The reason I follow you is because you do actual testing and provide objective, repeatable results. There are people all over the internet making all kinds of claims about various products but only rarely do they actually provide evidence for it. If I'm going to spend my own money for something, I want to be reasonably sure it will achieve what I want.
Thank you for the comment, we appreciate it. We don't understand why other companies don't do testing of parts...but we will only put parts on our site that we run on our own bikes...and how can we do that without verifying the results we think we are experiencing by the seat of our pants? btw, there have been more than a few parts that we thought were the cats meow...UNTIL we tested them and found out differently...they went in the "Pile" and never showed up on our site.
I have the PV also from FuelMoto and after I autotuned for 5 sessions I sent the map to them and they tweaked it a little more, sent it back to me and I loaded it and the bike ran great!! Now I just changed to a 2 into 1 and will do the same thing again this Spring once the weather gets better.
Peter, I also have a power vision tuner that I bought from Fuel Moto with the pre- download canned map. I've been a little nervous too mess with auto tune function as bike runs better than stock , just adding high flow filter & rush mufflers. In your opinion is it easy to do auto tune?
@@anthonyjake9939 yes it is easy to do but you need to do several sessions adding each session and saving to the canned map. The PV will ask you to save session in a new slot and you just keep adding your sessions to that same slot. Don't worry about messing up the canned map because you can always go back and load. that map.
Thanks Guys! I'm new to the world of Harley's, and your videos have been extremely helpful. I really like how you explain things, so easy to understand!
As usual, excellent video. Thank you. Have to admit the PowerVision AutoTune process has been very frustrating for me. 2016 Harley 103 Triglide, stage one, with 106,000 miles. Had it dyno’d when I bought it new. Started using the AutoTune feature last year to hopefully improve performance and fuel economy. After performing the AutoTune about 12 times my performance and fuel economy is still all over the place. Went on a 1,200 mile ride a few weeks ago and my fuel economy Very erratic. Riding through the desert from Las Vegas to Fallon Nevada at about 70 mph (3,100 rpm) one tank was 22 miles per gallon while other times I averaged about 28 mpg. Performance also wasn’t satisfactory in that on level ground in 6th with zero head wind I cannot reach 100 mph when passing a line of trucks. Lol. My problem might be to force myself to AutoTune the way I actually ride and not as if I was running on a drag strip. Thanks again for your wonderful videos.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thank you for the comment. Yeah, it can be hard to ride like normal when you know you are doing an autotune run. Been there. 😀 Erratic MPG is likely due to changing riding conditions, & possibly different fuel qualities. Don't know what else you've done to the Tri-Glide, but if you have not cooled it down, it is likely that it is getting "tired". Here are a couple of videos you may find useful- th-cam.com/video/2YrM7f321JE/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
I have been tuning with PV for years, great results with NB or WB sensors. I have retuned a lot of bikes done earlier by people just using a canned tune that havent run very well. Also people that do dyno tuning can make the mistake of not tuning the bike through all its paces. A WOT Peak power tune is not that helpful for most people.
I have an FP3 gathering dust in a drawer somewhere, my motor was never able to run right no matter how many times V&H changed it for me. I got the PV from Fuel Moto and it runs much better. But I am going to upgrade to the Target Tune very soon. My head pipe will accept the wide band sensors so I hit need an extra 500 bucks. 😆
Great information. I have the power vision pv-3b, i will run autotune soon weather get a little better, but thanks ,i watch your videos, and are really good ones,
Both DK and Powervision are great products. I did the powervision last year and it worked great. Last week I did the Outlaw 606 and the 2 of them together are awesome!
Good morning, well I have installed the Transformer, 828 air cleaner, Floorboard extenders, Tank lift, water pump upgrade, and the Dyno Jet. Can't wait to see how she runs with the AT., I'll fill you in later on the outcome. Thanks for all the tips and little goodies! Ride Safe
@@DKCustomProducts Well I put in the tune that came with the Dyno Jet. It was very smooth and could tell the difference in power for sure. However, at idle it was very ruff, going to take it out today and do a AT and see if it smooth's out at idle. I'll let you know later. Thanks again for all the tips good stuff...
@@DKCustomProducts Not sure what I did wrong today but I started out recording the ride and after about an hour I tried to save it and it failed? I'll try again Sunday; I'm going on a fishing trip early tomorrow morning. I't's nice being retired. It also was 15 deg. cooler today and ran smoother at idle. I'll give another try and if I can't get it, I'll reach out to you. Thanks, I Love the new add On's.
@@timpotter6332 Glad you are enjoying the new add on's, AND retirement. Before doing your next autotune run, take a look at these videos- th-cam.com/video/l1fppB5rSYo/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/y-x9NcQ5TWc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/5pKjm-OvE1Y/w-d-xo.html You may find them helpful
When you guys speak of heat, are you talking about cylinder heat or oil temperature? Rode yesterday in SC. 45-65 mph, for about 1 hour. Shot both cylinders with heat gun and both were over 300 Purchased bike used recently. Only obvious upgrade is VH pipes designed for Tri Glide. I have installed the outlaw 606 and all of your suggested mods to cool the engine down. Will be installing the tune, Power Vision today. May or may not have had a tune. I do not know the history of the bike. 2013 tri glide. 10.000 miles. Also running to oil coolers. Factory and DK . No lowers installed at the moment. I remove them in the summer heat. 20-50 Lucas oil.
We are talking about engine temps! If you are installing the Power Vision you will have a much more accurate way of getting the temperature. Heat Guns if not used correctly will give false readings. You can see a video on that subject here - th-cam.com/video/afgon9Qc1B8/w-d-xo.html Thank you for commenting! MB
Thanks for uploading the video. Interesting you make the point that you should ride like you ride rather than ALL the other videos which make mention of trying to fill in every single cell in the tune. You make mention of temperature lowering by tuning. Is there a significant correlation between lower temps and more power ( useable ). I get that fuel charge being colder in carb engines is generally a good thing but the same here ?
Yes, why try to fill in every cell? There may be many cells that are never used in your particular riding style and conditions. Just ride like you normally do, and any cell that is not optimum for your riding style will be filled in. That is why many folks have a "Summer Tune" and a "Winter Tune". This is because conditions are likely different and a tune for those differences is beneficial. YES, HD engines run better when cooler. We have a written report on the subject here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/sleeper-performance-mods.htm And a video (that is part of a series on temps) on it here- th-cam.com/video/a4rHFTZAw8M/w-d-xo.html
Been running a FP3 with Vance and Hines Pro Pipe with a high flow air filter on a 2012 FLHTK . I just downloaded the tune for the setup. Bike runs good but I have been thinking about running auto tune just have not done it. I also have your external breather system installed.
Thanks for the comment. 👍 I believe you will enjoy the benefits from running a few auto tunes. If, for some reason you don't, you can always revert to the tune you are currently running.
Yes, multiple licenses can be purchased for on Power Vision unit. I have a PV that is my '19, and prior to that it was on my '14 and prior to that it was on my '11.
I have a power vision with a canned map sent too me from Fuel Moto. Bike runs well , but after watching you guys today I might hook up that P.V. Tuner and perform auto tune function. Should I leave bike in auto tune mode for a few hours ride , or all day ride for best auto tune results? P.V. basic features seem pretty user friendly, I think I can manage without jacking up my canned map....lol. right?
If I was riding all day, or for a few hours, I would do 45-60 minutes, then save the tune and run it. Then do another autotune to build on the previous one. Keep doing that until you are not experiencing anymore improvement. If you don't like the results of the autotune, you can easily revert to your original canned map.
The auto tune feature only gives you part of the map. It’s only as good as the o2 sensors are. Most bikes come with narrow band oxygen sensors. To get the most out of auto tune you need a tuner that works with wide band o2 sensors.
This is true. Autotune with Wide Band Sensors provides even more of a benefit than the basic auto tune. But that does not take away from how good of an improvement you can get with the free autotune feature that comes with the PV and FP3/4 And fortunately the most help in the tune is needed in the OEM sensor range (closed loop). You may like this video- th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html
Auto tune is just tuning through temp timing and O2 sensors along with throttle position. The reason for so many squares and areas is because of different inputs. It do snt really matter how you ride it when you have the auto tune on because it will only tune on those inputs for the table. Y'all should know this. A complete tune will have all the areas tuned not just standard riding areas.
There is actually a bit more that auto-tune uses. Here is a video that you may find interesting/useful- th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html Also the reason to ride it like you normally do, with the gas you normally use, is that there are so many variables...everyone's style of riding and temp/humidity, gas quality, terrain conditions, and more, that it makes sense to tune for their specific situation. This is one of the reasons why so many folks have a "summer tune" and a "winter tune", because there is such a large difference in an ideal tune for cooler weather than warmer weather, and for winter blend fuel than summer blend fuel. Also, in watching the above video, you will see that the ECM has what HD calls "Adaptive Learning" and what almost all the rest of the industry calls LTFT (Long Term Fuel Trim). This is where the open loop part of the tune is modified but what changes are made in the closed loop tuning. All that said, a great dyno tune will produce great results, But if you do it in the summer, then to keep getting great results you have to do it again in the winter. And if you change anything significant on your bike, you have to get it dyno tuned again....that last 5-10% of performance that you get from a great dyno tune over an autotune has to be worth the hundreds of dollars to you for each dynotune...otherwise doing an autotune only "costs" the time for you to go out and ride.
@@DKCustomProducts the auto won't tune for any input that you don't give it. So if you just ride around like normal and use the inputs you won't have the correct tune when you need it and leaves the ECU to learn instead of it being correct when you need it. They leave the open spots on the map for you to tune for a reason. Just my two cents
@@leonsumrall524 Yes, that is true. Which is why, over a period of time you should do autotunes to cover all possible riding scenarios. There is NO DOUBT, that if you can afford a good dyno tuner, and he is having a good day, you will get the best tune that way. Agree with you 100%.
Good info ... I just had my dealer install S&S 475 cam package. They are installing Power Vision. Will they Auto Tune it after install according to the technician's test ride ??
Impossible to know if they will auto tune it or not. Technically they will not. HD dealerships are not supposed to put good tunes (non epa compliant) on a HD, but many do.
What if i dont have any o2 sensors on my bike? I have a fuel injected 2004 TC88 road king. Can i still do auto tune? I will be putting in a fueling 525 camchest kit, 606 air cleaner and hollowing out the stock pipes and putting in TTI's.
Unfortunately, if you do not have an o2 sensor you can not auto tune your bike, but you can get a tuner with a tune for your set up. The Power Vision is a great tuner with real time data and you can make adjustments to the tune if needed. You can see the Power Vision at this link - www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm Please feel free to reach out with any questions; Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828 Thank you for commenting! MB
I think it’s worth noting the difference between the autotune that you describe in this video with powervision/fp3, and autotune that is automatically correcting AFR via wideband o2 sensors like with a ThunderMax. I think the correct name for the powervision/fp3 autotune feature should be “automatic custom tune”. I mean, after that tune is saved, there is no more tuning happening while riding. “Autotune” is a misnomer in that sense. Automatic AFR adjusting is true automatic tuning and should correctly be referred to as autotune - it’s always on and always making tuning adjustments.
Some people really like the Thunder Max, and others have endless problems out of them. Since it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, (50/50 is being a little on the nice side), we have not messed with them at all. You are correct that the Thunder max does tune constantly, and the Power Vision alone does not. However, if you get the Power Vision and Target Tune, it also tunes constantly, you still get to monitor your gauges and everything else in real time (you cannot with the Thunder max), and we have not heard of a complaint with that combination. Target Tune Link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-target-tune-for-the-power-vision-harley-efi-tuner-dk-pv-tt.htm
Thunder max does not change AFR automatically. It will only change VE tables automatically to hit your set AFR. You still have to manually input AFR to your set up.
The only benefit there could be ,with running both, would be if your tuner is not giving you enough fuel enrichment then the addition of the iED certainly will. The power vision should good you enough fuel enrichment. You can see more about the power vision at this link - www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm Please feel free to contact us with any questions; Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828 Thank you for commenting! MB
Yes, both comparisons were with the Power Vision with narrow band sensors...which do have an positive affect in Open Loop also, as shown in the video linked below. th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html There is no doubt that you can get an even better tune with wide band sensors, and if one is looking to squeeze every bit of available power out of their particular build, that is the way to go...but for most, the extra cost is not worth the extra bit of power. That said, I am running wideband with the Target Tune on my 1250 build, and the increase in POWER and MPG is quite a bit of fun!
Is it recommended to repeat the auto tune and continue flashing over previous auto tunes to incrementally improve overall performance in various riding conditions?
Yes, that is a good practice. Do it until there are no more significant changes. KP Also, many folks do this during the winter, and then again during the summer. Saving each final tune separately. That way they have a "summer" tune and a "winter tune". KP
Hey gents. Great video. I put on a set of 3" slash tips and Ness big sucker stage one and installed the canned tune for the FP3. Started the bike and it was shaking way more than when stock. Is this normal? Would an auto tune fix this issue? 2012 Superglide custom 96ci.
Without being with the bike it is hard to know why there is increased shaking. First things I would look at are the tune, and intake or exhaust leaks...also, maybe one of the exhausts is not bolted down well? The right canned tune for your set up should not cause more shaking. Once you have it back to "normal" shaking, then I would run the autotune. I would not run an autotune when something else seems wrong.
Dynomtuners dont pick at the auto tune not being auto, they pick at it because of the charts you showed. She’s are spiked and don’t really do a good job especially with the narrow band sensor not even mentioned in this video.
The PV will auto tune with wide band sensors. Just did it a couple of weeks ago on my M8. What you say about dynotuners picking on autotune may be correct, however, we have heard from more than a few and their complaint was as stated in the video.
When you say 230 for twin cam do you mean oil temp? My 07 runs about 240 oil temp is this too high? I am Already running your tank lift kit and external breather system
No, he is talking about the engine temperature. For a Twin Cam Engine Temperature 230° F everyday warm weather riding, with no more than 240° F in extreme circumstances. But, your oil should not be over 230° either. Oil that has gotten too hot will not lubricate as well. You can see a 2 part written report on Why and How To Cool Down Your Twin Cam and M8 at these links - www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm Part 2 www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-your-twin-cam-engine-part-ii-dk-cl-tc-dn-2.htm Here is a full video playlist on Why and How to cool down your Twin Cam and M8 that you may find useful/interesting - th-cam.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html Also, you may find another video we have done on what we measure regarding temps interesting. Here is a link to it- th-cam.com/video/dBmOolo-Qwo/w-d-xo.html Please feel free to contact us with any questions; Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828 Thank you for commenting! MB
Love watching your all’s videos with great information. Question,How many times can you Run auto tune off of a base map?? With a powervision, I ran auto tune quite a few times and my bike actually ran worse after my last auto tune session but got better and better the sessions before. I know you can overwrite tunes on the PV, but can you overwrite autotunes the same??
What you did was good...run as many as you need, as long as it keeps running better and better...when the improvement stops, or gets worse, don't do anymore. After running an auto-tune you should be saving it in a slot so that you can go back to it. Yes, you can overwrite anything that you save in a slot. Another way to know when it is time to stop autotuning is when there are no, or very few cells (displayed on the PV screen when autotuning) being changed during an auto tune run.
Hey guys, the auto tune on the PowerVision seems like the real deal. Making changes for various conditions sounds like a snap. Cooler temps with low humidity, higher temps with high humidity, even dealing with totally different altitude when touring other parts of the country. Still contemplating on pulling the trigger on a P.V. or trying a V.I.E.D. option. What are your thoughts?
Depends on what bike you have, and what mods you have done...depending on what you've done, the Vied's may work very well or may not be enough. Also depends on what you may want to do in the future, as far as mods. Another factor is, do you want to get every last bit of available power. Please feel free to email or call us with any questions. Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828
Hey guys, love your content.! I am a relatively new Harley owner living in the UK, I have done the usual servicing and checks (cam chain tensioners) and all is looking good, the bike is a 06 street glide with a stage one, am looking to buy a hi flow air filter with breather kit off you and possibly an powervison autotuner, can you recommend a UK supplier or would you be good shipping to the UK? Ps: I have nothing to compare it too but the bike runs like a dream as far as I can tell, maybe I need to test ride a few more..?
Thanks man. Glad to hear you are liking the videos. Congrats on your first Harley!!! We ship world-wide and almost everyday we have 1-3 orders shipped to the UK. We also have a dealer there, www.hccustomonline.co.uk/collections/all but I believe Covid has taken a big toll on them...they do not currently have much inventory. Feel free to order directly from us. Use this link to get a discount on the items you're looking for - www.dkcustomproducts.com/ultimate-bagger-performance.htm Also, feed free to email us with an question. Support@DKCustomProducts.com
Oil max temp should be 230F on all bikes. Twin Cam ET (Engine Temp) should be max 230F M8 ET (Engine Temp) should be max 260F We have a video with all those number that you can reference to...at about the 1:09 minute mark th-cam.com/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/w-d-xo.html
So, on Texas it's been hitting 100-110 degrees and I ride every day. I do about 5 miles on the highway and then hit 5 lights over the next 5 miles, then 20 miles on the highway on my way back home during the hottest part of the day. My bike is tuned, but regularly hits 300-305 before I get back on the highway and then it'll drop down to 285 or so. Is that excessively high for a 107 Street Bob or pretty normal?
That is too hot. Here are two videos that specifically address that subject- th-cam.com/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/w-d-xo.html and this is a dyno run showing what happens at 270 F on an M8- th-cam.com/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/w-d-xo.html and one with Dyno charts- th-cam.com/video/B1HF2ZkWESw/w-d-xo.html
Vance and Hines said with the FP3 that with their maps an autotune isn’t necessary after matching your bike with the exhausts they have listed. However after watching your video am I correct in saying that everyone rides differently and you should autotune anyways to dial your bike to the way you ride?
I believe you will enjoy the benefits from running a few auto tunes. If, for some reason you don't, you can always revert to the tune you are currently running, but the auto tune should only improve with your riding style if you ride like you normally do. Thank you for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB
it doesnt do a complete tune. A auto tune only adjust air fuel ratio. It doesnt adjust timing. Timing is part of a tune. Thats why people say it doesnt automatically tune the bike.
True. Most of the time when starting with a good base, and then doing an autotune for the AFR, not much is needed in the way of changes for timing. However, that is not always the case and then logging would need to be done and timing changed as needed. Thanks for pointing that out.
You can use the same Power Vision Hardware (depending on what years your bikes are, you may need a different cable for each one). HOWEVER, you will need to pay dynojet an extra $219 for a second license.
If I buy a new Harley road king or street glide and I buy a V&H fuel pak 3, but not a performance air filter or exhaust, can I improve fuel efficiency? A tuner and no aftermarket intake/air filter and exhaust barely sounds like a stage 1.
You may be able to squeak out an extra .5 to 1 mpg with just a tuner. Thankfully the M8's are getting a little better MPG from the factory than the Twin Cams. They are also not too lean like the Twin Cams. You may like this video- th-cam.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipmsh/w-d-xo.htmlttps://th-cam.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/w-d-xo.html
Yes. We have not seen a bike that has an OEM tune or canned tune that did not benefit from an auto-tune. You should see a slight increase in MPG (between .5 and 1.5) and 10* or so less heat.
So when you say ride normally I get that is there any point in going wide open throttle on auto tune because when you go wide open throttle doesn’t it go into open loop ? (No ecm control all fuel for full throttle)
When in autotune the PV does rewrite the VE tables, at all throttle positions. Here is a video that shows how the ECM works, including the adaptive learning it has (which is a different than the autotune, but thought you may be interested) th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html
Autotune basic will not write to anything past the capability of the stock o2 sensor. If you want to write to anything past 14.4 afr parts of the map you would need the autotune pro version which comes with wide band o2 sensor. There is a difference
Some folks really like the Thundermax, and others have had endless challenges with them. Because it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, we have not messed with them at all.
I just installed one on my bike and I love it but the new power vision is pretty nice too from what I've heard. In my opinion you can't go wrong with either one
Yes, you can AFTER you get a base map for that Stage II on a Power Vision linked below. However, the PV4 does NOT have auto tune capability right now. www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
Some people really like the Thunder Max, and others have endless problems out of them. Since it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, (50/50 is being a little on the nice side), we have not messed with them at all. Thanks for commenting! MB
Thundermax worked well for me, and a few other people I know that use them. Only one guy I know had a problem, and it was his fault. He didn't want to spend the money on switching over to wide band o2 sensors. I've put it on three bikes, and will be putting it on my 4th. Along with an ultracool oil cooler. I'll also add that one of the guys I know got the thundermax kit that converts an Evo to efi, and he loves it.
No, it cannot. You must get at least a generic tune for that particular cam, then you dial it in with autotune. Look at the following link, you can get a pre-programmed tune for most any cam, and double warranty, w/ your PV. www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
On 2017+ models, any changes to the power plant that are not EPS approved have the potential of voiding the warranty. Here are our thoughts on the subject- th-cam.com/video/p8U4XsHyBug/w-d-xo.html
No, not specifically. Within the PV and FP3/4 menus are a decel enleanment feature that can help with that. You can see a video on it here- th-cam.com/video/I_djBYYYu28/w-d-xo.html Also, Thunder Torque Inserts™ will give you more low and mid range power, and also help get rid of decel pop. More info on them here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57-267.htm
@@TheXcr800dude Well, that sorta depends on who is doing the dyno tune. Unfortunately the majority of "techs" running the dyno at dealerships turn out some pretty mediocre tunes. Here is a video on that subject- th-cam.com/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/w-d-xo.html
That would not be a good idea, when it is in autotune it "detuned" a bit for the process to work...and you only get the benefit of the autotune once you have finished it and flashed it to the ECM. But you can do autotune as often as you want. Many guys, myself included, have one autotune map that we run during the warmer months, and another autotune map we run during the colder months. (many areas of the country have different gasoline blends they run during the colder months, so it is not a bad idea to have a different tune (map) for those times.
@@motoring8407 I've never been there, but we hear that a lot from our Australian Customers. I think you are going from the "hotter" season to the "hot" right about now?
I bought an FP3 and I would’ve liked to of gotten a Dyno tune, but where I live, you’re gonna pay 900 bucks for that dyno tune…… why is getting a Dino tune so stinking expensive?
Dyno tuning is done with an expensive machine, usually in an expensive building, and insurance is high also. Additionally, IF the human doing the dyno tuning is going to produce a great tune, they are going to have to spend 2-4 hours on the dyno with your bike.
You have to cross reference your year and model against dynojet t9 verify. I believe you would need the autotune pro version you would have to add o2 bungs to existing exhaust or get new exhaust with bungs already welded in. Depending on model they go down to 2001 years
Last time we looked you could only autotune with the PV4 if you added the Target Tune Module. We do not like the PV3 or PV4. We have a good supply of the Power Vision that has autotune capability and a touch screen for ease of use and to double as a gauge display. You can see it here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
We like it better. The FuelPak works quite well for Stage I's and many Stage II's, but for a III or IV it will not work. You can see a fuller description of each at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/efi-tuners-c74-262.htm
Those guys at Hammer performance they swear by the power of visions and they don’t sell anything else and they are nothing but a performance shop things to make your bike go faster a lot faster so I would stick with PowerVision they don’t even really wanna fool with anybody with the FP3
Watching tony cox on TH-cam hammer sent him all the actual values to type in on the FP3 because he didn’t go with the power vision and far as I know bike ran fine
No, the PV does not display hp/tq. Other devices, like the FP3/FP4 that do display them, the numbers displayed are derived or calculated numbers, not particularly accurate.
Yeah because most of these bikes are are running to lean and if you run the auto tune it will run fatter up or in rich the fuel the amount of it it will cause it to runs cooler
That is true of Twin Cams and Sportys. The M8's are not too lean with the OEM tune. You can see a video on that here- th-cam.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/w-d-xo.html And a written report on it here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
Some folks really like the Thundermax, and others have had endless challenges with them. Because it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, we have not messed with them at all.
@@DKCustomProducts I am not happy. My bike ran perfect and I had s&s 509 cams installed in my 2004 tc 88 along with the thundermax. It backfires hard on decel and often coughs through the breather when starting from a stop or rev matching on downshifting. On top of this I’ve lost 10 mpg.
@@jeffwalker1322 Man, sorry to hear that. But that is why we do not mess with the Thundermax. Some have a great experience with it, then others, like yourself, not so much.
Here is why. Below is an exchange we had with someone who asked the same question. "Jeff Walker 1 month ago What about the Thundermax ? DKCustomProducts 1 month ago Some folks really like the Thundermax, and others have had endless challenges with them. Because it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, we have not messed with them at all. Jeff Walker 1 month ago @DKCustomProducts installing S&S 509 cams and a thundermax in my TC 88 right now. Hoping tor the best DKCustomProducts 1 month ago @Jeff Walker Wishing you many miles of smiles with your new set up! Jeff Walker 18 hours ago @DKCustomProducts I am not happy. My bike ran perfect and I had s&s 509 cams installed in my 2004 tc 88 along with the thundermax. It backfires hard on decel and often coughs through the breather when starting from a stop or rev matching on downshifting. On top of this I’ve lost 10 mpg. DKCustomProducts 1 second ago @Jeff Walker Man, sorry to hear that. But that is why we do not mess with the Thundermax. Some have a great experience with it, then others, like yourself, not so much.
@@DKCustomProducts ok.... backfiring on deceleration is usually a leak either at the heads to pipes or the O2 sensors. I'm betting the tech didn't properly seat the O2 sensors. They are Bosch usually and need to be torqued properly.
@@DKCustomProducts avoided. If it's coughing through acceleration then it's probably the base map being wrong and probably too rich with the mpg loss. I got 20k miles on my Tmax and I just don't have those problems. And it adjusted to your breather system within 15 minutes of riding. Thanks. This wasn't the first horror story I've heard. But they all seem similar.
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The reason I follow you is because you do actual testing and provide objective, repeatable results. There are people all over the internet making all kinds of claims about various products but only rarely do they actually provide evidence for it. If I'm going to spend my own money for something, I want to be reasonably sure it will achieve what I want.
Thank you for the comment, we appreciate it.
We don't understand why other companies don't do testing of parts...but we will only put parts on our site that we run on our own bikes...and how can we do that without verifying the results we think we are experiencing by the seat of our pants?
btw, there have been more than a few parts that we thought were the cats meow...UNTIL we tested them and found out differently...they went in the "Pile" and never showed up on our site.
I have the PV also from FuelMoto and after I autotuned for 5 sessions I sent the map to them and they tweaked it a little more, sent it back to me and I loaded it and the bike ran great!! Now I just changed to a 2 into 1 and will do the same thing again this Spring once the weather gets better.
Peter, I also have a power vision tuner that I bought from Fuel Moto with the pre- download canned map. I've been a little nervous too mess with auto tune function as bike runs better than stock , just adding high flow filter & rush mufflers. In your opinion is it easy to do auto tune?
@@anthonyjake9939 yes it is easy to do but you need to do several sessions adding each session and saving to the canned map. The PV will ask you to save session in a new slot and you just keep adding your sessions to that same slot. Don't worry about messing up the canned map because you can always go back and load. that map.
Great information and advice! 👍
Good deal!
Thanks Guys! I'm new to the world of Harley's, and your videos have been extremely helpful. I really like how you explain things, so easy to understand!
Welcome to the Harley world! Glad you are liking the videos.
Thanks for commenting! 👍😎👍
As usual, excellent video. Thank you. Have to admit the PowerVision AutoTune process has been very frustrating for me. 2016 Harley 103 Triglide, stage one, with 106,000 miles. Had it dyno’d when I bought it new. Started using the AutoTune feature last year to hopefully improve performance and fuel economy. After performing the AutoTune about 12 times my performance and fuel economy is still all over the place. Went on a 1,200 mile ride a few weeks ago and my fuel economy Very erratic. Riding through the desert from Las Vegas to Fallon Nevada at about 70 mph (3,100 rpm) one tank was 22 miles per gallon while other times I averaged about 28 mpg. Performance also wasn’t satisfactory in that on level ground in 6th with zero head wind I cannot reach 100 mph when passing a line of trucks. Lol. My problem might be to force myself to AutoTune the way I actually ride and not as if I was running on a drag strip. Thanks again for your wonderful videos.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thank you for the comment.
Yeah, it can be hard to ride like normal when you know you are doing an autotune run. Been there. 😀
Erratic MPG is likely due to changing riding conditions, & possibly different fuel qualities.
Don't know what else you've done to the Tri-Glide, but if you have not cooled it down, it is likely that it is getting "tired".
Here are a couple of videos you may find useful-
th-cam.com/video/2YrM7f321JE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
I have been tuning with PV for years, great results with NB or WB sensors. I have retuned a lot of bikes done earlier by people just using a canned tune that havent run very well. Also people that do dyno tuning can make the mistake of not tuning the bike through all its paces. A WOT Peak power tune is not that helpful for most people.
Glad you are liking your PV, I like mine as well!
Thanks for the information and commenting! 👍😎👍
Auto tune sounds awesome, thanks for letting us know how to do it properly.
👍
I have an FP3 gathering dust in a drawer somewhere, my motor was never able to run right no matter how many times V&H changed it for me.
I got the PV from Fuel Moto and it runs much better. But I am going to upgrade to the Target Tune very soon. My head pipe will accept the wide band sensors so I hit need an extra 500 bucks. 😆
Our next video is about the Target Tune. It is a nice upgrade for sure!
Great information. I have the power vision pv-3b, i will run autotune soon weather get a little better, but thanks ,i watch your videos, and are really good ones,
Sounds like you are ready to tune that engine! Glad you are liking the videos!! Thank you for commenting! 👍MB
Definitely going with Power Vision. When I do air filter/slip ons. Good video, I trust your observations on this subject.
Thanks for watching and your comment. 👍
You will be happy you did.
Both DK and Powervision are great products. I did the powervision last year and it worked great. Last week I did the Outlaw 606 and the 2 of them together are awesome!
@@streetsean Thank you for the kind words. We appreciate your business and glad to hear you are enjoying the parts. 👍
Good info as usual, The Power Vision is the best money going, My 17 M8 was living proof Thanks D K Customs
Hey Jack! Thanks for the comment, we appreciate it. 👍
Great video. Just installed the 606 last week and did the canned tune and had great results, waiting for warmer weather to do the Autotune.
Thank you for the comment, and we appreciate your business.
Good to hear you are enjoying the parts. Your autotune runs will make it even better. 👍
Good morning, well I have installed the Transformer, 828 air cleaner, Floorboard extenders, Tank lift, water pump upgrade, and the Dyno Jet. Can't wait to see how she runs with the AT., I'll fill you in later on the outcome. Thanks for all the tips and little goodies! Ride Safe
Very cool, sounds like you are getting her set up how you want.
Thank you for your business, we appreciate it.
Wishing you many miles of smiles!
@@DKCustomProducts Well I put in the tune that came with the Dyno Jet. It was very smooth and could tell the difference in power for sure. However, at idle it was very ruff, going to take it out today and do a AT and see if it smooth's out at idle. I'll let you know later. Thanks again for all the tips good stuff...
@@timpotter6332 That is great on feeling the smooth extra power. If you do not get the idle smoothed our after riding, give us a call or email,,
@@DKCustomProducts Not sure what I did wrong today but I started out recording the ride and after about an hour I tried to save it and it failed? I'll try again Sunday; I'm going on a fishing trip early tomorrow morning. I't's nice being retired. It also was 15 deg. cooler today and ran smoother at idle. I'll give another try and if I can't get it, I'll reach out to you. Thanks, I Love the new add On's.
@@timpotter6332 Glad you are enjoying the new add on's, AND retirement. Before doing your next autotune run, take a look at these videos-
th-cam.com/video/l1fppB5rSYo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/y-x9NcQ5TWc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/5pKjm-OvE1Y/w-d-xo.html
You may find them helpful
When you guys speak of heat, are you talking about cylinder heat or oil temperature? Rode yesterday in SC. 45-65 mph, for about 1 hour. Shot both cylinders with heat gun and both were over 300 Purchased bike used recently. Only obvious upgrade is VH pipes designed for Tri Glide. I have installed the outlaw 606 and all of your suggested mods to cool the engine down. Will be installing the tune, Power Vision today. May or may not have had a tune. I do not know the history of the bike. 2013 tri glide. 10.000 miles. Also running to oil coolers. Factory and DK . No lowers installed at the moment. I remove them in the summer heat. 20-50 Lucas oil.
We are talking about engine temps! If you are installing the Power Vision you will have a much more accurate way of getting the temperature. Heat Guns if not used correctly will give false readings. You can see a video on that subject here - th-cam.com/video/afgon9Qc1B8/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for commenting! MB
Thanks for uploading the video. Interesting you make the point that you should ride like you ride rather than ALL the other videos which make mention of trying to fill in every single cell in the tune.
You make mention of temperature lowering by tuning. Is there a significant correlation between lower temps and more power ( useable ). I get that fuel charge being colder in carb engines is generally a good thing but the same here ?
Yes, why try to fill in every cell? There may be many cells that are never used in your particular riding style and conditions.
Just ride like you normally do, and any cell that is not optimum for your riding style will be filled in.
That is why many folks have a "Summer Tune" and a "Winter Tune". This is because conditions are likely different and a tune for those differences is beneficial.
YES, HD engines run better when cooler. We have a written report on the subject here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/sleeper-performance-mods.htm
And a video (that is part of a series on temps) on it here- th-cam.com/video/a4rHFTZAw8M/w-d-xo.html
Been running a FP3 with Vance and Hines Pro Pipe with a high flow air filter on a 2012 FLHTK . I just downloaded the tune for the setup. Bike runs good but I have been thinking about running auto tune just have not done it. I also have your external breather system installed.
Thanks for the comment. 👍
I believe you will enjoy the benefits from running a few auto tunes. If, for some reason you don't, you can always revert to the tune you are currently running.
Power vision is also capable of tuning multiple bikes .... that alone is a great selling point
Yes, multiple licenses can be purchased for on Power Vision unit.
I have a PV that is my '19, and prior to that it was on my '14 and prior to that it was on my '11.
I have a power vision with a canned map sent too me from Fuel Moto. Bike runs well , but after watching you guys today I might hook up that P.V. Tuner and perform auto tune function. Should I leave bike in auto tune mode for a few hours ride , or all day ride for best auto tune results? P.V. basic features seem pretty user friendly, I think I can manage without jacking up my canned map....lol. right?
If I was riding all day, or for a few hours, I would do 45-60 minutes, then save the tune and run it. Then do another autotune to build on the previous one. Keep doing that until you are not experiencing anymore improvement.
If you don't like the results of the autotune, you can easily revert to your original canned map.
Love my FP3 but haven't ran autotune yet. Perhaps I should.
Thanks guys!
Glad you're liking your FP3.
Thanks for the comment! 👍
The auto tune feature only gives you part of the map. It’s only as good as the o2 sensors are. Most bikes come with narrow band oxygen sensors. To get the most out of auto tune you need a tuner that works with wide band o2 sensors.
This is true. Autotune with Wide Band Sensors provides even more of a benefit than the basic auto tune. But that does not take away from how good of an improvement you can get with the free autotune feature that comes with the PV and FP3/4
And fortunately the most help in the tune is needed in the OEM sensor range (closed loop).
You may like this video- th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the information, keep up with the great work guys.
Thanks, will do!
Appreciate your comment. 👍
Auto tune is just tuning through temp timing and O2 sensors along with throttle position. The reason for so many squares and areas is because of different inputs. It do snt really matter how you ride it when you have the auto tune on because it will only tune on those inputs for the table. Y'all should know this. A complete tune will have all the areas tuned not just standard riding areas.
There is actually a bit more that auto-tune uses. Here is a video that you may find interesting/useful- th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html
Also the reason to ride it like you normally do, with the gas you normally use, is that there are so many variables...everyone's style of riding and temp/humidity, gas quality, terrain conditions, and more, that it makes sense to tune for their specific situation.
This is one of the reasons why so many folks have a "summer tune" and a "winter tune", because there is such a large difference in an ideal tune for cooler weather than warmer weather, and for winter blend fuel than summer blend fuel.
Also, in watching the above video, you will see that the ECM has what HD calls "Adaptive Learning" and what almost all the rest of the industry calls LTFT (Long Term Fuel Trim). This is where the open loop part of the tune is modified but what changes are made in the closed loop tuning.
All that said, a great dyno tune will produce great results, But if you do it in the summer, then to keep getting great results you have to do it again in the winter. And if you change anything significant on your bike, you have to get it dyno tuned again....that last 5-10% of performance that you get from a great dyno tune over an autotune has to be worth the hundreds of dollars to you for each dynotune...otherwise doing an autotune only "costs" the time for you to go out and ride.
@@DKCustomProducts the auto won't tune for any input that you don't give it. So if you just ride around like normal and use the inputs you won't have the correct tune when you need it and leaves the ECU to learn instead of it being correct when you need it. They leave the open spots on the map for you to tune for a reason. Just my two cents
@@leonsumrall524 Yes, that is true. Which is why, over a period of time you should do autotunes to cover all possible riding scenarios.
There is NO DOUBT, that if you can afford a good dyno tuner, and he is having a good day, you will get the best tune that way. Agree with you 100%.
Good info ... I just had my dealer install S&S 475 cam package. They are installing Power Vision. Will they Auto Tune it after install according to the technician's test ride ??
Impossible to know if they will auto tune it or not. Technically they will not. HD dealerships are not supposed to put good tunes (non epa compliant) on a HD, but many do.
Doesn’t Harley us a Y tune? Difference?
I am sorry I do not understand your question? What is a Y tune? and what is the difference between what? MB
What if i dont have any o2 sensors on my bike? I have a fuel injected 2004 TC88 road king. Can i still do auto tune? I will be putting in a fueling 525 camchest kit, 606 air cleaner and hollowing out the stock pipes and putting in TTI's.
Unfortunately, if you do not have an o2 sensor you can not auto tune your bike, but you can get a tuner with a tune for your set up. The Power Vision is a great tuner with real time data and you can make adjustments to the tune if needed.
You can see the Power Vision at this link - www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
Please feel free to reach out with any questions;
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Thank you for commenting! MB
I think it’s worth noting the difference between the autotune that you describe in this video with powervision/fp3, and autotune that is automatically correcting AFR via wideband o2 sensors like with a ThunderMax. I think the correct name for the powervision/fp3 autotune feature should be “automatic custom tune”. I mean, after that tune is saved, there is no more tuning happening while riding. “Autotune” is a misnomer in that sense. Automatic AFR adjusting is true automatic tuning and should correctly be referred to as autotune - it’s always on and always making tuning adjustments.
Some people really like the Thunder Max, and others have endless problems out of them. Since it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, (50/50 is being a little on the nice side), we have not messed with them at all.
You are correct that the Thunder max does tune constantly, and the Power Vision alone does not.
However, if you get the Power Vision and Target Tune, it also tunes constantly, you still get to monitor your gauges and everything else in real time (you cannot with the Thunder max), and we have not heard of a complaint with that combination.
Target Tune Link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-target-tune-for-the-power-vision-harley-efi-tuner-dk-pv-tt.htm
Yeah that is true with the Target Tune - that is true autotune! Would be nice if the ThunderMax had a screen module or Bluetooth and a phone app.
Yes, agreed. 👍
Thunder max does not change AFR automatically. It will only change VE tables automatically to hit your set AFR. You still have to manually input AFR to your set up.
Hi thanks for the info. I'm currently running your XL-ViED-on a 2016 48. If I were to go to Power Vison 3, should I remove the XL-ViED ?
The only benefit there could be ,with running both, would be if your tuner is not giving you enough fuel enrichment then the addition of the iED certainly will. The power vision should good you enough fuel enrichment.
You can see more about the power vision at this link - www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
Please feel free to contact us with any questions;
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Thank you for commenting! MB
I assume this comparison was with a Power Vision, but I don't think you mention what type of O2 sensors were used
Yes, both comparisons were with the Power Vision with narrow band sensors...which do have an positive affect in Open Loop also, as shown in the video linked below.
th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html
There is no doubt that you can get an even better tune with wide band sensors, and if one is looking to squeeze every bit of available power out of their particular build, that is the way to go...but for most, the extra cost is not worth the extra bit of power.
That said, I am running wideband with the Target Tune on my 1250 build, and the increase in POWER and MPG is quite a bit of fun!
Great info; you guys rock!
Thanks so much for the comment and watching.
We appreciate your business, and glad you are enjoying our parts. 👍😎👍
Is it recommended to repeat the auto tune and continue flashing over previous auto tunes to incrementally improve overall performance in various riding conditions?
Yes, that is a good practice. Do it until there are no more significant changes. KP
Also, many folks do this during the winter, and then again during the summer. Saving each final tune separately. That way they have a "summer" tune and a "winter tune".
KP
Awesome! Thank you very much for replying and providing clarification! Much appreciated
You are most welcome! 👍😎👍 MB
My auto tune worked well on mine.
Thanks for the comment.
Good to hear you are enjoying the benefits of your auto tune. 👍
Hey gents. Great video. I put on a set of 3" slash tips and Ness big sucker stage one and installed the canned tune for the FP3. Started the bike and it was shaking way more than when stock. Is this normal? Would an auto tune fix this issue? 2012 Superglide custom 96ci.
Without being with the bike it is hard to know why there is increased shaking. First things I would look at are the tune, and intake or exhaust leaks...also, maybe one of the exhausts is not bolted down well? The right canned tune for your set up should not cause more shaking. Once you have it back to "normal" shaking, then I would run the autotune. I would not run an autotune when something else seems wrong.
Great information. Thanks guys.
Thanks for the comment. Glad you found the video useful. 👍
@@DKCustomProducts Very helpful as I just bought my first M8. 2021 Road Glide Special.
@@1Bowtieluvr Congrats on your new ride. Wishing you many miles of smiles. 👍
Dynomtuners dont pick at the auto tune not being auto, they pick at it because of the charts you showed. She’s are spiked and don’t really do a good job especially with the narrow band sensor not even mentioned in this video.
The PV will auto tune with wide band sensors. Just did it a couple of weeks ago on my M8.
What you say about dynotuners picking on autotune may be correct, however, we have heard from more than a few and their complaint was as stated in the video.
When you say 230 for twin cam do you mean oil temp? My 07 runs about 240 oil temp is this too high? I am
Already running your tank lift kit and external breather system
No, he is talking about the engine temperature. For a Twin Cam Engine Temperature 230° F everyday warm weather riding, with no more than 240° F in extreme circumstances.
But, your oil should not be over 230° either. Oil that has gotten too hot will not lubricate as well.
You can see a 2 part written report on Why and How To Cool Down Your Twin Cam and M8 at these links - www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Part 2
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-your-twin-cam-engine-part-ii-dk-cl-tc-dn-2.htm
Here is a full video playlist on Why and How to cool down your Twin Cam and M8 that you may find useful/interesting - th-cam.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
Also, you may find another video we have done on what we measure regarding temps interesting. Here is a link to it- th-cam.com/video/dBmOolo-Qwo/w-d-xo.html
Please feel free to contact us with any questions;
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Thank you for commenting! MB
@@DKCustomProducts you guys are awesome with the reply’s thank you for keeping us informed with your feedback great team dkcustoms
Glad to help! Thank you for your support and for commenting! 😎 MB
Love watching your all’s videos with great information. Question,How many times can you Run auto tune off of a base map?? With a powervision, I ran auto tune quite a few times and my bike actually ran worse after my last auto tune session but got better and better the sessions before. I know you can overwrite tunes on the PV, but can you overwrite autotunes the same??
What you did was good...run as many as you need, as long as it keeps running better and better...when the improvement stops, or gets worse, don't do anymore.
After running an auto-tune you should be saving it in a slot so that you can go back to it.
Yes, you can overwrite anything that you save in a slot.
Another way to know when it is time to stop autotuning is when there are no, or very few cells (displayed on the PV screen when autotuning) being changed during an auto tune run.
Thanks a bunch for the reply back and the great info on my question.
Thanks a bunch for the reply back and the great info on my question.
Thanks a bunch for the reply back and the great info on my question.
Thanks a bunch for the reply back and the great info on my question.
Hey guys, the auto tune on the PowerVision seems like the real deal. Making changes for various conditions sounds like a snap. Cooler temps with low humidity, higher temps with high humidity, even dealing with totally different altitude when touring other parts of the country. Still contemplating on pulling the trigger on a P.V. or trying a V.I.E.D. option. What are your thoughts?
Depends on what bike you have, and what mods you have done...depending on what you've done, the Vied's may work very well or may not be enough.
Also depends on what you may want to do in the future, as far as mods.
Another factor is, do you want to get every last bit of available power.
Please feel free to email or call us with any questions.
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Hey guys, love your content.! I am a relatively new Harley owner living in the UK, I have done the usual servicing and checks (cam chain tensioners) and all is looking good, the bike is a 06 street glide with a stage one, am looking to buy a hi flow air filter with breather kit off you and possibly an powervison autotuner, can you recommend a UK supplier or would you be good shipping to the UK?
Ps: I have nothing to compare it too but the bike runs like a dream as far as I can tell, maybe I need to test ride a few more..?
Thanks man. Glad to hear you are liking the videos. Congrats on your first Harley!!!
We ship world-wide and almost everyday we have 1-3 orders shipped to the UK.
We also have a dealer there, www.hccustomonline.co.uk/collections/all but I believe Covid has taken a big toll on them...they do not currently have much inventory.
Feel free to order directly from us. Use this link to get a discount on the items you're looking for -
www.dkcustomproducts.com/ultimate-bagger-performance.htm
Also, feed free to email us with an question.
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
Good one guys. 😎👍😎
Thank you! 👍
Hey Guys, how are you all doing... Question: When you guys say that the engine should be running around 230* is that engine temp or Oil temp? Thanks..
Oil max temp should be 230F on all bikes.
Twin Cam ET (Engine Temp) should be max 230F
M8 ET (Engine Temp) should be max 260F
We have a video with all those number that you can reference to...at about the 1:09 minute mark
th-cam.com/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/w-d-xo.html
So, on Texas it's been hitting 100-110 degrees and I ride every day. I do about 5 miles on the highway and then hit 5 lights over the next 5 miles, then 20 miles on the highway on my way back home during the hottest part of the day. My bike is tuned, but regularly hits 300-305 before I get back on the highway and then it'll drop down to 285 or so. Is that excessively high for a 107 Street Bob or pretty normal?
That is too hot.
Here are two videos that specifically address that subject-
th-cam.com/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/w-d-xo.html
and this is a dyno run showing what happens at 270 F on an M8-
th-cam.com/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/w-d-xo.html
and one with Dyno charts- th-cam.com/video/B1HF2ZkWESw/w-d-xo.html
Vance and Hines said with the FP3 that with their maps an autotune isn’t necessary after matching your bike with the exhausts they have listed. However after watching your video am I correct in saying that everyone rides differently and you should autotune anyways to dial your bike to the way you ride?
I believe you will enjoy the benefits from running a few auto tunes. If, for some reason you don't, you can always revert to the tune you are currently running, but the auto tune should only improve with your riding style if you ride like you normally do.
Thank you for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB
it doesnt do a complete tune. A auto tune only adjust air fuel ratio. It doesnt adjust timing. Timing is part of a tune. Thats why people say it doesnt automatically tune the bike.
True. Most of the time when starting with a good base, and then doing an autotune for the AFR, not much is needed in the way of changes for timing. However, that is not always the case and then logging would need to be done and timing changed as needed.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I have the screaming eagle tuner and auto tune on my 17 street glide special, if I put a power vision tuner on it, will I have to get new o2 sensors?
You will not need new sensors. The Power Vision uses the stock o2 sensors, the same as the SE Tuner.
Thank you
You're welcome! 😎
I have 2 Harleys a 883 Sportster and a Super Glide Custom can i use 1 module on both bikes
You can use the same Power Vision Hardware (depending on what years your bikes are, you may need a different cable for each one). HOWEVER, you will need to pay dynojet an extra $219 for a second license.
If I buy a new Harley road king or street glide and I buy a V&H fuel pak 3, but not a performance air filter or exhaust, can I improve fuel efficiency? A tuner and no aftermarket intake/air filter and exhaust barely sounds like a stage 1.
You may be able to squeak out an extra .5 to 1 mpg with just a tuner. Thankfully the M8's are getting a little better MPG from the factory than the Twin Cams. They are also not too lean like the Twin Cams.
You may like this video- th-cam.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipmsh/w-d-xo.htmlttps://th-cam.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/w-d-xo.html
This is more of a question: would my XL1200 benefit from autotune? It's totally stock. I'm looking for better mpg and cooler engine.
Yes. We have not seen a bike that has an OEM tune or canned tune that did not benefit from an auto-tune. You should see a slight increase in MPG (between .5 and 1.5) and 10* or so less heat.
Good deal. It would not pay for itself anytime soon, but the benefits outweigh the costs. Thanks for the insight.
So when you say ride normally I get that is there any point in going wide open throttle on auto tune because when you go wide open throttle doesn’t it go into open loop ? (No ecm control all fuel for full throttle)
When in autotune the PV does rewrite the VE tables, at all throttle positions.
Here is a video that shows how the ECM works, including the adaptive learning it has (which is a different than the autotune, but thought you may be interested)
th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html
Autotune basic will not write to anything past the capability of the stock o2 sensor. If you want to write to anything past 14.4 afr parts of the map you would need the autotune pro version which comes with wide band o2 sensor. There is a difference
What are your thoughts/experience on the ThunderMax ECM? I used it previously on a 1200 sportster but haven't gotten a tuner yet for my M8.
Some folks really like the Thundermax, and others have had endless challenges with them.
Because it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, we have not messed with them at all.
I just installed one on my bike and I love it but the new power vision is pretty nice too from what I've heard. In my opinion you can't go wrong with either one
Good to hear it is working well for you! 👍
Can you auto tune the PV4 on a Harley stage 2 with S&S 475 cam ?
Yes, you can AFTER you get a base map for that Stage II on a Power Vision linked below.
However, the PV4 does NOT have auto tune capability right now.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
What are yalls thoughts on Thundermax?
Some people really like the Thunder Max, and others have endless problems out of them. Since it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, (50/50 is being a little on the nice side), we have not messed with them at all.
Thanks for commenting! MB
Thundermax worked well for me, and a few other people I know that use them. Only one guy I know had a problem, and it was his fault. He didn't want to spend the money on switching over to wide band o2 sensors.
I've put it on three bikes, and will be putting it on my 4th. Along with an ultracool oil cooler.
I'll also add that one of the guys I know got the thundermax kit that converts an Evo to efi, and he loves it.
I have the fp4, do I keep the tuner plugged in when I’m autotuning it
Yes you will want to keep the FP4 plugged in while auto tuning!
do you think power vision auto tune can learn a aftermarket cam?
No, it cannot. You must get at least a generic tune for that particular cam, then you dial it in with autotune. Look at the following link, you can get a pre-programmed tune for most any cam, and double warranty, w/ your PV.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
@@DKCustomProducts that sucks cause im in cali and my dynojet has no premaps and i cant get one from fuel moto 😔
@@sLowRider114. Yes, California can be a problem that way. Do you have a friend in AZ, NV or Oregon?
@@DKCustomProducts i do in Oregon
@@DKCustomProducts apricate the tip im having a buddy do it for me 😁
Will an autotune void my warranty in my 2021 fxbbs?
On 2017+ models, any changes to the power plant that are not EPS approved have the potential of voiding the warranty.
Here are our thoughts on the subject- th-cam.com/video/p8U4XsHyBug/w-d-xo.html
would the autotune help with decal pop?
No, not specifically. Within the PV and FP3/4 menus are a decel enleanment feature that can help with that.
You can see a video on it here- th-cam.com/video/I_djBYYYu28/w-d-xo.html
Also, Thunder Torque Inserts™ will give you more low and mid range power, and also help get rid of decel pop. More info on them here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57-267.htm
Yes auto tune works you don't get full performance. if horse power loss is your thing.
Thanks for the comment...but I don't understand it. Could you please explain what you mean?
@@DKCustomProducts Nothing beats a Dyno tune bike the end.
@@TheXcr800dude Well, that sorta depends on who is doing the dyno tune. Unfortunately the majority of "techs" running the dyno at dealerships turn out some pretty mediocre tunes.
Here is a video on that subject- th-cam.com/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/w-d-xo.html
Can you have it on Auto Tune permanently to take into account wear and tear over time
That would not be a good idea, when it is in autotune it "detuned" a bit for the process to work...and you only get the benefit of the autotune once you have finished it and flashed it to the ECM.
But you can do autotune as often as you want.
Many guys, myself included, have one autotune map that we run during the warmer months, and another autotune map we run during the colder months. (many areas of the country have different gasoline blends they run during the colder months, so it is not a bad idea to have a different tune (map) for those times.
@@DKCustomProducts Thank you, I live in Australia and we have two seasons, hot and hotter......................lol
@@motoring8407 I've never been there, but we hear that a lot from our Australian Customers.
I think you are going from the "hotter" season to the "hot" right about now?
I bought an FP3 and I would’ve liked to of gotten a Dyno tune, but where I live, you’re gonna pay 900 bucks for that dyno tune…… why is getting a Dino tune so stinking expensive?
Dyno tuning is done with an expensive machine, usually in an expensive building, and insurance is high also. Additionally, IF the human doing the dyno tuning is going to produce a great tune, they are going to have to spend 2-4 hours on the dyno with your bike.
Will outo tune work in a 2003 no 02 sensors in pipes ?
It will not. It only works with Delphi EFI systems that utilize o2 sensors.
You have to cross reference your year and model against dynojet t9 verify. I believe you would need the autotune pro version you would have to add o2 bungs to existing exhaust or get new exhaust with bungs already welded in. Depending on model they go down to 2001 years
Good point on possible fitment. Thank you! 👍
Can you auto tune with the PV4 ?
Last time we looked you could only autotune with the PV4 if you added the Target Tune Module.
We do not like the PV3 or PV4.
We have a good supply of the Power Vision that has autotune capability and a touch screen for ease of use and to double as a gauge display. You can see it here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
Would a auto tune work on my 2000 road king, which is stock, and what would work.
You can't use a tune on your bike, only for fuel injection.
@@sanderpena My 2000 road king is fuel injected, the early fuel injection the Marelli.
@@donald2106 I thought Harleys went into fuel injection in 2007 my bad.
@@sanderpena 1995 too 2006, they were both.
@@donald2106 got you.
Power vision better than Vance and Hines fuel pak?
We like it better. The FuelPak works quite well for Stage I's and many Stage II's, but for a III or IV it will not work.
You can see a fuller description of each at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/efi-tuners-c74-262.htm
Those guys at Hammer performance they swear by the power of visions and they don’t sell anything else and they are nothing but a performance shop things to make your bike go faster a lot faster so I would stick with PowerVision they don’t even really wanna fool with anybody with the FP3
Yes, Hammer is all about Stage IV upgrades and the FP3 is really only good for Stage I, and some Stage II's.
Watching tony cox on TH-cam hammer sent him all the actual values to type in on the FP3 because he didn’t go with the power vision and far as I know bike ran fine
Is there a hp/tq value on the screen?
No, the PV does not display hp/tq. Other devices, like the FP3/FP4 that do display them, the numbers displayed are derived or calculated numbers, not particularly accurate.
@@DKCustomProducts Ok, thank you. Your vids are particularly informative.....subscribed.
@@lawsonfan5797 Thanks man. Glad you are liking the vids, and thank you for subscribing.
Yeah because most of these bikes are are running to lean and if you run the auto tune it will run fatter up or in rich the fuel the amount of it it will cause it to runs cooler
That is true of Twin Cams and Sportys. The M8's are not too lean with the OEM tune. You can see a video on that here- th-cam.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/w-d-xo.html
And a written report on it here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
What about the Thundermax ?
Some folks really like the Thundermax, and others have had endless challenges with them.
Because it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, we have not messed with them at all.
@@DKCustomProducts installing S&S 509 cams and a thundermax in my TC 88 right now. Hoping tor the best
@@jeffwalker1322 Wishing you many miles of smiles with your new set up!
@@DKCustomProducts I am not happy. My bike ran perfect and I had s&s 509 cams installed in my 2004 tc 88 along with the thundermax. It backfires hard on decel and often coughs through the breather when starting from a stop or rev matching on downshifting. On top of this I’ve lost 10 mpg.
@@jeffwalker1322 Man, sorry to hear that. But that is why we do not mess with the Thundermax. Some have a great experience with it, then others, like yourself, not so much.
Speed limiter?
Yes, you can up your speed limiter with the Power Vision. 👍
www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
Why do you ignore thundermax?
Here is why. Below is an exchange we had with someone who asked the same question.
"Jeff Walker
1 month ago
What about the Thundermax ?
DKCustomProducts
1 month ago
Some folks really like the Thundermax, and others have had endless challenges with them.
Because it is such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences, we have not messed with them at all.
Jeff Walker
1 month ago
@DKCustomProducts installing S&S 509 cams and a thundermax in my TC 88 right now. Hoping tor the best
DKCustomProducts
1 month ago
@Jeff Walker Wishing you many miles of smiles with your new set up!
Jeff Walker
18 hours ago
@DKCustomProducts I am not happy. My bike ran perfect and I had s&s 509 cams installed in my 2004 tc 88 along with the thundermax. It backfires hard on decel and often coughs through the breather when starting from a stop or rev matching on downshifting. On top of this I’ve lost 10 mpg.
DKCustomProducts
1 second ago
@Jeff Walker Man, sorry to hear that. But that is why we do not mess with the Thundermax. Some have a great experience with it, then others, like yourself, not so much.
@@DKCustomProducts ok.... backfiring on deceleration is usually a leak either at the heads to pipes or the O2 sensors. I'm betting the tech didn't properly seat the O2 sensors. They are Bosch usually and need to be torqued properly.
@@umpatas5468 Hopefully he will get it chased down...especially the coughing thru the A/C & the mpg. The decel pop is fairly easy to fix.
@@DKCustomProducts avoided. If it's coughing through acceleration then it's probably the base map being wrong and probably too rich with the mpg loss. I got 20k miles on my Tmax and I just don't have those problems. And it adjusted to your breather system within 15 minutes of riding. Thanks. This wasn't the first horror story I've heard. But they all seem similar.
👍👍
Maybe The Auto in Auto-Tune is for Automotive not Automatic ???
Was that auto tune basic
Yes, both of those charts show the results of the autotune basic that comes on all Power Visions.
That’s impressive. Thanks for doing that comparison.
Very informative! Thank you!
Glad you found it informative! Thanks for commenting!