Your idea solved one of my problems, instead of spending a ton of money on a 12’ straight edge I’m going to clamp my two longest levels together to determine where the dips and peaks are. Thanks!
Pro tip for grinding: you can buy a grinder housing that you can hook your shop vac to and save yourself a mountain of dust. Another pro tip is to get a high powered light and set it flush to the subfloor and shine across it in a darkened room to quickly find high low issues.
Very impressive undertaking of a job that is far less simple than it seems. You have done a much, much better job than even a good floor installer would have done.
There's a good number of people out there that have difficulty understanding the concept of flatness vs. level. To install a floor one needs only to strive for flatness, not level. In fact the term level should not be used in the future when referring to flooring. It should be specified in terms of flatness over a given span, e.g. the maximum allowable deviation shall be 1/4 inch over a 10 ft. span. If slope is important then by all means specify that too but the primary measurement should be relative flatness. This is a relative specification, not an absolute as with the term level. If the slope of the subfloor (concrete) is aesthetically unpleasing then by all means do what's necessary to make it "flatter", or "level" if possible, but again, strive for flatness.
@@Jaylowridera lot of mills changed it to 1/8" over 15' now. The product doesn't get better, they just make it easier to not actually follow through on their warranties. Most people can't even afford the work needed to fit warranty spec lol
"maximum allowable deviation" is the operating keyword. For laminate wood, if the subfloor is concrete, then a deviation should be within 1/8 inch in a 6 ft radius. Would that mean, a high point and a low point from center, inside of 6 ft radius can be total of 1/8 inch ? In other words, (0 to high) + (0 to low) =< 1/8 inch. (=< means equal to or less than). In this case, how do we define flatness ? Do we only consider 0 to high and grind it ? or consider 0 to low and pour self-level concrete ? or do both... What is acceptable for laminate wood ?
Good info, thanks. Would suggest also checking perpendicular to the axis so that you see how flat the areas are from multiple directions. And, from personal experience using both a grinder and a rotary-hammer with an 1'1/2" chisel, I'd strongly recommend using the rotary-hammer. It "shaves" off small amounts. Here's another hint: pre-drill the area with a carbide 1/4" drill to an 1/8" - 1/4" depth. Multiple shallow holes help with the chiseling process and you can place a damp towel over the holes for about an hour prior to chiseling, adding water until the towel is saturated. This helps minimize dry dust. Keep a spray bottle handy and use a cardboard barrier as shown in the video.
To show dips, you could use like a colored sand or similar, screed across it with the level or a long straight edge. Colored sand only remains in any low spots (same as we see water areas pond in a lawn) In other words temporarily flatten it with the sand, then once identified, each area could be measured for depth, or, draw a circle around the area, remove sand, and add leveler there, screed it as needed.
Get a dust collection adapter for the grinder. They’re affordable and will save a LOT of mess. I also recommend a dust vortex collection bucket to save your vac from clogging on the fine dust that grinding creates. All that with the plastic you put up is worth it.
To anyone reading this; forget that dust collection bucket when using a dust shroud with an angle grinder. It lowers the suction. You need a bag in your shop vac. You still get a little dust but much less. Also get at least a 5.5 hp shop vac
The thing that's difficult is you cannot split the difference between flat and level. You have to pick one. and I totally get why you chose flatness. Good explaining. The only way to make it level would be to pull everything out and flooring and baseboards and pour leveling throughout the house, or everywhere but bedrooms.. That would be costly and an enormous amount of work.
Yep... in an old house especially with decades of settling... level rarely exists. Unless there's a huge variance with level I pick flat over level every time.
I have an entire section of my home (previously a garage) that is completely not leveled, based on your video it looks like leveling this side of the house is not feasible, however our high spots are extreme I would say about 1/2 inch. I can fit my whole hand underneath my door. How do you flatten something so badly leveled. Is grinding down the high spots the only option?
Grinding down the high spots and filling any remaining low spots with patch and fill is the best option. If you build the entire floor up to the highest spot with a cement product would it be to high for door openings. In other words a half higher floor at a door opening won't work. If there are no issues bringing the entire floor up to the highest point then that would be the easiest way to flatten the floor. Thanks for watching.
Self leveling cement is amazing. No need to grind or fuss it’s quick and easy. Once it’s dry and you check to make sure it’s all level then you ready to lay your new flooring.
Bought this laser and tried your method my highest and lowest spot is about an inch and 5/8 off. What do you suggest? Currently I’m renovating so I only have plywood and studs. My lowest point has a new wall over it I installed. I’m thinking about removing the subfloor on the highest points and using a planer.
Not sure how to help you the best. Flooring can be removed and high spot lowered. Leaving low spots to be filled. The entire floor could be removed new level joists sistered on to old ones. Then plane off the high spots so new floor is near perfect. Or can the idea of level be scraped and focus on flattening the surface. If leveling will not create a one inch drop at a hallway or make floor to high at a door opening it would work best. If leveling the floor creates more issues than it resolves flattening is best.
The high spots are to the outside walls and the lower spot are to the hallways and entrance of the dining room. It’s the kitchen floors which I’m having issues with. How would I go about flattening the surface on3/4 plywood. Sistering joist seems like a whole lot of work but may be the best.
I had a stuff time leveling our bathroom bath enclosure area after the sub floor was replaced. Subfloor rotted out down to the floor joist. I used self lever plus with t primer from Lowe's. I only needed 1/4-3/8 I had to see the laser level at that mark second attempt susscees!
Assuming you can project your laser beam low enough to the ground, I'm thinking you could have tried using smoke (or a dry ice machine) to pick out the laser light so it acts as a visual straightedge right across the floor.
The high spots were higher than the floor in the hallway. It would have created a step down. Or as some people call it a trip Hazzard. Thanks for watching.
I have never owned or used a laser level. Do they all shoot out the laser from the bottom? I have an old house that needs the outer foundation replaced and I need a way to level all the outside walls with the main crossover beam that runs through the center of the house. And would an el cheapo one work since I won’t be using it much afterwards?
It will work, the only down fall is there are harder to see outside. I would typically do my layout in the early evening or early morning when there is very little sunshine to deal with. Thanks for watching.
How do you know that the floor itself is having the problem and not the foundation? That is my issue. I'm worried that excess water long term has undermined my foundation. How could I use this to determine if my problem is the foundation, or just a messed up underlay?
Inspect the foundation and look for cracks in the Mortar. Not just little cracks but big ones. If the crawl space is accessible inspect the inside also. Pay close attention to the corners and any cracks. If no large cracks are seen, it is most likely the foundation is fine.
@@detroitdiy Thank you. How would I see the foundation? I feel stupid but I've never owned a stick built house before. There is a crawlspace that I wouldn't go in to save my claustrophobic life, but it is covered in dirt and you can't see anything down there. Is this something I could check on the outside of my house? My neighbors have been flooding this property for years with their greywater. I found it sitting against the house and the ground was thoroughly saturated. My house seems to be tilting towards this heavily-soaked area. I can't afford 30-100k to level it, so I'm hoping it's just a bad floor job.
At the bottom of the siding there should be cement block or poured cement foundation. Check those areas. If the foundation cannot be seen from outside you would have no choice but to go in the crawl space. The water needs to be drained away from the foundation. Either grade the area properly or have a drainage system installed.
Check if all room floors slope mostly down in the same direction or if some are level, some off. Also look for what parts might be an addition. Notice variance.
You sometimes find a mess with how homes were constructed (so lots of time and efford, and maybe only make way more work for yourself) Also, if there,s only a crawlspace under, you can't really do the work from below, so not worth the effort, and probably still wouldn't end up aa goodvas you'd like. It's a real PITA to flatten some floors.
Probably not all that useful but in different stages of this you could use a different coloured marker each time you make changes to not get confused easily. Great video though.
I could not, my floor was way high on one side. Leveling it was out of the question. My only option was to flatten it so the flooring would lay flat. Thanks for watching.
A seemingly never ending 23 minute video to describe what should have been done in 4 minutes. Bring a lunch and go to the bathroom before watching or LIBERALLY skip ahead like I did.
Yes the level was configured as recommended, my floor was to unlevel to correct it. I was shooting for flat. So working off of a vertical wall didn't have any relevance for me. Thanks for watching.
Why doesn't anyone use water when they're grinding concrete indoors? There must be something I'm missing. If it's about water getting into the grinder I think you can just use a gfci outlet or extension cord and just keep adding a little water at a time to the floor
I personally don't use water because I have found the cement paste to be way harder to clean up than the dust. Also the paste splatters on everything, if it gets behind the plastic on cabinets or other things it is abrasive to clean off. Hope this helps.
@@bartseller8601It depends. If a floor is off some, say quite a bit, in considering the fix.. if you use lots of self leveler, it's going to self level... in other words, you might want to make your floor flat, but, the leveler can make it "level" so NOT flat to the unleveled flooring.
I wanted to clarify with globe earther about their beliefs about this world shape together with civil engineering. See what their answer about water level in oder to get the building stand straight 90° 🤣
The creation of your mini ruler to find different heights or dips in the floor was great.
Why didn't this idea cross my mind. Great video. I learned something really valuable today
I am glad I could help.
Your idea solved one of my problems, instead of spending a ton of money on a 12’ straight edge I’m going to clamp my two longest levels together to determine where the dips and peaks are. Thanks!
Very clear explanation on how to find the high and low spots with the laser level. It will be handy when I renovate my kitchen. Thank you very much.
Thanks for watching.
Pro tip for grinding: you can buy a grinder housing that you can hook your shop vac to and save yourself a mountain of dust. Another pro tip is to get a high powered light and set it flush to the subfloor and shine across it in a darkened room to quickly find high low issues.
Very impressive undertaking of a job that is far less simple than it seems. You have done a much, much better job than even a good floor installer would have done.
Great video, i dont usually comment on videos, but i felt like the explanation was explained very well. Thank you very much for this video.
This was exactly the information that helped me move forward with my project. Thank you very much for making this video.
Glad I could help!
There's a good number of people out there that have difficulty understanding the concept of flatness vs. level. To install a floor one needs only to strive for flatness, not level. In fact the term level should not be used in the future when referring to flooring. It should be specified in terms of flatness over a given span, e.g. the maximum allowable deviation shall be 1/4 inch over a 10 ft. span. If slope is important then by all means specify that too but the primary measurement should be relative flatness. This is a relative specification, not an absolute as with the term level. If the slope of the subfloor (concrete) is aesthetically unpleasing then by all means do what's necessary to make it "flatter", or "level" if possible, but again, strive for flatness.
Flat baby!!!!
1/4” in 10 for tile under 15” on any one side
Over 15” is 1/8” in 10
Wood and luxury vinyl is 3/16” in 10
✌️
@@Jaylowridera lot of mills changed it to 1/8" over 15' now. The product doesn't get better, they just make it easier to not actually follow through on their warranties. Most people can't even afford the work needed to fit warranty spec lol
i'm so glad i read this comment before redoing my floors
"maximum allowable deviation" is the operating keyword. For laminate wood, if the subfloor is concrete, then a deviation should be within 1/8 inch in a 6 ft radius. Would that mean, a high point and a low point from center, inside of 6 ft radius can be total of 1/8 inch ?
In other words, (0 to high) + (0 to low) =< 1/8 inch. (=< means equal to or less than).
In this case, how do we define flatness ? Do we only consider 0 to high and grind it ? or consider 0 to low and pour self-level concrete ? or do both...
What is acceptable for laminate wood ?
Good info, thanks. Would suggest also checking perpendicular to the axis so that you see how flat the areas are from multiple directions.
And, from personal experience using both a grinder and a rotary-hammer with an 1'1/2" chisel, I'd strongly recommend using the rotary-hammer. It "shaves" off small amounts.
Here's another hint: pre-drill the area with a carbide 1/4" drill to an 1/8" - 1/4" depth. Multiple shallow holes help with the chiseling process and you can place a damp towel over the holes for about an hour prior to chiseling, adding water until the towel is saturated. This helps minimize dry dust. Keep a spray bottle handy and use a cardboard barrier as shown in the video.
Great info thanks for watching
Good idea 👍🏻
I was hoping for a shortcut I hadn’t considered. At least I know I’m not the only one suffering trying to flatten a floor! :)
Sorry, no short cuts.
To show dips, you could use like a colored sand or similar, screed across it with the level or a long straight edge.
Colored sand only remains in any low spots (same as we see water areas pond in a lawn) In other words temporarily flatten it with the sand, then once identified, each area could be measured for depth, or, draw a circle around the area, remove sand, and add leveler there, screed it as needed.
Wow! I like that idea. Ever tried it?
@josiahutah3712 Not yet, but possibly will on a project if I ever get to it.
Is it possible to lower your level line down an 1/8 or 3/8?
No, It is a fixed height. Other laser levels may be different.
Get a dust collection adapter for the grinder. They’re affordable and will save a LOT of mess. I also recommend a dust vortex collection bucket to save your vac from clogging on the fine dust that grinding creates. All that with the plastic you put up is worth it.
To anyone reading this; forget that dust collection bucket when using a dust shroud with an angle grinder. It lowers the suction. You need a bag in your shop vac. You still get a little dust but much less. Also get at least a 5.5 hp shop vac
Thank You...got me started on a barn floor I need to level.
Your video helped a lot. Thank you
Great advice here
Nice straight edge.
The thing that's difficult is you cannot split the difference between flat and level. You have to pick one. and I totally get why you chose flatness. Good explaining. The only way to make it level would be to pull everything out and flooring and baseboards and pour leveling throughout the house, or everywhere but bedrooms.. That would be costly and an enormous amount of work.
Yep... in an old house especially with decades of settling... level rarely exists. Unless there's a huge variance with level I pick flat over level every time.
This was amazing video...learn a lot. Thank you!!
Love your video good job sir
I have an entire section of my home (previously a garage) that is completely not leveled, based on your video it looks like leveling this side of the house is not feasible, however our high spots are extreme I would say about 1/2 inch. I can fit my whole hand underneath my door. How do you flatten something so badly leveled. Is grinding down the high spots the only option?
Grinding down the high spots and filling any remaining low spots with patch and fill is the best option. If you build the entire floor up to the highest spot with a cement product would it be to high for door openings. In other words a half higher floor at a door opening won't work. If there are no issues bringing the entire floor up to the highest point then that would be the easiest way to flatten the floor. Thanks for watching.
Great ideas! Thanks, Man!
Thanks for watching
Set your laser three feet off the floor and use a drywall t square upside down. Easier than trying to read the measurements down low.
Self leveling cement is amazing. No need to grind or fuss it’s quick and easy. Once it’s dry and you check to make sure it’s all level then you ready to lay your new flooring.
Can't fix a problem where the subfloor is too high, hence the grinding, etc.
Liked and subscribed. In a very similar situation myself now.
Thank you.
Bought this laser and tried your method my highest and lowest spot is about an inch and 5/8 off. What do you suggest? Currently I’m renovating so I only have plywood and studs. My lowest point has a new wall over it I installed. I’m thinking about removing the subfloor on the highest points and using a planer.
Not sure how to help you the best. Flooring can be removed and high spot lowered. Leaving low spots to be filled. The entire floor could be removed new level joists sistered on to old ones. Then plane off the high spots so new floor is near perfect. Or can the idea of level be scraped and focus on flattening the surface. If leveling will not create a one inch drop at a hallway or make floor to high at a door opening it would work best. If leveling the floor creates more issues than it resolves flattening is best.
The high spots are to the outside walls and the lower spot are to the hallways and entrance of the dining room. It’s the kitchen floors which I’m having issues with. How would I go about flattening the surface on3/4 plywood. Sistering joist seems like a whole lot of work but may be the best.
I had a stuff time leveling our bathroom bath enclosure area after the sub floor was replaced. Subfloor rotted out down to the floor joist. I used self lever plus with t primer from Lowe's. I only needed 1/4-3/8 I had to see the laser level at that mark second attempt susscees!
Assuming you can project your laser beam low enough to the ground, I'm thinking you could have tried using smoke (or a dry ice machine) to pick out the laser light so it acts as a visual straightedge right across the floor.
I was thinking if you just pour self leveler, would that be easier? Instead of grinding.
The high spots were higher than the floor in the hallway. It would have created a step down. Or as some people call it a trip Hazzard. Thanks for watching.
Do you have a link for the level laser?
www.cpooutlets.com/factory-reconditioned-bosch-gll50hc-rt-self-leveling-cordless-cross-line-laser/bshrgll50hc-rt.html?ref=pla&gclid=CjwKCAjwxZqSBhAHEiwASr9n9CD_OFkLp55gOkAoHEgZwi4ShAEqF7uhmE1mu_cevTu98xZxL08AmRoCn1IQAvD_BwE
@@detroitdiy Thank you! This is going to be a real job but it has to be done.
I have never owned or used a laser level. Do they all shoot out the laser from the bottom? I have an old house that needs the outer foundation replaced and I need a way to level all the outside walls with the main crossover beam that runs through the center of the house. And would an el cheapo one work since I won’t be using it much afterwards?
It will work, the only down fall is there are harder to see outside. I would typically do my layout in the early evening or early morning when there is very little sunshine to deal with. Thanks for watching.
Now your dealing with the problems that are much better than the first guy’s problems I bet
How do you know that the floor itself is having the problem and not the foundation? That is my issue. I'm worried that excess water long term has undermined my foundation. How could I use this to determine if my problem is the foundation, or just a messed up underlay?
Inspect the foundation and look for cracks in the Mortar. Not just little cracks but big ones. If the crawl space is accessible inspect the inside also. Pay close attention to the corners and any cracks. If no large cracks are seen, it is most likely the foundation is fine.
@@detroitdiy Thank you. How would I see the foundation? I feel stupid but I've never owned a stick built house before. There is a crawlspace that I wouldn't go in to save my claustrophobic life, but it is covered in dirt and you can't see anything down there. Is this something I could check on the outside of my house? My neighbors have been flooding this property for years with their greywater. I found it sitting against the house and the ground was thoroughly saturated. My house seems to be tilting towards this heavily-soaked area. I can't afford 30-100k to level it, so I'm hoping it's just a bad floor job.
At the bottom of the siding there should be cement block or poured cement foundation. Check those areas. If the foundation cannot be seen from outside you would have no choice but to go in the crawl space. The water needs to be drained away from the foundation. Either grade the area properly or have a drainage system installed.
Check if all room floors slope mostly down in the same direction or if some are level, some off. Also look for what parts might be an addition. Notice variance.
Would in not be easier to pull the subfloor and go with level ing the joist and put subfloor back?
Definitely not you need to pull a permit & all kinds of issues can pop up
You sometimes find a mess with how homes were constructed (so lots of time and efford, and maybe only make way more work for yourself) Also, if there,s only a crawlspace under, you can't really do the work from below, so not worth the effort, and probably still wouldn't end up aa goodvas you'd like. It's a real PITA to flatten some floors.
@johnf5122 I get it , yep definitely a hair puller.
Probably not all that useful but in different stages of this you could use a different coloured marker each time you make changes to not get confused easily. Great video though.
Nice to see you have your quality controlling feline doing the same as mine when tackling this :D
It's funny how they put the brakes on when the wet material is on the floor. Just won't walk on it. Thanks for watching.
Couldnt you use self leveling compound after u take out the high points
I could not, my floor was way high on one side. Leveling it was out of the question. My only option was to flatten it so the flooring would lay flat. Thanks for watching.
@@detroitdiy because you’re making the floor flat not level . The floor is technically at a slope
Exactly, thanks for watching.
Could use it, but as a filler, not to "make it level" but to make it flat.
A seemingly never ending 23 minute video to describe what should have been done in 4 minutes. Bring a lunch and go to the bathroom before watching or LIBERALLY skip ahead like I did.
Very slick!was the level figured out the box as reccomend!? Little bullseye target, vertical walls, math ect.?
Yes the level was configured as recommended, my floor was to unlevel to correct it. I was shooting for flat. So working off of a vertical wall didn't have any relevance for me. Thanks for watching.
What if the laser device sits on the floor cross?
Not sure what you mean. Move it acroos the room?
say hi to kid rock from Georgia. go Dawgs
Apples, Carrots, Peaches, and Tomatoes.
Settling and sagging is one thing, but building something so off is inexcusable.
It puts the lotion on its skin
I've got a headache
Really, you made a rule? You do know you can get those at home depo....
thats a lot of work... Id just roll some marbels to see where thed collect
Might work!
Why doesn't anyone use water when they're grinding concrete indoors? There must be something I'm missing.
If it's about water getting into the grinder I think you can just use a gfci outlet or extension cord and just keep adding a little water at a time to the floor
I personally don't use water because I have found the cement paste to be way harder to clean up than the dust. Also the paste splatters on everything, if it gets behind the plastic on cabinets or other things it is abrasive to clean off. Hope this helps.
Too complicated to me.
Most $300-400 laser levels are only accurate to +\- 1/8” which is too much of a variation for tiling and floating floors.
So then what's the best alternative? Lot of times I'll use an 8 ft level and run it in all areas on the floor to see where I'm at.
@@bartseller8601It depends. If a floor is off some, say quite a bit, in considering the fix.. if you use lots of self leveler, it's going to self level... in other words, you might want to make your floor flat, but, the leveler can make it "level" so NOT flat to the unleveled flooring.
You ASSUMED?!!!!
I wanted to clarify with globe earther about their beliefs about this world shape together with civil engineering. See what their answer about water level in oder to get the building stand straight 90° 🤣