Former Cult Leader Shares Thoughts on Netflix’s Dancing with the Devil 7M and Miranda Derrick
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- As a former “Cult Leader “ (a.k.a. fundamental evangelical, charismatic Pentecostal pastor) I feel uniquely, equipped and qualified to talk about the popular Netflix Documentary “Dancing for the Devil” and Miranda Derrick. Enjoy!

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I cant believe not a single drop of a coffee didn't come out of that mug
Lmao! Me too after watching it back 😂
I was so focused on that mug. Glad I'm not the only one! ☕
@@shawndamccormick278 I've got Coffee Skills!
😂
Just spilled mine but it was the whole thing, and it spilled all the way down my throat into my tummy.
There’s a Baptist church nearby that a few people I grew up with joined. They all pretty much immediately got married and started having 1 kid after another. I missed them and they said the only time they could see me was at the church service so I went to their bring a friend day. They had a guest priest that day who shamed me for wearing pants (none of these friends have worn pants since going there. Only long skirts with black tights or dresses idk why) and tried to convince me I needed to be rebaptized because I was baptized Roman Catholic and would go to hell. They talked about how men will be confused if women wear pants and will think they’re a man and vice versa. Also said god called him to Boston to save the gays 🌈. Then talked about how a woman’s only job is to provide children. Definitely a wild experience I left shaking. The part that got me was this. He asked raise your hand if you’re a sinner. I was the only person in that room to raise my hand. We all sin that’s a fact of life but they’re so brainwashed they think they’re perfect. I haven’t talked to those friends since that day I have 0 interest in any of that. They’ve always been cult inclined I think. Her mom used to send me home with these kids church books that were very violent and depressing. One was about a kid who sinned and lived on the streets in a box and ended up dying but even though he sinned in the end he chose god and went to heaven and the angels took the battered starved kid.
I'll be doing a video tomorrow sharing more. Thank you so much for sharing. I've got a lot to say about the things that you've mentioned.
God says come as you are. Meaning if you only have pants wear them if you have skirts you can wear that.
I applaud your candor and your transparency. Thank you for stepping forward and letting the world know about high control groups and cults. I am also spiritual. I am a nondenominational Reverend and psychic medium. In my life work I saw abuse of spiritual authority and so many different groups. Is my mission to call those out. I’ve even it was some of my colleagues. I would love to do an interview with you. I’d like to help other people understand the mindset of a cult, leader and high controlled religions for that matter.
Thank you! Feel free to follow me on instagram @timmygibsonkc and message me there, or you can email me: timmyjgibson (at) gmail (dot) com
I’m the same as you. Used to be an evangelical Christian. Still love the Bible teachings but I’m not for organised religion anymore.
It’s sad when people fall for these ‘cults’ but what can I say? I was a born again Christian for years and couldn’t be told otherwise. I couldn’t be unequally yoked with unbelievers and I truly believed everyone not born again was doomed. But the teachings of the Bible is about love but man has taken the Bible out of context to some extent and it’s used for control.
You know when you said I’m truly free…that it right there. I feel truly free to live my life and do the best I can without the weight of ‘falling into sin’. The divine, ‘God’ universe etc is love. God is not a mafia don waiting to punish you.
Omg I love you said it!!!
Same here, grew up Evangelical Christian, struggled with the understanding how one can be taught to speak in tongues and it should be a gift from God, laying of hands and touching me gave me the jitters, and so many other things. I am still a child of God and He is my everything, Bible Study on my own is great. The story of a Miranda resonate with me, as I was also a professional dancer, the church saw this as a sin though. 🙏🏻 from South Africa
Thank you for sharing! ❤
I was going to say admitting being a former cult leader is wild...
but then you said fundie Christianity and totally makes sense lol 😂 (I'm from Texas/the Bible belt)
What did you think of that Carl Lenz scandal. They had all had that hip look and hung around with celebrities. The guy wore no shirt shorts so low it showed everything. His cult kind of have a look like yours, a lot of those new evangelicals do. The cool Christian look. You look nice but you know what I mean.
You are so right! Usually the pastor is a hip, very charismatic person who is entertaining. Very cultish!! Just look at the following some of these guys have, it’s wild. It’s very personality driven.
No, it's 20% to the management company, and 10, 10, 10 are the tithes!!!
Wow!
Mass delusions start with a spark of truth
They say a good lie contains a kernel of truth.
Lets hope and prey that shin guy doesnt have them drink koolaid when this thing falls apart. Remember Jim jones only had his followers commit suicide when it was clear he was going down. It was his final act of control. In my opinion the only way to get her or the rest of the dancers out, is to unsubcribe to all their socail media. Thats how he makes his money they have no value to him without followers.
But how do we get people to unsubscribe all at once?
“You can be sincere - and sincerely wrong” is probably the best thing I’ve ever heard. Such a unique and interesting perspective on this topic. Thank you for this video it was a very knowledgeable watch!
Well thank you so much for that! More to come.
Agreed, that is such a powerful yet simple statement 🫶
PLEASE PLEASE do more videos like this!! It is so refreshing to have someone who has been a leader in something cultish leave and get to now provide perspective on it.
I grew up in a very charismatic church and homeschool-family. Separating from "non-believers" was seen as a necessary part of life. Took YEARS to get the brainwashing out of my head. Studying cults helps me to understand why it has been such a long journey!
Thank you so much! I appreciate the kind words. I will indeed do more videos telling my story.
I grew up the same way. I’m terrified of church now. I’m still a Christian.
I agree. This was the first stumbling on to this channel.
@@massarassa I don't trust church. My experiences left me aware of the hypocrisies . Then came all of the reports about children being harmed by religious leaders. And now the John Paul Miller situation. It is sickening. I believe in God. I also so totally disagree with confession. That's supposed to be between us and God not with a third party.
@@heatherscott9550 I understand. God is good and I’m now an orthodox Christian, I believe in the Bible but I don’t believe in any preacher etc. I just go by the word of God when it is exposited rightly. Context is key. Being a Christian isn’t bad. And That Miller dude should never be a pastor. That’s what’s sad- do much of what is preached is false. This is the state of the world now- and is prophesied in the Bible. 🩷
The liquid in the mug in the beginning is really stressing me out haha 🥴 Very insightful video, totally agree with you. I grew up in an fundamentalist, Calvinist evangelical church and I still wrestle with what is it I believe
Pumpkin Spice! 😂
Lol me too.. i kept thinking Hey that coffee is about to spill on your hand! For some reason he couldn't hear me 😂
@@kaycevictoria9947 yes! 😆
Same! Amazing video, but I had to start just listening because it was very distracting 😂
It's ok to always analyze what you believe because the truth is we won't know until we know
I will be recording another video this week telling more of my story, since you-all have asked. And I will address much of what you've commented on as it relates to my story and my personal views on Evangelical Christianity, specifically of the Pentecostal or Charismatic flavor. I spent my entire life in that movement and finally walked away when I turned 50 (2019). I am now (in 2024) 55. So I've had 5 years to really process it all. Needless to say, I have strong opinions, but they are just that, my personal opinions. I spent the first 20 years of my life as a church member, and then 30 years as the Pastor, or "man of God" aka Cult Leader. More on that this week! Thanks for being interested in my story.
New sub here. I look forward to seeing your future work. Love the plants! Very reminiscent of the living room in the 1970’s
@timmygibsonkc, you are right. It’s the teaching that has twisted her mind-that’s exactly what a cult is. Thank you for clarifying that not all pastors are cult leaders and the group they seem to come out of. I hope you and the people you do reach are able to develop a relationship with Jesus because He’s the One and only. Like you said, He doesn’t pull people away from their families. There’s a difference between boundaries and division but Jesus is Love. It bothers me, as a follower of Christ, that so many cultish groups call themselves Christians. It does make it hard to witness Jesus to others when radical, culty crazy people are just plain nuts. That’s why we Christ followers have to live like Jesus wants us to live. To be gentle with our witness, serving others, worshipping only Him, etc. I’m so thankful that you posted your video. I truly hope you meet Him like I know Him. Thank you for sharing your point of view. ❤
@@horse_chick Of course! Although I am no longer a Christian I have friends who are! Clearly they are the most loving grace filled accepting kind, otherwise they couldn’t be my friend! 😂 I’m thankful they are not a part of that kind of Christian group, because that is also extremely culty! I see it in some of the culty Christians comments on my videos! It’s gross! Unattractive! Arrogant. Moronic. So thank you for being kind and sharing your comments below! Peace!
@@timmygibsonkc peace to you as well. 😊
This was one of the best takes I have seen on the situation. I am thankful to have gotten out of a cultish relationship that was controlled by faith manipulation, shame and guilt. You helped to affirm some things, so thank you.
The best line was “you can be Christian without being weird”… so true.
I really appreciate that!
@@timmygibsonkcChristian cult Leaders come out of fundamentalist etc and then you have cults like SCIENTOLOGY which is a 100% cult. It's all about control. Cult expert ( former Moonie) Dr Steven Hassan developed the B.I.T.E. model. A group is a cult according to the degree in which the group employs Behavior control, Information Control, Thought Control and Emotional Control ( hence B.I.T.E.).
Also any pastor or leader can be a man or woman of God. Because they believe in God and his principles it does not mean they are THE man of god or prophet. not everyone has good intentions just because they are. Religious. Christ accepts all people from any religion as long as they follow his teachings. The invitation thing is way wacky and the biggest ick to me is that the business is run by the “church” which means contributions can be written off or repurposed and the “leader” gets rich by tellling his followers that they have to “bless” the pastor financially. Yuck
He basically controls everything they do one way or another. Thank you for making this video.
How do you know? Because you watched the docuseries? There’s a lot MORE to this than what you saw.
Long story short
@@lulub9421 do tell since you sound informed...
One aspect that got glossed over was when Miranda and her husband inferred that the family was not accepting of her husband for being Black. I wouldn’t normally question something like that… but THE AUDIO of Shiin saying they would “play the race card” was more wild proof that Robert is a master manipulator. Super sick
Yep!
Her sister is married to a black man.
The other sister who is not in a cult just married a black man with her parents approval, so that theory is out the window.
So sick! In the beginning the parents and sister talk about how much her bf (now husband) from the start when they met him. Her sister is also in an interracial marriage I believe. I was astounded for the audio of Shiin’s sermons telling them to use the race card. So manipulative.
@@yesvember11 it’s very sad. That is something real that a lot of couples have to deal with. For him to have warped their minds to the point that they’re throwing grenades at the family… so sad. And for what? ROBERT?!? The guy that’s exploiting you both for your talents and looks. Smh I just pray they get some help. Hopefully the doc will shake them loose.
I went to a church in Novi Michigan that ruined so many lives including my family. I was married to a man who was the step dad to my three daughters. He started really treating us differently. He kept moving out and just leaving. I wanted a divorce because I didn’t want to live like that or my daughters to go thru that. The church members told me I was terrible for wanting a divorce. They said I’m suppose to work it out. They made me think I would go to hell if I left him. I was ready to file divorce that week but stayed. He molested my middle daughter for the next 2 years. It ruined her and all of us. One of my friends there was married to a very abusive man in the church. She filed for divorced and no one would talk to her. I was the only one along with one other. Her husband had the support of the whole church. He kept going and stood by him. He was the good guy and she was bad although he had abused her for years in front of their two sons. During the divorce her husband got rid of everything they owned even the boys fish saying they couldn’t afford them. He destroyed her and the boys. Once the divorce was final her husband went into the woods and killed himself. I could go on and on. God is good but people are evil.
What church was this? I live in Rochester.
@@mifnp8887 DFC on Haggerty Rd in Novi. They changed the name of it a few years ago to try and get rid of the reputation but everyone in the area will never forget.
I'm really surprised that Robert Shin, the cult leader, allows them to watch TV and social media. Banning those things will be the next shoe to drop because that is the reason that his cult has fractured in the way that it has.
That shows his control manipulation
Unless you’re there with the church, you don’t know what’s happening. You’ve only heard from a couple of ex dancers, who have their own agenda and possibly a TH-cam creator who is being sued for defamation and is at risk of losing millions and wants everyone to believe this docuseries to gain public support. Don’t drink the Koolaide. There’s so much more that the docuseries didn’t address or show
It’s how he makes his money though.
Consider not just believing Netflix documentaries;
Consider the creator of this series along with Miranda’s family pitched it to NETFLIX. The creator has been in civil litigation for 2 years with SHINN and The Derricks being sued for defamation. Per open court records it would seem she is going to lose her case big time.
Since they are in civil litigation with this creator, legally not a good idea to be in a documentary of the person you are suing. Knowing this, how unbiased do you think this series is? Why would Netflix knowingly allow a creator to put together a series knowing they are in civil litigation and it would be in the creators favor to defame, discredit, and destroy the people suing her?
It would be super easy to prove that 7M is not a cult. Start managing dancers NOT attending your church!! He has none!!! Thank you for sharing your perspective!
Good point.
Also, I was raised Pentecostal and I was terrified when I saw people rolling on the floor and speaking in tongues. Needless to say I don’t go to church anymore.
Maybe you just need to find a church that feels right for you. It shouldn't be about the people but about your relationship with God. I hope you at least still have that.
Def feel the same 😂👌 I've seen enough "demons casted out" 😂
Yep...& I realize that in my belief now...that wasn't of God.
@@MusicInMotion_67 What do you mean by “at least”? Shouldn’t a personal relationship with God be the most important part of being a Christian? Your comment is so patronizing. Religious trauma is real and like any real trauma, no one should be advised to remain in those same circles and risk being traumatized all over again. I truly wish Christians would be able to acknowledge this and respect people’s choices. Even if that means that they don’t worship like you do or stop worshiping at all. You could’ve at least acknowledged her trauma before you fast forwarded to the victim blaming. Not sensing a lot of godly love in your comment.
@@everrgreen122 wow you read a lot into my comment. You act like only a few have experienced negative experiences within a religious group. I've been traumatized by a Christian church in the past as well, but perhaps the difference is although it hurt, and was humiliating, I realized I wasn't there to please those people who done what they done to me including the pastor who was the primary culprit. I was there to worship God. I left that church and found one that fit me.
However, if someone can't find a church that feels right for them that doesn't have to mean an end to a relationship with Christ. So you shouldn't read into people's comments. Perhaps asking their meaning would benefit you. My point in that comment was even though that person was hurt by human idiot people within the church, hopefully they didn't walk away from their relationship with Christ (which is what it's actually about. Or should be) In my opinion, church, the right church, is to learn the Word of God from a Pastor who understands the Bible which for some can be confusing, and being around like minded people (hopefully not just pretenders). But your eyes have to remain open and if it turns out to be dirty for whatever reason, then you leave and either find another one that fits you and that follows biblical teaching and encourages you to read it for yourself and not just take their word for it. But you shouldn't be there for the people. It should be for God even if that means leaving the church (physical building) and continuing your relationship with Christ outside of a physical building or finding another one that better suites you provided someone is strong enough to do so without falling back into sin.
Love your transparency about your past. But most impressed by acknowledging JESUS❤️
Awe! Thank you!
Amen 🙏🏻
I’m not religious but I appreciated him saying that Jesus is about love, not control and that a legitimate church would teach them to embrace and be close to their family, not cut them off. I’m very interested in hearing more about Timmy’s experience as a cult leader, how he even became a cult leader in the first place, and how he got out of that (as well as how his followers got out of that as well.)
@@yesvember11Keep tuning in, I’ll be telling my story along the way. I just uploaded a video today telling more.
One reason I became I Christian is I saw how anti-establishment Jesus was and He wants to set us free from manipulation. I was raised that Christianity wasn’t relevant. It was Christians that kept me from getting saved for a long time. Then one day, I realized, it was about me and my relationship with God, not about the crazy Christians I knew. Reading the Bible is an amazing way to stay grounded and has helped me navigate. A lot of Christians don’t read the Bible much and don’t really know what it teaches. Putting too much faith in man will mess you up every time! And going out into the world is one of the key tenets of Christianity, not isolation. And manipulating of others is very anti-Christian. Many Christians don’t see that it is the ultimate mistrust in God. Say what you have to say. Do what you gonna do. Then leave it in God’s hands.
@jillcee
Just do no harm and be kind. 👍
That's why we need to find identity in Christ alone and not in church leaders. The Holy spirit then gives us discernment to test what is from Him and what isn't. I also agree that you need to be very careful of prosperity gospel churches and eisegetical teachings, where the message of Jesus is lost.
@@shellbells5504 I have never sought identity with leaders. The big challenge is trying to find community in churches where one is actually welcomed. Some of us never learned how to navigate healthy relationships. If we can’t learn how to in a family, or through church, where does one go to find and learn about connection? God did create us for relationships and not to be lone rangers. Matt 25:31-46 speaks volumes on how Christ views those in need.
@@JillCee 100% agree and there are definitely good churches, grounded in the truth of the Word.
@@shellbells5504 Not many. At least where I live. Church on every corner but took me over 30 years to find a solid church. There are pretty much seeker friendly around here. All copying each other.
It’s like he studied Scientology and he on some of the concepts for his own church and business. So it’s a “church” and not a spiritual cult or business cult. I watched and was trigger because I was married to a narcissist for 17 years- and he reminds me of my ex husband minus the religious aspect, even some of his phrases and the switch from the aggressor to victim , being able to switch a mind from believing the perso. Is being attack to it’s actually that person who is wrong and he is the victim.
5 families had the same story about this cult. Reminds me about my family trying to save my brother from drugs. You can’t help them until they want the help.
Exactly
Konkrete is so admirable in this documentary. He listened to his Soul and ignored the sound of money, fame and glory.
Agreed!
I got the same impression from him.
You should go on the Cults to Consciousness podcast with Shelise to tell your story
Let them know about me!
Yesss!!
Consider not just believing Netflix documentaries;
Consider the creator of this series along with Miranda’s family pitched it to NETFLIX. The creator has been in civil litigation for 2 years with SHINN and The Derricks being sued for defamation. Per open court records it would seem she is going to lose her case big time.
Since they are in civil litigation with this creator, legally not a good idea to be in a documentary of the person you are suing. Knowing this, how unbiased do you think this series is? Why would Netflix knowingly allow a creator to put together a series knowing they are in civil litigation and it would be in the creators favor to defame, discredit, and destroy the people suing her?
Anyone being told not to have contact with their family is the very first red flag, and I’ve heard stories of her crying because she misses them
Exactly
It reminded me of Scientology in a way, besides the fact that she was allowed to visit her family in the documentary. It's not about religion. It's about a relationship with Jesus Christ. He is the exact opposite of every cult out there, and even warns us of these types of people.
I guess they ignore one of the 10 Commandments where we are to “Honor your Father and your Mother”.
When you said you were a Pastor for 30years....I did a double take and asked how old is this dude?!?!?!? 😆
....55!!!
Man 55 looks good. I'm 41. Bring. It. On. 😆
🙌🏾
Thank you! 😂
Timmy, I’m currently in a Pentecostal church here in Australia. I would love to have a chat with you about this topic.. I’m feeling really challenged and need advice from someone outside of my environment.
I know this video is not totally about this topic but it spoke to me, so I apologise that my comment may come across left of field.
Please help.
It’s all good, thank you for commenting! I will do more videos like this knowing people want to hear my story. And of course, we can set up a time to chat.
@@timmygibsonkc Thank you so much for replying Tim.. I would love that. I don’t know if you’re on another platform for contact, but let me know how we can arrange that.
You truly have a beautiful peace within you. I have been fascinated with cults my entire life. I truly hate the dangerous ones. Looking forward to watching your videos.
Thank you so much!
After paying 30% you where made to feel bad because others where giving even more snd you weren’t
Hello. I commented yesterday about the relationship to church, religion, evangelism, Pentecostals, and certain self improvement gurus to cults.
I have not heard anyone else say this:
If Robert Shinn were a true Christian and a true Man of God, he would not allow his company to promote sexual content. I have been a performer all of my life and have recently been born again and baptized as an adult. If you compare my videos 10 years ago to now, I have been changing my dress, my movements, my songs, and my heart to align with the Bible as I learn.
The constumes, the movements, and the theme of the 7M dances are mostly sexually inspired. No pastor worth their clerical salt would be a part of such sexual content.
this is legit babyreindeer syndrom their desire to be famouse was bigger than their need for self-preservation. 😢
They are ashamed of them selves so its hard for them to face the reality. 😢😢
Yes I hadn't thought about that motivation
You're handsome, I'll probably follow you into a cult 😂😂
😂 That’s funny! Thank you for that laugh! 😂
Right??? 😅
Like Scientology or The Kingstons' or Jeffs' mormon sects. It's all the same schitk with these cult leaders. Leave or stray and they'll try to destroy you.
Wow- this is great stuff. I’ve been doing a deep dive into this whole story since seeing the doco and ur unique perspective is bloody fantastic. Thanks man. Subscribed👍🏾
I really appreciate that!
Miranda was one of my favorite dancers. I have given her a thumbs-up more times than I could count. Then I watched the Netflix special, and my jaw dropped. All those dancers I love were in the cult. I feel bad for all of them, but I have decided not to watch their videos or support them in any way because it goes to the cult leader.
Me too! That's whats so weird about it. When I saw the trailer for the Netflix Series I was like, wait a minute, I know that girl! She is a dancer ... couldn't watch it fast enough to see what it all was about. Then after watching I had to say something. :)
It scares me and enrages me that they are "dying to their family". If you have to hate yourself to be a part of a group, you need to run fast and far away
Came out of the same teaching in Australia (Hillsong, the bane of all existence). THANK you for defining what MANY Christians can only EVER see in black and white, in or out... in scales, percentages etc... mindsets. These descriptors are SO helpful for anyone listening who have come out- have family still in or who have family who just find it hard to understand and critically think of anything other than black and white, in or out of the church... that there is SO much variance in christianity, church AND cult like mindsets... but those red flags like separating yourself from non believers @ especially when it's family... those red flag type cult/crowd control tactics are important to see in ANY group.
Your experience is extremely well expressed and MUCH needed. Glad you found peace, sir. Hope to keep hearing any time you want to explain the grey that no one ever talks about.
Thank you so much!
From my understanding, they pay more than 30%. The 10/10/10 is for 10% church, 10% man of God, and 10 % tithing. Then 10 % or more to 7m management, which is ran by Roberts wife and another probably 10% to Roberts son as their videographer, 2200 (probably each) a month to Robert for rent in one of his homes and shamed to give even more. They are all so talented, but they are being robbed by this family. Then taxes, so they basically only see about 30% of their income., so sad. I hope they see what is happening soon.
They could hire
All those fees are before tax. Does 7m pay their taxes? And even then they take control of the 30%. They even had to ask permission to buy shoes. They were left with $200-$300 per week when they brought in deals of tens of thousands.
They also pay the videographer, rent, etc.
They said it was 20% management fee, which is pretty standard. So yeah, these kids are getting nowhere for their financial future.
Each make over 100,000 miranda probably more.. I'm sad she did great videos with her sister. I wish they'd get out and do stuff with her sister again🎉❤
It’s actually 50% of their income the cult is taking! 20% management fee to 7m, then 30% to the cult leader (10+10+10 for “Jesus).
We don’t know anything about her husband
You’re looking fantastic. Wouldn’t have guessed you were in your 50s
We need more videos like this from you and people like you. So many people give up their spiritual sovereignty to someone or something else, and I think a series of lectures of your experiences and cult behavior in general would be so helpful. Thank you for this video!
Thank you! I appreciate that. More to come.
The funny thing is, is her sister has more followers than she does and her sister is not in the cult.
New subscriber! Would love more content on this topic from you. I grew up in a pentecostal/evangelical AOG church that I am still recovering from to this day. Even went to the "factory" (bible school) to become a youth pastor and walked away agnostic after my experience which was VERY hard and nearly impossible if not for the support of my now husband. Love how you said the red letters in the book are dope bc I still believe this and try my best to be a good person, but once I saw people"drunk in the spirit" or for all the times I was upset/disappointed in myself for not sharing the same divine experiences and I always felt like me speaking in tongues was forced, I had to say goodbye. Just wanna say how HEALING it is to hear from the mouth of a former pastor that it was in fact a load of bull and that I was not actually the crazy one. I'll be looking out for your future videos on this topic. It can be very healing for those of us who walked away. Curious how you still keep some of those relationships without feeling judged (or in my case feeling weird conversing when I know I'm on the top of their intercessory prayer list lol). I miss my church friends but once you leave, you're no longer part of the club.
I hear ya! I started as a Youth Pastor in the Assembly of God church, then on to Senior Pastor of a Non-Denominational church. Bro, I feel ya! I will talk more about my story in tomorrow’s video. Stay tuned!
They are def in a cult. Look up Dr. Hassan’s B.I.T.E. model.
@@Hopeynay agreed!
Shekinah isn’t a silly name for a church… in the Old Testament a/the shekinah was considered Gods “dwelling place” or “the temple of God”… It was a physical place of worship. Shekinah is also the feminine aspect of God.
They were not controlling those people, heavily influencing but not controlling..
I think she just likes the fame and money and house so that's why she stays. If she left she would lose that and have to start again.
It can’t be that simple. Her family is wealthy and she and her sister were successful before she joined. I don’t think she’s being physically or sexually abused (I hope not) so I think she just being prideful at this point like embarrassed to admit she made a mistake choosing Robert over her family.
Thank you.. miranda was reading from a script..it wasn't her words.
But attacking her telling her she is in a cult will not do anything other than cementing her in that cult. Deeper and deeper. She /they wouldn't know that they have been brainwashed. Their brains rewired..I don't have answers.but attacking her isn't the answer imo
I hope she watches this🤞
Me too! ❤
I really appreciate you adding your voice to this conversation. I grew up in the Bible Belt-small town Arkansas so I could relate to a lot of things you brought up.
The thing is, when measuring the degree of intensity of any particular cult we need to consider they evolve over time to become more & more controlled by the leadership. Heaven’s Gate started out as a hippie new age open-ended type of meet-up, and only ended up killing themselves to “go to the spaceship” after years of progressing along a timeline of abuse & control. So this cult may progress to a doomsday scenario over time, just as some of the apocalyptic Evangelical groups might. The focus on Revelations & end times could easily become a self-fulfilling “prophecy” under the direction of a very narcissistic leader.
When you don't know what God's word says people like Shinn can prey on people. I just pray that the remaining members get out. It's truly sad.
The part that got me was all the money they are giving him between the percentage of the management and then yes most people pay their tithes to the church but they were taking about 3 different ones
I truly appreciate you for this video. I grew up in a religious cult with my entire family, and breaking away was terribly hard but once you realize their true nature, you see the manipulation. Hopefully, she sees this video and wakes up. Considering you're the unbiased person involved, you too could see that this is so clearly spiritual manipulation.
Thank you so much for your kind words! 😊
@@timmygibsonkcreally appreciate you putting perspective on this as someone who has been immersed in it!
Also sidenote: I would gladly watch a series of you breaking down religious cults, Like the Shiny Happy People doc about the Duggar family.
Mind bending.. you can dance for the Lord and not be super sexual.. thats robert shinn fruit and dance nowadays and appeal most dance group seem to push this. I do baton twirling to christian music and I strive to dress more modest for the girls etc. To show more talent than skin..
If you are looking for how your channel can grow, make MORE videos like this. Commenting on cult topics as they appear in popular view “as a former cult leader” 🎉
Thank you! Will do.
I love your plants, great share of perspective.
@@whatta1501 Thank you! That’s all my wife, she has a green thumb!
In my opinion, as a former evangelical, all of conservative evangelicalism is a cult. There's no legitimate or acceptable way to leave the religion. You're either in or you're out, and being out is the same as self induced death in the eyes of most evangelical cults.
If you are in a group that tells you that everyone needs to join in order to live, and if you don't join you're going to suffer eternal torture, you are in a cult. In my opinion.
If there's no legitimate way to leave and still be fully accepted by everyone in your former group, you're in a cult. It's a cult. It just is.
"If there's no legitimate way to leave and still be fully accepted.... it's a cult" ❤️
Grew up in it and left it... I became a psychedelic hippy after I left and I was shocked that the people I knew on drugs were more "normal" than a lot of charismatic religious people I grew up with. Never saw anybody on shrooms or weed ever start speaking in made up languages (tongues) and convulse on the floor at the same time lmao. It's scary tbh
@@tarah.1648 As a pothead who grew up in evangelicalism, I have to agree lol
Damn, I grew up sort of on the fringes of pentecostalism and that stuff was so scary. It's literally like they're not allowed to take drugs, so they induce hysteria themselves and it makes me hurt for the kids so much. I know folks who were told they'd go to hell if they didn't speak in tongues. It just breaks my heart to know folks go through that.
“I was a cult leader,” “TRUST ME!”
I know, right?
😂
Oxymoron 🤦♀️
Red flag for a cult is also when they act like “only they have the answer” not any other church, just them lol
Please put that cup down. I can’t hear a word you are saying just waiting for you to spill it. Driving me crazy.
@@angiesaunders5594 lmao!
When a spiritual leader starts mixing business, professional, his personal likes, loves, needs, wants, and puts his own brand on and over God, Jesus, the bible, etc. and comes up with his own man made, alternative beliefs, spiritual beliefs, religions, and forces them on others, and brain washes them and adversely affects them that's a Conflict of Interest, and signs of a controlling, dangerous, harmful, cult leader.
I saw the Netflix documentary , Dancing with the Devil, and found it very credible, facrual, transparent, as fair, neutral, and impartial as possible, considering on the ex Robert Shinn, pastor, rep, the dancers and church members participated in the docuseries.
What made the proof credible and tangible was they actually recorded Shinn and played what he said and did, so it comes directly from the source, him. This pastor and agent doesn't, WALK THE SPIRITUAL WALK AND TALK THE SPIRITUAL TALK AS A CHRISTIAN. AND DOESNT MANAGE PROFESSIIONALLY AS A TALENT REP.
They showed the contracts and Non Disclosure Agreements, (NDA's), Shinn had them sign as dancers he repped and church members.
On a pro level, Agents, Managers, etc. receive 15 % commission from the paid work they find you, and you agree to do. That's the industry standard. Shinn wants 10 % to rep dancers. And, 10 % to the man, him. And, more to help other church members and who else Shinn warrants. There is no valid, man fee. Helping someone is voluntary, not mandatory.
The standard church tithe is 10 %, its in the bible. It's not mandatory, its suggested by God.
As far as only being allowed to attend a church you're invited to, something wrong is going on behind, closed doors, and likely you're hiding it from church members as well. Every credible, place of worship is open to the public. Some, places of worship are member based, but their still open to the public. There are places of worship out there preferring members who are of the same belief system and faith, but they follow universal, laws of the creator and usually apply them equally, but their usually not cults. An example are Jewish synagogues.
All, credible, alternative, religious, and spiritual belief systems, have some commonalities in that most have one creator, and that creator is caring, loving, protective, universal, and theres one, universal, set of laws for all believers, and followers. And the intent is to help, not harm someone.
Thete is no valid reason to brainwaah, control, and isolate a church member from anyone unless they are under the influence of someone and thing, natural and supernatural, trying to harm them or they can harm someone, and themself.
All the main participants in the Netflix docuseries were attending church members and/or dancers repped by Shinn, over years, at different times, and didn't know each other at first, and most reported the same adverse experiences and treatments under Shinn once they had Good Cause to discover who else might have been victimized and then brought Class Action lawsuits against Shinn..
This matter belongs with the church who can investigate Shinn and remove his pastor credentials, and close the church down.
And for law enforcement, investigators, the DA office to investigate, civil and criminal wrong doing. And if so, the victims to lawyer up,, and take legal action through the courts.
As for all church members and dancers, their all potential, victims and need a great therapist.
I remember being at a bible study and this guy was like " I quit my job in car sales cause my co-workers were too "worldly." I asked him "WTF does that even mean?"
Apparently, they were drinking alochol and acting like 20 somethings act.... then he was just like... job-less. lol
I came from conservative Christian community in southern Appalachia… I feel some of the ways you do; I didn’t necessarily reject the good ideas of Christianity, I rejected the people running the churches and their corruption and the constant threat of HELL.
7M is a cult. Not "cultish" LOL. At least some got out.
I’m sure they are under a contract and can’t just leave and find another management company! As far career goes! I think anyone outside of it works with them is only adding to his control bs. It’s sad all of them are so talented & so smart but yet so naive! 😢
I first saw Miranda in a video with Vikk White and the only thing that made me think that there was something strange about the entire situation was that they were always being recorded at a very exclusive location where the home owner was obviously a person who had lots of money.
Also the dancers were all very young, athletic and well dressed.
@@nanaman true true!
The documentary was only one sided because 7m and the dancers refused to speak in it. They were given the opportunity and declined.
Not true some of the ex members did speak out. So u wanna say they are lying?
Edit: some did even speak out who have been sexually assaulted and abused. I mean what u need more?
So they should've damn spoke! What are you even talking about?? Furthermore, some did speak out, so hush!
Are you being so defensive of the so called silence because you are part of this situation or were you paid to stir up doubt? You are failing,.
Did you not watch the second and third episodes? Probably not since you made that statement. Watch the rest of it. Also I feel you are either equally brainwashed or you are making a check for this.
@heatherscott9550 Your comment sounds more like you are being defensive. I can tell that the documentary stuck a chord with you. As it did for myself as well. So I understand why you feel the need to defend your position. The original commenter sounds like they also agree that this is a cult. They were saying that the dancers still affiliated with 7m were given the opportunity to say their side of the story, and that they did not take the chance. So I don't see how the accusation that this commenter is "defending" the cult is being proposed. You may want to reread the original comment.
Perhaps I’m jaded, but 7m seems like a giant con as its primary focus seems to be making money..the church is the perfect cover to exploit and manipulate young talent and not having to pay taxes on the profit.
Loved your insight and perspective on the topic though.. thank you!
I was raised Catholic till my parents divorce then I was Lutheran as a young adult I church shopped and checked out various denominations, I have settled on Agnostic. Truth in Religion part 1-3 is an excellent TH-cam series.
I grew up with it. People don't realize what's really going on. I was exposed to a lot of different groups, different denominations, etc.
Now, I don't like organized religion. I know too much.
I went to this charismatic camp once. I kpet debating with them that visions or surlsing stuff which was hapening was just coincidence and not from God. I find it impossible to debate cha nge the minds of them as they belive do passionate about it. Even if you point obvious stuff out to those types of people your just talking to a wall
I was raised in a pentecostal church. My parents got out when i was 11 years old. He tried to instill in us the cult shit until i was 15 years old with no church. My dad has trouble getting out of that cult mindset to this day. Its wierd shit man.
Money, it all boils down money. Miranda knows that the ,"cult" wants their financial cut and contol. BUT her family also wants some control over her contracts and money too!
That's it she's probably afraid leaving will destroy her career
Do we truly trust her parents?
Why do you think that her family does, is it based on facts or your opinion?
@@SoLongMarianne_ her parents trained and raised them to be in show & dance career etc. And Miranda said herself that her sister and family signed them up for brand deals without consulting her first.
@@swantisefell7476 not one bit!!!
“I think the teachings of Jesus are dope” lmao this along with Pentecostal background leads me to believe you never walked into the deeper end of the pool concerning religion….so to speak
How is this one sided when x members are speaking out. They were in it for years.
True dat!
Only a 5 or 6 for cutting family/friend ties and monetary and sexual coercion? If that's only a 5 or 6, it jumps up to 10 real quick.
So true!
In Truth- all there is- is God. “I am.” Religion spreads the lie that we are separate from God and need to be Good to please him. When God is all there is, who is the pleaser and who is the pleased? It’s not that God doesn’t exist. It’s that the “believer” doesn’t. That’s scary to look at for this ego who believes it’s going to heaven one day. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Im a hippie..i believe in Jesus teaching but not the man made religion. Jesuss teaching are just common sense really..Peace and Love to all
I am a Christian I was not most my life but I had a pretty wild experience on my own. I was by myself when it happened. Anyway this is what I have gathered after careful study of the various christain groups to look out for: #1 no Grace. In the Christain religion you are saved by believing in Jesus period. Romans goes over this in detail. #2 Dress codes. If you all have to dress the same thats a huge sign
#3 changing of main line doctrines so you have to know what those are. For example saying that you have to be baptized in Jesus name only that would be a diavation from main teaching
#4 everyone calls each other brother or sister so and so
#5 saying other christains that aren't them aren't saved.
#6 any twisting around of scriptures to make it as though women are under their husbands which would literally mean they are less than allowing for terrible abuse of women. There are a few verses they use way out of context for this one.
Always read whole chapters and books bc I have noticed these groups take like one or two verses and make whole crazy concepts out of them.
The Bible will define itself and you don't need another person interpreting it for you like they are the only one who can. Anyway I know most people aren't christains that would read this but maybe it will help someone.
Shim’s a sham.
You saying the teachings of Jesus are dope is hilarious lol....but in all seriousness i was part of a Pentecostal ministry in college when I gave my life to Jesus and was baptized...it bordered on the line of cult behavior and I got out of there and started to deconstruct but I am still a Christian and in the faith at a church that stands on the truth that is the Bible.
I feel like the whole thing is a scam and Miranda and James are getting scammed and are clueless about it.
I really do believe that they have been manipulated and in a way brainwashed. I know for me that was true.
@@timmygibsonkc
Maybe you could make some more videos on exactly this 7M cult!
I'm so afraid especially Raino is being "punished" by Robert/the cult leader because he didn't complete the "job" in keeping them (his parents) out of the documentary.
All his profiles everywhere has been deleted/removed, TikTok and Instagram instantly after the documentary and latest (yesterday) TH-cam!
Miranda had another rather huge channel on TH-cam that was deleted last summer...!!!
Maybe you know something about what is going on now, seems Raino is "paying" the biggest price right now.
Vic and Bdash's families was approach and invited to take part of the documentary, but declined (lucky for Vic and Bdash I guess) and Miranda in a way for being Bdash's wife and for most likely already have been punished....
It's complicated, but I'm really worried and feel so bad for Raino (have also heard he's being talked bad to, his mom has stated recently that she knows Robert has said he's not that a good of a dancer!!!
He's one of the best and most creative so it makes no sense!
This was a very good explanation and authentic take on the whole thing and thank you for that, but please think about making some more 😔
I like your plants!
16:05 thats all based on your interpretation of scripture though. like for instance some protestants may interpret it differently than a presbyterian.
Oh my gosh , you are so right!!!!❤I hope she sees your video!!!
Loon
Did you quit cold turkey or was it a slow realization? You make more sense than anyone I’ve heard on this situation.
Thank you so much! I will do a video explaining my journey.
7M is a separate entity from Shekinah church. Saying anything church related to 7M might get you slapped with a defamation lawsuit. There’s already one associated with this docuseries. I’m sure Shinn wouldn’t have a problem with filing for another. Also. The 7M group didn’t participate because they are in an active defamation lawsuit with an extremely problematic person who contributed to the docuseries. In fact, the person has even said that the docuseries will make the case “go away”. If you know all the backstory, you know that this production was created with the intent of misleading viewers. Judging by the comments here, it worked for a lot of people.
Remember! 7M is NOT Shekineh church. They’re separate entities! What might apply to the church doesn’t apply to the management business. And even if you don’t like cults, they’re not illegal. Everyone involved in 7M is an adult and it’s their choice….
Jesus Christ is soooo much more than how you described...I hope you come to know The Word, know the Savior of the world. I pray for you, time is very short. He is returning soon.
I appreciate the comment, and you are entitled to your own thoughts, ideas and perspectives, but I don't see it like that at all. Jesus is never returning.
@@timmygibsonkc We'll agree to disagree. I have no doubts. The god of this world has blinded and deafened you . Good luck with your channel. Isaiah 55:11
@@yanifree114 Deal!
@@timmygibsonkc Cult leader, charlatan, narcissist.. Selling a portrait of yourself online for $499.00 ?
10% to Man of God, 10% to tithing, 10% to offering. I don't know how tithing and offering are different, but anyway, the management fee is 20%, which is separate from the 30% to the church.
I'm glad that you are ripping Shyster Shinn to shreds. His pathological selfishness has inflicted so much pain on others. I was afraid that you were going to be a bit too ...kind to him. It's fascinating to hear you speak as a former leader of a coercive "church" - thanks for the perspective. Given the experience of the Lee sisters, I'd put the Shinn cult higher on the destructive cult scale, myself - bumping up on 7.
Thank you so much! I appreciate the encouragement!
You should be at Robert Shinns trial and help lock the POS up !!!
Well im glad you came to term w your narcissistic tendencies. Good for you. Religion is the problem. CHURCHES are the problem. Belief is one thing. But if you aren't able to question ALL THINGS, then theres an issue. The creator gave you free will and intelligence for a reason. People dont utilize it too much anymore.
True!
So interesting to have this perspective from someone who was once on that side of the pulpit. I hope Miranda, James (her hubs), and the other members hear your voice of reason one day. Miranda’s fam too. Seems evident from all the testimony that Miranda had a very good/close relationship with her family, until James came into the picture and lured her into Robert’s group. Robert keeps them all in his grasps using this paralyzing fear of hell, which is why leave their families. So that their loved ones don’t go to hell, members have to “die” to them and cut them out, in order to see them again in the afterlife and save them. It’s so twisted. Robert has ruined these families lives.
Thank you so much! I just uploaded a video telling more of my story. ❤
What a great take on this! Please consider making another video, but beginning with more welcoming points to people. For example, “As a former minister, who is still spiritual, I know Jesus would never coerce, or try to convince people, but would welcome, and would not humiliate anyone in front of a large group of people, and take pleasure in it. He would not feel as though, if they didn’t do this, that or the other then he would not be in their lives . He would not reject people because they didn’t follow him. He wouldn’t discourage other people from hanging out with other people just because they don’t act in certain ways. Jesus and God allow autonomy because of love and respect, real love and respect.” By starting off with saying how she’s been hoodwinked, I worry that the people who really need this message Will feel insulted and turn it off immediately. That’s why I approach people with love and respect first. I appreciate your video though.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.