You mention how Griffith attempts to choke Guts, but don’t mention how after Guts hugs him and cries, Griffith tenderly places his hands over Guts’ arms. Griffith is complex, he can love and HATE someone at the same time like any other human being. Many of his interactions are about power, but not all, framing him that way is diminishing his character. Many times he takes actions that would cost him his dream or ruin his plans, just to save Guts and Casca. When he initially helped Casca offering her his sword to save herself from assault, he didn’t need to do that, there was no gain in it for him at the time. Just another mouth to feed. He straight up tells Guts: “Do I really need a reason every time I stake my life to save yours?” after the battle with Zodd. That’s not the attitude of someone who’s *completely* power hungry. Griffith is angry with Guts because he felt abandoned. Yes, Griffith is extremely self-centered and felt ownership over Guts, but the events that come after Guts departure only make sense if Guts was more important to Griffith than his dream (the entire reason he’s so power-hungry). Griffith fucks his entire plan and everything that he worked for up, by having sex witch Charlotte and being sloppy about getting caught. All because he was distraught and wanted to distract himself about losing Guts…who at that point, he didn’t even need!
Certainly, not to mention Casca was almost a child back then, and a woman with no fighting skills, she would only slow them down. It pisses me off when people describe Griffith as being a sociopath or narcissist, reducing his extremely well-written character who is multifaceted to a single, "evil" being who only desires power.
> He act just like any bitter women would do after a break up yup, no other way to explain Grif's actions other than he is mad he got cuckolded by Caska
@@thatanimepfpguyi think it’s more talking about what griffith did with princess charlotte after guts left. you might also remember he was thinking of guts the entire time
Griffith has very childlike ideas of intimacy and love when he’s actually experiencing it and not mirroring it. He has never actually related to anyone, so it makes perfect sense that his love is built off the fact that he doesn’t feel superior to Guts, but someone that made him realize that he was alone in a room full of admirers. Guts leaving is such a big deal because he made Griffith realize he was “inferior”, because Guts’ way of making Griffith wear rose tinted glasses; this would be the moment to shatter his world. I get that it’s not exactly normal or healthy, but I really don’t think you considered the fact that you can still experience love, have a very warped sense of it, and be in the antisocial or psychopathic spectrum of personality disorders. Griffith being considered constantly superior because of his dedication to mirroring, memorizing, and ethic to hone his skills only goes to show that he would be more impulsive and childish when it comes to his true feelings. I think this makes the most sense when you consider that it’s never been mentioned that he’s had genuine experience with intimacy or true feelings, beyond his dream and himself, until Guts comes along
He literally can’t stop thinking of guts while in bed with charlotte. If he saw visions of like a crumbling dream and everyone made a visual appearance it would be more along the lines of Anxiety Impulse sex. But hes. Thinking of only guts. Now I’m no psychologist, but going to have sexual relations with someone INSTEAD of brooding alone or taking his rage out on someone is very telling. When guts left he could only think of the intimacy he sought , the intimacy he’d never get. And after the act he self harms. Because not only did he miss guts terribly, he knew his desires for guts lead him to his gravest mistake. I think Griffith was very in love with guts.
@@jimtc1000 his dream. He was just so determined to achieve his own Kingdom. Which by the way is very noble. Never once does he say he wants a slave kingdom, so we can assume it’s a fairly noble act to want a kingdom full of people he protects as the white falcon.
I hate Griffith so much... even after 3 decades I still have that hate in my heart. If he was black with horns and still acted the way he did you all wouldn't be saying he was childlike. He was a gaslighter. He gaslit Casca to believe she had a chance with him when he knew he never saw her as a woman. Only when he saw her with Guts he finally saw her. He gaslit Guts and the band of the falcon/hawk to think everyone was friends. They died and Griffith felt nothing. It broke my heart. The way he turned on the people who loved him most
@@jimtc1000 There was no intimacy with Gennon, he was a step in a stair that griffith had to climb, just an exchange, a fuck for money, a money to archieve his goals and finance his band. It's hard to tell exactly what Griffith was thinking in the act, but i think he was odd.. and still, just as he was in the dungeons, just waiting for the end.
In my opinion,Griffith is attracted to both Guts and Casca. But he behaves in a way that dehumanises his own self and others,so he avoids forming deep and healthy bonds with them,preferring to manipulate and use them,treating them like things to be used by him. He feels guts departure as a rejection and he is jealous that casca and guts love each other in a way no one will ever love him.
I don't think he's attracted to Casca though. Throughout Beserk he barely notices her and their interactions are merely of employer and employee. He did what he did to Casca as femto because he wanted Guts to suffer.
What Griffith feels for Guts is more complicated than simple romantic or fraternal love. But he did love him and he didn't just use him to achieve his dream, he literally admits (during the eclipse) that among the thousands of people he killed and fought with, Guts is the only one who makes him forget about his dream. It is obvious how depressed he was when Guts won the fight and left, just as any person who was dumped by the one they loved. Why else would he force himself on the princess on the same night Guts left if he didn't love him... not only to forget about Guts, but having sex with the princess is in Griffith's thoughts a way to punish Guts and make him feel the way he felt: Betrayed. And he was obviously only thinking about Guts while doing it with the princess. (waking up in tears, touching the scar guts left him that seemed to represent the pain he felt in his heart more than his body) When having sex with the princess, the calculating Griffith who only acts according to plan, for the first time, acted on a whim and ruined everything he had worked for his entire life it's like he thought: Now that I lost Guts, nothing matters anymore. This isn’t just some fraternal love it’s much more complicated than that. Later on, Griffith realized that not only did he lose Guts, but also lost sight of his dream when Guts was by his side, cause it was the journey he was having with Guts that mattered the most for him. That's why in my opinion the hate he has for Guts now is justified (Because of Guts he lost both Guts and his dream). But this hatred would have never been born if it wasn't preceded by intense love and trust. Even when he was being tortured for a year, in the depths of darkness and despair all he could think about was Guts. He says: “I don't feel anything, as if my body were floating through space, am I still sane? or have I lost it long ago? Still amidst this total emptiness, one thing remains radiant. His image alone like a bolt of lightning cutting through the dark arises vividly from within me again and again, pressing forward like a tsunami of hatred, fraternity, jealousy bitterness, futility, affection, longing. They all combine in a giant vortex that pulls my fading consciousness and holds it in place. The very cause that sealed me within this endless darkness is now the only thing that’s keeping me alive. Since when did he, a mere belonging begin to overwhelm me so completely? Within me now, with blinding pain, he shimmers brilliantly… Guts.” This is exactly what he feels for Guts.
but do you consider him selfish by confirming to the sacrifice? I believe he has a choice eventho we knew for a fact that the other god hands manipulated the situation like his guilt for example. The guilt he has been carrying for a long time. But the moment he saw Guts, is what made him finally sacrifice. I find that selfish and toxic in a way. I knew he has feelings, and i knew he was very hurt by him. And i knew he probably want to stop the pain. He lost everything when he left him, i feel like he is overflowing with resentment. Yet we all knew everything that has happened to him was his own fault, that he is a victim of his own feelings. He went from sacrificing his life every time Guts is in danger to him sacrificing Guts in the end. Tragic. I wonder what you think is on his mind when he saw Guts and said "only you made me forget my dream" yet he ended up sacrificing him. The way it was portrayed in the movie 2012 is quite sentimental, he doesnt sound angry. He even looks like he is smiling in the manga. Is he thinking if i cant have you, might as well die? i mean, thats kinda fcked up. He's so emotionally immature T^T
Griffith for sure. Hahaha I'm not so sure about guts tho. 😂 maybe most berserk audience don't want any romantic thing going bet them, only friendship which is a possibility too but I'm leaning more.towards Griffith being so gay for Guts hahaha
I get it though. Griffith and Guts are complex characters. And people have erroneously pointed to Sam and Frodo "seeming gay" when LOTR was put to the screen. They weren't, nor intended that way. But the short answer is yes, both ways.
This is semantics over how to define "love." Griffith's only concept of love might be possessive, abusive, and toxic, but it is still his version of love. The opposite of love is indifference, not the absence of strong negative emotion. The existence of the seven other emotions you listed is still a consequence of "love" despite how it may be a corrupted and distorted.
Yup. Griffith was/is gay and wasn't emotionally mature enough to know what love is and couldn't recognize that he was gay and had fallen in love with Guts. But as GUTS would say numerous times throughout the manga: "Homie Don't Play That!"
The seven emotions are actually the Love itself, but perceived by a man who never adressed his ego and emotions with honesty. (And of course have been suffer the hell on earth on his skin)
that make sense coz its the first time he ever felt this way and he is so emotionally immature. even casca knew it. the way he suppressed his feelings like guilt for example.
Here's a translated quote from the Memorial Edition director describing how he captured their relationship: "“admiration, hatred, friendship”… and “romantic feelings(恋愛感情)”" Yall BUGGIN. If Griffith was a woman, yall would call this an obvious ship. Stop the cap, yall wild.
I... think it's pretty obvious that he is, yes. "Do I really need a reason every time I put myself in harm's way for your sake?" is the most romantic line in the entire goddamn manga. Imagine if Guts were a girl-- with everything Griffith does and says, absolutely zero people would deny he was madly in love with him/her. It's frustrating that so many people will bend over backwards to deny this.
the problem is the fan base thinks griffith is evil. they dont get that the sacrifice needs someone they love to work. griffith couldnt sacrifice a random beggar off the streets to become a godhand.
Exactly, Griffith was a flawed but clearly not evil guy, and he was tricked/convinced in the moment of th eclipse to give in to his selfish side, and then he became evil, in no small part because his other emotions are literally artificially frozen. He clearly did alot wrong, but saying hes just always been evil is stupid@@mithos789
@@cpt7752 you are right that defending a friend isnt necessarily romantic but there is weird subtext to their dynamic imo. i mean, their first interaction starts with griffith saying he wants him, guts asking griffith if he's gay, griffith not denying/answering and dodging the question, and then guts offering griffith 'my sword or my ass' if he loses in their duel. a lot of so called 'subtext' in other stories IS just male authors writing strong friendships that accidentally look gay, but guts and griffith have me raising my brows a bit, esp when miura admitted he inspired griffith off his gay friends and used bl manga like kaze to ki no uta as inspo for golden age arc
in the first arch of berserks movie when Griffith said "if i win this fight i can have what I want from you"? and guts replied "yes, even my ass" lets me knew they both were in denial
I strongly disagree I do think Griffith loved guts don’t get me wrong I don’t think he necessarily wanted to sleep with him but I think he loved him more than a friend more like a possessive abusive spouse he strongly hated that guts left him and he could do nothing about it he felt powerless and in the end he wanted guts to feel the same way
I dont think Griffith knows what true love is & i dont think Griffith knew he was gay, or at least hadn't accepted it. Griffith was clearly in love with GUTS.
I think Griffith is a much more complicated character than your describing here. Berserk isn’t just some gore fest the writing goes much deeper than that and you have to look at the subtext of what he’s saying not just take his words at face value. He says that he does not care about his men but his actions demonstrate a deep care for the people that follow him, especially Guts. His speech to Charlotte about only seeing those who had their own dreams as equal actually reveals that Griffith feels immense guilt for what he views as himself trampling on the dreams of his followers to achieve his own goals. It’s not that he doesn’t care or only cares about power but rather that he can’t allow himself to care too deeply or get to close because if he does the weight of the sacrifices that so many people both living and dead have made for his sake would crush him. He can’t allow himself to falter after coming this far because that would be betraying all the people who sacrificed so much for his dream already. I think it’s very clear that Guts and Griffith love each other. There are valid arguments for interpreting this love as either romantic or platonic but you can’t deny that it definitely exists. When Guts leaves it affects Griffith so strongly that he forgets about his dream for a time and looses literally everything. He doesn’t bring about the eclipse because he still desperately wants power, he does it because he comes to the devastating realization that he finally did the one thing he could never allow himself to do, betray the people whose dreams he stepped on, and because the god hand are manipulating him. In that moment he believes that he has to sacrifice his remaining followers and become a monster to achieve his dream, because that’s the only way he can make up for throwing away what he had achieved. As long as he keeps working toward that goal, all the sacrifices no matter how devastating will have been worth it. To say that Griffith only loved power is a huge disservice to an incredibly complicated and well written character.
Romantic “love” really isn’t something I think he understands. He loved guts, sure in a way. Its kinda like your super smart friend that talks down to you. He thinks of you only as far as you can be entertaining or on what you can do for him. When he beat him for the first time and proved himself to not be a tool, it broke Griffith. As I said in a precious comment the relationships are very layered, and I think Griffith, if he can understand any love is superseded for is want of power.
The only Denial in this video is the Narrator. People forget the scene in the Eclipse where Griffy and Guts where both rising in the Hand where broken Griffith leaped to Guts so Guts could hold his arm and not fall. Again this was the BROKEN Griffith who had nothing to gain on letting Guts fall somehow finding the strength and care to not let Guts die. THATS not something most people can’t do / wouldn’t do in that situation unless they’re was More than specific friendship. Plus let’s not forget that in order for a Sacrifice to Mean anything it has to be somebody you Love. And I’ve Never believed Griff loved the BoH enough. It was Guts, Guts specifically was the “Love” Griffith Sacrificed. Hence the “you’re the only one who made Me forget My Dream” scene. A Sacrifice CAN NOT work without LOVE.
sacrifice doesn’t have to be someone you love, just means it would change you a lot if you lost / sacrificed that person (or thing technically). though i do think griffith had romantic feelings for guts
Griffith was obviously in love with guts. This video has me even more convinced of that... In fact I think this video has proven to me every single person who's ever argued against this obvious love, has simply never actually lived through a "scorned lover" scenario... Or didn't recognize their feelings when they did. 😜
I don’t know in a romantic way but in order to become a godhand you had sacrifice someone you love, which clearly was guts. The band was just collateral damage.
I say yes, the truest definition of falling in love, is to disregard all sense of logic in dealing with someone. So If you read devil man, the ending to violence jack and devil man lady, you see the parallels between the two main characters is undeniable 💯.
What are you talking about? He does show emotion on the hill of swords, as he leaves we see the “thump” of his heart in one of the last panels as he leaves. Depicting that he did feel something. And I think you’re wrong, I think he does love Guts, from the very moment he sees Guts he treats him as someone special, at that point it had nothing to do with control. And your proof at the end proves nothing, at that point he hated Guts for leaving him. Griffith was always going to sacrifice everyone, because living his life as a cripple was something he’d never do. So stopping to think what it’s going to do to Guts doesn’t mean he doesn’t love him. As we all know the people who you hate the most can be someone you once loved. Go to any divorce court case.
I always envisioned Griffith as having had a love for Guts, but always a narcissistic, controlling kind Guts chooses to leave for himself and Griffith's reaction is to not only challenge him but also decide possibly killing him is preferable to the guy actually fully leaving
There's also the fact that when Griffith sees Guts and Casca hug when he was bandaged up he left to off himself and then ended up starting the whole eclipse. that's when I thought he had feelings for guts. he forgot his dream for a bit with guts.
You listed several arguments to "prove" that they are "just good friends", but each time you did I could only ask, "how is this not romantic love (in a twisted way or not)?"
"It's a resounding NO, Griffith only loves himself, and the fact that he started caring about someone else literally made him lose his mind" What made Griffith "started to caring about someone else"? A: L O V E
I geuninely don't understand HOW this is even a question lmao. He definitely was. I think the bigger question is, why does it matter to people? It takes away nothing from the story whatsoever. People take these things so personally when they aren't even that deep. 💀 They had a thing for each other 100%. Why do people get so pressed over it? lol. (Good vid btw!!)
@@mithos789 lol I'm talking about the homosexuality of it. I'm not saying the love itself didn't matter, I'm saying that the love being between two guys shouldn't matter.
If griffith didnt get tortured, would he have become a man who could sacrifice his comrades? He seems to blame Guts for what happened, when really it was all his fault.. i just wonder if Femto is who Griffith was all along, or if the torture drove him insane and that insane mind is what Femto is.. they never really explain the change in personality after ascending to demonhood.
"they never really explain the change in personality after ascending to demonhood." i mean they did show. once you sacrifice, they stripped away his humanity. during the transformation, you can see he doesnt feel anymore. so femto is griffith with no humanity. im not sure about neo-Griffith tho. the ceremony wasnt complete coz Guts escaped
@@sjkclau IDK what you mean by humanity, no two humans are alike or agree on morality or take the same actions in various situations. There are saints and demons in the world, all human. Regardless, if they take away a part of griffith, his personality, his morality, his capacty to think, reason, empathize etc, then it is no longer the same Griffith as before, it is a being created from another being.
@@kenhammscousin4716 that's the point. It's not the same Griffith as before 😂 coz he transformed. He become boring ass. You can read it again if you like
@@sjkclau I suppose we agree, tho I don't think it was "shown" really, not spelled out... it raises the question of, is Griffith responsible for Femtos actions, and should Guts hate Griffith because the bad things came from griffith being manipulated. The clear answer would be if Griffith with free will and sound mind made the choice to sacrifice... otherwise he is innocent
it was always Clear to me that he is in love with the mighty Black Swordsman it does not matter how By-sexual Griffith tries to be.. but who cannot love our Gutsu? damn u to hell Griffith
> who cannot love our Gutsu? this is another theme we will see. Berserk turning from a NTR story to a Harem story. The evidence is already there with a literal God Slan already starting to fall for Guts. I'm pretty sure even Charlotte will be Guts' woman before the story is finished.
Griffith fell in love with Guts💯. When guys left he became a scorned lover. I firmly believe if guts would have left but stayed in contact with Griffith it would have went better for the two. It's the fact that guys left with out any indication of coming back is what drove Griffith over the edge and broke his heart. That also explains why he did what he did with casca in the end. He peeped that guts fell in love with casca, so he violated her in front of guts in order to ensure that guts will to the end be obsessed with him and now for ever chase him. This was beyond a genius telling of a love story between two people 💯. Side note I believe guts fell in love with him before Griffith asked him to assassinate the Duke. When guys heard Griffiths telling of what a friend means to him, gutts became heart broken and embittered towards Griffith. Casca realized this and knew of Griffiths leanings towards other men which fueled her jealousy towards gutts preferential treatment towards gutts. So all in all berserk in the golden age ark is just a genius love triangle 💯.
I think i read Berserk 5 times now, from tip to top, and it's a Yes for me. Golden age makes INCREDIBLE perfect sense, when you read it knowing that it's a twisted love history, between two mens who have never adressed their feelings for each other, or to anyone, that ends in a visceral,dark,gore,hopeless way that only Berserk can deliver. The message is there in every way, the gazing, the eyelooks, the bath scene, and many more, in fact, knowing that Guts loved Griffith romantically, makes his confusion after the ceremony, even more brutal and heartbreaking.
@@jimtc1000 i use to think like that, but Guts really looked up to Griffith in such ways, that he was willing to leave everything behind, all his friends and achievements, just to live a life worth of a Griffiths friendship. That's love right there. Unresolved love.
@@grimmjow480 lol Guts literally said to Griffith when Griffith first beat him in a duel " make me your soldier you butt buddy or whatever" and Guts left the Hawks cause he thought Griffith's feeling towards Guts mattered to him that much, so i do agree with you, if this story was more centered about romance and not tragedy/horror they wouldve been a perfect couple
@@deadlyfemboy4289 guts did leave the hawks for griffith true but not in a romantic way at all, remember guts just wanted to be griffith equal to be considered his (best friend) guts was in love with casca
Guts definitely loved Griffith but it wasn’t romantic especially considering Casca. For Guts it amounted to deep platonic intimacy. Griffith tho is a different story of course. He had found his soul mate. Too bad it was set up for failure and he was blind to it until it was too late.
I think their relationship is complex but at the same time pretty straightforward. I think it’s pretty easy to tell that they’re pretty infatuated by one another. They find each other extremely interesting. And a lot of the times infatuation can be mistaken for genuine romance but it’s not.
It is evident that Griffith has feelings for Guts (either romantically or deep brotherly love) 1. Even Casca knew it. Read the first time Casca and Guts fell into the cliff. 2. it was Guts who made him forget about his dream. Griffith throughout his existence all that matters to him was his dream. But that changed when Guts came into his life. He was distracted. He said so himself, "only you made me forget about my dream" 3. He put his life on the line twice just to save Guts. If his dream is his top priority, why bother saving Guts? Esp their fight with Zodd, it's a very risky battle and it's their first time to see a monster. That's why Guts questioned him why he need to save him. Which lead us to "Do I need a reason to" scene which was drawn romantic AF. they locked eyes and Guts kinda looks flustered. 4. And obv, the scene in the prison. "How long ago did someone I was supposed to have in hand...instead gain such a strong hold on me?" "When it comes to him I can't keep my equilibrium" I'm not saying that his love is romantic becoz he is so emotionally immature to understand his feelings. And it wasnt confirmed. I'm just saying that it's worded or drawn romantic AF that personally id lean towards it being romantic. It can be platonic, it can be romantic. But feelings are feelings and for sure he has feelings for Guts.
Pretty sure Bazuso was not in the Band of the Hawk. The fact that Corkus laments not being the one to kill him himself proves that. Bazuso was just another mercenary or soldier fighting on the same side as the Band at that particular battle.
Is very lame that ppl have doubts about griffith's feelings when they are obvious. No one would do what he did to someone that is just a friend. It was more than that.
Yeah, romantic love is definitely never associated with sorrow, regret, jealousy, emptiness, or hunger…. it’s never conflicted or toxic. Consequently, that’s why the new Tswift album is called “The Very Happy Poets Department”
@@obaolade1232this time the black haired character betrayed the white haired character. if guts wasnt autistic he could clearly see griffith loved and respected him. he was just macking on a floosy.
Okay lets not forget that Griffith thinking about Guts when he had s*x with Princess Charlotte and the way he raped Casca , its beyond me that not only trying Gut's skin but more like he tried show him that he likes Guts. So yeah messed up. So to your video although I gave you the like but you're bit wrong on this.
He was definitely attracted to Guts. When Guts asked,”Why do you keep helping me, when I’m in trouble?”. Pretty creepy and gay. But Guts is right for asking. 😂
You're making grand assumptions about the video makers intentions . You're obviously someone who is projecting their own circumstances on the story . 😂
@@yallaintit you said these "alpha-wannabes are so OBSESSED WITH DENYING THE OBVIOUS" the creator is refuting the point your making that Griffith is in love with guts so your lumping him in with that technically . So yeah you are talking about the video maker don't try to reel it back .
@jim tc Don't tell me who I'M talking about, you clown. 💀 If somebody wants to deny that they liked each other, then that's fine. I think it's a total BS take on the story, but people will always have their own interpretations and that's cool w me. But then there's the alpha wannabes that deny their connection for the sole purpose of trying to maintain a "manly/epic/women 🦅😎🔫" image. I never claimed the video creator was one of those jerks. 💀 I'm talking to the guys that fall into the second category, not the first (the guy in the video). Goofy.
well my opinion is on this question . Is Griffith in love with Guts ? and my answer is that no, but Does Griffith lusts over Guts ? that i have to say maybe. In the movie 1 Griffith said: I want you and then Guts said: You want my body in that way? in that question Griffith was silent he didn`t said no , but he didn`t said yes either. in other words he did not confirmed or denied either. So I read it that " Not now , but when i have my kindom maybe" so did Griffith loved Guts no . did Griffith lusted Guts yes. remember that Romantic love and Lust is completley different things.
I don't think it's love, obsession maybe. Griffith looks at everything and everyone as possessions and Guts was his prize. I believe he wanted Guts physically and he couldn't handle anything around him not following him blindly once he decided to leave. That's when he lost it. Like a real life violent relationship, you may think you love a person you abuse but you can't.
Indeed. Griffith considered the Band of the Hawk nothing more than a tool yet Guts was special, he never idolized him or kissed his ass all the time. When he left Griffith lost control of his puppet so his entire character crumbled.
You trippin. Of all the "cases" you make for different theories this was your weakest. All the emotions Grif was feeling while down bad was the same stuff you feel for that chick who left you. Grif was basically all of us, effed up, drunk and feeling all sorts of crazy ish in some dirty apartment. If you can't relate to that then let this be your first and final romantic themed video.
I see the point here but it’s simply wrong I mean when Griffith was reborn and went to see guts to make sure he has no emotion towards him (that being romantic or platonic whatever) he most definitely DID feel emotion towards him imo? He just lied and it’s made obvious to me bc mirua makes sure it’s noticeable that Griffiths heart was pounding and that after he thinks to himself the emotion he felt was from caskas baby bc he used it to be reborn (wether his emotion was restored from the baby or not idk) but my point is it shows he had and still has some type of emotion for guts
No weird stuff, but when Guts kill Griffith, I hope Griffith tells Guts that he loves him when he reverts back to his humanity before his death and Guts shed a single tear. Because although we all hate Griffith, him and Guts were like brothers at one point.
There's a certain section of the Berserk fandom that will bend over backwards trying to explain why there's nothing romantic/sexual about the relationship Griffith has with Guts. It's actually really pathetic. What's the matter guys? Do you think reading a manga with a gay character is going to magically turn you gay? Grow up.
no i entirely agree, this whole video was basically “yes griffith shows every symptom of love towards guts but he isn’t actually romantically in love with him”, idk why they believe that just because griffith is a bad person that he isn’t capable of loving someone in his own way, is it toxic? yes but is it still love? also yes
@zombiepiss🧟💤 I think it's because some guys can't understand the concept of a character who is incredibly powerful, dominant, complex, respected by everyone he meets, AND gay/bi/pan/whatever. It just doesn't compute for them. They are only comfortable with gay characters if they are off to the side, supporting the main character, and barely ever mention their sexuality. OR they might also be cool with a gay female character who is really sexy and gets frisky with other women in front of us.
Griffith absolutely loved Guts. It wasn’t healthy, well expressed or something he wanted, but he was obsessively down bad. C’mon now. Miura is an incredible writer, the homoeroticism is intentional.
Griffith so obviously loved Guts everything he did in the end was from that feeling of love, its because he loved him that he felt hate towards him as well much like how others feel if someone they loved leaves them or emotionally hurts them. Griffith thought Guts abandoned him and he did not know how to communicate those feelings in a healthy way especially after his torture where he couldn't even freaking speak. I feel so many deny it because he's a guy if Griffith was a girl or Guts was a girl I think everyone would see it more clearly. Griffith is pretty much a yandere.
Griffith was gender-fluid asf and guts is a suprisingly intimate fellow underneath all that badassery and trauma so I can see how alot of people mis-interpret it as such. I genuinely think it was a bromance and Griffith was a super possessive sociopath with terrible coping mechanisms.
I think this video misses the mark. Sure, ultimately he chooses his dream over love, but there is still love, thats why he has this internal conflict about not understanding why he cares about Guts as much as his dream. Also saying he cares for no one, not even the people who die in battle for him is really bad. I get that Griffith isnt perfect and becomes straight up evil, but we cant act like he has no empathy when he literally claws into his own flesh out of guilt when thinking about those who die for him.
And after hearing all this i say griffith love guts 3 reasons he got caught having sex with the princess because he wanted to forget about guts but even when he was having sex with her was still thinking about guts😂and i actually was waiting for griffith to call princess charlotte guts😂second bro couldn't stop blaming guts for everything guts did nothing wrong people like to say griffith did nothing wrong instead of saying guts did nothing wrong and guts leaving is still not guts fault to prove this in the anime and manga griffith said these same words to princess charlotte "a friend to me would have a dream of their own and overcome mine and go along to fullfill their own" and when guts did he ended up backstabbing guts 3rd say what you want about the whole you are mine now guts but that is not saying I'm not gay that sounds gay as hell not to mention that one episode where he was naked and he played water war with guts naked and when i mean naked i don't mean half clothes naked i mean that mf was naked😂😂
People are really in denial no? Just because Griffith doesn't straight up said that he loves Guts "directly", romantically or sexually, doesn't mean that he doesn't. It's how a person reacts and feels for someone, no need for direct "I love yous". Majority of those in denials are obviously men, trying to justify Griffith's straightness... Many people here are so dense. Griffith has never been in love before... until Guts. And he doesn't know how to actually channel those feelings properly, specially when it was rejected, by the only person he fells for. So just like many men reacts to rejection, they can be very revengefully toxic. I really want to add that since Berserk is a Japanese manga, you should all be aware that Japanese are very subtle with it comes to expression of romance. They are not grandeur and bold unlike most in the world. Like how they use the expression "The moon is beautiful tonight" as a more meaningful instead of saying a direct "I love you".
I am a homosexual guy and i acknowledge for you its a homosexual love going on because when i am with a love with a guy and he is straight i act the same as grefith and in one episode Griffith sleeped with an old man for mony but he prefer man his same age its clear he is a gay pokerface guy and playboy that grifth but he want guts for him I don't know why he doesn't say it directly to him that he loves him and want to make up with him maybe because that will stop in has ambition way.
Griffith was definitely not in love with Guts. The people who think otherwise lack a full, experienced understanding of what it means to have a friend, which is to say they probably never had one. I also think the people who push the romantic angle are those who lack the ability to think beyond romance. I had a best friend in high school, and we always hung out, goofed off, joked around, and a bunch of retards accused us of being gay for each other. We'd both ways laugh it off, with me looking at them like they were retarded, which they were. I had another friend who believes that those who see romantic relationships in two male best friends do nothing but devalue the frienship, which I 100% agree with. I think reducing male bonding to a manifestation of sexual urges is a symptom of ignorance, shallowness, and a general lack of ability to relate to other people through a lens that does not involve their genitalia.
I'm not trying to disregard your statement but was your friendship with this person as intense as Guts and Griffith's ? even able to surpass the feelings and affection that you can develop to someone you are sexually attracted to/become your wife? I think the friendship argument works if people can accept that the love of your life can be your best friend and I think for a lot of people their the love of their lives is always someone they are sexually attracted. So they are confused with Guts and Griffith's relationship. but for some people it can actually be their best friend that they may not have sexual attraction for...but this argument only works if you believe friendship can surpass a romantic partner.
The denial is real with this one 💀 There are plenty of shows that accurately depict male friendships, and this is not one of them because it was more than a friendship. The only argument I'd agree with is saying that Griffith was way too emotionally immature to have feelings of "love" that he could understand. Other than that, nah. There's a stack of evidence to prove they liked each other, and yall just wanna cling to your "manliness." 🤓 lmaooo
Insulting and making assumptions about people who might disagree with you doesn't make your argument stronger lmao. They so clearly had a thing for each other.
One story has homoerotic undertones = "everything has to be gay." 🤓 Miura used BL manga to inspire his work 😭 and yeah, thinking of your homies while railing a girl and naked water fights are so hetero. And the creator of the movies mentioning how he needed to portray their "romantic feelings" was just being a lil silly. 💀
Most of it makes sense. Though, Griffith statement with his actions come contradictory to each other. Not as a writting plot, but on contrary, as there are 2 persons under that skin. (Pun not intended). Like Griffith's claiming he has no remorse for his fallen soldiers, though he get nailed by a old man just to advance with fewer causalities. Claims to be a strategic cation when he claw his own skin n flesh on pure self disgust and other feelings. More like there's another person burried inside him, but he unconsciously suppress it. THAT was BEFORE meeting Guts. So, Griffith forgetting his dream only because of Guts still does not stick to me. The guy is way more that shows. Now knowing that he will share a body with Guts chlid way in the future is insane. But no, there was not a romantic feeling. To end the argument, on Griffith's rescue, twas a part when Casca feelings on him was meant to make Guts feel jealous. Instead he was thinking how HE was the one that still couldn't let go of Griffith (then thought was interrupted cause Miura didn't want to give more on that relation). If you may have yor doubts on Griffith, you cannot have any doubts on Guts that was no romantic feeling, but frendship, loyalty, respect. And apparently something more, that the author intentionally won't let out until the end. As might be a key to the endgame. If you think I am getting somewhere, I can add to my mumbling
It’s the Band of the Hawk! You’re still destroying my brain! Seriously though I do love the content, but it’s driving me mad when you say band of the falcon
Griffith rapes Casca because he doesn't want to kill Guts. He rapes Casca in order to destroy Guts so that he can finish the rituals without losing the man he loves. He may have another plan in his head to have Guts again. Griffith still loves Guts after all.
He doesn't have to show who is in control at the moment with all the power he just receives. It is just the ritual which demands a sacrify. The ritual is what he has to focus on. Showing who has the upper hand is not the the focus of the ritual. After Guts is reborn, the first thing he does is going back to see he still has feeling for him which is the reason he lost everything. Right before the ritual, he realizes that out of thousands, Guts is the one made him forget his dream or in Casca's words he can't continue without Guts. This is one of the most romantic line ever in manga but ppl would still deny his love just because Guts is considered to be evil.
Yes and No. Griffith would certinly say that is the case when asked. But when he losses the fight to Guts and Guts leaves Griffith brakes down. He would not do that over a tool. It happens because not only does Guts show he has his won dreams by demanding to leave. (and thus become in the eyes of Griffith a friend and eqaul in his on words) But he overpowers him whit ease and that hurts him even more. Griffith might not love Guts but Guts certainly means more to him then just a means to an end.
You mention how Griffith attempts to choke Guts, but don’t mention how after Guts hugs him and cries, Griffith tenderly places his hands over Guts’ arms. Griffith is complex, he can love and HATE someone at the same time like any other human being. Many of his interactions are about power, but not all, framing him that way is diminishing his character. Many times he takes actions that would cost him his dream or ruin his plans, just to save Guts and Casca. When he initially helped Casca offering her his sword to save herself from assault, he didn’t need to do that, there was no gain in it for him at the time. Just another mouth to feed.
He straight up tells Guts: “Do I really need a reason every time I stake my life to save yours?” after the battle with Zodd. That’s not the attitude of someone who’s *completely* power hungry.
Griffith is angry with Guts because he felt abandoned. Yes, Griffith is extremely self-centered and felt ownership over Guts, but the events that come after Guts departure only make sense if Guts was more important to Griffith than his dream (the entire reason he’s so power-hungry). Griffith fucks his entire plan and everything that he worked for up, by having sex witch Charlotte and being sloppy about getting caught. All because he was distraught and wanted to distract himself about losing Guts…who at that point, he didn’t even need!
Certainly, not to mention Casca was almost a child back then, and a woman with no fighting skills, she would only slow them down. It pisses me off when people describe Griffith as being a sociopath or narcissist, reducing his extremely well-written character who is multifaceted to a single, "evil" being who only desires power.
@@gabrielhawk well he is evil
@@extrakt1559 He is not.
@@extrakt1559he maybe evil but not JUST that. His character shouldn't just be reduced to such a one dimensional word like that
I want to bring it back to your first line and say... You will never know hate until it's for someone you've loved. 😅
Bro love guys. He act just like any bitter women would do after a break up. His love is toxic but it’s still love
> He act just like any bitter women would do after a break up
yup, no other way to explain Grif's actions other than he is mad he got cuckolded by Caska
@@thatanimepfpguyi think it’s more talking about what griffith did with princess charlotte after guts left. you might also remember he was thinking of guts the entire time
I definitely thought the same shit 😅😅😅
yeah man when i have sex with a girl i think of my bestie
Hey as a woman, I've never been heartbroken and then proceeded to grape another woman idk what this means lmfao
Griffith has very childlike ideas of intimacy and love when he’s actually experiencing it and not mirroring it. He has never actually related to anyone, so it makes perfect sense that his love is built off the fact that he doesn’t feel superior to Guts, but someone that made him realize that he was alone in a room full of admirers. Guts leaving is such a big deal because he made Griffith realize he was “inferior”, because Guts’ way of making Griffith wear rose tinted glasses; this would be the moment to shatter his world. I get that it’s not exactly normal or healthy, but I really don’t think you considered the fact that you can still experience love, have a very warped sense of it, and be in the antisocial or psychopathic spectrum of personality disorders. Griffith being considered constantly superior because of his dedication to mirroring, memorizing, and ethic to hone his skills only goes to show that he would be more impulsive and childish when it comes to his true feelings. I think this makes the most sense when you consider that it’s never been mentioned that he’s had genuine experience with intimacy or true feelings, beyond his dream and himself, until Guts comes along
He literally can’t stop thinking of guts while in bed with charlotte. If he saw visions of like a crumbling dream and everyone made a visual appearance it would be more along the lines of Anxiety Impulse sex. But hes. Thinking of only guts. Now I’m no psychologist, but going to have sexual relations with someone INSTEAD of brooding alone or taking his rage out on someone is very telling. When guts left he could only think of the intimacy he sought , the intimacy he’d never get. And after the act he self harms. Because not only did he miss guts terribly, he knew his desires for guts lead him to his gravest mistake. I think Griffith was very in love with guts.
@@anjamari4670 who do you think he was thinking of when with Gennon?
@@jimtc1000 his dream. He was just so determined to achieve his own Kingdom. Which by the way is very noble. Never once does he say he wants a slave kingdom, so we can assume it’s a fairly noble act to want a kingdom full of people he protects as the white falcon.
I hate Griffith so much... even after 3 decades I still have that hate in my heart. If he was black with horns and still acted the way he did you all wouldn't be saying he was childlike. He was a gaslighter.
He gaslit Casca to believe she had a chance with him when he knew he never saw her as a woman. Only when he saw her with Guts he finally saw her.
He gaslit Guts and the band of the falcon/hawk to think everyone was friends. They died and Griffith felt nothing.
It broke my heart. The way he turned on the people who loved him most
@@jimtc1000 There was no intimacy with Gennon, he was a step in a stair that griffith had to climb, just an exchange, a fuck for money, a money to archieve his goals and finance his band. It's hard to tell exactly what Griffith was thinking in the act, but i think he was odd.. and still, just as he was in the dungeons, just waiting for the end.
In my opinion,Griffith is attracted to both Guts and Casca.
But he behaves in a way that dehumanises his own self and others,so he avoids forming deep and healthy bonds with them,preferring to manipulate and use them,treating them like things to be used by him.
He feels guts departure as a rejection and he is jealous that casca and guts love each other in a way no one will ever love him.
Yes, this 100%
Love that perspective
I don't think he's attracted to Casca though. Throughout Beserk he barely notices her and their interactions are merely of employer and employee.
He did what he did to Casca as femto because he wanted Guts to suffer.
@@MavihsLHIndeed. He protected Casca during the sword of hills fight only because the Child was inside of him.
I've said since I was like 14 that Guts and Griffith were both bi. It's abundantly clear he's enraptured with both of them.
What Griffith feels for Guts is more complicated than simple romantic or fraternal love.
But he did love him and he didn't just use him to achieve his dream, he literally admits (during the eclipse) that among the thousands of people he killed and fought with, Guts is the only one who makes him forget about his dream. It is obvious how depressed he was when Guts won the fight and left, just as any person who was dumped by the one they loved. Why else would he force himself on the princess on the same night Guts left if he didn't love him... not only to forget about Guts, but having sex with the princess is in Griffith's thoughts a way to punish Guts and make him feel the way he felt: Betrayed. And he was obviously only thinking about Guts while doing it with the princess. (waking up in tears, touching the scar guts left him that seemed to represent the pain he felt in his heart more than his body) When having sex with the princess, the calculating Griffith who only acts according to plan, for the first time, acted on a whim and ruined everything he had worked for his entire life it's like he thought: Now that I lost Guts, nothing matters anymore.
This isn’t just some fraternal love it’s much more complicated than that.
Later on, Griffith realized that not only did he lose Guts, but also lost sight of his dream when Guts was by his side, cause it was the journey he was having with Guts that mattered the most for him. That's why in my opinion the hate he has for Guts now is justified (Because of Guts he lost both Guts and his dream). But this hatred would have never been born if it wasn't preceded by intense love and trust.
Even when he was being tortured for a year, in the depths of darkness and despair all he could think about was Guts. He says: “I don't feel anything, as if my body were floating through space, am I still sane? or have I lost it long ago? Still amidst this total emptiness, one thing remains radiant. His image alone like a bolt of lightning cutting through the dark arises vividly from within me again and again, pressing forward like a tsunami of hatred, fraternity, jealousy bitterness, futility, affection, longing. They all combine in a giant vortex that pulls my fading consciousness and holds it in place. The very cause that sealed me within this endless darkness is now the only thing that’s keeping me alive. Since when did he, a mere belonging begin to overwhelm me so completely? Within me now, with blinding pain, he shimmers brilliantly… Guts.”
This is exactly what he feels for Guts.
Best response
but do you consider him selfish by confirming to the sacrifice? I believe he has a choice eventho we knew for a fact that the other god hands manipulated the situation like his guilt for example. The guilt he has been carrying for a long time. But the moment he saw Guts, is what made him finally sacrifice. I find that selfish and toxic in a way. I knew he has feelings, and i knew he was very hurt by him. And i knew he probably want to stop the pain. He lost everything when he left him, i feel like he is overflowing with resentment. Yet we all knew everything that has happened to him was his own fault, that he is a victim of his own feelings. He went from sacrificing his life every time Guts is in danger to him sacrificing Guts in the end. Tragic.
I wonder what you think is on his mind when he saw Guts and said "only you made me forget my dream" yet he ended up sacrificing him. The way it was portrayed in the movie 2012 is quite sentimental, he doesnt sound angry. He even looks like he is smiling in the manga. Is he thinking if i cant have you, might as well die? i mean, thats kinda fcked up. He's so emotionally immature T^T
I love watching Berserk fans do Olympic level gymnastics to deny that they were so down bad for each other 😭😭😭😭
for real
Griffith for sure. Hahaha I'm not so sure about guts tho. 😂 maybe most berserk audience don't want any romantic thing going bet them, only friendship which is a possibility too but I'm leaning more.towards Griffith being so gay for Guts hahaha
I get it though.
Griffith and Guts are complex characters.
And people have erroneously pointed to Sam and Frodo "seeming gay" when LOTR was put to the screen. They weren't, nor intended that way.
But the short answer is yes, both ways.
This is semantics over how to define "love." Griffith's only concept of love might be possessive, abusive, and toxic, but it is still his version of love. The opposite of love is indifference, not the absence of strong negative emotion. The existence of the seven other emotions you listed is still a consequence of "love" despite how it may be a corrupted and distorted.
Yup. Griffith was/is gay and wasn't emotionally mature enough to know what love is and couldn't recognize that he was gay and had fallen in love with Guts.
But as GUTS would say numerous times throughout the manga:
"Homie Don't Play That!"
The seven emotions are actually the Love itself, but perceived by a man who never adressed his ego and emotions with honesty. (And of course have been suffer the hell on earth on his skin)
@@benparrish672 nah I think he’s bi
Exactly!
that make sense coz its the first time he ever felt this way and he is so emotionally immature. even casca knew it. the way he suppressed his feelings like guilt for example.
Here's a translated quote from the Memorial Edition director describing how he captured their relationship:
"“admiration, hatred, friendship”… and “romantic feelings(恋愛感情)”"
Yall BUGGIN. If Griffith was a woman, yall would call this an obvious ship. Stop the cap, yall wild.
Yes. Griffith was in love with Guts. Guy is a sociopath.
Yes. Yes he is
I concur.
I don't think Griffith had accepted the fact that he was gay.
@@benparrish672 exactly
@@benparrish672 that’s why he killed everyone
Fuck no, gay fantasy
I... think it's pretty obvious that he is, yes. "Do I really need a reason every time I put myself in harm's way for your sake?" is the most romantic line in the entire goddamn manga. Imagine if Guts were a girl-- with everything Griffith does and says, absolutely zero people would deny he was madly in love with him/her. It's frustrating that so many people will bend over backwards to deny this.
the problem is the fan base thinks griffith is evil. they dont get that the sacrifice needs someone they love to work. griffith couldnt sacrifice a random beggar off the streets to become a godhand.
@@mithos789agree bc they basically killed for a living so simply killing another stranger would not have worked for the godhand i assume
Exactly, Griffith was a flawed but clearly not evil guy, and he was tricked/convinced in the moment of th eclipse to give in to his selfish side, and then he became evil, in no small part because his other emotions are literally artificially frozen.
He clearly did alot wrong, but saying hes just always been evil is stupid@@mithos789
@@cpt7752 you are right that defending a friend isnt necessarily romantic but there is weird subtext to their dynamic imo. i mean, their first interaction starts with griffith saying he wants him, guts asking griffith if he's gay, griffith not denying/answering and dodging the question, and then guts offering griffith 'my sword or my ass' if he loses in their duel. a lot of so called 'subtext' in other stories IS just male authors writing strong friendships that accidentally look gay, but guts and griffith have me raising my brows a bit, esp when miura admitted he inspired griffith off his gay friends and used bl manga like kaze to ki no uta as inspo for golden age arc
Not really
in the first arch of berserks movie when Griffith said "if i win this fight i can have what I want from you"? and guts replied "yes, even my ass" lets me knew they both were in denial
Even Griffith smiles with satisfaction. (Pretty sure Guts said the ass line cause he was confident he could beat Griffith using his brutal force)
Literally one of the most ragingly closeted bisexual mangas I have ever read.
I strongly disagree I do think Griffith loved guts don’t get me wrong I don’t think he necessarily wanted to sleep with him but I think he loved him more than a friend more like a possessive abusive spouse he strongly hated that guts left him and he could do nothing about it he felt powerless and in the end he wanted guts to feel the same way
I dont think Griffith knows what true love is & i dont think Griffith knew he was gay, or at least hadn't accepted it. Griffith was clearly in love with GUTS.
no gay man bangs a princess like griffith did
Griffith does
@@renatoarauz7784he did while only thinking of GUTS. Dude was 100% only thinking about his man in the act.
I think Griffith is a much more complicated character than your describing here. Berserk isn’t just some gore fest the writing goes much deeper than that and you have to look at the subtext of what he’s saying not just take his words at face value. He says that he does not care about his men but his actions demonstrate a deep care for the people that follow him, especially Guts. His speech to Charlotte about only seeing those who had their own dreams as equal actually reveals that Griffith feels immense guilt for what he views as himself trampling on the dreams of his followers to achieve his own goals. It’s not that he doesn’t care or only cares about power but rather that he can’t allow himself to care too deeply or get to close because if he does the weight of the sacrifices that so many people both living and dead have made for his sake would crush him. He can’t allow himself to falter after coming this far because that would be betraying all the people who sacrificed so much for his dream already.
I think it’s very clear that Guts and Griffith love each other. There are valid arguments for interpreting this love as either romantic or platonic but you can’t deny that it definitely exists. When Guts leaves it affects Griffith so strongly that he forgets about his dream for a time and looses literally everything. He doesn’t bring about the eclipse because he still desperately wants power, he does it because he comes to the devastating realization that he finally did the one thing he could never allow himself to do, betray the people whose dreams he stepped on, and because the god hand are manipulating him. In that moment he believes that he has to sacrifice his remaining followers and become a monster to achieve his dream, because that’s the only way he can make up for throwing away what he had achieved. As long as he keeps working toward that goal, all the sacrifices no matter how devastating will have been worth it. To say that Griffith only loved power is a huge disservice to an incredibly complicated and well written character.
Romantic “love” really isn’t something I think he understands. He loved guts, sure in a way. Its kinda like your super smart friend that talks down to you. He thinks of you only as far as you can be entertaining or on what you can do for him.
When he beat him for the first time and proved himself to not be a tool, it broke Griffith.
As I said in a precious comment the relationships are very layered, and I think Griffith, if he can understand any love is superseded for is want of power.
The Nile is a river in Egypt and Griffith is a sociopath who is in love with Guts. They have amazing tension and dynamic fr.
Short answer yes Griffith was in love with guts
Griffith was in love with him and his heartbreak woke Femto up.
Thats why he did what he did to casca in front of him.
@@asant90 Took away who Guts fell in love with, yup
Well, and the year of brutal torture, there was also that
The only Denial in this video is the Narrator. People forget the scene in the Eclipse where Griffy and Guts where both rising in the Hand where broken Griffith leaped to Guts so Guts could hold his arm and not fall. Again this was the BROKEN Griffith who had nothing to gain on letting Guts fall somehow finding the strength and care to not let Guts die. THATS not something most people can’t do / wouldn’t do in that situation unless they’re was More than specific friendship.
Plus let’s not forget that in order for a Sacrifice to Mean anything it has to be somebody you Love. And I’ve Never believed Griff loved the BoH enough. It was Guts, Guts specifically was the “Love” Griffith Sacrificed. Hence the “you’re the only one who made Me forget My Dream” scene.
A Sacrifice CAN NOT work without LOVE.
sacrifice doesn’t have to be someone you love, just means it would change you a lot if you lost / sacrificed that person (or thing technically).
though i do think griffith had romantic feelings for guts
Isnt it fucking obvious? The one time Guts left the group, Griffith had a fucking mental break down and committed a genocide over a bad break up
Griffith was obviously in love with guts. This video has me even more convinced of that... In fact I think this video has proven to me every single person who's ever argued against this obvious love, has simply never actually lived through a "scorned lover" scenario... Or didn't recognize their feelings when they did. 😜
I don’t know in a romantic way but in order to become a godhand you had sacrifice someone you love, which clearly was guts. The band was just collateral damage.
I say yes, the truest definition of falling in love, is to disregard all sense of logic in dealing with someone. So If you read devil man, the ending to violence jack and devil man lady, you see the parallels between the two main characters is undeniable 💯.
What are you talking about? He does show emotion on the hill of swords, as he leaves we see the “thump” of his heart in one of the last panels as he leaves. Depicting that he did feel something.
And I think you’re wrong, I think he does love Guts, from the very moment he sees Guts he treats him as someone special, at that point it had nothing to do with control.
And your proof at the end proves nothing, at that point he hated Guts for leaving him. Griffith was always going to sacrifice everyone, because living his life as a cripple was something he’d never do. So stopping to think what it’s going to do to Guts doesn’t mean he doesn’t love him.
As we all know the people who you hate the most can be someone you once loved. Go to any divorce court case.
He had heart beating in hill of sword due to demon child that stuck in his body.
I always envisioned Griffith as having had a love for Guts, but always a narcissistic, controlling kind
Guts chooses to leave for himself and Griffith's reaction is to not only challenge him but also decide possibly killing him is preferable to the guy actually fully leaving
It's something like Hannibal and Will Graham's relationship in the TV series Hannibal.
There's also the fact that when Griffith sees Guts and Casca hug when he was bandaged up he left to off himself and then ended up starting the whole eclipse. that's when I thought he had feelings for guts. he forgot his dream for a bit with guts.
You listed several arguments to "prove" that they are "just good friends", but each time you did I could only ask, "how is this not romantic love (in a twisted way or not)?"
"It's a resounding NO, Griffith only loves himself, and the fact that he started caring about someone else literally made him lose his mind" What made Griffith "started to caring about someone else"? A: L O V E
I geuninely don't understand HOW this is even a question lmao. He definitely was. I think the bigger question is, why does it matter to people? It takes away nothing from the story whatsoever. People take these things so personally when they aren't even that deep. 💀 They had a thing for each other 100%. Why do people get so pressed over it? lol. (Good vid btw!!)
its very important to the story. and why some people cant understand it properly.
@@mithos789 lol I'm talking about the homosexuality of it. I'm not saying the love itself didn't matter, I'm saying that the love being between two guys shouldn't matter.
@@iamathing7510 people are homophobic
Griffith also goes both ways. His body is just a thing to be used
If griffith didnt get tortured, would he have become a man who could sacrifice his comrades? He seems to blame Guts for what happened, when really it was all his fault.. i just wonder if Femto is who Griffith was all along, or if the torture drove him insane and that insane mind is what Femto is.. they never really explain the change in personality after ascending to demonhood.
I think femto was Griffith’s beast of darkness like guts
"they never really explain the change in personality after ascending to demonhood."
i mean they did show. once you sacrifice, they stripped away his humanity. during the transformation, you can see he doesnt feel anymore. so femto is griffith with no humanity. im not sure about neo-Griffith tho. the ceremony wasnt complete coz Guts escaped
@@sjkclau IDK what you mean by humanity, no two humans are alike or agree on morality or take the same actions in various situations. There are saints and demons in the world, all human.
Regardless, if they take away a part of griffith, his personality, his morality, his capacty to think, reason, empathize etc, then it is no longer the same Griffith as before, it is a being created from another being.
@@kenhammscousin4716 that's the point. It's not the same Griffith as before 😂 coz he transformed. He become boring ass. You can read it again if you like
@@sjkclau I suppose we agree, tho I don't think it was "shown" really, not spelled out... it raises the question of, is Griffith responsible for Femtos actions, and should Guts hate Griffith because the bad things came from griffith being manipulated. The clear answer would be if Griffith with free will and sound mind made the choice to sacrifice... otherwise he is innocent
Yup. Toxic, obsessive love. Still love.
7:54 Good job skipping the explanation for Griffith's "🤤 Hunger 😍" emotion towards Guts, Marvelous
it was always Clear to me that he is in love with the mighty Black Swordsman
it does not matter how By-sexual Griffith tries to be..
but who cannot love our Gutsu?
damn u to hell Griffith
> who cannot love our Gutsu?
this is another theme we will see. Berserk turning from a NTR story to a Harem story. The evidence is already there with a literal God Slan already starting to fall for Guts. I'm pretty sure even Charlotte will be Guts' woman before the story is finished.
Griffith fell in love with Guts💯. When guys left he became a scorned lover. I firmly believe if guts would have left but stayed in contact with Griffith it would have went better for the two. It's the fact that guys left with out any indication of coming back is what drove Griffith over the edge and broke his heart. That also explains why he did what he did with casca in the end. He peeped that guts fell in love with casca, so he violated her in front of guts in order to ensure that guts will to the end be obsessed with him and now for ever chase him. This was beyond a genius telling of a love story between two people 💯. Side note I believe guts fell in love with him before Griffith asked him to assassinate the Duke. When guys heard Griffiths telling of what a friend means to him, gutts became heart broken and embittered towards Griffith. Casca realized this and knew of Griffiths leanings towards other men which fueled her jealousy towards gutts preferential treatment towards gutts. So all in all berserk in the golden age ark is just a genius love triangle 💯.
Perfectly put, Its not even that complex… its written to flow perfectly as a love triangle and it went thru so many people’s heads….
Still disagree Griffith totally wanted Guts' guts but when he couldn't he lashed out like a jilted lover
I think i read Berserk 5 times now, from tip to top, and it's a Yes for me. Golden age makes INCREDIBLE perfect sense, when you read it knowing that it's a twisted love history, between two mens who have never adressed their feelings for each other, or to anyone, that ends in a visceral,dark,gore,hopeless way that only Berserk can deliver. The message is there in every way, the gazing, the eyelooks, the bath scene, and many more, in fact, knowing that Guts loved Griffith romantically, makes his confusion after the ceremony, even more brutal and heartbreaking.
@@jimtc1000 i use to think like that, but Guts really looked up to Griffith in such ways, that he was willing to leave everything behind, all his friends and achievements, just to live a life worth of a Griffiths friendship. That's love right there. Unresolved love.
@@grimmjow480 lol Guts literally said to Griffith when Griffith first beat him in a duel " make me your soldier you butt buddy or whatever" and Guts left the Hawks cause he thought Griffith's feeling towards Guts mattered to him that much, so i do agree with you, if this story was more centered about romance and not tragedy/horror they wouldve been a perfect couple
@@deadlyfemboy4289 guts did leave the hawks for griffith true but not in a romantic way at all, remember guts just wanted to be griffith equal to be considered his (best friend) guts was in love with casca
Guts definitely loved Griffith but it wasn’t romantic especially considering Casca. For Guts it amounted to deep platonic intimacy. Griffith tho is a different story of course. He had found his soul mate. Too bad it was set up for failure and he was blind to it until it was too late.
@@coletomlinson5190 bro, a friend doesn't make you shiver
He definitely loves guts guys
I think their relationship is complex but at the same time pretty straightforward. I think it’s pretty easy to tell that they’re pretty infatuated by one another. They find each other extremely interesting. And a lot of the times infatuation can be mistaken for genuine romance but it’s not.
So great how you juxtapose an awesome well written analysis with ride or die bros.😂
It is truly scary and traumatic for Guts to be trapped in the machinations of men who want to take advantage of him or just want him dead
It is evident that Griffith has feelings for Guts (either romantically or deep brotherly love)
1. Even Casca knew it. Read the first time Casca and Guts fell into the cliff.
2. it was Guts who made him forget about his dream. Griffith throughout his existence all that matters to him was his dream. But that changed when Guts came into his life. He was distracted. He said so himself, "only you made me forget about my dream"
3. He put his life on the line twice just to save Guts. If his dream is his top priority, why bother saving Guts? Esp their fight with Zodd, it's a very risky battle and it's their first time to see a monster. That's why Guts questioned him why he need to save him. Which lead us to "Do I need a reason to" scene which was drawn romantic AF. they locked eyes and Guts kinda looks flustered.
4. And obv, the scene in the prison. "How long ago did someone I was supposed to have in hand...instead gain such a strong hold on me?" "When it comes to him I can't keep my equilibrium"
I'm not saying that his love is romantic becoz he is so emotionally immature to understand his feelings. And it wasnt confirmed. I'm just saying that it's worded or drawn romantic AF that personally id lean towards it being romantic. It can be platonic, it can be romantic. But feelings are feelings and for sure he has feelings for Guts.
They're obviously just roommates
Obviously Griffith loved Guts
He is feminine guy and Guts was his waifu
Pretty sure Bazuso was not in the Band of the Hawk. The fact that Corkus laments not being the one to kill him himself proves that. Bazuso was just another mercenary or soldier fighting on the same side as the Band at that particular battle.
Is very lame that ppl have doubts about griffith's feelings when they are obvious. No one would do what he did to someone that is just a friend. It was more than that.
Yes. So clearly yes. 💀
Yeah, romantic love is definitely never associated with sorrow, regret, jealousy, emptiness, or hunger…. it’s never conflicted or toxic. Consequently, that’s why the new Tswift album is called “The Very Happy Poets Department”
this is devilman all over again
can you elaborate on that
@@zombiepiss961 where the charcter with the white hair or blonde hair betrays the black haired character if u watch devilman u will understand
@@obaolade1232this time the black haired character betrayed the white haired character. if guts wasnt autistic he could clearly see griffith loved and respected him. he was just macking on a floosy.
@@mithos789 true tho
Okay lets not forget that Griffith thinking about Guts when he had s*x with Princess Charlotte and the way he raped Casca , its beyond me that not only trying Gut's skin but more like he tried show him that he likes Guts. So yeah messed up. So to your video although I gave you the like but you're bit wrong on this.
He was definitely attracted to Guts. When Guts asked,”Why do you keep helping me, when I’m in trouble?”. Pretty creepy and gay. But Guts is right for asking. 😂
Yes. He is. Insecure alpha-wannabes are so obsessed with denying the obvious. 💀
You're making grand assumptions about the video makers intentions . You're obviously someone who is projecting their own circumstances on the story . 😂
@jim tc When did I ever even talk about the video creator 💀 I'm talking about the fandom.
You're so quick to jump to conclusions. You ok? 🤔
@@yallaintit Your 100% right
@@yallaintit you said these "alpha-wannabes are so OBSESSED WITH DENYING THE OBVIOUS" the creator is refuting the point your making that Griffith is in love with guts so your lumping him in with that technically . So yeah you are talking about the video maker don't try to reel it back .
@jim tc Don't tell me who I'M talking about, you clown. 💀 If somebody wants to deny that they liked each other, then that's fine. I think it's a total BS take on the story, but people will always have their own interpretations and that's cool w me. But then there's the alpha wannabes that deny their connection for the sole purpose of trying to maintain a "manly/epic/women 🦅😎🔫" image. I never claimed the video creator was one of those jerks. 💀 I'm talking to the guys that fall into the second category, not the first (the guy in the video). Goofy.
well my opinion is on this question . Is Griffith in love with Guts ? and my answer is that no, but Does Griffith lusts over Guts ? that i have to say maybe. In the movie 1 Griffith said: I want you and then Guts said: You want my body in that way? in that question Griffith was silent he didn`t said no , but he didn`t said yes either. in other words he did not confirmed or denied either. So I read it that " Not now , but when i have my kindom maybe" so did Griffith loved Guts no . did Griffith lusted Guts yes. remember that Romantic love and Lust is completley different things.
good point bro
I don't think it's love, obsession maybe. Griffith looks at everything and everyone as possessions and Guts was his prize. I believe he wanted Guts physically and he couldn't handle anything around him not following him blindly once he decided to leave. That's when he lost it. Like a real life violent relationship, you may think you love a person you abuse but you can't.
Indeed. Griffith considered the Band of the Hawk nothing more than a tool yet Guts was special, he never idolized him or kissed his ass all the time. When he left Griffith lost control of his puppet so his entire character crumbled.
You trippin. Of all the "cases" you make for different theories this was your weakest. All the emotions Grif was feeling while down bad was the same stuff you feel for that chick who left you. Grif was basically all of us, effed up, drunk and feeling all sorts of crazy ish in some dirty apartment. If you can't relate to that then let this be your first and final romantic themed video.
it always hurts when a bromance ends
This video proved the opposite point of what it set out to do, judging by the comment section, lmao. Seriously, guys, if it walks like a duck...
They were fr so gay 💀
I literally just posted a meme about the homoerotic subtext in Berserk, and then I see you guys dropped this video 😄
GUTS isn't gay and was never coo with it. When Casca told GUTS ab Griffith's night with the old gay dude, GUTS went into denial
I see the point here but it’s simply wrong I mean when Griffith was reborn and went to see guts to make sure he has no emotion towards him (that being romantic or platonic whatever) he most definitely DID feel emotion towards him imo? He just lied and it’s made obvious to me bc mirua makes sure it’s noticeable that Griffiths heart was pounding and that after he thinks to himself the emotion he felt was from caskas baby bc he used it to be reborn (wether his emotion was restored from the baby or not idk) but my point is it shows he had and still has some type of emotion for guts
I just gonna say “ ya he probably is. ❤👨❤️👨
Griffith = Case study of a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Plot twist
Griffith actually raped Casca because he was angry Guts refused to sheat his big black blade inside him 🗿
No weird stuff, but when Guts kill Griffith, I hope Griffith tells Guts that he loves him when he reverts back to his humanity before his death and Guts shed a single tear. Because although we all hate Griffith, him and Guts were like brothers at one point.
what do you mean by "No weird stuff"?
@@direcircumstances just clearing up that I meant this in a friendship way not a I always loved you way.
@Death of the Ego Why would "I love you" in a non friendship way be weird?
@@direcircumstances youtube is weird, I'm just making sure I'm understood.
@Death of the Ego sure...
There's a certain section of the Berserk fandom that will bend over backwards trying to explain why there's nothing romantic/sexual about the relationship Griffith has with Guts. It's actually really pathetic.
What's the matter guys? Do you think reading a manga with a gay character is going to magically turn you gay? Grow up.
Your anger tward some one with a different opinion is more immature.
Edit : I saw you other reply to another comment which explains this salty post.
@@jimtc1000 Cope
no i entirely agree, this whole video was basically “yes griffith shows every symptom of love towards guts but he isn’t actually romantically in love with him”, idk why they believe that just because griffith is a bad person that he isn’t capable of loving someone in his own way, is it toxic? yes but is it still love? also yes
@zombiepiss🧟💤 I think it's because some guys can't understand the concept of a character who is incredibly powerful, dominant, complex, respected by everyone he meets, AND gay/bi/pan/whatever. It just doesn't compute for them. They are only comfortable with gay characters if they are off to the side, supporting the main character, and barely ever mention their sexuality. OR they might also be cool with a gay female character who is really sexy and gets frisky with other women in front of us.
Wow we have a whole fanfiction at the first half here
If the berserk manga ended the final battle between guts vs Griffith would be a epic battle
Griffith absolutely loved Guts. It wasn’t healthy, well expressed or something he wanted, but he was obsessively down bad. C’mon now. Miura is an incredible writer, the homoeroticism is intentional.
Griffith so obviously loved Guts everything he did in the end was from that feeling of love, its because he loved him that he felt hate towards him as well much like how others feel if someone they loved leaves them or emotionally hurts them. Griffith thought Guts abandoned him and he did not know how to communicate those feelings in a healthy way especially after his torture where he couldn't even freaking speak. I feel so many deny it because he's a guy if Griffith was a girl or Guts was a girl I think everyone would see it more clearly. Griffith is pretty much a yandere.
Griffith was gender-fluid asf and guts is a suprisingly intimate fellow underneath all that badassery and trauma so I can see how alot of people mis-interpret it as such. I genuinely think it was a bromance and Griffith was a super possessive sociopath with terrible coping mechanisms.
Would Griffith be giving or taking it? (You know what I mean)
I think this video misses the mark.
Sure, ultimately he chooses his dream over love, but there is still love, thats why he has this internal conflict about not understanding why he cares about Guts as much as his dream.
Also saying he cares for no one, not even the people who die in battle for him is really bad. I get that Griffith isnt perfect and becomes straight up evil, but we cant act like he has no empathy when he literally claws into his own flesh out of guilt when thinking about those who die for him.
What is love?
Baby don't hurt mee
@@makenziereynolds2117don’t hurt me!
No more
And after hearing all this i say griffith love guts 3 reasons he got caught having sex with the princess because he wanted to forget about guts but even when he was having sex with her was still thinking about guts😂and i actually was waiting for griffith to call princess charlotte guts😂second bro couldn't stop blaming guts for everything guts did nothing wrong people like to say griffith did nothing wrong instead of saying guts did nothing wrong and guts leaving is still not guts fault to prove this in the anime and manga griffith said these same words to princess charlotte "a friend to me would have a dream of their own and overcome mine and go along to fullfill their own" and when guts did he ended up backstabbing guts 3rd say what you want about the whole you are mine now guts but that is not saying I'm not gay that sounds gay as hell not to mention that one episode where he was naked and he played water war with guts naked and when i mean naked i don't mean half clothes naked i mean that mf was naked😂😂
I watching this during Pride month 💀☠️
berserk and griffin are my favourite couple 🏳️🌈💪💅
Griffin is just a big tsuandre/Yandera
Maybe in the past, but after becoming Femto, he couldn't care less about Guts.
oh please. then why doesnt he end him.
@@mithos789cuz guts is insignificant in his eyes now.
@@SaradaUchiha-jv2jd really? the guy you run to every moon is insignificant?
thank you for berserk , i think you should make vinland saga content
People are really in denial no? Just because Griffith doesn't straight up said that he loves Guts "directly", romantically or sexually, doesn't mean that he doesn't. It's how a person reacts and feels for someone, no need for direct "I love yous". Majority of those in denials are obviously men, trying to justify Griffith's straightness... Many people here are so dense.
Griffith has never been in love before... until Guts. And he doesn't know how to actually channel those feelings properly, specially when it was rejected, by the only person he fells for. So just like many men reacts to rejection, they can be very revengefully toxic.
I really want to add that since Berserk is a Japanese manga, you should all be aware that Japanese are very subtle with it comes to expression of romance. They are not grandeur and bold unlike most in the world.
Like how they use the expression "The moon is beautiful tonight" as a more meaningful instead of saying a direct "I love you".
kinda,I mean yeah if you really think about it
I am a homosexual guy and i acknowledge for you its a homosexual love going on because when i am with a love with a guy and he is straight i act the same as grefith and in one episode Griffith sleeped with an old man for mony but he prefer man his same age its clear he is a gay pokerface guy and playboy that grifth but he want guts for him I don't know why he doesn't say it directly to him that he loves him and want to make up with him maybe because that will stop in has ambition way.
read that half the manga just to see guts go down on that grifussy , easily the biggest disappointment of my life .
Griffith was definitely not in love with Guts. The people who think otherwise lack a full, experienced understanding of what it means to have a friend, which is to say they probably never had one.
I also think the people who push the romantic angle are those who lack the ability to think beyond romance. I had a best friend in high school, and we always hung out, goofed off, joked around, and a bunch of retards accused us of being gay for each other. We'd both ways laugh it off, with me looking at them like they were retarded, which they were.
I had another friend who believes that those who see romantic relationships in two male best friends do nothing but devalue the frienship, which I 100% agree with. I think reducing male bonding to a manifestation of sexual urges is a symptom of ignorance, shallowness, and a general lack of ability to relate to other people through a lens that does not involve their genitalia.
I'm not trying to disregard your statement but was your friendship with this person as intense as Guts and Griffith's ? even able to surpass the feelings and affection that you can develop to someone you are sexually attracted to/become your wife? I think the friendship argument works if people can accept that the love of your life can be your best friend and I think for a lot of people their the love of their lives is always someone they are sexually attracted. So they are confused with Guts and Griffith's relationship. but for some people it can actually be their best friend that they may not have sexual attraction for...but this argument only works if you believe friendship can surpass a romantic partner.
The denial is real with this one 💀 There are plenty of shows that accurately depict male friendships, and this is not one of them because it was more than a friendship. The only argument I'd agree with is saying that Griffith was way too emotionally immature to have feelings of "love" that he could understand. Other than that, nah. There's a stack of evidence to prove they liked each other, and yall just wanna cling to your "manliness." 🤓 lmaooo
Insulting and making assumptions about people who might disagree with you doesn't make your argument stronger lmao. They so clearly had a thing for each other.
Do you think about your "best friend" the entire time you have sex with a girl?
@@mintegral1719 I wouldn't be surprised if he did 😭 bro is closeted
I don’t think it’s love as in romantic, but as a friendship
If your best friend left you, would you go have sex and think about him while self harming ? Please , I’m a new fan and I already can see this
Lol you are definitely on to something here.
Basically, yes, kinda
Yes because everything has to be gay. It can’t just be a male having dominion over another.
A lot of things aren't gay. Why do you get so upset over shit like this? It's not a big deal.
"a male having dominion over another" Sounds pretty gay.
One story has homoerotic undertones = "everything has to be gay." 🤓
Miura used BL manga to inspire his work 😭 and yeah, thinking of your homies while railing a girl and naked water fights are so hetero. And the creator of the movies mentioning how he needed to portray their "romantic feelings" was just being a lil silly. 💀
Most of it makes sense.
Though, Griffith statement with his actions come contradictory to each other. Not as a writting plot, but on contrary, as there are 2 persons under that skin. (Pun not intended).
Like Griffith's claiming he has no remorse for his fallen soldiers, though he get nailed by a old man just to advance with fewer causalities. Claims to be a strategic cation when he claw his own skin n flesh on pure self disgust and other feelings.
More like there's another person burried inside him, but he unconsciously suppress it.
THAT was BEFORE meeting Guts. So, Griffith forgetting his dream only because of Guts still does not stick to me. The guy is way more that shows.
Now knowing that he will share a body with Guts chlid way in the future is insane.
But no, there was not a romantic feeling.
To end the argument, on Griffith's rescue, twas a part when Casca feelings on him was meant to make Guts feel jealous.
Instead he was thinking how HE was the one that still couldn't let go of Griffith (then thought was interrupted cause Miura didn't want to give more on that relation).
If you may have yor doubts on Griffith, you cannot have any doubts on Guts that was no romantic feeling, but frendship, loyalty, respect. And apparently something more, that the author intentionally won't let out until the end. As might be a key to the endgame.
If you think I am getting somewhere, I can add to my mumbling
Yall lost all credibility with this post.
It’s the Band of the Hawk!
You’re still destroying my brain!
Seriously though I do love the content, but it’s driving me mad when you say band of the falcon
Swiggity Swooty
Griffth is coming to smack your booty
Band of the Hawks. Not falcons ❌
very well Put. I agree
Let’s hope Griffith x guts happens :D guts is always top though :D
More like infatuation
Griffith rapes Casca because he doesn't want to kill Guts. He rapes Casca in order to destroy Guts so that he can finish the rituals without losing the man he loves. He may have another plan in his head to have Guts again. Griffith still loves Guts after all.
I've always seen it as a form of domination. A way to let guts know that he owns him.
He doesn't have to show who is in control at the moment with all the power he just receives. It is just the ritual which demands a sacrify. The ritual is what he has to focus on. Showing who has the upper hand is not the the focus of the ritual.
After Guts is reborn, the first thing he does is going back to see he still has feeling for him which is the reason he lost everything. Right before the ritual, he realizes that out of thousands, Guts is the one made him forget his dream or in Casca's words he can't continue without Guts. This is one of the most romantic line ever in manga but ppl would still deny his love just because Guts is considered to be evil.
👀
hes the LGBT+ as a person
He's in love with himself. He might respect guts, but it's just a means to an end. HIs own kingdom.
Yes and No. Griffith would certinly say that is the case when asked. But when he losses the fight to Guts and Guts leaves Griffith brakes down. He would not do that over a tool. It happens because not only does Guts show he has his won dreams by demanding to leave. (and thus become in the eyes of Griffith a friend and eqaul in his on words) But he overpowers him whit ease and that hurts him even more. Griffith might not love Guts but Guts certainly means more to him then just a means to an end.
@@koenvandiepen7651 "he was a stone cold killer, and only cared for himself" th-cam.com/video/OCjXe1-yFbQ/w-d-xo.html
he literally says out of tens of thousands of people you are the only person that made me forget my dreams.
@@mithos789 narcs/psychos will say anything to get you to do what they want. It's called love bombing.
@@zurc_botthe godhand ritual would literally not work if he didnt love guts