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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- The best tuner for Harley-Davison, two flash tuners stand out on the market today that are easy to use and very powerful. Dynojet Power Vision has been available for years and is a favorite among dyno tuning professionals. Vance & Hines Fuelpak 3 is great for tuning your own motorcycle at home in the garage. Both units perform the same functions but there are some differences you might want to consider before making a decision on a tuner.
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Motorcycle: 2016 Harley-Davidson Sportster XL1200CP (Sportster 1200 Custom)
• Harley-Davidson Sports...
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Screamin' Eagle Heavy Breather air cleaner
Vance & Hines FuelPak FP3 amzn.to/2M0tV9r
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Motorcycle: 2017 Harley-Davidson Sportster XL1200X (Sportster Forty-Eight)
• 2017 Harley Sportster ...
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Screamin' Eagle Exteme Billed Air Cleaner (Black)
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Two very capable tuners but they do things way different, which one would you choose?
2 things...1) you didn't cover PV AUTOTUNE and how easy THAT is...2) you didn't mention that you can REMOVE THE PV DEVICE, ONCE YOU COMPLETE THE AUTOTUNE...no more stealthy than that...plus any upgrades you make (cam, stage 1, stage 2, stage 3, stage 4, whatever), just hook the PV back up and run AUTOTUNE again...AND, IMHO Fuel Pak is the more cumbersome of the two, i.e.,depending on a blue tooth connection (which can break down) on my phone or tablet, and depending on Vance and Hines' servers for my maps, versus the PV hardwired device (which utilizes a simple touch screen menu), and a solid windows program (32 or 64 bit)...plus, you can buy licenses for all the bikes you own and AUTOTUNE them all! Or, you take it to a dyno tuner or harley shop, and let them do it for $500-600...or save the money and do it yourself w/ PV AUTOTUNE...
I have had connectivity issues myself with the bluetooth on the FP3, I use a Power Vision on the Vrod and it works great on that bike. The PV took a little more getting used to and it's a more professional tuner in my opinion. Your right though, the Power Vision has a lot more versatility going to the Dyno and from what I have seen not many shops have jumped on board with the Fuel Pak Pro to tune someone with an FP3.
Screaming Eagle Auto Tune Pro
That's a pretty nice tuner, it should work with any map and not just the Screamin Eagle Street Tuner.
PV is a far more capable device. No question.
Power vision is the best money I have spent on the bike. With the wide band 02 sensors And all the mods I have done Took me a while to get the tune perfect but I'm very happy and would definitely recommend the power vision over any other product on the market.
I really like that Power Vision, l tuned my dad's Vrod with one. They are definitely worth the money, especially the wide band kit.
Well, I had the Power Vision on my stock-except-for -mufflers 2016 103 FXDB, and it was great for 5 years until a month or so ago when it simply stopped working. The map was still working, but the unit would not respond. Dyno-Jet tried to fix it digitally, but it would not update or anything else. Then they wanted me to "retire" (their word) the unit to them with $300 for a new one. But now I don't trust it, so I opted for the V&H FP3. I really liked the Power Vision and was greatly disappointed when it stopped responding. So far, the V&H is doing fine.
300 bucks and they would give you a new one after 5 years, that's not too bad of a deal. I like the FP3 personally, if you're not going to a dyno it's a great unit for exhaust, air cleaner and even a cam. I've had mine on my for 6 years and it's been awesome, I leave it on the bike so I can switch maps or make changes as needed.
@@GixxerFoo Yep, $3oo and trade-in for a new unit. It did seem pretty fair, but I had the opportunity to go for the V&H so I went that route. I'd still recommend the PV, hoping mine was just an unfortunate glitch. The map they provided is great. My Street Bob runs %100 better with no decel pop. Pulls like an Army mule, no complaints. Great channel, BTW.
So I run a Fuelpak fp3 on my 2021 Harley Sportster 48. It has an Arlen ness stage 1 big sucker air cleaner with V&H mini grenades. I ran it with the canned map for a week and worked fine but I knew I could get it to run better. So I did the autotune and precisely did different types of riding to get as many cells learned as I can. I did two sessions in a day. I did a one hour session which started with neighborhood riding at low rpm’s and gradually worked my way up to highway riding, nothing crazy just standard cruising. I applied that to my map. For my second session, I went out to a safe secure place and did 0-60mph, 0-70mph, 0-80mph, and 0-100mph runs for about 30 minutes. Then I finished auto tuning. The difference in throttle smoothness and taking off from a stand still was night and day. I had one small issue, i would occassionally have about a half of a second of sputterness at low speeds in first gear. So I called V&H fp3 tech support and told them my problem. The tech sent the map to the dyno team they have there and within 10 minutes I had a map downloaded and sent to my FP3. I then flashed the bike with the downloaded map and it runs even better than when I first bought it. I had an amazing experience with the Fuelpak. I figured I would share my experience. Now I have never used a PowerVision nor am I saying the Fuelpak is better. I just wanted to tell my story about my experience with the fuelpak
That's awesome! You did a correct autotune the way it needs to be done! Power Vision is great, more difficult to use in my opinion. PV is better for dyno tuning and really getting into the motor only because it's more widely used and dyno tuners are heavily invested in it.
I am also looking to make a choice for a sportster, so knowing your experience makes this a more confident decision.
I had the exact same mods on my 883 but I must have did the auto tune wrong because it actually made the bike run slower for me lol. Basemap marked 60 hp and 62 ft lbs of torque. Autotune dropped it to 40-45
I have had both the FP 3 and Powervision on several Harleys . Personally I prefer the PV even though it is a few more dollars . With the FP 3 I could never get the 12 FLhXS tuned right even with auto tune sessions and V&H help. A PV tuner did the trick getting rid of the decal pop and hesitation , but I had to take it and get it dynoed$$$$. If you’re happy with canned and auto tune FP 3, max performance and best adjustability go Powervision!
Just found your channel and binged most of your videos. I have a 2001 twin cam Road King, a 2020 Street glide and am looking at maybe picking up a sportster to modify heavily. The amount of information on your channel is amazing and I’m a numbers guy so seeing all your information backed up with actual facts is great. Thank you for your content.
I appreciate you watching and thank you! Sounds like you have quite the fleet, nothing wrong with a bike for every day of the week!
GixxerFoo haha you know how it goes. I have a 2001 drz400 super moto and a 2008 Ktm 990 Adventure also. Both soon to be sold. I want one of everything I see so I keep a small group of bikes (usually 2 maybe 3) and generally keep a bike for about 2 years then sell it and move on to the next one. Obviously with the brand new Street glide I’ll have that one a little longer and I’ve fallen in love with the old Road King so I’m gonna be all HD for a little while I guess. Thanks again and can’t wait for your content.
@@mraycgz The old Harleys really are fun to ride, not the fastest things out there lol. One day l am gonna get super moto, they look like a blast to ride in the city!
You can use a tablet instead of your phone with the fp3 and do all the same things as power vision. Fp3 has great customer service and can help with a map at your home no charge
That's very true, l have actually duplicated my phone and tablet screen on the computer to use a mouse and keyboard. It can be done, a lot of negative you hear about the FP3 is from places highly invested in Power Vision.
In todays market. $50 more for PV over FP3 is worth it! I prefer TTS Mastertune. as does my dynotuner. If U can afford the xtra $2-300 for dyno, do it. My Tuner spends 3+ hours and dials in and optimizes tune in every gear on the dyno. Autotuning a pv/fp3 with canned map on the street will get u close but never 100%. Dyno's represent street conditions to tune w/o getting tickets/hurt/traffic. Trust me, tuning 3rd gear at high rpm and 100+ mph is easier in a controlled environment vs being on the street. be safe, eyes open and rubber side down out there.
No doubt dyno is hands down the way to go! They sold a lot of FuelPaks when the Power Vision was 550 bucks since they were cheaper. TTS is a really awesome product for dyno use, it's definetely designed for the professional.
@@GixxerFoo k
Tried FP3 on my 07 Sportster when I began to make it into a bobber. The unit refused to work as it couldn’t recognize the o2 sensors cause the exhaust pipes I had made were so short. Installed PowerVision and worked fine. Recognized the o2 sensors and was able to tune it using the auto tuner feature. Had to do some fine tuning due to air/fuel ratio being off a little but PowerVision auto tune was close.
Plan on replacing the tuner on my 06 ultra classic with the PowerVision efi kit.
The FP3 works pretty well on mostly stock to stage 1 with a cam, but you can't beat the power vision. It takes a bit more getting used to the menus but it's the better product.
I ran an FP3 on my 09 Heritage. Arlen Ness Big Sucker and V&H Big Shots. Plugged in the canned map and ran a couple of autotune sessions, like Mitch Aldrich did. I had great results!! The difference I had was, I never had any issues with the autotune and never needed to contact V&H. At the time, the FP3 was exactly what I needed, knowing I was never going to go any further with my setup. I did love the blue tooth part of it... just mount the phone to the bars ang get real time feedback.
Now, if I were to buy another injected bike, the PV is where I would go. But the next one will probably get upgraded over time.
I've had really good results with the FP3 myself too, where the FP3 falls short is not having an option for the PC software. Next time around I will likely go with a Power Vision, you get more functionality but it is a bit more difficult to use.
I have a 05 flhtcui Harley Davidson and a 09 883 that I have the dynojet turner in both the bikes and I just love how they have improved the power of the bikes.
A good map makes all the difference, those stock maps are just so lean and make the bikes run awful.
I use the FP3 Vance & Hines And found it to work very well I love being able to tune on the fly from my smartphone. I have a lot of power with very little problems. Have an 09FLHTCU with 2 × 1 Exhaust And a high flow K&N filter
The Fp3 is just as capable as the Power Vision, it really just needs a PC based software program. I really like the Vance & Hines maps, they did an awesome job developing them.
What of Yu lose phone? Or Vance an Hines is closed on the weekend? Or apple doesn’t approve of your political affiliation? We are way too dependent on these douchey smartphones imo.
Right, that's a huge issue right now. Failures are rare, possible of course but it's very reliable.
I used the FuelPack for my 2010 SuperglideC stage one. The canned map worked great. Was like night and day.
Just for kicks I tuned my bike when it bone stock with the FP3 while I was waiting on the pipes and air cleaner to come in. It was at that moment I realized I messed up riding it stock for a year, it was like a whole new bike even bone stock. Finally ran like it should!
@@GixxerFoo That was my experience exactly. What a difference! From the factory it was a dog to ride. Now its way more fun.
I was shocked how bad the factory maps are. It's one of those things you know they aren't great but once you experience the difference... wow.
@@GixxerFoo why am I having such bad luck? Mine outa nowhere just stopped idling the other night.. Even after fully warmed up after riding several miles.. I’m like wow what if I was on a trip, on a Saturday, and can’t call v&h till Monday ? Hate being dependent on iPhone especially now too after they are getting political.
Your bike totally stopped idling completely out of nowhere?!
I use the same PV for my Crossbones and Sporty. Love it.
If going to stage 1 or 2, I'd go with the FP3. If you're going to stage 3 or 4, I'd go PV. Great video gixxerfoo.
Absolutely LOVE my PV. It can do absolutely anything a guy could need when tuning a moto. FP3 will work fine if all you want to do is run a slightly improved canned map.
I've had good luck with my PV on the Vrod, learning curve was a bit more than on the FP3. Much easier to just email tunes or put them on a thumb drive.
Did you have to buy a new license or something to use the PV on two bikes?
It's actually pretty easy to install an auto tuner onto your motorcycle. Most aftermarket pipes are already fitted for wide band o2 sensors.
That's a great benefit of after market exhaust, they make it easy to install wide bands. Stock headers you have to tap your existing ports of have bungs welded in.
I purchased the v&h . It lasted maybe 4 days . At that point my bike would not idle below 18 to 1900 . it would shut the bike off while i was going down the highway . So i put a text into v&h , they just told me [ with out asking a single question ] it was the bike,s fault . the only way to get it home was to remove it from my bike . and when i did , the bike ran as it should with a stock tune . their response to this was " F off '' basically .The worst customer service i have EVER had !!! I went to the powervision . great choice ! works flawless !!!
My 2 cents...Even if you don't plan on going past the stage one the additional gauge packages in the power vision where you can view up to six different parameters full-time on your handlebars make it more than worth any cost offset. When I installed my power vision I found out my speedo was 4 mph offso I only use the digital version it provides now. I get to look at gear indicator actual engine temp tachometer battery voltage fuel economy etc or anything else I want on gauges while I'm riding. Even just the speedo up there it beats having to look down at my tank to know how fast I'm going. I'm sorry but the FP3 doesn't come close even before you consider adding cams which you need the power vision Auto-Tune function for anyway unless you want to keep making visits to a dyno.
You can use the FP3 for gauges but you have to use your phone, it gets old in a hurry too. I do like the software program that come with the PV and now it's not 200 bucks more than a FP3. You can get a PV for maybe 50 bucks more than the FP3.
Love the FP3 on my stage 1 sportster. Easy to use for a not-so-tech savvy person with just a stage 1.
Couldn't agree more! I tuned my bike stock while I was waiting on my pipes and air cleaner to come in. Wow, I was kicking myself for waiting a year. A lot of people think the FP3 is not as capable as the power vision. They both do the exact same thing, just the FP3 is more user friendly. Dyno Tuners hate the FP3 since they are all heavily invested in DynoJet.
Also with Power Vision you can add additional bikes for just $200.
That right there is a huge benefit, honestly ease of use goes to the FP3 but Power Vision is the way to go hands down.
Nice vid ..... definitely some haters on the FP3. My last bike I had the PV. It was nice and in my opinion, never really needed the PC to use it. Every bike I have had, I never did past a stage 1. I just ordered the FP3 today. I like the fact that i can have it on my phone on the bike running with blue tooth. From what I have learned, I do feel the PV is probably more capable - and no question when you need a bike tuned on a dyno - but for me, and most everyone else - the FP3 is probably the most user friendly and does more than what most people need it to do.
The Power Vision is an excellent unit, the FP3 can perform all the same functions albeit more difficult doing it with a touch screen. I've had both and for day to day I like the FP3, but for serious engine builds Power Vision is the way to go.
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for the response. I Fp3 came in today and I just realized I have RDRS on my bike so before opening the box - I need to figure out if it will utilize one of the canned maps properly.
I got the HD tuner plus the wideband auto tune module and I must say it works well. Still get good gas mileage as well. Changed out the headpipe when we added the HD ATM easy flash and ride. You do need a computer however and it's mated to the bike only
Even the wideband system marries to your bike vin? I really like those wideband systems, eventually they will probably come stock with emissions becoming more strict.
@@GixxerFoo wideband does no marry to the bike, only the tuner itself.
Thanks for making this informative and helpful review 👍🏻
I just love my Thundermax.
New pipes, no problem, new cam, lifters, pistons? No problem. Too lean? No problem!
ThunderMax is awesome, it's worth the money without a doubt!
@@GixxerFoo when I finally need a new top end I'm doing the 1275 with cams, chain drive and I got a machine guy who will polish and port my heads relatively cheap. Add the brass oil pump sprocket, springs, rockers, lifters and adjustable push rods, and 10:1 pistons and I'm looking at a rocket, all looking like stock.
That's awesome! Sounds like you got a hell of a plan in place and it's gonna be done right.
@@GixxerFoo I trust my mechanic. Besides he already bought those specialty Harley tools I don't want to buy.
It's awesome to have someone you can trust to work on your bike if you don't do it yourself. I've seen some hack jobs come in or someone got sold parts meant for the track and it blew up dealing with traffic.
I've never come across a on road tune that I liked, car or bike. Going to a dyno tuner who is familiar with the engine you got is where you wanna go.
Dyno tuners are magicians, it's crazy the kinda power they can pull out of a motor just by tuning alone!
I’ve used my FP3 on my 2015 Harley Road Glide CVO for the last 95K miles. I’ve had two cam changes since new. The Andrews 57h cams was on the FP3 menu of cams. With auto tune you can feel the difference in my then stock 110 engine. Last month my 2nd cam chain tensioner failed. Being that my bike would be at the dealer waiting on parts I decided to upgrade my bike to a stage 4 117 kit from HD. My dealer and their mechanic claimed they wouldn’t be able to tune my bike with my FP3 tuner. During this pandemic parts and tuners were are back order. So I relented and got the Screaming Eagle tuner. Once my bike was returned to me, the idle was running very rough. The mechanic stated it was due to my OEM pipes & exhaust and suggested a new exhaust system was needed. Being pissed for not telling me this while my build was being done, I went down the road to an independent. He ordered a V&H 4 1/2” Hi output exhaust and head pipes. He too claimed it would be very difficult to tune my build using my FP3 tuner. So I paid another $200 for a PV2 license to work on his tuner. Got my bike back the next day and was disappointed. The idle was slightly better however riding down the interstate power was lacking in 4th to 6th gear. I now rode directly home, hooked up my FP3 tuner and phoned V&H for advice and remedy. Over the phone the V&H tech jotted down the 259e cams, the exhaust system, the 58mm throttle body , etc. after a few minutes he downloaded the exact map I needed and talked me through the process of flashing this new map. Then he told me there was no need to auto tune. This all took about 15 minutes. I started the bike up and the idle was smooth. Pleasantly surprised I went on my test ride, wow! My bike was running as good as when it was new but with far more power in all the gears. So the answer to the question can an FP3 tune a Stage 4 117” build? The answer is YES!
I got a refund back from my dealer on the Screaming Eagle tuner. I’m still working on getting a refund from my independent.
That's awesome to hear! Vance and Hines has certainly done their homework in creating maps for almost all combinations. I am really happy to hear that you got a great tune with the FP3, that new Screamin Eagle Street Tuner is just too lean with AFR being a EPA tuner. I am really glad the refinded you on that, which they should of after installing a 117 kit.
Man like you have had great customer service with V&H and a huge fan of their products. Super nice people when you talk to them. Wish other companies would take notice..
They are really good, they put up with me hassling them on FuelPak Pro lol.
@@GixxerFoo yeah there is a lot of hater of the FP3 but when I ask how they use it and I find people don't understand how to use them. All they know is the dyno guy won't use them and the canned tunes are not awesome. Most don't understand you can upload to have tech review your auto tune as well. A ton of misinformation out there.
You hit the nail on the head, dyno tuners hate them cause they are heavily invested in Power Vision. The canned maps are pretty good, and like you said you can upload to V&H and they can correct maps.
After purchasing a FP3 for my 2020 Softail, and exploring everything it has too offer, I've come to realize that there's nothing you can't do with it. You can modify all the same parameters - and probably MORE - with the FP3, as any other tuner.
I'm planning on installing SS manifold intake and DK catch can but will continue to run my VH Eliminators on my 2020fxlrs ..Did FP get rid of the on / off throttle sensitivity in first gear ? And did you notice better performance/ mileage or fuel consumption ?
Thanks ..
@@paulhorvath9784 I know I'm 4 months late; but yes it did fix the weird throttle response, and there is also adjustments you can make to throttle progressivity if you wish. Fuel milage remained the same, performance definitely improved and interestingly, it made my bikes exhaust sound a bit different. I assume that's just down to the extra fuel. Our M8's run insanely lean from the factory, at almost 15:1 AFR. The FP3 fixes that.
Good video thx sir. Probably fuelpak is good for my Iron 1200 👍
It's a night and day difference once you tune it with one. I ordered my FuelPak and was waiting on my pipes and air cleaner, went ahead and tuned it with the improved stock map. Unbelievable, I felt like an idiot waiting a year to do it!
Down side of power vision pv-1, pv-2 I'd the software is windows only. So Apple users would need to be able to dual boot to use it.
There is now a power vision 4 that is app based and works with phones and tablets like the FP3
Thanks for posting. I just bought a nice used 2010 Fatboy and it has a power vision 5 mounted to the handle bars. I wasn’t familiar with these.
Love your channel! Would you please update this analysis based on the most recent price bumps and new products.
I have a power vision on my 09 road king , works great
I went from from TC88 >>> S&S 98ci, 585ce, TC3 gets the most from a thundermax, but you also need 2 hours on the dyno. Not cheap but you could spend more and still get less.
You didnt mention that on the power vision 3 you can click and drag on the tables to change more then one box at a time 😉
You can do that with the FP3 too, but it's pretty sketch on a touch screen with a phone or tablet. PC's software is really easy to use once you get the hang of it. A lot of people see software, computer and don't want anything to do with it 😆😂🤷♂️.
@@GixxerFoo I went with the pv3 because I couldn't find the fp for a 06 softail standard and yes fuel tables and everything else thes programmers can't do can be alittle intimidating at first but are well worth learning how to use my bike runs better then my buddies bike that was tuned by a dealer he has a 02 softail standard efi with Samson pipes with a aftermarket air leaner i have a 06 with a 200mm rear tire a 5 inch rake done with the fork trees arlen ness monster sucker air cleaner and he cant keep up i also have my redline set at 6200 his redlines at 5k
They only make FuelPak for 2007 up but PV is a fine tuner. Sounds like you've got those bikes setup pretty well!
@@GixxerFoo yes its setup pretty good its an absolute blast to ride and it actually handles just as good as it gose lol
@@GixxerFoo how can I send you a picture of my bike
I appreciate all you do for us first timers sir. I did want to get your input on the Cobra Powrpro Fi2000 tuner or see if you had any comments as I read up on it and purchased it. I also bought the Barnett heavy duty clutch spring w/the aim fuel moto variable pressure clutch and I'm waiting on the wood tw222 cams so I can have them installed. I'm putting them on my '15 Softail Slim FLS 103 which already has an aftermarket k&n breather and vance and hines short shots. Stay safe, God bless! ✌️
Thank you, I do have a video where I talked about the Cobra Tuners here th-cam.com/video/iWSKqGxGCsg/w-d-xo.html. That Wood Cam really makes those Twin Cams come to life, sounds like you've got a great setup going!
Had one on my 2020 street glide now going to another tuner to get more out of my bike
Power vision hands down. Ask Aaron at Hammer Performance.
Aaron is the man, I would love to know what he's forgot over the years!
Dynojet is my decision thx
i guess i am going with fp3 now. since i so far have vance and hines pipes and plan on an air cleaner soon. thanks for the help.
I really like mine, my dad has a Vrod and we used the PV. It's not as straight forward and the learning curve is tougher. We only did PV because he didn't want the piggy back fuel tuner, he wanted a full remap.
Mine after 3 rides just stopped idling.. not too happy with it
Softail Slim Stage ll 103 With S&S 583 Cams , Screaming Egale backing plate and Air cleaner , Vancen hines long shot pipes and FP3 tuner. 96hp 110 TQ what more do you need .
I heard that the FP3 can only be good for stage 1. Can they power vision 3 do more than stage 1? Like changing cams and big bore kits?
I couldn't stop wondering what word is above DONGS on your calendar. What were you saying? 😂
Power vision for my bike is almost 700 now. Try and get one in CA.
I have an 06 FLHRSI road king. put neighbor haters on, and a K&N filter for the stock air box. Converted to gear drive with 509G cams based on your videos, new oil pump, new cam plate, new inner and outer cam bearings, new lifters, all S&S... Middle of winter so im in no rush, but I have a Fuel PAK LED since by bike doesn't have O2 sensors... They gave me a tune, but not sure its correct. Not trying to be at 100% power here (not interested in a dyno tune for cruising) , just want to make sure my bike is not running too lean... Some times the FP tune in the past was feeling way to rich... FYI my crank runout was only .001 so gear drive was not problem. Jus trying to figure out if I should just ride it, or worry about getting a FP3 or Power Vision. again, without having any 02 sensors it seems like my options were limited. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Great videos BTW, learned a-lot over the last months....
Honestly it wouldn't hurt to with a Power Vision, the flash tuners are leaps and bounds above the inline fuel tuners. I would highly recommend getting one from FuelMoto. I am not sponsored by them or anything but I bought one for my dad's vrod through them and they have been awesome. You just enter your bikes information, air cleaner, cams, exhaust and they will send your Power Vison preloaded with one of their inhouse maps for that setup. Their maps are top notch, my dad's vrod was insane after their tune, had some decel pop and called them up. They sent me a modified map to try and it was perfect from then on!
@@GixxerFoo hey thanks. Will look I to that
@@GixxerFoo BTW I did buy the Power Vision. And proceeded to tune it myself after getting the tune they sent me. They got it close, and 34 tune adjustments later, I got it right on...... Without a wide band you do have to play around alot to get it right and keep the warm up tune good and the low speed traffic setting right on. I had tuned a mustang with an old school 90's tuner which was painfull. this was much much better. Still wish I had installed a wide band and I do have an LM1 wide band from my previous cars but didnt want to go to the trouble of installing it. Looking back I should have. anyway, the bike runs awesome, and tuning out spark knock was one of the easiest things to do. I mounted the tuner on the handlebars so I can see the temperature as my 06 road king doesnt have that feature. 95 degree day in traffic and the hottest it got was around 275 degrees.. normally at 240 running around... Bike runs awesome and thanks for suggesting this tuner!
Great to hear! I am glad to hear you got it all straightened out, it can take a bit to get it right!
Thank you for the bottomless pit of knowledge on Harley Davidson motors 🫡🙏🏽
Thank you! I appreciate that! I've been fighting the good fight trying to keep everyone doing their own work.
Just bought my fp3. Everyone kept recommending pv. But just like you said. Pv(alteast in the Netherlands) is 550€ and just bought the fp3 for 330€ i'm sure the pv whould have been better. But not 220€ better.
My understanding fp3 and fp4 can only do stage 1, where as the dyno can be used through out i want to put some bassini radials on at some point, but next year i want to do the stage 2, still working out which to go for
FP3 did have some maps for certain cams, you could manually enter the intake valve opening and closing time for any cam and then auto tune with the FP3 for cams they did not have a canned map for. I am not 100% sure if that's still true on the FP4. I would go with a Power Vision 3 while you can still get them.
Glad you made this video. I have. ? For you. So I have stock exhaust except for Reinhardt slip ons.
I went to Daytona bike week and spoke to Reinhardt for a full exhaust air cleaner mapping etc. they gave me price
But here is my ? They did not recommend the fuel pal 3
They ga e me Harley screaming eagle
And other name which I forgot
Why would they not recommend
Fuel pal 3
Thanks again.
The FP3 is a good tuner, it just has draw backs like dyno tuning. It's impossible to get a dyno tune without you providing or the tuner having the $700 FuelPak pro add on which allows your Fp3 to be used. The FP3 is a great tuner for air cleaner, exhaust and maybe later a cam. You'd have to plan to not ever dyno tune the bike to use the FP3, a much better investment is the Power Vision tuner. Power Vision is like Visa, it's accepted at dyno tuners everywhere and that's almost the standard for dyno tuning.
@@GixxerFoo you da man thank you.
I have a stage 2 build on my 06 Road King FLHRI and had a TechnoResearch map downloaded. It works really well but there are not a lot of shops that deal with TechnoResearch. I am getting ready to do a stage 3 big bore kit on the bike and want to go with a tuner that most shops are familiar with and have narrowed it down to either a Power Commander 5 which is supposed to work with the 02-06 twin cams which have no 02 sensors, or the TTS Mastertune which Doc's Performance Tuning here in Central Florida suggests. I guess if I picked up a set of 07/08 header pipes with the 02 sensor bungs then that would open up my choices? Also I understand the FP3 will not work on the 06 and earlier TC88's because they don't have 02 sensors? 'm a newb at all of this so I got a lot to learn before I actually start my build.
I’m thinking of getting the techno research tuner what do you think about it I’m going with the 570 can in a 2016 street glide special
Purchased my bike from a Harley dealer and I think it has a cam but the only way I could check is to go into the.. I thought that the power vision does auto-tune and could figure out a proper tune AF R
The AFR is set within the map already, the autotune is done with the narrow band sensors so it's not exactly perfect. The autotune adjusts the VE tables for the cylinders. The Volumetric Efficiency is basically how much air is entering the cylinders at a given throttle position and the fuel is adjusted accordingly for the cell within the map table to meet the AFR goal.
Once you have completed Autotune basic, and corrected the VE tables you can manually change the AFR tables to fit your needs. Can also purchase Autotune pro and make adjustments to the wide open throttle portion of the map.
Best bike channel
Thank you! We appreciate the support!
What do you think about the ThunderMaxx tuner
So Vance & Hines came out with their wide band system power vision came out with their wide bad system Harley came out with their wideband system once you buy your first system then you buy the wide band to supplement the first system you're into about $1,000 however if you just buy a thundermax which costs $800 and comes with a wideband system which is an autotuner, anyway it will save you money and do a much better job.
You're welcome 😎
You just said it right there, that's gonna be the best value when you compare it that way. They bank on you on you not buying it all at once l guess.
Thunder max.... not googled it yet... is that a tuner too or complete replacement system ... I was wondering about the Daytona systems for an 07 Sporty going with 1275 Hammer kit, cams, headwork etc....
ThunderMax is a complete ECM replacement with wide band 02 sensors. It's expensive but if you can swing it l would go for it!
FP3 you don’t have to adjust each cell by it’s self hold down then hold down on another cell it will select the cells you want
Another well done video with good info. I'm considering the Hammer 1275 conversion kit for My sporty, which tuner would You recommend?
Excellent choice and well worth it, Power Vision hands down! That will make your conversion much easier, Hammer sells them too. If you buy a big bore kit and a power vision from them they will preload the tune on it for you. All you have to do is flash it to the bike with the kit installed.
Thanks!
No problem! Thank you for the support!
Good info, but ever though about holding your hands and arms still when talking? ..lol , My bike 2021 Street Glide 107 only has Cobra 909s with baffles and torque insert's as a mod, I have no decel popping and get 46- 48 mpg.. It just don't seem I could improve it with a programmer.. in the future, I might consider and catless exhuast and a cam, but no free flow air filter (allowing more dirt in the intake)..
What if you just got your back and you're not sure if it's been modified already I know I have the fuel pack in it is there a map already for the bike that tells me everything that it is
If you have a Fuel Pak you can view the current map, that will tell if you if it's been tuned or not. Best way to tell at a quick glance is if the middle of the map is lower than 14.7 afr, something down around 14.4 in the cruise range is quick way to tell.
Don’t forget TTS, it is one of the best tuners on the market.
I feel the auto tune feature of thr FP3 needs a more in depth look. Maybe it's own video?
You should compare the FP with the PV4...
Simple choice if your a pipe and air cleaner guy.. get the fp3
If your trying to build a street monster get the power vision
That's basically it, unless you do like me and get the FP3 then decide you want to build more lol.
GixxerFoo hey it happens!
I’m get sick adding up the money I’ve spent on my Shovelhead. Could’ve had a brand new bike with all I’ve spent. But, I’ve got a cool old school bike that super reliable... So guess it’s a win
All these new bikes all look and sound the same, you gotta walk out and figure out which black Street Glide is yours lol.
Good morning, I got the fuelpak 3 for my Fatboy 2008, but I saw that the connector is 6-pin and my Fatboy the connector is 4-pin, my question is if with a 6-pin to 4-pin converter, would the Fuelpak 3 work in my fatboy, thank you
Its sounds like you have the FP3 for the CanBus electrical system, the 2008 has the J1850 sytem. You'd need to get that unit exchanged for the correct one.
I purchased the power vision for my 2016 fat Bob with the 103 I noticed there's only one map on power vision for the dana103. Do I run the risk harming my motor if I select some of the other programs that are close to what I have
Where did you buy it at? If you bought from FuelMoto they will send you a map based on your setup. DynoJet has some maps on their website that might better fit your setup. If it's just stock or a stage 1 setup I go with the map it gives you for the 103 and then run auto tune sessions to dial it in to your setup.
Will the Fp3 work on my 2011 fltruse? I can find a definite answer
Yes they work on 2007 and newer Harleys, if you're buying a new one you'll be getting the FP4 which is the newer version and it will work with your bike.
What kind of fuel economy do these tuners gain or decrease? The thundermax claims to gain a bunch of MPG’s but it actually hurts fuel consumption. I have a 2007 street glide and I’m wanting a auto tuner that does decent performance and gains fuel economy also
They do add fuel to the bike, but they do it in all the right places where the bike runs super lean. Depending on how you ride you're fuel economy will go up and down a bit. I personally didn't notice any major changes in economy, riding conservatively I actually got better mileage and the bike ran a lot cooler with with more.
@@GixxerFoo I just put the FP3 on my 07 street glide and the difference in sound is amazing!!
great video wonder if the fp3 has s&s 475 cams in it
What engine do you have? They have quite an assortment of maps with S&S cams.
Was wondering what tuner to get? Running a 510 S&S cam with cam plate oil pump, push rods, lifters, gear drive, S&S slip on, and breather. But have plans to do big bore in the future. Please give me your opinion Gixxer Foo
Since you plan on going further than just the cam, you'd be better off with the Power Vision. FP3 can do it, but they don't have the software program that the Power Vision has. Plus finding a Dyno Tuner that has invested in the Fuel Pak Pro to be able to use the FP3 on their dyno is tough. With the Power Vision most companies will email you a base map for the big bore kit which you can load into the Power Vision and flash the map. With the FP3 they will send you pages of specs and you have to enter that manually on your phone. This is very risky, you mess up a number and it can cost the motor. Plus with Power Vision finding a dyno tuner to get your bike dialed in is very easy, most shops fully support Power Vison.
Could you show the products I don’t know which one you’re talking about
Again, great video! Thanks much
My pleasure! I hope it was helpful!
Hi, Love your videos and you always ask for questions, so here you go. 😁 I just bought a 2008 Dyna Low Rider (96" Twin Cam). Has dual V& H long pipes, I'm gonna pop on a high flow AC and was gonna get an FP3 but only FP4s seem to be available now. What's the deal about FP3s VS FP4s, regarding upgrading cams? (considering S&S EZ start 570 series cams down the road and figured at that point I'd have them installed & dynotuned by a pro). Looking for FP3 or FP4 as a temporary (1 or 2 season, stage 1) upgrade. What do you think? FP4/Autotune make sense? (Or anyone who may still have a NEW FP3 4-PIN #66007?) BTW. The shop I would use does use powervision, but I thought the FP3 pr FP4 might be easier for my temporary solution? Thanks!
So I just bought my first bike. A 2002 road king FLHPI. Is this recommended to put a tuner on a higher mileage bike? I’m just curious on this. Any advice would be great.
It won't hurt a thing, the bike will actually run a lot better with a good tune. Even bone stock bikes will benefit.
What’s the importance of having the bike dyno tuned if you can real world tune the bike with the fp3 pro wide band kit?
Does the power vision adjust to your riding after your install it at all?
You can do an autotune and flash the data to your ECM, this will get your map closer to your bike specifically.
Can you elaborate a bit more about what the FP can do for a stock sportster please,I just got a 2019 1200 roadster edition and I'm in love with it ❤️.I plan on a stage 1 at some point and time and that's as far as I wanna take it as far as modding it.just wondering what we're the benefits of tuning a stock bike like mine? Oh shit i almost forgot that I did drill out the metal plates in the stock baffles 🤘
If you're on an XR1200 I'd avoid the V&H all day. They dont support it and cant support it, cant update or fix issues with it.
The XR I believe you have to run the older version of the FuelPak like the LCD I believe. Power Vision would be the way to go on an XR. I missed a clean by XR from the parts manager at my Harley dealer by a few days. He had one for sale and I was hot after one, sold it to a guy who was taking it back to Europe with him.
Hey Gixxerfoo, I just installed on my 2015 883 Iron Cobra 909 exhaust pipes with baffles, and an S&S air cleaner. Question: Do I have to buy a flash tuner? Can a HD mechanic flash my EU?
I would for sure get a flash tuner, it will make a huge difference in your power and performance. The "download" at the dealer is just for SE parts and even then you'd be better off with a tuner.
2010 FXSTC. The PV1 and FP3 are no more. Could you make an update comparing PV3/4 and FP4? And any other similarly capable tuners? Thanks!
watch the video give it a like and subscribe. then buy a Power Vision or just use your dyno tuners for half the price. Another good reason to buy your own power vision is if your tuner goes out of business. If you have your own pv you own the tune. you can take it anywhere to get your tune updated. I have mine permanently mounted on my Low Rider S to use the gauges.
I have an FP3 on my 13 softail, it has a freedom performance 2 into 1 shorty pipe and the FP3 can’t stop the backfiring (decel pop) I’ve run auto tune a few times and tried all the decel pop settings but every time I cut the throttle it sounds like a gun fight.
Hello,
Question for you but it'll be like asking Ford or Chevy. What tuner would be more efficient: power vision or thunder-max?
The Thunder-Max would be the better option, it's a complete ecm replacement with wide band sensors. You'll need to make sure you're exhaust will accept the larger sensors though, most aftermarkets have plug you can remove for them.
@@GixxerFoo thanks for the input. I'm sure my Rinehart exhaust will be able to use the wide band connectors. Enjoy watching your content👍
Depending on the year you can also go target tune and power vision together as well
I recently purchased a 2020 Harley Heritage 114. It came stock with hi flow air cleaner. I just put on a set of Screaming Eagle Street Cannon Mufflers. They are very close to stock. I haven't added any tuner as of yet however I want to add a Power vision once my warranty is up. Do you think by adding the SE pipes it would have further leaned the bike out at this point without a tuner? I don't want to void my warranty however if you feel the bike may be lean without a tuner I will defer to your judgment and take my chance on the warranty.
Since you went with the Screamin Eagle exhaust l wouldn't be too worried about it. You have the 114 and it was tuned for the high flow air cleaner at the factory, the exhaust you added is pretty close to factory so the fuel trim should take care of the added exhaust flow. If you go with something aftermarket that is wide open and free flowing without the catalytic converter then you'd definently want to tune it. Do you have any decel pop?
@@GixxerFoo Thank you for the response. No I don't have any decel pop. I was thinking of adding the PVCX stock improved but don't want the warranty voided. I wonder if I needed to bring it in for warranty work and shot the stock tune back in if they would be able to tell ?
You can disregard this question. I was just advised by a tech at Fuel Moto that Harley would be able to tell you at one point altered the ECU even if you were to go back to stock. As of about a year ago Harley has obtained a program which will fingerprint the number of times the ecu has been gone into and altered even though a custome tune was fully removed and returned to stock. Oh well...just have to wait until the warranty is up.
@@tonyl8314 Yeah even if you have a good dealer when I bike comes in for service and they hook it up to Digital Technician it sends that data straight to Harley, even they don't have control over that. But you can use the Screamin Eagle Street Tuner with any combination of exhaust. A guy I ride with had our local dealer install a full Rinehart Exhaust on his new Street Glide Special, they tuned it with the street tuner and good to go.
That's exactly it, it doesn't void the entire warranty like a lot of people think. Yeah you don't want to go messing around outside of the canned map if you don't know what you're doing. Just like you said you can see everything that went on with that ECM as far as flashing right down to the date and time lol.
And the word of the day is...: Cumbersome!
Lol after using FP3 the PV is a bit more steps.
I watched your vid on TC103 cams and respect your eval of the Woods TW-222. In this vid you said the fp3 can map SOME cams. Would the TW-222 be on that list?
The TW-222 is on the list of camshafts within the FP3, I really like that since those maps have been developed with that cam in the motor by Vance & Hines. You just flash the map for your exhaust and then go back and select the camshaft. You can add any cam with an Fp3 if it's not the list, you can call V&H or just add some basic information from the cam specs. Auto tune after for you motor and you're good to go.
Will the fp3 work fine if i just have slip ons and a heavy breather
What are your thoughts on SE Smart Tune Pro with Pro Street tuner? Does it compare to Thundermax? What's the benefit/concerns vs FP3 or Power vision? Thanks
The SE Smart Tune works with the Street Tuner and it keeps your bike running at the very lean AFR ratios. The ThunderMax is a much better option for a cooler operation of the engine and more power. ThunderMax is well worth the extra money, if you're looking for going with a wide band sensor setup.
FP3 is very easy to use, l think it's excellent if you plan on doing only exhaust and an air cleaner, adding a cam later on. The FP3 is just as capable as the Power Vision. But there's not a lot of Dyno Tuner support out there. You'll be hard pressed to find a tuner that can tune with an FP3 meaning they haven't or won't invest in the FuelPakPro unit for a Dyno.
Power Vision is the way to going you plan on doing some engine work. Big bore kits, head work, really serious internals. It's much more supported by all the major aftermarket component manufacturers. Being if you buy a big bore kit from S&S, they will email you a tune file for your Power Vision. It's much easier to get tuned on a Duno if you already have the unit.
Did you make it to toriel for people new to Harley-Davidsons that just want to know what the whole system is? Kind of what exactly are they and what do they do? Does Harley-Davidson have to install and set it up? Or is it something that we can do at home for us backyard mechanics
My only heartburn is the EPA agreement with Harley. If you use any tuner other than their screaming eagle tuner they'll void your warranty. So ask me in 5 years when it expires for me.
Yeah that's the kicker, is the warranty. It doesn't necessarily void the entire warranty, if you had a wheel bearing go bad you'd be covered. I took a calculated risk with mine, l have a good dealership that wouldn't give me a hard no just for a tuner. But l agree with you, Harley was targeted by the EPA.
@@GixxerFoo actually as part of their agreement with the EPA if you tune with another tuning product they'll void the engine warranty. I talked to three dealers before my stage 1 and settled for the screaming eagle tuner. I would have preferred to use a power vision but oh well.
They make a power vision 4 for my 2020 sportster 1200. And it shows it as a Bluetooth connection. Is this a similar product to the other power
What’s my options for tuning a bike after installing a 509 cam into an 88” ?
It depends on what year you're bike is, I am assuming it's fuel injected and newer than 2002 with a Delphi EFI. ThunerMax ECM is a great unit to go with, but if not you're really limited to a power commander or getting a dyno shop to do the tune. You might be get it tuned with a TTS and a good canned map but dyno tune is the best.
@@GixxerFoo yea. It’s a 2004. So yes. It’s has the Delphi.
I bought Fp3, it cant be made to work on my 103 stage 3, says Vance and Hines. My cams, compression and heads are out of their range of tune. Waisted money, my buddy ran into the same thing on his electra glide. Dont waist your money like we did.
That's ridiculous, I can't believe they told you that. That's the first I've heard of something like this with the FP3.
Hey there.
I have a 2015 sofail breakout witth 96ci engine + 2x1thunderhead + K&N screaning eagle heavy breather + Fueling Reaper 543 cams.
The tunner in my área is terrible....
Do you think a FP3 would bem able the set up my bike???
Thanks
Breakout from Brazil
Hi Thks for the advises Excellent video
I hope it helped you out, thank you taking the time to check it out!
GixxerFoo yes it did. Just when looking for the proper fuel management. I’m going for the PV now that I’ve watched your video. I was not sure before. Thks again. Ride safe and hello from France.
I just tuned my Dad's Vrod with a Power Vision, it's not as straight forward as the FP3 but it's going to be a lot easier for him to take it to a Dyno Tuner. That bikes just has some decel pop we can't eliminate and it's gonna need some tweaking on a dyno.
GixxerFoo hi there. In France my Harley dealer goes through a dynojet place tuning. At the beginning they told me it was 670€! Now looking at the FP3 which cost 400€ I was hesitating going for the second option. But, I called the dynojet place and they had a special offer for 600€ with a power vision included and of course a fine tune of my bike not just a generic map download. Getting the PV, having my bike fine tuned and your video convinced me. 👍
By the way I have a 2019 breakout FXBRS
what do you think of the Dk fuil enrichment harness? its got a single pot or not that goes to you ecm and is supposed to richen up your fuil ratio.
That's a good low cost alternative to getting some more fuel in the bike, but it doesn't do anything for you're timing and cylinder VE. It will get the fueling better but not the best for overall performance.
@@GixxerFoo yeah i dug into it more and what i was told is that your ecm will just compensate for it. so bad idea
Great explanation!!
Do you have any thoughts on aircleaners with the External Breathing System (no dirty air back into the motor) like the ones DK customs offer for example VS no EBS? According to the DK custom site that would be all the other aircleaners except for 2 other brands.
I just got my XL1200 Roadster and would like to change air intake but I’m not experienced with this subject. Would a K&N filter in stockhousing be pretty much as good as a cleaner with EBS? How serious would the harm be to your engine without EBS?
Really looking forward on some more information on that!
Found you’re other video about it! Great video, keep it up!
If you can route the breather system out of the motor I would do it, DK customs offers one of the technically illegal air cleaners lol. Pretty much all other brands you have to modify them yourself since they are EPA compliant and recirculate the crankcase breather into the motor. I have a Screamin Eagle Heavy Breather and it takes some doing to reroute the crankcase breather to atmosphere. You might look at Hammer Performance's air cleaners, they are setup to vent the crankcase to atmosphere too. The stock air box is very restrictive, even with a K&N filter in the stock air box and it would still be recirculating the crankcase breather into the motor. You'll want something with an open back plate if you want to reuse the stock air cleaner cover. Pretty much either Hammer or DK customs unless you want to modify the air cleaner to vent to atmosphere.
I appreciate it! I've been busy out in the garage working on mine here lately so I have more coming!
GixxerFoo Thanks a lot man! I m’n gonna look into those more. But with those DK and Hammer complete ones, where does the oil go? Will it spill on the bike or clothes/shoes?
GixxerFoo awesome, really appreciating your channel!
Great video 👍
Thanks 👍
I have a 2012 FLD Switchback with stage 1, Screaming Eagle air cleaner and non standard slip on. I plan to change the exhaust and/ or slip on or just remove baffle. Do I then take it to a dyno jet for tuning or what? Can't see point in buying my own tuner as I won't be making any other mods. Thnx
Im leaning 2 the dynojet? Idk?
What about Thundermax ECM?