Narcissists parents don’t want them to be happy. They want them to be miserable just like they are. It’s like a bucket of crabs. If one crab tries to climb out another crab will reach up and pull it down.
Yes. And that is very unfortunate, which is why other family members/siblings act the way that they do. They hate for you to break away, be your own self, think for yourself, and experience joy.
This may seem small but one thing that triggers me the most is my nm demanding I do something rather than ask…like “go get my purse from upstairs”. She truly thinks her kids are her servants.
My "opinions" are praised as long as they agree w others. After 30 years of therapy, I am trying to find and voice my own. My mother keeps asking 'Why are things different? What changed?' I tried gray rocking for over a year and then finally told her that "I started voicing my opinion, and when I do, I am told that I have broken a boundary (of hers)." She didn't like that and hasn't talked to me since. She proved my point. 😮
I experienced a lot of emotional invalidation. If I told my NM she hurt my feelings, she would say no I didn’t. You have no right to feel that way. Even as an adult, this was very confusing. It causes cognitive dissonance
I am realizing that when I do think for myself and have a good idea, my mom, and other narcs in my life, likes to find some way to take it as her idea. She'll do this "uh huh, yes, yes, I feel the exact same way" and take over the conversation. I've had coworkers put down my ideas only to present it as their idea after gaslighting me. Narcs like to project their bad qualities onto us, while they take our good qualities. So much of our authentic selves has been borrowed by others
Exactly! It's like they try to get information from the target, and then parrot it back to the target in front of others to make it look like it came from them....
@@Peanuts76She's right to feel angry about that. Don't tell her how she has to feel. The best tip is learning how to feel but don't Express it while around them bc, you know, they are parasites.
@@MindBodyStormYes. They are weird af. That's why I stay away from people that I perceive to be fake and phony. Most of the time, they are covert narcissists.
For me, I had to abandon my emotions to comfort her (even though she’s the one who hurt me in the first place) self sacrifice. Its never been emotionally safe to stick up for myself because she instills guilt. I’ve always felt guilty for expressing the ways she has hurt me in fear that she will feel guilty. How messed up is that. I’ve tried no contact but the fear she instills in me runs deep. She’s always said things like “I’m your mother, you’re going to regret that someday, shame on you, you hate me, I’m gonna die someday” which literally tears me apart because I love her more than she could understand. And she says she loves me but I believe she only loves the idea of having a daughter. She doesn’t like or accept the person I am, never respected boundaries, and says she wants me to be happy but guilts trips me for doing things I genuinely enjoy
Sounds familiar. Ignore the guilt trips because it’s a manipulation tactic. Read up on covert narcissism. I’m 60 years old and I’m just realizing that I don’t even know myself. I stopped talking to my mother in 2018. It’s been a long road to travel and yes, I had to deal with the guilt of ignoring her. My mother suffers from depression and anxiety, and she blames everybody for everything and refuses to get help. She was very controlling, and I was raised without boundaries. She has my brother and my father, and they are more than happy to enable her. I’m basically reparenting myself and learning to love myself. I have a daughter who is 26 and a nurse. I love her more than anything, and only want the best for her. And unlike my relationship with my mother, I will be there for my daughter emotionally. There’s a lot of good literature out there. Lisa Romano is one of them and she has lots of TH-cam videos and classes. You have to help yourself now. If I can do it, you can do it. If you can afford therapy, try and find a therapist who deals with narcissistic abuse, and being raised by depressed or alcoholic parents.
Thanks so much for addressing enmeshment trauma and how covert it is. My mom still asks me repeatedly "are you sure?" And my dad is master at shooting the look of contempt. I learned at a young age I had to sacrifice authenticity in order to stay connected with my parents. I have always looked to others for what I'm feeling and to make sure I'm doing things right. In a highschool assignment I described myself as a chameleon among my friends and that my mom treated me like an extension of her, yet it was back when these issues weren't addressed. Feeling like I have no self, no wonder I surrounded myself with narcissists throughout my life and gravitate towards people with a strong identities.
I agree with you except for "strong identities". Narcissists are quite coward and I doubt they have identities, otherwise they wouldn't act just the same. They are dependant of others attention. Without people they are no one.
THIS WAS ME!!!!! Michele! Oh my gosh!!!! You are blowing my mind! 🤯🤯🤯 This video is so important right now. I'm detaching from my parents. I'm 41 🤦🏻♀️ This enmeshment is hard to untangle from 😓😖
@@nandinigogoi2584 I felt the same way at first, that I allowed it to happen. But I realized that's not true. The truth is I was manipulated into thinking a certain way, which allowed my mother to play her games. If you didn't know, it's not your fault. It's on parents to do the right thing and lead us in the right direction. If we don't know something, how can we stop it?
@@KayciazWorld Exactly she was playing her games and I could not understand..bcoz i was a kid...Not even adults understand such evilness and we were just kids ..True every bit..Cant blame self ..someone who should protect us becomes so evil we r helpless
This is oddly remniscent of why people accept low wage jobs. It feels like all you can get and all you are worth. But when people quit mcdonalds they realize they were always worth tremendously more.
My elderly narcissist mom lives in my home, and I hate it every day. Your first example about the heat is exactly what happens at my house. I make her say if she wants the heat up or down. On the other hand, she has stolen my joy.
Almost everything they do is orchestrated to steal your joy except for the few rare times where they strategically throw in some intermittent reinforcement to keep you stringing along or breadcrumbing you for their love and affection
I gotta say Michele that these past 2 yrs I've come to soo many realizations about myself and who many ppl are and I'm able to identify ppl almost immediately these days. I recognize how soo many parents do attachment parenting. My life has always dragged and I never really got anywhere. I was always ended up in a toxic relationship and was always surrounded by narcissists. It's my mother who brought Narcissism to my attn, telling me what it was while I was in my last very toxic relationship that destroyed any progress I had made before hand. I'm 45 and I had lost EVERYTHING, including my freedom for awhile. I've been stuck living with my parents now rebuilding after all the trouble I've gone through. These past 2 yrs I've recognized that my own mother this entire time has been a covert narcissist.. I've always been codependent and never realized it. Codependency is how the narcissist gets you. I'm soo relieved I've made these realizations and I'm currently working on getting away from it all. Soo happy I've been awakened!
@@lesleygarvs4640 Bingo... I learned this roughly 2yrs ago and am slowly making the corrections to make things right. I'm 45 and that's what pisses me off most.. That I never knew, and then one day woke up and recognized certain things about myself and others around me,, I had been codependent my entire life but conditioned to be that way. Now rhat my mother knows I know and I'm well aware of her behavior she does sneaky things and constantly takes jabs at me to get me to react. Always snooping through personal stuff and tries to manipulate and control everything... She does this with the entire family. Really pisses me off!
@Clara A I sure would not criticize anyone living with their parents again Sweetheart, you never know what this life has in store for You and with you being so Damn Judge mental no telling what your life is going to be like ! You must be a Narcissistic Sociopath! They have no empathy for others ! Hard times fall upon Us all !
@Clara A I’m not doing it for no reason ! You made that other girl feel like a piece of Shit for living with Her Parents and there is no excuse for that ! None whatsoever!
These Narcissist are the ones that create that Codependency in Us , and then they use that against Us ! I’m like You , I just realized two years ago at age 60 that It was My Mom who was My whole problem. I found out also that She’s a Narcissistic Sociopath! These People are full of Demons ! I am now 62 and had to move back home for a few months while waiting to close on my forever Home ! I moved out of State away from all Humans , I now live on a Mountain in the middle of nowhere with just My Animals, and I’ve never been Happier ! Theses Entities hate to see You happy ! They hate it ! My Mom would literally love seeing me go through hard times ! I thought I was going to lose My mind living with Her again ! She is the most miserable person ever ! A hateful Spirit! I prayed to GOD everyday to keep my sanity ! I know exactly how You are feeling ! She was constantly criticizing everything about me , and always judging me ! She projected all of Her insecurities and Low self esteem and shame and guilt onto me , but the minute I found that out , it all just went away , and that was 2 years ago ! That was all Her ! These Entities Will mind screw You all the time ! They live to cause confusion and misery ! GOD bless You , and good luck ! I’m here if You need to talk !
Wow. That is the case with my mom. Example: There is an employee cafeteria at my work, but the food isn't healthy, and I'm trying to eat better. My mom would ask, "The food is great there, right? You can eat the salad bar, right?" and I would try to explain that No, this isn't good food, so I want to cook my own lunch. My mom would then say, "But you can find SOMEthing, right? It's still great food, right?" over and over and over, many different conversations. Like it just wasn't an option in her reality.
This exactly describes the relationship with my Mum. I didn't remember much of my childhood & I moved away in my 20s. I moved back 5 years ago and at 35 went no contact. I couldn't tolerate the triangulation, contempt and she began to cross physical boundaries. No contact is best decision I have made.
You Nailed it Michele! This is exactly how it happens. You have serious done an amazing job on putting this together. From age zero to seven years old is the main years this all takes place. Great vid x
"Are you sure?" at least implies some sort of choice. I always got, "What do you want to do that for?", usually in a hostile tone, which completely demolishes any sense of self-confidence in a child when heard repeatedly, especially when regarding important decisions. When I was thirteen I had to choose my confirmation name. Every choice I came up with was shot down by my parents with, "What do you want to call yourself that for?". When I found out you could just go with your baptismal name, I did that, I was so discouraged with the whole thing. They had to make such an issue over a name no one uses anyway. But it was important to thirteen year old me.
What’s really sick is when your parents are like this and deprive you of basic things like education and experiences outside the home. Then your only skills in life are catering to narcissists. The only way to get out is to suck up to some narcissist and fight like hell to get rid of the old narcissist. Inless you are very lucky and make a logical decision to be with someone who feels more healthy (which won’t feel natural at all). I got out of my hellish home situation and live with my husband and two kids. Luckily my husband is pretty healthy mentally and understood my situation very deeply bc his grandmother is just like my mother. But even after many years of marriage I struggle to know who I am or what I want or to find a way to voice my needs. Life is a struggle.
This is how you keep having the same kind of shitty relationships over and over again...... that love of pain. It wasn't until I backed out of any and all relationships and concentrating on stopping the dynamic, and learning what in the hell it was..... that It stopped, but I'm still trying to figure out who in the hell I really am. Thanks mom and dad....LOL
Number 2 was the opposite for me. My covert mom wanted me to be “peacefully happy” at all times. I wasn’t supposed to cry, be angry/sad, or be excited. I wasn’t very good at this. That’s why I was the scapegoat.
Same! Really confusing. On the other hand if she would feel that I was actually doing well in the sense that I would set boundaries and become more detached/autonomical, she would drag arguments like: Hmm, are you sure about this job, are you sure about this girlfriend, are you sure you want to end up like this, etcetera? She would either make me question myself by being rejective in some sense. Now I realise why she did that. Because she wants to have control over me. It’s the only way we bond with each other. Now I keep my distance and keep things on the surface with her, there’s actually nothing really left to talk about anymore. Now I start to come to terms with the fact that she’s actually damaged her self, and that I am not her golden child or parent, it’s easier to not let her have control over my life in a emotional sense anymore. But what remains is a child who just kind of pretends that things are peacefully fine; even though I’m still going through therapy. I will just tell her that it was great and really helpful. Nothing more, nothing less.
Such great insights Michele, thank you for your wisdom. Another way I could see the covert narcissist parent handling the heat in the car situation is just asking if the child is cold for the sake of seeming concerned for their wellbeing, when they really just wanted an excuse to turn it up for themselves. And they go ahead and turn the heat up no matter the child's response OR not turn it up if the child's fine and just become very bitter and resentful that they now have to suffer in the cold because of the child's "incorrect" perception. And they take that resentment out on the child. Ultimately it's all about them, but with the guise of seeming like a concerned parent.
This gave me goosebumps. For the record, I'm a mother-enmeshed man in my 50s who, believe it or not, has only recently become aware of my mother's covert narcissism. My siblings and I have always found it amusing when our mother rubs her arms and demonstrably shivers when we're not bundled up like she is. With a pained expression, she will say, "Aren't you cold?" To the uninitiated, it sounds like a question. But we know it as the first of as many repetitions as it will take until we don a sweater. Similarly, when we were younger and riding in the car with the radio on and we subconsciously hummed along with whatever song happened to be on heavy rotation at the time, she would sometimes say, with an expression one might have if they found their child eating a cat turd, "You LIKE this song???" Mind you, the song was not one we had written, or recorded, or chosen to play from the DJ booth, or even chosen to listen to. We were simply passing the time by humming along with it. I finally broke her off of the habit when I began reacting by saying, "Oh, I guess not," while pretending to be startled back to my senses and turning the radio off.
Such a great video and thanks to you for that. I sacrificed myself for so many years growing up with two narc parents. Everything you have said is “SPOT ON”. One of the best explanations I have heard. Oh my gosh, so much damage done and it’s taken me till mid 50’s to truly understand and finally put boundaries in place. After doing that my entire family cut me off. So hurtful and deep down knew this would happen hence trying, but not going through with it until it came down to a survival level. I also found out after standing up for myself, the emotional punishment they put me through was even worse than what I imagined.
It took me a long time to finally stand up to overt and covert social bullying. I was in my 40s before I finally had my “do or die” moment with conflict. I think what I need the most now is to develop more self trust. And yes. Over 50 now and trying to still figure out who I really am more fully.
Just like your name says “ Good Enough Girl “ and I feel just like You ! I’m 62 and doing the same , but remember this ,We come into this Prison Planet to learn , and to be happy ! This is where We learn , so You never make mistakes, you just learn from life ! And press forward and move on ! You see Our lives are like a a Book with New Chapters ! Some good , Some bad ! Cherish the good , forget the bad and learn from it all ! Humans are constantly in a state of judgment with each other ! Let’s just live , and let live ! I wish U all the Happiness you can contain !
@@monabarber2335 Ikr. Very true. Thanks! And same to you! Def I named myself that on purpose. At least on YT (which I am on a lot ha ha) this is my name. So every time I see it, my brain has to say each time “good enough.” Well I figure it can’t hurt anyways even tho the urge to be perfectionistic or to somehow be this “better” person gets the best of me at times. I agree tho. Judgment is everywhere and if we don’t put a shield up around us to combat some of it, it will beat us up and yet everyone has issues. It will always be the pot calling the kettle black so at some point you just say stop. Enough. At what point do I get to be good enough tho? And Bcuz if I don’t do it for myself, nobody else will. I think at times it’s a struggle to not fall into the perfection trap but I def do way better with the constant reminder that I’m good enough. How well I do a thing or what I do or how much I do or even “how I am” is good enough. But right? Grace. I think one ancient thing says “living by the letter of the law is cursed” but living by grace is blessed. So yah. Good enough. Good enough to at least put all my strivings into working on a lifestyle of grace and mercy rather than striving to be “perfect.” And even tho I don’t always get it right, I guess effort is what it’s all about anyways. Also it’s putting the cart before the horse imo. Humans have so often gotten the whole thing backwards. Self acceptance first and foremost...and then work on things. Not strive and work for self acceptance or to “qualify” for someone else or love or approval or blessings etc. It’s dismal Bcuz the horses never go anywhere and you just wear yourself out trying to “make” something happen and there is no end to it never being good enough.
@@goodenoughgirl8102 I agree with everything You said , but also We have to remember that We don’t have to please anyone but GOD and then Ourselves! I grew up with two Evil Narcissistic Sociopaths for Parents who did nothing but put Me down and judge Me and project all of their guilt , shame , low self esteem and insecurities onto Me ! And the Hell if it is , I just discovered this 2 years ago , and as soon as I realized I was never the bad child , it was truly them , all that left in an instant . And I grew up feeling inferior, no confidence, low self esteem ! Thank GOD all that’s gone , and here I am older , and more confident and self assured than ever ! I’ve learned that lesson I came here to learn ! One of many ! Remember JESUS is perfection , and He doesn’t expect any of Us to be ! Look at it like this , This Planet is a Big School ! And just keep checking off all the things You’ve learned ! I learned to put myself before everyone, and I’m happier than I’ve ever been ! Because of My Mom projecting onto Me I’ve been a People pleaser all My life ! Now it’s all about Me ! Woohoo 🥳and it’s working! Humans are Selfish by Nature , you ever notice how everyone wants to talk about themselves, they don’t listen ! I put Me first , but I listen and learn ! You can learn a lot by just listening! I guess that’s why We have 2 Ears and one Mouth ( LOL ) You are Actually more than enough ! You truly are ! I’m an Empath , and sometimes I think 🤔 it’s a curse , I feel things so deeply! I say I am a light 💡 Barer ! I come to Spread Joy and Happiness wherever I go ! My Mom hates Me because of My Happy Spirit, and did a lot to damage it ! I’m being Blessed now and living My Dream 🛌 and She’s so Mad ! I say Good always Wins !
@@monabarber2335 Lol. I love it. Right tho? I def think I’ve grown Bcuz now I rather enjoy the fact that I bring them such “displeasure.” 😂😂 If they were ever happy with me then I’d def need a gut check. But of course Narcs. When are they ever happy anyways? My parents were religious also so there was that extra there with using scripture like a weapon against me. Plus a narc church mentor...which is what drove me to learn oh so much about these narc creatures. I guess I got too far with God tho to ever throw that away, even tho I sure was mad at God for awhile and very confused. The “Gospel” isn’t what was tainted tho. It was their spin on it that was so jacked up. But yah back to not pleasing everyone. Now if anyone calls me names or a biotch I’m just like ha ha. Thanks. And then I know those folks aren’t worth a second of my worry. Def it’s a lot easier to take the learning approach than it is the “be perfect” approach. And I agree also. The world is just chock full of stupid people. (I use that word but idk fools. Ignoramuses. Selfish etc). Maybe it’s menopause or maybe I’ve just learned so much now that I just ain’t got time for that crap anymore. Lol. And the self discovery is da bomb tho. I’m really enjoying delving into what makes me tick and the things I’m good at and my personal good qualities. Also it’s a very organic way to just not have time for idiots anymore. Im too busy with myself to “help” them so much anymore (or rather just get used pretty much). As imperfect as we all are, there is still good to be found there (except for narcs of course...screw them lol). And right? If they want a personal Jesus then they need to call him up Bcuz that ain’t me. 😅😅
Recently called out my covert narc mom on the things she said to me and behaviors that hurt me (saying I’m like my father, saying I don’t care about her and I only think about myself, ending the conversation and acting cold towards me). This was the first time I confronted her after years of her trauma dumping on me and me putting up with it and being her child therapist. Last night she started arguing me out of nowhere and rambling about how she can’t complain about my father anymore and that he talks badly about her all the time behind closed doors. I’ve never seen her that angery. Then out of nowhere she flipped a switch and told me to forget about it. I feel like I’m finally seeing the real her
Thank you Michele for this and the past videos. They have been helping me a lot! Some time ago I felt like I was living again, being my true self and everything but recently as I moved back to my family house due to the pandemic all of the past things and triggers have been coming back. Especially the relationship with my mother. By mentioning those stages of healing, did you mean the 8 stages of psychosocial development? Thank you for everything that you're doing! It's life changing! Lots of hugs!! :)
PRAYER: - to (re)unite and be with the true real love of my life (my twin flame) - total and complete healing, permanently: physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, generationally, cellularly - perfect health: on every level, in every way, for myself and my family - abundant wealth - closer healthier deeper relationships with each person in my immediate family
The enmeshment is so sublte but so damaging. I remember riding a roller coaster with my dad, he insisted I was scared when I absolutely was not. I am sure he did this all of the time but that time it was so clear.
Have you made a video of narcissistic children of parents who aren't narcs? I know a mother who has a narc child (his father is a narc but the parents have always been separated so the child was raised by an empathic mother). The mother is reluctant to view herself as a 'victim' of her child (now a teenager). How should parents handle their children if they are narcissistic? I know psychologists don't like to label children/teenagers but that doesn't change the real-life facts.
It's common for people who were raised to enable toxic people to unintentionally promote those traits in their children also. It's something I look out for myself, being a lifelong victim of narcissistic abuse and now the single parent of two children. I have to learn to re-parent myself so I can be a stronger parent for my children. Due to our CPTSD we probably don't know how to deal with our own feelings, let alone teach a child a healthier way of dealing with theirs. And we tend to shut down emotionally when we see pain. We may even become triggered and project our abusers onto our children in fleeting moments(i.e.: feeling it's futile to teach or show anything in the face of resistance). A lot of narcissists act like little kids themselves. But it's developmentally appropriate for young children to behave that way sometimes and need a lot of validation from their parent. We have to show our kids a better way by finding one ourselves. Narcissism is thought to be partly caused by a strange mix of over and under indulgence of the child. So there are probably things you are missing because you simply haven't seen a healthier alternative. I would suggest looking for more outside support for the children, get outside the toxic family system as much as possible. There are healthier people out there and better ways to do a lot of things. It may take us forever to relearn these things but I think it's the trying that makes the biggest difference. What would it have meant to you if your parent genuinely just tried and was willing to admit when they were wrong or needed outside help? Seek more outside help if possible.
Every time I think I have a handle on her, more of my emotions are exposed and I’m in shock all over again. This. Is. My. Mother. This is why I’m so repressed and self loathing and rage filled and begging for validation everywhere. Symptoms I was in tune with,I knew was a problem. But the reason…I was so blind. Couldn’t figure it out. Couldn’t trust myself even when I suspected it might be narc. My family believes it’s real love and wonderful to this day. Disgusting.
I am 27 years old, and my mother still tries to mess with my perception. Trying to force me to date and get married. While I'm not even interested in a relationship and I'm focused in my career. She keeps asking me 2 to 3 times in a week when is she meeting my boyfriend, or saying your boyfriend this this and that (while I don't have a boyfriend) omg... I can't, I just can't. It's crazy making
OMG! I feel like this is my stepson’s situation with his mom who just started his freshmen year. He talks to a therapist, that his mom chose… If you know someone who specializes in narcissist abuse/ ‘enmeshment trauma here in Austin, TX I would love for you to share their info… I’ve watched MANY videos and read about narcissistic abuse, specifically from a mother to a son, and others but this video hit me to the core… never heard of ‘ Enmeshment Trauma’
I wonder too, if we have trouble with our self identity and we take pieces from other people because our family of origin didn’t give us anything we wanted to copy. Meaning, if both of your parents are abusive and your siblings, get into drugs, you’re gonna want a different life than that And you’re going to look to see what other people do in order to have some sort of foundation.
I learned that in order to be loved you need to inspire pitty and the more you're sick and have problem the more you have attention. But today I don't buy that anymore.
That explains why my biggest want in life is to be back in a relationship….I used to feel good just living my life….it seems like I mostly healed during my early and mid twenties , then I met my ex girlfriend and a few years later , all of that healing was gone and I was worse off than went I left home
My ex would do this to me and our 2 sons.The oldest son got it the worst he eventually started playing her to shut her up.The funniest thing he ever told me was his mom made him eat pickles for punishment at times witch I seen happening.But he actually liked pickles and she thought he hated them.She would liked to ask them what they wanted to eat when we went out to eat but would tell them what they was having to eat.
Not sure if my problem applied as enmeshment? I am a 32 yrs old female, single & I’m still living with my parents. Anw I just cried over small arguments with my mom. I said I don’t want to eat egg for breakfast, and she forced me to eat it. She keeps saying why I keep disobeying her not like my other cousins who obey their mothers. She keeps saying that I will drive her insane & dead if I don’t listen to her. For goodness sake I’m not doing drugs or doing free sex & crimes. But I was expected to obey her in certain things. I sometimes just can’t voice my opinion, any different opinions will be regarded as disobedience. My mom is not narcissistic &abusive, she works hard to protect & provide for me, but I do think she has huge victim mentality problem (as my dad turns out not as she expected). She keeps telling me how hard her past was, and kind of expected me to empathize with the same experiences. She was born in 50s & I’m in 90s. Of course you can’t expect same experiences in modern society right? And if she feels sad or upset, it’s kinda expected that I will need to display same emotion too. But if she ever saw me cried because stressed from work? She would dismiss me as being too over sensitive & I need to toughen up. It may not be as horrible as Jeanette’s abuse, but I’m not so sure if this is a form of enmeshed family? Or am I too over sensitive?
I totally relate to this. I help beggers and one time I didn t and I was passing by and I had all this guilt and enmeshment. It totally comes from childhood, from families we had to feel obigated to share our toys, or our clothes without a feeling of self. I will get better. I am just noticing enmeshment in my personality, when in reality I am free. On the other hand can be that beggers are also manipulators. I live in a rich country and beggers here beg for drugs, not neccesarily for food. Waking up to society, and changing my own enmeshments from misunderstanding religion too. Thanks, Michele. You look great! 🙋♀️
Hi So the meetings are on Tuesdays at 1:00 p.m. EDT/Fridays at 4:00 p.m. (for group coaching and/or EFT sessions and Sundays at 1:00 p.m. EDT for breathwork sessions
I can understand where you're coming from - but I don't recommend showing him this information - one for legal reasons and two the more you try to prove what the other parent is the less the child sees it.... there are other ways - better ways to help your children!!!! That's just my personal opinion
@@FromSurvivingToThriving yes I understand I just worry about my son and his mental health..but, I'm not going to go down to her level she is just desperate because I was awarded 70/30 custody of my son, and she is just trying anything to change that, but I always said my actions are going to speak louder than words, and my son will see for him self
Anytime I say I dont want something my mother would insist until I either took it or we had a fight. For my entire life. She tells me what I like or dont. She tells me how everything I want will go horribly wrong. When I told her how bad it made me feel she said it didnt and kept doing it even though I left her house in tears every time.When things do go wrong she gets to be the loving all powerful mother and I am her failure who needs her to survive. I tried to kill myself because she set up a situation to fail and she dragged me back to hell. Blamed me for everything that goes wrong in my relatives' lives even though its ridiculous. Silent treatment whenever I stood up for myself. Let my sister and family scapegoat and bait me and abused me when I fought back. Crippled my confidence so I couldn't leave and as a result my life is now terrible. Finally I had a big fight and left her. She threatened me if I didnt come back, I told her I rather die. We finally had a conversation about her treatment of me and she stopped every horrible thing she had done to me, but noone else, for decades. Then she told me she didnt like me as much now since she had stopped and was going to change her will. Still wants me to do all her work - refuses to ask my siblings-and be her captive audience though. Told me she would leave me nothing if I bought a house with her money left to me if she didnt like who I left it to. Despite knowing thanks to her I would be out in the street and have to kill myself if she disinherited me. I pray for her death but I will probably die before she does
Can enmeshment mean that you take on the narcissistic abusive ways and treat others badly as well as yourself because that's all you learned whilst at the same time not being allowed to be yourself?
To some degree, yes. It's called grandiosity. The narcissist regresses you to their childhood to form a trauma bond. Although you won't be as manipulative as they are, you adopt the same artificial approach to people through trauma bonding. You might be punishing yourself through grandiosity and not even know that you do so.
What you say is true. Is it possible to communicate your wisdom without overtly tying it to your personal experience? The experience gained on your journey can help others, but if you’re helping others, it’s not about you. Just saying.
Good luck! I go through the same. The narcissist isn't a real person. The real person died at about 5 years old. If you see him as real you will suffer.
Narcissists parents don’t want them to be happy. They want them to be miserable just like they are. It’s like a bucket of crabs. If one crab tries to climb out another crab will reach up and pull it down.
Ive never heard that expression before
Yes. And that is very unfortunate, which is why other family members/siblings act the way that they do. They hate for you to break away, be your own self, think for yourself, and experience joy.
Very good metaphor! It nails it exactly as it is.
I'll be right back. I have to go bawl my eyes out. I am 49 years old and have no idea who I am. EVERYTHING is about my mother.
It's been a year. How are you doing now?
Did a lot of that til 46. Broke contact this year.
This may seem small but one thing that triggers me the most is my nm demanding I do something rather than ask…like “go get my purse from upstairs”. She truly thinks her kids are her servants.
My "opinions" are praised as long as they agree w others. After 30 years of therapy, I am trying to find and voice my own. My mother keeps asking 'Why are things different? What changed?' I tried gray rocking for over a year and then finally told her that "I started voicing my opinion, and when I do, I am told that I have broken a boundary (of hers)." She didn't like that and hasn't talked to me since. She proved my point. 😮
I experienced a lot of emotional invalidation. If I told my NM she hurt my feelings, she would say no I didn’t. You have no right to feel that way. Even as an adult, this was very confusing. It causes cognitive dissonance
That was not cool. It creates confusion.
I am realizing that when I do think for myself and have a good idea, my mom, and other narcs in my life, likes to find some way to take it as her idea. She'll do this "uh huh, yes, yes, I feel the exact same way" and take over the conversation. I've had coworkers put down my ideas only to present it as their idea after gaslighting me. Narcs like to project their bad qualities onto us, while they take our good qualities. So much of our authentic selves has been borrowed by others
Dont feel angry, because that's what they expect from you, they feed on your emotions....
Exactly! It's like they try to get information from the target, and then parrot it back to the target in front of others to make it look like it came from them....
@@Peanuts76She's right to feel angry about that.
Don't tell her how she has to feel.
The best tip is learning how to feel but don't Express it while around them bc, you know, they are parasites.
@@MindBodyStormYes. They are weird af.
That's why I stay away from people that I perceive to be fake and phony.
Most of the time, they are covert narcissists.
@@b_b_b5146 Yeah, because otherwise it will most likely be a case of potential "domestic violence"......All orchestrated by you know who😃‼️
For me, I had to abandon my emotions to comfort her (even though she’s the one who hurt me in the first place) self sacrifice.
Its never been emotionally safe to stick up for myself because she instills guilt. I’ve always felt guilty for expressing the ways she has hurt me in fear that she will feel guilty. How messed up is that.
I’ve tried no contact but the fear she instills in me runs deep. She’s always said things like “I’m your mother, you’re going to regret that someday, shame on you, you hate me, I’m gonna die someday” which literally tears me apart because I love her more than she could understand. And she says she loves me but I believe she only loves the idea of having a daughter. She doesn’t like or accept the person I am, never respected boundaries, and says she wants me to be happy but guilts trips me for doing things I genuinely enjoy
Sounds familiar. Ignore the guilt trips because it’s a manipulation tactic. Read up on covert narcissism. I’m 60 years old and I’m just realizing that I don’t even know myself. I stopped talking to my mother in 2018. It’s been a long road to travel and yes, I had to deal with the guilt of ignoring her. My mother suffers from depression and anxiety, and she blames everybody for everything and refuses to get help. She was very controlling, and I was raised without boundaries. She has my brother and my father, and they are more than happy to enable her. I’m basically reparenting myself and learning to love myself. I have a daughter who is 26 and a nurse. I love her more than anything, and only want the best for her. And unlike my relationship with my mother, I will be there for my daughter emotionally. There’s a lot of good literature out there. Lisa Romano is one of them and she has lots of TH-cam videos and classes. You have to help yourself now. If I can do it, you can do it. If you can afford therapy, try and find a therapist who deals with narcissistic abuse, and being raised by depressed or alcoholic parents.
In the case where the child says "you are making me unhappy", the parent will soften say, "nobody can make you feel anything."
Or “ why are you saying that about me? Are you trying to hurt me ?”
Or they become enraged and bring up all the times you “hurt” them.
What make me think about typical new age phrasing and how toxic and dangerous it can be for victims of narcissistic abuse.
@@Applepie910oh absolutely! Tbh I think so many cults are just magnets for victims of narc abuse. The loss of identity feels comfortable
YES!!
Thanks so much for addressing enmeshment trauma and how covert it is. My mom still asks me repeatedly "are you sure?" And my dad is master at shooting the look of contempt. I learned at a young age I had to sacrifice authenticity in order to stay connected with my parents. I have always looked to others for what I'm feeling and to make sure I'm doing things right.
In a highschool assignment I described myself as a chameleon among my friends and that my mom treated me like an extension of her, yet it was back when these issues weren't addressed.
Feeling like I have no self, no wonder I surrounded myself with narcissists throughout my life and gravitate towards people with a strong identities.
I can relate.
Excellent comment! Thanks
I agree with you except for "strong identities". Narcissists are quite coward and I doubt they have identities, otherwise they wouldn't act just the same. They are dependant of others attention. Without people they are no one.
THIS WAS ME!!!!!
Michele! Oh my gosh!!!! You are blowing my mind! 🤯🤯🤯
This video is so important right now. I'm detaching from my parents. I'm 41 🤦🏻♀️ This enmeshment is hard to untangle from 😓😖
Same I realized at 41 how much my mother had suffocated me over ages..And I let it happen
@@nandinigogoi2584 I felt the same way at first, that I allowed it to happen. But I realized that's not true. The truth is I was manipulated into thinking a certain way, which allowed my mother to play her games. If you didn't know, it's not your fault. It's on parents to do the right thing and lead us in the right direction. If we don't know something, how can we stop it?
@@KayciazWorld Exactly she was playing her games and I could not understand..bcoz i was a kid...Not even adults understand such evilness and we were just kids ..True every bit..Cant blame self ..someone who should protect us becomes so evil we r helpless
Thank you for describing this so well, I hadn’t heard it so clearly before.
It’s so sad. I choose friends I don’t feel safe with because it feels like home.
I married one
E P same...
❤
This is oddly remniscent of why people accept low wage jobs. It feels like all you can get and all you are worth. But when people quit mcdonalds they realize they were always worth tremendously more.
My elderly narcissist mom lives in my home, and I hate it every day.
Your first example about the heat is exactly what happens at my house. I make her say if she wants the heat up or down. On the other hand, she has stolen my joy.
These Demons live to steal Your JOY!
Gail, omg I have this same conversation every day
Almost everything they do is orchestrated to steal your joy except for the few rare times where they strategically throw in some intermittent reinforcement to keep you stringing along or breadcrumbing you for their love and affection
Put her in a home. Her time is done ⏰
I gotta say Michele that these past 2 yrs I've come to soo many realizations about myself and who many ppl are and I'm able to identify ppl almost immediately these days. I recognize how soo many parents do attachment parenting. My life has always dragged and I never really got anywhere. I was always ended up in a toxic relationship and was always surrounded by narcissists. It's my mother who brought Narcissism to my attn, telling me what it was while I was in my last very toxic relationship that destroyed any progress I had made before hand. I'm 45 and I had lost EVERYTHING, including my freedom for awhile. I've been stuck living with my parents now rebuilding after all the trouble I've gone through. These past 2 yrs I've recognized that my own mother this entire time has been a covert narcissist.. I've always been codependent and never realized it. Codependency is how the narcissist gets you. I'm soo relieved I've made these realizations and I'm currently working on getting away from it all. Soo happy I've been awakened!
Narc parents make you childish, so that you crawl back at any age... And then remark you what a failure you are. In other words retraumatize you again
@@lesleygarvs4640 Bingo... I learned this roughly 2yrs ago and am slowly making the corrections to make things right. I'm 45 and that's what pisses me off most.. That I never knew, and then one day woke up and recognized certain things about myself and others around me,, I had been codependent my entire life but conditioned to be that way. Now rhat my mother knows I know and I'm well aware of her behavior she does sneaky things and constantly takes jabs at me to get me to react. Always snooping through personal stuff and tries to manipulate and control everything... She does this with the entire family. Really pisses me off!
@Clara A I sure would not criticize anyone living with their parents again Sweetheart, you never know what this life has in store for You and with you being so Damn Judge mental no telling what your life is going to be like ! You must be a Narcissistic Sociopath! They have no empathy for others ! Hard times fall upon Us all !
@Clara A I’m not doing it for no reason ! You made that other girl feel like a piece of Shit for living with Her Parents and there is no excuse for that ! None whatsoever!
These Narcissist are the ones that create that Codependency in Us , and then they use that against Us ! I’m like You , I just realized two years ago at age 60 that It was My Mom who was My whole problem. I found out also that She’s a Narcissistic Sociopath! These People are full of Demons ! I am now 62 and had to move back home for a few months while waiting to close on my forever Home ! I moved out of State away from all Humans , I now live on a Mountain in the middle of nowhere with just My Animals, and I’ve never been Happier ! Theses Entities hate to see You happy ! They hate it ! My Mom would literally love seeing me go through hard times ! I thought I was going to lose My mind living with Her again ! She is the most miserable person ever ! A hateful Spirit! I prayed to GOD everyday to keep my sanity ! I know exactly how You are feeling ! She was constantly criticizing everything about me , and always judging me ! She projected all of Her insecurities and Low self esteem and shame and guilt onto me , but the minute I found that out , it all just went away , and that was 2 years ago ! That was all Her ! These Entities Will mind screw You all the time ! They live to cause confusion and misery ! GOD bless You , and good luck ! I’m here if You need to talk !
Wow. That is the case with my mom. Example: There is an employee cafeteria at my work, but the food isn't healthy, and I'm trying to eat better. My mom would ask, "The food is great there, right? You can eat the salad bar, right?" and I would try to explain that No, this isn't good food, so I want to cook my own lunch. My mom would then say, "But you can find SOMEthing, right? It's still great food, right?" over and over and over, many different conversations. Like it just wasn't an option in her reality.
This exactly describes the relationship with my Mum. I didn't remember much of my childhood & I moved away in my 20s. I moved back 5 years ago and at 35 went no contact. I couldn't tolerate the triangulation, contempt and she began to cross physical boundaries. No contact is best decision I have made.
Most mothers are like this. They are controlling, narcissistic people. The adult children are damaged. Some, beyond repair.
OMG this was exactly my mother. I'm so glad I left them monthes ago and started healing immediately.
You Nailed it Michele! This is exactly how it happens. You have serious done an amazing job on putting this together. From age zero to seven years old is the main years this all takes place. Great vid x
"Are you sure?" at least implies some sort of choice. I always got, "What do you want to do that for?", usually in a hostile tone, which completely demolishes any sense of self-confidence in a child when heard repeatedly, especially when regarding important decisions. When I was thirteen I had to choose my confirmation name. Every choice I came up with was shot down by my parents with, "What do you want to call yourself that for?". When I found out you could just go with your baptismal name, I did that, I was so discouraged with the whole thing. They had to make such an issue over a name no one uses anyway. But it was important to thirteen year old me.
What’s really sick is when your parents are like this and deprive you of basic things like education and experiences outside the home. Then your only skills in life are catering to narcissists. The only way to get out is to suck up to some narcissist and fight like hell to get rid of the old narcissist. Inless you are very lucky and make a logical decision to be with someone who feels more healthy (which won’t feel natural at all). I got out of my hellish home situation and live with my husband and two kids. Luckily my husband is pretty healthy mentally and understood my situation very deeply bc his grandmother is just like my mother. But even after many years of marriage I struggle to know who I am or what I want or to find a way to voice my needs. Life is a struggle.
That's GASLIGHTING. NOT a little thing.
This is how you keep having the same kind of shitty relationships over and over again...... that love of pain. It wasn't until I backed out of any and all relationships and concentrating on stopping the dynamic, and learning what in the hell it was..... that It stopped, but I'm still trying to figure out who in the hell I really am. Thanks mom and dad....LOL
Number 2 was the opposite for me. My covert mom wanted me to be “peacefully happy” at all times. I wasn’t supposed to cry, be angry/sad, or be excited. I wasn’t very good at this. That’s why I was the scapegoat.
Same! Really confusing. On the other hand if she would feel that I was actually doing well in the sense that I would set boundaries and become more detached/autonomical, she would drag arguments like: Hmm, are you sure about this job, are you sure about this girlfriend, are you sure you want to end up like this, etcetera? She would either make me question myself by being rejective in some sense. Now I realise why she did that. Because she wants to have control over me. It’s the only way we bond with each other. Now I keep my distance and keep things on the surface with her, there’s actually nothing really left to talk about anymore. Now I start to come to terms with the fact that she’s actually damaged her self, and that I am not her golden child or parent, it’s easier to not let her have control over my life in a emotional sense anymore. But what remains is a child who just kind of pretends that things are peacefully fine; even though I’m still going through therapy. I will just tell her that it was great and really helpful. Nothing more, nothing less.
Such great insights Michele, thank you for your wisdom. Another way I could see the covert narcissist parent handling the heat in the car situation is just asking if the child is cold for the sake of seeming concerned for their wellbeing, when they really just wanted an excuse to turn it up for themselves. And they go ahead and turn the heat up no matter the child's response OR not turn it up if the child's fine and just become very bitter and resentful that they now have to suffer in the cold because of the child's "incorrect" perception. And they take that resentment out on the child. Ultimately it's all about them, but with the guise of seeming like a concerned parent.
This gave me goosebumps. For the record, I'm a mother-enmeshed man in my 50s who, believe it or not, has only recently become aware of my mother's covert narcissism.
My siblings and I have always found it amusing when our mother rubs her arms and demonstrably shivers when we're not bundled up like she is.
With a pained expression, she will say, "Aren't you cold?"
To the uninitiated, it sounds like a question. But we know it as the first of as many repetitions as it will take until we don a sweater.
Similarly, when we were younger and riding in the car with the radio on and we subconsciously hummed along with whatever song happened to be on heavy rotation at the time, she would sometimes say, with an expression one might have if they found their child eating a cat turd, "You LIKE this song???"
Mind you, the song was not one we had written, or recorded, or chosen to play from the DJ booth, or even chosen to listen to. We were simply passing the time by humming along with it.
I finally broke her off of the habit when I began reacting by saying, "Oh, I guess not," while pretending to be startled back to my senses and turning the radio off.
Such a great video and thanks to you for that. I sacrificed myself for so many years growing up with two narc parents. Everything you have said is “SPOT ON”. One of the best explanations I have heard. Oh my gosh, so much damage done and it’s taken me till mid 50’s to truly understand and finally put boundaries in place. After doing that my entire family cut me off. So hurtful and deep down knew this would happen hence trying, but not going through with it until it came down to a survival level.
I also found out after standing up for myself, the emotional punishment they put me through was even worse than what I imagined.
It took me a long time to finally stand up to overt and covert social bullying. I was in my 40s before I finally had my “do or die” moment with conflict. I think what I need the most now is to develop more self trust. And yes. Over 50 now and trying to still figure out who I really am more fully.
Good things happened to us, mam....
Same issues here....
Just like your name says “ Good Enough Girl “ and I feel just like You ! I’m 62 and doing the same , but remember this ,We come into this Prison Planet to learn , and to be happy ! This is where We learn , so You never make mistakes, you just learn from life ! And press forward and move on ! You see Our lives are like a a Book with New Chapters ! Some good , Some bad ! Cherish the good , forget the bad and learn from it all ! Humans are constantly in a state of judgment with each other ! Let’s just live , and let live ! I wish U all the Happiness you can contain !
@@monabarber2335 Ikr. Very true. Thanks! And same to you! Def I named myself that on purpose. At least on YT (which I am on a lot ha ha) this is my name. So every time I see it, my brain has to say each time “good enough.” Well I figure it can’t hurt anyways even tho the urge to be perfectionistic or to somehow be this “better” person gets the best of me at times. I agree tho. Judgment is everywhere and if we don’t put a shield up around us to combat some of it, it will beat us up and yet everyone has issues. It will always be the pot calling the kettle black so at some point you just say stop. Enough. At what point do I get to be good enough tho? And Bcuz if I don’t do it for myself, nobody else will. I think at times it’s a struggle to not fall into the perfection trap but I def do way better with the constant reminder that I’m good enough. How well I do a thing or what I do or how much I do or even “how I am” is good enough. But right? Grace. I think one ancient thing says “living by the letter of the law is cursed” but living by grace is blessed. So yah. Good enough. Good enough to at least put all my strivings into working on a lifestyle of grace and mercy rather than striving to be “perfect.” And even tho I don’t always get it right, I guess effort is what it’s all about anyways. Also it’s putting the cart before the horse imo. Humans have so often gotten the whole thing backwards. Self acceptance first and foremost...and then work on things. Not strive and work for self acceptance or to “qualify” for someone else or love or approval or blessings etc. It’s dismal Bcuz the horses never go anywhere and you just wear yourself out trying to “make” something happen and there is no end to it never being good enough.
@@goodenoughgirl8102 I agree with everything You said , but also We have to remember that We don’t have to please anyone but GOD and then Ourselves! I grew up with two Evil Narcissistic Sociopaths for Parents who did nothing but put Me down and judge Me and project all of their guilt , shame , low self esteem and insecurities onto Me ! And the Hell if it is , I just discovered this 2 years ago , and as soon as I realized I was never the bad child , it was truly them , all that left in an instant . And I grew up feeling inferior, no confidence, low self esteem ! Thank GOD all that’s gone , and here I am older , and more confident and self assured than ever ! I’ve learned that lesson I came here to learn ! One of many ! Remember JESUS is perfection , and He doesn’t expect any of Us to be ! Look at it like this , This Planet is a Big School ! And just keep checking off all the things You’ve learned ! I learned to put myself before everyone, and I’m happier than I’ve ever been ! Because of My Mom projecting onto Me I’ve been a People pleaser all My life ! Now it’s all about Me ! Woohoo 🥳and it’s working! Humans are Selfish by Nature , you ever notice how everyone wants to talk about themselves, they don’t listen ! I put Me first , but I listen and learn ! You can learn a lot by just listening! I guess that’s why We have 2 Ears and one Mouth ( LOL ) You are Actually more than enough ! You truly are ! I’m an Empath , and sometimes I think 🤔 it’s a curse , I feel things so deeply! I say I am a light 💡 Barer ! I come to Spread Joy and Happiness wherever I go ! My Mom hates Me because of My Happy Spirit, and did a lot to damage it ! I’m being Blessed now and living My Dream 🛌 and She’s so Mad ! I say Good always Wins !
@@monabarber2335 Lol. I love it. Right tho? I def think I’ve grown Bcuz now I rather enjoy the fact that I bring them such “displeasure.” 😂😂 If they were ever happy with me then I’d def need a gut check. But of course Narcs. When are they ever happy anyways? My parents were religious also so there was that extra there with using scripture like a weapon against me. Plus a narc church mentor...which is what drove me to learn oh so much about these narc creatures. I guess I got too far with God tho to ever throw that away, even tho I sure was mad at God for awhile and very confused. The “Gospel” isn’t what was tainted tho. It was their spin on it that was so jacked up. But yah back to not pleasing everyone. Now if anyone calls me names or a biotch I’m just like ha ha. Thanks. And then I know those folks aren’t worth a second of my worry. Def it’s a lot easier to take the learning approach than it is the “be perfect” approach. And I agree also. The world is just chock full of stupid people. (I use that word but idk fools. Ignoramuses. Selfish etc). Maybe it’s menopause or maybe I’ve just learned so much now that I just ain’t got time for that crap anymore. Lol. And the self discovery is da bomb tho. I’m really enjoying delving into what makes me tick and the things I’m good at and my personal good qualities. Also it’s a very organic way to just not have time for idiots anymore. Im too busy with myself to “help” them so much anymore (or rather just get used pretty much). As imperfect as we all are, there is still good to be found there (except for narcs of course...screw them lol). And right? If they want a personal Jesus then they need to call him up Bcuz that ain’t me. 😅😅
Ouch. This hits home. Michele, I love your videos, and at the same time I feel so uncomfortable watching them. I know it's something I need to face.
Recently called out my covert narc mom on the things she said to me and behaviors that hurt me (saying I’m like my father, saying I don’t care about her and I only think about myself, ending the conversation and acting cold towards me). This was the first time I confronted her after years of her trauma dumping on me and me putting up with it and being her child therapist. Last night she started arguing me out of nowhere and rambling about how she can’t complain about my father anymore and that he talks badly about her all the time behind closed doors. I’ve never seen her that angery. Then out of nowhere she flipped a switch and told me to forget about it. I feel like I’m finally seeing the real her
Thank you Michele for this and the past videos. They have been helping me a lot! Some time ago I felt like I was living again, being my true self and everything but recently as I moved back to my family house due to the pandemic all of the past things and triggers have been coming back. Especially the relationship with my mother. By mentioning those stages of healing, did you mean the 8 stages of psychosocial development? Thank you for everything that you're doing! It's life changing! Lots of hugs!! :)
This is THE video that explains so much about my life!!!!
PRAYER:
- to (re)unite and be with
the true real love of my life
(my twin flame)
- total and complete healing,
permanently:
physically, emotionally, spiritually,
mentally, generationally, cellularly
- perfect health: on every level,
in every way, for myself and my family
- abundant wealth
- closer healthier deeper relationships
with each person in my immediate family
This is so good. I needed to hear all this today
The enmeshment is so sublte but so damaging. I remember riding a roller coaster with my dad, he insisted I was scared when I absolutely was not. I am sure he did this all of the time but that time it was so clear.
Thank you! 🥺😭 I am one step closer to healing, thanks to this video.
Wish me luck on my journey in educating myself so i can maybe start healing y'all...
You’re describing what my life used to be!!! Wow!
Dear Michelle, what made you start healing? When did you know (and why), that you had been twisted with narcissism?
dude.. you have no idea how this video has helped me. thank you.
This information is SO good… thank you for sharing these specifics!
You explained it so well. ….I sense all of this , but can’t put it into words
It is the middle of Swift Mania. Notice she takes on the identity of whoever she dates. God Bless her. ❤
Such a valuable video- clearly explained, deep and incisive. Thank you so much.
Omg this was perfect timing.... 🙏❤
Wow thanks! Answers to many of my questions here. :)
That's it.
I just don't know how to do it all.
I believe there is no chance for me.
I don't even have an ego anymore
Have you made a video of narcissistic children of parents who aren't narcs? I know a mother who has a narc child (his father is a narc but the parents have always been separated so the child was raised by an empathic mother). The mother is reluctant to view herself as a 'victim' of her child (now a teenager). How should parents handle their children if they are narcissistic? I know psychologists don't like to label children/teenagers but that doesn't change the real-life facts.
From an exhausted and confused mother, I am also wondering...
It's common for people who were raised to enable toxic people to unintentionally promote those traits in their children also. It's something I look out for myself, being a lifelong victim of narcissistic abuse and now the single parent of two children. I have to learn to re-parent myself so I can be a stronger parent for my children.
Due to our CPTSD we probably don't know how to deal with our own feelings, let alone teach a child a healthier way of dealing with theirs. And we tend to shut down emotionally when we see pain. We may even become triggered and project our abusers onto our children in fleeting moments(i.e.: feeling it's futile to teach or show anything in the face of resistance). A lot of narcissists act like little kids themselves. But it's developmentally appropriate for young children to behave that way sometimes and need a lot of validation from their parent. We have to show our kids a better way by finding one ourselves.
Narcissism is thought to be partly caused by a strange mix of over and under indulgence of the child. So there are probably things you are missing because you simply haven't seen a healthier alternative. I would suggest looking for more outside support for the children, get outside the toxic family system as much as possible. There are healthier people out there and better ways to do a lot of things. It may take us forever to relearn these things but I think it's the trying that makes the biggest difference. What would it have meant to you if your parent genuinely just tried and was willing to admit when they were wrong or needed outside help? Seek more outside help if possible.
You're basically describing my childhood and present day. I promise sometimes i fewl like overt narcs are less confusing to deal with
Oh I certainly remember my childhood 🙄
Every time I think I have a handle on her, more of my emotions are exposed and I’m in shock all over again. This. Is. My. Mother. This is why I’m so repressed and self loathing and rage filled and begging for validation everywhere. Symptoms I was in tune with,I knew was a problem. But the reason…I was so blind. Couldn’t figure it out. Couldn’t trust myself even when I suspected it might be narc. My family believes it’s real love and wonderful to this day. Disgusting.
I am 27 years old, and my mother still tries to mess with my perception. Trying to force me to date and get married. While I'm not even interested in a relationship and I'm focused in my career. She keeps asking me 2 to 3 times in a week when is she meeting my boyfriend, or saying your boyfriend this this and that (while I don't have a boyfriend) omg... I can't, I just can't. It's crazy making
If you want a family and you put a career, first. Stay single. The feminist lifestyle hurts families and kids.
I liked the point about conflict and abandonment
OMG! I feel like this is my stepson’s situation with his mom who just started his freshmen year. He talks to a therapist, that his mom chose…
If you know someone who specializes in narcissist abuse/ ‘enmeshment trauma here in Austin, TX I would love for you to share their info… I’ve watched MANY videos and read about narcissistic abuse, specifically from a mother to a son, and others but this video hit me to the core… never heard of ‘ Enmeshment Trauma’
Wow!! Absolutely incredible!! ❤️🩹
Thank you, this is my issue, again, thank you....
I wonder too, if we have trouble with our self identity and we take pieces from other people because our family of origin didn’t give us anything we wanted to copy. Meaning, if both of your parents are abusive and your siblings, get into drugs, you’re gonna want a different life than that And you’re going to look to see what other people do in order to have some sort of foundation.
I learned that in order to be loved you need to inspire pitty and the more you're sick and have problem the more you have attention. But today I don't buy that anymore.
I don’t remember my childhood!
Same, only snippets.
I lived and was my mom for the first 19 years of my life.
Great video! Very clearly explained 👏👏
Can highly relate to this video thank you for the upload on this topic.
Just bang on u have described it so well..every bit of it explained so well
That explains why my biggest want in life is to be back in a relationship….I used to feel good just living my life….it seems like I mostly healed during my early and mid twenties , then I met my ex girlfriend and a few years later , all of that healing was gone and I was worse off than went I left home
This is better and better,
My ex would do this to me and our 2 sons.The oldest son got it the worst he eventually started playing her to shut her up.The funniest thing he ever told me was his mom made him eat pickles for punishment at times witch I seen happening.But he actually liked pickles and she thought he hated them.She would liked to ask them what they wanted to eat when we went out to eat but would tell them what they was having to eat.
Not sure if my problem applied as enmeshment? I am a 32 yrs old female,
single & I’m still living with my parents.
Anw I just cried over small arguments with my mom. I said I don’t want to eat egg for breakfast, and she forced me to eat it. She keeps saying why I keep disobeying her not like my other cousins who obey their mothers. She keeps saying that I will drive her insane & dead if I don’t listen to her.
For goodness sake I’m not doing drugs or doing free sex & crimes. But I was expected to obey her in certain things. I sometimes just can’t voice my opinion, any different opinions will be regarded as disobedience.
My mom is not narcissistic &abusive, she works hard to protect & provide for me, but I do think she has huge victim mentality problem (as my dad turns out not as she expected). She keeps telling me how hard her past was, and kind of expected me to empathize with the same experiences. She was born in 50s & I’m in 90s. Of course you can’t expect same experiences in modern society right?
And if she feels sad or upset, it’s kinda expected that I will need to display same emotion too. But if she ever saw me cried because stressed from work? She would dismiss me as being too over sensitive & I need to toughen up.
It may not be as horrible as Jeanette’s abuse, but I’m not so sure if this is a form of enmeshed family? Or am I too over sensitive?
Nailing it again!!! 🙏
I totally relate to this. I help beggers and one time I didn t and I was passing by and I had all this guilt and enmeshment. It totally comes from childhood, from families we had to feel obigated to share our toys, or our clothes without a feeling of self. I will get better. I am just noticing enmeshment in my personality, when in reality I am free. On the other hand can be that beggers are also manipulators. I live in a rich country and beggers here beg for drugs, not neccesarily for food. Waking up to society, and changing my own enmeshments from misunderstanding religion too.
Thanks, Michele. You look great! 🙋♀️
Michelle, I followed the links but am not sure where to ask questions. What time and zone are the live groups in? I am in Central European Time.
Hi So the meetings are on Tuesdays at 1:00 p.m. EDT/Fridays at 4:00 p.m. (for group coaching and/or EFT sessions and Sundays at 1:00 p.m. EDT for breathwork sessions
I wish i could join your membership, sadly it's too expensive for me 😞😐
Thank you
Thank you for this ❤️
How do you reconnect with self
Can I show my 12 year old son this video? so he can educate himself, his Mom is a evil manipulating narcissist, but I can't talk bad about her to him
I can understand where you're coming from - but I don't recommend showing him this information - one for legal reasons and two the more you try to prove what the other parent is the less the child sees it.... there are other ways - better ways to help your children!!!! That's just my personal opinion
@@FromSurvivingToThriving yes I understand I just worry about my son and his mental health..but, I'm not going to go down to her level she is just desperate because I was awarded 70/30 custody of my son, and she is just trying anything to change that, but I always said my actions are going to speak louder than words, and my son will see for him self
it is hard to hear this information
also please explain what is shapeshifting
Does the enmeshment only happen in childhood?
Is a covert narcissistic parent only capable of doing this? Is there a way this dynamic plays out where the parent doesnt know what they're doing?
Anytime I say I dont want something my mother would insist until I either took it or we had a fight. For my entire life. She tells me what I like or dont. She tells me how everything I want will go horribly wrong. When I told her how bad it made me feel she said it didnt and kept doing it even though I left her house in tears every time.When things do go wrong she gets to be the loving all powerful mother and I am her failure who needs her to survive. I tried to kill myself because she set up a situation to fail and she dragged me back to hell. Blamed me for everything that goes wrong in my relatives' lives even though its ridiculous. Silent treatment whenever I stood up for myself. Let my sister and family scapegoat and bait me and abused me when I fought back. Crippled my confidence so I couldn't leave and as a result my life is now terrible. Finally I had a big fight and left her. She threatened me if I didnt come back, I told her I rather die. We finally had a conversation about her treatment of me and she stopped every horrible thing she had done to me, but noone else, for decades. Then she told me she didnt like me as much now since she had stopped and was going to change her will. Still wants me to do all her work - refuses to ask my siblings-and be her captive audience though. Told me she would leave me nothing if I bought a house with her money left to me if she didnt like who I left it to. Despite knowing thanks to her I would be out in the street and have to kill myself if she disinherited me. I pray for her death but I will probably die before she does
Me ex seems to think this happened to me, boy is he wrong and an idiot. Lol🤣
Can enmeshment mean that you take on the narcissistic abusive ways and treat others badly as well as yourself because that's all you learned whilst at the same time not being allowed to be yourself?
To some degree, yes. It's called grandiosity. The narcissist regresses you to their childhood to form a trauma bond. Although you won't be as manipulative as they are, you adopt the same artificial approach to people through trauma bonding. You might be punishing yourself through grandiosity and not even know that you do so.
Narc parents contribute about 70℅ to BPD outcomes in their teen / adult children.
Bpd? What's bdp never heard of that. I've heard of borderline personality disorder tho
Sorry, Michele, but I'm too embarassed to get infront of a camera on Zoom and talk to others about this.
What you say is true. Is it possible to communicate your wisdom without overtly tying it to your personal experience? The experience gained on your journey can help others, but if you’re helping others, it’s not about you. Just saying.
You read me to filth girl
Michelle your videos are awesome, I'm in room 112 at the Ramada 🙂
Well, today is the day I will quit communicating with my dad. You checked all the boxes and I need to learn who I am at 40yrs old. Thank you🥲
Good luck! I go through the same. The narcissist isn't a real person. The real person died at about 5 years old. If you see him as real you will suffer.