brutal to Catherine and Mary. I wonder what her thoughts were while she was in the tower.
Anne didn’t ‘steal’ Henry. He wasn’t a lamp or a necklace. Henry willingly cheated on Anne and if it wasn’t Anne it would have been another woman. You can’t steal a human being. They make their own choices
In one of your videos about digging up Anne's body, it was noted that she had been missing some teeth. Maybe some of her teeth had rotted out and this had been a final straw for the king, as he absolutely had no longer been attracted to her?
There is a thin line between love and hate and it seems to have been exacerbated by his injuries. They say that after a traumatic head injury a person can change drastically. I believe Henry was not capable of doing this had he never suffered that head injury. I believe the injury made him the ruthless monster and wife killer he became.
If she had managed to provide the much wanted son this would have saved her. Such an irony although the reason for his obsession to have a son is,understandable given the problems with Matilda. The fall from his house in 1536 is also cited as a reason for his change of personality as he suffered a significant concussion. Of course he may just have been a capricious and violent tyrant. He certainly put many people to death. A really good podcast.
I think Anne was innocent. If she was cheating she wouldn't care about what Henrry was doing. I think any excuse to get rid of her would do. He's clearly a narcissist he blows hot and cold. He even threatened Jane. It was about what he wanted, a son. So he could look perfect to his subjects.
Why?
Often the cheating ones are the most jealous if their power is in danger of ending
She knew of Jane Seymour and she feared her after what she had done to her queen Catherine
I wish that Queen Ann had been able to see that he was truly done with her and had asked him to let her into a nunnery or divorce like he did with Ann of Cleves! She never saw it coming that he would kill her in order to get rid of her😔
So Anne didn't wear yellow. Only Henry. At least according to most contemporary accounts. Anne was intelligent enough to see that it wouldn't be an advantage to behave that way.
Hi Audrianna, thanks for watching and commenting. There are different reports on that. Chapuys said that Henry was dressed all in yellow (I don't believe he commented on what Anne wore at all), while Hall's Chronicle specifically said that 'Quene Anne ware yelowe for the mournyng'. Eric Ives and G.W. Bernard both agree that Anne was in yellow. David Starkey says that Henry was and says that 'recusant tradition' (meaning Nicholas Sander's Anglican Schism, which was drawing its information from Hall) states that Anne was too.
@@HistoryCalling ok. I knew that but between Wriothsley and Chapys not commenting when it would have been to both of their benefit says a lot for the validity of the statements its not like these men were shouches and they would be more likely to be present than Hall. As well as human. Chapuys was human and loved The Queen, so when she died he'd be outraged at the audacity. It would at least be mentioned. There's not even much evidence that yellow was even the mourning colour of Spain. Just my logical inference. I imagine it would act as a rallying cry and neither party wanted another Cousins War.
@@a.munroe Let's agree to disagree :-) I find Hall's comment and the idea that Anne would dress to match Henry compelling enough, but I respect your right to a different opinion and appreciate you taking the time to watch and engage with the video, as getting to chat with people about their different takes on history is (I think) one of the nice things about TH-cam.
@@HistoryCalling I enjoy that I don't have to explain my references. It's never like that in real life 😊
Not all the princess's of Europe were fooled by the position to be his next queen luckily(I pretty sure it was after Anne). He 'proposed' to 2 royal women of Europe. To one he supposedly wrote he needed a full figured woman as wife. She said, to paraphrase, her body may body may be big but she had a very short neck. From another he proposed to wrote,to paraphrase, she'd marry him if she had 2 necks, one for herself, the other to be chopped off 😆😆😆! He was definitely determined to have a son and he got rid of one Queen via divorce. He needed a darn good excuse to get rid of Anne, so he made up trumped up charges of adultery.
Enjoy your video on Anne Boleyn
Thanks Bea. It's one of my less watched ones on Anne. I think a lot of people don't realise it's there as it's part of a three part series on Henry.
Mark Smeaton was the only one to confess. He was the only one tortured.
I've read some intriguing and thought provoking medical articles that suggest HVIII had a disorder that caused all the fertility issues he had (given that he only ever had 1 child with each woman that managed to live more than 60 days). I've also read medical articles that indicate historical descriptions of his behavior over time, and how it takes such a dramatic 180 in middle age, point to a mental disorder. It would be interesting to see how this entire story could be different if medical knowledge were then what it is today. Could Henry and Catherine have had help to keep one of those miscarried sons alive into adulthood?
Also, what if he decided early on to teach Mary how to rule in a way that gave indication to all in England and Europe that she had his support, and would be a valuable player on the world stage as an ally rather than a brood mare. Would we still have gotten a Bloody Mary? Would her reign be the Golden Age that Elizabeth's was? It's so interesting to contemplate the "what ifs"
OMG I can't pls do queen Elizabeth ❤
Sorry if this is a stupid question. I notice in many of your videos you mention "the continent" you don't say he returned to Spain, France, Italy, etc. You say: "he returned to the continent"
May I ask why? Is this the wording used in that time? Does it mean the person went somewhere in Europe?
No, not necessarily used at the time but I'll sometimes use it if the person went to various countries or if the place they went maybe had a different name then compared to now, or sometimes just for the sake of varying my vocab, as an alternative to saying the country name(s).
She didn't give him a Son, and she was too strong for him. He went along with the set up to have an excuse to execute her and go on to the next. Henry was a Tyrant and a bully and probably a little crazy. A selfish self centered King, with little regard for life. Life was short and cheap back then. When you think about it, torture was legal and horrific imprisonments. No TV, medical care m phone calls or lawsuits over being ill treated. Times were brutal.
The reasons he had Anne executed were 1) no male heir (not anna's fault) 2) he got involved with Jane Seymour (not her fault either) 3) he's an *******
It's pretty sad in the end ... 😞
Very sad indeed. Not how you want your epic love story to end for sure.
If Catherine had bore Henry a son then Anne would have married a man she loved. But then we wouldn’t have Elizabeth I 🤫
now a days we import louis vuitton, henry was importing death all the way from France. this guy man
Have you watch the series, the tudors
I have. It's definitely my guilty pleasure as far as historical(ish) TV goes.
I have the set!
Why did the Tudor warrant book found in 2020 show how much Henry was involved in Anne's death? And from when? What was the date when he decided to have her head removed at the hands of an expert Frenchman in lieu of another manner of execution? I think I missed something.... thanks!
Henry never loved anne. He was just too infatuated by her "playing hard to get". Anne is playing a dangerous game with a dangerous man.
He said the marriage to Katherine was invalid so he can marry Anne then saying Anne and Henry's marriage was valid until he wants her gone now that marriage was never valid ..the King just makes up this as he goes
I believe that she was a very sophisticated woman for her century and had met great and independent powerful women while abroad. She believed she was their equal perhaps . She contradicted, cajoled and irritated her King and made demands that the proceding superior Queen had not. I believe that she 1) didn't bear him a male child 2) was 30 and unlikely to do so after 2 miscarriages 3) was what was once called a shrew , was vindictive in her treatment of her "inferiors" Lady Mary , the previous archbishop , and was evil with regards to Catgerine of Aragon. I in no way blame anyone but the Tyrant her husband, and herself , for once she accepted him , she expected to change him.
Karma came knocking on Ann's door.
There is no doubt in my mind . Ann was not the presence of a compassionate queen. What Ann asked to be done with the true queen & wife of king Henry. Queen Aragon. Celebrating and mocking her death Despicable.!
Ann instructed the household of princess Elizabeth, I believe the head servant. Instructed her to physically abuse princess Mary. Every time princess Mary referred to herself as the true POW. Which she was .
Ann also stated to her confessor . That she (ann) had personally watched many men and women executed. Either quartered or decapitated .
Ann thought she was untouchable. I do not feel sorry for Ann.... For what is done to others..... Will be done until you
Hello again what I'm going to say is only my own opinion. From all that I've read and also watched a complete series of the Tudor's. In my opìnio Henry did show his real self about himself because of his actions towards Katherine Of Aragon his wife. Also his actions towards and what he did with the Catholic Church in cutting all ties with the Vatican and the Catholic faith. In my opinion he did this because he wanted to do as he pleased when it came to him being able to have the ability to Anull his marriages and also having his wives heads cut off although I must say that his 5th wife the very young Katherine Howard did a very bad thing with the affair she had with Thomas Coldpepper however I do think that when Henry sent the priest to tell Katherine that if she would openly confess what she did her life would be spared. Henry in my opinion was a very cruel and selfish man that always wanted to get his way when it came to his marriages. Anyway as I've said this is only my opinion. With Kind Regards Amanda.
Is there a part one?
She should have ignored his letters.
Try that with a Tudor monarch.
I think it fair to say that Henry was seriously deranged. ...very much like Hitler or Himler.
And this is how the monarchy behaves.
I wish the Vatican would let us see all the documents they possess. Why should they be private?
Anne Boleyn to me was innocent and was railroaded with intrigue and lies from especially Eustace Chapuys and Thomas Cromwell. Henry VIII's obsession of a male heir would have made him feel like an ass if he saw somehow in death that his 2nd girl Elizabeth I outlived and outreigned him and his male heir/son Edward VI. The very same daughter Anne Boleyn bore him.
I feel like God was on poor Queen Catherine’s side for this one, punishing the wicked-stepmother-adulteress with only a daughter (albeit a great one) and forcing her to face the same wrath. And the miscarriage on her burial day, talk about karma.
I honestly think all of the tudors were just horrible. I understand this is likely the result of the wars of the roses because they were in the impossible situation of…if I don’t have power someone will probably kill me…but Just a dynasty where every single monarch committed horrible atrocities to keep power
Were the medals and such supposed to be accurate, or was that considered good looking at that time?
👏👏👏
Anne not perfect but I don’t think she did the incest thing.
Oh no, I don't think so either.
I believe she was innocent of all charges!
For a great deal of the charges against her, she was not at the places she was said to be at on those days. Additionally, Anne confided to her sister in law Jane that Henry was suffering with some erectile dysfunction. If he couldn’t sleep with her, it would be nonsensical for her to get pregnant by someone else because he’d know she cheated.
Pretty much no one, not even Henry or the people at the time, believed the incest charges
From good prince to Romeo to OFF WITH HER BLASTED HEAD! = a person of multiple personalities.....or too many hormones. lol
Anne should have tread more carefully. She had before her many examples of longtime friends Henry punished and even executed, his treatment of his own sister, and his treatment of his previous beloved wife and daughter. No one could have thought it safe to insult or upset him in any way, even by this time in his reign. He'd even broken with the Pope and Rome to get his own way. He had already openly declared himself the most powerful save God himself. She should have behaved as if constantly handling a cobra. Is it true that she offered to agree to an annulment and asked to be sent to a nunnery, or is that a fabrication?
What if Henry had died after his accident?
English history would be very different :-)
@@HistoryCalling Queen Mary. Or King Henry Fitzroy? Or civil war?